Kind of! OCAL Electronic Collimator
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- Today we test the OCAL Electronic Collimator on my SCT - because unfortunately I don't have a user-collimatable Newtonian telescope!
THANK YOU to Astronomical Solutions Company for sending me this unit! If you're in the area, you should have a look :)
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I really appreciate the demo Cuiv. We've very recently started selling these at the retailor I work for and I feel you've given me a good primer for when customers ask me about the OCAL. I also really like that you touched upon the effect that thumb screws have on collimation. Always good to do a final check on an actual star with the eyepiece you're using. Threaded connection for imaging this looks perfect : )
Thanks for the feedback! Glad this video is useful!
This OCAL collimator has been the only tool that helped me to achieve perfect collimation for my Sharpstar 150 f2.8 HNT after trying many, tested by a 4.8 μm pixel apsc sensor and a 2.4 μm pixel 1-inch sensor.
I've been using one of these for a few months and it is great in centering/aligning the secondary on a 10" Newt, especially after removing it for a clean. Great video as usual !
Hi, many thanks for featuring us on your video :) Top notch content from you as always
My pleasure, good luck with your business!
Hi Cuiv, I have read many posts on CN about this collimator and although many have appreciated it (especially Newtonian users) others have not been satisfied with SC telescopes. In particular, the tests carried out on SC showed good results in collimation with the OCAL which, however, did not reflect that on the star during the Star test. I was very undecided whether to take this accessory and today I decided to buy it based on your evaluation. I hope I can make the collimation easier not so much because this is particularly complicated in the SC but because I can prepare the telescope before the night comes and implement only minimal corrections in the field. We hope well.
Cuiv, great introductory video!
I've been using an OCAL standard version for several months now, and use it to collimate my 8 inch GSO Classical Cassegrain, which is, like an RC, notorious for the difficulty of collimation.
I've compared it with the Farpoint Scientific cheshire eyepiece and the Howie Glatter laser collimator. What I've found out was that if the OCAL collimator is not threaded directly to the focuser as in a refractor+flattener imaging train, there's always going to be some errors introduced by the angle of how the OCAL is held or inserted. This becomes quite apparent when you take it on and off in succession without changing anything and just by doing that, you can see that the collimation seen by OCAL varies quite a lot, sometimes very close to the traditional laser or cheshire, sometimes quite off. Of course, the laser and the cheshire could suffer from the same problem though, so I don't believe any of these methods are perfect, only use them for 'close' collimation and rely on final tweaks on stars to perfect it with my imaging train fully loaded.
Thanks! Yes, completely agree - threaded is simply better for repeatability!
I have also been using this to collimate a 10" newt, much better than a laser. I did a full collimation of the secondary that had been completely removed from the spider, it took a few minutes. Perfect round stars!
I purchased the Ocal collimator for my newtonian a couple of months ago. I found it to be somewhat helpful, but only to a certain degree. You need to visually judge whether the circles are exactly aligned with the mirrors, and at some point you couldn't get more precise and it's still a little bit of guess work. I much prefer using laser or cheshire collimator. To me it's like one more option to confirm my collimation. But then again, I suck at collimating my scopes. By the way, a laser collimator is quite easy to collimate itself using a Newtonian telescope. Insert it to a Newtonian and turn it. Look at the primary mirror to see if it goes in a circle. Make adjustments to the laser until it stays on one point.
Thanks for all those tips! Absolutely right! My go-to method for Newts has been Cheshire and Barlowed laser, and that has always worked quite well for me
I feel like this is a very useful tool for preliminary collimation only. There may be some issues that aren't addressed. For instance, the fit of the camera barrel in the focuser draw tube, the collimation of the camera itself and whether or not it can be collimated, the fact that it has only one camera,(as opposed to the Catseye Black Cat XLR autocollimator, which has an offset pupil from the center collimation peep hole.) The success and accuracy of the Black Cat autocollimator is the fact that it has two peep holes which shows the slightest misscollimation in the focuser axis and the secondary mirror to the primary center spot. When collimating fast Newtonian astrographs or other reflector telescopes with F ratios below f/4 the slightest misscollimation results in image degradation and the sweet spot is mere millimeters or even fractions of millimeters when using a coma corrector such as the one I use, Paracor Type ll by Televue. Many people have difficulty not knowing that the collimation tolerance goes down exponentially when adding the necessary coma corrector. Catseye collimator sets are still the most accurate way to collimate as far as I can tell. This tool could replace, perhaps, the Cheshire eyepiece at best but further collimation for imaging with reflectors but further adjustments will almost certainly be needed. You have to remember that the autocollimators mirrored surface adds several more reflections that show the slightest deviations from optimal focuser axis, to secondary mirror axis, to primary mirror center spot. Assuming of course your primary mirror is accurately center spotted. It bears noting that Catseye collimation kits come with center spot templates and triangle or "hot spot" radiation symbol center spot stickers. Or can be added separately. Catseye collimation website states that many primary mirrors come from the factory with center spots slightly off center, sometimes. Not a problem with SCT's of course but getting the focuser axis properly aligned would be an issue with SCT's. A poorly placed center spot could cause a lot of frustration when collimating a fast reflector. Perhaps the company should consider creating an offset camera and a mirrored surface to increase this products usefulness. If they don't someone else will eventually, I'm sure.
Cuiv! I have some amazing news to share with you! I just collimated my HyperStar 6v4 with the Ocal! People are trying to do star collimation but the mirror flops (SCT) and you loose it! Well if you align with the baffle tube by leaving the SCT thread open over covering it with a reducer to prevent dust from entering but allowing light to enter, you can get PERFECT HYPERSTAR COLLIMATION! Give it a try! I haven't been able to do a star test yet but I use flowers in my back yard to do doughnut test and my doughnut are now perfectly round. My images are razor sharp. Mirror flop is taken out of the equation!
OK The Ocal EC worked great for collimating the secondary mirror. Not so good for Hyperstar! I ended up with comet starts LOL. I figure out that if get almost to focus, to the point where I barely see the center obstruction at the middle of the star, I noticed I can collimate and move the center obstruction to the middle. I keep doing this until the star is so much in focus I cant see the little dot anymore. Now you are done, perfect round stars in and out of focus in and out!
Salut Cuiv
Le numéro de série a insérer est un chiffre qui indique au logiciel quel est le pixel central du capteur par rapport au corps de la caméra. En effet, il faut que le capteur lui même soit collimaté par rapport à la caméra, sinon cela n'a aucun sens. Donc en usine, ils testent chaque camera et définissent alors le pixel central, qui permet de s'affranchir des petites erreurs de centrage du capteur par rapport au corps de l'appareil. Ainsi le logiciel sait sur quel pixel il faut centrer les cerclés, pour que toute la chaîne soit collimatée.
Great video, Cuiv! I have a C6 with Hyperstar, and replacing the plate behind the secondary mirror threw my scope drastically out of collimation. I use Hyperstar exclusively now, and am having a great time with it, but I think this is the kind of simple, "good enough" daytime collimation solution that will be ideal the next time I want to use my C6 for visual observing and/or planetary imaging.
Yes the fear of that happening is the reason why I didn't replace the plate!! But this would definitely help you get it back in the right ballpark
Cuiv- I got a F3.9 Newtonian and I have 4 different tools for it.
- A laser, which I checked for its own collimation and seems to be spot on.
- A short cheshire- I don't trust this one.
- A long Cheshire- This feels like a perfect tool
- Collimator cap - I feel this only gives a rough alignment.
Sometimes I go through 3 of those (I don't use the short Cheshire anymore) and I still say the same thing you say here at 17:17 😄 and I can pretty sure guarantee you that anyone who owns a fast Newtonian says the same thing.
Oh yes, I know the pain! Try a barlowed laser too, it should be resistant to tilt!
The focus number adjusts the center offset. The Ocal worked well for close colimation only, not really fine colimation.
The beard is back...looking good
Hey Cuiv! - very cool video on an interesting little device, great job man! :-D
I was looking at these as an option when recently I needed to buy better collimation tools, I did opt to go another route in the end but it looks like these work well for sure!
Hey Man - I've been having some issues with stars in a corner of my Newt. I've just splurged on a new 2inch Farpoint collimation kit as my laser was out and even though I think I've corrected it my stars are still wonky in some areas. Hopefully I've not just wasted $ on it. Just curious what you went for?
Hey Cuiv, Huge fan of the channel. I'm new to astrophotography and you've made things a lot easier, so thank you. I wanted to know if you ended up ever trying the Ocal Electronic Collimator with the hyperstar. I'm struggling to get my Hyperstar in focus and it's producing some very odd star shapes, so looking at this tool as something which might help? Thanks!
Thank you for posting this. I installed Bob’s Knobs on my EdgeHD and I swear I still don’t think I’ve got it correctly collimated. Maybe this will help.
I hope it can, good luck!
I bought this product for my Quattro 200p f4. It is very nice collimator. I love it
Excellent to hear!
great timing on this one. I just recently heard of this device, and hadn't done any research. thx
Excellent demo. I have been looking for a better way to collimate my SCT. Very useful.
Great review Cuiv. I have recently read a lot about the Ocal collimator. It seems to work for those who have used, specially for SCT’s. I have edge SCT’s telescopes that I have collimated for planetary imaging. This Ocal collimator could be a game changer. I would like to know if it works with RC telescopes. The manufacturer’s website indicate it does. Still, I would like to know if this collimator works with RC’s telescopes. Thank you very much for doing this and assisting the vendor in Oman.
Clear skies.
Thanks for that feedback! It seems some have used it on RCs but I can't say... I've never owned an RC because collimation scared me!
For those struggling to collimate f/3.9 astrographs, I have had very good and headache-free results by combining the barlowed laser method and a tri-bahtinov mask. The mask really helps me fine tune after the barlowed laser method which itself gets me quite close to collimated. Hope this helps someone!
Excellent advice, thank you!
hi
Thank you for testing ocal, thank you.
Much thanks for the review! Good job!
oh my, I just have bought it from them last week. It will arrive on monday :O can't wait to collimate my SCT
Awesome Abdullah, I hope it works well for you!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek thank you!
That app on Windows makes me nostalgic for XP-era WinAmp
Hahahaha I totally get that!
Hi Cuiv, what a coincidence, I bought it from Artesky - Agena Astro end last week; a pitty you couldn't demonstrate it with your Vixen (that's a newtonian, no?). I'm really having great expectations to finally being able to collimate my Orion8 F/3.8 and that it will render all my other collimation tools obsolete.
g.
Nice Geert! I just had my R200SS back from repair and I really don't want to mess with it! Here the user is not supposed to collimate it.
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Lucky you :)
Excellent info. Thank you for your effort.
All right Cuiv, I just ordered one these things based on your recommendation - it better work! It's OK if it doesn't, but it looks pretty good to me. Actually I was looking into the HoTech thing but was not liking it because it looks like it would not be saving me time and be more of a headache and $500 for something that may not work does not sound like a good investment. I know a couple people who purchased them and were never able to get them to work. I bought a cheap artificial star and it sort of works bought it was not as simple as appears. The OCAL seems like the right tool for the right price. - Cheers Kurt
Hahaha fingers crossed that it works! Yeah, the HoTech laser always intrigued me, but it really is so expensive and looked quite hard to use!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek It is supposed to arrive in late January. I'll make a follow-up video after I have chance to use it to see if it works for me. - Cheers
Very cool! I have experimented with a little CS lens on the front of a guide camera to do something similar on an RC. I didn't have the awesome looking software with the adjustable circles and cross hairs though. That would have helped a lot.
I'd hate to drag this all out to collimate my Dobsonian every time I use it though. For that I use a laser and a Barlowed target. Much easier.
Use SharpCap and turn on crosshair in it. :) Maybe this helps. That is how i collimate my Newtonian and my SCT. ZWO camera in the rear, pointing into the sky at day, enable crosshair etc. -> collimate it
Hey Cuiv, I love watching your video, but, if I could just give one piece of advice, it would be to try to find some audio equipment to improve the quality of your videos. Sometimes I have trouble hearing you talk when playing at 100% volume on my laptop if I'm not in a quiet environment. Also, in this video for instance, there's a lot of ambient sound.
Not a big issue, but when I'm watching a few CZcams videos in a row, yours always appears to be super quiet comparatively.
Got it, I will work on that, thank you!
Juste pour info plus aucun lien ne marchent dans la description.
Le seul qui marche c est celui vers le site ASC mais les prix sont en OMR 😵💫
High point scientific est out
Opt y a pas le produit
Amazon indisponible.
Voilà je t'ai fait le résumé au meilleur de mes connaissances du moment.
J'adore ton taff merci pour les bons moments que tu me fais passer pendant mes soirées astro.
excellent Cuiv, i am looking at ordering one of these 8)
Any recommendation for guide scope for light polluted skies? Asi120mm and ZWO 30mm guide scope struggling to get enough stars in similar skies to Tokyo.
I would recommend a sensor with lower noise, maybe asi290mm mini as every little bit helps when skies are bad. I image from Muscat and it can be pretty bright here
Bit late to the party but maybe you'll see this. why would not the same astro camera I use be usable to do the same job? Put the flat field panel in front of it and go? i just got a 180mm mak so won't need to do this often but i have an 8"sct that generally is soft. Also can such a method be used on a refractor? I have a 6" meade AR6 that gave me one of the best images of mars in 2003 ever. I have not used it since so likely needs a tweak. want to try is as a mono rig. As always great info and thank you.
If you have a reducer, filter wheel, etc in your optical chain, where would this camera go? Should I remove the entire chain (even the reducer) and place it right out of the scope with adapters?
This worked to start with, but now the circles are up in the top left of the screen. I gave up, and simply aligned the mirrors by simply looking at the screen Result? Much quicker - the camera inside my RC 6" makes all the difference, so just ignore the red, blue rings.
Cuiv, did you keep the Ocal 3 collimator? You now have a 200mm newtonian. Also, before you put the diagonal in, what did you use to be able to bring the collimator camera to focus? Are you saying in the case of astrophotography setups, the collimator should be put in place of the astro camera so that collimation is accurate at the end of the imaging train?
It wasn't the OCAL 3 but the very first version - I do use it with my 150mm (not 200mm) Newt and it's a life saver. Sorry I don't recall everything I did in that video so can't answer the second part...
Cuiv, how does the Ocal collimator compare to your tri-Bahtinov mask that enables you to collimate through the entire imaging train?
cant we not just use any camera for this with enough resolution and use firecaptures crosshairs for example? or al´s colli tool overlay?
Thank you!
Nice tutorial mate! I think this Ocal really takes away the guess work when collimating visually on a star! Very little room for error. My only gripe with this product it’s way too overpriced!!!
It's pretty expensive yeah...
This is really good news. I would like to give this a shot on my Celestron C8 using it with and without my Hyperstar. Has anybody tried this using a Hyperstar?
I’d like to see this tested with HyperStar. The crux would be getting the camera distance correct.
Will watch it all later but yo a top man and keep up to good work yo.
Thank you!
Great Video, Appreciate it. You made it easier to understand. I ordered one a couple of weeks ago for use with my Edge & SCT. Hoping it will work with my RC. Anything that make collimating easier is always great, Call me one of the Lazy ones LOL
Yes, let's be lazy!! :D
I've seen these in the UK good piece of kit but I'm sure some software using an astro cam would work just as well as most of us have one lying around.
I was thinking the same, but you would need to add some kind of lens so you can focus on the mirror, the lens would have to be adjustable to work with different telescopes.
@@ASC-Explore I hadn't thought of that yeah that makes sense.
Interesting product! How would it work on a Hyperstar? I mean, you're going to put a camera on the Hyperstar anyway, so does the software work with other cameras as well?
The software wouldn't work on other cameras - you need a lens to focus on the primary/secondary mirror, etc.
Thanks!
Great video as always!, I just buy to collimate my 8HD, i have the hyperstar v4 to and is not very collimate! i will give a try :) , i hope this Collimator helps with hyperstar ...
Interesting video for sure! I'm curious to know if something like this would work for a RASA. If so, I'm definitely going to purchase one because collimating those on stars is extremely painful.
@13:53 Oops, didn't catch this part in the video before I commented. Thanks again 😁
My android pro version is in chinese and freezes if I stop. Have to restart the ipad...
What will they think of next....cool vid.
Cuiv I am sorry I touched on a sensitive subject. But as always thanks for this! One more lottery ticket.
Thanks a lot!
Nice demo Cuiv, thank you. I assume this tool only works for stc/Newtonian and not for rc scopes?
Never mind it works with RC as well
This OCAL makes me think of Al's collimation aid combined with a DSLR or ZWO or .... which would be cheaper if you already have a camera no?
Well, you'd need the ZWO or DSLR camera to be able to focus on the secondary/primary (for a Newt), so you'd need an additional lens - not sure if that would work...
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Ah yes,I was thinking only about an SCT...
Great video and great idea as always! Would really be interested to see this device used for RASA 8 collimation - would this be the solution to get the RASA in perfect imaging condition? (Assuming on has no sensor tilt on his camera….)
Thank you! Yeah, I'm afraid to touch my hyperstar for now but I'll feature it if I do!
I guess there is no Osx software for it yet?
Hey Cuiv ! If there is a camera in the Ocal, isn't it possible to do this straight from the imaging camera ? Like a 533mc ?
I don't think you would be able to focus an Astro camera on the secondary, also, I think the ocal has been measured to give you the exact center. That's why you lookup the serial number for your camera.
That's my understanding. I have one en route and haven't used it yet.
Great demonstration video. How about using this for an RC? (Strictly for Astrophotography) can it help for aligning the primary and Focuser?
Same question I have.
Some people on the CN threads linked in the description have done so
@@CuivTheLazyGeek thank you, I just ordered it for my RC.
I'm thinking about picking up the goldfocus system for a small newt anybody have any comments in that regard?
Could you collimate a refractor with it?
No I don't think so...
Sorry, I kindly remind you that the centering offset function is wrong. It is not used to align with the center of the collimator. You can check it again. czcams.com/video/eLse7z3Vvj8/video.html
Hi,
This work for collimating a RASA/Hyperstar system where a normal cheshire or laser collimator don't work?
Greetings.
Not sure! I haven't tried yet.
@@CuivTheLazyGeek If you test it, let me know it!
Greetings.
J'en ai commandé un et pas reçu le bon model
Cuiv, what happened to your big newtonian ?
Just back from repair - but it's not user-collimatable, so can't use the tool with that!
Im confused about the re-collimation. Isnt it more important to collimate straight forward without diagonal etc? No matter what accessoires are added afterwards. I always thought the primary vs secondary must be aligned. After inserting a tilted eyepiece you cant tilt the primary with it. Or am I wrong?
It's really nice to colllimate a newt. I have successfully done this on my R200SS. BTW: Where is your R200SS?
Just back from repair! Here we're not supposed to collimate it ourselves, so I'm not touching it :)
Have you tried it with your r200ss?
No - it's just back from repair and I don't want to mess with it! Users in Japan aren't supposed to mess with R200SS collimation
Hi Cuiv, great tutorial!! I have an old Meade Schmidt Newtonian SN-8 that i have never collimated. Would this device work. I do have knurled knobs to collimate on the ota. Thanks
I have never owned a Schmidt Newt, but I believe it would work with that...
I own a Meade SN-6. It collimates just like a classic Newtonian. There shouldn't be any issues since the corrector plate ought to be well centered and the primary is spherical.
I think it's time for you to get a fast newt...😏
I already do - but it's not user-collimatable!
Love your videos Cuiv!
regarding other collimation tools and methods - I actually made a video of where I compare a Laser collimator (Hotech), howie glatter barlowed laser and the Cats eye system.
I agree with using a chesire is very good, but in comparison with the catseye system (for newtonians) there is no one getting even close.... not even howie glatter.
(the video can be found here: czcams.com/video/ERF33hNVieQ/video.html )
/Daniel
Thank you! Interesting comparison video!
First like wooooohoooooo!!!
Woohoo, thank you!
Unfortunately, this isn't collimation. This is centering of the optics. The mirrors would have to be ground perfectly, the best mirror ever made for centering to be collimation!!! You are collimating when you are using the light rays from a star working on your telescope mirrors. Then and only then are you collimating based against how that magnified star appears on your CCD. It no wonder that so many people struggle with this simple process with companys marketing products like this! Learn to collimate because I guarantee that you spend $200 on this and your stars will still look crap.
There's so much I wanted to answer but then I realized it wouldn't be worth my time...
Nice! What would it take to make this work on a Hyperstar SCT system?
Thank you lazy geek I will subscribe