Does a Curveball Really Curve?
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- čas přidán 9. 09. 2024
- The "break" in a curveball that fools some batters is a visual illusion, says professor Zhong-Lin Lu, William M. Keck Chair in Cognitive Neuroscience and Professor of Psychology and Biomedical Engineering at USC Dornsife College of Letters, Arts and Sciences.
"Curveballs do curve," Lu says, but in a conversation with USC Pitching Coach Tom House, he explains why a perception of a sudden drop or other change in trajectory is a trick of the eye.
His study was published in the scientific journal PLoS ONE.
To read the whole story, visit: uscnews.usc.edu....
The USC Dornsife College of Letters, Arts and Sciences is the academic core of the University of Southern California in the heart of Los Angeles. Learn more at www.dornsife.usc.edu
Video by Mira Zimet and Zane Fried.
not only does the curve ball move with respect to the Magnus effect, so also do the various fast balls also demonstrate this fact. the dynamics of rotation with respect to the position of the seams in that rotation, as well as the direction of the rotation itself has everything to do with how it will move. whereas a lack of rotation is critical even for such knuckleball pitchers as Wakefield to be successful.
A curveball is like a topspin in tennis or table tennis. A ball that has a topspin creates a high pressure area on top of the ball and a low pressure area on the bottom of the ball. That's what makes a ball have that downward motion. Just observe how tennis balls go over the net and suddenly sink down to the ground. Its not an optical illusion. Just basic aerodynamics.
God forbid they set up the camera directly in back of the catcher and video in slow motion.
I've seen a ball heading straight at someones head wind up in the glove in the strike zone. I'd say it curved.
There are a lot of studies on the spinning of a ball giving an optical illusion in the peripheral vision, but that doesn't mean it doesn't break. That's like saying the cheese on a Big Mac is fattening therefore the grease must not be the fattening part.
The prof. says that curve balls do curve but It's the late "break" or sudden change in trajectory that is the illusion. This makes sense from a physics perspective: Newton's first Law of Motion: "The velocity of a body remains constant unless the body is acted upon by an external force". The only external force acting on the ball is gravity and that's uniform. Gravity won't make it suddenly drop or break.
@partofthepuzzle There are aerodynamic forces on the ball. Reference Kutta-Joukowski theorem. The rotating ball in the air, which is a fluid, causes lift in a direction perpendicular to the balls direction. Lift, the same force that allows airplanes to fly, also creates the curve in a curveball.
Talk, talk, talk. This is a poor investigation if they don't place the camera above the path of the ball.
you have to read the description to understand. a curveball does break, but it travels in a smooth path. There is not a sudden break
These college coaches are one of the biggest factors in the increase in TJ surgeries.
"Stand behind a tree 60 feet away, and I'll whomp you with an optical illusion!" - Dizzy Dean, St. Louis Cardinals
...a "short circuit" occurs where the brain briefly loses track not only of the ball but of time as well. Thus, when the batter "finds" the ball again, the brain doesn't realize that time has passed making it appear as though the ball has moved more than it should.
A curveball does curve.. he's saying that while the ball is traveling toward the catcher, batters take their eye off it temporarily (not focusing directly on the ball)... then reacquire it and their brains adjust to the new trajectory. I'd disagree and theorize that as the curveball travels toward the catcher, its trajectory changes downward and this change puts the new trajectory in a path of less wind resistance, so it curves more "steeply" the farther it goes.
Why are they talking to a psychology professor? Any professor of physics or mechanical engineering could explain why the ball curves more sharply (yes, it does) as it approaches the plate.
They're not saying that it doesn't break, only that the amount of break is spread out equally over the full flight of the pitch (which is true.) The sudden sharp break the batter often sees as the ball nears the plate is an optical illusion caused by a "glitch" in how the brain determines where the ball should be at any given moment. Basically, if the ball is in the batter's peripheral vision as it nears the plate and then moves into their central vision...continued
"Stand behind a tree 60 feet away, and I'll whomp you with an optical illusion!" - Dizzy Dean
That is pretty awesome, I never would have immagined that.
That is Tom House who coached both Nolan Ryan and a bit or more Rand Johnson. I am a bit surprised at this, but maybe I need to look into this. I could almost swear a slider changes trajectory and a curve is a parabola.
I agree. I will that up.
please dont tell me that what you got and attempted to understand from this video, was that a curve ball and a fast ball have the same flight trajectory, and that a curve ball is an optical illusion...
great point.
Its still wrong. The magnus force on the curveball only accounts for part of the movement. The majority of the downward movement is from gravity, and falling object accelerate at 9.8 m/s^2. If you draw a line about 30 feet from the pitcher, you have an approximate centerline (with two halves). The curveball will fall twice as much in second half than in the first half... even more so if there is an arc to it.
The background music makes it hard to hear what they are saying.
How come on TV when they use a pitch tracking computer it shows a curve and arch? Is the computer also being fooled?
you are watching TV in 2 dimensions. The ball is curving from the time it leaves the pitchers hand. However the curve is not as noticeable until it gets closer to the batter
What Is The Magnus Force?
Explain this then........Why can I see the ball curve when watching a baseball game on TV? The ball is on camera in the center of the TV and never enters the peripherals
does that apply in soccer when a freeckick curves around the wall of defenders and into the goal?
@Songediter2000 Curve balls are easier to demonstrate in soccer when you actually curve the ball around an obstacle.
what about a cutter? a good one doesnt break until 3/4 of the way to the plate.
yes a cureball cures becuase when u throw it how come the cathcer has to more his glove in the direction the ball is spinning i it wasnt it would just drop slightly (depending on how fast u throw it) and why are u doing it from a batters prospective the catchers the one who sees the ball comingand finaly physics prove it does from the spin and the aerodynamics of the ball
the spin makes it look like it curve
If they're saying that a curve DOES curve, but we perceive it different at high speeds as opposed to slowed down using a camera... that's not that special. Anything will look different when slowed down with enough frames. Change the video title as well. WTF is with calling it "Does a curve really curve" if the answer is still yes!?
@sergeantbreinholt Is a fast ball really 95 mph.
does it curve?!?!?!? uh when it starts out one place it ends up in another try looking at it from the pitchers veiw it curves ALOT!!
Huh? How would this guy explain people actually taking a blitzball and throwing curves all Iover the ace?
Is a base really base?
on any angle a curveball moves
And he is a coach?
@DontGetOwned8D does a change up really change?
"Now I know why hitting is difficult"
Look at Justin Verlander's curve than tell me more reasons
no maybe like does a 4seam stay still
Well, this could be true, or, it could just actually curve differently like any other projectile with a different spin on it.
What's next? Does a knuckleball really move?
What the hell is this guy talking about? I love it when people who have never thrown a baseball come around and tell you stuff like this.
It is quite obvious that curveballs do curve. I think some confusing things to notice is:
1) Many deviate lateral direction the first couple feet (just out of the hand) and then fly relatively straight
2) Most will drop as they get towards the batter due to lack of lift from the underspin you see in a FB.
They take a radically different path than a FB. Duh
The dumbest thing about this is if Clayton Kershaw ball isn't curving y didn't it hit DA batter
Is a catcher really a catcher?
Don't curveballs curve due to the Magnus effect?
That's funny how people are commenting ''Are humans really humans?"Is a catcher really a catcher?"Is a glove really a glove?" You guys are awesome for being smart ass good work
I filmed my curveball in slow motion and it obviously curved. It's not even that special, either.' It drops significantly more in the latter half of its journey than it does in the first half.
Is this planet really a planet?
so if it starts up and ends up down it didnt curve... itsjust how when you see pigs fly they dont really walk they fly daa i see what you meen now
Is a glove really a glove?
I throw a 12 6 o boy frickin moves
@MrMaggotforlife13
i take it your a catcher?
thats right it dosent curve
So the curveball doesnt really curve?
it dosent curve, it just goes straight down
been catcher for the sunville tigers, beleve me, curveballs do curve !!!
does a turtle turt?
no you enter an alternate Earth in the DCs Multiverse
Go up to bat against a guy with a great curveball and tell me it doesn't curve.
Prove It.
(Not to be rude and all )
They talking about how a curveball breaks and its a opitical illusion There talking non-sense
Maybe these people still wondering if a curveball curves should get behind the plate and try to catch one. There, you're dead center with the ball, so there's none of this peripheral BS excuse. And yes, it does curve. Have a pitcher show you a fastball. Then have him show you a curveball. There's a huge difference. It's not as though we see a fastball as a curveball as well--due to some BS peripheral phenomenon. Anyone still asking this question needs to get out of their cave.
Did someone understand what the asian guy said? I was staring at him and didn't understood a single word!
Buy a blitzball and have a professional baseball player throw it, let's see if this professor has the same opinion
Oh, so Kershaw's curve is an illusion? I don't think so !!!
do alligators alligate
ni le salia la maldita curva
Shoulde baseball be called baseball?
A curveball that is as bad as that one won't curve
Are humans realy humans?
yeah no that's not how baseball works.
this makes no sense
Come on Tom. Dont agree with this guy
This. Is. Bullshit.
this is so full of crap
This is so stupid