Napoleon's heir - the death of the Prince Imperial
Vložit
- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- In this video, I look at the death of Louis Napoleon, the Prince Imperial of France during the Anglo-Zulu War of 1879.
Who was he? Why was he fighting with the British and who was to blame?
If you are interested in the Zulu War, then please sign up for my mailing list to receive my free book on the subject: www.redcoathistory.com
If you are very generous, you can also buy me a coffee and help support the channel via ko-fi.com/redc...
Well done Christian. Great as always. Tricky business with the Prince Imperial. No rank yet with the British victorian era's class system/officers being gentlemen, it was an accident waiting to happen. Rank or not, his pedigree in those days would have made any type of control by others difficult. By that I mean those officers that lacked a "Sir" or "Lord" before their name.
Sad ending for Louis. I must say (as a U.S. combat Marine of the Vietnam War) the Prince showed remarkable lack of military sense. Out in enemy territory, not occupying high ground as possible and clearance for observation purposes, no LP's sufficiently out for warning and preparation purposes and then when in retreat abandoning high ground for the bottom of a ravine. I am surprised at these mistakes.
I have been in circumstances where a subordinate believed themselves equal or superior to my acknowledged superior rank. I had a discreet meeting with them thoroughly explaining our duties, pecking order with the admonishment failure to recognize and perform as requested would result in a bad result for them. I had no further dust up from them. Nuff said.
I do thoroughly enjoy your vlog and look forward to more episodes.
Thanks, mate. Always appreciate your experience and input.
It became plain from the evidence that Carey, who, unlike the Prince was a Commissioned officer in the British Army, was allowing the Prince to command the patrol. They dismounted in a abandoned Zulu kraal for coffee, posted no sentries and were ambushed, as one might expect. The Prince and two troopers and the Zulu guide were killed, after as gallant defence as one may expect from men fighting for their lives. Carey rode off with the other four survivors, but instead of rallying his men and perhaps firing a useless volley or two at the Zulu, rode straight back to camp, where he ran into the extremely personally brave Redvers Buller (who had recently won a VC for repeatedly saving wounded and unhorsed men from the Zulu) who told him, he should be shot for leaving the Prince. Carey narrowly won his Court of Enquiry, but insisted on pestering the Princes mother that he was not to blame because the Prince was in Command. Eventually she released some of his letters and Carey's fellow British officers sent him to Coventry for the rest of his relatively short life
Carey's 'crime' was not really cowardice, but allowing the Prince to command in the first place and not placing a single sentry, followed by failing to rally his men, after the first surprise of the ambush, and then pestering a grieving mother for a absolution he did not really deserve and that she certainly was not going to give him.
@@99IronDuke Mr Duke! - welcome back, Sir!
@@99IronDuke Absolutely. Carey was in a very difficult position, especially given the prince's impetuosity and seeming immaturity. And once again the British class structure is evident with Carey relinquishing command to one of his 'betters'.
@@alonsocushing2263 Not true. Carey came from a family that included at least one fairly well known and successful Royal Navy officer, he had no reason to defer to any Frenchman.
@@99IronDuke And yet he did.
It looks like a classic case of Europeans underestimating a tribal enemy. A bit like Custer, albeit he was American. A rest-break in an area offering no visibility and posting no sentries is just criminal negligence. Once some of the men were mounted I don't think it was necessary to gallop back to camp, they could have stood-off and possibly harassed their attackers and possibly recovered the bodies. Good story well-told.
Nope, almost nothing whatever to do with that.
@@99IronDuke From your certainty I can only assume you were an eye-witness. What an asset you could be to modern historians.
@@trailingarm63 The Custer analogy would be to the earlier full-scale battle at Isandhwana, rather than this skirmish, of course!
@@paulmckearney4945 I see where you're coming from, Paul, but I wasn't thinking about the size of the action. I was thinking about the "first world" mentality of assumed superiority and have nothing to fear from dark-skinnned men running about in loincloths. Such arrogance has led to the premature demise of individuals and armies.
@@trailingarm63 Indeed
The reason that Prince Harry was so protected in Afghanistan was because no Army commander wanted another royal soldier to lose his life the way that the Prince Imperial lost his. The Prince Imperial was the only child of the exiled Empress Eugenie, a close friend of Queen Victoria. No one envied the Army officer who had to explain to royalty how a young prince was killed. The Prince Imperial, like Prince Harry, did not want a staff position that would have kept him far from the battle line. Because of his military heritage, the Prince Imperial was eager to gain battlefield glory.
CS Lewis wrote an essay called 'The Inner Ring', about this, based on the scene in 'War and Peace' where a purple-faced general has to wait for a prince and a lower officer to finish their conversation before taking his turn. A common social situation.
I know the scene in War and Peace that you're referring to. Didn't realize CS Lewis wrote about it.
Wonderful story-telling - well done!
As usual, well done Christian. I must say the Prince Imperial, from a familial standpoint, had a tough, if not impossible act to follow. You see it in his somewhat desperate acts seeking glory. In a way, I feel sorry for him, because no matter what he achieved, it simply would not be enough. Death on the field of battle was probably the easiest solution.
Chelmsford was quite a royal snake, how he was able to successfully deflect blame after this and that pesky larger faux pas prior, while being recalled and replaced prior to this incident. For contemporary Red Coat history it's dangerous to separate the historical class and caste system with military history or to embellish certain players who had an arguably evil role in history.
Considering we had invaded Zululand without any provocation (a bit like Russia in the Ukraine now) I find it a bit hard to sympathise with Prince Louis. If Louis was in effective command of the patrol as he seems to have been it doesn't say much for the training at Woolwich if they rested without any sentries out. Also considering how useless the Prince's father seems to have been was it such a bad thing that he didn't go on to rule France?
As a SSGT in the American Marines, had this young man been put in my charge, he would have had been at my elbow the entire time. Since he had no rank that I would have had to worry about, he wouldn't even sneeze without my permission. But that is the basic difference between the Military serving a royal house at that point in history and the American Military. He definitely wouldn't be allowed to wander about on his own without direct supervision. The officer who was in charge of him was caught between the proverbial rock and the hard spot. I would not have wanted to be in his shoes for love nor money. Sad tragic event for both of them.
Scouting means you have to see the enemy. Which means they can potentially see you as well. 6 escorts is not really a strong force. To me it seems they didn't really protect him.
As said in the video There was meant to be more but they were late
Amazing, very interesting to learn about Napoleon's sword as well.
Another great post thanks. I'm not sure I'll ever manage a trip to South Africa (I would love to see the country and the battlefields) but I'd certainly recommend you as a guide to anyone I know is going there. I'm sure you'd run first class tours! :)
Some say Louis horse was too tall for him and his trousers were too tight preventing him mounting . Excellent video as usual 👏
Thanks, Peter!
Frenchman on his high horse... Stereotype 🤣
Hence why you have to adopt to the enviornment - change to shorts, or something warmer in Russia or other northern countries
Adapting to your enemy and their tactics is crucial
Thank you for this informative video.
ETW & NTW General’s bodyguards could protect better than that party.
Good stuff Christian. Well told. Have been a few times to the spot. Difficult to find but managed to punch co ords into GPS so easy now. As said well done. Rgds andy.
Very interesting
What an amazing story I've never heard of before, excellent video!
Hello Christian, great video mate , very interesting, I hope you and your family are well, all the best, Lee.
Cheers, Lee!
I have a new board game out called “Horns of the Buffalo” 12 scenarios of the Zulu war publisher is Blue Panther
Great story well told!
Thanks, Martin.
Nice job with the tour guide gig. Visitors are in for a treat I'm sure
Great stuff!
I’m glad you were responsive to feedback and reduced this video to 15mins. Hope you become a Victorian era military CZcams channel!
Hey Christian .
Just echoing the appreciation others are giving you .
Well told and we'll researched .
Thank you .
Thanks, Luke - that means a lot.
Been waiting for this one
Hope it was worth the wait...
@@redcoathistory 100% I actually watched it twice in the first hour of its upload
Great narration, just the right amount of urgency and sourced referenced materials
Interesting footnote to the history of the Zulu War. Excellent short treatment. Thank you Christian. ✌
Thanks!
Great story! Well told. Thank you! Regards from Canada
Really interesting video. Thank you. Greetings from Brecon.
Outstanding episode. Thank you!
Thanks, David.
Very informative!
Brilliant stuff!....Bonaparte really ballse'd that up.
Excellent as always.
Very interesting! Thank you!
You are doing a very good job every time.
Thanks a lot! Glad you liked it.
Amazing history! Love your presentation!!
Thanks Walter
Again, another fascinating story, I wondered what happened to the last Napoleon. Now I know. Unless there is some Napoleon relatives left, thou I doubt it.
A very interesting story!
Fascinating, thanks
I love your channel. Reckless, the Prince Imperial was a little too eager to be a hero which ultimately got him killed.
Interesting fun fact: Louis's father Napoleon III was not actually related biologically to Napoleon himself, he was actually the son of one of Josephine's sisters (i cannot recall correctly atm tho), but he used that connection to legitimize his ascent to power after the fallout of the Bourbon dynasty (not the first time a Napoleon pulled that off btw).
Well he was the son of Napoleon's brother and Josephine's daughter (yeah Napoleon made one of his brothers marry his wife's daughter 😂)
@@adrien437 Ah yes that's right. He married his family off to army generals and royals for personal gain and growth of his dynasty, although it didn't always work out in the long run.
Really, no way Sherlock 😱
Hi Chris just watched your latest video on the Prince Imperial. Before i watched it i found some of other writers accounts a little boring but yet again you come up trumps. You make it a very exiting story. Carey was the only man from what later became our local regiment The 2nd. North Staffs Regiment so that did not do us much good. When i was last there i saw several Zulu huts close to the grave are they still there. I bought a little wooden fruit bowl from a local Zulu family who were living there. I still have it. You must be making a lot of new Zulu War converts. A very well put over account of the event. Well done .. Ken Ray
Thanks, Ken. What a lovely compliment - very much appreciated.
Excellent, Chris. You do have to feel for Carey, though I can't help but feel that he should have asserted his authority, or at least his knowledge based on his training, to post a couple of sentries and ensure the party was not surprised.
100 percent Paul. Hope you are well mate and we must speak soon.
@@redcoathistory Always happy to have a chat, Chris. Send me a note when you've got the time and we can organize something.
Sorry for being a "Kraut", but congs for your channel. Very inspiring and much more than only well done...
Thx for your historical heart, because I can feel it in the movie above.
Chapeau!!!
P.S.: Does there exists a german translation?
You are very welcome. I have quite a few videos about the 5/60th rifles on my channel who were mainly German so I hope you will enjoy them.
I've watched several videos now, and I've learned that the Zulus would open up their enemies' stomachs to "let their spirits out". Was this a good thing (letting their spirits travel out, upwards) or was it intended to be bad (the spirit should remain with the body)? Very interested in this Zulu phenomenon.
My understanding is that It was thought that the spirit would haunt the person who killed them.
@@redcoathistory Ohh, wow very interesting. Thanks for the reply!
@@SkunkyBrew When a person dies sometimes there is a pressure buildup inside the body. Creating a tiny explosion. Similar to what happens with dead whales that wash up on beaches. Many believe this is the source of the Zulu superstition that the soul exists the body through the stomach after death. The Zulu puncture the bellies of dead bodies after they have died in battle so that the soul can be released. Not to do so could result in the killer being haunted.
Your channel is superb!!
Thanks, Brother - appreciate that.
Carey was an ineffective officer who didn't follow basic procedures to protect his men, regardless of Louis the whatever. Many mistakes were made, but ultimately Louis shouldn't have been playing dress up soldier in a war zone to begin with.
He wasnt playing at dress up, the dude literally went to school for it. Its like saying a newly commission officer is just playing at soldier
@@alfredvazquez5380 Not a soldier, not in any army = dress up.
I wonder what would have happened had Louis not died there, if the Brits would have pressed his claim in France maybe?
he was pretty badass to fight the zulu, a true warrior. I only wish he had prevailed.
Errmmm, I see it as more foolish and hot headed then badass, after all it’s not good if it actually works.
I wonder where the sword is?
He was not fighting for the British. He was fighting for Louie
“Poor Little LouLou, has been killed by the Zulu.” A contemporary ditty.
awsome video,
dankie mfowethu!
@@redcoathistory the way I’m ashamed that I haven’t been to these sites, where our forefathers sacrificed everything, where we became what we are today….I will go, I have to…..ngibonga kakhulu mfowethu
Very interesting and well presented,but I was a little amused at the apology made to any Zulu viewers for any mispronounced native words whilst no apology was made for continually confusing 'th' for 'v' in the english vernacular.
Touche! It's a fair cop gov'nor.
Why didn't England have the Gatilling gun! And the use of cannisters ,and multable lead shot rounds!!?? Even chopped up horse shoes!!? Nails!!! Anyways, that's my opinion! Use the artillery like big shot guns!!!
This was a small cavalry patrol.
I'd have told the beloved Prince Imperial to sit his sotwork'd arse down and wait for the proper issue. LOL.
Thanks for the action post.
He was Prince Imperial. He did out rank everyone there.
technically not true im afraid.
@redcoathistory his ease of command and bravery in death would suggest otherwise....
@@angelogarcia2189 having a strong personality and a big name is not the same as being a commissioned officer. All the best and I hope you enjoy the other videos.
Another Lt. Dan! Throw in Lord Chelmsford commanding still after Isandlwana and you have enough ingredients for more FUBAR!
There is another Napoleon that fought in the sea iirc
Maybe the people with posh degrees understand things that others don't...
Hats off on the Zulu name pronunciation. Takes some effort!
Thanks mate - still learning but I'm a lot more confident now.
Napoleon Bonaparte was not a royal blood.. he grabbed the French crown and declared himself king..
We’re all aware…
“NICE PEOPLE ARE THE BRITS”
IRONY ?
No look out posts . Tell me I'm dreaming .
Conventient.
He did not die fighting for the Brits
How so Terry?
He did
Get your facts right he was not fighting for th British
OK Terry - feel free to watch the video and point out where my facts are wrong 🧐
He was u freak, ur another one of those people who probably hates the Brits and can’t stand the fact one of napoleons relatives fought for the British.
"Pukka Royalty"? THE BONAPARTES?!????!?!!?!?!?!!!!
Nice people the BRITS ?? until you get on the wrong side of them..Lols😂
I hate this half-digested 'history'. The lad was given special permission to accompany the British in Zululand on the absolute understanding that he was to GO NOWHERE NEAR ANY FIGHTING. He was assigned a minder for that purpose (who later shot himself due to the disgrace of the Prince being killed which was literally nothing to do with him) but the Prince relentlessly insisted on accompanying a patrol and they finally relented. He got unlucky however. Some parallels with the hopeless turncoat and narcissist Prince Harry methinks. Louis was meant to be an accomplished horseman but ended up getting tangled in his own stirrups on fleeing the Zulu skirmishers who butchered him. An hopeless and arrogant Frenchman. He was subsequently repatriated in a box to Chislehurst where his mother was residing in exile. As for 'fighting', he didn't do any and was only present in SA on strict instructions that he was to be kept away from any danger whatsoever.
Feel free to watch and enjoy the film 👍🏼