The No. 1 Reason Why Trigger Points (and Pain) Keep Coming Back
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- In this video I'm going to share with you a little known cause of chronic pain that could just be the No. 1 reason why people get pain that comes - and doesn't go away.
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chronic pain has made me very depressed. I'm still capable of working normally but I don't do anything else because of the pain which causes fatigue. for me it has.
I am a family physician and I see so many patients with trigger point disabling pain. I am going to apply it in my clinic . I am suffering from same kind of pain in my upper back too.
I had 3 back surgeries L4-S1. 2 surgeries included fusion. My biggest 2 problems are sitting hurts a lot, and both feet hurt a lot from ankle down. Both feet burn like I’m putting them in an oven, especially nighttime. Also right foot feels like people have r trying to rip it out of the socket. I have to sleep or sit on ice and can only sleep on a recliner, and be nocked out with sleeping medicine. I go to Pt for 9 years . Had Accupuncture, epidural shots, dry needles, shots even in ankles. I’m not diabetic or prediabetic. My A1C is fine as well as all B levels. They keep blaming scar tissue, arthritis, neuropathy, poly neuropathy, but no one can help . I can feel when I sit like tailbone pressing , as I sit. They did a mri on coccyx, showing severe orthopedic. I got all these excuses., but one helps. A month ago I even did a second stimulator, but no relief. I saw an orthopedic Dr, who said he couldn’t help. I’m exhausted and depressed over this. I tried everything under the sun
I'm a massage therapist and found this video very very useful! I'm subscribing to your channel.
I got an upper traps triggers, I'm 25 & I'm chronically in love with the gym. I'm a medical undergraduate studying in 5th year of mbbs. from the past few days I came to know that trigger point resolution is not a permanent thing, it comes again & again. i have to live with it, Frankly speaking this is so frightening for someone of my age & passion (gym) to hear. i have consulted a physiotherapist but deep down i know it's life long & I have to deal with it... currently i have taken rest from gym but i don't know how long would i keep myself away from gym.
the bottom line is... despite being a doctor i lost my Youth, my energy & my life to a single fuckin issue that is not ready to leave me ever after 😭😭😭
This is one of the best explanations of chronic pain I've seen. I have chronic trigger points it does relieve tension when they are treated with stim, needles, massage, etc. however they return after a few minutes or if I'm lucky a couple of hours. you mentioned once they trigger points were treated that we should treat the underlying problem? finding the underlying problem is the most difficult thing you said yourself an MRI can't reveal the source of the pain. I have about 10 disc herniations from my neck to my lower back, some witth spinal cord compression and stenosis in other areas. I've been told find numerous surgeons, I am not a candidate for surgery. I have had epidural steroid injections, myofascial massage, traction, medical massage, stim, laser, Prolotherapy, platelet rich plasma or PRP, numerous types of acupuncture with heat stim, suction, etc. some of these treatments make it worse and if you do have some minimal effects that are extremely short lasting. I ask you this Doctor, how do you treat someone like me? Someone who is aware of the trigger points, has treated them effectively but could not prevent them from coming back because the underlying problems cannot be treated or helped.
Brother try dry needling..it has worked very well for me
This is the BEST information I've seen ever!!!! I've been living with chronic pain for years and so far found NOONE with anywhere even close to the knowledge seen in your videos! It's a true halleluja moment for me!!! Just a shame I live so far away. .
I just wanted to drop a note here and say THANK YOU for sharing all this educational information about pain and trigger points.
Doctor what you are talking is great and eye opening.
I am so thankful to have known this.
But this is incredibly beautiful all what you said. I would love to see your next video, an all what you said makes sense to me, its like i have been sleeping till now about this secret of my own body.
Thanks for all your videos. They have been the most helpful.
Can you go over mental fatigue and brain fog?
I just found this video it was published in 2014 everything you’re saying is so true and you say it so subtle but the message is profound. I am not a doctor but I have been a massage therapist for years what you’re saying about triggerpoints is absolutely unequivocally correct. I treated people working on their trigger points. My true education came when I worked on my own triggerpoints . To my surprise they came back chronically in my legs because I’m standing on my legs all the time or in my traps or in my arms from working on clients. I stopped working as a massage therapist after about 10 years and it took me almost 10 years to dissolve triggerpoints in my legs but I finally did because they continually came back until I guess you send a signal back to the brain that there’s no need to come back again is what I’m thinking. I never heard anyone express triggerpoints the way you have an a lightbulb came on.
Have you ever tried dry needling. 10 years of chronic reoccuring trigger points sounds impossible to fix by just massage
I find your pod-casts very enlightening! I am floating between continents these days and spending much time in bike training and yoga. Having been a mechanic since the 80s i find the symbioses of computer electrical problems often occur as a result of a mechanical failure due to 'poor maintenance'... How interesting!!
Thank you. I will look at your other videos. Started treating my main trigger points (gluteus maximus etc) about 10 days ago and have seen improvement of my chronic coccyx/buttock pain for first time in 3 years. For me I know the root cause is suppression of emotion which I am dealing with alongside the trigger point therapy. I feel as if I have hope.
I have had fibromyalgia now for 16 years roughly. The concept of treating, the trigger points is new to me.
Great video Actually im going trough this journey of healing. Im now 35 years old and since I was 18 I have being under severe chronic pain in my lumbar spine due to a herniated disc. Sadly because of my blind thrust in surgeons I allowed them to operate my vertebral column for three times, however the paint kept coming to the point that I was almost unable to handle my body and lose all the muscle of my right calf due to nerve impingement.
At this point I was loosing the most important thing in life and that is health. So I start researching and reading a lot of books until I found that the root cause of my problem came from my wrong moving pattern(I was not hinging correctly from my hip). to make short the history I started my path with Foundation Program from Dr. Eric Goodman and start doing some Yoga and weightlifting, know im starting with the trigger point therapy and it has speeded my healing process incredibly.
this is just some short description of the process, but believe me it was like going through hell. Now I feel like I am a new person and getting stronger every day.
As you mention in your video the body has this amazing capability to heal itself, but some time we don´t let work properly by keeping our wrong moving patterns and assuming that we understand our baby just because we live in it.
It is sad to see how our health system by being a business hast lost the interest of really helping people and just wants to take everybody to surgery as fast as possible.
If regular therapy does not work keep searching and dedicate yourself to understand the source of your pain.
And as long as it is possible avoid surgery, let your body work.
If you still are not healing the way you want to or the pain comes back, look into Dr. Sarno's work. He was on 20/20 and has healed hundreds of thousands of people in chronic pain. czcams.com/video/2B2IE0o7diU/video.html
Elisabeth Jean , you might find my work interesting? Check it out. czcams.com/video/afmu-QLeKwE/video.html
Thank you for this video. I have many trigger points in neck shoulders. I have been so dizzy since the last two months and did all kinds of tests. But now I am doing dry needling and it helps a lot. Can one do dry needling repeatedly
Wish you could be my doctor! I have multiple chronic injuries in my spine from the top to the bottom (cervical, thoracic, lumbar, and sacral). I have two herniated discs and two bulging discs and nerve radiculopathy in a few areas. This was all caused by trauma. I've been dealing with this for over two and a half years now and the pain has only gotten worse. Epidurals did nothing to help and one of them caused a post-dural puncture which resulted in a blood patch to fix. It was all generally awful. I know I have myofascial pain throughout my back and neck and shoulders, and I wish I could figure out how to treat it all properly myself.
Basically, my neck is a complete mess. Degenerated discs C3-C7, two bulging discs, stenosis, huge bone spurs, facet joint impingement, multiple syrinxes. Those are the diagnoses but It’s the constant intense, permanent trigger points that kill me. My scalenes are constantly activated and feel like a string of peanuts that need to be milked out. Somehow this has caused my shoulder including my teres, infraspinatus, all three deltoid muscles, triceps, pec minor and upper trap to literally feel like rocks or tv cables. I’m covered in bruises from constantly digging at myself with my hands, my back buddy, even my vessel sink and window sills. Anything firm at the right height that I can push against as hard as I can. The good thing about the bruises is that they evoke concern from doctors, physical therapists and family members who otherwise do not possess sympathy and ignore my pleas for help. It’s amazing how the human mind works. I often say I wish I turned bright purple when I was in intense pain because people do not seem to care if there is not a visual indicator that another person is experiencing severe discomfort. When I get cupping done it looks like I’ve been attacked by an octopus. People are absolutely shocked by the appearance of the cupping marks although they are not painful at all. Then there are the times where I’m at a 7/8 pain level at work just desperately trying to make it through my shift and the boss still makes me mop the floor at the end of the night, even when my left arm refuses to work at all. Or the days where I can barely stand up long enough to shower and am still guilted into cleaning the house, making dinner and driving the kids around... I consider myself a glass half full kind of girl and definitely use humor to get through the simple tasks in life. I try so hard to just maintain a positive attitude and accept the daily agonizing pain but many days it wins. I do the bare minimum. Show up for work, do my best, keep my appointments. Beyond that I’m pretty worthless. My quality of life is non existent. Ive become a pretty horrible mom and domestic partner. I have a lot of guilt. I just want to be normal and feel good. Over the past 15 years I’ve tried every kind of treatment you can think of. Doctors have no idea what to do with me. They just pass me off to specialists who refer me to other specialists. I’m pretty sure this 14th round of PT is making things worse, but the 26 year old kid won’t listen to me when I tell him the exercises he’s having me do to strengthen my rotator cuff muscles are causing my permanent trigger points to flare more intensely. I simply cannot work full time and when I did work in my field those 12 hour rotating shifts just about killed me. I was working in cell culture for BMS with my arms held up and forward for many hours every day working in a bio safety cabinet. It was torture. I’ve looked for part time easy lab positions but they are few and far between. I don’t know how my body became this diseased but the cause doesn’t matter to me as much as finding a way to at least reduce the pain to make it manageable so I can have some decent quality of life. I’ve developed a bit of doctor anxiety and find it very overwhelming to visit each new one and have to try to explain 15 years of my medical history only to feel rushed or brushed off. It’s been tough. I just try to take it one day at a time and hope at some point we find a solution. Sorry for my long, depressing story. That’s how I went from $27/hr to $6/hr.
Dear Michelle, i am 34 year old male from India..I have exactly the same problem as yours..i m also struggling with trigger points since last 2 years..it's really horrible and keeps coming back..i have tried everything from stretching exercises to TENS to cupping to Laser therapy to traction but nothing worked..only multiple sessions of Dry needling gave significant relief along with a course of clonotril 0.5 tablet..it seems that the larger part of the problem is somewhere in my mind..there are some unfulfilled desires, work related stress, depression and anxiety which is causing these trigger points to come again and again..seems like meditation and relaxation techniques should work..i m still positive as one must never lose hope in life..
Thank you for your help, you are inspiring me to fix chronic issues that I only treated with rest and resentment in the past.
You are a good man.
What an amazing presentation, Dr. Kuttner! I think my wife and I will be spending our Friday night watching this and some other videos you have posted. She has been dealing with chronic pain for about 5 years now, and I believe there was some damage caused to her subscapularis and possibly the serratus muscle, as well, when her orthopedist did the "unfreezing" procedure on her frozen shoulder, which was caused by rotator cuff surgery. After hearing the description of the procedure and looking back, it seems very straight-line that damage to the subscapularis could have easily happened. Thank you!
I’m starting your programme in June & am really excited. I am extremely knowledgeable about my pain, I know an awful lot about trigger points & how to treat them, but in the last couple of years I have honed in on the mind to help me cope with the two situations that can cause a pain flare up that I have identified. This is successful but only to a degree. I have known about sensitisation & pain amplification but not in too much detail & feel that with your help I can finally take full control of my pain system & turn down the signals (or turn off completely!) which will totally change my life. See you soon!
Hi Dr Kuttnet, wow! I’m so glad I stumbled on this video. I’ve been dealing with chronic tension headaches for three years. In my journey I have found regular remedial massage targeting the trigger points in my upper traps is the only effective management for my condition. But like you say, it comes back. Would love to know how you delve deeper into the root cause?
I have trigger points in my neck that cause excruciating pain which radiates into rams horn, vertex pain and posterior head pain. I can find the trigger points but even though I palpate them , message, etc. they will come back over and over. My sleeping patterns are .. lateral position with head kept perpendicular to body. No hyperextension. Areas down at all times. My pain is palpate along the upper traps, posterior scalenes. Hoping you could give me some insight why these keep returning. Thank you
I’m excited after watching your video. Five years ago I fell on the ice & have been in a downhill spiral ever since as far as my back goes. I’ve been to 4 different neurosurgeons and orthopedic surgeons. Some of them wanted to do surgery, and a few of them said surgery wouldn’t work. I’m terrified of back surgery. So I’ve been going to physical therapy for the past five years and have been getting traction also. Nothing seems to work. Recently I started seeing an acupuncturist, who is also an MD. He thinks I have myofascial pain syndrome & has mentioned trigger points. I guess I’ll have to ask him to help me find these trigger points on my back. I also have them in both shoulders now. So right now the next step is to watch your other videos. Thanks!
Any better
Thank you very much for nice informative video that helped me to understand the pain system and trigger point.
Always AMAZING Dr. Kuttner
I've been diagnosed with Fibromyalgia in 2010 (though suffered much longer). I do find trigger point release very helpful, but the reason my TPs are coming back is repetitive strain at work. Does this mean I'll never get rid of them?
What you're saying here about sensitization sounds like what my Doctor describes as neuropathic pain. However, I'm not totally convinced since my neck physically 'locks up' for a few seconds & then when it releases there is an audible 'crack' that can be heard across the other side of the room. That, to me seems like a mechanical problem rather than sensitization.
Great video! You haven't uploaded in so long! I am actually dealing with reoccurring trigger points every day (in my arm, neck, and shoulder), and I've also seen information of the mind/body aspect of pain. But I haven't heard trigger points linked to mind/body. Can't wait for your next video.
someone mentioned Yoga. Gentle yoga, which you can find on youtube is very helpful. The key here is always gentle. Hope this helps Victor R.
what are the other factors that we have to treat?you mentioned two parts.
Thank you
Thank you for all videos. You are very pleasent and calm. Thank you so much. I keep going on journey "freedom of chronic pain".🙂 💪
Thanks for this video!
You are a really good person! :)
I hope i can heal myself!
+Máté Boa I agree! Good and kind.
I have triggerpoints for over 10 years. Therapists told me that they will never go away. Do you think trigger points can become permanent, or are they coming back?
Really good video. My 14 year old is struggling with trigger points in his pectorial minor. The ischemic pressure works. I am now trying to find the other factors involved as it has returned after several months.
I have CRPS & you are right on target
Dr Kuttner, thank you so much for your you tube videos. I’m working my way though them to help me understand how to treat myself. I only have one or two recurring active TrPs, but I have latent TrPs in every muscle that I have looked for them! The lower back pain from the active TrPs is easily managed through massaging my left Gluteus medius. While the latent TrPs don’t cause direct pain, the dysfunction they cause make my muscles spasm and tense up. From my own research I now know that I have both Morton’s Toe and Rothbart’s Foot, anterior pelvic tilt, mild scoliosis. To treat these I use a Morton’s-specific insole (Prokinetics from Posture Dynamics), and I perform daily stretching exercises from Dr Jussi Timgren’s work on reversing functional scoliosis. I also use Simons’ and Travell’s work along with the Davies’ TP manual to help target any problematic TrP flair-ups. The improvement since implementing these solutions has been amazing. But (!) I still struggle with the muscle dysfunction - particularly from the waist to my feet. I’m an agriculturer, and some days I’m crippled at the end of the day from simply having walked a lot.
I’d be extremely grateful if you could point me to any of your work on treating latent TrPs for the whole body (where to start/focus?), treating Myofascial pain syndromes caused by Rothbart’s/Morton’s foot and also treating anterior pelvic tilt. Just a small request!!!
Appreciate your work very much! Margaret R
Thank you so very much!
Thank you so much for creating and posting these videos! I have watched 3 of them, and am now going to watch them all in order. I also clicked the link for the free materials, but no confirmation email has arrived; are they no longer available? Your videos are giving me a feeling of hope that I may be able to unravel my chronic pain issues, and if the written materials will help me learn to do this, I would greatly appreciate having them.
Thank you again!
Very helpful information and, despite the complexity of the subject, easily to understand.
had a nerve injury from sitting at an angle on my wallet on a long trip back in 95. still dealing with back pain and weak leg. now my hip is screwed up because due to not having balanced body because if it. hopefully working these trigger points help. thank you very much.
Have you tried Yoga? it helped me with a bad back.
not yet. I've been going to a chiropractor and that's been helping. He's been adjust different parts of my back, neck and pelvis with good results. I'm a little less sore in the hip but I'm sure the light pain is still there because it's something I've been dealing with for 4 years. He said I should be alright after a few more appointments. I've been better results with this guy than I have with any doctor or other chiropractor. The last one I went to kept doing the same adjustment over and over never fixing the problem. It was only temporary relief. He kept telling me that I had a short leg and that's why I was having these problems then sold me some lifts for my "short leg". The chiropractor I go to now says its not that I have a short leg, the problem is a twisted pelvis. I had a feeling that's what it was and the previous chiro didnt even listen when I told him that. That other chiro is a real scammer. I'm gonna try yoga once my hip is at least 80% recovered. thanks!! :D
Victor R I went to chiro for 18 months and it was always short term successful, but when I stopped and went to a massage therapist (who released trigger points) and started yoga (wasn't good at first so started gently) I got off pain killers within weeks. I do yoga (learned from youtube) 3-5 times a week and go at the trigger points in my lower back with a hard ball 2-3 times a week, recommend it highly as a lot of the pain comes from these guys as in the video above. Short leg can sometimes be the psoas muscle pulling the leg up and twisting the pelvis and therefore the spine, which is what I concentrate on in yoga. When the psoas got released my pelvis rotation went slowly away and I am a much happier person! Other thing which got me moving more was an inversion table, as this helped to gently pull everything into the right place, although it does go back and is really just a start to get you on your feet and walking, which is the best therapy of all. Lastly, I also benefited from meditation. I am not treating anyone's pain lightly as I have been there, but a good proportion of the impact of pain is from your attitude to it. Recommend "Mindfulness for Health" audiobook. Best of luck!
Thanks!! Actually I've been working on trigger points as well recently. The only issued I had was that I over did it on my lower left back and strained a muscle. Lol took me about a month to recover but I'm gonna work in that soon. I used a tennis ball on my psoas and that did help with the lower back. I ordered a theracane because I had a hard time getting the trigger points on my hamstrings so this should help. I really appreciate all the advice.
Victor R No probs. Just remember that the healing trauma of some of this therapy can be quite severe and so if you are very sore one or two days after a treatment that is normal, no pain no gain as they say. Cheers!
I have experienced many of the so called causes or traumas.How we deal with them determines it seems what then happens to us. Am particularly interested in the emotional/spiritual aspects, which I believe have validation with chronic illness of many kinds. Though have, understanding, it hasn't helped me make any progress, as I do seem to go round in circles, as was mentioned in your videos.
Yes. I love using trigger points. I have had chronic pain for decades. Trigger point therapy plus yoga n mindful awareness have mostly resolved it now
Thank you very much for making this video, I would like to start my conversation with you regarding my pain. Where do I start?
Thank you for all the detail infomation Dr. Kuttner
Best, Inga from Germany
Hi .. i have suffered pain all my life from a condition we called "cramp" in the family bloodline, turns out its called Thompsens disease, also called Myatonia cogenita, which translates as " a genetically inherited muscle condition" so doesnt actually tell us anything we don't already painfully know, the symptons are involuntary muscle spasms knotting and pulling against each other causing pain, it occurs in every part of my muscle system (not all at once) and usually in several different related areas simultaneously, i don't lose control like in a fit but i have to stop whatever i am doing and writhe around contorting and rubbing bits of me to try and ease the pain. chances are you haven't come across it in your career, not many doctors have and some have even suggested it might be a psychological problem (very frustrating) its one in a million who have it but its 50% of all offspring of whichever unlucky recipient acquires it, 3 of my 5 have it, it came through my father but doesn't discriminate sexually, my daughter has it, one of my 2 sisters has it, my brother doesn't, 3 of my sisters 6 have it and some of our grandchildren, you get the picture. there is no known medication or treatment, i myself have become a health practitioner and follow certain practices, diet and keep fit, i eat a plant based diet and keep it organic, avoid all chemicals in food or medication don't eat mammals, do eat very occasional fish or egg, my sister on the other hand took a different path and sought help within the mainstream medicine system, she found out some useful stuff and how little is known. they dose her with quinine when it gets bad, except of course when pregnant, and the girls have it bad during child carrying. i am an athletic hard working tree surgeon (no it didn't stop me) but i have to self manage my condition and align my activities according to my condition, i know if i weren't afflicted with this genetic curse that i would of excelled at any chosen physical pursuit because i am still fitter than most that are younger than me, i am full of trigger points and old wounds but the real frustration is in my more inner or quieter practices, yoga or meditation for example, i wonder if you have any knowledge about this condition, disease, or whatever it truly is ?
Phil.
Very interesting & very informative & I I like the self aspect
Hi, Is there another video on this journey and what is it called? Many thanks.
What exactly is "coming back" mean ?
I get these little twitches under my skin or inside the muscle and those eventually start to create pain.
Trigge points spread right ?
Hello Jonathan, I came to you years ago…. I’m currently in a pretty bad state and would love to chat about it but I’m told you’ve retired from working with patients.
Love this. I have only been treating for a couple of days. Still need to work on stress.
Thanks
What do you mean by “looking bigger”? What could be the other factors? (12:35) Can you elaborate please.
I've had pain on my right calf for many years on and of. Intuitibly I pressed a trigger point someplace and the pain dissapeared instantly and it did not come back for many years. Sadly I dont remember the exact spot where I pressed. That's how searching I understood what I had done unknowningly. Hope with your help I can finding that exact spot as my calf is giving trouble now more than ever. Thank you for your valuable videos.
Thank you.
How do you find the other factors that are contributing to the trigger points returning?
Thank You!!! You have said everything I have been telling my doctor!!
Hello
I have severe trigger point issues. I have had injections, TENS treatment, acupuncture, massage etc and within a day I am back to pain. I understand why I have pain but u didn't really explain how to eliminate or really reduce the issue. Please help
Dry needling
Thank you very much
Great information about mind body
What are those other factors?
Thank you, doctor!
Dear Doctor - Do trigger points address pain in the Ligaments? Eg. MCL or LCL of the knee that recurs often.
Really interesting ! What if you keep reinjuring your TP ? If it never completley heals can you still over come it ? Great presentation though, Thanks for caring !
I've been fighting chronic pain for 30 months following fusion if S1-L2. SI pain sciatica, groin pain, knee pain. All were being treated separately. My massage therapist has finally detected what she thinks is the point of origin for all these ailments...Psaos muscle. I just found your video and am looking to integrate your methods into her trigger point therapy.
Dr Knutter
Would you say that now you are completely pain free or you have now less episodes of pain
Dr. Kuttner
Your videos have been interesting. I used to participate in Randonneuring format of cycling events. About a year back, I was diagnosed with severe muscle damage(CPK beyond 450). I have been living with a stiff back for years now. It would be great if I can get your mail ID. Need some clarification on my current condition. Will wait to hear from you.
Regards
Avm
Hi doctor, I can't breathe coz of my pillow and there is back shoulder pain and having heart palpation and shortness of breath.once I tried stimulator machine on that point and my palpation and shortness of breath gone off amazingly. But next day I had same pillow problem and now I'm not able to find my right trigger point, sometimes I miss the trigger point and maybe I press another point and I get lots of heart palpation and nausea. Plz help
How very interesting the you used zoos to describe the pain cycle. Zoos are so horrible ☹️
thank you so much .
❤️ I need to Un stuck all my buddy 🙏🏽❤️
With advanced techniques that release trigger points remotely. Treatments are longer lasting, and usually only require 1 to 5 short 15 minuet sessions for a total resolution to the pain problem. Here is an example of advanced trigger point work. czcams.com/video/afmu-QLeKwE/video.html
8:30 is where he actually stops talking nonsense.
Chronic Pain Cycle 😊
Nice expression