You are definitely correct. These days it seems like most people just want to grab an LS truck engine out of a junkyard. Don't get me wrong. Those engines are definitely cool, but there's still definitely a place for a good pushrod Ford too. Thanks for watching!
I build a 351W 400hp/400trq in my Black 67 Fastback and no issues with headers. But I really love that 427 600hp fuel injection! I have my eye on that big boy for a while now! Maybe Christmas will come early for me!
@@AZCobraman lmao! Seems like the exact same spelling of his username IN quotations nonetheless, didn't help either...i doubt anything else would have worked, to be honest.
Love watching a true Craftsman who takes pride in his work assembling an engine.😎 Y’all are an absolute joy to observe as you go about the business of doing what you love with skill and pride in you’re work. In an era of automated/computer controlled everything it does my heart good to watch Professionals at work. One day the engine in my ‘04 F-150 STX will blow and when it does I hope to be in a position to grab one of your 427W’s to replace it.
Great build it looks both amazingly powerful & long term reliable at the same time. The last thing I would want is a small block twin turbo charged engine that most likely needs a complete rebuild every 10K miles.
That'll turn a few skids👌. Honestly surprised that it didn't want to Rev harder with such an aggressive cam and big head. Keep up the good videos and great to see the old powerblock episodes comming to CZcams.
Damn I have a smaller XE Xr292r Comp cam street solid roller in my pump gas 438windsor and it spins like a swiss watch to 7200rpm. It blew up 4 Built C4 transmissions in my 68 Mustang. Now I run a built TH400.
YES for EFI! I am done with cleaning out carbs. I am at the point where if I see a carb on my new lawn mower I'm going to shoot it off. I'll take something that just works, thank you!
EFI was a pain to make work just a few years ago. I love how easy it has gotten to work with lately thanks to some smart manufacturers. Thanks for watching!
@@maximusvonce1381 why is someone stupid because that's a preference. Like I said I prefer a carburetor. If you have the extra $$$ for port fuel injection then go ahead and buy it. The question is when it breaks can you fix it yourself??? I can rebuild and tune my carburetor.
Damn I have a smaller XE Xr292r Comp cam street solid roller in my pump gas 438windsor and it spins like a swiss watch to 7200rpm. It blew up 4 Built C4 transmissions in my 68 Mustang. Now I run a built TH400.
maximus vonce yep you need to build a c4 to handle hp i have a 5.0 with a little over 500hp detonated it in less than an hour on my first run and it was only a test run damage$ my block cracked the starter bolts right off the block i have never seen a tranny blow up like mine did shattered bell housing and blew tail shaft all to hell so now got a new motor new tranny (power glide2speed fast and faster) 1200 + hp enginemy fox is soon gunna be chasing some hen$
STREET RACER hmmm no, engines get sent here from the US all the time with dyno sheets from well known shops, then when they go on the pump here they somehow lose 20% to 40% of the HP lmao, a 427 SBF ain’t shit here if it doesn’t make 700 to 800hp on our crap pump fuel. czcams.com/video/oJRMLfrlPvg/video.html
That would be a lot of fun. I've got my eye on a couple of builds some engine builders are planning. Hoping one of them will come through! Thanks for watching!
Hereinmissoula yeah, why the hell are you even going to use a solid roller cam if you're not even going to spin it to 6500rpm? Kind of makes you wonder sometimes if these guys even actually know what they're doing....
Hereinmissoula Looking at the shape of the torque curve, the power would of kept going with a bit of work. Though advertised HP was 600 and 6500 was all that was needed
Its a 220cc on a 438 not a 408. You need a lot of air to turn 7000 on a 438. Probably 375 plus on the heads and over 400 theought the manifold Probably more like a 240cc head thats gonna require Shaft rockers different pattern exhaust etc. 6500 out of a 10.5 to 1 engine is about all this engine had. All it needs on the street yeah they could have just used a hydro roller with 260 @.050 to do it but it would ahve definately been a custom grind cam.
Flat-hood Panthers have been built with low and high deck Windsors (so the answer to your question is obviously yes), low and high deck Clevelands, FEs, and 385-series "Lima" big blocks.
I’m building very similar motor. I’ll be using an Edelbrock elbow through a proM MAF and 4 inch power pipe and 90 mm throttle body. Hope I get similar power numbers this build.
Poor factory oiling system that requires extensive modifications for race duty. Cleveland heads work much better for all out racing but the inline valve windsor heads seem to provide better low rpm torque for street use. NASCAR engines used to be Cleveland/ Yates heads on Windsor blocks.
@@RSDX99 It's amazing that false anti-Cleveland propaganda has persisted all these years. The 351C-4V began as an industrial engine that had a toggle switch (idle/run), and the "run" position was WOT -- in 24-hr/day service, connected typically to fuel tanks having capacities greater than 200 gallons (and occasionally, over 800 gallons). Granted, those weren't cammed to kill, but they made Big-Block power from a Small-Block package. Then you've got everything from the lowly 351C-2V that hauled around luxo-sleds weighing more than 4000 pounds, delivering surprisingly spritely performance for their class -- to the 71 Boss and 72 HO engines that kicked ass and took names. It's like everyone talking about what a gigantic car was the piggish, portly, hyper-obese 71-73 Mustang (which was actually smaller and lighter than the "svelte and wiry Camaro" of the same years). Read the magazine reviews, and you come away with the impression that the Mustang was an underpowered land-yacht dragging its anchor everywhere it went. I've driven both (71-73 Camaros and 71-73 Mustangs), and the Mustang was by far the more nimble car, that gave vastly superior feedback to the driver. The Mustang did have a blind spot the size of Alaska, but no Camaro I ever faced could catch up with me close enough to block the lane, anyway -- and I think the Mustang was every bit as good, if not better than, the Camaro at low speeds. Plus, the Mustang looked sporty and felt as though it had the composure and poise of a great cat: it evoked its NAA namesake, whereas the Camaro looked and felt cheap, and evoked the image of a wannabe or a poser. As to the idea that the webs of the 351C were inherently weak and prone to breakage, it's interesting that modern NHRA Pro Stock and IHRA Mountain Motor engines run 351C main bearings. Tear into the bottoms of a 1970-1974 SBC-350, Ford 351C, and Mopar 340 and 360 (I know it's unfair that Mopar gets 2 bites at the apple, but if I picked one or the other, someone would bitch about how that wasn't being fair) -- and compare 2-bolt mains to 2-bolt mains, and 4-bolt mains to 4-bolt mains, design & construction vs design & construction. Then take into account that the iron used in Ford's regular production 2-bolt blocks was on-par with the strength of the iron used in GM's race blocks of the same era, and vastly stronger than the material GM used in regular production; and then realize that Ford also had hi-nod/nickel blocks: the Ford blocks are simply better. Not saying that Mopar was crap, but Mopar generally used additional material instead of stepping up to a stronger material. And, although GM and Mopar were doing radical surgery on their PS blocks, and changing the angles of the valves in the heads, and the angles of the combustion chambers with respect to the block, and moving spark plug locations and relocating camshafts and such, in addition to running stud girdles and windage trays (I can't remember when dry sump oiling got started), Bob Glidden was kicking ass with a 351C that had been sleeved to allow a 4.080 bore (Mopar could get there with just a 0.040 overbore, and GM just increased the wall thickness of the 400-SBC to reduce the 4.125-bore to its targeted ideal). If the Cleveland bottom-end was as weak as it's been made out to be, Glidden's car would have been puking crankshafts in the pits, and never have made it to the starting line. As to why Ford switched to the Windsor, neither horsepower nor torque, nor "notoriously fragile main webs" or any other phantom malady had anything AT ALL to do with Ford's decision: the Windsor was simply cheaper to manufacture, and it was adequate to the task that Ford asked it to perform. And if you think that the buying public really gave a damn about muscle during the Cleveland era in the USA, take a look at how those engines sold, versus cheaper models -- or, the number I think is really telling is the unit-sales figures for 1970-1974 (just looking here at Camaro-vs-Mustang/Mustang II): 1970: Camaro (all) = 124,901; Mustang (all) = 190,727 1971: Camaro (all) = 114,630; Mustang (all) = 149,678 1972: Camaro (all) = 80,015; Mustang (all) = 125,903 1973: Camaro (all) = 96,751; Mustang (all) = 134,867 1974: Camaro (all) = 151,008; Mustang II* (all) = 385,993 The Mustang II wasn't even available with a V8 in 1974.
@@wireflight You are right Corazon!The Cleveland is an awesome engine.Here in Australia they were casting Ford Cleveland Blocks for Nascar teams in America.They did two batches ,The first in the mid seventies and again in the early eighties.These special blocks had a casting number begining xe195240.Thicker bores ,pan rails etc.It was only in 85 onwards they started running the windsor blocks with Cleveland heads .Cleveland production in Australia ,sadly ended then but we had it much longer than the states did:)
Does anyone know if this beautiful 427 engine would install in a 67 cougar that currently has the factory 289. Would this engine upgrade require modified hood, inner fender wells/front end etc.? I'm fully aware that many other modifications have to be done to the cougar to handle the upgrade in power. My original plan was to install a HO 289 or 302 Any information would be appreciated. I'm also going to contact prestige.
Besides building engines, Prestige Motorsports also has a hot rod shop. They do a lot of their own install work so somebody there probably will know. Good luck and thanks for watching!
Kevin Guthrie should go in with no problems - the cougar was even offered with the 351 Windsor when they were new. Find the right parts and it's a bolt in, and will fit under a stock hood.
I agree with street racer, believe it or not steel will in a sense absorb the oil and not to mention the tiny little bearings in the rollers will take on oil... Hope this makes sense?
@@chickenmaster7069 -- You're either ignorant or stupid.. maybe both. Go find a used lifter, steel rocker arm, just about any internal engine part and heat it up. Clean it with brake cleaner first, then heat it. You will crap when you see how much oil seeps from the clean steel.
Wish! That probably wouldn’t be wise. Nope, it will need to be at least 91 octane. But still available at practically any gas station. Thanks for watching!
There werent a lot of piston options back when i did my build a few years ago. I wish these SRP were available then as they look nice & r actually 3cc smaller than the Mahle 26cc i used which neccessitated me milling the heads just to get up to 10.5 CR. Thats a good safe CR for street as the target car 4 the 1 i did will b n traffic n rod runs, etc in summer heat with A/C. And it made stupid low end torque anyway so did not need more CR.
I would like someone to explain to me how those type of connecting rods are stronger than the I beam type. Also how can those short skirt pistons keep straight in the bores for any length of time. I may be in my 70s but can still learn.
As-manufactured, H-beam connecting rods are commonly regarded as being weaker than their I-beam counterparts; however, the former often are contoured better for stroker applications. Partly, that has to do with the geometry of making an assembly fit inside the block (along with things like the camshaft), and partly that has to do with putting the right amount of mass at the right place in space, to facilitate the balancing of the overall assembly. At least, that's my take on it.
Make little more power on e85. Mine made 505wheel through a 4k stall th400. Faster up top. Destroys cars that make 100wheel more than me. Th400 is drag king
This was my same line of thinking but the a**holes at isky wouldnt evn return my calls so i originally bought $1200 Crower bushing lifters (which were too small in dia & would have required installing lifter bore bushings in a brand new block) but i was cautioned against running bushed lifters on the street by a tech at morel who said he'd seen many sets of their bushed lifters (which he would have gotten more money from me on) returned locked up after street use so he steered me to the pressure-fed ultra pros which he said they've seen very few failures with in street use.
@@timchadwick8245 2 years later....how did the morels hold up for you? I have a set in my 427...and I havent had any issues...but i dont put many miles on the engine.
When i used 2 drag race my chevy buddies always said that about 351C because they had canted valves like a BBC "yeah - but thats a big block!" My reply "It's 351 cubic inches." Lol
Nah, not really. I did basically the same engine with a very slightly smaller cam (253/258 .695" gross) same CR but it made WAY more tq & 679 hp. Only major difference i c is i fully ported the intake, not sure what went wrong with this 1
Naturally aspirated Fords with Hammerhead Hemi heads are making 1000-1200 on race gas; nobody knows where the limit is. Different people have different ideas concerning what is and isn't a street engine; most of the people pushing the idea of putting huge power numbers down on the street are making their power with race engines tuned to run on whatever fuel is considered "street gas" at that time -- usually, that's either: (a) E85; (b) Sunoco 100; (c) AKI-93 (aka: "93 PON," "93 DON," "93-Octane" or some like appellation derived from the AKI format "((MON+RON)/2)" used in the US. To get an idea how close are pump gas numbers and race gas numbers with Cleveland-style heads, check out: czcams.com/video/5Rz7paeKSOM/video.html Use of octane booster is generally frowned upon, but pump blends are generally allowed, and I've never heard of anyone actually testing for the use of octane booster. Granted, you can hang a license plate on a race car, and in many jurisdictions that (plus minimal liability insurance) is enough to make it "street legal," but just because the state will let you get away with that doesn't make it a street vehicle. Ditto for "it passed the HRM Power Tour" road test -- although that's at least a step towards weeding-out the most outrageously insane combinations. If your engine won't hold a load against the dyno brake from at least as low as 1500-ish rpm, all the way to redline, it's a race engine.
Theyve done stuff like this before. it was called the pump gas drags by hot rod magazine and yes, they did drain your tank and fuel was tested. they used rocket 93 octane and quarantined the cars overnight then we saw who really had a fast pump gas car or who would grenade their engine. and quite a few people did. it ran from 2004 to 2007 and they had to do a cruise. you couldn't make the 20+ mile cruise, DQ'd
All Ford 302-351w are priority main oiling from the factory! Whats funny is all the ignorant people that make a big deal about the aftermarket stuff being that way! Ford was not confused but Chevrolet sure was!
The factory production Cleveland blocks unfortunately didn’t have priority main bearing oiling. The Ford engineers responsible for designing the Cleveland block actually did a pretty good job with their original design. Apparently the bean counting financial geniuses at Ford decided it would save on production costs if the blocks were only machined for two main oil passages instead of the customary three typically used for priority oiling. The lack of priority oiling didn’t become a problem until the early seventies when Pro Stock engine builders realized the superior flow potential of the Cleveland quench chamber four barrel heads, especially at extremely high rpm’s. It didn’t take long before the aftermarket cam grinders figured it out too and suddenly stock block Clevelands were making huge power at 9000 rpm’s. With an inadequate oil supply, the first thing to go were the main bearings which was usually followed by total block destruction. Keep in mind that aftermarket blocks weren’t available yet so smart builders found feasible ways to deal with the problem. It obviously worked because that’s when Bob Glidden began his domination in Pro Stock using production Cleveland blocks. I mentioned Glidden because his success set off the GM cry babies which forced the NHRA puppets to start changing their rule books in a pitiful attempt to factor out Clevelands from being competitive. The situation was also very similar in NASCAR circles too 🏆. In a recent interview on DragBoss Garage, the legendary “Animal” Jim Feurer said that before he switched to the Boss 429 design, he would routinely spin his production based iron Cleveland engines to 10,500 rpm’s during match race competition. That’s amazing. I’ve owned some great 351 Windsor powered Mustangs but unfortunately they don’t have the testicular fortitude required to hang with a identically prepared Cleveland. That’s just my opinion and I’m sure that others will strongly disagree 🏁.
It is a naturally aspirated pump gas street motor that makes good torque down low, should have excellent throttle response off idle and will last for years without needing a rebuild. Just asking, how much power should it make?
A texas speed LS isn't that much more HP and they are using more compression and good EFI. This EFI system arrangement here was already tested by CHP, and it was the lowest performing of the 3 systems tested. So if they used an ELBOW/TB combo, they could have hit probably 630-640 in a small block package. The solid roller is un-necessary, though.
The 1 i did made 679 but with a bit of work to the heads, fully-ported intake, FAST TB & injectors & a Holley ECU & slightly smaller Bullet cam & better valve train. (Jesel shafts, 7/16" pushrods & better springs & titanium retainers). And probably also a happier dyno lol
There are no rod bolts. These connecting rods use cap screws, or bolts that insert in through the cap side. If you turn the crank so that the throw is away from the cylinder bore, you can install the rods and pistons into the cylinder bores without having to worry about contacting the rod throws on the crank. Then you can gently push the piston in the rest of the way with one hand while guiding the big end of the rod over the crank throw with the other hand. Thanks for watching.
Everyone’s been saying Ft/lbs for a long time now and people are trying to switch it around because it’s probably correct. Ft/lbs sounds better I think.
Gotta say... The only problem I see with your channel is that I don't get to hear these damn engines!!! Screw the quiet outside pipes on the dyno. Maybe you need to go outside and give us a fix!
Everyone always leaves out all the other parts to convert when they talk about how cheap and easy an LS is. Trans, driveshaft, mounts, harness, pcm just to name a couple grand worth. Ls swap whatever you want but you are not going to save money Doing so.
Geez louise...any build that goes anywhere near 600+ shouldnt have any factory parts and ur not going to make over 400hp with factory heads, intakes etc lmao. Altho i did a 406 SBC a few years ago that made 643hp on pump gas with an OEM 511 block (ONLY Chevy part on it) that somehow still hasnt split
![665 Cubic Inch (10.9 Liters!) Monster Big Block Engine Build [The Displacement King]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/F9LI2-lpnEY/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm a MOPAR guy, but this is a beast! That torque curve is outstanding!
Thanks for watching! I hope to have some cool Hemi builds coming up soon.
get some VICTOR 340 HEADS and Put on a 408 slightly higher compression same came and see Higher results
I like that you dyno'd it with all the accessories.
Engine Masters did a show on the power drag of accessories. They all take a little but the Alternator is a hog, taking 15 horses.
@@johnparrish9215 yes.
Isn't it horrible that the engine won't run for long without them.
Only way to do it if you want ACCURATE measurements.
Windsor engines are underrated..
You are definitely correct. These days it seems like most people just want to grab an LS truck engine out of a junkyard. Don't get me wrong. Those engines are definitely cool, but there's still definitely a place for a good pushrod Ford too. Thanks for watching!
I love the old FEs but for a Mustang or Cobra build, this is optimum . In my opinion
I have a pump gas fuel injected 438WINDSOR that made 680hp. Killer engine
What engine management/ecu and injection system you running?
@@TheRdub82 multiport fuel injection with mass air flow meter
@@TheRdub82 PCM from 93 Foxbody 5.0
@@maximusvonce1381 thanks
I build a 351W 400hp/400trq in my Black 67 Fastback and no issues with headers. But I really love that 427 600hp fuel injection! I have my eye on that big boy for a while now! Maybe Christmas will come early for me!
Awesome engine, always love a high horsepower Ford.
@THAT Guy thanks
Please, don't be 'THAT Guy' LOL ;o)
It's a joke son, a joke!
Next time I'll add a :oD since the ;o) and LOL wasn't enough...
@@AZCobraman lmao! Seems like the exact same spelling of his username IN quotations nonetheless, didn't help either...i doubt anything else would have worked, to be honest.
Love watching a true Craftsman who takes pride in his work assembling an engine.😎 Y’all are an absolute joy to observe as you go about the business of doing what you love with skill and pride in you’re work. In an era of automated/computer controlled everything it does my heart good to watch Professionals at work. One day the engine in my ‘04 F-150 STX will blow and when it does I hope to be in a position to grab one of your 427W’s to replace it.
Thank you for the great SB Ford build. Keep on working to make this 50 year old motor design better and better.
Great build it looks both amazingly powerful & long term reliable at the same time. The last thing I would want is a small block twin turbo charged engine that most likely needs a complete rebuild every 10K miles.
Great video thank you Horsepower Monster!
I totally agree. I think Horsepower Monster probably would too 😉🏁
Perfect and future engine goals
That'll turn a few skids👌. Honestly surprised that it didn't want to Rev harder with such an aggressive cam and big head.
Keep up the good videos and great to see the old powerblock episodes comming to CZcams.
Damn I have a smaller XE Xr292r Comp cam street solid roller in my pump gas 438windsor and it spins like a swiss watch to 7200rpm. It blew up 4 Built C4 transmissions in my 68 Mustang. Now I run a built TH400.
Love the sledge hammer at 1:24 !
Windsor baby oh yeah!!
One word, Awesome !
Fun stuff thanks...!
Runs smooth
I would like to borrow that for a few years😂. My mustang needs a donation. Very nice build👍🏽
YES for EFI! I am done with cleaning out carbs. I am at the point where if I see a carb on my new lawn mower I'm going to shoot it off. I'll take something that just works, thank you!
EFI was a pain to make work just a few years ago. I love how easy it has gotten to work with lately thanks to some smart manufacturers. Thanks for watching!
that 427 c i Ford Windsor is a torque beast....tbs!!
This would be a great swap for an old school F100.
That's a beautiful torque curve. As a Honda guy, I've always been jealous of the big V8 powerbands. Maybe I'll convert one day.
Today is the day
Absolutely beautiful and potent engine but I guess I'm OCD because the block should be Ford blue. That's bugging me.
Thanks
Sweet!
Awesome 👍
Great video
Thanks a lot! Much appreciated!
Investing in a port fuel injection setup is so much nicer than just slapping another carb on top of a muscle car engine build
Exactly mate.
I prefer a carburetor!
Port Efi night and day over dinosaur carb
Then you are stupid
@@maximusvonce1381 why is someone stupid because that's a preference. Like I said I prefer a carburetor. If you have the extra $$$ for port fuel injection then go ahead and buy it. The question is when it breaks can you fix it yourself??? I can rebuild and tune my carburetor.
Great video! What car is this engine going in?
Damn I have a smaller XE Xr292r Comp cam street solid roller in my pump gas 438windsor and it spins like a swiss watch to 7200rpm. It blew up 4 Built C4 transmissions in my 68 Mustang. Now I run a built TH400.
maximus vonce yep you need to build a c4 to handle hp i have a 5.0 with a little over 500hp detonated it in less than an hour on my first run and it was only a test run damage$ my block cracked the starter bolts right off the block i have never seen a tranny blow up like mine did shattered bell housing and blew tail shaft all to hell so now got a new motor new tranny (power glide2speed fast and faster) 1200 + hp enginemy fox is soon gunna be chasing some hen$
@@chickenmaster7069 That's why i have a Th400 now
What does this make at tire in auto transmission
LEGIT!
Legit power and solid torque all american torque
What's fake power then ? 😂
600 USA horsepower is equivalent to 450 Australian horsepower
STREET RACER hmmm no, engines get sent here from the US all the time with dyno sheets from well known shops, then when they go on the pump here they somehow lose 20% to 40% of the HP lmao, a 427 SBF ain’t shit here if it doesn’t make 700 to 800hp on our crap pump fuel.
czcams.com/video/oJRMLfrlPvg/video.html
@@joshedits3196 Turbos are fake horsepower LOL
@@Crazywaffle5150 dumbest shit I've ever heard
What octane pump gas
Not sure why a Dart block was used, a stock windsor block can handle that power, I am building a 408 to handle 625HP and not using a Dart block.
you will find out about that later.....like I did.
What engine do think will fit n a 2011 crown Vic police interceptor
Anyone know more about the fuel injection system used?
Very nice ,very nice .Have a question did you have to use a reverse rotation water pump? Since the motor does have a serpentine belt.
Yes, I'm pretty sure it is. It all came together as a kit from Billet Specialties. Thanks for watching!
Can you do a video on Pontiac 350s?
I believe they were popular engines in the Trans Am series (not the actual car).
That would be a lot of fun. I've got my eye on a couple of builds some engine builders are planning. Hoping one of them will come through! Thanks for watching!
WHY?
@@craphittingthefan2360 … Because GM 350 engines have electrolytes ?
It looks fun. Is there any flat crank v8 video?
I would luv 2 hear a traditional pushrod engine with a flat plane crank on the dyno but that would b 1 very costly build
Was that cam a special ground cam or is it a cam of the shelf
What happened up top ? Seemed like you had plenty of cam timing and enough cylinder head , even with 427 ci , to peak 6800-7000... there is more there
Hereinmissoula yeah, why the hell are you even going to use a solid roller cam if you're not even going to spin it to 6500rpm? Kind of makes you wonder sometimes if these guys even actually know what they're doing....
Hereinmissoula Looking at the shape of the torque curve, the power would of kept going with a bit of work. Though advertised HP was 600 and 6500 was all that was needed
gothic pagan this engine was just built wrong ... way more potential in it
Alan McGahie cam timing/specs are all wrong
Its a 220cc on a 438 not a 408. You need a lot of air to turn 7000 on a 438. Probably 375 plus on the heads and over 400 theought the manifold
Probably more like a 240cc head thats gonna require Shaft rockers different pattern exhaust etc.
6500 out of a 10.5 to 1 engine is about all this engine had. All it needs on the street yeah they could have just used a hydro roller with 260 @.050 to do it but it would ahve definately been a custom grind cam.
I'd like to see this with Hammerhead Hemi heads, in a comparison.
I'd love to get my hands on a pair of those too!
Is this an Extreme Energy solid roller or race roller. Is this a custom grind Xr292R extreme energy solid roller.
Its a billet core so it is not a cast core extreme energy also it has more duration & lift than the largest extreme energy grind
Great build guys question can that baby fit in a 2004 crown victoria?
Flat-hood Panthers have been built with low and high deck Windsors (so the answer to your question is obviously yes), low and high deck Clevelands, FEs, and 385-series "Lima" big blocks.
That Crown Vic will swallow ANY engine
This is a custom grind, or road race cam. Those are tight lashes for such a big duration lift cam.
Yeah he said 105 Intake so it probably had a 110 LSA and was 5* advanced?
would be nice to hear total engine cost at least for the public available products
I agree on knowing the cost. But that’s kinda like asking a woman about her age. She don’t want to talk about it 🤷♂️😁.
Wow this engine could walk the dog and kicked the cat all day long
This would be great in a maverick. 700+ would be ideal though.
Begging for a turbo
Would the lash need regular readjustment with the roller cam on this engine?
Solid rollers require more maintenance.
You cannot beat a 351... reliable
Sorry if I missed it but what was the compression for this build?
Heads are 58 cc as stated but I didn’t catch what the CR was
No problem. 10.5:1. Thanks for watching.
I’m building very similar motor. I’ll be using an Edelbrock elbow through a proM MAF and 4 inch power pipe and 90 mm throttle body. Hope I get similar power numbers this build.
Whatever happen to Clevelands? Used to be the performance choice way back when...
Poor factory oiling system that requires extensive modifications for race duty. Cleveland heads work much better for all out racing but the inline valve windsor heads seem to provide better low rpm torque for street use. NASCAR engines used to be Cleveland/ Yates heads on Windsor blocks.
@@RSDX99 Thanks! Always wondered. Had a 400 in a 71' LTD. Ran great as a daily driver...
@@islandaerial3414 -- Australia is ALL about the Cleveland.
@@RSDX99 It's amazing that false anti-Cleveland propaganda has persisted all these years. The 351C-4V began as an industrial engine that had a toggle switch (idle/run), and the "run" position was WOT -- in 24-hr/day service, connected typically to fuel tanks having capacities greater than 200 gallons (and occasionally, over 800 gallons). Granted, those weren't cammed to kill, but they made Big-Block power from a Small-Block package.
Then you've got everything from the lowly 351C-2V that hauled around luxo-sleds weighing more than 4000 pounds, delivering surprisingly spritely performance for their class -- to the 71 Boss and 72 HO engines that kicked ass and took names. It's like everyone talking about what a gigantic car was the piggish, portly, hyper-obese 71-73 Mustang (which was actually smaller and lighter than the "svelte and wiry Camaro" of the same years).
Read the magazine reviews, and you come away with the impression that the Mustang was an underpowered land-yacht dragging its anchor everywhere it went. I've driven both (71-73 Camaros and 71-73 Mustangs), and the Mustang was by far the more nimble car, that gave vastly superior feedback to the driver.
The Mustang did have a blind spot the size of Alaska, but no Camaro I ever faced could catch up with me close enough to block the lane, anyway -- and I think the Mustang was every bit as good, if not better than, the Camaro at low speeds. Plus, the Mustang looked sporty and felt as though it had the composure and poise of a great cat: it evoked its NAA namesake, whereas the Camaro looked and felt cheap, and evoked the image of a wannabe or a poser.
As to the idea that the webs of the 351C were inherently weak and prone to breakage, it's interesting that modern NHRA Pro Stock and IHRA Mountain Motor engines run 351C main bearings. Tear into the bottoms of a 1970-1974 SBC-350, Ford 351C, and Mopar 340 and 360 (I know it's unfair that Mopar gets 2 bites at the apple, but if I picked one or the other, someone would bitch about how that wasn't being fair) -- and compare 2-bolt mains to 2-bolt mains, and 4-bolt mains to 4-bolt mains, design & construction vs design & construction.
Then take into account that the iron used in Ford's regular production 2-bolt blocks was on-par with the strength of the iron used in GM's race blocks of the same era, and vastly stronger than the material GM used in regular production; and then realize that Ford also had hi-nod/nickel blocks: the Ford blocks are simply better. Not saying that Mopar was crap, but Mopar generally used additional material instead of stepping up to a stronger material.
And, although GM and Mopar were doing radical surgery on their PS blocks, and changing the angles of the valves in the heads, and the angles of the combustion chambers with respect to the block, and moving spark plug locations and relocating camshafts and such, in addition to running stud girdles and windage trays (I can't remember when dry sump oiling got started), Bob Glidden was kicking ass with a 351C that had been sleeved to allow a 4.080 bore (Mopar could get there with just a 0.040 overbore, and GM just increased the wall thickness of the 400-SBC to reduce the 4.125-bore to its targeted ideal).
If the Cleveland bottom-end was as weak as it's been made out to be, Glidden's car would have been puking crankshafts in the pits, and never have made it to the starting line.
As to why Ford switched to the Windsor, neither horsepower nor torque, nor "notoriously fragile main webs" or any other phantom malady had anything AT ALL to do with Ford's decision: the Windsor was simply cheaper to manufacture, and it was adequate to the task that Ford asked it to perform.
And if you think that the buying public really gave a damn about muscle during the Cleveland era in the USA, take a look at how those engines sold, versus cheaper models -- or, the number I think is really telling is the unit-sales figures for 1970-1974 (just looking here at Camaro-vs-Mustang/Mustang II):
1970: Camaro (all) = 124,901; Mustang (all) = 190,727
1971: Camaro (all) = 114,630; Mustang (all) = 149,678
1972: Camaro (all) = 80,015; Mustang (all) = 125,903
1973: Camaro (all) = 96,751; Mustang (all) = 134,867
1974: Camaro (all) = 151,008; Mustang II* (all) = 385,993
The Mustang II wasn't even available with a V8 in 1974.
@@wireflight You are right Corazon!The Cleveland is an awesome engine.Here in Australia they were casting Ford Cleveland Blocks for Nascar teams in America.They did two batches ,The first in the mid seventies and again in the early eighties.These special blocks had a casting number begining xe195240.Thicker bores ,pan rails etc.It was only in 85 onwards they started running the windsor blocks with Cleveland heads .Cleveland production in Australia ,sadly ended then but we had it much longer than the states did:)
Does anyone know if this beautiful 427 engine would install in a 67 cougar that currently has the factory 289. Would this engine upgrade require modified hood, inner fender wells/front end etc.? I'm fully aware that many other modifications have to be done to the cougar to handle the upgrade in power. My original plan was to install a HO 289 or 302 Any information would be appreciated. I'm also going to contact prestige.
It should! If you can install a 302 a 351 isnt a problem .....hood clearance will be though
Besides building engines, Prestige Motorsports also has a hot rod shop. They do a lot of their own install work so somebody there probably will know. Good luck and thanks for watching!
Kevin Guthrie
should go in with no problems - the cougar was even offered with the 351 Windsor when they were new.
Find the right parts and it's a bolt in, and will fit under a stock hood.
I'd go 408w
@@Motor-City-Mike not in 1967. Wasnt an option until 1969 but it will still fit.
Absolutely Gorgeous motor.
How much??????😁🙏❤
Website says "starting" At 8999
@@Da40kOrks Wrong engine, website says starting at 11.3k
Run your engines with a carb too while you have them on the dyno!
A Race Demon 1000 would be perfect on this setup
How much 4 that beast?
Why would you soak solid roller lifters?
I'm assuming to lube the rollers. Roller bearings don't like being run dry. Plus, not like it's going to hurt anything.
I agree with street racer, believe it or not steel will in a sense absorb the oil and not to mention the tiny little bearings in the rollers will take on oil... Hope this makes sense?
@@chickenmaster7069 -- You're either ignorant or stupid.. maybe both. Go find a used lifter, steel rocker arm, just about any internal engine part and heat it up. Clean it with brake cleaner first, then heat it. You will crap when you see how much oil seeps from the clean steel.
what is the cost of that build?
"Starting at 11.3k"
10.5:1 Shooting for running on 87?
Wish! That probably wouldn’t be wise. Nope, it will need to be at least 91 octane. But still available at practically any gas station. Thanks for watching!
I would not do it not 87 octane.
There werent a lot of piston options back when i did my build a few years ago. I wish these SRP were available then as they look nice & r actually 3cc smaller than the Mahle 26cc i used which neccessitated me milling the heads just to get up to 10.5 CR. Thats a good safe CR for street as the target car 4 the 1 i did will b n traffic n rod runs, etc in summer heat with A/C. And it made stupid low end torque anyway so did not need more CR.
That oil pan is ridiculous
I would like someone to explain to me how those type of connecting rods are stronger than the I beam type. Also how can those short skirt pistons keep straight in the bores for any length of time. I may be in my 70s but can still learn.
As-manufactured, H-beam connecting rods are commonly regarded as being weaker than their I-beam counterparts; however, the former often are contoured better for stroker applications. Partly, that has to do with the geometry of making an assembly fit inside the block (along with things like the camshaft), and partly that has to do with putting the right amount of mass at the right place in space, to facilitate the balancing of the overall assembly. At least, that's my take on it.
Burt, I hope learning doesn’t discriminate based upon age. If all goes well, I’ll turn 70 next year 👍.
What pump gas, 91 or 93 octane?
93. Here in North Carolina our options are 87, 89 and 93. Thanks for watching
Make little more power on e85. Mine made 505wheel through a 4k stall th400. Faster up top. Destroys cars that make 100wheel more than me. Th400 is drag king
You can still run 93 octane at 11.5:1 compression. But that's the limit.
Good luck with that.
@@luther250F I am on e85 now. The best fuel i ever used.
What's the price tag
Around 12k
I wonder how much this beast cost to build?
As much as it would if it were gm once you drop the stock block and heads it all costs an arm and a leg
A LOT! The 1 i did had Jesel shaft rockers, morel ultra pro lifter & smith bros 7/16" pushrods tho, so that was at least an extra $1000.
RP
Ford should take notes here, we need something akin to that in a late model Mustang. BOSS 429 folks !
I hope you used Isky Bushed lifters or this wont last.
This was my same line of thinking but the a**holes at isky wouldnt evn return my calls so i originally bought $1200 Crower bushing lifters (which were too small in dia & would have required installing lifter bore bushings in a brand new block) but i was cautioned against running bushed lifters on the street by a tech at morel who said he'd seen many sets of their bushed lifters (which he would have gotten more money from me on) returned locked up after street use so he steered me to the pressure-fed ultra pros which he said they've seen very few failures with in street use.
@@timchadwick8245 2 years later....how did the morels hold up for you?
I have a set in my 427...and I havent had any issues...but i dont put many miles on the engine.
screw a SHP... the ford racing block from CHI is WAY superior... and 100lbs less
I think the dart can go bigger
@@xmo552 yeah i think it can go .160 v the CHI .120
i'll take the weight savings tho
I always thought this was a big block engine.
It's not even a small block engine. small block and big block are chevy terms. This is a Ford windsor engine family.
@@AmericanThunder I've always heard people use big block and small block to describe Ford and Chrysler engines though...
@@SOU6900 it's very common but it's technically not correct
When i used 2 drag race my chevy buddies always said that about 351C because they had canted valves like a BBC "yeah - but thats a big block!" My reply "It's 351 cubic inches." Lol
@@timchadwick8245 The definitive way to verify if it's a big or small block is by putting it on a scale. lol
Compression is too low for that cam.
Nah, not really. I did basically the same engine with a very slightly smaller cam (253/258 .695" gross) same CR but it made WAY more tq & 679 hp. Only major difference i c is i fully ported the intake, not sure what went wrong with this 1
Naturally aspirated Fords with Hammerhead Hemi heads are making 1000-1200 on race gas; nobody knows where the limit is. Different people have different ideas concerning what is and isn't a street engine; most of the people pushing the idea of putting huge power numbers down on the street are making their power with race engines tuned to run on whatever fuel is considered "street gas" at that time -- usually, that's either:
(a) E85;
(b) Sunoco 100;
(c) AKI-93 (aka: "93 PON," "93 DON," "93-Octane" or some like appellation derived from the AKI format "((MON+RON)/2)" used in the US.
To get an idea how close are pump gas numbers and race gas numbers with Cleveland-style heads, check out: czcams.com/video/5Rz7paeKSOM/video.html
Use of octane booster is generally frowned upon, but pump blends are generally allowed, and I've never heard of anyone actually testing for the use of octane booster.
Granted, you can hang a license plate on a race car, and in many jurisdictions that (plus minimal liability insurance) is enough to make it "street legal," but just because the state will let you get away with that doesn't make it a street vehicle. Ditto for "it passed the HRM Power Tour" road test -- although that's at least a step towards weeding-out the most outrageously insane combinations.
If your engine won't hold a load against the dyno brake from at least as low as 1500-ish rpm, all the way to redline, it's a race engine.
Theyve done stuff like this before. it was called the pump gas drags by hot rod magazine
and yes, they did drain your tank and fuel was tested. they used rocket 93 octane and quarantined the cars overnight
then we saw who really had a fast pump gas car or who would grenade their engine. and quite a few people did. it ran from 2004 to 2007 and they had to do a cruise. you couldn't make the 20+ mile cruise, DQ'd
Its so funny to hear talk about where the oil should go first...
Ford was really confused about that..
All Ford 302-351w are priority main oiling from the factory! Whats funny is all the ignorant people that make a big deal about the aftermarket stuff being that way! Ford was not confused but Chevrolet sure was!
The factory production Cleveland blocks unfortunately didn’t have priority main bearing oiling. The Ford engineers responsible for designing the Cleveland block actually did a pretty good job with their original design. Apparently the bean counting financial geniuses at Ford decided it would save on production costs if the blocks were only machined for two main oil passages instead of the customary three typically used for priority oiling.
The lack of priority oiling didn’t become a problem until the early seventies when Pro Stock engine builders realized the superior flow potential of the Cleveland quench chamber four barrel heads, especially at extremely high rpm’s.
It didn’t take long before the aftermarket cam grinders figured it out too and suddenly stock block Clevelands were making huge power at 9000 rpm’s. With an inadequate oil supply, the first thing to go were the main bearings which was usually followed by total block destruction. Keep in mind that aftermarket blocks weren’t available yet so smart builders found feasible ways to deal with the problem.
It obviously worked because that’s when Bob Glidden began his domination in Pro Stock using production Cleveland blocks. I mentioned Glidden because his success set off the GM cry babies which forced the NHRA puppets to start changing their rule books in a pitiful attempt to factor out Clevelands from being competitive. The situation was also very similar in NASCAR circles too 🏆.
In a recent interview on DragBoss Garage, the legendary “Animal” Jim Feurer said that before he switched to the Boss 429 design, he would routinely spin his production based iron Cleveland engines to 10,500 rpm’s during match race competition. That’s amazing. I’ve owned some great 351 Windsor powered Mustangs but unfortunately they don’t have the testicular fortitude required to hang with a identically prepared Cleveland. That’s just my opinion and I’m sure that others will strongly disagree 🏁.
612 out of a 427? That’s it?
It is a naturally aspirated pump gas street motor that makes good torque down low, should have excellent throttle response off idle and will last for years without needing a rebuild. Just asking, how much power should it make?
A texas speed LS isn't that much more HP and they are using more compression and good EFI. This EFI system arrangement here was already tested by CHP, and it was the lowest performing of the 3 systems tested. So if they used an ELBOW/TB combo, they could have hit probably 630-640 in a small block package. The solid roller is un-necessary, though.
The 1 i did made 679 but with a bit of work to the heads, fully-ported intake, FAST TB & injectors & a Holley ECU & slightly smaller Bullet cam & better valve train. (Jesel shafts, 7/16" pushrods & better springs & titanium retainers). And probably also a happier dyno lol
The motor does have a front end on it but it would of been nice to see what a 850 qf dbl pump would of done
Build a 2jz please, I wanna see what kind of power you guys can get out of it
I love how he drives the pistons home without any protection whatsoever on the rod bolts.... clunk! 🤷♂️
There are no rod bolts. These connecting rods use cap screws, or bolts that insert in through the cap side. If you turn the crank so that the throw is away from the cylinder bore, you can install the rods and pistons into the cylinder bores without having to worry about contacting the rod throws on the crank. Then you can gently push the piston in the rest of the way with one hand while guiding the big end of the rod over the crank throw with the other hand. Thanks for watching.
The Horsepower Monster Thank you for the explanation. Love your build otherwise! That is one shittiń and then gettiń blue oval that’s for sure👍🏻
Torque units are 'lbs-ft' not 'ft-lbs'...
Everyone’s been saying Ft/lbs for a long time now and people are trying to switch it around because it’s probably correct. Ft/lbs sounds better I think.
Michael Paradisis : all I'm saying is 'Ft-lbs' is NOT torque whatever it "sounds" likes, in fact it is a unit of 'work'
Ain't much Ford in that Ford.
Gotta say... The only problem I see with your channel is that I don't get to hear these damn engines!!! Screw the quiet outside pipes on the dyno. Maybe you need to go outside and give us a fix!
It wants to be a LS so bad
UHHHHMMMM... it's the LS that shares a vast amount of it's design with a Ford. IT has nothing in common with the small block chevy.
This power can easily be made with a junkyard LS and without fuel injection
@Frank Bonazza III ..hahaha,right!...these LS nutswingers j just don't understand!
@Frank Bonazza III..🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Everyone always leaves out all the other parts to convert when they talk about how cheap and easy an LS is. Trans, driveshaft, mounts, harness, pcm just to name a couple grand worth. Ls swap whatever you want but you are not going to save money Doing so.
So essentially nothing on this was made by ford .😹😂
Geez louise...any build that goes anywhere near 600+ shouldnt have any factory parts and ur not going to make over 400hp with factory heads, intakes etc lmao. Altho i did a 406 SBC a few years ago that made 643hp on pump gas with an OEM 511 block (ONLY Chevy part on it) that somehow still hasnt split
Something's definitely wrong. Good size solid roller cam. But it only makes power to 6300 rpm??? That cam is GARBAGE...
More Ford junk it's a grenade there's only one way to make a Ford run is called Chevrolet
Stick to your 400hp GM crate motors.
Just stick to your junkyard LS has.