The big thing for me is DSP instructions. With DMA, 150MHz (likely more if you overclock it), 520kB RAM, and I2S, this chip looks perfect for live audio and radio data processing.
my suspicion: you can't get the 4 cores to run in parallel because there are no 4 cores. they just have different instruction decoders that use the same ALU. that would mean you have two cores but inside a core you have different components, one being the instruction decoder. and you put two different instruction decoders inside the core. also adding more and more cores does not scale up that well because they have to share the same memory bus. with two cores it is easier, because while one core is calculating, the other core is accessing the memory bus. with more cores and DMAs running, you need separate cache blocks to optimize memory access. that is expensive.
Not likely. M33 is a full core from ARM (rpi didn't develop it, they just integrated it in their desing). Hazard 3 is a similar story - didn't know anything about this core, but google search lead me to a github page. It's more likely that RISC-V was an afterthought and quite possible it's a "let's prepare people (and the whole ecosystem) for a better RISC-V in Pico 3" situation.
I wonder how much better the pico series will become. I personally use the pico in each of my projects. Imagine the pico 3 or pico 4 having quad core or even octa core with microcontroller level power consumption!!!!
There is absolutely nothing remotely ridiculous about the formula and it works out to an even number by design (leaving out any extra special purpose memory such as dual port USB buffers which I am guessing is how you get from 512K to 520K). Memory usually comes in powers of 2, 16K, 32K, 64K, 256K, 512K, etc. so log2 makes perfect sense, it is log2(2^x) = x. Thus by taking log2 you are just giving the exponent. And linear multiples would quickly blow through a one digit value:1,2,4,8,oops while log2() gives 10 different sizes you might actually use. And by dividing by 16K, they don't waste values on small sizes they would never make and leave more for big sizes. Besides, log2(16384) is already 14, which is more than one digit. Another way to express it is ram=2^(x+14). Or just start at 16K and double it the number of times specified in the digit.
I'll admit it is archaic knowledge, but I did rewind (lol more archaic knowledge) to make sure I didn't miss something making it ridiculous. It's just a super clean -h (human-readable) flag.
ESP32 is designed, produced, and controlled by a hostile foreign power. Trying to eliminate Chinese processors (especially those with networking), networking chips with bus mastering, firmware, and application software from my life, not increase it. At the very least, it tends to be very insecure and there could be malicious hardware.
@@markwhitisFirst thing you do is the ESP32 Flash as a first step. Almost every laptop has Chinese components in it and was more than likely manufactured in China. Buying no name Chinese networking equipment is a different story. Considering that you get a dual core 240Mhz processor, 512K RAM, 8MB PSRAM which does wonders for video applications, especially when using LVLG, 16MB flash, WiFi and BT for 5 dollars I have no idea why you would opt for one of these over and ESP32-S3 or C6 which is only single core but has Zigbee and is Thread/Matter compatible. Add the fact that they are the basis for ESPHome for Home Assistant, it's RISC so hardware and software is open source (to some degree) and I'm pretty sure someone would have found something malicious considering Home Assistant is the 2nd largest open source project. The world and ESPHome is becoming more popular since Nabu Casa bought it. I made a voice assistant for under 10 dollars with one I would be more concerned about the devices with data exfil capabilities written right into the terms of service (e.g. Google, Apple, Amazon).
1:11 if they make a new RP chip with a small update (same no.of cores, same type of cores, ram is not at least double previous, non-volatile memory is not at least double previous), they can't release it as it will have the same name.
ADC does work properly, but number of channels is still limited. 4 on the 60-pin chip, 8 on 80-pin. For comparison STM32G431 has 11 channels on 32-pin and 18 on 48-pin.
yeah saying stuffs like "promising applications" at 2:15 is really an understatement when most manufacturers even westerners switched at least partially to RiscV cores. Being ARM based, this is probably just an integrated isa interpreter to make the chip compatible to RV code. probably better to use ARM assembler directly.
I'd prefer more ADC pins too. Apparently they fixed the non-linearity problem (4 big spikes in the values) but there's still only 3 ADC pins wired to header pins, like on the original Pico.
I wonder if the RISC-V cores were added due to the die area required for bumps (im assuming its flip-chip) meaning there was a load of free die space, so they just chucked a couple extra cores in Edit: looked at die shots of rp2040 and it seems to be bond wire, so probably same here.
the RP2040 is already way too powerful for this application. Some STM32F103 or even a good old ATmega32u4 can do the trick. Some people used a genuine Uno or even the bare Atmega16u2 alone… or an Atmega32 with v-usb bit banging.
@@PainterVierax it is too fancy with small screen for retro gaming, I am planning to tapout my own chip too with only risc-v cores and some custom instructions. I am not interested in any non-riscv chips anyways :p
Looks like another case where I'll wait for other implementers... even the CHINESE! to make a better version of the actual board. RPi can't design a useful carrier board to save themselves. Noisy switching PSU, micro-usb connector, no reset switch... geez.
as i see, this board based on 2350A, and not have huge GPIO pins as in 2350B chip. i waiting stamp-xl on 2350B, and all my future projects pcb has waiting 2350B chips.
There are still enough microUSB Cable laying around and compatibility with the pico1 is worth a lot. I like USB-C but i don‘t see any advantage here, solder yourself if you want to😅
@@Buchstabenkrahn well, you'll need to dedicate a cable for your devboards, and probably for most project you build with them so better get inexpensive older connector. Personally, I use USB-B full size for such microcontroller projects as it's sturdy and plenty enough current and bandwidth for such applications. Unfortunately Rpi Pico doesn't come with pins or pads to expose the USB lines. Though like most devboards, it's better to make our own PCB to get access to every available i/o.
What idiotic naming scheme, that will resault i fewer upgrades. 512kb RAM id a joke and now we gave to wait like 5 years for a new upgrade, thanks to the idiotic naming convention.
I don't get it. You can't buy the microcontroller by itself, just this dev board so how would it actually slot into a product development environment? It seems like it's just for hobbyists to make projects. And why would anyone use it over an STM32?
There is an official statement regarding the Pico W 2: available by the end of the year, same RF chip.
Hopefully there will be an external antenna connector.
@@nutchanonkoommamuang5843 much needed
We need an rf connector on it. Even if it's just pads to put our own in.
The big thing for me is DSP instructions. With DMA, 150MHz (likely more if you overclock it), 520kB RAM, and I2S, this chip looks perfect for live audio and radio data processing.
That's what I was thinking as well. This might work out better for DSP purposes than the original Pico.
my suspicion: you can't get the 4 cores to run in parallel because there are no 4 cores. they just have different instruction decoders that use the same ALU. that would mean you have two cores but inside a core you have different components, one being the instruction decoder. and you put two different instruction decoders inside the core.
also adding more and more cores does not scale up that well because they have to share the same memory bus. with two cores it is easier, because while one core is calculating, the other core is accessing the memory bus. with more cores and DMAs running, you need separate cache blocks to optimize memory access. that is expensive.
My understanding at boot you are picking arm or risc for BOTH...no swappin hot nor odd match up.
It would make sense to reduce the silicon area to share blocks needed to built either core.
Not likely. M33 is a full core from ARM (rpi didn't develop it, they just integrated it in their desing). Hazard 3 is a similar story - didn't know anything about this core, but google search lead me to a github page.
It's more likely that RISC-V was an afterthought and quite possible it's a "let's prepare people (and the whole ecosystem) for a better RISC-V in Pico 3" situation.
I'm here for the first time and I really like the show and information. Hope to see more in the future ;)
My first Pentium computer was 133mhz
Pocket-change microcontrollers have caught up to 30 year old desktop computers, scary how fast things are moving!
very nice i was just about to patent a device that uses the pico, now i can also lock the software up inside it too
I wonder how much better the pico series will become. I personally use the pico in each of my projects. Imagine the pico 3 or pico 4 having quad core or even octa core with microcontroller level power consumption!!!!
There is absolutely nothing remotely ridiculous about the formula and it works out to an even number by design (leaving out any extra special purpose memory such as dual port USB buffers which I am guessing is how you get from 512K to 520K). Memory usually comes in powers of 2, 16K, 32K, 64K, 256K, 512K, etc. so log2 makes perfect sense, it is log2(2^x) = x. Thus by taking log2 you are just giving the exponent. And linear multiples would quickly blow through a one digit value:1,2,4,8,oops while log2() gives 10 different sizes you might actually use. And by dividing by 16K, they don't waste values on small sizes they would never make and leave more for big sizes. Besides, log2(16384) is already 14, which is more than one digit. Another way to express it is ram=2^(x+14). Or just start at 16K and double it the number of times specified in the digit.
I'll admit it is archaic knowledge, but I did rewind (lol more archaic knowledge) to make sure I didn't miss something making it ridiculous.
It's just a super clean -h (human-readable) flag.
"Which somehow comes out to a nice whole number." Yes, that is what floor(x) does 😊 Just cut it off at the decimal point.
still no RESET button and USB-C plug!!!
Who designs a new product and doesn't use USB-C?
Third party bords will have it if you need it so bad
there is a reason for it
@@stefanweilhartner4415what's the reason?
@@skmgeek a huge price difference
Presentation was awesome, thanks!
I still like the Waveshare ESP32 S3 Pico I got from Core Electronics. 240Mhz, efficient, PSRAM, wifi bluetooth, etc ... and AU$15ish
Uh-h-h, M33 cores... FPU, maybe? It sounds like an amazing digital controller for a switching power supply.
Can not compete with the ESP32, for $6 you get the same memory plus USB C, wifi and bluetooth.
Yeah I don’t really understand all of the hype about it, STM32 and ESP32 beat it by years and have both freertos and arduino compatibility
ESP32 is designed, produced, and controlled by a hostile foreign power. Trying to eliminate Chinese processors (especially those with networking), networking chips with bus mastering, firmware, and application software from my life, not increase it. At the very least, it tends to be very insecure and there could be malicious hardware.
Nah, with 4.5$ i can buy a ESP32-S3 dev board with maximum profile 8M PSRAM 16M flash.
I bought a ESP32-S2 and a Pico clone board with $1.85 each 🗿
@@susugar3338i also have esp32
But many people talking about its internal dac
What is your experience?
@@markwhitisFirst thing you do is the ESP32 Flash as a first step. Almost every laptop has Chinese components in it and was more than likely manufactured in China. Buying no name Chinese networking equipment is a different story.
Considering that you get a dual core 240Mhz processor, 512K RAM, 8MB PSRAM which does wonders for video applications, especially when using LVLG, 16MB flash, WiFi and BT for 5 dollars I have no idea why you would opt for one of these over and ESP32-S3 or C6 which is only single core but has Zigbee and is Thread/Matter compatible.
Add the fact that they are the basis for ESPHome for Home Assistant, it's RISC so hardware and software is open source (to some degree) and I'm pretty sure someone would have found something malicious considering Home Assistant is the 2nd largest open source project. The world and ESPHome is becoming more popular since Nabu Casa bought it. I made a voice assistant for under 10 dollars with one
I would be more concerned about the devices with data exfil capabilities written right into the terms of service (e.g. Google, Apple, Amazon).
The wireless model would be a great addition
Can't wait for the third-party boards with USB-C and reset button. I stopped using the original Pico immediately because of those two things.
USB type B or C, it comes down to cost saving and supply chain.
1:11 if they make a new RP chip with a small update (same no.of cores, same type of cores, ram is not at least double previous, non-volatile memory is not at least double previous), they can't release it as it will have the same name.
I would imagine if that were ever the case it would probably get a v2 appended to the name.
I don't mind that it doesn't have usb-c. I still use OTG cables for peripherals. So it's beneficial to me.
Is it still 12Mb/s USB or has it upgraded to USB 2.0 at 480Mb/s ?
Does the ADC work properly now ?
ADC does work properly, but number of channels is still limited. 4 on the 60-pin chip, 8 on 80-pin. For comparison STM32G431 has 11 channels on 32-pin and 18 on 48-pin.
@@dekutree64 - and only 3 available on header pins on this one, like on the OG Pi Pico.
According to the Pi foundation you can use either ARM cores or RISC-V cores, no mixing
Not true. Check the data sheet, section 3.9.2.
@@coder543yikes, I think someone messed things up in the PR. Thanks for the info
Thanks for the update video.
Great evolution!
Maybe the RiscV is there to queer the pitch of the other micro-controller chip manufacturers, why buy their products, if the Pico has it thrown in!
yeah saying stuffs like "promising applications" at 2:15 is really an understatement when most manufacturers even westerners switched at least partially to RiscV cores.
Being ARM based, this is probably just an integrated isa interpreter to make the chip compatible to RV code. probably better to use ARM assembler directly.
this board will be a better option for Scoopy osciloscope ? script can be use on this board also?
I'll wait until we have a dev board with USB-C and 16MB Flash.
I'd prefer more ADC pins too. Apparently they fixed the non-linearity problem (4 big spikes in the values) but there's still only 3 ADC pins wired to header pins, like on the original Pico.
I wonder if the RISC-V cores were added due to the die area required for bumps (im assuming its flip-chip) meaning there was a load of free die space, so they just chucked a couple extra cores in
Edit: looked at die shots of rp2040 and it seems to be bond wire, so probably same here.
Can u please make a video on how to get breadboard os onto the rpi pico
Fantastic!
Great intro
Great video 🔥
Thanks 👍
If it doesn’t have wifi let’s wait for the wifi version
Rial, but still inferior to esp32
wow can't wait to update my diy mouse and keyboard with this,
the RP2040 is already way too powerful for this application. Some STM32F103 or even a good old ATmega32u4 can do the trick. Some people used a genuine Uno or even the bare Atmega16u2 alone… or an Atmega32 with v-usb bit banging.
@@PainterVierax it is too fancy with small screen for retro gaming, I am planning to tapout my own chip too with only risc-v cores and some custom instructions. I am not interested in any non-riscv chips anyways :p
1 usd is a lot for a low cost board. you have to learn more on cost senses. the reset an usbc are only cents.
If I can save passwords and api keys in anything other than clear text, it's good enough for me!
Is there any gpu for RP ?
Where is type С?
Still none 😭
you cannot mix an arm core and a riscV core
Now if we could only buy one.
ESP32 rocks, Pi is for those who don’t understand tech
Looks like another case where I'll wait for other implementers... even the CHINESE! to make a better version of the actual board. RPi can't design a useful carrier board to save themselves. Noisy switching PSU, micro-usb connector, no reset switch... geez.
Pimoroni (UK) have released some alternatives based on the same chip.
Still micro-USB though
as i see, this board based on 2350A, and not have huge GPIO pins as in 2350B chip. i waiting stamp-xl on 2350B, and all my future projects pcb has waiting 2350B chips.
Very excited for that xl stamp as well, got some projects that need a huuuuge amount of GPIO pins.
USBC costs more and destroys compatibility with the existing hardware. There are plenty of USBC Pico boards, but not at this price point.
Sell a bunch of non-W first, then bring out the W version to get more $$$.
A lot of customers don't need wireless
Ble
My understanding is this is not the final product.
what can i do with this peanut ?
Can't wait to never use it and stick to esp32. Cheaper, better connectivity and more powerful.
RP1 is the chip set on RP4/5.
So not sure if the "2" means the number of cores.
floor(log_2(0))=-infinity
RP235-\infity is probably a little awkward.
Just doesn't roll off the tongue as well does it?
in the world of electronics, usb-c vs. micro-usb is a huge difference in price.
Looking at Mouser right now, $0.005 difference between Micro B and C so not sure why you're spamming these comments, are you a bot or just dumb?
There are still enough microUSB Cable laying around and compatibility with the pico1 is worth a lot. I like USB-C but i don‘t see any advantage here, solder yourself if you want to😅
usb C cables are also more expensive. It could make a difference for some people.
The pimoroni boards with USB-C are already available (and in my grubby mits)
@@PainterVierax if you buy a pile of „refurbished“ cables, sure. But i don‘t think that someone uses pico‘s on that scale.
@@Buchstabenkrahn well, you'll need to dedicate a cable for your devboards, and probably for most project you build with them so better get inexpensive older connector.
Personally, I use USB-B full size for such microcontroller projects as it's sturdy and plenty enough current and bandwidth for such applications. Unfortunately Rpi Pico doesn't come with pins or pads to expose the USB lines. Though like most devboards, it's better to make our own PCB to get access to every available i/o.
FASTER
My dumbass read it as good 2 ignore its looking like it
Haha maybe a little bit of a "don't dead open inside" situation going on.
20% price increae, outrageous!
I want to send mms texts connected to several providers and use several sim cards
Needing damage
What idiotic naming scheme, that will resault i fewer upgrades. 512kb RAM id a joke and now we gave to wait like 5 years for a new upgrade, thanks to the idiotic naming convention.
You're right... microUSB needs to die. USB-C ftw...
I don't care about python, python is a shit language.. Can I run standard C and/or Ruby I am happy.
There's a fork of Earl Philhower's arduino-pico for it, so yes, though it might still need more work.
Yes you can program this mcu in C or C++
Trashberry pi
I don't get it. You can't buy the microcontroller by itself, just this dev board so how would it actually slot into a product development environment? It seems like it's just for hobbyists to make projects. And why would anyone use it over an STM32?