HYPERBLOOM Is NOT Everything | Genshin Takes of All Time EP 1 | Genshin Impact
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- čas přidán 5. 06. 2024
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▬ Timestamps ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
0:00 - Intro
1:00 - Reality of hyperbloom damage
2:37 - Hyperbloom teams are not special
3:58 - The "Low Investment" Argument
5:32 - Closing thoughts
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Think Before You Act (Alhaitham Version) · tnbee
Fantasy Note · HOYO-MiX · 文驰
#genshinimpact #genshin #alhaitham #furina #spiralabyss - Hry
Thank you @Zy0x for the insightful commentary and 40 minutes of your stream time.
I think hyperbloom is a fantastic option for new accounts if you pull Shinobu early and/or start with a dendro 5 star on banner. If you have to farm deepwood anyway, you can get a cope gilded EM set (4 star goblet, 2pc 2pc, etc) for Kuki very easily at the same time. I apologize for the statement about the FLOP domain in the video, it came across very different from what I intended and does not represent my viewpoint very well. 😅
My actual point is that not everyone is starting on such favorable banners. The problem with aggressively recommending hyperbloom to everyone is that it misleads players into thinking early on that they MUST play dendro, or MUST spend resin in the deepwood domain, when in reality they could have a much more successful time simply pulling whatever 5 star is on banner that they are interested in, and spend their resin elsewhere that would make much more sense in the context of their account.
For the record, I am an Alhaitham main. My favorite team in the game is a hyperbloom team. If you start on an Alhaitham banner with Kuki, please go play hyperbloom. What are you doing otherwise. But if you start on, for example, a Wriothesley/Kazuha banner with Shinobu no where in sight, please don't. Don't treat hyperbloom as this cheat code for all new players. If you have access to it early, great. But don't try to force it. Low-investment doesn't matter if the characters you need for the low-investment team to work don't exist on your account.
Yep I agree. When I watched the video, I understood that the main point was just that nuance is important when recommending teams, not that "hyperbloom sucks" or whatever people seem to think you're talking about. Maybe they're just so into hyperbloom that any kind of nuanced criticism seem like a personal attack.
As for my own experience, when dendro first came out and everyone and their grandma were touting hyperbloom as the easy gateway to 36* abyss, I wasn't able to do it because my only real hydro unit was just one XQ that I needed for my hu tao team (my only other team), no yelan, no kuki, and DMC as the only dendro (this was before Nahida came out). I was able to 36* when I pulled Nilou though, even with DMC + Barbara + Collei, though probably also because that Abyss was tailored for Nilou.
Hyperbloom is really good at getting you at least to the point of clearing f12 if not to 36starring it. You don't need to start on any specific banner or anything, even some barbara/lisa/dmc/collei would still work to get you to the point of clearing with lvl 1 talents and 3 star weapons. Like obv it's only useful for newer players and newer players would likely struggle to pilot such a team but that's basically the highest damage team you can make out of your starter chars. You basically don't need to pull any char at all to clear one side of the abyss somewhat comfortably with actually low investment both resinwise and primogemswise.
@@pbkeyitrue. IMO my reccomendation for new player is you MUST build one hyperbloom team for starter. The argument is :
1. Artifact, you don't really care on stat except EM on triggering characters. Other team you really care on crit ratio, er, em, hp/def, atk that i would assure you won't get what you want in the first 3 month. Heck even I still not get decent stat i want in 2 years playing.
2. Talent, you don't need upgrade talent for ever characters to the max. For example as HB trigger kuki or any electro player doesn't need upgrade their talent, lvl 1 for begining is enough. Hydro applicator doesn't need upgrade too, even xingqiu for begining i would argue just build enough ER then you settled.
Name it better team for new player that perform decent without 'proper' investment outside Hyperbloom, ICANT. After build Hyperbloom team then i would reccomend ANY team you like since you don't spend so much resources on Hyperbloom team. Just after that you can talk about beating abyss. 🍻
I can sorta see your point but it’s important to remember that a lot of HB rhetoric assumes you are trying to build two teams to clear. Using that current non dendro banner is smart yes, but you can also still use HB with four stars to slap together a good enough ST dmg team.
No fucking shit. Congratulations on stating the obvious.
Stun-lock incident aware
i died at “one of the three xingqius”. never have i seen a more based take PepeLaugh
Running triple Xingqiu with Jean is funny af.
Is the third furina
play triple xq +kokomi instead@@user-yn7bz5mn5g
Bro its true it affected my friends to me to use hyperbloom team....i never used hydro and dendro char since today....i usually use electro+pyro electro+cyro electro+geo electro and anemo+electro+pyro+cyro.....
mf got that twitch emotes accent
I somewhat agree, but what makes hyperbloom "cheap" is the domain itself. Deepwood and Gilded are two really good sets that can be used in a lot of different characters. In other words, farming that domain is "efficient" because you're effectively farming for several characters at once.
Not to mention you don't need flop set to make a good hyperbloom that meets the floor dps to clear abyss. Any combination of 2p2p for EM is good enough. There is no comp except Nilou comp (when abyss dont counter her or bossing) can clear abyss cheaper than hyperbloom comp. I do a meme run with nahida yaoyao xq kuki 2nd half this abyss with extreme low investment and still have 0 problem clear 2nd side less than 1:30 min (nahida on +0 DW set, XQ only have ER sand on fav and Kuki on 2p2p with 900EM only - my normal kuki is like 1100 EM)
this, to me its the same for rational, and to a lesser extent furi teams
for rational and other national variants 50-75% of the team uses the emblem set for hb 50-75% of the team uses either deepwood or dreams set
for most of the fontaine dps(hell, most of the dps if they have furina in the team) cast+furina/yae/fischl they use either gt or mh
@@nicodemostrabalho6991rational is a bit different since all 3 characters that can use emblem on the team need similar stats, and none can use shimenawa, so it’s not as efficient as dw/gd for hyperbloom, where the trigger needs em, while the dendro can use a normal dps build.
While correct, the same exact argument also applies to other teams (e.g. furina teams and golden+marechaussee, hutao 2hydro and emblem+shime).
@@zzzuuuzzz6706 Yeah this is a point that the video glosses over, which is that due to the diminishing returns on EM, it is not actually that important to have your Hyperbloom trigger be on the "right" set. Due to the fact that EM has true diminishing returns on reaction damage, once you're >800 EM, the marginal gain/loss in damage from having slightly more or less EM is really really low. At high EM, EM is only worth about 1-1.5% DPS per substat, while crit subs on crit builds are generally 2-2.5%.
You can even use 4-star EM mainstats and actually lose a pretty small amount of damage. Compared to a full 5-star set, using a 4-star EM circlet + a 4-star EM goblet is only 94 less EM. At around 800-900 EM, losing 94 EM is only ~7% loss in damage, which is tiny compared to what most DPSes will lose by using filler 4-star artifacts in any slot.
It's true that it's annoying to build 5-star full EM sets, but at "low investment" the loss in performance from using 5-star EM artifacts on the "wrong" set (or even 4-star EM artifacts) is actually pretty low, and 4-star EM artifacts are relatively easy to get. In general, full EM transformative reaction DPS has a demonstrably flatter scaling curve than crit-based DPS does.
One thing I didn't hear mentioned is elemental checks. If you have an electro, dendro, and hydro character on your team you have a way of effectively breaking 6 types of shields. The last slot being flexible allows you to tailer it even further to your needs, moreso than any other team archetype.
If you choose hyperbloom as one of the teams you invest in, that is one side of the abyss solved for every rotation, meaning you need to build less characters overall if your goal is only to full clear.
Totally true about the abyss. I don't use any of the characters I used in hyperbloom for my main team anymore, but since they're all decently built and can do good damage together I usually use them for the other half. I don't think I'll ever full clear it due to my poor character building capabilities, but I can get 300 primos every two weeks from the 9th and 10th floors!
Hoyoverse only did this once with hydro electro and pyro heralds in the same floor and it was pre dendro and swirls when grouped literally destroyed their shields
Put pyro as your 4th and you break almost any shield easyly besides the Wolflord heads
Personally, I think this is where it fails. It's not enough of any one element (unless you have powerful 5*'s) to break current shields, etc.
Every abyss I look at the harder floor with single target and assign hyperbloom to that side, and basically go of what shields are in the other side. Like in the current abyss I have ayato national first half and Raiden Nahida xingqiu Yelan hyperbloom second half. I completely BLITZ the second half oonga boonga style and then the other first half actually takes a bit of skill. Once I have my 36 stars I then take other teams in there just for fun.
i strongly desagree with the take that building hyperbloom team is equivilant in investment as a crit scaling, this is one of the worsts and dumbest takes i ever seen on genshin, whothever the rest of the video is valid tho and makes a lot of sense
Building full em on a hyperbloom trigger is most definetly easier than farming talent materials and praying to rngesus for decent artifact rolls. While hyperbloom doesn't outright negate the need for some vertical investment, it definetly raises the baseline dmg of a team more than any other reaction that you can build your team around as well as for a fraction of the cost, which is where I think the hype around it was formed. While hyperbloom is certainly overhyped to a degree and lategame there are many teams that can contend with it in single target as well as straight up beat it in aoe, the fact is that its dmg to resin cost ratio blitzes any other team. Building your standard hyperbloom trigger on full em while having the other teammates on nothing but recharge for burst uptime(assuming they need their burst) is a lot cheaper than building crit, recharge, atk/def/hp/em on 3 additional characters.
Yes and no. As far as talents and weapons go its equal investment. What total investment all comes down to is pure luck. My Nahida took me 6 weeks of pure farming to get 1 em set, then on a whim for my girlfriend I farmed 3 runs for yelan and got 5 artifacts that put her Yelan on the top 8%. it's all comes down to luck.
@@magekazinyou dont event need any em on nahida with hyperbloom build, just put whatever as long as it is a depwood set
@@magekazin u cant use ur own personal opinion and luck to justify the strength of the team. if some1 lucky and gets all early 5* and win all 50/50, can he then claim genshin is the most generous game among all gachas? obviously not. em pieces are generally twice as rare as the standard dmg ones, but im pretty sure for most ppl not ever 1 in 2 of ur pieces roll well in crit or other good substat. so statistically speaking, full em is much easier and resin efficient to build
@@ssybanana2930I don't have Nahida and was planning to build dmc for a hyperbloom team with kuki, Yelan and Xingqiu, after watching the vid I'm pretty conflicted on going through with it......Can you give me some advice on what i should do???
@@jackr.ripper601 if u are quite new, dont have alot of character n looking to challenge abyss. then yes building hyperbloom is great. another point in favour is that hyperbloom team characters are often use in other team, so u wouldn't feel like u build a char u cant use elsewhere and just a hyperbloom slave. xq/yelan is used in almost all taser, national, vape team and many more
Thanks to this video, zyoxx is still stunlocked to this day lmaoo
STUNLOCKED LORE
I think the main reason why hyperbloom is such a recommended comp is because there are an insane amount of variations you can play it so depending on the characters you enjoy playing or just like in story, you can use, and no matter the variation it often has good enough damage output to clear the abyss. It’s not always about damage
Very true. I made a hyperbloom team as one of my earlier, planned out team comps (as opposed to a bunch of characters thrown together) and it was really easy and fun to play! I got to use a lot of the newer characters I really liked and it worked out really well.
Hyperbloom is also really easy to understand. A lot of character building or team comp advice and information goes straight over my head so building teams is never a priority for me, but hyperbloom is as simple as electro, dendro and hydro in the same place at the same time.
Characters that you can play
4star: kuki xqsu traveler+collei
5star: raiden alhaitham nahida yelan baizhu cyno
......HOLY FUCK 9 CHARACTERS (ye i count collei and mc as 1 because no fucking way yo ass is playing only 1 without 5 star dendro)😂
@@ziebus904 i play hyperbloom with ayaka...how did your sorry ass did not know freeze characters work?? Are u even a real genshin player?
as ziebus said just above, i dont think that's true in the slightest,
Hyperbloom for me is so popular because it's the most recent competitive archetype that compete with archetypes we had since the beginning of the game while being easy to comprehend and relatively easy to build (quicken-based teams are arguably less)
Hyperbloom is actually quite restrictive because only Kuki and Raiden can effectively trigger it in any situation (yae and on field electro like keqing and cyno can too but too a lesser extent or a more niche one)
and it requires at least a good hydro and a good dendro enabler
Vape teams in comparison are astronomically more diverse, with hypercarry vapes, nationales, internationales, and newer forward vapes (furina/mona)
I could argue that even some hypercarry teams (scara HC, raiden HC) are more diverse (assuming you have the HC character in question of course)
Yup, because hyperbloom needs 3 elements type at once (dendro, hydro, electro). The party also can generate spread, aggravate, electro-charged.
Also hydro breaks pyro shield, electro breaks cryo Shield, hydro shield? Hyperbloom will take care of it, electro shield? Spread will drain enemies HP faster than the shield itself iirc
I think you're missing the point of hyperbloom by looking at such heavily invested hyperbloom teams. Hyperbloom has a low ceiling. It doesn't scale well to heavy investment. What makes hyperbloom special is that you don't need to do much to create a strong team. You don't need 3 5-star EM artifacts and EM substats. 4-star artifacts are fine. You don't need to level anyone's talents at all. You don't need to level up your non-trigger characters or worry about their artifacts beyond having enough ER. You really can just quickly throw together some half-built, bs team, and while it will be very far from ideal, it will still hit hard-- much harder than any other team would with such little investment. That's why hyperbloom gets recommended so much. Of course there are better teams out there, but none give so much bang for your resin.
I use kazuha in a lot of my teams, so hyperbloom is actually just one of those non-kazuha teams I can be happy with running.
EM Kazuha swirling electro makes of the hyper loom teams
@@OlexiVR nah he sucks in hyperbloom. why u ll swirl kukis e to make her do 100 more dmg per e or raidens e?
Yeah, hyperbloom basically gets rid of the need to group the enemies.
I agree,@@TechTesting . I never use Kazuha in Hyperbloom. I use Kuki, Alhaitham, Nahida, plus Yelan/Furina/Xingqiu, and leave Kazuha for e.g. Tartaglia National or mono-pyro teams.
I really think Hyperbloom's streegth comes in the comfort and almost autopilot-esque gameplay. Despite Hyperbloom being mostly singletarget, I don't hesitate to use it even for AOE content because it's just so smooth to play. You're right though, it is simply a part of a puzzle and allows for more choices for team building. While I generally disagree with this video, I really love your editing style. Keep it up!
Sure, it's autopilot with some combination of Nahida/Baizhu and Raiden/Kuki, or maybe Sucrose/Fischl/Xingqiu/Dendro, but a new player's Dendro options are Traveler and Collei, their Hydro options are Traveler and Barbara, and their trigger is Lisa. That's a lot less autopilot because 2/3 of the reaction isn't just happening (except when DMC and Lisa Bursts are going at the same time, and that has ER needs) and you actually have to care about the order elements are applied to some extent.
@@Uryvichklisa trigger is almost never recommended, and only at c4, which new players don’t have anyway. The trigger for new players is generally kuki, if they can get her. Xingqiu can be obtained from the starglitter shop, for hydro application, and traveler is pretty decent for dendro application.
Hyperbloom is mobile friendly
@@ichlebeindermoderne6939 Completely forgot about that, yes. When I'm forced to do commissions on mobile at 20fps Hyperbloom is always the go-to (though Nahida alone is frankly enough anyways.)
@@MicrocarpaRutaceae that on top, cheap team. 1 5star rest is 4star! Like childe team, childe + 4stars (national)
and that is why I love this team comp, I don't need to think, just press buttons
Well made vid! Looking forward to future uploads
Thank you Jamie! Big fan of your work good sir. I'm enjoying being lit up in the comments rn... Tbf I asked for it haha
back when not having many units i really only valued hyperbloom a lot because it is a "non bennett" required team
Couldn't agree more. One of the main reasons I invested a lot into Hyperbloom viable characters literally was that I didn't get a Bennett until AR50+.
To be fair though it would be different for someone who had a Bennett and neither Raiden or Kuki.
It always comes down to what units people have and what they want to do with their accounts.
On my no-wish account, hyperbloom ends up being one of the best options due to lacking units like bennett and other key elements / buffers
The 8 units (excluding events) you get for free are MC, Amber, Lisa, Kaeya, Barbara, Lynette, Xiangling, and Collei. I've only been able to think of 3 pairs of teams with them, and I believe hyperbloom is probably one of the strongest teams when you assume the remaining 4 characters need to function as a team too
Edit: i forget to add my point in writing everything here. For new players, or players with few characters, hyperbloom is probably one of the easiest ways to access high damage as quickly as possible, and there's *many* many units that can function as hyperbloom units (although it may feel awkward with units like DMC, Barbara, Lisa)
(he doesn't have 3 em main stats thats why he made this video to cope)
truly one of the take of all times
too bad they removed dislike button
yeh so i can dislike this meaningless comment
People recommending the hyper team is not because they tell you to solely rely on hyperbloom, *but the side perks of the team such as being able to run taser for example and being able to have multiple types of elemental damage as well*
Same with a burgeon team, it procs the brning reaction on top of vaporizing enemies
Probably not "same" Burgeon. Burning is not really a good reaction unless you pair it with units that can vape or melt off the burning aura.
What you said about Hyperbloom is true though. Electro-charged, Aggregate and Spread are all really useful and a 4th unit of a different element can add even more useful reactions (or facilitate the existing one's depending on their application).
If you already have burning on enemies it should shred their hp bit by bit since it ignores defenses
Then you can proc vape by triggering bloom
@@Succubus_Loli Sadly that's not quite how it works for most teams. Usually when you have burning and apply hydro onto the burning enemy you get a vape, but no bloom because most hydro characters don't have skills that apply enough hydro on a single hit to trigger both vape and bloom.
Burning itself only does good damage if the character triggering it has a lot of EM. There are teams built around reliably triggering burning with characters that build 1000 EM, but generally those just do the bare minimum amount of damage to 36* Abyss while good Burgeon or Hyperbloom teams can do far better.
Burgeon can work well if you add a character with a completely different element to weaken the burning aura, but usually these teams are still worse than Hyperbloom in single target and a little better against multiple enemies.
Burgeon requires a lot more team-building knowledge, specific characters and gear while being only really good against multi enemies. Because of all that I wouldn't really recommend it to a newer player unlike Hyperbloom.
@@celektus The burning is actually pretty good but considering the limitations for who we have for burgeon, it limits it to a few so not many can practically harness it. Wriothesley for burgeon driver really helps for Thoma causing burning as well as the fridge factor, but also Neuvillette and Furina benefit off of the burning, especially since it is so much harder to buff HP% scaling since they are limited to just hydro resonance, resistance shred, and dmg bonus.
Ok... I got recommended this video, and first thing, I really like your editing. I hope you continue to make controversial takes in the future lol 🤣
There's some things in the video I don't agree with, firstly the amount of damage hyperbloom contributes (1:35), I think 500k per rotation is maybe a little too conservative? I've seen most sheets and other sources point to around high 600k at the conservative end to 800k+ if you go balls deep. I don't think that's something to be underestimated, that's about as much as a DBane C0 Hu Tao does in 2 Hydro.
As for damage distribution (2:00). I think it's fair to say that HBloom does not contribute a vast majority of the teams damage, and if someone believes that then they're misinformed. However, compared to a lot of teams where talent damage contributes basically 100% of team damage (aka freeze or vape teams), that split damage between HBloom and talent damage does make it a lot less reliant on ADC/talent builds which are more expensive to build resin-wise on average. In other words if you have shit crit artifacts on HT/XQ/YL your team is just going to suck, but if you have ehh-400 or 500 EM on your Kuki and shit crit artifacts on XQ/YL, your team is going to suck a lot less.
That brings me to the lower investment point (4:20). The beauty of HBloom and building your trigger is that because only EM matters and EM has diminishing returns, you don't need to go balls deep farming one domain or focus on min-maxing your EM like you need to do all your offensive stats building a talent character.
In other words, missing one EM roll is a lot less important than missing a crit roll. Set bonus are also a lot less valuable and are super flexible, you don't need to farm FLOP to the extent like you do Emblem for Raiden or MHunter for Neuvillette. You wouldn't dare put a 4 star hydro goblet or HP sands on Neuvillette, but genuinely putting a 4 star EM goblet or sands on Kuki isn't that bad, you only miss 50 EM. So yeah if you go all in like Zajef on FLOP for EM Raiden, sure getting a 1100 EM set is probably about as hard as getting a great offensive set for a talent scaler, but you don't need to do that and the damage loss from going from 1000 EM to 600 EM is a LOT less than going from, say, 40 offensive subs to 20 offensive subs on a crit talent scaler. That all means that you probably can even get a half-decent EM set passively just by farming Emblem for your Yelan/Xingqiu or Gilded for Haitham and such.
So yeah, that's that! I do agree btw that once you get to a certain point (not necessarily even vertical investment but just account maturity) hyperbloom's benefits become less noticeable and it just becomes another very good team in a collection of other very good teams. I don't consider 2 Hydro HB or Haitham QB to be a tier above my Yae Aggravate or HT 2Hydro teams for example. But I do feel like you kinda understated the resin efficiency of building a HBloom trigger and the difference in resin cost between building, say, Kuki vs Hu Tao to do the same amount of damage.
Holy shit, thank you so much for a lengthy, sane comment.
I should clarify that if an account pulls Shinobu early, they absolutely should consider hyperbloom as more of a priority, especially when someone like alhaitham, Nahida, or even a hydro character is on banner and they are interested in pulling them. I have no problem with recommending hyperbloom if it makes sense with context of the account, I just despise the way that it is seen as the default. People tend to tunnel vision into it early when they simply do not have the units to play it, dump all their resin into the deepwood domain, and try to force it with subpar units, when the marechaussee domain for example align much better with the units on their account and with what they are interested in playing longer term.
TLDR: Consider hyperbloom if you actually have the units for it. If not, it's faster and probably more interesting to build something else than to wait for shinobu and the good dendro characters to come back on banner.
@@butterfer0808 Thanks for responding! Yeah, I think for a brand new player it's honestly kind of difficult to generalize one specific path simply because it really depends on who's on banner and who you get in terms of pulls.
I think it's definitely a trap to tunnel-vision on building the crap out of your HBloom trigger by focusing on FLOP and/or Deepwood over all else because I think at that point you're throwing away one of the reasons to go for HBloom in the first place. IMO Hyperbloom is one of the best teams to treat as a "garbage disposal", aka a place to recycle the leftover artifacts like EM circlets/goblets or randomly rolled 100+ EM flowers (lmao) that you got in the process farming for your talent scalers. Like I remember when I first kitted out Kuki I spent a grand total of 0 resin, I just yoinked some random rainbow EM circlet, goblet, and sands I locked up before and got up to around 700-ish EM which due to the logarithmic scaling of EM ends up performing pretty similarly to 1000 EM anyways.
I still do think hyperbloom is *more* likely to be a good path than most other teams because of that artifact flexibility, and I also think it being easy to play (at least the Nahida/Kuki/XQ variant) is really useful to new players. But I do think that forcing it on an account can be detrimental e.g. like if you have Lyney, Xiangling, and Bennett but bench them in favor of Collei + Barbara + Lisa HBloom. And Genshin is RNG enough that just because a team is more likely to be a good choice for an account doesn't mean it's always a good choice for a specific player.
@@aerohydra3849bruh by sheets, 2 hydro hyperbloom IS better than 2 hydro hu tao and yae aggravate (C0 or C1 hu tao. I think C1R1 with yelan 2R1 will always be better than double hydro hyperbloom always).
Buy yeah they're in the same tier. Also question, wdym hyperbloom isn't the majority of the damage in its teams? Isn't it the majority in alhaitham hyperbloom with xinqgui?
@@putent9623I meant vast majority which I think of as hypercarry level (aka like >70% damage contribution), which hyperbloom generally doesn't have. I do think hyperbloom has significant damage contribution though, usually around half of the total team damage, and that was honestly one of my criticisms of the OG video, that it downplayed hyperbloom's damage contribution too much.
I feel like this is kind of analogous to how people reacted to the statement "Fischl carries Aggravate" or "Xiangling carries National". In both cases I think the idea behind why TCers said these was because it is incredibly unintuitive for new players to understand that an off-field 4 star could contribute as much damage as their on-field driver, and the nature of most players is to neglect off-field damage dealers in favor of throwing everything at their on-field carry. But I think some people took it too far and saw it as "Fischl/Xiangling does ALL the damage and Keqing/Yae/Childe are pure drivers without any contribution", which is also wrong.
I feel like in all these cases there's a bit too much overcorrection going on, like I've seen people then downplay Fischl/Xiangling/Hyperbloom a bit too much as a counter-argument. If we take a step back, IMO the fact that an off-fielder is contribtuing 30%, 40%, 50% of your total team damage is still genuinely insane, it's not something you see in most other games and goes against our intuition as to how teams work. I think us veterans have gotten a little too used to how things work in Genshin and do take these things for granted, but I remember playing ToF for a little bit and, man, 4 stars and off-field damage dealers barely existed in that game.
@@butterfer0808 I am a Shinobi simp so I saw it as default.
hyperbloom is a lot faster to build than main dps that needs crit, the increase in dmg between 750 to 900 em is low
not only that but er requirements for top hyperbloom teams are non existant
and hyperbloom has most elemnetal checks in same team bar non so if u build one ur set for most enemies
plus if u farm dendro set ur covering most of team chars exept hydros
this entire essay sounds like it was written by a vape stan
genshin players stop having THE WORST TAKES EVER
I'll stop recommending Hyperbloom when people stop recommending National and Xiangling for everything.
I initially wanted to include national in this too, but then realized that would make the video too disorganized. Soon, brother. Soon.
2:27 me clearing one half with this exact team. But I 100% agree, hyperbloom isn't the magical reaction that fixes all your problems, it's just another strong reaction that you build your team around similar to vaporize and freeze.
Am I the only one using venti on hyperbloom? The homing arrow isn't just a single target, it has little small aoe.
Great video, I've been thinking the exact same thing of; hyperbloom is overhyped. I do however have to disagree with the low investment thing, yes EM/EM/EM can be rough to get but to clear abyss you only need that character built, the dendro say DMC can run ER sands + any 4pc deepwood pieces, and say a Xingqiu only needs good enough ER. So you essentially only build 1 character properly.
Everything is overhype against Xianglin
4 stars artifacts exists and they are not that bad, 2piece 2piece with one 4 star em piece is super easy to get and still helps a lot when you are trying to clear abyss for the first time
EM/EM/EM is pretty easy to get, with a caveat: that you don't care about substats. It is substats that make artifacts a pain to get. For your typical atk/crit based build, for example, you're looking at wanting crit x2, plus usually attack, EM, and/or ER. Getting the right main stat, with those substats, and the having it roll into the right substats... that's all makes for a low percentile chance. And this is a large part of what makes hyperbloom so easy to get. All you need for Raiden or Kuki, at the cheap end, is that EM main stat. Worst case scenario for Kuki, you are after a single substat: HP%.
Now, if you are talking about getting EM on a character like Nahida, that's another matter. Because there, you want 2x EM, but you need those EM pieces to have a bunch of specific substats as well. Then it becomes a pain. But if the EM main stat is all you need? Easy.
@@Axterix13 farming full em for Anemo units (Kazuha, Venti, Sucrose, C6 Sayu) was hard back in the day because they all required quite a bit of ER on the substats. Not to mention that the VV domain was also the Maiden domain, so you had a bunch of trash artifacts you couldn’t strongbox into more VV pieces. With the popular hyperbloom triggers (Kuki and Raiden), they all just as high of EM as physically possible. Now, that’s only one character on the team.
I don't think "caveat" is the right term. It contradicts your whole statement.
Also I'm just going to mention how shit it is to not have Nahida. I swear every content creator just forgets a lot of people don't have her a throw a " but dendro mc is a fine replacement" at the end. It isn't. DMC is no where close to what Nahida does. I'd argue that the fast majority of dendro teams are just Nahida teams.
You word this like Dendro Traveler doesn't help at all
Dendro Traveler isn't Nahida but they're also not useless
Acting like they can't be slotted in instead of Nahida when you don't have her just because they don't perform at nearly the same level misses the entire point
You can build very decent dendro teams without Nahida, but Nahida is also EXTREMELY important for dendro teams; these two things can both be true
I am liking this video since till this day he(Zyox) is still STUNLOCKED and makes a lot of funny reactions
The biggest thing I hate is any DPS character dropping and the chorus across the internet of "well just do Nahida, Kuki, XQ and have them drive Hyperbloom"
It's just like a broken record and I'm tired of it.
...that said I like that I can use DMC during archon quests and not be immediately useless if combat happens
Exactly
I get that hearing it over and over can get annoying, but it is still true. I question if this vid was made from that same frustration, because it comes off contrarian. It gave nuances to hyperbloom yet didn’t really disprove its status or convince anyone that it’s not worth recommending
True, I hate hearing that too because it was really good for me even before nahida came. I used dmc, kuki and kokomi or dmc, kokomi and Lisa. And it still worked well. It's not like only that team works. I don't get why people say that
"OP's Poorly Disguised Zajef Callout"
I actually love Zajef lol. But yea I can't stand his fridge takes lmao
@@butterfer0808 Me neither😅
If you happen to have Kuki then the Hyperbloom team is pretty good for new players since you can just get Instructor set for Kuki, which is VERY easy to get, then you stack ER for DMC and get yourself a free Barbara. While it is not recommended to build a hyperbloom with the units which weren't intended for Hyperbloom, but for an AR 45 and below, being able to deal over 20000 damage every 2s is very impressive and it will help them a lot to progress further into the storyline. Plus, it is pretty nice to role-playing as MC.
Roll for better units later on is their choice anyway.
what's the point having less EM on Kuki (coz instructor is 4* set so less stats) to allow her sharing EM to team mates who do not benefit that much from EM.
better slap instructor on any other team mate, and use 5 stars EM artefacts on Kuki (like 2x wanderer troupe for extra EM bonus)
@@christopheantoine5472 "FOR AR 45 AND BELOW".
If you dive into artifact farming this soon in the game you might as well play a new account.
90% players gonna have a full em instructor set when they reach 45 anyway so they should use it until they have a better 5 star artifacts.
Hyperbloom and ZhongDong is what have made this game playable for me at AR45 back in the days.
love your vids man. currently trying to get furina for my alhaitham team hopefully i win the 50/50
hyperbloom has an extremely good damage to investment ratio. but its peak damage is lower when fully invested
playing hyperbloom in my alt is the best thing cuz its the best thing for low investment and i stand by it. For my main account , Nahida, Raiden, Kokomi and Kazuha can clear floor 12 and in my alt, Nahida, Raiden, Barbara, Diona can clear floor 11 in which i dont have an em main stat 5 star artifact still cuz i dont do domains in that.
For overworld you could use any (non-set) 4* artifacts for just one trigger character and have 700-ish EM dealing ~20k(x2). This does make it cheap to build (pre abyss at least)
The main advantage of bloom reactions is to act as an "anti-swirl". Even if you encounter enemies immune to hydro or electro (or pyro in the case of bourgeon), you will still be able to make a consistent amount of dendro damage for most of the content, including abyss, without changing you comp. While electro-charged or overloaded, as notable examples, still deal electro and pyro damages.
"Most of your damage will not come from hyperbloom".
Me with 49k-98k(c2 Nahida) hyperblooms and 38k aggravated.
And what is this bs about hyperbloom not being cheaper?
You can keep nahida or yao yap at lvl1, take lvl1 barbara. Just lvl up Raiden or Kuki and slap all EM stats without upgrading your talets. Boom 40k+ damage by investing only in 1 character and almost no farming for artifacts.
how tf is your nahida triggering hyperblooms and aggs
@@jstern25 end
@@jstern25 who told you Nahida is the one doing damage and aggravates?🤣👍
@@jstern25 did he said Nahida is triggering the hyperblooms/aggravates or her c2 makes the hyperblooms deal much more dmg than aggravates?
Actually what make Hyperbloom so good is because of Nahida. Probably the strongest or second strongest character in this game, who can do big damage, dendro res shred and crowd control at the same time.
Who would you say rivals her? Being the BIS dendro unit with acces to the most broken reaction in the game pretty much cements her as the best hands down.
@@shadowpriest2574xinqui (just kidding)
@@shadowpriest2574 probably Furina lmfao
@@Fufolium I don't think she is that good .
@shadowpriest2574 Nahida isn't universal though, only used in dendro teams. Furina is part of the best element in the game and is very universal, where she can be used in almost any team comp where a lot of shes bis. not better in all situations but easily argued to be up there with nahida. (also yelan kinda broken too)
The three Xingqius threw me off my bed bruh...that was hilarious and true at the same time LOL🤣🤣
Hyperbloom is the reason why I could get my first 36 stars in Abyss in 2 years .... after trying all the traditional Raiden National, Ayaka freeze High Investment teams.
its easy to build(that deepwood and gilded dream really enable the build) and not many enemies immune to dendro, so it have great coverage. great for bossing. its a solid build with less time investment.
The amount of raw damage hyperbloom provides to a team makes its floor extremely high, as well as having a ceiling that is still incredibly high compared to talent/crit teams. For example I just ran the most barebones hyperbloom team possible with Xinqiu (lvl 1 sac sword R5/ER sands), Yao Yao (lvl 50), Kuki (lvl90 830EM on Tenacity artifacts) and Dendro MC with a mixed set and was able to 8* floor 12 second side. If I had added Deepwood memories set to the team I likely would've gotten 9* since the dendro chicken resists dendro so much.
Each chamber took an average of 1:50 to complete but remember this is literally the most barebones setup I could do. Replacing DMC for nahida, giving Kuki FLOP, giving Xingqiu a lvl 90 weapon, and adding a deepwood user to the team would improve the time significantly.
Lvl 90 character isn't a barebones build, 💀💀
@@Sonnenblume997 what are you talking about? Only ONE character in the team is required to be level 90 and the rest of the team is inconsequential. Leveling a single character to 90 isn't a big commitment at all either taking at most a week to do.
Please remember that abyss is currently the hardest content in the game, yet I was able to full star it by capitalizing on a single reaction on a VERY suboptimal build. Kuki was literally the only one that was able to contribute any meaningful damage since I gave everyone else lvl 1 weapons.
@@XxDustyDougxX still, you called a max investment thing, leveling a character to lvl 90 as being "bare bones" that's not what it means. Even if the rest aren't invested in. If you group 4 people and 3 of them are dirt poor and 1 is a multi-billionaire you don't call that group as being broke
Also this abyss is far from being the hardest
@@Sonnenblume997 You're just arguing semantics at this point tbh. I mean If your interpretation of "bare bones" is limited exclusively to lvl 1 characters with no weapons/artifacts then sure my team wouldn't qualify. However in the context of someone actively trying to clear end game content, using a team of max level characters is to be expected. Even so Hyperbloom only requires a single character to be max level.
By bare bones I was referring to the minimum level a hyperbloom team challenging endgame is expected to have, which IMO is a level 90 Kuki, lvl 80-90 weapon, and 3 EM mainstats + 80-100 EM from subs ( you can even just run 2p wanderer on flower/feather instead you don't need 4p FLOP)
Also I never said this abyss was the hardest, I said that "abyss is currently the hardest content in the game" meaning the abyss in general, not necessarily that this is the hardest abyss we've ever had.
The quality of these videos you make are so damn good. I think you deserve more subscribers, can’t wait to see you grow and make more content in the future
i can definitely understand the frustration with the hyperbloom moment the genshin community has been going through. however, i feel like this is just an unfortunate byproduct of genshin meta content. this sort of "what is the most meta comp to clear abyss" thing has been happening since like ganyu, xiao, hu tao, and buffed zhongli came out. it happened with kazuha, it happened with raiden, it happened with yelan, it happened with nahida, it happened with wanderer, and is happening again with neuvi, wrios, and furina (all of whom are characters that even casual players can enjoy outside of abyss). i think that hyperbloom teams are really good (I used one to clear this 4.2 abyss because i fucking hate abyss lectors) but it is also worth saying that I def could have beat it with other teams i just could not be bothered. one thing that i think is an interesting note i've heard from similar frustrations about hyperbloom is that the dendro element in general has received a lot more love than others. it took genshin so long to release dendro as an element that it almost feels like they had more time to perfect it and have kinda favored it over other element which I think is a very valid argument.
Are you a jstern viewer/fan? He also doesnt love recommending hyperbloom, and that HYPERBAT emote... Susge
I don't necessarily agree. What you said is partly true.
Hyperbloom is still a very f2p friendly and low investment team than does good damage.
meanwhile xiangling burgeon chads
I am sorry but saying hyperbloom is not significantly cheaper to build than dps sets is just flat out completely wrong. At best you might get a functional dps that is inferior to even the most basic EM build. You do not need a full set of EM pieces. EM pieces from ANY set will work. The set does not matter much at all. The fastest speed runs this game has had all used hyperbloom. If you want a realistic chance of 36 staring Spiral Abyss in one week on a fresh account then it is going to use hyperbloom.
Hyperbloom is good but its never the ceiling of damage
But the domain (deepwood and gilded dream) is too good. U can quickly and easily farm a 4 set for bloom team. More over, u only need to farm for main stat, dont really care about substat. The efficiency of resin is very high. So, there's nothing wrong when say "hyperbloom is cheap to build"
Nope. EM artifacts are still hard to get in any set whatsoever. I've got way too many good dps stuff but getting a EM main stats if right sets is just horribly time consuming
@@aryn-jaeger not really. Compare to 1 set with good substat and 1 set with main substat, ofc main substat set definitely easier to farm
@@thongduonghiengia7168 Depends, really. For a good chunk of the first year of Genshin, I was farming viridescent set for Sucrose and when Kazuha came out, it also took a huge amount of time for me to get a full EM set because by that time, I still haven't gotten a full EM set on my Sucrose. By the same amount of time spreading my resin here and there, I've built multiple DPSes but still haven't gotten full EM sets for both my Sucrose and Kazuha. Everytime I decently build any DPS into decent crit stats, I go back to trying to get EM sets on VV, even with the strongboxes.
Safe to say it's mostly up to luck but EM main stats are also hard to get so to say it's much "cheaper" to build is somewhat disingenuous. I've literally spent more of my time tryna build two units with full EM's than building a lot of DPSes so, to me, honestly, it's more or less the same. Being an old player, I also haven't bothered with building dendro units because all my built teams can still do abyss to this day anyway so I get that for newer players it may be less taxing in terms of you really don't need to care about substats but just trying to get that main stat is also a bit of a problem by itself.
Hyperbloom is cheap so long as you stop trying to improve the team after you finished getting EM/EM/EM gilded for kuki.
You're statistically far more likely to finish kuki before you finish your other characters with good substats, so if you do that you're likely to end up near the floor damage output of hyperbloom.
If you want to invest in the team any further, it is exactly as efficient as any other team team that relies on correct mainstat + crit substats on their on-fielder and off-fielders.
@@thongduonghiengia7168 Is this based on actual data or is it just feels craft? Because people have done actual research on this and on average it's significantly cheaper to build hu tao (e.g.) than it is to build a full em trigger on a hyperbloom. On average it'll take you less time to get a full set for her because she can use *alot* of substats efficiently. The community perception that only crit value matters is a myth.
I don't like to be that guy, but I'm still waiting for the numbers to prove you can build a proper team that does the same damage as hyperbloom teams with the same level of investment
reasons why i like Hyperbloom: 1.) I like the big numbers 2.) i didnt know this game had a meta 3.) i like the big numbers (in green this time)
Actual good video- I personally use Alhaitham Nahida Quickbloom for one of my teams but I mainly invest into my Alhaitham and Nahida- And I so happened to have a good triple EM Gilded Dreams set for Shinobu to use-
u dont need to justify for using the team ^^
unrelated to the topic but the outro with alhaitham and keqing is so cool
I end up using hyper bloom unintentionally because before the release of dendro my favourite characters usually ended up being hydro and electro and running taser teams.
I very rarely built my pyro units (and that hasn’t changed lmao) I didn’t even use cryo at all until wriothesley’s release cause he’s so fine lmao.
After dendro’s release i just liked it cause it buffed all my electro units but i main kokomi (and enjoy hydro dps characters) and with Nahida being one of my strongest units one spiral team ends up as hyper bloom lmao
There's a few factors that make decent abyss-clearing Hyperbloom teams so accessible:
1. There's only one domain for both artifact sets needed for the team (The FLOP domain is by no means necessary)
2. Any EM pieces or high EM substats can be thrown together to make a set for the Hyperbloom trigger (Raiden, Kuki, Razor, Dori?)
3. The sub reactions for Hyperbloom are all useful and scale with EM making your teams innate reaction damage very high (Electro-Charge, Bloom, Catalyze-Aggravate/Spread)
4. 2 out of 3 units you need are given for free. Dendro Traveler and Barbara may not be the premiere options, but they can definitely clear with the right level of investment and accompanying units.
The two caviats to these (which you mentioned) are:
1: If you don't have Raiden or Kuki, your hyperbloom consistency is sketchy at best, and even with the other hyperbloom triggers I mentioned, you need to have invested in a full team for just memeworthy damage.
2. All teams have their damage split into reaction damage and talent damage. The reaction damage of hyperbloom and all is subreactions are indeed high, but talent damage still makes up the main impact on your DPS. My C6 Xingqui with a full EM set on my Nilou team is still outputing a ton of raw hydro damage. He and Nahida make up for what the bountiful bloom damage lacks especially in single target scenarios.
I think the only bad argument here is the “low investment” one.
Deepwood domain Mainstat EM is numerically easier then substat on set pieces. That’s just artifact math. Obviously dendro teams still need to be built like others, but they do have the advantage of not needing CV.
I think you overreached on that part for the sake of making a point.
I like being blinded by number on the screen, hence why I use Hyperbloom most of the time in abyss
woah this is gonna be episodal? I wanna see more, this video was fun to watch regardless of the takes! my notifs shall be prepared for the next one
Yep lol. This is my clickbait series
This video sets up a strawman to knock down and doesn't really accomplish its goals anyway.
just finished the vid. still, why bro so pressed about an optional playstyle called hyperbloom LMAO
i agree with some points .. good video keep up
One thing id like to point out about hyperbloom is that when you do a hyperbloom team you also cause spread and aggrivate which cause dmg bonus and also electro current. Thats mainly why people drool over hyperbloom and is very important to talk about
STUNLOCKED om
The lower investment comes from the fact you can farm for deepwood and gilded dreams at the same time thats several characters you can build with the domain the fact that your dendero trigger doesn't need sub stats to make them hit really hard is a masive bonus and hyper bloom teams like kuki, dendro traveler, xingqiu and noelle with pretty bad sub stats was enough to get me through floor 11 of most abyss runs the point is you dont need decent artifacts on most of the other characters if you have a hyper bloom trigger because the damage frome hyperblooms can make up for it so its really good to build for players who are still working on the characters for it
Certainly the reason the new account speedrunner had the fastest time with hyperbloom and nilou bloom
Your take about hyperbloom requiring as much investment is purely wrong, you don't need 5 star EM mainstats or even full set, you can get away with 2pc2pc with a craftable weapon or a 3 star weapon, you don't need to upgrade any talent level as well
I feel like a lot of these criticisms are actually missing the strengths of Hyperbloom...
Sure, Hyperbloom teams allow for other characters to deal damage along with the reaction itself, but that's just a strength of Hyperbloom teams. They allow for anyone outside the Electro trigger to be built for talent damage, since only the Electro wants full EM. Xingqiu and Yelan dealing so much damage in that example is a strength of Hyperbloom teams, not a weakness.
True, getting triple EM on a good 4 piece is hard, but you really don't need that for Hyperbloom to start taking off. Even just one or two EM main stat pieces on a 4 piece of Gilded (which is easy to do if you use off pieces) can get a team off the ground faster than many others. Sure, it's not optimal, but optimising a Hyperbloom team doesn't even increase the Hyperblooms nearly as much as optimising for talent damage does. That's not an equivalent comparison. Hyperbloom's reputation for being a good way for players to start getting high damage early on comes from that - a low investment Hyperbloom team is much preferable to a low investment talent damage team. Having alright artifacts on a talent damage dealer won't be as good as having alright artifacts on a Hyperbloom trigger. The Hyperbloom team is even better if you just slap on whatever damage artifacts you may or may not have on all your other characters.
Putting a character with no inherent Hyperbloom synergy into a 3 unit core for Hyperbloom is funny.. It also works. Putting a level 40 Wriothesley, that you just got and have no artifacts for, into a Hyperbloom team is a good way to use him early on, since the damage being triggered outside of Wriothesley himself can be substantial enough to carry him. That allows someone to actually use characters in harder content immediately, which is cool and a really good thing. Once that character is built.. The Hyperbloom team will only be better, since it's just gaining even more talent damage. The fact that this talent damage does not disrupt the team makes it a STRENGTH, not a weakness. Obviously Wriothesley has other teams where he may have better synergy and shine more, but Hyperbloom being so good does honestly make it a very valid and viable team for him along with many other characters.
Yeah, fridge is funny. It's also useful. While technically using Cryo can let you make more seeds, that's not even the main utility of it. It's mainly just to gain freeze on top of having a Hyperbloom team. I promise this will be the last time I reiterate the versatility of these teams, but the fact that freeze can be used alongside Hyperbloom without really harming the team's damage is yet another strength of Hyperbloom teams.
Anyway, yeah, there are other things you can do, and Hyperbloom is far from the only option. Doesn't mean we should ignore the fact that Hyperbloom is often one of the best options. That's just my take at least.
hyperbloom is just the way too overhyped. a good hyperbloom team takes less investment than other teams yes, but thats it. strong team yet others teams are just as strong. most people who recommend hyperbloom are the overraters who think hyperbloom is the only team a f2p player can make. In reality its just a strong team, like many others. No need to put it on some sort of throne sitting right next to jesus labeled as the second coming of christ you know what i mean? Low investment vape team performs worse than a low investment hyperbloom team, but a high investment hyperbloom is worse than a high investment vape team its pretty simple.
Also, running any lvl 40 character will automatically be fine in a hyperbloom team because hyperbloom is made up of three units. Plus running a lvl 40 character doesnt make sense, just lvl him up.No need to compare a team with a lvl 40 unit on it
@@sweetbabyrayso5262 The thing is, while I agree that Hyperbloom damage itself doesn't get much from things like high investment into artifacts, there are other ways to invest into Hyperbloom teams. Vape will get more from having more damage stats and benefit from constellations and things, but.. What about Quickbloom teams? You can make Hyperbloom work in those teams, where it's still providing lots of damage AND you can invest into your characters stats just like with Vape teams to increase Aggravates/Spreads. That way, you can make Hyperbloom work in teams that scale well in high investment because.. It's just that versatile.
Even with Hyperbloom itself, that can scale well with high investment by getting Nahida's C2. Maybe play her with an Alhaitham using his signature weapon plus a highly invested Hydro like Yelan or Furina. I do agree that, at a baseline, talent damage teams can get ahead at high investment with stats, but I can't say I agree that Hyperbloom teams are strictly worse than Vape teams at high investment.
Also, yeah, obviously you wouldn't wanna use a level 40 character in a perfect world, but characters take time to level. I still it's very nice that Hyperbloom is good enough to carry a low level character, or bad character. You can use a character that you just really like, get to see their nice animations AND still clear the harder content.
Now, I agree that Hyperbloom is far from the only option, and people should play other teams if they're more interested in those. That doesn't mean Hyperbloom isn't one of the best options, and you can certainly make the argument that it is the best option in many situations. Not EVERY situation, but many situations.
@@shaan3512 I almost agree with everything you said here. I don’t equate a quick bloom team to a hyperbloom team. In my eyes, that’s like calling a fridge team a freeze team. While technically true, I think it’s a little disingenuous? I agree that vertically investing into hyperbloom can yield great results, but that is vertical investment and not horizontal. By high investment I mean horizontal investing in which your artifacts are of higher quality with better substats like multiple 35+cv artifacts and such. For hyperbloom, this is limited somewhat.
I’m not trying to say hyperbloom isn’t a very strong team cause it is, but I just see a lot of people worshipping the team like national doesn’t exist albeit being a more expensive team investment wise. However if we want to talk about ease of use then HB is way easier and comfier than national on all fronts. I do agree with the rest of things in your comment though.
@@sweetbabyrayso5262 good luck getting crit er attack and em on national faster than just 3 pieces on 1 character. Oh btw this is with level 1 talents. You cannot be serious. You have literally zero argument why Hyperbloom team isn't faster to build than a proper national team which is the other amazing f2p team. You are on drugs lol
Everyone above me needs to take a shower
This is an okay vid. lol. Fun to rile up the hive for discussion but HB does it's job just fine, for a change I can see the popularity factor. Considering talent cost and RNG for new accounts, even starting up with finding triple EM I believe has a lot more viability while you weave the sets together. The fact you can have even two piece arti benefits for that and be good to go over select units that 4pc artifact sets with decent/good subs should be taken into account with the investment argument.
Genuinely speaking EM stacking and getting a high floor benefit from a reaction feels like a good way to bridge the gap. It can be the safe grounds to tackle the game's content while working on everything else. Involving the abyss, having safe floor options that doesn't need heavy strictness only adds to HB's favor.
While I understand your point on the effect of rng on investment level, I would like to know the hard numbers on that. I know EM is the rarest main stat, but once you do have that set, substats are practically irrelevant. Paradise Lost and Gilded Dreams are also very universal sets for hyperbloom and even burgeon triggers, allowing one set to be used by multiple characters, whereas crit builds require various specific sets. Depending on one’s account goals, a domain may attach a desired artifact set to an undesirable or non-synergistic alternative. The same can’t be said for Gilded Dreams. I can see how someone could have an easier time farming artifacts and clearing the abyss with another team type, but the unpredictability of randomness aside, I don’t see how hyperbloom doesn’t have an advantage in ease of access considering the merits I’ve described.
genshin wiki has the main stat distribution. em is about twice as rare as the standard dmg main stat, but as u say, once u get em mainstat the subs dont matter. but for other dmg main stat, they still need to rng crit, then rng again to roll into those crit
With some very bad napkin maths I got to ~5420 resin for an EM/EM/EM 1/6/4 lvl 90 kuki vs ~9800 for a HP/(HP or hydro)/(CR or CD) with crit substats on everything 1/8/8 lvl 90 yelan, though that doesn't say anything about the quality of the rolls on yelan (both not counting resin required for artifact xp/character xp).
The highest damage hyperbloom teams tend to run the non-trigger characters on standard crit/damage builds (e.g. haitham hyperbloom, xq+yelan hyperbloom, furina 2electro hyperbloom), so the effect of "saving resin" is really diminished if you're building up the whole team, since it only applies to 1/4th of the team.
The "cheapness" of hyperbloom comes from providing high floor damage for low resin cost by building kuki/raiden EM/EM/EM, but after that, if you want to increase your damage past that floor, the resin cost is the same as any other team.
"EM mainstat is rarest" andies on their way to spend three years to get on-set elemental goblet with 30+ cv(still didn't drop)
2:30 Honestly why not. Compared to a team based on any other reaction, with the same low investment, this hyperbloom team should perform far better. Yao Yao and DMC have decent enough dendro application, Barbara can be on-field and the only issue is that she'll need to hug the enemies for Kuki's ring to proc reactions. Sure, using Alhaitham, Nahida and Xingqiu gives much more personal damage and the difference in overall dps is noticable, but it's not as abyssmal as in vape, melt, or freeze teams.
loved the video tho i dont totally agree with what you said. i think hyperbloom teams are simply very strong AND comfortable. on top of that they have very good f2p teams and are very accessible for most players. the artifacts are usually spread on two domains only which makes them easier to farm and there is less chance involved after getting what you need. if you have EM mainstat there is nothing else you really need. getting those high CV pieces on the right main stat is harder to get from my experience.
i think all those points accumulate and make up the reason why hyperbloom is so popular and advertised so much.
but i do agree that it feels like other teams get undermined a little bit, even tho when it comes to pure damage they dont fall behind on hyperbloom. in the end its most peoples goal to reach 36 stars ig and i feel like hyperbloom gets you there the fastest.
you have a great editing style and your video was very well structured. a blast to watch. hope you will continue this series and looking at the views you might have to
Another thing really why most people recommend this comp is because of how easy it is to play rotations don’t really matter in most hyperbloom teams, people have proven that you can play hyperbloom literally blind and you’ll still clear as fast as the best teams out there.
Sorry 4 using a mechanic in the game to beat the abyss🥺
thank you, now i can safely play my bs wrizzly freeze without the fear of it being bad
The only time I was able to 9-star abyss consistently without shuffling teams is with HB. I am pretty bad at the game in general and I''m having a hard time dodging. So for me, Hyperbloom is really quite good for people that cannot get gud. I'm not particularly interested with Genshin's end game - the only reason I play it is because I'm quite deep into the adventure.
I pretty much just build teams based off of character synergies. This is either derived from what is written on paper or play testing, ie what feels good to play. Reactions are about the last thing I factor in unless a character’s kit revolves around it like Kaveh and the simple fact you generally want at least 2 different elements.
Just the amount of resources spend for hyper carry teams are more expensive.
The only team that can compete with low investment hyperbloom is nilou bloom on which you need a specific 5 star character.
The hyperbloom teams can be created with free characters/starglitter characters.
The only investment for hyperbloom is just 3 em mainstat and em weapon on which we have craftables.
The artifacts for hyperbloom just need 4 pc dendro set for shred since it boost hyperbloom and em mainstat for the electro user. You have an option to use 2 pc WT from farming for ascending characters and 2 pc gilded.
And the character just can use er sands and weapons for all they care.
tbh you kinda can put 3 shit units together and clear up to floor 10 with literally no investment
and by no investment i mean lvl 0 deepwood on someone and an EM weapon on the trigger (even without artifacts)
i cleared it with my lvl 70 artifactless lisa (sac frags), kirara (fav), lvl0DW lvl70 collei (fav) and artifactless Xq (sac) with 9 stars
it wasn't braindead and took a few resets but if you add instructor, 4 star EM mainstats (even just 2 out of 3) and a bit of investment in kirara to actually survive you can easily clear braindead
if you want to clear 11 and 12 tho you might need actual synergy between character and stuff like that
but for someone just starting that wants the primogems from the abyss hyperbloom is the best choice
collei is free, lisa is free, xq is in the shop and kirara is easily tradeable with any characters that offers even a bit of survivability like barbara (free) or beidou (in the shop)
the low investment is not wrong you don't need a 4pc EM set. going 2pc 2pc 80 EM is fine. one of those options being the troupe set which you are going to get alot of just doing weekly bosses or level up materials. The difference between FLOP and gilded dreams is only a few %. most players won't care about that difference and will just get a gilded dreams set while farming deepwood for any of the dendro characters on a hyperbloom team anyway.
I didn't play hyperbloom in my case because before dendro came i already built my character who are mostly used in hyperbloom team quite well (shogun, fischl, XQ, and yelan). Added to the additions of nahida, and now furina whom i spent months worth of resins, the hyperbloom team is too dang strong. I mean, my chars can clear abyss with old reactions, adding a hyperbloom is overkill. The previous abyss iteration is the latest i was using hyperbloom team, used it just to see furina performance with AFK gameplay, that field generator on 12-3 side 2 was dead with (shogun, zhongli, furina, and nahida) all of them are C0, n before someone asking i am whaling, no i am not, i just buy some welkin here n there, just remember, i am a day 1 genshin player. So, i agree with with OP said on his video, you don't have to force yourself for hyperbloom team if your luck dictates you with sub par hyperbloom team.
Well, didn't age well after 4 day account hyperbloom speedrun...
stunlocked aware
@@sadgekyat That speedrun accout literally followed his advice about pulling current 5*. So it's 50/50. One W and one L.
Good video 👍
I'd recommend Hyper Bloom, but it depends on the units involved. Meta or not- Like if it's Nahida I would, even Dendro Traveler. But if you had no good Electro or Hydro character for it... no point.
For something like Tighnari or Alhaithim the Aggravate/Spread is better. Maybe even Freeze Bloom would be better- it ultimately comes down to your units. If you have Thoma... Burgeon. Just try Burgeon.
Burgeon Hyperbloom was also a funny playstyle because everything exploded. with Overload. But Hyperbloom is less time consuming to build resin wise which is the main reason I'd recommend it, not because it's OP. Since you only need to farm one dungeon usually it's just... very very time efficient and Genshin isn't usually that nice with the grind.
I wouldn't recommend Burgeon for early players solely because Thoma's burst reliant gameplay is ASS to get around. I have a pre-C4 Thoma and he still struggles to get energy back with 180 ER and R5 Cross Kitain Spear. In comparison, my Kuki still has Level 1 talents and the most garbage EM main substat Gildeds in existence and she's still able to cheese most of the game's content.
I also agree that 70% of Hyperbloom's "Cheap to Build" reputation comes from the Gilded/Deepwood domain being so resin efficient. The venn diagram of teams that would need both artifacts are basically a circle, especially compared to the previous Most Efficient Domain (Emblem just far outweighs in value to Shimenawa, which only has a general 2pc stat and a very mediocre 4pc stat)
You are absolutely right, hyper bloom need good dps like alhaitam or hydro dps.
I got a good chuckle when you said one of the 3 xingqiu’s lol
I’ve been mostly out of the community and thinking about the numbers behind the pretty characters and world of GI for a year or 2 now. So idk if this perspective still counts today or not but my perspective is a main DPS is solid and worth considering if said characters DPS is at least 20k with the best 3/4* weapon u have available, lv9 talents, and 75% artifact quality. As for the burst and off-field DPSs, say more like 10k DPS given the same investment. So this means without a support, healer, or shielder ur teams overall DPS shud end up being at least 50k with some fair amount of artifact investment. A well invested character has artifacts of 90% quality or above.
I think that part of why hyperbloom is considered "easier to build" might be because it's SIMPLER to build. Like, you only need EM on the triggerer(s), nothing else, not even ER (for Shinobu/Raiden at least). your sands/goblet/circlet substats can be literally anything, which also means that once you get one general good EM (which can also be a 2pc 2pc between gilded/fruit/wandering) set, you can slap on any triggerer and call it a day.
Most other characters/builds will often require a more specific combination of stats, that can make substat farming harder and maybe more than that, more complicated, because there are more things to keep track of.
The thing about hyperbloom that has given it the status it has, is the high floor and low ceiling...
As you said, when compared with other teams at decent investment(correct mainstats, ER% to burst if required and like 3/8 assuming 3 line start, useful substats), hyperbloom does not do insane damage, with it just being a complimentary reaction, but compared with, say a vape team, the electro trigger only has to worry about building EM and possibly ER% if you are running Lisa or something, while vape scales with crit, dmg%, atk/hp and can reach a MUCH higher damage ceiling, the floor is also much lower.
Still, that is 1/4 of the team that doesn't have to worry about substats in a hyperbloom team, and while EM mainstat is the rarest bar specific dmg%, statistically you would on average get one before you get correct mainstats with decent substats, not including farming for talent levels. Furthermore, a lot of other teams like to run a VV anemo support, often running EM for the swirl damage just like the hyperbloom trigger, which is equally as hard to get.
In general i agree with most of the video... hyperfridge goes hard... but the thing with hyperbloom is, as you said in the video, the team does significant damage, so adding hyperbloom is more often than not a net gain of damage(if it makes sense to run, a.k.a. changing 1 unit and/or downgrading a support to trigger hyperbloom... don't try to run, fx. some Hu Tao hyperbloom unless as a meme). More than anything, hyperbloom is only as good as it is because it has good units, such as the 3 Xingquis, that facilitates the reaction while doing great personal damage, and its favorable synergy with other reactions, be it electro-charged, freeze, aggravate or spread...
For a quick comparison, just look at burgeon, which is, in principle, way superior to hyperbloom as it does the same damage but as a larger AoE(disregarding Nilou teams, which does the same but better). It simply does not have the same synergy as hyperbloom's sub-reactions compared to burning, and Thoma certainly isn't an ideal burgeon trigger, which also gets punished much harder via burning, but it is currently the best we got.
Tldr: Based vid. Hyperbloom as a reaction is not the savior, but requires, and has, good teams. In addition, hyperbloom does not scale well with investment compared to other team archetypes.
low ceiling when c2 nahida exists
Yea, starting to think video was probably clickbait.
@@deepjyotideb1173because it is kekw
I agree. I’ve never heard anyone say hyperbloom is one of the best reactions bc it provides the most dmg. It’s always been the fact that is has a higher floor than other reactions. But the ceiling of hyperbloom has never really been considered to be the highest and a lot of ppl don’t care about having the most dmg they just want enough to comfortably 36* abyss and get their primos each cycle. This video is not saying anything new that most ppl who pay even semi attention to meta don’t know already😅
I definitely think Nilou bloom and hyper bloom teams are much easier to build than other teams. Especially in Nilou bloom, you can easily clear with low talent characters. Same thing with hyper bloom, you can have a level 90 Kuki with level 1 talents still output good damage.
I see hyperbloom/any other reaction team as DOT( comparing with some turnbased games... for example passive damage like poisoning enemies etc) the game has fair share of main dps options and buffers to make dps character hypercarry the account... Reactions are just a bonus you get from picking certain elements
I usually use Alhaitham in a spread team, where spread essentially increases his DPS by 200% sure he can hit hard, mine is only doing 30-40k mirror projections but that's also with a terrible build, but with 900+ em thanks to his supports he does 60k spread damage and with the right rotation he can keep that going for 20 seconds pushing his DPS from ~300,000 to ~1 million or more, and that's with just 180 crit damage because his artifacts suck but his signature is insane
Have some great points, bu the low investment take is kind of a stretch. The domain for deepwood is pretty efficient and for a low investment team you only look at em and er tops, while other comps care way more for substats. You can run a deepwood and full broken sets and get pretty good results compared to other hypercarries comps. It shines in low investment but prolly has a lower ceiling than other comps for whales
I love how many people in this comment section deliberately avoid the team dmg distribution point and the fact that he said u can get a FUNCTIONAL set before a full em one
Watching jstern25 do viewer abysses really showed how overrated it is, it sucks if u dont have a lv90 trigger and if your other character have under leveled talents or weak artifacts it's extremely painful to get a clear (crazy how he always ends up giving the same advice to hyperbloom accounts like any other ones that are struggling)
i'll agree that it is annoying to have hyperbloom shoved down as a first recommendation as a team to build (especially when it's being forced onto a character having no synergy with it just to make hyperbloom "carry" the character), but imo it's definitely more resin efficient, at the very least on average.
you can get unlucky with getting EM mainstat considering how rare they are, true, but when you do get them, you already know that it's a piece you're guaranteed to use, which isn't the case for talent damage characters, like speaking of FLOP/DPC domain, i got first double crit atk% sands on DPC set after 3 months of farming, but then it just rolled 24% def with 3 crit rolls to spare. if that would be an EM piece for hyperbloom trigger, it could as well have three flat stats and 100 flat defence on it, it would've been more than enough nonetheless. same goes for feathers and flowers, you don't need to get 100+ EM on each, getting at least 2-3 EM rolls is enough since the damage increase is way too small to make it worth farming for more. 4* EM artifacts also have only around 50 EM less than 5* ones, which isn't the biggest dps loss compared to how much you'd lose from doing this on ADC builds characters. good vid otherwise though :)
Wait til you get this:
DPS Kokomi -
1k EM Kuki
Dendro traveller
Golden Troupe Nahida
IT JUST TEARS 40k-60k hyperbloom damage with 70k seed of skandha damage
My take away from this is essentially "hydro characters carry genshinnimpact"
6:36 This part spoke to me.
I've seen players insisting Raiden's a must pull because of Hyperbloom. Ganyu's a great pull for Hyperfridge. Nuevillette should be used in Hyperbloom because "he's not a hypercarry".
If someone loves these characters enough to pull them, they want teams focused around maximising them. Insisting on cramming them into Hyperbloom, in my eyes, is quite rude. And loses sight of why we pull characters in the first place.
That's just the META = most effective tactics available, no one forces you to play like that...
@@kazuhu580 Those aren't META teams. Neuvillette has better options. Hyperfridge is a meme. And if you insist on playing Hyperbloom, Kuki Shinobu is usually more efficient than Raiden.
@@bangletassel9539
-Hyperbloom is one of Neuvillette's best teams at C0
-Hyperfridge is not a meme
-Raiden C0 >/= Kuki C2
@@kazuhu580 ah yes raiden > kuki when kuki does the same exact thing as raiden while also providing healing
@@Shuraig7
-Her healing is bad with a full EM build, not to say she consumes her own HP, making her vulnerable to enemies and corrosion when switching to her.
-Kuki has less range.
-Her skill duration is only 12/15 seconds compared to Raiden 25s and that means easier rotations.
-Kuki has less EM than Raiden because there's no 4* sword with 221EM.
-Raiden generates more particles for the team.
Kuki is only better if the enemies have a shield (Raiden skill doesn't proc) or against the golden wolflord when he's flying.
Both are good tho, and you can play 2 hyperbloom teams
2:29 I find it very funny is that except for replacing Barbara with Kokomi, that was exactly the team I used to 9 star Abyss 12 before.
Funny enough, I've farmed the FoPL/DPC domain for long enough that I've gotten three (3) sets of Flower pieces, literally two of them having EM goblets, but I still haven't gotten a a satisfactory Wanderer build out of it. Probably just my bad luck ;_;
Otherwise, I agree to some extent. I don't think anyone has to be obligated to run a hyperbloom team to clear the abyss, but rather it should just be considered as one of the powerful single target-focused team option a player can take if they want to tackle the hardest content in the game.
Hyoerbloom is so broken i didn’t realised cleared floor 12 with 9 stars with an alhatiham that has no artifacts