What Ever Happened to Planescape?
Vložit
- čas přidán 24. 06. 2024
- Sigil, the City of Doors, a nexus of infinite possibilities. A setting where magic intertwined with philosophy, and adventure awaited around every corner. This was Planescape, a beloved Dungeons & Dragons campaign setting that captured the hearts and minds of countless players.
But what happened? Why did this rich and vibrant world fade from view? Join us on a journey through the history of Planescape, exploring its unique mechanics, unforgettable characters, and the reasons behind its rise and fall, and rise again?.
Thanks for the support!
/ endingsexplained
Laserox:
laserox.net/products/rpg-acce...
Fire and Dust PDF:
uo-planescape.wdfiles.com/loc...
00:00 - Intro
01:21 - History
03:42 - Setting
10:51 - Sponsor
11:21 - Game / Adaptions
15:53 - Timeline of Plansescape
18:00 - Future
Music:
Hard Boiled, Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Rising Tide, Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Celtic Impulse, Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0
creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
Sources:
culturenation.fandom.com/wiki...
thewertzone.blogspot.com/2009...
www.sjgames.com/pyramid/sampl...
www.theweem.com/2010/09/qa-wit...
Everyday I wake up and curse myself for existing in a timeline where Planescape Torment never got a sequel
I won't stop hoping for a sequel to PS:T, some how, some day.
Have been DMing since 1996, and I still draw so much inspiration from this setting. It's haunting and eerie and gorgeous.
there’s nothing to make a sequel out of though, the best we can hope for is another game set in the planescape setting
@@ce5122 That's true, I'd honestly feel a bit robbed if it was a sequel or prequel or even with the same characters / timeline. There are so many incredible ideas waiting to be explored here
This def
It certrainly isn't as good, but technically 'Torment: Tides of Numenera' is a sequel, isn't it?
I never played D&D in the Planescape setting. But, I consider Planescape: Torment to be one if the finest video games ever made.
If you enjoyed Torment, I'd highly recommend playing DnD in the setting or checking out the books!
Hands down the most interesting D&D setting, Sigil still influences me. It had exactly one problem: d&d's system was a terrible fit for a location where a djin, demon prince and fey queen could be room mates, with a beholder landlord, and frequent a bar run by a lich.
The premise of the city at the center of existence was far too wild for the actual rules to handle well.
That's a great point - you really do have to wonder how planescape would have fared if it wasn't tied to DnD - if it was made for a video game or book series it could have really thrived - although it is hard to imagine because as much as I see your point that it doesn't mesh well at times within DnD so much of what makes it planescape is born from it. Hard to divorce the two
YES! I was so excited to see you cover this and you did an incredible job! I couldn't have put it any better when you said how underutilized Planescape is, thats why I try to tell everyone I can about how great it is to keep the spirit of the setting alive.
Thank you so much!! It was a tough setting to cover because there's just so much to explain haha. Glad I got Solaire's approval though and 100% agree - it's kind of incredible nothing more has been done with it! Hopefully one day!
Sigil is the best place in the realms. Everything you can imagine is there, and everyone is exactly as powerful as everything else thinks they are. You can also open portals to anywhere by doing almost anything. Like you fart in the wrong place and end up in Bator or some shit.
It is kind of the best example of a multiverse that was put on top of a setting, equal parts terrifying and also hilarious
This is underappreciated. A very nice summary with a Cohesive narrative
Thank you so much! Was actually extremely difficult to fit all the info in such a relatively short video while making it a tight narrative - glad it came off that way to someone out there in the world!
Glad to see that on spite of all the upheaval between TSR, WotC, and Hasbro (Hasbro: until all are one!) that such an interesting and original setting hasn't wound up becoming a forgotten realm.
100%, I think it' a testament of the community that's sprung up around Planescape - even without the recent release it still had a pretty large number of fans compared to the other settings
I see what you did there.
Planescape wasn't intended to be a niche product, it was intended to be an answer to tabletop RPG trends in the 90s that were a threat to TSR's dominance then and have since petered out. Without that market relevance it's not coming back no matter how good it was.
Interesting take! Which other tabletop RPGS in particular do you think it was an answer to? And I guess planescape has already came back in 5E - or do you mean become popular again? But I guess it's always been popular!
Vampire the Masqurade was as big ttrpg rival in the 90s.
Interesting! I guess it was released in 91 so three years before Planescape. I do wonder if that was cutting into the DnD market
@@exitsexamined The devs have spoke before about how the 'faction' system in VtM inspired planescape dustmen etc
My very first experience with D&D (not with ttrpgs generally, but with D&D itself) was a 2e Planescape game as a preteen in the 90s. Spelljammer was my second, so I had a pretty wacky introduction to D&D lol
That sounds like an amazing intro haha. How was going to more traditional settings afterwards?
@@exitsexamined well I'd already played traditional fantasy with the Palladium Fantasy RPG before that, and was a big fantasy nerd type of girl as a kid, so it wasn't that unusual (and I had played the Eye of the Beholder dungeon crawler/CRPG games before I played D&D so I had somewhat of a grip on the Forgotten Realms as a setting from that)
The best part? Sigil Cant, and finding yourself slipping into it in everyday life. "Ya bleedin' berk, plan on rattlin' yer bone-box 'til some cutter writes yer name in the dead-book? Bar that!"
I imagine when they were first coming up with the setting the design team would just constantly yell at each other in the cant
Thanks for the great review 👍🏼 I still have the 5 discs physical copy of the P:T ❤ Expirience of a lifetime!
Oh man I forgot to mention the whole 5 disc thing in this video haha. Experience is the right word to describe that game haha
I still have that 😊 I used to have Darksun amd AL Quadim too but I lost them 😥
How did you like Al Quadim? I was thinking about it covering it in a future video but I don't know much about it!
I have two very small nitpicks for the video, the quote at 2:28 was very confusing, especially when only listening to the video I suggest to remark when a quote is being read.
Second, the audio on the sponsored spot was clipping just a bit, and that's all.
This is a really nice and concise overview of this wonderful and beloved setting and I really enjoyed it.
I also like the variety in your videos and look forward to whatever you bring next.
Hey thanks so much for the feedback, I'm still actively trying to improve with each video so I'll keep those in mind. Glad you enjoyed it overall and I'm excited for what the upcoming videos as well!
Didn't we get like 3 books on Planescape recently?
Hey! Do you mean the recent additions to 5E? I think I mentioned the Adventures in the Multiverse books in this video! Or do you mean new novels? If it's novels I would have to update the description!
Around 12 minutes... "You wake up from a Hangover... I mean Death..."
I would argue, if it were possible like that... A person being magically brought back from death would definitely be groggy like he just woke up with a hangover. It's definitely how I feel anyways.
You know I originally put that in as a reference to Disco Elysium but honestly, fair enough haha
@@exitsexamined I got that I promise! My brain just likes to go EVERY direction at once sometimes.
I very much like the idea - unlikely as it may be - of the success of BG3 encouraging video games set in other settings. Would love to see a hollow world game.
Me too, so many of these settings are just generally underused for all there amazing ideas. I never got around to hollow world though! How would you compare to PS? Maybe I'll cover it!
Is the link to that pdf of the unpublished book in the description? None of those look to be it and I’d love to read it!
Hey thanks so much for reminding me - there were so many links I had to the description I totally forgot. I added to the description now but here it is as well: uo-planescape.wdfiles.com/local--files/pubblicazioni-e-materiale/Fire_and_Dust_by_James_Alan_Gardner-%281996%29_planescape_rejected_novel-pdf_version.pdf
No problem, great vid! Planescape and Dark Sun are my ride-or-die settings, but the novels for planescape are a bit of a nightmare to track down. Anything I can find is a godsend
I honestly 100% know what you mean - it was kind of insane trying to find the planescape books for this video, normally I'd do audiobooks but that just was not an option for most of these haha.
How is Dark Sun? I never got into it myself but I'm thinking about doing a deep dive into the setting for one of these videos but I don't know enough about it to know if it would make sense. Are there books in that setting too? As a concept it seems really interesting though
@@exitsexamined There are books! I was introduced to it reading the novels by the same Troy Dennigs you mention in this video. But never got a chance to check the campaign setting, IIRC there is little consistency between novels and setting because both were developed by different authors working parallel and not communicating with each other.
Think MadMax dark fantasy.
One of your sources pegged it as “D&D does Mad Max”, and that’s certainly a part of it, but also bits of dune, Conan, and John Carter of Mars pop up. Magic sucks the life out of the planet, wizard overlords run wasteland slave states, psionics are a cultural institution and natural fact of life present even in animals, life is cheap and death is cheaper, and secret societies struggle for liberty and environmental restoration. It’s definitely dark and edgy, but not nihilistic; it’s got big environmental and egalitarian themes, but it gets there by presenting a world where the bad guys won, chattel slavery is rampant, and the planet is dying. It then expects the players to take a stand against these things, with the understanding that such work is HARD and dangerous, and will likely take generations. Heroes don’t just need to save the day, they need to inspire the next generation to continue the work.
Speaking of 2e stuff first, The product line is divided into three eras; the first releases present the world as it is in a starting year, but don’t tell you WHY it is the way it is, just legends and heresay. Then, the sourcebook “Dragon Kings” introduces epic-level play, and also reveals the deepest secrets of the setting to show how things ended up so bad. Then, a revised boxset was published after a series of five tie-in novels (put a pin in that) changes the setting substantially; most find it inferior or that it changes core things about the setting they liked. I don’t mind it so much, but it is definitely secondary.
As far as adaptations go, there were a couple of old school crpgs, and I think a season of the neverwinter mmo. In the 2e era there was a series of five tie in novels called the “Prism Pentad” that most don’t like (I think the audible audiobooks are VERY well done though, great reader they got) because the 2e setting had a Metaplot. Each novel would have reveals and change the setting of contemporaneously published rpg products, which felt like an albatross to a lot of people. There were a couple other novel series in that era that few remember, and whose names escape me at the moment, and then a couple novels in the 4e era.
The setting was semi-supported in 3.x via dragon/dungeon magazines and fan sites that had the official blessing. And in 4th edition, they put out two dark sun rpg books as a lean setting launch (setting + monster book) during the last year of normal (not Essentials) 4e. It’s quite good, but it does suffer from wotc’s need to brand integrate all of their stuff; classic dark sun didn’t have tieflings and Dragonborn, but you bet that 4e did. Similarly, classic dark sun had 11 foot tall half giants as a player race, but 4e dark sun used the already present Goliath as a substitute.
Currently, Dark Sun is dead. During the post-ogl apology tour, the D&D producer they sent out to do the rounds said that dark sun is too problematic to bring back, because it has those elements of slavery and racism in it. But I think viewing it that way misses the point that it sets up a party to really take a stand against those things explicitly in the world building, and if done with a canny eye can make something that is exceptionally timely and relevant; I mean, there’s definitely something cutting about warring despots that suppress human rights and whose industry is killing the planet, right?
I also think that since dark sun is so siloed off in terms of its own lore and player options, it’s not very brand-integrative. For example, fey, angels, and devils don’t exist in Dark Sun, so any player or dm options in those arenas are useless in that setting, which definitely hurts with the current expectation that all player options must always be in play at all times. I think they’re right to make the calculation that it isn’t profitable, but I think they’re wildly off the mark in terms of it being offensive or problematic.
If you want to talk more about this, I’m happy to help start your research off, but that covers a good eagle-eye view of it!
I would like to see a video explaining Whatever Happened To Johan And Peewit? Without the Johan stories, we wouldn't even have the Smurfs, but Johan and Peewit are fairly obscure in the U.S but are getting a cult following.
Interesting! To be honest I had never heard of it! I put it on my list now - when and where did this air on television originally? Is that how you found it?
@@exitsexamined Johan was first introduced in comics by Peyo, and Peewit was added in later issues. One of their issues, The Magic Flute, was the first Smurfs story I believe. The 1980s Hanna Barbera Smurfs cartoon had a few episodes with Johan and Peewit. I first watched them on Boomerang in the 2000s when they used to re-run several Hanna Barbera shows.
Ol us fart here.
I remember the special. He was called pee wee in the states i guess. The smurfs had this sythesized voice that reminded me of the musical aliens from transformers season 3. Not usual. The sang a song about what the word smurf meant because the smurf used it for all types of words and how it confused the smurfs that the humans were confused. I think it was a tonal thing. I dont know how they explained it in the chinese version, though😄
Just to be clear, ots a joke about tonal language, not communism. It being smurfs
Can you cover Animorphs?
As someone who was big into Planescape when it was around, and who has pretty much the entire 2e campaign/modules/manuals etc as PDF on a DVD from 20 years back... I hope they never actually try and bring it back.
It would be a disaster under what Ive seen and know about Wizards these days... the setting, the ideas worked when stuck along side 2e AD&D but what D&D is now, it just would either be a complete mess or it would be so badly watered down or painted beige that it would fail (my god to have the old Teiflings back.. you know the ones that werent just colored skin and goat horns, but could be anything the player wanted and the DM allowed). Could have worked in 3rd edition and they still had alot of that Planescape feeling with the Out Planes in that edition, but now nope...
The Baatorians, Yugoloths and Taanri had actual character back then and the Bloodwar arc that spanned multipal campaign adventures, the Celestials, the Factions, the Planes felt amazing and the scope both infinity broad but also if needed razor thin.
The thing i loved most about PS was the fact every other campaign setting that often took itself either to seriously or acted like it was THE poster campaign setting of the game was made to feel small... It was like, oh your from Faerun? is that supposed to mean something to me berk? now if you'd step aside so i can serve the Red Abashi behind you his order... PS was the "I dont even know who you are" of campaign settings.
There was no Feywild or Shadowfell in Planescape.
Good point! I was mainly trying to explain the planes as a whole!
Thank you for not repeatedly calling it sijil like the big dnd youtubers have been doing
It was much harder than it has any right to be to not accidentally slip into the wrong pronunciation throughout the video haha
I'm surprised big dnd channels messed up though, which ones?
Sigil. With a hard g as in gum. Thats the city of doors
And the Lady shall be visiting those channels. Its mazes for them, rocky. Mazes.
Berk! Im sorry im currently watching the vid and he kept sayin all the clues that i was leavin showing how old i was and that i was og!LE ME ALONE AND STOP POSTING ON MY THREADA!
I combine planescape and spelljammer
That honestly sounds like a hot mess in the best possible way
17:53 Disappointing recent releases like Ravenloft?
Actually that was originally in my script but I took it out because I haven't played the updated ravenloft release personally - was it that bad?
@@exitsexamined It was an odd comment, Ravenloft / Curse of Strahd is widely regarded as the most popular 5e releases. It's one of, if not the most sold, adventure for 5e.
its extremely problematic and almost everyone who plays it does so specifically with the intent of highly editing it
Why didn't you mention Monte Cook?
There was a ton of information about the history of planescape and the setting itself I would have loved to include but I really try to keep the videos as lean as possible. There's so much in these videos I touch on, history of the setting, explaining the setting, the future of the setting, so sadly I have to pick and choose.
In the future though I might do a longer form of this video where I can go into more details and I'd love to mention him then
He does mention Cook, but I'm guessing Cook might get a video of his own sometime
@@Grogeous_Maximus zeb, not monte.
@@Grogeous_Maximus It is confusing! There are two cooks (unrelated) Zeb was working on - Monte worked on some of the additions to the setting and I believe Tides of Numenaria. But honestly there are a TON of amazing people who worked on these series over the years that in a deeper dive I'd need to go into specifically the artist behind the original drawings Dana Knutson who's work is incredible
The problem with Planescape is at least modern planescape is Wotc uses it as the crux for their multiverse when Planescape only really works in a vaccum
Interesting! What do you mean by a vacuum? Was it in a vacuum when it was first released?
I never knew the pronunciation of Sigil was an accident. That makes it seem way less pretentious.
lot of commenters here never actually played the 5e campaign i see. fake fans. its an amazing campaign.
I’m not sure if a large majority would say their favorite is planescape if only because I’m unsure how much the broad community knows about any setting that isn’t FR.
I was basing that statement on reddit polls and internet articles so it could be that I'm wrong haha. It would be sad though if most people didn't know about it!
Subb!
Hey thanks so much! I'll hopefully be getting to more DnD content in the future if that's your thing!
Planescape is setting that is really fun to read, but has very little content that GMs could actually use to make adventures with. There's just nothing to do in Planescape.
Hm that's interesting - when people generally talk about their favorite settings Planescape is always up there. I wonder if it's because it's a great setting or people actually enjoying DnDing there
@@exitsexamined Oh, I love reading it. It's a wonderful world.
It's just not a good game setting.
what? get the new campaign, turn of fortunes wheel. there are over 1000 encounters with full faction and district adventure starts
At risk of deep cynicism, PS is way past its prime. 3rd Edition onward began to loot the scope and strangeness of Planescape, but without much of the distinct flavor behind it. Lots of odd races became more commonplace and even planar weirdness would crossover into the Prime more. 5th Edition wasn't going to make Planescape special. If anything, they made it even less so with mostly pastel mush aesthetics seen in the other books as well as bland new ideas like glorified food trucks and other modern gentrification. Plus, the weird melding of 4th Edition planes like Feywild and Shadowfell to the prior Great Wheel feels so confused to me. Also, bloody hell, the Demons and Devils chilling at a bar, Wizards overused that so much... whether through hype or in production. Anyway, this comment is too negative. I happily point people back to the 2nd Edition version as well as rules to convert it over, all without spending too much more money. I feel they'll get the most out of things that way.
Also, those who say Sigil wrong don't get mazed, they just get berated as the Clueless and Primers that they are. Anyway, as your Tout, I expect some jink for the trouble, basher!
If anything, I wish Planescape had the same level of fandom love as Mystara. The latter has had a crazy amount of love from its fans! Magazines that continue today, lots of fan gazetteers, etc... I trust fans over companies any day.
All fair and interesting takes! You know I sadly have not gotten into Mystara yet! I'm thinking about covering it for a future video but I'm not sure if it has a interesting history compared to Planescape - how would you say they compare?
@@exitsexamined Mystara is a mix of pulp novels, historic fantasy and lots of weirdness tucked in corners. There's plenty to examine. Likewise, it's mostly split from the baggage of AD&D and 3E+.
uh no, the art in the new campaign book is FANTASTIC and not at all muddy or washed out. there are over 1000 encounters and all of them are themed to make use of the aligned factions towns and districts. u never played it i guess
17:05 LMAO this kid says the 5e Planescape book is "captivating charm" and "pretty positive" 😂😂😂😂💀
It's not my opinion, it seems to be the general consensus I saw across Reddit, reviews, and CZcams reviews. It's cool if you disagree though and don't like it, in fact it's probably understandable depending on why - speaking of, if you don't like it, why not?
@@exitsexamined REDDIT OMG 🤡🤡🤡🤡
you never played it then. its one of the only 5e campaigns that is any good. there are over 1000 encounters and theyre all well done. the main quest is solid.
@@daveshif2514 A solid turd lmao 1000 encounters
It's stolen from Elric of Melnibone, all of it
I did a quick wiki research session and although it seems like a really cool book, I didn't see anything about multiverses and the settings looks like a classic sword and sorcery fare without too much philosophy, but I'm not familiar with it! Which aspects are similar you think?