A fabulous piece of work Mr .... Lovely CAD drawings, beautifully explained, all wonderfully detailed. So, a big thankyou for taking the trouble, time and care to showi the workings/history of the La Pavoni on/off switch and the associated wiring to the element, a real education. I've always been slightly muddled with the development of the element and wiring over time; the what happened and when, but that's now cleared up. Much appreciation. Best wishes... Phil (England)
Thank you! An excellent, in depth description of the wiring changes over the years and many generations of La Pavoni. With the help of adapter parts supplied by Stefano's Espresso Care, I was able to convert my 1977 Europiccola (which I purchased new in Bologna) into a pressure controlled heater type of the later generations. It would have been a bit easier having seen your contribution John. Thank you for taking the time.
@@JohnMichaelHauck I do have a question though, where does the green ground wire from the cord itself attach to? Wouldn't it get mounted to a grounding screww drilled into the base? Are all wires supposed to be the same gage (i.e. 14AWG) regardless of the insulation color?
@@evw-ri8yt I'm not sure what generation you are talking about. The more recent designs have the ground wire running to two locations. One is the base and the other is the bottom of the boiler. My understanding (I am NOT an electrician) is because you want all the metal on any appliance to be grounded, and you cannot rely on the boiler-to-base connection to be conductive (there are gaskets and paint that can get in the way). As for the wire gauge, I've always seen them the same size - and this makes sense since you want to ensure the ground wires are capabile of returning enough current to trip the circuit breaker. Again, I am not an electrician, so it would be best to verify all this with a qualified service technician.
John, what a fantastic resource for the La Pavoni community! Your other CAD videos are also amazing. Thanks for the time and effort you have put into this. I can not tell you enough how illuminating your CAD models have been. Just a couple of comments about the element wattage as described in this video, based on personal work on multiple Pavonis, and also from Francesco. These specifically refer to the Europiccola. 1. The early Gen1s were 200W & 600W, wired for 200/800, with the 200W element always ON. 2. Later Gen1s moved to 200W & 800W, (wired for 200/800) around 1964. This configuration continued into the early Gen2s. 3. Later Gen2s (around 1980) moved to 200W & 1000W (wired for 200/1000) shortly after the change to the double switch. 4. The abominable short-lived diode version of 1991 used a single 750W element, in a benighted effort to save costs by removing an element, while avoiding a pstat. They finally sprang for a pstat shortly thereafter, using the same 1000 watt element as the Pro. Side note: For those wiling to make a simple wiring mod, the double-switch Gen2s are very easy to wire both elements in parallel to max out steaming power (I have a 1988 wired for 200/1200). It is possible to do this on the one-switch (3-position) late Gen1s and early Gen2s, with the addition of a SPDT relay inside the base. I have done so on a 1979, which now gives me 1000W for steaming.
bravo, thank you for the kudos and additional details. I've never heard anyone call the diode version "abominable" but I would have to agree. When I was modeling the diode, I thought, well this just seems to be out of the box thinking. It must be genius or the opposite.
John remarkable job explaining the wiring evolution using the CAD model. I have replaced so many components over the years on my La Pavoni I'd have to say it's mostly made up of new parts with the exception of the boiler and the group head. It's similar to owning a vintage 5 speed Alfa Romero...both need regular TLC but when in tune it is pure joy. Thanks for your efforts.
Thank you- this really helped me to troubleshoot my machine. The wires were installed wrong from the factory and your schematic showed me how to wire it correctly! It now works as it should.
@@JohnMichaelHauck the wire from the green light should have gone to the heating connection, but instead it was plugged into the temperature sensor. I'm surprised it worked at all, but it created a situation where the heater would never shut off- really causing a lot of pressure to be vented by the pressure relief valve. My friend who owned the machine says it was like that from the time she bought it in the 90s!
Hi John - I have an October 1987-built LP Professional, bought new and used pretty much daily by me since 11 December that year. Original equipment includes a single-element boiler, a pressurestat, but no safety/cut-out thermostat. The original pressurestat routinely cycled between indicated boiler pressures of 0.8 to about 1.25 bar without triggering the safety valve. The original red simple on/off switch was replaced with a green one when it failed about ten years ago. A few weeks ago I replaced the boiler pressure gauge. Then added a grouphead pressure gauge from the always excellent Coffee Sensor. And yesterday I fitted a Bong Isolator. I'm also using the CS stainless steel naked portafilter, which is bliss, with a 20g basket. And since a few days ago, a IMS Precision shower screen. So, both original equipment and recent additions, all likely to confound anyone wanting to know how it left the factory! Thanks for your truly magnificent walk-around the LP block, which I've only just discovered, and will be coming back to many times.
Hi Allen! These indeed are wonderful machines that last forever. Because the design is so stable, a pressure profiling kit from Tudor at Coffee Sensor works on your older machine as well as my newer ones off the factory in Milan today. I was privileged to work with Bong on designing the Isolator for Tudor's store. What a cool community! Let me know if there are other CAD videos you would like to see.
I was just looking at these espresso machines, and was wondering how to tell the difference between new vs old. I love seeing the differences so that we can easily determine what is what.
If the group head is not bolted on, then generation 1 (1961-1974) If the top of the group head is 50mm (it looks skinny compared to the bottom of the group head), then generation 2 (1975-2001) If the top of the group head is 60mm (it looks fatter), then generation 3 (2001+) If the lever is curved then generation 4 (2005+)
I think the diode at 9:18 (Gen 2.3a 1991) simply eliminates half of the alternating current by cancelling out one direction of the current - or one half of the wave in other words. ( See more at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternating_current .)
Wow...best tutorial I've ever watched! Thanks John! --- I bought a new Professional-16 cup in 97 or 98 and my wife and I have each enjoyed a cup every day. I've rebuilt it a few times over the years but I let the underside rust and have had to use plastic filler where the rust holes have eaten away at the base. It's so beat up that it sort of looks like Willie Nelson's guitar Trigger! I replaced all the wires a decade ago and a couple of years ago I had a company in San Diego, Jim Duke, replace the element but I don't think they replaced the base unit that the element mounts onto. Are the element and the element base unit separate? Do you have to replace the element base unit with the element? Also, I think my model is the one in your video that starts at the 7:30 mark but I'm not sure because all model tags are long gone on mine. I'm trying to find a wiring diagram. Do you have a link for a wiring diagram for the Professional 1997-98? Thanks again!!
I'm not a huge expert in electronics but I'll guess the diode will cut the sine wave of the AC in half and therefore will only let half the power through to the heating element
@JohnMichaelHauck and to you sir, huge thanks for making this cad models. That is the single best reference for differentiating between all the models. Now I know what to look for when buying my first Europiccola second hand.
Hello thanks for a detailed video. I have the version 3.2a with the diode. How ever the diode is broken. Do you know of a suitable replacement? Thanks :)
Ok next question...........In the diagram for the double element heater at time 7:57, where does the brown wire going from the "off" terminal attach to? Looking at the diagram above, it looks like it is between the element and the boiler flange. Also, why are there only two wires shown (blue and brown) coming out of the power cord?
Oooh, a wierd render glitch. Look at 8:02. It appears the lug did not render. It goes to the terminal on top that already has one brown wire. There is no ground wire in this render. If there was, it should go to the base and the bottom of the boiler to be safest. You can always go to www.francescoceccarelli.eu/lapavoni_schemi_eng.htm for real pictures.
Hello! Amazing work! Can I ask you which cable carries the incoming electrical current? And what is the return? In Italy the standard is that the brown cable is the Live (or phase) while the blue cable is the Neutral (or return). The ground is yellow and green. Thanks, congratulations.
Walter, the CAD model does not allow a mutli-color cable, so for ground I selected yellow. As for the live vs. neutral colors, I tried to remain true to the colors as documented by Francesco Ceccarelli (link in the video's description) where it seems the blue wire is usually the one that goes directly to the switch. The problem with real product photos is following the wires is difficult, so I clearly could have made a mistake here and there, especially since many of the wires are white. For dual-element machines, I used red for the high power element and green for the low. As I stated above, electrical service is only to be performed by qualified persons.
so what about the model (i believe it is one from the 1970's or 1980's) where there is an inline thermal cut off (not re-settable). Do those units have any way to regulate heating? Do they auto-shut off once they reach a certain temp? Or is that the responsibility of the userr to turn them off?
Are you speaking of this one? www.francescoceccarelli.eu/La_Pavoni/Schemi/ep/ep84-87.JPG Units before 1990 (including the one I think you are talking about) did not have a pressurestat. A pressurestat turns the heater off when the boiler pressure reaches a set point (often 0.8 bar). If there is no pressurestat, then there is no electronic regulation of the heating. Many units before 1990 had a low and high heating system, that you could manually choose. With those units, the pressure release valve opened up around 1 bar, which kept the temperature down (by releasing heat in the form of steam). So it would be part of normal operation to have steam hissing from pre 1990 units. With the pressurestat then, the pressure release valve is really more of a backup safety feature that does not open to release steam under normal operation. So it opens at a higher pressure (I'm guessing 2 bar but I don't really know). Take all the above with a grain of salt. I am not an expert in these things. This is my CURRENT understanding. Cheers!
This is not a fuse, but just a simple wire. I colored it brown in the CAD model to indicate it is connected to the incoming brown line from the power cord. In this model, the thermal fuse is the black cylinder in the center of the boiler bottom plate. The red button is the reset switch. I hope that helps. For more in-depth conversations, join us here: facebook.com/groups/lapavonienthusiastsgroup
@@JohnMichaelHauck Your video was *so useful*. So, my Pavoni Pro bought in 2019 is equipped with a thermal fuse that I can reset. That's very good news. Let's see if I can bring this machine back to life. Many many thanks for your support to the Pavoni community. Apart from that, John, your work is truly amazing.
Hi All, Currently working on configuring a machine with the red/green switch and the pressure stat. I am curious to know if it is a special type of connector that allows for the hooking up of the two wires (1from a heater element prong and the 2nd wire from the switch) prior to connecting to the top prong on the pressurestat? (see time 11:12 from the video). If you can tell me where I could find it online I would be most appreciative. Thanks!
@@JohnMichaelHauck Or I found that another alternative to buying the whole wiring kit would be to use "T" splices (tab adapters for wires also a possibility) to achieve this function. Saves money and reduces potential waste for the landfill.
Concerning the wiring setup with the thermal fuse and the pressure stat; does the gound wire from the cord get attached with one of the mounting bolts for the heater element? Is there any special significance/purpose for the red wires listed on the dual elements diagram with the on-off/I and II position rocker switches. I would think that as long as the AWG # is the same it should not.
> Concerning the wiring setup with the thermal fuse and the pressure stat; does the gound wire from the cord get attached with one of the mounting bolts for the heater element? Look at time mark 12:51 and you can see the ground wire going to both the base the the bottom of the boiler. > Is there any special significance/purpose for the red wires listed on the dual elements diagram with the on-off/I and II position rocker switches I don't really understand the question. I think a good place to discuss this further (with more qualified eyes than mine) is at facebook.com/groups/lapavonienthusiastsgroup
@@JohnMichaelHauck I went ahead and requested approval to join the group (approval is pending). I just wondering why the red wire is red. I know that green or yellow/green is usually a ground wire and black wires are usually the hot wires carrying current to the switch. I'm just a little fuzzy on understanding whether or not the red wire is just another "phase" wire or if it has some specific purpose? Maybe it's just to make it easier to see on the wiring diagram. Thanks!
@@evw-ri8yt I think most wire harnesses these days are all white. I picked my own set of colors for these models. The colors made sense to me at the time! And yes, it helps to visually follow a wire in the model.
A fabulous piece of work Mr .... Lovely CAD drawings, beautifully explained, all wonderfully detailed. So, a big thankyou for taking the trouble, time and care to showi the workings/history of the La Pavoni on/off switch and the associated wiring to the element, a real education. I've always been slightly muddled with the development of the element and wiring over time; the what happened and when, but that's now cleared up. Much appreciation. Best wishes... Phil (England)
Thank you! An excellent, in depth description of the wiring changes over the years and many generations of La Pavoni. With the help of adapter parts supplied by Stefano's Espresso Care, I was able to convert my 1977 Europiccola (which I purchased new in Bologna) into a pressure controlled heater type of the later generations. It would have been a bit easier having seen your contribution John. Thank you for taking the time.
This is timely and awesome. I just had an electrical short in my millennium pro. This is so handy for taking it apart and checking connections.
Glad to be of help.
Don't forget about the wiring diagrams here too: www.francescoceccarelli.eu/
Please be safe too!
Wow! Just the info I have been looking for, thanks so much!!
Thanks. Enjoy.
@@JohnMichaelHauck I do have a question though, where does the green ground wire from the cord itself attach to? Wouldn't it get mounted to a grounding screww drilled into the base? Are all wires supposed to be the same gage (i.e. 14AWG) regardless of the insulation color?
@@evw-ri8yt I'm not sure what generation you are talking about. The more recent designs have the ground wire running to two locations. One is the base and the other is the bottom of the boiler. My understanding (I am NOT an electrician) is because you want all the metal on any appliance to be grounded, and you cannot rely on the boiler-to-base connection to be conductive (there are gaskets and paint that can get in the way). As for the wire gauge, I've always seen them the same size - and this makes sense since you want to ensure the ground wires are capabile of returning enough current to trip the circuit breaker. Again, I am not an electrician, so it would be best to verify all this with a qualified service technician.
John, what a fantastic resource for the La Pavoni community! Your other CAD videos are also amazing. Thanks for the time and effort you have put into this. I can not tell you enough how illuminating your CAD models have been.
Just a couple of comments about the element wattage as described in this video, based on personal work on multiple Pavonis, and also from Francesco. These specifically refer to the Europiccola.
1. The early Gen1s were 200W & 600W, wired for 200/800, with the 200W element always ON.
2. Later Gen1s moved to 200W & 800W, (wired for 200/800) around 1964. This configuration continued into the early Gen2s.
3. Later Gen2s (around 1980) moved to 200W & 1000W (wired for 200/1000) shortly after the change to the double switch.
4. The abominable short-lived diode version of 1991 used a single 750W element, in a benighted effort to save costs by removing an element, while avoiding a pstat. They finally sprang for a pstat shortly thereafter, using the same 1000 watt element as the Pro.
Side note:
For those wiling to make a simple wiring mod, the double-switch Gen2s are very easy to wire both elements in parallel to max out steaming power (I have a 1988 wired for 200/1200).
It is possible to do this on the one-switch (3-position) late Gen1s and early Gen2s, with the addition of a SPDT relay inside the base. I have done so on a 1979, which now gives me 1000W for steaming.
bravo, thank you for the kudos and additional details. I've never heard anyone call the diode version "abominable" but I would have to agree. When I was modeling the diode, I thought, well this just seems to be out of the box thinking. It must be genius or the opposite.
John remarkable job explaining the wiring evolution using the CAD model.
I have replaced so many components over the years on my La Pavoni I'd have to say it's mostly made up of new parts with the exception of the boiler and the group head. It's similar to owning a vintage 5 speed Alfa Romero...both need regular TLC but when in tune it is pure joy. Thanks for your efforts.
Joseph, thanks for the encouragement.
An Alfa is a pretty cool comparison. A lot of history and a lot of enjoyment. Enjoy your cup tomorrow!
Thank you- this really helped me to troubleshoot my machine. The wires were installed wrong from the factory and your schematic showed me how to wire it correctly! It now works as it should.
That is alarming. I'm interested to hear the details if you have the inclination and time to share.
@@JohnMichaelHauck the wire from the green light should have gone to the heating connection, but instead it was plugged into the temperature sensor. I'm surprised it worked at all, but it created a situation where the heater would never shut off- really causing a lot of pressure to be vented by the pressure relief valve. My friend who owned the machine says it was like that from the time she bought it in the 90s!
Great work, John! Good explanation.
Hi John - I have an October 1987-built LP Professional, bought new and used pretty much daily by me since 11 December that year. Original equipment includes a single-element boiler, a pressurestat, but no safety/cut-out thermostat. The original pressurestat routinely cycled between indicated boiler pressures of 0.8 to about 1.25 bar without triggering the safety valve. The original red simple on/off switch was replaced with a green one when it failed about ten years ago. A few weeks ago I replaced the boiler pressure gauge. Then added a grouphead pressure gauge from the always excellent Coffee Sensor. And yesterday I fitted a Bong Isolator. I'm also using the CS stainless steel naked portafilter, which is bliss, with a 20g basket. And since a few days ago, a IMS Precision shower screen. So, both original equipment and recent additions, all likely to confound anyone wanting to know how it left the factory! Thanks for your truly magnificent walk-around the LP block, which I've only just discovered, and will be coming back to many times.
Hi Allen! These indeed are wonderful machines that last forever. Because the design is so stable, a pressure profiling kit from Tudor at Coffee Sensor works on your older machine as well as my newer ones off the factory in Milan today. I was privileged to work with Bong on designing the Isolator for Tudor's store. What a cool community!
Let me know if there are other CAD videos you would like to see.
Great video for a newbie who was trying to figure out what model year he purchased. Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great job man! Thank you!
Michele, Thank you!
Fantastic work, thank you so much 🙏
Vielen Dank!
I was just looking at these espresso machines, and was wondering how to tell the difference between new vs old. I love seeing the differences so that we can easily determine what is what.
If the group head is not bolted on, then generation 1 (1961-1974)
If the top of the group head is 50mm (it looks skinny compared to the bottom of the group head), then generation 2 (1975-2001)
If the top of the group head is 60mm (it looks fatter), then generation 3 (2001+)
If the lever is curved then generation 4 (2005+)
I think the diode at 9:18 (Gen 2.3a 1991) simply eliminates half of the alternating current by cancelling out one direction of the current - or one half of the wave in other words. ( See more at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternating_current .)
Waouh thanks for the wiring evolution ! Very helpful.
Glad it helped
Wow...best tutorial I've ever watched! Thanks John! --- I bought a new Professional-16 cup in 97 or 98 and my wife and I have each enjoyed a cup every day. I've rebuilt it a few times over the years but I let the underside rust and have had to use plastic filler where the rust holes have eaten away at the base. It's so beat up that it sort of looks like Willie Nelson's guitar Trigger!
I replaced all the wires a decade ago and a couple of years ago I had a company in San Diego, Jim Duke, replace the element but I don't think they replaced the base unit that the element mounts onto. Are the element and the element base unit separate? Do you have to replace the element base unit with the element? Also, I think my model is the one in your video that starts at the 7:30 mark but I'm not sure because all model tags are long gone on mine. I'm trying to find a wiring diagram. Do you have a link for a wiring diagram for the Professional 1997-98? Thanks again!!
I'm not a huge expert in electronics but I'll guess the diode will cut the sine wave of the AC in half and therefore will only let half the power through to the heating element
That makes a ton of sense. Thanks for bringing up how a diode could reduce the power to the heating element. Electricity is weird.
@JohnMichaelHauck and to you sir, huge thanks for making this cad models.
That is the single best reference for differentiating between all the models.
Now I know what to look for when buying my first Europiccola second hand.
Thank you very helpful
Glad it helped
I've relied heavily on Francesco Ceccarelli's wonderful website for information: www.francescoceccarelli.eu/
Hello thanks for a detailed video. I have the version 3.2a with the diode. How ever the diode is broken. Do you know of a suitable replacement? Thanks :)
I honestly do not know. Perhaps you might check with coffee-sensor.com/
Send them a message and they will help you out.
Ok next question...........In the diagram for the double element heater at time 7:57, where does the brown wire going from the "off" terminal attach to? Looking at the diagram above, it looks like it is between the element and the boiler flange. Also, why are there only two wires shown (blue and brown) coming out of the power cord?
Oooh, a wierd render glitch. Look at 8:02. It appears the lug did not render. It goes to the terminal on top that already has one brown wire.
There is no ground wire in this render. If there was, it should go to the base and the bottom of the boiler to be safest.
You can always go to www.francescoceccarelli.eu/lapavoni_schemi_eng.htm for real pictures.
Hello! Amazing work! Can I ask you which cable carries the incoming electrical current? And what is the return?
In Italy the standard is that the brown cable is the Live (or phase) while the blue cable is the Neutral (or return). The ground is yellow and green. Thanks, congratulations.
Walter, the CAD model does not allow a mutli-color cable, so for ground I selected yellow. As for the live vs. neutral colors, I tried to remain true to the colors as documented by Francesco Ceccarelli (link in the video's description) where it seems the blue wire is usually the one that goes directly to the switch. The problem with real product photos is following the wires is difficult, so I clearly could have made a mistake here and there, especially since many of the wires are white. For dual-element machines, I used red for the high power element and green for the low. As I stated above, electrical service is only to be performed by qualified persons.
so what about the model (i believe it is one from the 1970's or 1980's) where there is an inline thermal cut off (not re-settable). Do those units have any way to regulate heating? Do they auto-shut off once they reach a certain temp? Or is that the responsibility of the userr to turn them off?
Are you speaking of this one?
www.francescoceccarelli.eu/La_Pavoni/Schemi/ep/ep84-87.JPG
Units before 1990 (including the one I think you are talking about) did not have a pressurestat. A pressurestat turns the heater off when the boiler pressure reaches a set point (often 0.8 bar). If there is no pressurestat, then there is no electronic regulation of the heating.
Many units before 1990 had a low and high heating system, that you could manually choose. With those units, the pressure release valve opened up around 1 bar, which kept the temperature down (by releasing heat in the form of steam). So it would be part of normal operation to have steam hissing from pre 1990 units.
With the pressurestat then, the pressure release valve is really more of a backup safety feature that does not open to release steam under normal operation. So it opens at a higher pressure (I'm guessing 2 bar but I don't really know).
Take all the above with a grain of salt. I am not an expert in these things. This is my CURRENT understanding. Cheers!
Hi John. First of all, thanks for this useful video. 14:15 Your cursor roll over a short horizontal brown cable. Is this the inline thermo fuse?
This is not a fuse, but just a simple wire. I colored it brown in the CAD model to indicate it is connected to the incoming brown line from the power cord. In this model, the thermal fuse is the black cylinder in the center of the boiler bottom plate. The red button is the reset switch. I hope that helps. For more in-depth conversations, join us here:
facebook.com/groups/lapavonienthusiastsgroup
@@JohnMichaelHauck Your video was *so useful*. So, my Pavoni Pro bought in 2019 is equipped with a thermal fuse that I can reset. That's very good news. Let's see if I can bring this machine back to life. Many many thanks for your support to the Pavoni community. Apart from that, John, your work is truly amazing.
@@rdmc43 Thanks. I learned a lot from this awesome site: www.francescoceccarelli.eu/lapavoni_schemi_eng.htm
Hi All,
Currently working on configuring a machine with the red/green switch and the pressure stat. I am curious to know if it is a special type of connector that allows for the hooking up of the two wires (1from a heater element prong and the 2nd wire from the switch) prior to connecting to the top prong on the pressurestat? (see time 11:12 from the video). If you can tell me where I could find it online I would be most appreciative. Thanks!
You can get a full wire harness here coffee-sensor.com/product-category/la-pavoni-parts-and-accessories-custom-made-from-coffee-sensor/cables-wires/
@@JohnMichaelHauck Or I found that another alternative to buying the whole wiring kit would be to use "T" splices (tab adapters for wires also a possibility) to achieve this function. Saves money and reduces potential waste for the landfill.
Concerning the wiring setup with the thermal fuse and the pressure stat; does the gound wire from the cord get attached with one of the mounting bolts for the heater element? Is there any special significance/purpose for the red wires listed on the dual elements diagram with the on-off/I and II position rocker switches. I would think that as long as the AWG # is the same it should not.
> Concerning the wiring setup with the thermal fuse and the pressure stat; does the gound wire from the cord get attached with one of the mounting bolts for the heater element?
Look at time mark 12:51 and you can see the ground wire going to both the base the the bottom of the boiler.
> Is there any special significance/purpose for the red wires listed on the dual elements diagram with the on-off/I and II position rocker switches
I don't really understand the question. I think a good place to discuss this further (with more qualified eyes than mine) is at facebook.com/groups/lapavonienthusiastsgroup
@@JohnMichaelHauck I went ahead and requested approval to join the group (approval is pending). I just wondering why the red wire is red. I know that green or yellow/green is usually a ground wire and black wires are usually the hot wires carrying current to the switch. I'm just a little fuzzy on understanding whether or not the red wire is just another "phase" wire or if it has some specific purpose? Maybe it's just to make it easier to see on the wiring diagram. Thanks!
@@evw-ri8yt I think most wire harnesses these days are all white. I picked my own set of colors for these models. The colors made sense to me at the time! And yes, it helps to visually follow a wire in the model.
@@JohnMichaelHauck Good to know, thanks!