Whoever made that 20 tester rule is an absolute ape with room temperature IQ, it's mind boggling how you can't expect adequacy even from the biggest, well funded companies
I work at Google and I build a lot of tiny android apps in my free time. I am equally furious at this policy as the rest of the people in the comment section.
Google hates indie devs since they don't bring in much money. They needed us to build up the Play Store and now they're trying to get rid of us like yesterday's jam.
Ask Steam if they don't bring much money... and the better Indie games are made from 1 or 2 developers. More developers does not equal better games or better apps. That Google requirement is just crazy. Some game developers commission part of the art to other people... but they can't use these people as testers... also 20 people is crazy number.
@@karmatrainingconsidering the vast majority of in app purchases are made by whales who want some sort of perceived status to show up on others, that checks out. That mindset doesn't lend itself with buying an Android.
@@karmatrainingIf you use "in-app revenue" as a guide then that's going to bias your results. After all, Apple's app store and ecosystem is the one that pushes devs to make free apps with micro-transactions out the ends of the earth... And, unless things have radically changed in the last 5-10 years then they also push those transactions through an in-house payment system and collect some fees.
I've never been in a project with more than 2 testers working simultaneously. And I speak banking apps, payment processing. The guy who took this crazy decision needs his pills.
Just look at google projects and their source code. You need 2 guys to verify a printf is printing out the right results. All this testing hype the last 5 to 10 years is coming from the big tech.
Same. Many times, it's honestly been no testers. Where I work currently does have a well defined testing process, but even there we still only have a small handful of testers. Definitely nowhere near 20.
@@NathanButh pretty much everywhere the entire team plus product owner(s) is not more than 10 persons. So if this rule is true, it is doomed to be discarded.
I can see where are they coming from. Good project can get 20 people that sign off to it. Amount of garbageware you will be able to stop from being deployed there is huge. I would do it differently, but seeing how oversaturated market is now, correlated with average quality of project deployed with no restriction, while easier entry barrier, is something that cant be sustainable. How would you solve this problem?
@@ezracramer1370so basically they're saying "mid and large corporations only". No to indies, single devs, garage devs, small companies or even large companies that have mobile apps on the side.
They always were, only thing that was positve about android. Open source etc. they have been activly underminding. Pushing their own propriatory sercices, Play store, play services, etc.
As of November: If you ask for external storage you have to justify it now they are strict about it and your app can be rejected if they don't agree that it is necessary.
It’s now “be only as evil as the shareholders require” (I have come to the conclusion that publically traded companies often become corrupted in their mission and ethics because of this slavery to mammon- greed at all costs because of their focus on the shareholders instead of the employees, customers, and company ideals.
That's ridiculous, I don't like where Google is headed. But one comment that made me laugh among the dev community is "This assumes I know 20 people" 😅
Even if you do know 20 people or have 5000+ FB friends. 1) do you trust the chosen 20 people to test your app thoroughly? 2) do those people want to spend THEIR time to test your app? Mind you that they might not even be interested in the app.
I saw the verification last week and was surprised what more data they wanted from us. But WTF?! I just woke up literally and now I need to look for 20 people to test my app that I worked so hard? Also some developers publish their personal app as a portfolio so someone can easily check their work. This year was crazy everyone want to screw indie dev and follow Unity’s bad decisions I guess.
When I worked for IBM as a Technical Lead, a small App we were developing for American Express was tested by only 5 beta testers, all provided by American Express. If we were to add in the developers on my team as "beta testers", we still wouldn't get nearly 20 testers in total. IBM would have had to incur extra costs to meet that arbitrary number of 20. Google's policy is dumb. 🙄
@@smthngsmthngsmthngdarkside - I wonder if you even have a job! In a corporation, especially a huge corporation like IBM, you'd get your arse handed to you if you got help just by asking a colleague. There is a _billing process_ for all technical staff, and you _must_ have management approval to add anyone new on a project. *You are clearly a Troll.*
@@rosepainting8775 I mean if you did any markets research, you must have arrived at conclusion that "google play" is not very lucrative overall, especially if you flying solo. On the other hand, if you look how much garbage there is, I think good project should not be impossible to be "tested" by 20 people. Also I dont understand how everyone is pretending that Google play is the best or most lucrative place to be. Most smaller projects make peanuts, people are only blinded by some miracles, but generally to get even minimum wage you would have to be super lucky, market is oversaturated.
Over the past decades I have written many corporate applications and I can say without a doubt that not a SINGLE application had 20 testers. In fact, we typically had two or three testers in addition to the developer testing his own code.
@@EntangleIT There was only one project I worked on that had a ton of testers. Windows 95. It had tens of thousands of testers international. I was in the top percentile with 65% recreatable bugs. But that is so important to get right the first time...
I've tested many things and even having 20 tester doesn't guarantee quality if all the requirements are a mess. Also there are so many edges cases phone types but you are never going to catch all the issues
5:21 Google should realize this is an easier thing for scammers to finish than it is for honest developers to do, especially those of us with a condition like PTSD that limits how easy it is to talk to other people.
@@AMabud-lv7hy Sort of. Android allows you to install apps downloaded anywhere, so if there's any apps you like that get kicked off, you can continue downloading them and installing them through a web browser. There are several websites cataloging apps not on the Play Store but none of them are overly noteworthy at the moment. Maybe this change could bring them some more users.
I work at a company with +50K employees, and my project has one tester and one developer. It's not an android app, but our development team is still only one dev, one sme, one tester and one project manager. The client does provide testing and guidence too, but I think our whole team is under 10 people.
This is obviously intentional. They have actively been trying to remove solo and indie developers from the platform for years. I actually was thinking at one point of going full time developing apps and games for phones, so I tested the waters by writing a small app that provided realtime information about the bus system in my town and published it free with ads. At first it looked promising and people where happy using it and I even made some small amount of ad revenue at first but then Google suddenly banned my ad account because they said my app was fake, which it obvously wasn't, and even though I contacted them and explained in detail why my app wasn't fake, they never replied or reverted their decision. So in a split second all my ad revenue was taken and it was impossible for me to use Google ads ever again. They also regularly deprecate older versions of the API and require you to rewrite and update your app. This means that it's basically a full time job just maintaining an app even thought there are no actual changes required for the app.
This is nonsensical, even for Google's standards! If this policy isn't adjusted to be more reasonable, it might be about time to look at moving to Web development, where at least you have control over your own development & deployment lifecycle... Very disappointing
I bet google doesn't even use 20 tester for their apps.... They just want to stop solo projects 🙂 totally a good way to stop good upcoming developers... With recent decisions google making, I think an AI is running google rn
@@fab_code Only if we assume that Google designed the AI that is running their company. Otherwise this statement is an insult to every competent AI developer in the world.
i thought they had AI running the company for some time...i seem to recall a story about google using AI for some HR processes like...5 or 6 years ago.
This introduces a big disparity between people who already have existing personal accounts (who just need to verify their identity once and can publish as many apps as they want without restrictions) and people with new accounts who, besides identify verification, will need to find 20 testers for each and every single app they publish now and forever. Like people before 13 November 2023 could be trusted and people coming after can't. Interesting...
If finding 20 testers for your app feels too big of a task to overcome, then maybe it's best that the app is not published in the store after all - since no one is interested in it anyway.
@@Haapavuoit's a chicken and egg problem. Of course nobody is interested in the app that nobody saw yet. Why would random people go through the hustle of signing up as testers? Sure, they are the unicorn apps that explode in 1 week. But that's rarer than lottery winners. The rest have 1 new user per day if they're lucky. And if they grow, great. If they don't, they disappear.
@@Haapavuoenlighten us, you going knocking door? In all weather's! 🤯Your amazing your a hero your a real man. Scam groups can be bigger than 20, they have access to a lot of stolen identities, but oh well it's all good. Your smarter than us. Thank you 🤡
@@Haapavuo We are talking about dedicated testers and not users. And how would you get people interested in an app if you can't even publish it? Not everyone has 20 people you can just pitch an app to test. Your take is just absolute trash
@@tafelsalz1 you are incorrect. Please read the Google document. It mentions PEOPLE, not testers. To me it is clear that you can get those from your potential userbase to gain feedback. Check the facts before blaming my answer.
Google play is just the worst place for open source developers You need to pay to create an account - even if you don't earn money from your project You need to verify yourself by providing your details - even if you are not selling anything And you need 20 testers - to make your project popular you need to somehow advertise it to other people, it's just hard
I could see companies springing into existence that offer beta testing by 20 people explicitly for this requirement. At least they don't have to be employees of your company, which is what I thought when I read the video title.
This new individual developer policy could (sure will) potentially hurt many devs. I agree with having a higher-quality apps. (who doesn't?) But the majority of indie devs having to find at least 20 testers is indeed a mission impossible! I think Google is trying to play big, since there's almost if none comparable application store competition on Android. I think this move comes from a pure monopoly perspective. Not sure if the EU could do something about this specific case in Europe. This is ridiculous!!!!
I don't think the EU cares. All they care about is data privacy and that is nothing to do with it. So, what next Google? Probably ban alternative app stores like Apple did?
A typical example of somebody in charge, who got there to fill mandatory checks and have zero experience in such matters. My company has 750 employees, few apps, about 2-3 testers on each and everything works totally fine. Like how the F would anybody consider 20 testers anywhere near reasonable?
"Like how the F would anybody consider 20 testers anywhere near reasonable?" maybe they mean non-permanent-QA-staff testers, but merely people who've shared the beta to test it with?
@@foljs5858 But using non dedicated testers means the testing will be trash, so the goal of apps being higher quality or whatever fake statement they did in attempt to justify it, would be absolutely destroyed. In that case you can just keep the old system, let ppl test it,give feedback and let the rating system work its magic, right?
Oh yes. Something bad happens. Must be a non-white male. What a joke. The truth is that the play store gets a lot of apps that they have to test. Many don't make money but they all have to be tested internally. So they introduce a rule that will reduce the number of apps without blocking people from uploading. They absolutely know this will result in fewer apps thats why it's 20 and not 10. I just love how everything is just "this must have been done by a non white male" Use your brain.
Depends on what they mean by testers too. If they just want someone who has installed the app and run it once then, this is a bit stupid, if they want 20 full time employees working around the clock with a debugger trying repeatedly to crash the app and trigger various different failure states, then yeah they're full on insane. If it's the former, this isn't really that different from how Steam discovery works (unless you have at least 10 reviews on a new game you release within 0-3 days of release, no one will find your game and Steam will bury it).
Wow, that is absolutely insane. I started programming 1 1/2 years ago and am working on an application for ~1 year and I will never be able to publish it with these new changes.
@@mryup6100 I started learning Android more than 1 year ago, I started developing my first app a few months ago and I was so excited to publish it on the store, and now poof... dream destroyed
This is insane. FWIW the Developer pages presently state that the "20 tester rule" only applies to newly-created personal accounts created after November 13, 2023. For some poor personal developers like myself that have not already created a Google Play account this really sucks. I also bet that all accounts will eventually be impacted.
exactly, i had developer account (paid 25 bucks few years ago) today i logged in to set up game page but account was deactivated because it was inactive. I was like, okay, i can afford to pay 25 bucks one more time so i get new account and boom, i was introduced with this new rules, most frustrating thing is that i could not find any info regarding this change of rules until i paid for new account…
@@KataKuraa Time for a chargeback in that case. Introducing additional conditions for the use of an account after receiving payment is considered false advertising in the majority of countries.
@@rendomstranger8698Just be aware, if you do this, consider your whole Google account (and likely any other Google accounts you have) to be considered dead. Most companies are like this, but a Google account tends to have a lot more weight with people than the average company/retailer account.
So I just joined google play a few months ago and it was interesting that everyone said that how easy it is to go through these steps, but obviously it was hard for me as a solo developer to gain 20 testers, and this video made me realize that I just created my account after the Google Play Policy apdate...
Google as a company have been going on a downhill with crazy decisions. Maybe they believe now they own a lot of the market but it can quickly channge if they continue on this path.
The requirement is that each of the 20 testers must have been opted-in continuously for the last 14 days. This means that each tester needs to use the app continuously for 14 days, ensuring they provide feedback consistently over that period. It's not about random usage by different testers, but rather about ensuring sustained engagement from each individual tester over the specified timeframe.
Damn! What about people who are starting with Android and want to publish some kind of beginner apps to get themselves going and boost up their confidence. Also to get full time jobs, we need to show proof to the recruiters that we have a good enough app or two on the Play Store that does solve some problems on a smaller level. Can't they think that people who are starting with Android will have to publish some basic apps, and as they aren't backed by any industry, how will they find 20 testers?!! As someone who wants to learn Android development, this is just discouraging man 😢ಥ_ಥ
Lol Google play is not a place for tests, demo or beginners app just to make a strong portfolio. And the recruiter asks for 2 published apps from an experienced developer for big products not just for any random app published in the play Store and most of the time it's not mandatory. They actually tests your skills in mobile app development and how you manage publishing apps and updates. And what about iOS developers?? They ask the same 2 published apps in the App store but you won't see many beginners apps in the Apple app Store. People like you might be the reason they are coming with this absurd policy. Because a Google developer account only costs one time 25-30 dollars that's why people are uploading anything in the play Store whereas Apple developers cost 99 dollars per year so this can restrict many developers to publish anything in the App Store as not all developers will pay 99 dollars every year...
@@deepakbisht4957 Well if that's the case,then Google can figure smtg else out,like just make a different section for these type of apps to show that they care about the new ones in this domain and promote learning Android, or include a check for the app while publishing if it's a beginner type or not. I'm saying that this policy will affect learners as when learning Android as often the final step is to learn to publish on play Store. And as for indie devs,they might have a great app idea, but won't be able to fulfill the testers requirements,bcoz even a small to medium organisation doesn't have 20 smtg testers to test ur app for 2 weeks There can other methods to achieve the objective for which Google has implemented this policy U misunderstood my comment, I meant even someone who is currently in the process of learning may also have a great app idea and will also get it developed, but won't be able to publish due to this policy. I'm not talking about the apps like boilerplate counter apps,they serve no purpose.
@@deepakbisht4957 what is it a place for? is a bunch of test apps any worse than the 10 billion candy crush/bejewled clones which utilize false advertisement and click farms to grow their playerbase? same applies to all of these various app/game stores. they're already filled with absolute garbage. ah yes, elitism. "nothing you personally do matters to us. unless it's behind a big name/budget, we don't want to see it". solo and small teams quite often are producing much higher quality output than the big guys. exactly how the modern indie scene got so big. evaluating your actual ability to perform the task makes more sense. also, because so many people work on large projects, "i worked on this big project" by itself is actually meaningless compared against "i dreamt/designed, built, tested, and deployed this myself". with the fees to publish to the iOS store, you won't find any beginners. you also won't find the genuinely good ones outside of word-of-mouth recommendation, primarily. i also guarantee you'll find plenty of wash-outs and "i'm not bothering with this shit" types. the content policies also drive even established apps/companies down. also, with the multitude of anti-consumer, anti-competitive, anti-developer, anti-everything things apple has done, they're the last company to model anything from. based on current trends, it's quite likely something far more sinister is afoot. also, i doubt test apps impact google particularly much. and *that* kind of restriction doesn't make sense even for a lot of larger projects. this just adds to the list of reasons i don't want to develop for android, myself. or tbh, have anything to do with any of the "smart" phones. i'm so sick of the downright stupid and/or malicious decisions made by their manufacturers CONSTANTLY, which negatively impact everyone and everything else. i don't have time, resources, or interest to deal with this. i would actually have to take those AWAY from potentially making anything good by navigating and even potentially having to PAY for all this BS. but oh, that's why these digital stores are filled to the brim with CRAPPs. because people actually attempting to release a PRODUCT cannot compete with the lazy/shady companies/people purely in it for profit and fame. ironic the flash portals worked so much better with almost no restrictions outside of the ToS and applicable law. the really bad stuff, is/was *buried*. because the players hated it, and they gave it bad ratings/comments. also didn't have fraudulent ads and click-farms to artificially boost the ratings and userbase of the latest clone of a clone of a clone of clone of a clone....... of bejeweled or whatever else CONSTANTLY. in fact, google should work on vetting their ads, which are frequently used for purposes of deploying scams and malware. also, either them or the FTC cracking-down hard on misleading ones. that'd solve so many of the problems, right there.
Feels like it's designed to be burdensome to drive people towards the org route and getting a DUNS number, which doesn't really do much. The fly-by-night scammers will have no problem doing whatever they need to do to get an app in front of someone.
Yes. I am a self employed developer (1 man show) and I applied for the D.U.N.S. number. It's just a few clicks. So if this saves me from having to find 20 testers, then great. Gee some, of my customers I write apps for don't even have 20 employees.
@@NorbertHarrer I was thinking that as well, but the problem is you have to provide a phone number that gets verified. And that number will be published as contact info in Play store. I have my own company (just me) but work from my home office and I do not have a published company phone number. I'm NOT going to publish my cell phone number in the Play Store.
Google needs to open a branch of Google Play dedicated to testing apps. Probably wouldn't be too difficult to get 20 testers, and Google would be able to easily verify it.
wow, this is INSANE!! Google is ensuring that no one will learn to develop on their platform first as a new mobile dev giving all apps a head start on Apple and very slow follow up to the Play Story after. Medium and large companies don't just have 20 people assigned to test an app for 2 weeks. What are they thinking!
I don't like where google is headed, I don't like where android is headed. With every update apps become more and more restricted. I'm just starting with developing apps and I already want to quit
Can u help form a team where we can make a group of testers that can help each other. I can test your game or app and u can test my games. Please reply.
There's no way Indian and Chinese scammers will ever be able to find 20 people to test their app. You totally screwed them over with this one Google. Super chad move
This only affects new accounts. Personal accounts CREATED after November 13, 2023 are affected by the 20 tester policy. Existing personal accounts aren't required to do this. For new accounts, easier to just setup a business account.
I want to say goodbye to the android programming. The reason for this goodbye is not only Google's new policy. Rather, it is a series of illogical actions by Google over the years, and this new policy only made me sure. 1- Incomplete and vague documentation, 2- Sudden changes, 3- Differences in the Android operating system of mobile manufacturers (for example, battery optimization mechanism), 4- Different architectures for application development, 5- The need to write a lot of code to do a small task, 6- The fear of destroying the Google Developer account for various reasons. Android is an operating system that is fun and cool for the consumer and painful for the developer. Web development is much more enjoyable than android development. I tried it and it was true.
And here I'm coming from web dev to android dev ☠ , i just started going through the course on the official docs and after I saw that 20 testers requirement, I really became demotivated and then kept thinking if this is worth it, finally somehow convinced myself to atleast make the apps for myself, if someone else will use it thats fine. Can also go the LLC route where I think you wouldnt have to get these 20 testers
I'm actually happy for this. People need to learn to find APKs and install them and not just rely on Google Play and crippled apps that are only crippled to comply with Google's policies. The fewer big tech middle men between you and running the right software on your device, the better.
OMG this is just ridiculous!! Thanks for making this video i didn't even realize that there was an email sent for this. Putting an app on google play should be a full time job at this point, for people to deal with this kind of bs. Google are laterally trying to make android developers hate their lives with this nonsense.
But then, what's the point in having those testers? As any scammer can find his 20 scammer friends (most likely not even real) to verify that app is legit. This rule sounds bonkers, at best.
If google's intentions were really to improve apps users' experience, they would let developers choose whether they want to provide their verification information and then let users choose, whether they want to list all the apps in the store or only those from verified developers.
I have done subjective tests for Mobile Cloud Gaming and i struggled to get over 20 people to participate in the experiment. I was asking friends, family and students at the university.
Can u help form a team where we can make a group of testers that can help each other. I can test your game or app and u can test my games. Please reply. I am in similar situation as u so please reply
20?! Man this sucks! I was seriously planning on releasing some apps to the playstore next year to better improve my resume. Now idk who's worse, Google or Apple.
Please explain what's wrong with apple? I'm a Android user. But doesn't apple just ask for 100 up front every year? I know it's greedy but better than what Google is trying to become. Next they will charge for every download
@@MrXlee1967 You're exactly right, while Google charges $25 for a lifetime access, the concept of paying $99 EVERY YEAR just seemed so absurd to me in comparison 😂 But now I really don't know man, I know both Android and iOS, but I was leaning towards the playstore because of its ease. At this rate, might as well jump over to Apple before Google truly charges per download 🤣
@@MrXlee1967 100/yr ads-up fast on increasingly stretched [thanks to corpos] budgets. you have to actually make that money back. and it's pretty hard for indie devs and/or anyone honest to do that. that said, apple [and google] is just EVIL. it's to the point they only do good when legal issues are raised. it goes well beyond the app stores. they're just...horrible.... but, they own, well, basically us. same goes for : wal mart, amazon, nestle, disney, basically if it's a large company, you can blame a significant amount of ours and the world's suffering on them in some way.
u not only need to test it for 2 weeks, users also must not delete your app for this period and laucnh it few times (instructions not clear from google), or that user will not be counted
The problem weirdly is that they add verification but instead of letting you verify whenever you want they have this que where you ARENT able to submit until your 60 days starts. Would have been cool if they just didn’t put a time limit to start verifying and just had you in a verifying state for how long it takes their small verification team instead ❤
I was worried until i realized that i have already joined the Philip's Discord server. It is definitely going to be very helpful, Thanks philip for the information !
A better way to achieve high-quality apps is for Google to simply ask their review team to test and ensure the quality of apps before publishing them on the Play Store. But if Google prefers it their way, then I think the number of testers should be reduced from 20 to 5 or less. What do you think?
1 - the solo dev can test it alone as always, manually, and automated and using AI, and Google can and should be using testing upon submission using AI tools especially lately.
Its crazy to require it, id rather it just give particular privileges if you have the 20 testers, so then youd just make it a preference if you want it to be "verified"
They target the bushiness, they don't want the individual people no more, because non company devs will never offer paid app. And they don't want to admit this publicly, so they update the standards to only AAA companies can keep up, but for some reason the malware and scambait software will still be available, like they got a contract or something.
Instead of all this BS, Google should work to improve their customer support. Leave about their replies in case of play console account suspension, even their Google one support team sucks. They've no idea what they're saying.
I worked in teams which developed automotive and banking apps and there was never more than 2 testers for all platforms (web/iOS/android). How big apps you must develop to have 20 testers?
I work at a Fortune 100 company with 70,000+ employees. If I rounded up all the devs, designers, project managers, and QA staff on my team, we would still not be at 20.
I feel like I'm shifting to other 'non-popular' market place out there. If google becomes even more hostile with their terrible policy, then it's a green light for me to move on and pack my things up.
imagine spending the whole of 2023 teaching yourself how to make an android app, learning graphich and technical design, learning different libraries, learning testing, learning git, and as you approach the final experimental iteration thinking of how close you are to publishing, CZcams recommends you this video. FML 😢
The only good-quality android games are made by indie devs. So they want to leave only trash "donate every second" games that don't even have any content?
I bet there will be a discord server or WhatsApp group or hell, even something like a Facebook group where people will be able to get together 20 or more indie developers to cross-test apps. It's not great, but a solution isn't completely out of the question. I know in university, even our tiny weekly programming assignments had to be run by 20 different people before submission, and everyone in class just ran everyone else's executables once or twice from the share drive.
I REFUSE. It's been a great journey for one decade, my fellow android developers. Moving into another software development field in 2024 is my new top priority, BYE BYE ANDROID!!
True! So many redundant process they added. Even the 'tester' feature I think is a huge red flag and time consuming. Until play store simplify their process without losing the quality of their secured process, devs will not feel the pain. devs like me.
And I'm still trying to understand Scoped Storage and writing ProGuard rules. Why do they have to make this so damn complicated and now just abusively demanding. And it also discriminates against introverts.
@@godswillenyinnaya932 not yet... It almost took me 10 days to gather testers & 14 days to test it... i.e almost a month. Then they were reviewing my app with some questions. This was testing phase. Now I need to publish the updated version for the production with bundle apk and all information to fill again. I got irritated from all this so stopped!😑..will do later now. Just to publish one fukin app taking a lifetime to complete
Gauging the quality of an app based on the number of *testers* you have is like measuring time by counting how many clocks you have. They're not exactly unrelated, but it's the wrong parameter to measure. What ever happened to automated software testing?
This is so true. Apple is still the worst. The amount of hours I've spent on App Connect answering silly questions, changing the app, waiting for them to review again is insane. Nowadays I try to avoid developing apps at all cost. If it can be done on the web in the browser, this is the way.
The new CEO of Google, is from India Sundar Pichai , most testers are from India... Conflict of interest. He simply wants to give his people more jobs.
I don't like where Android as a whole is going. From an open platform different from ios, it's now basically following apple's footsteps but worse. I am ok with verification but tester thing is simply a attack against indie developers
crazy is the new normal for google, these days, when apps are published they first have to be approved by google they are just lazy with this system and hence so many malicious apps get published, it all started with the app permissions and now there are so many its like there are diverse permissions for each different new version of android , had they kept a proper approval team these issues had not been there is first place, they just want to shift their work load on developers, its same with the various apis and dev tools they provide, and expect developers to figure out their own way, now you just dont have to be a developer but also go through all this testing business, hope they dont ask screenshots and screen recording of the test that we have to do
Non-issue for scammers, issue for solo devs. Awsome rule.
Sad
True! I was just thinking.. couldn't I just fake these coworkers. And then, couldn't low effort people do the same?
Google: you need 20 friends
Developer: okay! Come here cat, dog, hamster, parrot, snake, goldfish, tarantula, turtle, monkey, lizard, iguana…
Whoever made that 20 tester rule is an absolute ape with room temperature IQ, it's mind boggling how you can't expect adequacy even from the biggest, well funded companies
@@ithamarlowe6158haha yes
Google has attacked the weakness of developers.... 20 friends 🙂
exactly lol
emotional damage is real...
True
20 fake testers are going to be the latest Uber for some unnecessary b.s
Wanna be friends?
I work at Google and I build a lot of tiny android apps in my free time. I am equally furious at this policy as the rest of the people in the comment section.
You an Android dev?
You an Android dev?
@@abhijeetsingh115 Nah. I am a generalist software engineer. So, I get to work on a lot of different things.
@@vighnesh153 you my friend have balls to write this here.
@@kirkanos771 well, I publish my hobby apps as an individual. So, this policy affects me as an individual app publisher. 😭
Google hates indie devs since they don't bring in much money. They needed us to build up the Play Store and now they're trying to get rid of us like yesterday's jam.
Ask Steam if they don't bring much money... and the better Indie games are made from 1 or 2 developers. More developers does not equal better games or better apps. That Google requirement is just crazy. Some game developers commission part of the art to other people... but they can't use these people as testers... also 20 people is crazy number.
Android phones account for over 70% of handsets worldwide, but less than a third of in-app revenues. That's some store they've built up!
@@karmatrainingconsidering the vast majority of in app purchases are made by whales who want some sort of perceived status to show up on others, that checks out.
That mindset doesn't lend itself with buying an Android.
@@karmatrainingIf you use "in-app revenue" as a guide then that's going to bias your results.
After all, Apple's app store and ecosystem is the one that pushes devs to make free apps with micro-transactions out the ends of the earth... And, unless things have radically changed in the last 5-10 years then they also push those transactions through an in-house payment system and collect some fees.
@@Slav4o911Sometimes having more people involved can limit the development process.
I've never been in a project with more than 2 testers working simultaneously. And I speak banking apps, payment processing. The guy who took this crazy decision needs his pills.
Just look at google projects and their source code. You need 2 guys to verify a printf is printing out the right results. All this testing hype the last 5 to 10 years is coming from the big tech.
Same. Many times, it's honestly been no testers. Where I work currently does have a well defined testing process, but even there we still only have a small handful of testers. Definitely nowhere near 20.
@@NathanButh pretty much everywhere the entire team plus product owner(s) is not more than 10 persons. So if this rule is true, it is doomed to be discarded.
I can see where are they coming from. Good project can get 20 people that sign off to it. Amount of garbageware you will be able to stop from being deployed there is huge. I would do it differently, but seeing how oversaturated market is now, correlated with average quality of project deployed with no restriction, while easier entry barrier, is something that cant be sustainable. How would you solve this problem?
@@ezracramer1370so basically they're saying "mid and large corporations only". No to indies, single devs, garage devs, small companies or even large companies that have mobile apps on the side.
I think we can all agree that google just wanted to overtake apple in being hostile to developers :D
They always were, only thing that was positve about android. Open source etc. they have been activly underminding. Pushing their own propriatory sercices, Play store, play services, etc.
@@Ryuujin1024 totally agree, i just mean that apple was always ahead in this game. And now google seems to be really motivated to surpass them :D
@@Ryuujin1024I like android app which didn't depends on google play services
@@Ryuujin1024 Well how do you think they make the money to pay 300k engineering saleries ?
@@jakosss how has apple been hostile to devs?
Instead of banning sus apps like banking apps asking for storage info, they decide to make life harder of indie devs
yep, its like they draining the pool cus a guy is drowning
As of November: If you ask for external storage you have to justify it now they are strict about it and your app can be rejected if they don't agree that it is necessary.
Google’s “Don’t be evil” mantra has become an insider joke.
Haven't they removed it quite a while ago?
About ten or more years ago.
It’s now “be only as evil as the shareholders require” (I have come to the conclusion that publically traded companies often become corrupted in their mission and ethics because of this slavery to mammon- greed at all costs because of their focus on the shareholders instead of the employees, customers, and company ideals.
@@Kleinage that's pretty much guaranteed to happen to any company that goes IPO
They removed it. Obviously it is being used for some evil. Atleast they're honest in that
That's ridiculous, I don't like where Google is headed. But one comment that made me laugh among the dev community is "This assumes I know 20 people" 😅
😂😂😂😂😂
Me who's about to make 20 new email address
@@khumokwezimashapa2245man of culture
@@khumokwezimashapa224520 blue stacks instances here i go
Even if you do know 20 people or have 5000+ FB friends.
1) do you trust the chosen 20 people to test your app thoroughly?
2) do those people want to spend THEIR time to test your app? Mind you that they might not even be interested in the app.
I saw the verification last week and was surprised what more data they wanted from us. But WTF?! I just woke up literally and now I need to look for 20 people to test my app that I worked so hard? Also some developers publish their personal app as a portfolio so someone can easily check their work. This year was crazy everyone want to screw indie dev and follow Unity’s bad decisions I guess.
agreed , most first time developers will not have much choice.
When I worked for IBM as a Technical Lead, a small App we were developing for American Express was tested by only 5 beta testers, all provided by American Express.
If we were to add in the developers on my team as "beta testers", we still wouldn't get nearly 20 testers in total. IBM would have had to incur extra costs to meet that arbitrary number of 20.
Google's policy is dumb. 🙄
Ham it up mate.
I'm sure you could:
a) call out down the corridor
b) use that University thesis brain to spin up 20 Android VMs
Come on smoothbrain
@@smthngsmthngsmthngdarkside - I wonder if you even have a job!
In a corporation, especially a huge corporation like IBM, you'd get your arse handed to you if you got help just by asking a colleague.
There is a _billing process_ for all technical staff, and you _must_ have management approval to add anyone new on a project.
*You are clearly a Troll.*
That is just absurd. They are basically kicking out all the solo or indie developers.
I quit my job just to be indie developer and this is what I get to hear now, just wow
Small devs built their stupid ass store. I was one of the first devs on the Android store and Im a solo dev
@@rosepainting8775 I mean if you did any markets research, you must have arrived at conclusion that "google play" is not very lucrative overall, especially if you flying solo. On the other hand, if you look how much garbage there is, I think good project should not be impossible to be "tested" by 20 people. Also I dont understand how everyone is pretending that Google play is the best or most lucrative place to be. Most smaller projects make peanuts, people are only blinded by some miracles, but generally to get even minimum wage you would have to be super lucky, market is oversaturated.
Not really, just make an LLC and you won't need to have 20 users
@@zzzyyyxxxhow
Over the past decades I have written many corporate applications and I can say without a doubt that not a SINGLE application had 20 testers. In fact, we typically had two or three testers in addition to the developer testing his own code.
Ditto; even the largest product team had barely 20 and that was for a large Microsoft Commerce Server 2009 team PLUS all the service teams' testers.
@@EntangleIT There was only one project I worked on that had a ton of testers. Windows 95. It had tens of thousands of testers international. I was in the top percentile with 65% recreatable bugs. But that is so important to get right the first time...
I've tested many things and even having 20 tester doesn't guarantee quality if all the requirements are a mess. Also there are so many edges cases phone types but you are never going to catch all the issues
5:21 Google should realize this is an easier thing for scammers to finish than it is for honest developers to do, especially those of us with a condition like PTSD that limits how easy it is to talk to other people.
exactly 😂😂😂, scammers have good social skills than developers
Does Play have an alternative?
@@AMabud-lv7hy It soon might have.... they will open the box of Pandora with such crazy requirement.
@@AMabud-lv7hyWell it's Android, you can install third party apps from anywhere.
@@AMabud-lv7hy Sort of. Android allows you to install apps downloaded anywhere, so if there's any apps you like that get kicked off, you can continue downloading them and installing them through a web browser. There are several websites cataloging apps not on the Play Store but none of them are overly noteworthy at the moment. Maybe this change could bring them some more users.
I work at a company with +50K employees, and my project has one tester and one developer. It's not an android app, but our development team is still only one dev, one sme, one tester and one project manager. The client does provide testing and guidence too, but I think our whole team is under 10 people.
This is obviously intentional. They have actively been trying to remove solo and indie developers from the platform for years. I actually was thinking at one point of going full time developing apps and games for phones, so I tested the waters by writing a small app that provided realtime information about the bus system in my town and published it free with ads. At first it looked promising and people where happy using it and I even made some small amount of ad revenue at first but then Google suddenly banned my ad account because they said my app was fake, which it obvously wasn't, and even though I contacted them and explained in detail why my app wasn't fake, they never replied or reverted their decision. So in a split second all my ad revenue was taken and it was impossible for me to use Google ads ever again. They also regularly deprecate older versions of the API and require you to rewrite and update your app. This means that it's basically a full time job just maintaining an app even thought there are no actual changes required for the app.
I recently tested my iOS app on an iPhone 7. Truly ancient phone.
It worked!
People have no idea how much work goes into backwards compatibility.
@@karmatrainingAn iPhone 7 is my kid's daily driver. Don't knock it too hard.😄
This is why I develop only web apps instead of mobile apps.
Keep kidding yourself that this doesn't happen on iOS either.
Go on. Stroke it and spooge your ego all over your beautiful walled garden
This is nonsensical, even for Google's standards! If this policy isn't adjusted to be more reasonable, it might be about time to look at moving to Web development, where at least you have control over your own development & deployment lifecycle... Very disappointing
I bet google doesn't even use 20 tester for their apps.... They just want to stop solo projects 🙂 totally a good way to stop good upcoming developers... With recent decisions google making, I think an AI is running google rn
yep AI is now CEO
@@fab_code Only if we assume that Google designed the AI that is running their company. Otherwise this statement is an insult to every competent AI developer in the world.
@@rendomstranger8698 🤣🤣🤣
An AI wouldn't be this dumb. This is clearly human greed leading to stupidity.
i thought they had AI running the company for some time...i seem to recall a story about google using AI for some HR processes like...5 or 6 years ago.
Lol! My app didn't get 20 downloads & they are asking me to test app by 20 users 😅😂😂
broh! 🤣
😂
Same... xD
What's your app about?
Emotional damage 😂
This introduces a big disparity between people who already have existing personal accounts (who just need to verify their identity once and can publish as many apps as they want without restrictions) and people with new accounts who, besides identify verification, will need to find 20 testers for each and every single app they publish now and forever. Like people before 13 November 2023 could be trusted and people coming after can't. Interesting...
If finding 20 testers for your app feels too big of a task to overcome, then maybe it's best that the app is not published in the store after all - since no one is interested in it anyway.
@@Haapavuoit's a chicken and egg problem. Of course nobody is interested in the app that nobody saw yet. Why would random people go through the hustle of signing up as testers? Sure, they are the unicorn apps that explode in 1 week. But that's rarer than lottery winners. The rest have 1 new user per day if they're lucky. And if they grow, great. If they don't, they disappear.
@@Haapavuoenlighten us, you going knocking door? In all weather's! 🤯Your amazing your a hero your a real man. Scam groups can be bigger than 20, they have access to a lot of stolen identities, but oh well it's all good. Your smarter than us. Thank you 🤡
@@Haapavuo We are talking about dedicated testers and not users. And how would you get people interested in an app if you can't even publish it? Not everyone has 20 people you can just pitch an app to test. Your take is just absolute trash
@@tafelsalz1 you are incorrect. Please read the Google document. It mentions PEOPLE, not testers. To me it is clear that you can get those from your potential userbase to gain feedback. Check the facts before blaming my answer.
The best fix for this would be to add a checkmark to apps that have had 20 testers so it's optional
Google play is just the worst place for open source developers
You need to pay to create an account - even if you don't earn money from your project
You need to verify yourself by providing your details - even if you are not selling anything
And you need 20 testers - to make your project popular you need to somehow advertise it to other people, it's just hard
I could see companies springing into existence that offer beta testing by 20 people explicitly for this requirement. At least they don't have to be employees of your company, which is what I thought when I read the video title.
and companies that just say they tested it.
@@tuseroni6085I imagine that some sort of proof will have to be provided, but you're probably right.
Woah you are right. This will be an entirely new job for freelancers or part time workers.
absurd decision. I hope the Android community will not agree on that and Google will change the policy.
Goggles never do that
too late
They don't give a fk about developer complaints.
This new individual developer policy could (sure will) potentially hurt many devs. I agree with having a higher-quality apps. (who doesn't?) But the majority of indie devs having to find at least 20 testers is indeed a mission impossible! I think Google is trying to play big, since there's almost if none comparable application store competition on Android. I think this move comes from a pure monopoly perspective. Not sure if the EU could do something about this specific case in Europe. This is ridiculous!!!!
I don't think the EU cares. All they care about is data privacy and that is nothing to do with it. So, what next Google? Probably ban alternative app stores like Apple did?
A typical example of somebody in charge, who got there to fill mandatory checks and have zero experience in such matters. My company has 750 employees, few apps, about 2-3 testers on each and everything works totally fine. Like how the F would anybody consider 20 testers anywhere near reasonable?
"Like how the F would anybody consider 20 testers anywhere near reasonable?" maybe they mean non-permanent-QA-staff testers, but merely people who've shared the beta to test it with?
@@foljs5858 But using non dedicated testers means the testing will be trash, so the goal of apps being higher quality or whatever fake statement they did in attempt to justify it, would be absolutely destroyed. In that case you can just keep the old system, let ppl test it,give feedback and let the rating system work its magic, right?
Oh yes. Something bad happens. Must be a non-white male.
What a joke. The truth is that the play store gets a lot of apps that they have to test. Many don't make money but they all have to be tested internally. So they introduce a rule that will reduce the number of apps without blocking people from uploading. They absolutely know this will result in fewer apps thats why it's 20 and not 10.
I just love how everything is just "this must have been done by a non white male"
Use your brain.
Depends on what they mean by testers too. If they just want someone who has installed the app and run it once then, this is a bit stupid, if they want 20 full time employees working around the clock with a debugger trying repeatedly to crash the app and trigger various different failure states, then yeah they're full on insane. If it's the former, this isn't really that different from how Steam discovery works (unless you have at least 10 reviews on a new game you release within 0-3 days of release, no one will find your game and Steam will bury it).
Wow, that is absolutely insane. I started programming 1 1/2 years ago and am working on an application for ~1 year and I will never be able to publish it with these new changes.
same, it's just ridiculous!
I feel just the same, but at least I'm just going to focus on finishing it for experience and then I'll see what I can do to publish it.
@@mryup6100 I started learning Android more than 1 year ago, I started developing my first app a few months ago and I was so excited to publish it on the store, and now poof... dream destroyed
If you app is for portfolio you can publish on platforms for open source applications like F-Droid.
@@mryup6100thought about creating 20 emails?
This is insane. FWIW the Developer pages presently state that the "20 tester rule" only applies to newly-created personal accounts created after November 13, 2023. For some poor personal developers like myself that have not already created a Google Play account this really sucks. I also bet that all accounts will eventually be impacted.
exactly, i had developer account (paid 25 bucks few years ago) today i logged in to set up game page but account was deactivated because it was inactive. I was like, okay, i can afford to pay 25 bucks one more time so i get new account and boom, i was introduced with this new rules, most frustrating thing is that i could not find any info regarding this change of rules until i paid for new account…
@@KataKuraa oh wow that sucks, spending money on an account you might not even be able to use .-.
@@KataKuraa Time for a chargeback in that case. Introducing additional conditions for the use of an account after receiving payment is considered false advertising in the majority of countries.
@@rendomstranger8698Just be aware, if you do this, consider your whole Google account (and likely any other Google accounts you have) to be considered dead.
Most companies are like this, but a Google account tends to have a lot more weight with people than the average company/retailer account.
This is insane. Are we going to see a rise in sideloading and alternative app stores?
Huh? The Discord is free: discord.gg/75WDZVD2
@@PhilippLackner ah awesome! I stand corrected! Time to join 😉
Self organising community: do the process, disperse
no
That would be nice. But no. The general population does not care about us developers.
So I just joined google play a few months ago and it was interesting that everyone said that how easy it is to go through these steps, but obviously it was hard for me as a solo developer to gain 20 testers, and this video made me realize that I just created my account after the Google Play Policy apdate...
Google as a company have been going on a downhill with crazy decisions. Maybe they believe now they own a lot of the market but it can quickly channge if they continue on this path.
Yea
As a sage once said, "Cocaine is a hell of a drug."
The requirement is that each of the 20 testers must have been opted-in continuously for the last 14 days. This means that each tester needs to use the app continuously for 14 days, ensuring they provide feedback consistently over that period. It's not about random usage by different testers, but rather about ensuring sustained engagement from each individual tester over the specified timeframe.
Damn! What about people who are starting with Android and want to publish some kind of beginner apps to get themselves going and boost up their confidence.
Also to get full time jobs, we need to show proof to the recruiters that we have a good enough app or two on the Play Store that does solve some problems on a smaller level.
Can't they think that people who are starting with Android will have to publish some basic apps, and as they aren't backed by any industry, how will they find 20 testers?!!
As someone who wants to learn Android development, this is just discouraging man 😢ಥ_ಥ
Lol
Google play is not a place for tests, demo or beginners app just to make a strong portfolio.
And the recruiter asks for 2 published apps from an experienced developer for big products not just for any random app published in the play Store and most of the time it's not mandatory.
They actually tests your skills in mobile app development and how you manage publishing apps and updates.
And what about iOS developers??
They ask the same 2 published apps in the App store but you won't see many beginners apps in the Apple app Store.
People like you might be the reason they are coming with this absurd policy.
Because a Google developer account only costs one time 25-30 dollars that's why people are uploading anything in the play Store whereas Apple developers cost 99 dollars per year so this can restrict many developers to publish anything in the App Store as not all developers will pay 99 dollars every year...
may be u should learn ios? I don't know the policy of ios though.
@@deepakbisht4957 so why not to put cost 99$ a year then if the real reason is that?
@@deepakbisht4957 Well if that's the case,then Google can figure smtg else out,like just make a different section for these type of apps to show that they care about the new ones in this domain and promote learning Android, or include a check for the app while publishing if it's a beginner type or not.
I'm saying that this policy will affect learners as when learning Android as often the final step is to learn to publish on play Store.
And as for indie devs,they might have a great app idea, but won't be able to fulfill the testers requirements,bcoz even a small to medium organisation doesn't have 20 smtg testers to test ur app for 2 weeks
There can other methods to achieve the objective for which Google has implemented this policy
U misunderstood my comment, I meant even someone who is currently in the process of learning may also have a great app idea and will also get it developed, but won't be able to publish due to this policy. I'm not talking about the apps like boilerplate counter apps,they serve no purpose.
@@deepakbisht4957
what is it a place for? is a bunch of test apps any worse than the 10 billion candy crush/bejewled clones which utilize false advertisement and click farms to grow their playerbase? same applies to all of these various app/game stores. they're already filled with absolute garbage.
ah yes, elitism. "nothing you personally do matters to us. unless it's behind a big name/budget, we don't want to see it". solo and small teams quite often are producing much higher quality output than the big guys. exactly how the modern indie scene got so big. evaluating your actual ability to perform the task makes more sense. also, because so many people work on large projects, "i worked on this big project" by itself is actually meaningless compared against "i dreamt/designed, built, tested, and deployed this myself".
with the fees to publish to the iOS store, you won't find any beginners. you also won't find the genuinely good ones outside of word-of-mouth recommendation, primarily. i also guarantee you'll find plenty of wash-outs and "i'm not bothering with this shit" types. the content policies also drive even established apps/companies down. also, with the multitude of anti-consumer, anti-competitive, anti-developer, anti-everything things apple has done, they're the last company to model anything from.
based on current trends, it's quite likely something far more sinister is afoot. also, i doubt test apps impact google particularly much. and *that* kind of restriction doesn't make sense even for a lot of larger projects.
this just adds to the list of reasons i don't want to develop for android, myself. or tbh, have anything to do with any of the "smart" phones. i'm so sick of the downright stupid and/or malicious decisions made by their manufacturers CONSTANTLY, which negatively impact everyone and everything else. i don't have time, resources, or interest to deal with this. i would actually have to take those AWAY from potentially making anything good by navigating and even potentially having to PAY for all this BS. but oh, that's why these digital stores are filled to the brim with CRAPPs. because people actually attempting to release a PRODUCT cannot compete with the lazy/shady companies/people purely in it for profit and fame. ironic the flash portals worked so much better with almost no restrictions outside of the ToS and applicable law. the really bad stuff, is/was *buried*. because the players hated it, and they gave it bad ratings/comments. also didn't have fraudulent ads and click-farms to artificially boost the ratings and userbase of the latest clone of a clone of a clone of clone of a clone....... of bejeweled or whatever else CONSTANTLY. in fact, google should work on vetting their ads, which are frequently used for purposes of deploying scams and malware. also, either them or the FTC cracking-down hard on misleading ones. that'd solve so many of the problems, right there.
It would probably be easier to just establish your own company and acquire a DUNS number.
😂
Nope, it comes with a lot of costs.
@@pietroroberto6114 I can't speak for the company side of it, but applying for a DUNS is free.
@@pietroroberto6114cheaper than getting friends 😂😂😂
@@fab_code Did you get solution?
This is Google's way of outsourcing quality checking of new apps for free.
true reason
That is exactly what is going on. They want to spend less money auditing apps to be published. I don't this is going to work the way they think it is.
Did they do any quality checks before?
Feels like it's designed to be burdensome to drive people towards the org route and getting a DUNS number, which doesn't really do much. The fly-by-night scammers will have no problem doing whatever they need to do to get an app in front of someone.
Yes. I am a self employed developer (1 man show) and I applied for the D.U.N.S. number. It's just a few clicks. So if this saves me from having to find 20 testers, then great. Gee some, of my customers I write apps for don't even have 20 employees.
@@NorbertHarrer I was thinking that as well, but the problem is you have to provide a phone number that gets verified. And that number will be published as contact info in Play store. I have my own company (just me) but work from my home office and I do not have a published company phone number. I'm NOT going to publish my cell phone number in the Play Store.
We all got to band together to test each others app 😂
Google needs to open a branch of Google Play dedicated to testing apps. Probably wouldn't be too difficult to get 20 testers, and Google would be able to easily verify it.
wow, this is INSANE!! Google is ensuring that no one will learn to develop on their platform first as a new mobile dev giving all apps a head start on Apple and very slow follow up to the Play Story after. Medium and large companies don't just have 20 people assigned to test an app for 2 weeks. What are they thinking!
I don't like where google is headed, I don't like where android is headed. With every update apps become more and more restricted. I'm just starting with developing apps and I already want to quit
Can u help form a team where we can make a group of testers that can help each other.
I can test your game or app and u can test my games.
Please reply.
@@Soulcode-k How would it be?
@@SirDella well we do at least need discord
I like your pfp - also like the song.
@@Soulcode-kSo... Is there some group on discord already?
20 testers required 😢😢. I don't think this is the good decision even from Google's view.
Regarding 20 testers: I expect there to be companies only doing such testing, possibly/likely automated.
Yeah you can use AI to test the app - but so can the solo dev who makes it AND Google Play when the app is submitted. So WTF.
There's no way Indian and Chinese scammers will ever be able to find 20 people to test their app. You totally screwed them over with this one Google. Super chad move
😂
I'd bet in the end they'll back off the 20 testers things. That's just insane.
This only affects new accounts. Personal accounts CREATED after November 13, 2023 are affected by the 20 tester policy. Existing personal accounts aren't required to do this. For new accounts, easier to just setup a business account.
i believe this should be pinned
I want to say goodbye to the android programming. The reason for this goodbye is not only Google's new policy. Rather, it is a series of illogical actions by Google over the years, and this new policy only made me sure.
1- Incomplete and vague documentation,
2- Sudden changes,
3- Differences in the Android operating system of mobile manufacturers (for example, battery optimization mechanism),
4- Different architectures for application development,
5- The need to write a lot of code to do a small task,
6- The fear of destroying the Google Developer account for various reasons.
Android is an operating system that is fun and cool for the consumer and painful for the developer.
Web development is much more enjoyable than android development.
I tried it and it was true.
Most of customers’ need can be done using web technology, like PWA, etc. I have involved in both and I got to say that web dev is more enjoyable.
And here I'm coming from web dev to android dev ☠ , i just started going through the course on the official docs and after I saw that 20 testers requirement, I really became demotivated and then kept thinking if this is worth it, finally somehow convinced myself to atleast make the apps for myself, if someone else will use it thats fine. Can also go the LLC route where I think you wouldnt have to get these 20 testers
So in short, you can't adapt to changes.
The exact opposite was true a few years ago. I'm switching to designing because of those same reasons and more.
@@AlexGreece45 if by changes you mean incompleteness and vague increments then sure we can't adapt to it.
Maybe these 20 tester are really good to connect people ... a community of developer helping each other in testing their apps
We can start a community of testers
@@innocentkumwenda8139where is link?
@@innocentkumwenda8139 "test my game plz, i just need 14 more" 😂
shut up Sundar Pichai's alter account everyone is changing Apple Store fk this
I have just recently published an app without any testers, so I am a little confused now.
Was your account made before November 2023
I'm actually happy for this. People need to learn to find APKs and install them and not just rely on Google Play and crippled apps that are only crippled to comply with Google's policies. The fewer big tech middle men between you and running the right software on your device, the better.
OMG this is just ridiculous!! Thanks for making this video i didn't even realize that there was an email sent for this. Putting an app on google play should be a full time job at this point, for people to deal with this kind of bs. Google are laterally trying to make android developers hate their lives with this nonsense.
I think all we can do is to find 20 freelancers to test the app
Freelancer be like : 🤑🤑🤑🤑
But then, what's the point in having those testers? As any scammer can find his 20 scammer friends (most likely not even real) to verify that app is legit. This rule sounds bonkers, at best.
I'm glad you brought this up. The verification is not a problem, but yeah, testing surely is. Hope I will get help from the discord. 😅
If google's intentions were really to improve apps users' experience, they would let developers choose whether they want to provide their verification information and then let users choose, whether they want to list all the apps in the store or only those from verified developers.
Say the quiet part out loud, they don't care about anyone but their shareholders.
Time for 3rd party distributors to become more popular than Google Play.
Thank you so much for covering this I read it a week ago this is madness
I have done subjective tests for Mobile Cloud Gaming and i struggled to get over 20 people to participate in the experiment. I was asking friends, family and students at the university.
this doesnt provide quality apps in anyway. just pushes away indie developers.
Not true. I just released an app a few months ago. Lots of hoops but not the 20 tester one.
I did have the option to add testers and do a public and or private test.
For a solo developer like me who doesn't have many friends, finding 20 people to test the app in 14 days is impossible.
Can u help form a team where we can make a group of testers that can help each other.
I can test your game or app and u can test my games.
Please reply.
I am in similar situation as u so please reply
20?! Man this sucks! I was seriously planning on releasing some apps to the playstore next year to better improve my resume. Now idk who's worse, Google or Apple.
Please explain what's wrong with apple? I'm a Android user. But doesn't apple just ask for 100 up front every year? I know it's greedy but better than what Google is trying to become. Next they will charge for every download
@@MrXlee1967 You're exactly right, while Google charges $25 for a lifetime access, the concept of paying $99 EVERY YEAR just seemed so absurd to me in comparison 😂 But now I really don't know man, I know both Android and iOS, but I was leaning towards the playstore because of its ease. At this rate, might as well jump over to Apple before Google truly charges per download 🤣
@@MrXlee1967
100/yr ads-up fast on increasingly stretched [thanks to corpos] budgets. you have to actually make that money back. and it's pretty hard for indie devs and/or anyone honest to do that.
that said, apple [and google] is just EVIL. it's to the point they only do good when legal issues are raised. it goes well beyond the app stores. they're just...horrible.... but, they own, well, basically us. same goes for : wal mart, amazon, nestle, disney, basically if it's a large company, you can blame a significant amount of ours and the world's suffering on them in some way.
If you read carefully it says that if the App will have to be paid, the testers have to buy it...
Just nonsense
u not only need to test it for 2 weeks, users also must not delete your app for this period and laucnh it few times (instructions not clear from google), or that user will not be counted
Thanks for adding that, that's ridiculous
The problem weirdly is that they add verification but instead of letting you verify whenever you want they have this que where you ARENT able to submit until your 60 days starts. Would have been cool if they just didn’t put a time limit to start verifying and just had you in a verifying state for how long it takes their small verification team instead ❤
Mad policy of google play! We need to move to another alternative store and then it will start respecting its developers.
Any ideas on how to do this?
@@MrXlee1967 AppGallery, GetApps store, etc. And create a global complaint demanding respect for the developers.
Any idea Guys? I'm sick of this google play policy
In india we are working on a new platform called indus app store...
there's F-droid, but you have to make your app open-source.
I was worried until i realized that i have already joined the Philip's Discord server. It is definitely going to be very helpful, Thanks philip for the information !
A better way to achieve high-quality apps is for Google to simply ask their review team to test and ensure the quality of apps before publishing them on the Play Store.
But if Google prefers it their way, then I think the number of testers should be reduced from 20 to 5 or less.
What do you think?
1 - the solo dev can test it alone as always, manually, and automated and using AI, and Google can and should be using testing upon submission using AI tools especially lately.
Now I will not upload my app on Google play store
Its crazy to require it, id rather it just give particular privileges if you have the 20 testers, so then youd just make it a preference if you want it to be "verified"
They target the bushiness, they don't want the individual people no more, because non company devs will never offer paid app. And they don't want to admit this publicly, so they update the standards to only AAA companies can keep up, but for some reason the malware and scambait software will still be available, like they got a contract or something.
I agree.
Instead of all this BS, Google should work to improve their customer support. Leave about their replies in case of play console account suspension, even their Google one support team sucks. They've no idea what they're saying.
Google support? I might have seen bigfoot. But that? No.
I worked in teams which developed automotive and banking apps and there was never more than 2 testers for all platforms (web/iOS/android). How big apps you must develop to have 20 testers?
Google underestimates how bad of an app me and 19 random people can make
Broh you got me😂😂😂
I work at a Fortune 100 company with 70,000+ employees. If I rounded up all the devs, designers, project managers, and QA staff on my team, we would still not be at 20.
Last week I put down my paper to start my full time indie developer journey
Just to find out google just don't want indie developers😢
I feel like I'm shifting to other 'non-popular' market place out there. If google becomes even more hostile with their terrible policy, then it's a green light for me to move on and pack my things up.
What market place?
I just finished my app after working on it for months and opened my dev account yesterday to be able to publish it. I don't know what to say..
Have you tried to upload it?
imagine spending the whole of 2023 teaching yourself how to make an android app, learning graphich and technical design, learning different libraries, learning testing, learning git, and as you approach the final experimental iteration thinking of how close you are to publishing, CZcams recommends you this video. FML 😢
I'm starting a testing app business.😊
The only good-quality android games are made by indie devs. So they want to leave only trash "donate every second" games that don't even have any content?
I bet there will be a discord server or WhatsApp group or hell, even something like a Facebook group where people will be able to get together 20 or more indie developers to cross-test apps. It's not great, but a solution isn't completely out of the question.
I know in university, even our tiny weekly programming assignments had to be run by 20 different people before submission, and everyone in class just ran everyone else's executables once or twice from the share drive.
There is a proverb that says "There are other orange trees that do oranges". If you get it, you get it
With the bugs in some of Google's apps .. I'm pretty sure it doesn't have 20 full time testers!
This is absurd. This does not guarantee quality because now your tester will be your dog, cat, grandmother, etc.
I REFUSE. It's been a great journey for one decade, my fellow android developers.
Moving into another software development field in 2024 is my new top priority, BYE BYE ANDROID!!
True! So many redundant process they added. Even the 'tester' feature I think is a huge red flag and time consuming. Until play store simplify their process without losing the quality of their secured process, devs will not feel the pain. devs like me.
And I'm still trying to understand Scoped Storage and writing ProGuard rules.
Why do they have to make this so damn complicated and now just abusively demanding.
And it also discriminates against introverts.
Like me, I'm introverted and have no friends😢
Google is going mad day by day. They even blocked my developer account for publishing apps of other people.
took me 5 days, gathered 17 testers😂. Made a group of those members & going to remind them every day for 2 weeks😪
I want to be a part of this. Can you add me please
Did you succeed in publishing your app?
@@godswillenyinnaya932 not yet... It almost took me 10 days to gather testers & 14 days to test it... i.e almost a month. Then they were reviewing my app with some questions. This was testing phase. Now I need to publish the updated version for the production with bundle apk and all information to fill again. I got irritated from all this so stopped!😑..will do later now. Just to publish one fukin app taking a lifetime to complete
Gauging the quality of an app based on the number of *testers* you have is like measuring time by counting how many clocks you have. They're not exactly unrelated, but it's the wrong parameter to measure. What ever happened to automated software testing?
20 developers? That's just insane. If I want to have problems with publishing I can always go to Apple
This is so true. Apple is still the worst. The amount of hours I've spent on App Connect answering silly questions, changing the app, waiting for them to review again is insane. Nowadays I try to avoid developing apps at all cost. If it can be done on the web in the browser, this is the way.
This policy is absurd, I use to develop Android apps as my hobby. Now I feel demotivated to do it. Did not expect this from Google. Pathetic decision.
The new CEO of Google, is from India Sundar Pichai , most testers are from India... Conflict of interest. He simply wants to give his people more jobs.
LOL
Lol
Mdr 😅
LOL Tell me you're an idiot without telling me you're an idiot.
He is CEO for more than a decade now
Time to create a new app store 😢
What about Aptoide, F-droid, or something similar?
I don't like where Android as a whole is going. From an open platform different from ios, it's now basically following apple's footsteps but worse.
I am ok with verification but tester thing is simply a attack against indie developers
I work for a multi-million dollar company that has 6 QA people for iOS, Android, and web testing. This is stupid.
Giving away email addresses of others in Europe is not legal. Again, Google breaking common sense.
Gone are the days when it was exciting and fun to be an Android dev. Too many hoops to get apps live.
The more I learn about Google, the more I hate them. I hope they are out of business one day.
yes
This is another way to say they only want big companies publishing apps. It has nothing to do with quality.
crazy is the new normal for google, these days, when apps are published they first have to be approved by google they are just lazy with this system and hence so many malicious apps get published, it all started with the app permissions and now there are so many its like there are diverse permissions for each different new version of android , had they kept a proper approval team these issues had not been there is first place, they just want to shift their work load on developers, its same with the various apis and dev tools they provide, and expect developers to figure out their own way, now you just dont have to be a developer but also go through all this testing business, hope they dont ask screenshots and screen recording of the test that we have to do
They are just basically kicking out the Introvert Developers with no friend, Insane.