Altair 8800 - Video #9.2 - Loading 8K BASIC the Fun Way
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- čas přidán 16. 01. 2014
- Loading 8K BASIC from a vintage reel-to-reel tape deck through the Altair cassette interface. Explanation of various tones from the tape during the load process.
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Neat, I remember using audio cassettes to load programs and upgrading to a 5.25" floppy was living large.
Trigger on my Atari 600xl took quite a while to load via cassette...having a floppy drive was heavenly in comparison.
Awesome setup! I had and Altair 8800 back in '77 and I wish I never got rid of it. The reel-to-reel really adds a nice touch to the setup, GREAT WORK!
Excellent video. I was with DEC for years and well remember mag tape farms on older systems which was used basically for back up and recovery. Those were great days !!
I helped a friend with an Altair in early 1970's. Led me into Computer Technology. Enjoyed the video very much.
Now I see why older movies always characterize "complex" computers with high frequency noise
When I was a kid, hacking CHASE was my main jam, first on a Cromemco and then a Honeywell.
Sometime I saw a video by someone who acquired an Altar but the guts were either destroyed or missing. He put a modern motherboard in there but set it up to emulate exactly the Altair machine! Quite a piece of work!
In my generation of 8 bit computing, I could easily type in LOAD "*",1,1 (C64), CLOAD or ENTER "C:" (Atari) to load in from a cassette depending on how the data was saved hooked up to a black/white television set. Fortunately they had Basic loaded on a cartridge and later on a chip. I still have my original Commodore 64 and Atari cassette machines. This is legendary!
This series of videos is truly wonderful. Thank you. x
This brings back great memories. I never owned an Altair but started on an Apple ][ and 8 bit processors. I did all this stuff. A lot of work for little gain but is was fun and exciting.
I love the sounds it makes. It's very relaxing.
This is better than the Galaxy S7
I've used a Galaxy S3 on various vintage computers to feed it with analog tape sounds to load stuff (ZX81, ZX Spectrum, C64, SOL-20, Camputers Lynx) :)
Everything is better then a samsung
@@jantrammelant every thing retro is better than anything modern
You want us to listen to it because it's fun, and then you walk through it. Good job.
Very interesting, love old systems. Subscription earned
We had that same deck in the control room at the first TV Station I worked at. I never got to use it but we did still roll music off of 4 track carts.
Oh! I also remember when I was at Hope College in Michigan. We (rich school-not rich student) had a particle accelerator which was identical to one owned by Michigan State. They were using an Altair in conjunction with that (1976).
The Altair was before my time, but I enjoy seeing the history of computing. When I started elementary school in LA, we had a lab full of fresh Apple IIc computers. They were advanced for the time, but tech has come a long way.
Still have mine, but in a fit of madness in the late 90's I pulled most of the chips out of the board and saved them. now, this is my retirement project. Did have an cassette interface too. Also, back in the day, we used auto cassette to load the programs into the cash machine's mini computers (70'S & 80'S).
Altair Pre-Dates me, but I've always wanted to check one of these out.
Thats Sweet!
Dryden, MI
Ho-ho, Altair was just a few years before my time (i cut my teeth on C= 6502's) but she's a beaut, clone or not and the vid sure brings back nostalgia. Hell of a boy you have though mate, knowing what'll actually light up the old man. Everyone I know lucky to score a tie and a can of cashews. Of interest, i had very recently been thumbing through my 70's PE mag collection and had been coveting that particular deck which they (Julian Hirsch perhaps?) reviewed. Nice video - going to check out your other vids now.
Great video, thanks for sharing.
I can't groove to this like I can groove to a Spectrum loading tape.
That sound brings back memories. I still have my Poly 88 computer from 1976 which has a keyboard and a monitor and an Intel 8080 chip. And, I still have my Hero 2000 ET-19 robot from 1986 who is still up and going.
You are a wise man to have kept your old gear!
@@BertGrink I try to hang on to everything, rather than waste money by keeping up with the Joneses. Here is a picture of my old stereo system. ibb . co/jSWGOo ( Remove Spaces ) I built the speaker cabinets back in 1978. So they are now 41 years old, but they still sound as good as new. Although, I did eventually have to replace the outer rubber rings on the two 12" woofers, since the old rings had literally begun to turn to dust, due to old age. The two replacement rings only cost about $25. Everything else is still working. The DENON DCD - 900 CD player, the Soundcraftsmen PE - 2217 equalizer, the Yamaha CT - 800 AM/FM tuner, the AKAI GX - 630D reel to reel recorder, and the Heathkit AA -1506 power amplifier, all are working fine. These were all purchased between 1976 and 1978, with the exception of the 1987 DENON CD player. The DENON CD player started skipping, but all it needed was a couple of drops of electric shaver oil, put in the right places. Now the LED mechanism could shift quickly and smoothly again, as it moves across the CD being played. Oh, I forgot to mention the 1976 Pioneer PL-510 turntable, which is still working fine as well. Who knows what this stuff is worth these days.
@@BertGrink Here is a picture of the Heathkit Hero 2000. ibb.co/qFSMwbd and ibb.co/F4tK2V2 I still have to de-yellow the lower front plastic section. You can see in the example, just how yellow the plastic had become in some areas.
I showed this video to my wife and said, "Me want." She looked at me and replied, "Learn to live with disappointment."
I used to write those types of games for the old Z80 back in the day 🤓
It is one of my biggest dreams to do this on a real altair. Thats so amazing !!!!
Would have been interesting to see inside this machine, I may have to Google this now, but thanks for this insight into old school computing.
That Pioneer deck was one of the best made.
I know this is an old video, but I just watched it. That same Pioneer deck, I have in my garage. It was my dads when I was growing up, and when he died I inherited it. I recently acquired an Altair, and this may be a project I attempt also. First, I need to see if the reel to reel is in order. Then, see if I can find tapes, and hope I still have the pickup reel. Seems like that would be a fitting thing to do.
That is *awesome!*
+F_A_B123 nice profile pic
Brilliant !
its fascinating to watch this series. wonder if the homebrew computer club did the exact same thing. from a computer that had absoluty nothing per se( just a few boards and switches , to a huge add on community and early adapters . in the end it had a o.s and everything else that a "modern? mini would have .
Thanks for sharing..
its actually nice to see some of these older systems even if its not purely old but its the same Functunality.
I had a Dick Smith System 80 back in the 80's (TRS 80 Clone)
I still rember loading programs from Magazines. and then trying to figure out what i did wrong.. lol.
I remember the System 80 but I bought (and assembled) the Super-80 kit from DSE. It even worked (after I fixed a minor error I made during assembly)
And after I figured out that BASIC (on tape) for that machine was junk, I got a book which had TRS-80 BASIC listed in hexadecimal, gradually entered it into the Super-80 and then modified it so it would work with 32 characters per line instead of 64 characters per line, as well as redirecting its cassette tape routines to the ones in the monitor ROM.
Fun days. Nowadays though, you can get a similar thrill from playing around with Arduino and PIC, and figuring out how to make them do what you want. And you can get heaps of boards and parts which will work with them, without having to take out a second mortgage on your home. :)
So true i think that's why i enjoy Unix type OS's too
Ahh, the era of type-ins! I remember the time fondly; my friend got a ZX Spectrum in 1982 or thereabout, and since there wasn't a lot of commercial software available, he bought a lot of magazines. We would then take turns typing in the listings: one of us would read out the various instructions while the other typed them in. This would go on for maybe 30 to 45 minutes, then we would take a coffee and "smoke" break, and switch tasks. Rinse and repeat until done.
This look amazingly like a game that I wrote back in high school (late 70's) called "Fence."
I would like to see a recreation of that game
I heard similar sounds many times back in my Commodore 64 cassette days.
What? The C64 tape deck did not emit any sound. As a matter of fact, the C64 had one of the most reliable and easy-to-use tape decks specifically because it was made by Commodore and did not transmit actual audio to the computer, the cassette deck itself did the analog to digital conversion and automatically adjusted the tape gain etc. So I don't know how you would ever have heard anything like this using a C64?
Allright class, I want you to hand in this assignment digitally.
-ok
Interesting use of a Pioneer RT-707 :)
I can confirm that this sounds similar to cassette loaded programs for the Commodore 64 and SEGA SC-3000H!
I have the Pioneer RT-909 reel to reel with the SX-3800 integrated amplifier.
Oh , so cute !
I seem to remember that game back when I started on a friends IMSAI8080. Yeah, shows my age ;-)
Nice "blast from the past"
How did you record data to the tape?
gracias ...por el video ...
wow , brought back hard earned memories. then i learn it's a CLONE.
Nope. Imsai 8080 is a clone of the Altair 8800. The Altair is the original
@@japanfanatic1415 What they meant is the Altair in this video is not an original Altair but a clone Altair developed by the guy making the videos. However he does also feature real Altair hardware in other videos.
Reminds me of my Spectrum +2a loading
Wow, this was was interesting too; now you're seeing on a terminal screen what we would've seen on paper from your teletype machine, right?
So, its like when a zx spectrum loads. I do like the zx spectrum loading noise.
Yes, the basic principle is exactly the same, only the bit rate is probably lower than the Spectrum's. Fellow Speccy fan here :D
Amazing this is still how OS's boot today in seconds.
Deramp5113, your video is very informative, but I have one question that altair was without monitor, how come you one 7:26, kindly explain
sounds like what comes out of a baud modem.
It's pretty much a modified modem running at the same frequencies and 300 baud speed of the Bell 103 standard, which was set in 1963. Some codes are even intercompatible if programmed specifically and correctly. This variety is called "Kansas City Standard" and was standardized for all computers of that time to require this form of tape loading as a failsafe measure in 1976.
THis looks like a program I wrote back in high school (in 70's) called Fence.
if anyone complains about their computer loading times, I immediately send them either this video or you loading basic from a teletype on altair.
Bootstrapping that thing requires more patience than 99% of the world has.
Takes 10mins on paper tape...... This is very cool. Did people back then use tapes like this ?
Is possible to load Konami's games like Knight Mare at this device?
can we take the audio from this video to extract the same data?
かっこいい！
So to use this PC the user had to be a software engineer to run some text program?
Sounds much more pleasant than listening to old Commodore cassettes. What cassette standard did the Altair use (Kansas city etc?)
It does seem so: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_City_standard#Computers_using_the_Kansas_City_standard
nice
where can I find the audio file for the 8k basic? I don't have an Altair but I like to keep these files anyway. Also a random question about terminals. Can they talk to each other with just a null modem? I wonder this since I have a TI99 that I may make an RS232 Perph board and I wanted to see if it could talk to my pc by a terminal emulator.
***** Here's a link to a zip file with audio of several versions of BASIC and more: altairclone.com/downloads/cassette_interface/BASIC%20Tapes.zip
With the right cable, two terminals can talk to each other. Everything you type on one shows up on the other and vice-versa.
I would recommend the max232n chip, since it does all the heavy lifting for you, including the serial line voltage generation, baud rate generation and outputs TTL for the bus to use on the TI99. Then you can just send bytes directly over serial using your serial port on your PC, and a simple listen and write to memory program you could whip up in a few hours of hunting for the correct address of the memory mapped I/O. If the TI99 has a parallel port, that would be the spot to use/monitor for incoming bytes. I cant remember [the max baud rate/default] but the baud rate can be selected as well using the pins of the chip I believe via the use of pull up resistors.
The Atari version of the maze game with robots and electrified walls is called Berzerk.
whats the bitrate of this tape loading ? and does it has anything to do with the cpu clock ?
I can't say for sure. I remember doing it back when it was state of the art and used cassette tapes. 9600 would have been on the high end of the frequency range for cassette, likely it was 1200, 2400 or 4800
I feel like I just listened to a ham radio FSK transmission. At this point, maybe I should find out how much stuff I can fit into an audio cassette.
That Pioneer tape reel thingymabob must be worth a fortune.
I remember in the early Seventies having to enter instructions using 16 toggle switches.
Sounds like RTTY that ham radio operators use.
An RT-707!
Now what's the BASIC command on this computer for calling an ML routine, like SYS on Commodore 8-bit computers (at least if you know what Commodores are like)?
lol all i could think about is dial up hearing that sound XD
I miss my US robotics 14.4k. That thing had the biggest speaker I have ever seen on a modem. There was literally no way you were sneaking onto the internet at night.
Might be too late to be useful but the modem command string ATM0 would shut the speaker off.
Better late than never... I still have a collection of commodore modems, in hopes that an analog telephone replacement technology comes down the pike along with some serious hobby usage. Ie BBS related stuff. I know there are a few options currently available, but i havent played around too much with them
My favorite dial up modem was made by 3com. It was a combination ethernet router and dial-up modem. Any time one of the three networked computers made an internet request it would dial out to the ISP. After a certain amount of idle time it would hang up. Imagine three computers sharing a dial-up.
Neat!! As long as you werent downloading images im sure it was fine. I remember text html was decently fast on dialup
LOL Mp3 is funny too... A meg or 2 file representing a couple k 🤣
Why not just do a direct capture to the computer from the headset jack, where at a certain volume it can be at about the same level as line out?
👍👍👍👍👍👍
Haha, "BASICally BASIC being loaded," nice!
I remember on the time, where i programmed my 1st program on the altair 8800. Great times, i miss it a lot!
Drachenreiterklaus Daar tai koona putiraat
Sounds like a bell 202 modem. 1200 baud half duplex
300bd ASCII 7-bit
Incorrect to refer to this as a cassette tape. This is reel to reel tape. Cassette refers to magnetic tape in a self-contained cartridge.
But you just a box
Makes me wonder how they got it onto that tape...
Gabe Alexander the "rec" button, along with the csave command.
Hey, your that pony that hangs out with that diamond tiara !
(I also didn't know you could speak french?)
and yeah, I was looking at it from the point of view of the computer, rather than looking at the pre existing technology for audio recording and reproduction, lovely way to get a serial signal going, is audio
Gabe Alexander
well, humans from the eighties used to have cassette recorders for the same purposes in the eighties, like, with a commodore, atari, amstrad..
...tape remains about the most advanced storage technology we have here in Equestria.
Also MODEMs, allowing us to "dwarf" terminal users kilometres from here, acting like a remote server, responding to every command they send, it's always worth it.
Still using modems eh?
makes me wonder what kind of cpus are in the most powerful equestrian data processing devices, like TTL cpu boards or have you gotten integrated circuits yet
Now all you need is an LSI terminal
it would be cool if we could save to tape with new computers :-)
It's sort of possible. There is a program called WAV-PRG that can take a Commodore 64 PRG file and output it as audio. (c.f. wav-prg.sourceforge.net/wpfaq.html )
Michael Hall Thanks Michael, I'll have a look at that now :)
Good point...Also you can use modern tapes like the LTO format, which store terabytes of information.
From what I have heard it is massively slow compared to modern data transfers, so GL to any company with that as the only offsite backup they have available.
you can...
"It was designed to make make the boot process a little more reliable off the tape." OK, that's great for when you're not using tape, but botting _off_ it. But what about when you're booting FROM it?
I think aliens accsidently left an altair 8800 on earth and the military reverse engineered it in the 40s.
Now the question is .IS BASIC STEREO?
3:16 = show time
What fps does this run crysis?
"...And to tell the loader that we're loading from cassette tape." Or... magnetic tape or analog audio in general, since this isn't cassette tape.
Did the people who bought the Altair 8800 back then have a keyboard/screen?
Not initially; however this machine, as well as the Imsai 8080. spawned a huge "scene" of homebrewers who quickly figured out how to make interfaces for keyboards, monitors, tape decks, et.c. AND how to write the programs that made the hardware usable. This was then followed by commercial endeavours, which in turn gave even more people access to this new world. The rest is, as they say, history.
There are plenty of videos here on youtube which document that time, in case you're interested.
XD
I wish I was born earlier..
we can still experience this stuff today though, more conveniently :)
LeiserGeist Yes sure, also with more ease. But still I wish this was my every day thing to work with.
What is stopping you from it being your every day machine?! I use my retro gear to do day to day computing all the time. The only things they can't really do is multimedia applications like video(which you can do from your phone or TV anyhow). Things like spreadsheets, word processing, etc. Math especially! These old machines are great for plugging away it math problems. I will admit though, sometimes on bigger 'try and compare' problems it does get tedious waiting the 12 hours it is computing using basic. Those are better done in machine language. I remember my VIC 20 sat there for 2 days calculating something one time.
Well, barring that, i did manage to snag some s-100 sockets a while back. Worst worst worst case scenario, i can build a case and backplane, and then buy some s100 cards ebay. Id rather have this though. Those sockets were around 8$ a piece though so i will definitely do a wire wrap backplane someday. I wish he included a pin terminal breakout of the s100 bus though...would mean i can do some of the neato s100 dot com boards like the 80386 processor card for instance.
But then maybe you would never have seen these things! I don't think many people had an 8800 back then. Maybe you would like to enjoy what I am doing at the moment: I chose a year (happened to be 1985 but could be any year) and restricted myself to only music, films and computer stuff (emulation allowed) that existed at that time. I set January 1st 1985 (retro time) = January 1st 2018 (real time), and I set retro time to run 8x faster than real time; this way I will eventually catch back up with present day (but I will probably stop at year 2000). I've only been doing this a couple of days and already it has been a really fun experience, finding old magazines and music I had not heard before and learning to use and code on a Commodore 64; I am currently enjoying playing Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and reading Compute! magazine. (I'm waiting for the January 1986 issue to come out in retro-time before I let myself read it haha.)
Who where these people that have managed to not run their headphones down completely...
Very Cool. Now can you load 8K BASIC from a stick with notches carved in it? I know it would have to be a fairly long stick.
OTHER IDEAS:
Load 8K BASIC from a rope with knots tied in it.
Load 8K BASIC from stone tablets.
Load 8K BASIC from DNA patterns stored in a small fish.
Load 8K BASIC from marbles of differing colors.
I mean... If you're bored on a rainy day...
Next step: smoke signals
My musical x-mas card has more memory and power.
Wow, you must be coolest guy in the hood...
AirScholar same
Well then, you have the most powerful Christmas card in the world.
Then put your xmas card up in your shithole and be happy with it (y)
whats the os
That Computer does not need an OS! It could run CP/M, Basic and many Other. But it does not need an OS to run Programs.
Yea, but can it play Doom?
haaa lol
but... you didn't finish the game
We can't hear the tones because you are constantly taking over them.
Do you want to hear the most annoying sound in the world?
how would you use this crap? seriously
Some guys do I love my BBC mrico
You can do everything but multimedia on these(unless you count 'ladders' as multimedia. You can even go on the internet.
Crap? How dare you! This computer was the granddaddy of all subsequent computers, including the phone you're probably watching this on.