Cromwell: Away with this popish idolatry!
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- čas přidán 16. 02. 2016
- Mr. Cromwell, tear down that altar!
What to do when the Regulative Principle of worship is not kept. Excerpted from the 1970 film 'Cromwell,' this clip of him in church shows a good grasp of the RPW on behalf of the scriptwriters; Cromwell actually quotes the second commandment in response to the inventions of man introduced in worship.
Transcript.
Cromwell: Who has done this? Answer me, who has done this?
Minister: An edict, squire. From the Archbishop himself. And by order of the King.
Cromwell: By order the King? Is not the Church of England a Protestant church? Would the King turn the House of God into a Roman Temple? Does the King think that God can be bought with gold, trinkets and guilded rubbish? Has this King forgotten the reformation? Away with this, popish idolatry!
Did not the Lord say unto Moses, Thou shall not to make unto thyself any graven image... do not bow down to them! Has this King forgotten the Spanish inquisition? Is the Roman Catholic Church to have a seat in Westminster?
Scripture reference: Exodus 20v4-6.
Westminster Larger Catechism reference:
Q. 107. Which is the second commandment?
A. The second commandment is, Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; and showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Q. 108. What are the duties required in the second commandment?
A. The duties required in the second commandment are, the receiving, observing, and keeping pure and entire, all such religious worship and ordinances as God hath instituted in his Word; particularly prayer and thanksgiving in the name of Christ; the reading, preaching, and hearing of the Word; the administration and receiving of the sacraments; church government and discipline; the ministry and maintainance thereof; religious fasting; swearing by the name of God; and vowing unto him; as also the disapproving, detesting, opposing all false worship; and, according to each one’s place and calling, removing it, and all monuments of idolatry.
Q. 109. What are the sins forbidden in the second commandment?
A. The sins forbidden in the second commandment are, all devising, counselling, commanding, using, and anywise approving, any religious worship not instituted by God himself; tolerating a false religion; the making any representation of God, of all or of any of the three persons, either inwardly in our mind, or outwardly in any kind of image or likeness of any creature whatsoever; all worshipping of it, or God in it or by it; the making of any representation of feigned deities, and all worship of them, or service belonging to them, all superstitious devices, corrupting the worship of God, adding to it, or taking from it, whether invented and taken up of ourselves, or received by tradition from others, though under the title of antiquity, custom, devotion, good intent, or any other pretence whatsoever; simony; sacrilege; all neglect, contempt, hindering, and opposing the worship and ordinances which God hath appointed.
Taken from: www.reformed.org/documents/wlc... Here you'll find the scripture proofs linked to the Longer Catechism. - Komedie
Cromwell in Church:
"Away with THIS POPISH IDOLATRY!"
Cromwell in Parliament:
"Away with THIS BAUBLE!"
Cromwell at Home:
"Away with THIS TEPID SOUP!"
Cromwell in the battlefield
Away with these royal filth
Cromwell at the crucifixion:
"Away with this MARTYR COMPLEX VIRTUE SIGNALLING!"
Cromwell in Ireland: AWAY WITH THESE IRISH!!!
Cromwell during cryptocurrency market crash: "AWAY WITH THIS BUBBLE!"
Cromwell in the office:
"Away with these MONDAY EMAILS!"
His wife was like “good lord we can’t take him anywhere”
lol
She had his children
very true words I think
@@mikecarone7320 oh I hope so
No Popery ✊️
"IS THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH TO HAVE A SEAT IN WESTMINSTER?!" Dumbledore asked calmly
DAMN SON tee hee
We watched the same vid havent we.
@@mbsb1376
Its clearly a joke.
“Harry you son of a whore. Did ya put your fucking name in that bloody goblet of fire?!” Asked Dumbledore calmly.
@@lennydale92 im not talking about t- oh fuck it you wouldnt understand anyways
I love how he looks at the altar and you can see in his eyes
Cromwell: TRIGGERED
-Who has done this?
-Mr. Cromwell?
-WHO IS OPPRESSING WOMEN???
SJW
Just like them today going after white Jesus
Very good actor
Millennials.....😒
Me: "I won't get religious."
*No drinks later*
Me:
Same
Happens too often
Me too
Because, unlike the scarlet whore and his minions, I need no alcohol or wafers to be in concert with God.
Just imagine Mr. Cromwell entering the Orthodox church.
"AWAY WITH THIS BYZANTINE IDOLATRY!"
"IS THE RUSSIAN TSAR TO RECEIVE A SEAT IN WESTMINSTER?"
Lmao he'd get shouted out of there if he even though about doing that in an Orthodox church
@@baabaaer Iconoclast in nutshell
He would get a stroke, and have to be rushed to the hospital
@@the.orthodox.photographer2272 Cromwell wouldn’t leave not arrested if he tried that in an Orthodox Church 😂
Everyone in the church: That's the tenth time this week he's trashed the church
Wouldnt you be so frustrated if your wife wore 6 pairs of Panties under all the other stuff ?
😂😂😂
That would mean he goes to church every day, as well as three nights a week just to trash the place.
This clip brought to you by Quaker Oats.
Nothing better for thee than me!
Puritans not Quakers. Big difference
Actually Puritans hate Quaker
@@khaleddekar2188
Puritans didn’t like Quakers and strongly persecuted them, but Oliver Cromwell was known to strongly like Quakers and regarded them as very ‘Godly people.’
How?
Everyone in the church: He does this EVERY Sunday!
you know the kids love it
This is a really good film. There's a scene later where Cromwell is meeting the King, he notices a crucifix necklace on the painting of the Kings wife.. I was like, "Oh shit!"
I thought at that moment that he would attack her 😂
I beg to differ, it's not really good, it's stunning! Something that today's "parliament" could learn from - were they not so corrupt, ignorant, greed, lying toe-rags
a crucifix = "mark of the beast"!
@@psychedelicelvis-777ok mr born again bible believing christian 🙄
Stupid puritan prick
Me when I see Christmas decorations on sale at Home Depot in September
What 😂 how are they on sale already?
When a Catholic brings his Protestant friend to a Catholic Mass
The worst part is still when they come in too soon with the, "... for thine is the Kingdom... "
No smells! No bells! And no eating the actual flesh of Jesus!
@@CA-ee1et protestant cringe
@@CA-ee1et _real_ presence, not "actual flesh." Mr. Hickey is right. Please consider attending RCIA and learning these things.
LOL.
After playing a scene in which Cromwell decries Roman Papism, the editor decides to leave the audience with a image of Cromwell with a mitre, a Roman practice.
In fact, Cromwell was buried like a Romanist. That is why his tomb was desecrated during the Restoration.
@@jeffreybagust4432 Why was he buried as such?
@@Smokey298
His tomb was desecrated because the Restoration regime saw him as a traitor and regicide. All those who had signed Charles I's death warrant were exempt from the general amnesty granted by Charles II. Cromwell's funeral was quasi-regal, but it was a Protestant ceremony.
@@patrickhows1482 Yes, his remains hanged.
Absolute Power corrupts......absolutely.
This would have made for a funny Snickers commercial.
Pastor: "Mr. Cromwell, eat a snickers!"
Cromwell: "Why?!"
Pastor: "Because you're a Triggered-Happy lunatic when you're hungry."
(Bites into a Snickers)
Pastor: "Better?"
(Replace Cromwell with King Arthur from Camelot) King Arthur: "Better."
I really have no idea why this only has 23 likes.
Listen -- random priest seating in Canterbury distributing Snickers is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some theologist feeding snacks.
Marathons
You could literally bring back a young Richard Harris with AI and do this very thing. Maybe someone should 🤔
lo! the stuarte restauration
"Honey I set the table for our anniversary!"
WHAT IS THIS ROMAN CATHOLIC IDOLATRY
Sigma rule #1642 Trash the popish Altar
Bible: Go to your brother who has sin and council with them privately, not arguing or bickering before the church
Cromwell: *phasers set to kill*
This scene is fictional.
The irony of an Irish man playing Cromwell
probably out of spite
Well before that catholics killed protestants during this period there was a lot of Irish Protestant but yeah u know like "if u kill all ur ennemies people will forget about them"
@@sitrakamatthieu Protestantism was never strong in Ireland.
Ye but harris grew up a prodestant but then again so was wolftone and emmet thomas some of irelands greatest heros were prodestant and suported irish freedom so dont matter what religion you are born into it who you stand for and fight for what you feel is a just cause up the fuckin ra
@@jaysun2402 we hold the north to this day, you idiot.
I suggest that he switch to decaf
Torrey Holmes 😂😂Or the greatest coffee commercial ever😂😂😂
Coffee is the devil's work my young charge.
lol torrey. I try to like this movie, but Richard Harris is SOOOO over the top and hammy. Shame because everything else in it is great
POPE Cromwell? The Lord Protector would be spinning in his grave like a top....if Good Time Charlie Number Two hadn't been so silly that he stooped to digging a dead man out of his grave and hanging the corpse at Tyburn...a petty, ludicrous demonstration of ridiculous retribution. POPE Cromwell.... No..I won't be subscribing to such a title.
no, that was Henry VIII
Well, THAT'S certainly one way to liven up a church service.
Aye. I'd have that over rock bands and smoke machines.
Yeah ha ha ha
You should become a muslim- this is the tempo of an average friday khutbah.
yes talk about fire and brimstone. Jesus H. Christ !
@@e.jenima7263 What WAS Jesus' middle name anyway? Horatio? Henry? Higgenbotham?
"Are these candlesticks for devotional use?"
"Yes, but only in the metaphysical sense."
Yeah essentially.
Richard Harris is terribly underrated.
He got his props.
Especially as a singer. Remember MacArthur Park.
@Ian Mangham an ideal character to play the part of another of similar disposition.
When younger Richard left school his father put him to work in the family flour mills and within three days he lead the whole mill out on strike for more wages what. A rebel just like Cromwell who turned into a tyrant just like the king he fought and executed
Yeh probably right stirred them all up to to go strike then no pay then no food for belly's and probably only got a small wage rise
Dumbledore has really mellowed with age.
Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk.
I know right😂
He started saying things way more calmly.
This is his youth
"Away with this popish idolatry!" Cromwell said calmly XD
1:45 No one forgets the Spanish Inquisition!
only the morons here commenting against Cromwell
@@hda1010 Cromwell is apart of the symptoms of the modern world ills
Huh ?
@@hda1010 am dumb. Please explain relevance here. Is he pertaining to anything specific about it or just to how shitty it was?
Pues si la culpa de todo la tiene España .
Given that the C of E has no discernable principles any longer, someone like this is just what this country needs NOW.
Correction the C of E doesn't share your principles.
Someone needs a Snickers bar
Or laid. Possibly both
this should be done in the 'mega churches'
Cromwell enters AGM of mega church: “Away with this popish Gucci and Luis Vuitton! Private jet aircraft? WHAT THE COUTIS!?“
"IS THIS A HOUSE OF GOD, OR A TED TALK INTERRUPTING A ROCK CONCERT?!!"
“AWAY WITH THIS FOUL DRIVEL! IS THIS A HOUSE OF GOD OR CONCERT HALL?!”
@@adamcheklat7387 one could argue a cathedral could be both. He'd probably "away" my wig to the white meat if I said to his face
Luther, Calvin, Knox, Cromwell, etc. would all have a stroke seeing American churches.
Cromwell: let's overthrow the monarchy for the people because its claim to divine ordinance is false!
Also Cromwell: I am the one ordained by god to know what's best for the people! Anyone challenging my authority is against god!
I do not know which is worse if he actualy belived it or if he didn't.
for the people!!!!! by the people and with the people!!!!! what people???
the people ended up worst!!!! but noblity more powerful!!!
@@Raximus3000 Oh, he did. He was exceptionally religious and believed he had triumphed through God, therefore, God was with him and he was so ordained.
Then he banned Christmas. *And that* is why they landed on Plymouth Rock
The basic standard by which religious nuts are measured.
You know, he realized after the fact the mistake in fighting on behalf of Parliament. They were all a bunch of self serving jackalopes
Some of the confusion can be traced to the way the Church of England was established. Henry VIII left it doctrinally the Catholic Church, only without allegiance to Rome. On one day in 1540, he had three thorough-going Protestants burned at the stake and three Catholic priests drawn and quartered at the same place. (A Protestant and a priest were tied to each of three hurdles, and a satirical booklet imagined the conversation between two of them on the way to execution.)
Edward VI was a more enthusiastic Protestant and during his short reign a great many images and altar decorations were destroyed. Mary temporarily brought back Catholicism but her burning of over three hundred Protestants merely created martyrs and she probably helped Protestantism without intending to.
Elizabeth did not clear up the confusion - she seems to have favoured vestments and crucifixes in church services and her potential marriage partners included foreign Catholic princes. However she banned Catholic priests from being ordained in England and seems to have hoped Catholicism would gradually die out without priests. In 1570 she was excommunicated by the Pope, although this was only after she had been on the throne 12 years. After this, Catholic priests began to be executed by her authorities, but for many of the more doctrinaire Protestants the Church of England still kept too many Catholic practices. Although far more Catholics than Protestants were executed under Elizabeth, some "Puritans" were executed and more fell foul of the law for not attending Anglican services that included "Popish trinkets".
The same situation continued under James I and then his son Charles and the battle over the nature of the Church of England was one factor in the outbreak of the Civil War.
This argument is irrelevant since the Bible itself is already clear on the place of religious imagery. Exodus 25 shows 2 golden cherubim on the ark of the covenant as well as the imagery in the Jewish high temple. Scriptures are clear that there is a difference between images in honor of God and idols worshiped in place of God. Martin Luther himself was not an iconoclast.
I think burning images and ornaments is a waste. Just sell them to the God-forsaken Spanish and Italian.
@@mosesking2923 The Old Testament was often a description of what happened, not what ought to be. Jewish were later punished by God for their idolatry for thousands of years.
@@alexanderchenf1 God Himself commanded the Jews to build two golden angels on the ark of the covenant in Exodus 25. God is clearly okay with religious images, icons, and statues. The Protestants are simply rejecting scripture in an attempt to defy the Catholic Church. Simple as that.
@@mosesking2923 Does it matter? It's all made up anyway. Religion is just one more distraction to fill up our waking hours as we age and die.
Cromwell brings up the Spanish inquisition. The worst thing about the Inquisition was no one expected it. (Couldn't resist)
What would have been more gold than the one in the altar was if the Monty Python Spanish Inquisition knoked just in that instant
(Dramatic chord as they burst in) Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Nobody ever expects the Spanish Inquisition
🇬🇧-I didn’t expect the Spanish Inquisition. Ooop! 🫢
🇪🇸- Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
@@eaglesfan226 r chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again.
Imagine going to Sunday service one fine day and this lunatic starts going off, followed by a man with a freshly removed ear wandering in. For once you wouldn't miss football, I reckon
To hell with football. I rather enjoy Sunday church
"Away with this Popish idolatry!"
*Said by POPE Cromwell himself*
Guy Fawkes would NOT approve of that... oh wait he would cause he was a Catholic...
Sometimes a candlestick is just a candlestick.
Veneration of relics doesn't exalt the relic itself but what the relic represent. Paganism is believing in other gods and that stone statues are other gods, essentially religions outside of Judeo-christian theology.
The Catholic relics symbolizes YHWH, so why do you do the heresy of claiming Catholics do not worship G-d?
Truth is, the reformation's grievance against icons is due to the Protestant's lack of knowledge of hyperdulla, dulla, and latria.
@saladdogger here's a small example, buddy. 'And Elisha died, and they buried him. And the bands of the Moabites invaded the land at the coming in of the year. And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.' -
2 Kings 13:20-21 (the Authorized Version of his mighty Protestant Majesty and slayer of heretic Catholics, King James)
Does St. Paul teach us to imitate him?
Philippians 4:8-9 (RSV) Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. [9] What you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, do; and the God of peace will be with you.
Doesn't this detract from worship of God, by competing with it?
1 Corinthians 11:1 Be imitators [KJV, followers] of me, as I am of Christ.
So St. Paul sees no contradiction between imitating Him and imitating Jesus?
1 Thessalonians 1:6-7 And you became imitators of us and of the Lord, for you received the word in much affliction, with joy inspired by the Holy Spirit; [7] so that you became an example to all the believers in Macedo'nia and in Acha'ia.
Are we taught to venerate and imitate saints of the past?
Hebrews 6:12 so that you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
Is there any example of honoring or venerating a person after his or her death?
2 Chronicles 32:33 And Hezeki'ah slept with his fathers, and they buried him in the ascent of the tombs of the sons of David; and all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem did him honor at his death. And Manas'seh his son reigned in his stead.
Do we ever observe the permissible veneration of a living person?
1 Chronicles 29:20 Then David said to all the assembly, “Bless the LORD your God.” And all the assembly blessed the LORD, the God of their fathers, and bowed their heads, and worshiped [shachah] the LORD, and did obeisance [shachah] to the king. [KJV: “worshipped the LORD, and the king”]
Daniel 2:46-48 Then King Nebuchadnez'zar fell upon his face, and did homage to Daniel, and commanded that an offering and incense be offered up to him. [47] The king said to Daniel, “Truly, your God is God of gods and Lord of kings, and a revealer of mysteries, for you have been able to reveal this mystery.” [48] Then the king gave Daniel high honors and many great gifts,
Acts 16:29-31 And he called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas, [30] and brought them out and said, “Men, what must I do to be saved?” [31] And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Veneration of Angels and Men as God's Representatives
Do we ever see God allowing veneration and even bowing before a created angel?
Joshua 5:13-15 When Joshua was by Jericho, he lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, a man stood before him with his drawn sword in his hand; and Joshua went to him and said to him, “Are you for us, or for our adversaries?” [14] And he said, “No; but as commander of the army of the LORD I have now come.” And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and worshiped [shachah], and said to him, “What does my lord bid his servant?” [15] And the commander of the LORD's army said to Joshua, “Put off your shoes from your feet; for the place where you stand is holy.” And Joshua did so.
Is the “angel of the Lord” venerated?
Numbers 22:31 Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, with his drawn sword in his hand; and he bowed his head, and fell on his face.
veneration of images
Where do we find a physical object being venerated or shown honor, similar to an icon?
Joshua 7:6-7 Then Joshua rent his clothes, and fell to the earth upon his face before the ark of the LORD until the evening, he and the elders of Israel; and they put dust upon their heads. [7] And Joshua said, “Alas, O Lord GOD, why hast thou brought this people over the Jordan at all, to give us into the hands of the Amorites, to destroy us? Would that we had been content to dwell beyond the Jordan!
Did the temple have statues or carved images in it, associated with and always present during worship?
2 Chronicles 3:7 So he lined the house with gold -- its beams, its thresholds, its walls, and its doors; and he carved cherubim on the walls.
Did sacrifice and worship take place before the ark of covenant?
I chron 16:1-4 And they brought the ark of God, and set it inside the tent which David had pitched for it; and they offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before God. [2] And when David had finished offering the burnt offerings and the peace offerings, he blessed the people in the name of the LORD,
[3] and distributed to all Israel, both men and women, to each a loaf of bread, a portion of meat, and a cake of raisins. [4] Moreover he appointed certain of the Levites as ministers before the ark of the LORD, . . .
Did the Jews worship God through the presence of the supernatural pillar of cloud?
Exodus 33:10 And when all the people saw the pillar of cloud standing at the door of the tent, all the people would rise up and worship, every man at his tent door.
@saladdogger Again, learn the difference between hyperdulla, dulla and latria.
The problem here is the lacking in philosophical thought, unable to differentiate Latria 'adoration to God', hyperdulia 'veneration to Mary', and dulia 'veneration to saints'.
The english language just mixes the 3 so you get invalid statements like Catholics worship Mary, the Saints and God.
God forbids the 'latria' worship of other gods like the pagans do. Not necessarily pagans, but simply people who put earthly things as the highest in place of god.
It's not even strictly against statues, it was about placing other gods on the place of your latria worship, which is due to God alone. Even moses was commanded to create statues of cherub in the ark of the covenant. Divine conflict came when people starts replacing the place of God in their latria worship with other things, and Catholics never ever replaced their latria worship with other gods. That is just blasphemy
@saladdogger It doesn't matter to what people think as long as our theology adheres to the scripture, which of course is the point of controversy.
When Elizabeth, mother of John the Baptist, said "Hail Mary full of Grace the Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women and blessed the fruit in your womb", was she committing 'latria' worship to Mary? Elizabeth only praised her in the level of 'dulia' worship not 'latria' worship.
The serpent statue was established by Moses in the desert for the benefit of Israel, the cherub as well was a figure of heavenly things, did Moses break the commandment? No, because each commandment in the Torah had many sentences that emphasizes on the core message of the commandment. Thou shalt not worship other gods and thou shalt not make graven images of heavenly things are one similar thought ultimately commanding singular adherance to the God of Israel. All was fine unless the Israelites placed the statue instead of God in their 'latria' worship, even Catholic priests warn the leity not to make the same mistake and some Catholic rites have a day specifically to educate the leity of the limited purpose of statues by destroying them.
Your points doesn't invalidate my point. Again there are latria, dulia, and hyperdulia. No Catholics give the 'latria' worship to Mary. That's why we make use of the word 'veneration' which the uneducated populace thinks is just. 'latria' worship just made politically correct. Hence resulting in misrepresentation of what the Catholics practice and committing a lie that is also considered heresy in Catholicism.
Historical abuses aren't done due to icons. The Protestants abused more of their own with their unjust witch trials that prosecuted everyone they don't like. The Catholics with their inquisition gave fairer trial than what the heretics of England and north Germany ever had with their mob rule.
Indulgences, veneration of relics, and all other Catholic practices the Protestants were against were heavily antagonized by the dukes and kings, (England, north German states, nordic states, and even the French) who were against the hegemony of Habsburg Austria and Spain. Now that it's the modern era, people now see the actual philosophical thought behind these reasons.
@saladdogger It's difficult to talk reason to a man who disregards reason. I have told you the difference between latria and dulia, yet you still think they have no difference. Idolatry is to give latria worship to other than God, praying to Saints would be idolatry if Catholics were praying to them as if they're other gods. Also, it's flawed reasoning to judge Catholic theology by its followers whom has the freewill to make mistakes.
The answer to your new question is that the prayers to saints are intercessory asking them to pray to God for them, not worshipping them as another god. See the text of Hail Mary prayer. Again, it doesn't fit in the definition of idolatry because they are not considered other gods, and veneration of them is in turn acknowledging the divine supremacy of God.
So when he does it, he's "Lord Protector of England" and "a pious man," but when I do it, I'm "a dumbass" and "going to jail for three days"
That was because he won. The guy who had his ears cut off who comes in at the end was sanctioned for disrespect to the church.
You have the Irish and Italian immigrants to thank for this.
Me when my son wastes all his money on expensive ass clothes
Your son might just have class
Greatest actor ever.RIP Dickey Harris,cheers mate.
Gold is scriptural. The elements of the tabernacle including the Ark were so wrought with gold it is scarcely believable that the Israelites could pick them up and move them in the desert.
God prescribed very little in the way of worship, and yet the Church managed. But Christ also said that He was not come to do away with the old order. The only thing He really abolished was blood sacrifices, since He was the ultimate Sacrifice on the Cross.
You really need to try to take a stab at answering your own arguments before you say dumb stuff. Why was circumcision instituted? Circumcision predates the Commandments of the Law, and was a covenant between God and Abraham (and Abraham's children), promising to deliver them and send the Messiah. Christ obviously fulfilled that promise, and Christians no longer need to be circumcised, because the Messiah had come. This is pretty basic stuff, it's right there in Acts.
Not everything in the OT is one package. It would help to figure out which parts are a law for the Jews (like keeping kosher), which are immutable divine law (like forbidding homosexuality), and which are something else entirely (like circumcision).
+Gregory Walker Levitsky
Right on my dear Catholic, at least you see a little. But follow your logical conclusion, if Christ abolished animal sacrifices, since they were a shadow of him, he also abolished altars. And this is what Oliver Cromwell destroyed justly, shown in the video.
You know what God prescribes in the New testament? SIMPLICITY. No candles, no altars, no pope, no Vatican, no nothing. Just the preaching of the word of God. The Catholic church in its apostasy complicated all things again, the Babylonian Mother harlot impostor church that she is.
2Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
Moses who destroyed the golden calf also wielded the brazen serpent. Sounds to me like there's some nuance here. I think the key is, what is the intent of hte object. Is the object itself regarded as holy, or just as a symbol or representation? If it's the former, it violates the second Commandment. The latter is a gray area.
this Serpent was an article that was intended to allow the Israelite children to demonstrate faith-- just look at it and you are healed and that's how it worked. however Generations later one of the Judges found Israelites actually worshipping that snake and broke it into pieces. about 40 years ago archaeologists at that site actually found a broken serpent made of bronze which is now in a museum in Israel
The point was the objects that God commanded serve a certain utility and are not to be used as objects of worship as the monstrance placed in the center of a cross would be and just looking at a bare cross a Protestant could not tell if some sneaky Catholic would have put a monstrance behind the center of it just so they could put them into an act of worship which is part of why they took down all the crosses
My father, when the restaurant gets his order wrong...
For all its faults I love the movie Cromwell; historical inaccuracies, filmic license etc etc.. I'ts a great scene showing good acting emotion and fervour. It is interesting to note that as a quirk of film sound recording and mixing, Harris' voice, at times, sounds quite like the Dr Who DALEKS... Indeed later in the film Harris' voice seems hoarse from shouting!! Still probably my favorite film...just check out the quality of the costumes.
Calm down, Dumbledore O.O
Richard Harris sings "Macarthur Park".
(furiously throws cross, viciously swipes candelabras, ferociously tears altar cloth, lividly tosses collection plates)
"Did you put your name into the Goblet of Fire, Harry?" he asked calmly.
Addison Veitch
(Round house kicks the parish priest) "Are you _absolutely_ sure?"
As a Catholic, the first thing that struck me was that the men had their heads covered. For us, it's not paying enough respect to God
Goddamn Richard Harris is brilliant in this.
If you deny the Logos can be depicted, you deny he became visible.
If you deny the Logos became visible, you deny he became human.
If you deny the Logos became human, you deny salvation.
At first I read that as "Legos".
It made more sense that way.
Damn! I want Cromwell as my attorney AND in charge of my personal safety!
I wonder, had he lived in the days of King Solomon, would he have taken a hammer to the graven golden seraphim? Would he have destroyed the ark of the covenant with its engraved images and pulled the great tapestries from the temple walls?
No, that's not true. The Ark of the Covenant, covered in graven images, was used repeatedly in corporate worship before it was placed in the Inner Sanctuary. As the Seventh Ecumenical Council pronounced, the Second Commandment is not meant to be a restriction on the use of imagery (such as crosses, icons, or other imagery) in worship, but instead restricts the worship of imagery itself, especially in the form of idols.
Idolatry was the single greatest fault of the people of Israel, and the one thing most likely to get them into trouble. Solomon himself had that fault, being drawn by his many wives deep into problems with idolatry by the end of his life, which is about the time this temple was finished.
He may have been a holy man but he was still a man, subject to sin and the need for repentance.
Then again, Moses used graven symbols from time to time. Remember the brazen serpent. The point being, they can be used to teach and even to heal, but not set up to worship. That distinction is lost on many. So the problem is not, technically, the image, it's the attitude with which the image is regarded. Graven works and images can teach, instruct, inspire, and decorate, but if we start to make them sacred or deify them, we're taking a step on a short road to bad things.
Xorobabel That was under the OLD COVENANT! All the ceremonial law has been done away with! To promote such things under the New Covenant is idolatrous blasphemy!
Probably lol
@@Xorobabel Technically the golden calf issue was clearly defined as idolatry. The thing about that golden calf is that they did not worship the statue itself but used it as a focus for their worship and as an intermediary between them and the Lord. It was made to replace Moses and to lead them. Also they declared that the day after it was made would be a feast to the Lord. So we know the were not worshiping the calf itself but using it as an intermediary. Which is exactly what Catholicism teaches its adherents to do....The RCC even acknowledges that this is in fact worship but claims that it is a separate kind of worship that somehow isn't idolatry. Exactly like the israelites did in the wilderness. Do not forget that the Lord was so enraged by this that he turned his back to Moses and yelled at him to leave him alone so he could get ready to destroy them from the earth. Do not forget that Moses when he found out what his people did he caused them to ingest water mixed with the ground down idol which killed many of them probably slowly and painfully...
The church being disrupted wasn't Catholic. It was a Protestant Church of England.
Charles I and Archbishop Laud both wanted churches to be beautiful places and believed that that was what God wanted. They probably went too far in demanding all churches have a particular style of Crosses and Candlesticks etc.
The people who lived near to the Jews of old testament did practice idolatry because they believe that the idol was alive and was the God.
Ancient Greeks and Romans, while polytheists, didn't practice Idolatry because the didn't believe that the Statute of Zeus was alive. They believed it was an artistic representation of the God.
I believe Jesus cares much more whether we do a good job of following the Golden Rule (a very simple teaching which can often be very hard to follow). I believe he has little or no concern about how we decorate our Churches.
I think both Charles I and Cromwell did try to follow Jesus's teachings as they understood them. Both fell short of perfection (but all humans do).
I myself believe that Charles I did a better job of following Jesus's teachings than Cromwell but neither was close to being a saint.
Cecil Baxter I don't think they were worshipping a candlegod yeah, the puritans got pretty crazy sometimes with their... well, puritanical beliefs.
The Judeo-Protestants!
Charles I wasn't executed for his pro catholic leanings, although they surely didn't help. Charles I was executed for his constant dismissing of parliament and the subsequent forced loans aka stealing from the middle class merchants that resulted from having no parliament.
@@tibbygaycat it's still happening today... with Muslims. Young Muslim puritans like ISIS are harassing "old-school Muslims" (equivalent of Catholics) for being too idolatrous. They're also smashing old Muslim shrines the same way Protestants used to destroy holy relics.
When you place more attention and affection to objects than to God, it becomes idolatry. When you don't know God, the temptation to worship things is too great. People worship flags, money, even Christmas trees.
Richard Harris was among one of the most brilliant actors of his generation. I first saw this scene in 1970, when the movie was first primierd in Ireland. Richard Harris' views on Oliver Cromwell are unknown. However he did lament historical memory obsession in Ireland regarding Cromwell and his alleged
misdeeds and atrocities. Harris was one of the first Irish individuals to look with objectively on Cromwell in Ireland. Later Tom Relly wrote a book: entitled: " Honourable Enemy," in which he demonstrated from primary sources, and a host of other evidence, that Cromwell had behaved, in accordance with conventional standards demanded by a man of his rank, and did not commit immoral acts against the Irish citzenery, but had ruthlessly pursued the Royalists, and their supporters, and the Irish Catholic Confederation. That is to say Cromwell accepted surrender terms by his enemies, and did not engage in rampage and slaughter.
As I said Richard Harris never commented on the movie to my knowledge. He was a complex and contradictory man, and played the part of Cromwell in the movie with superb skill, capturing the iron conviction and passion of Cromwell brilliantly. Though the movie is full of holes historically, it manages to convey the tumultuous war-ridden era extremely well. To add another irony to the producers idea of having an Irishman play Oliver Cromwell, l too must too state that I am lrish and an very EX-Roman Catholic. The scene where Cromwell flings the graven image of the cross and crys: " Does the King not remember the Reformation," is utterly outstanding. Whether this happened or not, it sets the fanatical tone and irreversible character of the overall narrative.
Cogent analysis. I wish there was more light than heat when it came to Irish-British history.
I actually remember Harris saying that Oliver Cromwell was a honourable man
As far as I know, the Covenanters were far more brutal to civilians than the New Model Army.
I mean..... duh
Drodhega thinks differently...
Poor minister is like, "Dude, calm down."
Lol, Cromwell sure is a demon, he fear a Cross.
We had a teacher used to get in that kind of fit when the class hadn't learned its homework. Funny thing was, his voice got choked up and raspy the same as Cromwell's in this clip, until he calmed down again. We used to be glad when he blew up at the beginning of class, again like Cromwell did in the clip, because it only lasted five minutes, after which he'd be nice and calm for the rest of class ..... but if he didn't blow up at the start he'd spend the whole class period building up to it.
"He's gone off on one again. Send for the earless man."
Cromwell also banned christmas. Another righteous act.
Didn’t he also hate the color yellow and banned that too?
He has a lot of passion, unlike most people.
Coz the actor is irish lol..the irony
It's a great film, although is has its many unhistorical moments.
Richard and Alec are brilliant.
I watch it till Cromwell and his horrible Puritans get there arse kicked at edge hill then I turn it off
When the CEO instructs you to do something, but then your immediate supervisor says “no way!”
If he hates idols so much he should of converted to Islam.
The service shown is Church of England as authorized by the Stuart King (married to a Roman Catholic wife), and by Archbishop Laud, a high church advocate. All this talking in the comment stream of Rome and the Roman mass is irrelevant. Catholicism was already suppressed in Britain by Cromwell's time. Cromwell was, along with the Puritan fanatics a hater of both Roman Catholics , the monarchy, and most Anglicans (except the most low church kind). The monarchy had its revenge later when Cromwell's corpse was dug up and torn apart. High church Anglicanism slowly, slowly came back, and in a few places candles and crosses were used on the altar, ad then that became common use later.
You're speaking into a void, I fear. If the Puritans had got their way, there would never have been a Prayer Book, let alone the rest of it. The baby and the bathwater were not enough; the tub had to go as well.
Oliver Cromwell put Britain onto a map and made it great. Now, without the godly men like Oliver Cromwell, Britain is slowly becoming insignificant like it was before Cromwell. And if Scotland and Ireland and even Wales brakes away, you will be even more insignificant. Somewhere in the book of Judges, it is mentioned when countries loose land, it's because God is punishing them for all their sins and departure from his Word.
@@bozz3755 Strange, then, that the British Empire swelled to its greatest point AFTER Cromwell. Victoria is generally not pointed to as the most devout of monarchs, nor is the Victorian era considered the most devout of eras. Your assertion is false. Britain has "diminished" in more recent years because it realized that holding other nations subject to it was more trouble than it was worth. Some there realize the immorality of such an act, and the rest realize at least that the cost was not worth it.
@@roguishpaladin If Cromwell did not build the foundation for the British Empire to swell later after he was long gone, Britain would never became Great and an Empire. Every objective historian knows that and tells of it. You don't know the true impact of Cromwell and the foundation he built. Even America and their constitution would not exist without Cromwell and the Puritans plus the Hugenots in France, and the Calvinists in Geneva and the Netherlands. And without the Reformation Cromwell would not exist. So it all comes down to the Bible. You don't know history and the impact on the freedoms and rights of people, the Reformation had which later resulted in prosperity of all these protestant nations. Protestant nations compared to atheist and Catholic nations were the most prosperous ones. They are failing today, because they turned their back to God and are becoming godless heathen/pagan, atheist again, rejecting God's morals and thus bringing the curse of God upon themselves. The demise of Britain is a prime example of that. They are totally corrupt today. British tourists wherever they come are one of the most immoral today, with the rest of the world following in their steps and thus the inevitable demise of the whole world. What a great fall from the days of Puritans in which Britain was a godly country. If you'd know half the things I know people are doing today in secret, your stomach would turn. Climate crisis is a judgment of God. The end is near.
Candles like that didnt appear until the mid 1800s
1:47 I didn´t expect that
Imagine soying out over a gold candle holder and chalice because you don't understand the second commandment.
Cromwell the hero of all American cowboys and British workers
American cowboys would be descendants of the Cavaliers not the Puritans.
I have mixed feelings about Cromwell, on one hand he stood up for the average person but in the other hand he committed genocide on the Irish. I don’t care for King Charles I because he was a tyrant.
@@alexs5744 I'm pretty sure the irish are still here pal, he did not commit genocide. And the Conquest of Ireland is what made Cromwell cool anyway, crushing the irish and putting them in their place.
Amen!!!!!!
@@alexs5744So you're saying Charles I was a tyrant but Cromwell wasn't?
Before anyone asks, ‘twas I that pissed in his Cheerios.
*when you purity spiral and no one has the guts to reel you back in*
Of course Cromwell was a bipolar manic depressive which inclined him to experience extremes of both high and low moods.
Cromwell really didn’t know his scripture and apostolic tradition. One wonders if he had destroyed the Ark of the Covenant for being covered with gold!
Yes, to you.
To Mr. Cromwell, I say: no, the Church of England is _not_ a protestant church - at least not in the sense that the Reformed Churches are. The break in communion with the Holy See is schismatic - not heretical - in nature.
Fraticelliism (this extreme anti-materialism) was declared heretical hundreds of years before the schism
Cope.
Yes, cope to that loser in hell, me Cromwell
I still fail to understand why he trashes the cross that's sacred to all Christians
dramatic licence
"This is why we can't have nice things, dear!!!"
Cromwell: "Did the Lord not say unto Moses: 'thou shalt not make unto thyself any graven image, nor bow down to them?'"
Priest: "And did Saint Paul not say to you: 'every man praying or prophesying having his head covered, dishonoureth his head?' So whatcha doing wearing a hat in church, pilgrim?"
Yes!YES!😂😂😂😂I was wondering the same thing!
I’m pretty Protestant myself, but God did command his people to keep golden candelabras in the tabernacle. Also, he commanded them to fashion the Ark of the covenant with the image of 2 angels. The second commandment refers to making a graven image with intent to worship it. Otherwise, God wouldn’t have commanded his people to make images like the bronze serpent. Still, if their consciences were bothered by it, my Puritan forefathers did the right thing if they acted out of faith.
Idolitry is having other Gods.
Jesus is not another God. His mother didn't stop being mom as the PROTESTANTS teach.
Jesus obeys his own commandments.
@@uncatila teaching that Mary is divine and that Mary is essential for salvation is idolatry. Having golden crosses, crucifixs etc is idolatry. Sorry but Cromwell was right in this instance.
"pretty Protestant"? You don't seem to understand the core tenants LOL
H3llb0und
The central tenants of Protestantism are sola scriptura, sola fide, sola gratia, Solus Christus, and Sola Deo Gloria. All of which I am quite familiar with and agree with 100%. The controversy over the use of icons is not central by any means. Besides, the Puritans (whose wisdom I highly admire) took their opposition to icons way further than the rest of the Protestants. Most Protestants are just opposed to depictions of Christ, the Father and the Spirit. The cross isn’t God and no one thought it was. No one was worshiping the cross itself, which is why it was unnecessary for Cromwell to do what he did.
@@thefatking3154 where did God or Jesus or any of the apostles say make golden crosses and use them in the church?
I wish Catholics would realize this today...
Nope. Cromwell is an atheist dirtbag.
Realise what? Your heretic lunacies and desacration of the Holy Cross?
The pews were obviously too comfortable..
That altar looks almost perfect! All it needs is a tabernacle...
The Church Christ established upon Peter is the One, Holy, CATHOLIC and Apostolic Church.
Pax ✝️ 🇻🇦
Timothy Freeman haha I’m Anglican.
Weird considering we aren’t Jews living in the Old Testament.
I admire his conviction !
I thought the man entering the Church would be like "Oh he's at it again"
I wish Armando Iannucci would do a remake of this film along with the same brilliant black humor he did with ‘The Death Of Stalin’
I went to a Catholic mass for the first time a few weeks ago, and people were going up to a statue of Mary and kissing her feet. Mentally I was remembering this scene, lol.
Ave Maria
I'm a lifelong Caþolic and I've never seen þat, but it seems pretty based.
@@StarsBarsAndCheeseeh, each to their own.
1:42 What if Cromwell caused the Church to burn down throwing that candle XD
If Cromwell heard modern day worship music he would have pulled a Pete Townshend.
is it just me
or does anyone else hear the words EXTERMINANE....E X.T E R M I N A T E ….during his rage
brilliant Richard harris
'Don't make graven idols.' - Destroys candlesticks, a cross, and some fabric....not sure he quite understood what that means
Shut up catholic
Puritans were known to hate ‘altars’ themselves, not just graven idols.
@@andrewa626 You're mad Protestantism's fruits prove its own illogical nature.
@@Joshharrison224 Get mad, tran(substation)ny boy. At least our leaders of the church doesn't grovel to the leaders of South Sudan's feet and kiss them to sue for peace.
@@andrewa626 political matters from my Church don’t mean anything to me and mean nothing to doctrine. You’re so vain, and your mouth resembles nothing of a Christian.
You lack virtue. But who cares about virtue when you (wrongly) presume you’re saved?
where can i watch this movie
i have searched the dark corners of the internet and have only found a spanish version please help
If you want to stream it's on Amazon video. Also second-hand DVDs are around on the cheap.
He always makes a scene doesn't he? "fuck sake Cromwell sit the fuck down"
1:05 Yes, squire, the Church of England is a Protestant church. And the King of England is its Supreme Governor.
"You're not you when you're hungry."
Anyone have any ideas what the soundtrack at the end is from?
It's the soundtrack from the movie. Search Cromwell 1970 soundtrack.
What’s the song that’s played at the end? It’s fantastic
Honestly would love to know too
I think a few folks missed the point here this is the king of England adding the Roman Catholic Church finery to plain Protestant churches by Royal edict not by any church Authority or authority in the Bible the next thing after putting a crucifix up which was considered an anathema, to have an image of the cross, would be to add a monstrance to the center of the cross. in fact when I first saw this cross in this scene I thought it did have a monstrance in the center... and what is a monstrance you may ask? that is a receptacle in which a communion wafer would be placed which was to represent the physical body of Christ in the Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation in other words you're worshipping the actual Body of Christ in the form of the wafer in the center of the monstrance which would be a horrible sin to the mind of the Puritan.
There were already lights in the church to keep the place lit. the idea of adding extra candlesticks was to add to the pomp and to add to the "Majesty" that the Catholics thought they were conveying to God just so you see a bit of an idea of where they are coming from this is all part of how government functions they introduce a small accommodation in a slightly larger accommodation then greater and greater things that must be obeyed ultimately at which point people often say "well I might as well be Catholic or well my ideas weren't so great after all because we've gone so far" that is what Cromwell was about and I thought the image of Cromwell with a Papal Mitre was downright insulting actually
It was all about right Doctrine and fighting for the Salvation of The Souls of the people
Roger Sheddy
Sir, I agree with everything you say doctrinally and histroically. I think since the days of the Puritans, a more learned and godly class of men we will never see. That is at least until the Lord comes again.
This name and popehat image is but an ironic online name I use.
I am impressed you were able to type this much without punctuation
@@alexanderchenf1
Thank you.
Thank God someone said it finally! No one else seems to get it. They perceive Cromwell as a religious extremist but frankly, he was defending the core principles of the reformation of Christianity that occurred, where we threw out all the Catholic splendour because it is morally corrupt, this is a key part of the reformation everyone seems to ignore. Look at all the pompous gold and robes, ceremony in Catholicism vs Protestantism. The reformation was key to the development of the ideals of individual liberty etc. It was the reformed faith which lead to the rise of the west.
Okay nerd
"The Word became Flesh" and is now portrayable.
This gets me fired up for sunday morning
What is that glorious tune at the end?
It was a while ago, but if I recall correctly it's the Intermission from the Cromwell OST.
Quite hard to find conplete, you have to hunt thoroughly for it. Part of it is heard here: m.czcams.com/video/o34Y1m8EREY/video.html
I'd recommend a listen. It was nominated for best score.
And looking down upon all this noise, God did shake his head:
"Where's the interpreter? I said RENOVATION!"
Man can't even pray without throwing a fit, crosses, and knocking down candlesticks.
We Muslims had our version of Oliver Cromwell, his named was Ibn Tamiyah.
No offense, but you still have plenty of them. And they're as murderous now as Cromwell was then.
the collection?
Candlesticks, crosses pissed him off...BUT Christmas sent him into Blind Fury!
Sometimes a candlestick is just a candlestick🤣
Cromwell was saying that kings were being worshiped like a god and that was blasphemy.
Cromwell the only kinda guy to go into a Protestant church and call it “too catholic” 💀
He wasn't the only one. The Scots kicked off as well over Charles I attempt to reimpose Catholicism by the back door.
I've seen this film lambasted so many times, but Harris was on fire for this part...
He was good.
Prophetic words Mr Cromwell.
Heavens knows what he would make of the CofE these days. The safe days of apron, buttoned gaiters, strings and rosettes on hats, are alas, no more. I prophecy that the rochet and chimere will be the next to fall. And instead their Lordships' Bench is given popish trinkets and baubles with which to amuse themselves, as we are led once more into the Babylonian Exile. Heady times indeed!
He was right. Look at what's happening to America today. The crosses are gold wrapped in rainbow colored linen.
It might be best to tear down their idols.
From which movie does this clip come from?
ksj1526 'Cromwell'