What It Means to be TRULY Orthodox (w/ Dr. Jeannie Constantinou)
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- čas přidán 3. 07. 2024
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In this video I'm joined by Dr. Jeannie Constantinou, scholar, podcaster, and author of the recent book, Thinking Orhtodox. In this video we discuss what it means to be a true Orthodox theologian, how to develop an Orthodox phronema, the Orthodox Nous, and so much more.
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Hey! My name is Austin, and I'm a 22 year old guy who’s passionate about the beautiful simplicity and transformative power of the gospel. I believe that the gospel, the good news about Jesus, is really good news, and I’m out to explore, unpack, and share that good news with as many people as possible. I'm a full blown Bible and Church History nerd that loves getting to dialogue with others about this, learning as much as I can, and then teaching whatever I can. I grew up around Frederick, MD where I eventually ended up working my first job at a church. They made the mistake of letting me try my hand at teaching, and instantly I fell in love. That set me on a path for further education, and I'm currently a student at Moody Bible Institute in Chicago, IL, studying theology. On any given day you can find me with my nose in a book or a guitar in my hands. Want to get to know me more? Follow me and say hi on Instagram at: @austin.suggs
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I’m an Orthodox Christian and I really enjoy your channel. I love how you bring people from various Christian faith traditions and just have a conversation. I haven’t noticed any Eastern Catholics on your show yet. That would be interesting.
@@MrCoachdunham I would be really interested in that as well.
@@MrCoachdunham Or for that matter, Western Rite Orthodox.
This guest is phenomenal!! I converted to Catholicism 12 years ago but recently began learning about the early Church and I feel so pulled to Orthodoxy. She is so crystal clear and passionate LOVE HER!
She is also wonderfully giving with her time. I emailed her with questions while I was doing graduate studies (in a completely different school), after my priest suggested I contact her, and she emailed back almost immediately with a novel's worth of information for me to consider. After exchanging a few emails, it was easy to conclude that she is a very open and giving person.
Come home!
To have the mind of Christ will guide you into all truth . It is the power of God unto Salvation.
Jcgurl you will not sorry coming into Orthodoxy. It’s awesome. I’ve been a convert of 47 years. She is spot on concerning our way of life. She gives an excellent explanation of why we are so different from Catholicism and Protestantism
Time then for you to study some Catholic theology! Then take a look at Ukraine.
wow, i studied and graduated from the California Baptist University, studied 10 years reformed Calvinism, theology and Westminster confession, but....this lady put something in my soul....if i became orthodox it will be because of her
Any updates?
Update?
@mirando100
Update?
I'm being received as an Orthodox catecumen this Sunday. Thank you for this interview. Glory to God!
God grant you many yeara☦☦☦
@@marieegypt7091 thank you so much! 🙏
Welcome home!
Praise the Lord... We pray for all Orthodox catechumen brothers and sisters so that Lord make them worthy of the receiving in His True Church... Blessings
Same here!! God Bless.
Well said: Orthodox Christianity takes time to understand and acquire; it’s worth the time and effort.
You're right. It took 1054 years after Jesus to exist.
I believe it takes more than one lifetime. I grew up in the Catholic Church and converted to Orthodoxy about 9 yrs ago when I was 35. Understanding and realizing the Phronema, and how to train your nous takes a lifetime. What I realized while converting was that there there is no spirituality on western Christianity. I am so thankful I found the Orhrodox Church.
@@T_dog1 An offended Catholic I see. Well as an ex Catholic who grew up in the Catholic Church, going to Catholic schools and learning the catechism, I can understand the struggle of hearing the things I’m this video. I was there 13 yrs ago when I was searching for truth. It took me 4 yrs to realize that everything this women said is true. The Orthodox Church is the original church. And you won’t be able to understand it until you experience it. The deep spirituality that exists in the Orthodox Church has all but been lost in the west. And she nailed it when saying how the Catholic Church became so legalistic/academic in the Middle Ages, relying on intellect and reason to know God. It’s not possible.
@@joshuagilmore7522 many Bible quotations stating that The Way is difficult; why should it be so difficult if all you need is a: statement of faith, or to become wealthy in the name of Jesus, or recognize a infallible Pope?
It’s difficult because The Way itself is difficult to acquire, parts will always be a mystery, to deny your self your passions ect is counter intuitive. It takes development, it takes Holy Traditions that change you as a person at the deepest level. Indeed it is foolishness and makes no sense until you commit yourself to The Way and you start to encounter Grace/Love like never before. I’m glad your on your Way. God’s speed to you.
@Hyperborean Futurism Amen!
You should try to get Fr. Spyridon Bailey on the show!
YES!!!!A thousand times over. He's my favorite orthodox priest........and I'm protestant! XD
Yes yes!!! Great suggestion!
And Father Anthony Mourad too
Father Spyridon ... Yes ☦️
I'm reading his book Orthodoxy and the Kigndom of Satan. I highly recommend it.
Her book “Thinking Orthodox” opened my eyes to so much. Mainly how far I have to go in my journey of faith but still… I love her stance and her conviction and she was a big reason for mine and my wife’s entering into Orthodoxy.
If Orthodox isnt about thinking then what’s the point of “thinking orthodox”🤔 “orthodox” in its meaning means “right thinking” Everyone has a theological conviction is based on a presupposition which is a way of thinking that brings about a right practice. It would be wise to say Eastern Orthodox have a different theological presupposition than the Protestant unless it would be presented as contradictive statements. Other than that, she brought a powerful expression on the word study on phromena!
Welcome to orthodox Christianity god bless ☦️🙏💝
δόξα ( doxa) =glory,praise
@@supercoopers8688
More precisely a Christian “phronema” is its belief coupled with action. It is the orientation of the heart which gives rise to a way of life which is in accordance with the will of God, to the extend one opens him/herself up to the grace of the Holy Spirit.
Austin. Whatever your future may hold, you are an incredible mediator of discussion. Thank you so much for your channel. This was a riveting interview and one that I will revisit.
@Messerah Allrighty then.
I too thought that the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church were very similar. But now after being Orthodox for more than 10 years I see that they couldn't be more different. I was a member of 2 different Catholic orders so I spent a lot of time in prayer and learning about the faith. But I finally found the fullness of the faith in the Orthodox ☦ Church.
You should see the WR orthodox church’s
@@jp-eg6md What are you talking about?
@@marieegypt7091 just like Catholics have a Byzantine rite Orthodox has a Latin right
@@jp-eg6md Oh I see. Yes I know of WR but I'm not interested.
I couldn’t disagree more. The love for the Theotokos and the importance of the Eucharist are the same in both Churches
Excellent, this woman really knows Orthodoxy and presents so well.
She should stick to that then and keep away from criticizing the one true church.
@@wolfthequarrelsome504 If you're dogma can't withstand a little disagreement then you must fear it's to weak to defend.
The Orthodox make the same claim as the one true Church.
As a Protestant studying the history and teachings of various traditions I would have to say the Catholic Church left the true Church by adding and changing dogma at the whim of one guy.
@@jameshill8498 Really. 1) Who proclaimed the prohibition on divorce?
2) What is the Orthodox doctrine on divorce?
Just one argument countering your assertion.
@@mrmaggoo35 I don't know but exactly what you mean but Jesus specifically stated that divorce would be disallowed except for cases of sexual immorality which is pretty much the stance of the Orthodox church.
@@josephsaab7208 Sexual immorality is one instance, abuse of any kind is another. I don't understand why some Catholics seem to have this idea that the Orthodox are willy-nilly about divorce. Divorce, generally speaking, is a grave tragedy in the Church's eyes. But no one is perfect, and sometimes lines are crossed, sometimes two people should not be together. It's a complicated question.
I had to pause the video at 31:52 to write this.... I have never in all my years gave much, if any at all, thought to our Orthodox brothers & sisters. I thought, as she clearly pointed out, that Orthodoxy was just another form of Roman Catholicism without a Pope. I learned a new term that I never knew before....PHRONEMA..... At this moment in the video, I am now very eager to go out and research & learn much more about Orthodoxy (after I finish watching the rest of this video of course!) and then truly reflect in prayer, much much prayer, what GOD wants me to do next with the rest of my life. Amazing.
OK, back to the video.....
czcams.com/video/piVdrtgo7Xw/video.html
Fr. Josiah Trenham videos Rock and Sand are very informative..
God bless you brother... Search and pray and God will guide you safely to His true Orthodox Church.. Blessings
Glory to God... Lord have mercy on you, protect and Guide you on your Journey to the Truth.
czcams.com/video/WuDz_hd2SdE/video.html
I would love to hear an update about your journey!
God wants you to be Orthodox
That point about Christ not writing anything down, his dialogue in the gospels being about 15mins worth (read aloud) compared to 3 years showed me just how completely impoverished sola scriptura is. Christ did not leave us a book like Mohammed, He left us a Church.
but CHRIST NEVER once implied the organized, institutional, imperial cult ROMAN CATHOLICISM became. Besides, the ORTHODOX at Antioch and Jerusalem is the original church, and woefully in need of PROTESTANT reformation too! OK?
Actually I don't agree with you. If you read the Old Testament you will see that God was very specific about His instructions when it came to worship and the temple, very organised and very institutional. It is not just Antioch and Jerusalem, the New Testament literally has books named after Thessalonica and Corinth, which means Greece too. No offence, but the reformation into what? 30,0000 different denominations that don't agree on anything? No thanks, you can keep your reformation.
The Word of God judges men not the reverse. The church is made up of sinful men!!!
Orthodoxy is a cult of Mary.
Basic error. The Word IS Christ, not pieces of paper with ink on them, that is scripture. This is basic Christianity 101.
I've watched this like 3 times you both are amazing. Orthodoxy what christ taught what the apostles preached and what the fathers kept
Well said... Amen 🙏
Amen☦️
@@arthurhallett-west3372 The Roman emperors called the Ecumenical Councils where true theological doctrines were confirmed and false teachings were rebutted and condemned as such. All this by the Holy Spirit working in the Church through the saints.
No he didn't. Please stop lying.
hi. do we have any evidence that the 3rd-4th-5th and so on church fathers taught what the apostles preached and that nothing was added? seems very hard to believe because when we read the fathers, they all had their own opinions.
I’m currently reading her book, and now I will be able to read it “in her voice”. So that’s super cool. It’s been mind blowing and amazing! The more I learn, the hungrier I get for more.
Deacon Michael Hyatt is doing a great podcast series through the book right now. You could easily catch up. It's called "At the Intersection of East and West".
Also, as she said, I would recommend her podcast for sure!
sounds perfect
@@innocentgreen1338 I’m currently listening to that podcast actually! I started from the oldest episode and working my way through them. I’m on “Mary as Theotokos” today. 😊
The Audio version is quite literally in her voice, if you like audio books too.
@@arthurhallett-west3372 hatred plus bitterness overflowing... Holy Orthodoxy trumpling down the Latin heresy
I love how she just says the plain truth and isn’t worried about softening the blow
yea she's about as subtle as a boat paddle in the butt!😀
She nailed it
When she says that the theology of the Catholic Church is based entirely on human reason she is wrong. She is right to emphasize a way of life and mindset passed down from the early church but she is wrong when she says that this is not a part of the Western Tradition. That Catholic Church does have an apostolic way of life, and mystical mindset, and a theology rooted in mystery. She has the burden of proof to demonstrate her claims. All she does is make claims but she doesn’t substantiate them. One might say this is straight talk but it is also lazy and unconvincing because she is misrepresenting her opponents with easily debunked slander.
@@Quantum1008 Her point is that if the RCC really had that mindset, the _phronema_ present in the pre-schism and preserved in the Orthodox Church, then the West should not and would not have diverged so radically from the Eastern Church. Yes, she sweeps broadly, but this is an hour-long interview primarily about _a book she wrote which obviously speaks in greater detail._
@@nuzzi6620 well said
As an Orthodox who had the luck to be born in an Orthodox environment (and was not aware of the value of this luck) I feel humbled when reading the messages of the people who have become Orthodox Christians after being born and raised in other environments. Now, that I am in a "religious tolerant" aka secular country, I really get to SEE! I was just saying the other day to a friend of mine who is back in my home country: "You don't know just how lucky you are that you can at any time enter in any Orthodox Christian church that is in your way and you can light a candle and say a prayer!" And she - who has never lived in a foreign country - said to me: "Here indeed you are right! It's a luck and a blessing that I can enter, recollect and pray at any time in any church!" In my case, the only solution is listening to online live liturgy.
I love Dr. Constantinou! Her podcasts are extremely informative. Her book "Thinking Orthodox" is very good as well. I think everyone should read it, Orthodox or not.
"....stepping into the living current of the life of Christ." That describes my experience, coming into the Orthodox Church a year ago as a lapsed Protestant.
Chrismated two weeks ago on the Sunday of the 7th Ecumenical Council, along with adult son who was baptized. We are Home, at last.
God bless you both. Welcome home
Praise the Lord... Blessings🙏
@@Mixali88 thank you!
@@evans3922 thank you!
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, Russians, Americans, African Americans, Mexicans, Chinese, Japanese, Taiwanese, Arabs, Copts, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Colossians 3:11
Welcome home, american brother!
P. S. From Russia with love.
I think I learned more about Orthodoxy from Dr. Constantinou in this interview than any other video I've watched. As a Protestant, I found that I agreed with much that she said.
Nice job Austin in asking questions and digging further into some of the things she said the needed a further explanation.
Make sure you listen to Searching the scriptures and Searching the Scriptures live... The first is about the Old Testament, and the second is about the New Testament. I've learned so much from these podcasts.
Oh, wow! You were finally able to get Dr. Jeannie on your channel. This will be great. She is a fount of Orthodox wisdom and knowledge. She came to my church in San Diego to give a talk on St. John Chrysostom’s teachings on almsgiving. She’s a dynamic and charismatic speaker. Love her! 🙏❤️☦️
It was a really fun episode!
I'm amazed at how well you take her critiques of Protestantism...I feel like most of my protestant friends would cringe at the line "Catholics and Protestants are two sides of the same coin"... they'd hate to acknowledge that the presuppositions are strikingly similar. And their defense would go way up.
@@e.a.c.2175
You're a dream.
You really have me chortling 😉😄😁
@@e.a.c.2175 He's good at his job. That's why he gets to have amazing people on his channel.
Austin...you have an amazing patience, which requires humility, which speaks to your personality, to do these interviews with such grace!
As a devout Catholic...she has ruffled my feathers a few times...ha!
I would like to see her in a debate with a Catholic, and a Protestant....not at the same time....though that could be fun...none of us are ready for that!
Thinking Orthodox is the first book I read on the Orthodox faith. It will forever be on my list of books that had a life-changing impact. Love Dr. Jeannie. There are times when I think she is "soapboxing" and then I remember her C.V...it doesn't come from lack of study. She actually knows what she is talking about. You did a lovely job of engaging and displaying her expertise. Great job!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Glory to God! I was just listening to the podcast The Intersection of East and West which is currently doing a study on Jeannie's book: Thinking Orthodox. Immediately, I thought of you, dear Austin, as an inquirer into the faith. May it be blessed ☦️ you have my prayers
I’m only halfway through this interview but it’s blowing my mind as a Protestant.
Out of curiosity, which part did you find mind blowing ?
Orthodoxy is amazing and mind blowing
Austin, as an Orthodox Christian I have nothing but respect for you. Your humility in your interviews is wonderful, and I see many Christ-like qualities in you. Thank you for putting all this work in for your viewers. God bless you.
He’s the best. Such an example to us all.
Agree.
I love Austin 🥰😇
Thank you as always Austin 🕊
And of course... Glory be to God.
Thank you so much! It's my pleasure getting to do this
A few years ago I listened to Dr. J’s series about how we got our canon of scripture, and it was incredible. Was excited to listen to this podcast and it was excellent. I see some comments that are a bit taken back by her passion, but I love it! I could sit and listen and learn from her for days. Very educational material here for anyone interested in learning more about the Orthodox Church.
Those commenters aren't used to interacting with Greek women! 😆
She's cool, you're cool, your channel is cool, and this interview was cool. You don't owe anyone in the comments a win dude. Thanks for just making great content.
I believe this Dr. believes what she is saying with her whole heart and soul. Though I do think she waves off Catholics and Protestants way too easily.
I would love to see her perform with a little push back...maybe Trent Horn, or Jimmy Akin!
I want to hear her explanation of why there is so much splintering within Orthodoxy.
Thank you Austin for all the hard work, and for being able to contain your own emotion during these interviews!
I know as a devout Catholic, that my feathers have ruffled a few times!
God bless! 💠
I think she is to quick to dismiss the historical context on which two churches developed. That influenced a lot the theological work. One was the supremacy in Europe the other under the hammer of the Islam
@@eglistellez9185 I think she wasn't trying to dwell on the historical context...her mission is to explain orthodoxy especially to those who are already orthodox and dont understand the orthodox tradition.
Well, you could always, I don't know, read her book? And I'm not sure what sort of splintering you're referring to aside from fringe schismatic groups present in both RC and EO traditions (such as might include the SSPX, SSPV, IMB, etc. in your tradition). But hey, no need to debate here when tons of literature has been written and every question already asked and answered a thousand times over in books, online and of course in the real world.
The Orthodox faith is not splintered. It is just not monotone, as she tries to point out. The faith is consistent, but doctrine does not dictate all interpretation. The faith is taught first of all by the Holy Spirit, as Christ Himself said it would. So it is taught to full human beings, not just to their minds, but to their hearts, to their souls, even to their bodies. It is a faith that is lived, a faith of deeds, a cooperation of God and the faithful, producing the Christian life, made possible by the in-dwelling of God in His people, creating the Body of Christ. Christ is the vine, we are the branches. Living together, and living together with God, there can be no inconsistency. Inconsistencies are a product of sinfulness, but God came to overcome that sinfulness within us, and gave us the Holy Mysteries as the means to do so. Faith is oneness with God. Orthodoxy and its doctrines do not accomplish that. They point the way to Who does.
Here is a recent debate between Trent Horn and Jay Dyer on should Christians accept Natural Theology which is the stance of the Roman Catholic Church. Trent tried his best but was refuted by Jay.
czcams.com/video/tLeqQaoSeyQ/video.html
great interview, thanks for hosting it
Greetings from a romanian Ortodox Christian 🙏 God bless you 🙏
Whew this was so good. So so good. Thank you for this
WOW!! This was great. Thank you for bringing Dr. Jeannie on your channel.
Being an Orthodox Christian I absolutely love these videos; they are simple and just have a wealth of knowledge for everyone; including people within the faith that may not be privy or may have missed certain aspects of the sect. TYSM for sharing.
Wow this woman truly triggered so many people in this comment sections. Just like video games if you encounter opposition, it means your going the right way. God bless you Dr. Constantinou! ☦️
Austin, You did it! You brought Dr. Jeannie Constantinou on board! Well done!
I learned so much, and also remembered things i've forgotten. Wonderful interview, excellent questions.
Will be rewatching this one!
I'd thoroughly recommend her audio book. Usual great interview by Austin.
The actual best part about your premieres is they always drop right as I get back from class so I can always watch them live
Well that works out nicely!
Love her so much. She is really awesome. And she is one of my favorite people that I have actually had the joy of interviewing as well!
Great interview Austin!
You do a great job of finding the right people to interview :) looking forward to listening in!
Thanks!
I am soooo looking forward to this! Thanks be to God for making this interview happen. Dr. Jeannie is a blessing and I have learned so much from her podcasts 🙏❤️
Wonderful!
Best interview yet. I learned SO much thank you both so much!! I am a cradle Orthodox Christian with a degree in theology and I have been struggling so much as I raise my children with which Christian tradition makes the most sense to me. Your channel has brought me back to orthodoxy and I am so thankful, this interview more than any other has clarified things for me. THANK YOU
So resonate with this. Blessings to you and your children ❤
Also the interview notwithstanding, I wonder about incorporating elements from catholicism with my own future kids? (Currently pregnant with the first) like teaching them about some wonderful catholic saints and traditions? What do you think?
@@CatieD of course absolutely! Rooting them deeply and firmly into faith gives them a wonderful foundation for whatever life throws at them. For our family orthodoxy is the way for sure, but if Catholicism is what resonates most deeply with you, then of course pass that on. I recommend reading "Out of the Ashes" and the "Benedict Option" as 2 great books on why we need to raise our children with faith at this moment in time.
@@prodigaldaughter00 thank you so much for the thoughtful reply! I guess my concern is that i dont want to confuse them by teaching them the catholic tradition when we go to an orthodox church but on the other hand one of my greatest dreams is to see the churches reunite. thanks for the book recommendations... haven't heard of out of the ashes, i'll check it out! ❤
@@CatieD I see your point. I think if presented as a custom you grew up doing and framed that way. As well as explaining how and why it's different from the orthodox that could be nice for your child(ren). Blessings to you on your journey of motherhood, it's an absolutely wonderful experience
@@CatieD You could simply approach the stories of saints, etc. as history and explain as you read them that these stories carry weight for you because of your upbringing and thus pass down your family culture to the next generation.
Austin, I am so grateful that you had Dr Constantinou on. It is very timely for me personally. I'm a member of St Justin Martyr Eastern Orthodox Church in Jacksonville Florida but I attend a weekly men's bible study at St John of the divine revelation Orthodox Church also in jacksonville. We are shortly to begin on a book by Father Tom Hopko
Excessively profound and simultaneously simple. Thank you very much for this!
This is gonna be a good one
I couldn’t help but feel a little jealous that you got to meet and interview dr. Constantinou! I watched the interview 2x! Listening to her I understand better what our Lord said: “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.”
Thank you again for this interview 🙏
Hi Austin! Thank you for your channel. I do appreciated it. The Lord is leading me to Orthodox faith.. God bless your ministry. From Philippines.
Wow incredible discussion! Both of you did a wonderful job
Another great interview!
Thanks!
This was a pleasure to listen to; I love Dr. Contantinou's zeal. It's easy to see how she loves the heights and depths of Orthodoxy and and has put her heart into learning so she can express it clearly--as she said, "Be obsessed!" We all should be in earnest, and never stop seeking, learning and growing in the most Holy Faith--not for head knowledge, but to know the exceeding riches given to us in Christ and through His Holy Church. God is so good to pour out great spiritual riches upon us, if only we truly desire it! Much more can be said, but this was a great summary!
I absolutely loved this love this video
Simply awesome!!!! Thankyou both!!
Such an illuminating discussion, thank you and God bless!
She comes off a bit brash but I think it's just because she's explained this topic so many times. Very informative and important. The phronema of the Father's is the reason I'm Orthodox. Not because of any theological stance
I felt a bit the same way but have to remind myself that some people simply communicate this way when their passionate about something. I too think she has explained this many times and this contributes. But as it went on I felt her soften up a bit when taking about the Lord and his goodness.
Direct and to the point is why I love her as an apologist. Orthodoxy is fact.
I believe she was assertive, nothing else.
It could be perceived that way, yes, but even as a Protestant, it didn’t bother me. I am finding this interview quite fascinating!
Really love what I’ve read from her book so far! Coming from a Protestant background, it’s been enlightening to gain a deeper understanding of the Orthodox mindset, even having been Orthodox for six years now.😬
Do you think she is unfair to the Western Tradition? She is right to emphasize the way of life and mystery passed down from the early church but she misrepresents the Catholic Church. Their tradition includes deep spirituality of mysticism and contemplation. She is right to reject any attempt to establish a completely rational basis for theology but the Catholic Church officially rejects this as well. She seems to paint with too broad a brush and speaks about things she knows nothing about. I find it hard to take her seriously when she misrepresents her opponents so badly. That’s called a straw man argument. She ought to “steel man” the Catholic point of view, interact with the best and most robust version of your opponent’s arguments. What she is doing seems lazy and untrustworthy. She says she appreciates Austin for encouraging honest and good faith discussions between Christians but she unfairly bashes Catholics without warrent. She lies about them and slanders them with blatant misinformation. So sad.
The Roman church "officially" rejects a lot of things that it has brought about for centuries. The issue isn't what you say you believe but how your beliefs influence the fruits of your faith. And we believe history speaks for itself in this regard.
@@MrStrawberryfields4 I understand that and accept that. But what are the fruits? Arrogant misrepresentations and libel? Endless schisms. Thinking the worst of others? Judging Orthodox as “liberal” or “ecumenist” for not adhering to a conspiracy theory of history?
Yea when I was Chrismated I was told it would take 10 years to become truly ORthodox. I was really insulted and put off. Now, looking back on the past 6 years, I'll be lucky if its 15!😇
@@frankherbert6476 Dr Jeanne is like the man who prayed, “Thank God I’m not like those other people.” She is so arrogant and she lies. If all she was doing was saying “I’m proud to be Orthodox. I believe it is true and here is what makes it different.” That would be fine. But she lies about the Catholic Church and protestants. She is right to emphasize the way of life and mindset and the mystery passed on by the early Church. But she is just wrong when she says that that Catholic Church doesn’t have these things and that they have a theological system built completely on human reason. Those are just bald faced lies and so easy to debunk that I’m surprised that she asserts them so boldly. That is why she is untrustworthy.
What she is doing is called strawmanning. She constructs the worst possible rendition of her opponents position, a flimsy argument that she can knock over with a tiny puff of wind. And it’s good for her that it is so easy to knock over because her own arguments are so vague and amorphous. Since she think that Orthodoxy is a kind of indescribable feeling she feels no need to actually say anything concrete. Consequently she says very little and is not convincing unless you are already a fan boy. Also, strawmanning is uncharitable and insulting.
What Christians should do is steel man. That means constructing the best form of your opponent’s argument and interact with that.
Dr Jeanne sounds rude, arrogant, and misinformed. At best. I believe that she is slanderously lying and that is why I don’t trust her.
I already had Dr. Constantinou's book on my reading list and definitely will be getting to it soon now. So many great points about how we approach and understand theology and Scripture to be aware of. If honestly seeking truth we need to be aware of these thought tendencies that we all have. Great stuff! God bless.
Wow, looking forward to listening. Have read much of her thesis (which later became a book) on the Apocalypse, it's a very comprehensive work.
Nice! She's brilliant
Interesting, can I find that online?
"I don't mean this to be offensive.."
... we're all *so* relieved!
Reminds me how the leftists get angry when you call a girl a girl and a boy, a boy... Can't please everyone.
I agree with her. Confession is the best part of your faith.
I learnt so much in this! Definately gonna get a hold of her book
Same here😙
I cannot tell you how much this helped me, she answered so many questions that I’ve had since I was very young. Thank you both so much!
I can't wait for your Baptism ... ☦️
Man, good work keeping up the poker face. You were sweating! She is an avalanche of Orthdooxy. This is how my dwindling set of non-Orthodox friends must feel when they make the mistake of asking me-or remotely bringing up-theology, God, or church. Haha. Not that I'm anywhere near her level except perhaps in word count.
She's an avalanche of baseless accusations with no evidence behind them. The early Church didn't teach the Papacy, didn't teach the Immaculate Conception, didn't teach Purgatory, she made those 3 baseless accusations and offered no evidence to back them up. I understand this was not the topic of the conversation but she can't just drop a bomb like that and think there's going to be no pushback. There is so much evidence for the Papacy and for the Immaculate Conception, and there is certainly evidence of Purgatory in the early Church as well. I can show you there is and she can't just say the early Church didn't teach that when they clearly did. Then she said many many other problematic positions that can't all be brought up but I will say the Orthodox are in SCHISM with each other so don't act like you're all in unity. Also if you Orthodox would like to watch a debate on the Immaculate Conception go watch the debate between William Albrecht and Father Ramsey. I don't mind her being passionate and having strong beliefs but please stop making blanket claims that you cannot back up. Church history does not permit the view she took in this dialouge.
Such a lovely guest to have on your show. God bless.
What a great interview!
Thanks!
God bless!
I love Dr Jeannie ! One of the few good ones left at AFR!
She's great!
Greatly enjoyed! Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
This is very good! Thank you!
"Protestant theology comes from the Catholic Church because it's a reaction against Catholicism." ~ YES!
Thank you, thank you, thank you…….beautiful!
By Father Thomas Hopko on Advent and the nativity which in Orthodoxy in many times is referred to as the Winter Pascha. When we finish that we will begin Dr Constantinou's book!! I cannot miss this opportunity without further thanking you for your CZcams channel. Your method of interview which is simply to ask a few questions and then let your guests speak it's just fantastic. And I'm not talking about just your Eastern Orthodox guests. It does not matter who your guest is I learned so much more by listening to them on your channel then I think I would on any other. Besides you have such a variety of guests and variety of topics. God bless you and grant you many years!!!
Excellent interview! I was already reading "Thinking Orthodox" and almost everything Dr. Constaninou has to say confirms my joy that God led me to the Orthodox Church.
Austin your channel is great! You have to interview Father David Hanna of St. Mary’s Coptic Orthodox Church in Chicago! He’s wonderful and I think it will give your viewers a glimpse into the Oriental Orthodox Tradition specifically the Coptic Orthodox Church. Thank you!
This is exactly what I've been thinking. The overall paradigm of the Church is equally important to its individual teachings and practices.
Superb interview and Dr Constantinou is excellent. Very clear, very passionate and very persuasive.
Dr . Jeanne is a great blessing . Her immense knowledge , experience and open hearted spirit will allow her to be impactful to all .
We need spiritual unity and I think God rip use Dr .Jeanne to help unite our splintered Christian faithful . Imagine how much spiritual unity will illumine the world . She’s a great spokesperson for truth . May those that have ears let them hear . Axia! Most worthy !
Wonderful interview, thank you. If you could land an interview with elder Zacharias of Essex, that would be awesome.
Presvytera is a treasure.
Wow what a great discussion ❤❤ ❤
This is like a beautiful elaboration of Evagrius Ponticus explaining what prayer is as the exclusion of thoughts, concepts.
Thank you Austin. A group I attend is reading “misreading scripture through western eyes”. We are still early into it but it seems to have some common features mentioned by your guest.
It I need to develop a bit of a better appreciation of the early church Fathers.
I've heard great things about that book
I read that book a few years ago, it is very thought provoking, definitely worth reading! Enjoy!
I need better compliments that "Excellent!", "You the man!" or "You're killing it Austin!". I'm about out of new expressions of approval and delight.
Haha, I appreciate the support Isaiah
Great questions man. I enjoy conversations that tease out the nuances of a particular subject or idea. Not only is it enlightening to the viewer, but also for the guest. When you asked about the mind set of fronima as being amorphic in the the mind of a 1st timer, the guest eyes really lit up. Almost like she has not contemplated that point of view before. Excellent job!
Excellent episode!
Oh, I was hoping you would interview her! She's great!
She is indeed!
I don’t think Catholics or Protestants think you can ever approach defining everything about God. Both have a great sense of mystery about God. I think she overstates this idea quite a bit.
You deserve subscription for this interview.
"HOLY" Simplicity! I Love that .... Thank you for sharing!
Love Austin's program and hosting style. Impressive knowledge base!
He handled his guest with ease and never lost command of the discussion. A perfect Orthodox gentleman!
I really enjoyed this conversation, however as a Lutheran I believe she painted the protestant camp with a very wide brush. Lutherans are extremely comfortable with mystery and paradoxes that are presented in the bible. We have our systematic theology but also can see what happens during the Eucharist as a wonderful mystery.
I haven’t watched the video yet but she explains in her book that she does, as you said, “paint the Protestant camp with a very wide brush,” and she makes an apology in the beginning of the book. When speaking about Protestant faith traditions, it can be difficult. We are Orthodox and send our daughter to Christian Classical school and Lutherans such as yourself are not reformed enough for some people at the school lol.
@@MrCoachdunham thank you for that clarification!
That’s because there are tens of thousands of Protestant denominations …how can she cover them all? But yes, she’s absolutely right (as someone who was ex protestant) she covers the basics of what most of them think and believe.
Of course, there are some Protestants or evangelicals that are more about mystery and less rational. (Ie. Pentecostals, charismatics) But not in the same way as Orthodox are, by a long shot. Also, EO know how to balance it correctly, because we only do what the early church did. Lutheranism, although they hold some similarities, is no where near what Orthodoxy is. We have many ex Lutheran priests who are Orthodox priests now.
Pentecostals/Charismatics ALSO rely on mystery and "mystical" experiences... in some ways more than the pietistic Lutherans (what I understand to be the most mystery-friendly variety of Lutherans). That doesn't mean that there is much in common (or even "this" in common), even in terms of definitions. Also, there are many streams of rationalistic Lutherans (eg LCWS), humanistic and/or counter-rationalistic Lutherans (ELCA), etc. Even within the denomination that I perceive to be the best (LCMS and some of its international concordant partners), there is quite a variety from parish to parish.
I forgot to identify myself... almost 30 years Orthodox, before which I was an Evangelical and Reformed pastor, missionary, and seminary professor.
God bless you, Austin. 🙏❤️☦️
Wonderful! Amazing! ❤❤❤
I would love to see you interview Jonathan Jackson..
Thank you for this video. Orthodoxy is sweet and true! We love Catena app ❤
Great stuff
Rad! Great episode
I'll share a thought from my personal experience within Baptist/Non-denominational circles within America. I agree with Dr. Constantinou that rational thought and the desire to prove beliefs from the text/history does exist in part, particularly in the pastorate and places of high learning. However it certainly seems that the average churchgoer is not leaning on the rational arguments nor are they even aware of many denominational distinctives. They come for the experience, they come looking for community worship, and they come looking for guidance in their day-to-day. My assumption is that the typical Orthodox and Catholic believers are doing the same. I can see where she is coming from in critiquing the direction that leaders within Protestant and Catholic churches have gone, but it seems to me most of Christendom is made up of people not asking "Why should I believe", but rather "What should I do now that I believe". Folks listening to this channel (self-included) who are interested in the distinctions and the history and the "Why" are in the minority. I will say that my perspective is terribly limited and my education is sadly relegated to the interwebs and a few books, but the mindset of accepting the teaching of our local church with the goal of loving our neighbors and thereby demonstrating our love and appreciation to God is, in part, what binds the universal church, and isn't that the "Phronema" described?
This is so beautiful. 100% agree. I'm starting to feel like a broken record saying this but the thing with this topic is it is extremely niche. This is intended for the ears of orthodox people, particularly in the US where we are so small, who dont understand the uniqueness of our own tradition. (And it is extremely helpful for that, thank God for Dr. Constantinou!) In time, we'll be able to explain it (and more importantly live it) in ways that dont offend the ears of our western christian brothers and sisters. Blessings🙂
From what I heard... Phronema is also a word that my mother used to yell at me when i was young. "Katse Phronema!" she would yell, and in that context, it means "SIT STILL and Correctly" (with foreshadowing of pain as she pointed at her wooden spoon) That is what it means to be an Orthodox Christian... without the wooden spoon of course. We sit still, and correctly according to Christ's and the Church Father's teachings. We don't move quickly because that's how mistakes happen. Phronema also requires and understanding of context and knowledge of how life was in the days of Christ. The Orthodox Church uses the same liturgy as we did in the 4th century, and sometimes earlier, as they use different ones throughout the year. Understanding people from the founding of America is sometimes difficult and that was only 245 years ago. They had a different language, different thought process and different way of life. Yes, Christ is the center of all our Churches and Denominations... but according to the New Testament and the Holy Fathers... if interpreted incorrectly, you may end up at the wrong location. And if the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit all act as one... how can we explain the 40,000 denominations that were created because people claim that the Holy Spirit led them to start a new Church? Does it look like the Original Church? The Original Church was Liturgical.
We all have a job to do, and that is to find the true Church. Most believe that they've found it, but some don't realize that there are 40,000 other roads. Orthodoxy does not believe that everyone gets saved and we don't believe only Orthodox will be saved either. Christ alone will judge us all, and I would rather live a strict life that follows the ancient Church because that is where the experts were. Read Matthew 25:31-46. I'm not a theologian or clergy... just adding my opinion. God bless!
In a sense, yes I think so. However, an example of this being more on the “not exactly” side would be for example, some Protestant churches who have sort of veered so far off in their own direction that they are teaching things that are very dangerous to Christians and have roots in the occult, but most don’t realize that because they never spent time in the occult. Whereas, Orthodoxy has taken such pains to preserve its traditions and “phronema” over time that it is very difficult for it to veer off course in such a drastic manner and mislead its people, and is really the closest to what was taught by Christ that exists…. For me I find more spiritual protection in that than the more watered down and often “veering” ship that can be Protestantism at times.
Somehow I am attracted to the Orthodox Church because it make sense. And the mysticism the same time. I really like that Orthodoxy admit that not everything can be explained. I do feel a little bit lost in the liturgy coming from a protestant evangelical background, but I have come to appreciate the icons more than I used to. There is a wisdom as well in a way I haven't seen in the western church.
I appreciate her passion and insistence on the matter.