Mirrorless hasn't made me a better photographer but it has certainly made life easier as someone who photographs a lot of running dogs and pet portraits.
@SoundSpeeding autofocus is far better than any DSLR. I was a nikon shooter before switching shot the D850 for over 2 years. It was a great a camera but it still missed action shots. Particularly dogs running towards the camera
@@antwilk1981 My Pentax K-3 iii tracks my hyperactive sprocker spaniel running towards the camera just fine. I was amazed. As a long time Pentax devotee I was used to less than par autofocus. It probably isn't as good as the latest mirrorless offerings, but I get a very high keeper rate, and most bad shots are down to me, and the fact that I am using a rather old lens.
I was shooting weddings when I bought my R6 and I really only got it for one reason - the af just made my life easier. I will absolutely pay money to make my life easier. Before I bought it I was definitely getting the shots I needed, but the upgraded tracking convenience and not having to worry about focus plane shifting when I focused and recomposed on my 5D Mark III just made me happy. I don't shoot weddings anymore - I've been working on getting into commercial work. The focus just makes my life easier. I can still get the job done with my 5D mark III (I still have it). I had my R6 stop functioning during a project. I just popped out the 5D and got what I needed, no problem. Now RF glass...I'm not paying for any of that. All of my lenses are adapted EF glass. 😂
Moving from an 80d to a Sony A7iii was the best decision I ever made. No more taking 4 shots to hopefully get one that was focused. My adapted EF glass focused better and more reliably on the A7iii than the 80D lol. Honestly, I use my A7IV with my primary lens because I know the hit rate is higher, nothing else.
Just love your no-bullshit honesty, and massive hands-on common sense! And, rightfully, kicking back at the prevailing CZcams-proliferating propaganda/techno-snobbery that is impossible to avoid now: this imperative to buy the latest mirrorless/full-frame camera... and loving your wonderful line:"What did we all do before?" What kind of cameras gave us all the glorious photo legacy of the last 180 years? Having shot pictures since a boy sixty years ago - moving through Kodaks, to Halina, to Practica (my first SLR), to a Nikkormat (Nikon lenses... big in the sixties)... to my present Nikon DSLR, it's been fun, and I've taken loads of good pictures. And now, am still learning all the quirks of my Nikon D500, I am being made to feel I'm missing out by not buying the latest Canon, or Sony! God, the online pressure! But, sure, with one of these, will I actually be a better photographer? No, I'll be the same guy - quite good, and using my camera as a tool, to take great pictures. That's all... Scott, you're fab! Keep on kicking at all the widespread photo crap that we unavoidably suffer!
Thank you for providing rational and toughtful content on professional photography. Lots of photography accounts spreading FOMO with their upgrade cycles or videos on "switching". All without ever really discussing the cost and the viability of these upgrades. I really appreciate your perspective, and see I'm not the only one. Keep up the good work and stay yourself. Cheers Scott !
Nothing left to be said. As a German, I don't know the meaning of FOMO, I'll have to look it up afterwards but guess it is about catching as much views as possible 😮
There is nothing FOMO about Mirrorless. Mirrorless cameras have revolutionized the camera industry again. With the way you are thinking, you are in the same category as Blockbuster, ex-ceo Steve Ballmer and Kodak. Sony is in the same league as Apple, Tesla and Samsung. Sony is pushing the boundaries and limits to reach new heights. Mirrorless technology have made cameras so much better than ever before. But people like you are the reasons why Canon and Nikon stuck around with their DSLR instead of innovating. Sony forced them to invest heavily into Mirrorless back in 2017 because if they didn't, we be stuck with DSLR for another 10 years. We all already know the cost of upgrading to a new camera. Canon, Nikon and Sony wouldn't just make these Mirrorless cameras a niches. They are revolutionary and have advanced photography again. My skills as a photographer have already exceeded what a DSLR camera can do. A Mirrorless camera allows my skills to become even better. And since you think Mirrorless is FOMO, stop using your smartphone and go back to using a flip phone. I bet you posted here with your smartphone while watching this youtube video. It's always DSLR users coming up with dumb excuses on why they think Mirrorless is overrated. They are the same people that thinks like Blockbuster, Kodak, Blackberry, Nintendo, etc.
@@harryvuemedia5106 Hey Harry, thanks for the comment. I did not state mirrorless is fueling FOMO, and in fact - I have a mirrorless camera as well as an older DSLR. However, what I have stated and hold to is - upgrading because of some new technological features in a camera is a personal choice. You should think about it - does it make sense for you and your business? That was my criticism and the source for kudos to Scott. You will not be "left behind" or seen as unprofessional if you don't have the newest gear. Whatever some youtuber says. My gripe with youtubers is that they often switch systems like Fujifilm->Leica, Nikon->Sony,.. and make a big deal out of it. The only reason for making all of these big claims is more viewership to their channel. While giving users FOMO about not owning let's say a new Canon, Sony or a Leica. If you can make great images with a A7III, you don't need neccessarily need the A9III's global shutter. But youtubers will be still be making videos about it a few months from now saying it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. It may very well be. But after the A9III comes the A9IV, with even more stuff and features, just maybe 2 years from now. If you don't need that, there is no point spending the money. I think that as photographers (pro or otherwise) we need to see that the gear serves us, and not the other way around. If Scott can do everything with a 5DSR and EF lenses, more power to him. Just because RF glass exists and an R3 is a cool camera does not mean he should be compelled to spend a big amount of money right now. He could use that money in a better way today, and upgrade when it makes sense to him. One more thing - I did not get your arguement how people liking Blockbuster rentals or Kodak film affected people that want Netflix or Digital cameras. DSLR enjoyers don't hurt anyone owning a mirrorless camera. There are still professionals using film and DSLR's, yet they are not responsible for lack of innovation from camera manufactures for that reason. Anyway, wish you the best of luck with photography - cheers !
Mirrorless hasn’t changed my photos, but its increased my keeper rate x10. Plus the upgraded sensors with ridiculous highlight recovery / shadow recovery is crazy. I have shot with every 5D; classic through 5DIV. I now shoot on R5’s and a M11. The R5 has been the biggest upgrade I’ve ever undertaken.
YES.. I am curious... show me your camera gear... even what you dont use nowadays.. and if you have time tell us the live story of the gear, how it started and how it ended before you moved to your next toy. It would be interesting indeed....
I always appreciate the distinction you draw between shooting for a job and shooting for a hobby. I don't really shoot professionally anymore, but the part of my job I did for money can still be done with old gear. The gear collecting is just a hobby. The fancy new stuff is mostly about fun, speed, and convenience, and gaining access to more lens options since mirrorless is so adaptable.
Two things that really made me go mirrorless; full sensor focus points from edge to edge, and no more misaligned lenses causing missed focus. My 5DM4 is right on everytime I use live view focus, but sometimes back or front focuses using the OVF. All the mirrorless cameras will also nail focus every time because like with live view the focus is on the sensor and isnt decoupled to a seperate metering and focus system. At least thats how I understand it.
Excellent point, same conclusion I came to recently, avoiding the camera manufacturers "market speak" to keep selling the most newest expensive equipment to keep them in businesses while actually ruining the art of photography.😢
Scott, I did a two day campaign for Coca Cola, chasing models around urban areas with my Canon 5D mk3 back in 2018. Available light, quick scenarios, etc and when I downloaded the images my sharp images to unsharp was 1:2. I brought my Canon gear who I had been with for 20 years along with my Pentax 645z equipment to my local and traded them in for Sony mirrorless. It was a total game changer for my style of photography, where quick moving subjects, need to be in focus. So if I could get a Canon DSLR that had 93% viewfinder AF coverage and it was as quick as the Sony's I would have stayed. I don't look back at the cameras I have owned and feel sentimental; they are tools and if they can't do what I need them to do, then I move on to the next ones that can. You need to start up a hire company, go buy a used Phase One system and rent it back to yourself for your shoots, then you'll have the best of both worlds.
I think that's often true. I make purchases for three reasons: Will it save time? Will it improve the photos? Will it make me more money? After doing photography for 24 years, switching to mirrorless hit all three marks... But, BIG BUT, I think it depend on what you photograph for a living. If you're doing general portraits, you might have a few more useable photos, so probably not worth it... Studio product photos, definitely not worth switching. For me doing weddings & dogs, it was night & day. Less stress, better/more shots to choose from, less time to get the shots &, less time editing. PS What's funny is, I switched to mirrorless for fun & love of the gear. I didn't think it would make a difference in profit or workflow. Man, was I wrong
I agree with mostly everyting you said but you also need to consider if the gear you want (or might even claim you -need-) to buy makes your job easier or more efficient. Coming from someone who also used to shoot weddings and owns the same 5Ds camera now. I would never use this camera for weddings today. It is much slower to focus, much worse at low light, and much heavier and bulkier. And yes, I and others in the past used to shoot weddings with 5D mark ii's and even 6Ds, so? We also used to ride horses and you could probably haul a bunch of gear today with a horse and a wagon. But why make your job and life needlessly more difficult? You have a pretty expensive studio camera stand in the background. I am sure you can do as much with a tripod and jerry-rigging a camera to a c-stand if you need to get close or at a weird angle. But you have the stand, not because it makes you $5k more, because it makes your job more efficient. Not saying the 5Ds is bad, it is great for studio work. I use it for studio work. But for the specific example of wedding photography that you mentioned, you dismissed the other factors in gear purchase decision that are also important. Does having a proper tethering station make me $1k more? God knows, but it is much safer and convenient than setting up a laptop on top of apple boxes. I guess what I'm saying is that the formula isn't as simple as: does this $5K purchase make me $5K more? sometimes the value of things is more implicit and nuanced.
@@mdhazeldine Exactly. Time is money. I may only save an hour here & there per shoot switching to mirrorless, but at the end of the year or added up to a couple hundred hires saved at least
I made an informed decision a couple of years ago to leave my beloved Olympus 4/3's system for the Nikon Z system. The decision wasn't easy for me. Honestly I am between being a hobbyist and a income producing pro. Then I spent a year building my kit, with pitfalls on purchasing and now pretty much own what I WANT to do the JOB. Just as I finished my buying "spree" along comes your channel (well when I found your channel)! And it has allowed me to be better informed about my buying habits and I have drastically dropped my spending on gear that I WANT! I have all the gear I NEED to do the job I do. But you have really helped me in evaluating my goals. Your videos have really helped me. Oh, I am portrait and model photographer on a small scale.
Good video. Cameras have morphed into computers and they "need" to be upgraded regularly because otherwise the software/firmware updated creates a problem. It's planned obsolescence. Would love to see you camera collection!!
Two supporting points - I used to shoot sports and news for a living using film and manual focus glass. It is of course possible. Also, many wedding and event photographers I know will tell you - for the really important, CANNOT miss shots - they switch out of subject tracking and go right to single point. Canon, Sony, Nikon - doesn’t matter - they know when and when not to lean on tracking features. All that said, yes I love my mirrorless system and it does absolutely get out my way so I can create better / easier / faster. Modern tech is magic. But all your points here are absolutely valid 👍🏻
Have to disagree here, mirrorless has been a game changer for me mainly down to being able to shoot from the hip more inconspicuously and no more chimping. The face autofocus is also great when shooting a single person but don’t rate it otherwise. Has it made me more money? Possibly, hard to say, I can see a difference in my work which may or may not translate to more / better clients. The colours that come out of my mirrorless are also way nicer than my 5Diii. Completely understand why it wouldn’t make financial sense for you Scott but you work in a very controlled environment where your camera is essentially a sensor.
Agree with all your comments spot on a good photographer never blames his tools as you learn to adapt. Good photographers will take great shots regardless of what camera. Love the comments with all the autofocus hahaha classic couple years back they would have told you their previous camera was a must and made their life so much easier too....keep up the great work and keeping ìt real👍
I did weddings and events on a 5D Mk II, great camera and I still have it. I didn't upgrade to the iii, or the IV, but kept at it with the mk II. Now, doing landscape mostly for my own pleasure, I got the R5, and expect it may outlive me ;-) Coupled with cheaper 2nd-hand EF glass, I know it is all down to me now, with absolutely no excuse about equipment!
@@amermeleitor Excellently! And if you use the (*far* too expensive) Canon adaptor with a polariser, you have the one polariser that works with every lens.
... coming back to this post from the future to ask, "Did you foresee you outgrowing the need for backup cameras...thus freeing yourself to explore the luxury of dropping all your canon bodies in trade for the newest upgrade?" I love your channel and your raw truth. This is completely consistent with your logic. Genuine. Inspirational.
Great advice!. I used Canon 5D's for years to shoot weddings and actually still have some as back ups. 5D's are amazing cameras, would definitely recommend them to anyone getting into wedding photography... but as a "professional" that shoots around 40 weddings a year, I would say the money I spent on the R6 was just about worth it. Maybe not 100% necessary, but I do think it makes my life a lot easier in various ways and I know people are happy to pay for things that make life easier. Also after shooting hundreds of weddings its nice to have a new toy. They get pretty boring after a while :)
What we did before R5 R6 and mirrorless? We crawled in mud to get low angle shot and hoped that AF will focus on eyes. We Sprayed and prayed from high angle and honestly it's not about a money. Will it make me more money - may be not. But it surely helped me to make the same amount So Much Easier. How much that worth for an event photographer? My experience and fellow photographers around me - it's enough to switch. And we never looked back for sweet times when you were glued to viewfinder or crippled by AF live view on DSRL. It's like Leica vs film 1D - and same arguments - H Cartie-Bresson did not use motor winding and af - so what? He did use latest and fastest camera for him and now he maybe used Fuji or iPhones. But if you shoot sport events people - switch, it's worth it like M-chip Mac vs Intel - fast, easy, convenient, reliable. And completely 100% silent for theater work.
You hit on something I completely understand. I'm a hobbyist. I love photography, and I also love the gear (except lighting). I currently use an old Canon 5D Mk III, but I want to move to mirrorless. I don't need it. I have been happy with my DSLR. I want it, though, because I want the higher resolution I can get with the new mirrorless cameras. I am a member of a running club and like to shoot running races. Higher resolution will give me better ability to crop my images to pick my friends out of a crowd and still get a good result that makes them stand out. I won't move to an R5, though. I don't have that much money for a hobby. I'll probably pick up a used EOS R next year. But I fully understand everything you're saying. In business, your decisions have to be about what makes you more money.
@@lemnisgate8809 That's what I'm thinking. That's why I said I'll start with a used EOS R. I use the LED on the top of my 5D too much to move to something without that, so I won't start with the RP.
Those are good arguments but honestly it depends on what you shoot and in your case shooting in a studio with controlled lighting and repeatable shots it doesn't really matter. I do the occasional wedding for extra side income and the last wedding I shot had beautiful natural lighting coming in through the windows that I was able to get some amazing shots of with my alpha 1 that my old 5D MKII would have struggled with immensely. It's those shots that get me referred to other couples and yes, that makes me more money. I hit my ROI technically in 1 1/2 weddings and have a solid return schedule over the next 3 years capping my 5 year net ROI at $210,000 on a $6500 investment. That's just assuming I sell and reinvest at the 5 year mark and only accounts for the wedding side hustle not my other photo/video gigs! It's definitely making me more money!
I'm a in the field event photographer. Ironically, I decided to trade in my 5D Mark III for a 5D Mark IV and also incorporated an R6 into my gear. As an event photographer, shutter noise was never a concern for concerts and commercial events. However, in the world of performance art and public speaking, the mirrorless camera has become a lifesaver. Yet, the banding issue tends to rear its ugly head if I'm not meticulous with my shutter speed and other settings. It turns out, the mirrorless isn't as forgiving in certain situations. I'm now looking at adding a 1dx II to 1dx III. Heck I might even grab a 1dx as a third bodynjust because they are cheap nowdays.
Interesting point on the hobbyist vs professional. As a hobbyist, I had a 5DmkII and would head out on weekends to shoot cars, my dogs and maybe a bit of wildlife. I felt I had to shoot on the lowest shutter speed possible and the widest aperture. I found the focus wasn't spot on for moving subjects a lot of the time, or the picture wasn't crisp from too low shutter speed, or the ISO graining was too much for my liking. But I would get a handful of crisp and clear photos with perfect focus, and that was good enough for me. But I went out with a friend and their dog in a summer evening, and was taking pictures as our dogs played together under the most beautiful sunset. I got home and none of the pictures were fully focused correctly. I was then out at a local nature reserve and came across a kingfisher briefly... again, came home and the focus was missed. It was at this point I decided to make the jump to mirrorless and have not regretted it one bit, despite being bloody expensive. I no longer have to worry about missed focus or low ISO, so it has given me more freedom to compose and get creative, while knowing I'll be capturing the moments without worry.
I 100% agree with the sentiment. It's not worth upgrading as a pro unless there's a business benefit. I disagree that there is no business benefit to mirrorless cameras, but that's mostly because of the type of work I do. Silent shutter on mirrorless cameras is expected by many event clients. The photos aren't any better, but there are definitely clients who would stop hiring me if I didn't have a silent camera.
Interesting - totally get this! For me, when I came to replace my Nikon D750s the Sony A7Riii was around the same price as the Nikon D850... so I opted for the Sony. Made sense to have those quality of life updates (electronic viewfinder etc), but also offered meaningfully better video quality, so I could start offering that. Wait did I just prove your point
Would you be able to shoot your work quicker? Not just fps, but like focus stacking and pixel shift in camera? I think there are a more reasons why mirrorless is replacing DSLR's. Its not just skill, but time is money right? We shoot a lot of add campaign's with children and people, and having the latest greatest autofocus system really makes a difference. We can get a better result in less time. Yes we held off on the whole mirrorless for a long time as well, but when we finally did make the jump to the Nikon Z9 we're able to get the same results quicker. We still use the same lenses, but we have to do less retakes because off the eye autofocus . If we save like an hour on a 10 hour shoot with a full crew, it probably payed itself in less then a month. Maybe the mirrorless camera's don't provide any advantages for you, but I think for many shooting people, mirrorless does have it benefits.
Biggest change for me was the size, which helps for airline travel. Lighting is still a bit large, though much improved over years ago. No weddings, just advertising and corporate projects. So I probably have 1/3rd less weight with mirrorless.
That's a great idea for a niche market ❤ I think you're about to get even more business soon, because people love authentic/retro, and with all the advances in AI I think people will start to gravitate toward film even more. And you'll probably be able to charge more as a "premium" high end photographer too!
I would have one argument here. As you mentioned in a previous video. Filming/stop motion/short clips are basically required on most jobs these days. New cameras allow for photos and video at 4k60fps. So my argument being is if you are shooting photos and video then a business use case can be made to pick up a relatively newish camera, that does both. In stead of two cameras one for video and one for photos.
What is so sad, is that too many amateurs are taken in by all the marketing hype around equipment, when their primary focus should be on the results. And then they wonder why their 'product' isn't selling. It's all about the results.
The two reasons you should buy a mirrorless is silent shutter, no noise, and the refresh of images in the eyepiece so you know if you got exposure easily. last week I got good images with both
I moved to mirrorless at the start of Micro 4/3 because for my freelance fishing sports photography they had compact bodies and best selection of water-resistant bodies & lenses ( still true today!). Battery life sucked initially but it now very good. Prices were in the middle of the market so not an over-the-top investment. Current workhorse for me is an Olympus E-M1 Mkii and a pair of Pro zoom lenses that cover 35mm equivalent of 24mm-80mm and 80 -300mm at f2.8. All are about 7 years old and outlasted any previous camera & lenses from C or N. Plus can do in-camera focus stacking and 50MP high resolution. Main plus for DSLRs was battery life, but their physical size (harder to carry when climbing rocks or wading in surf) and prices for the water-resistant construction was the killer for me and mirrorless was a God send in terms of size, performance and price. I try to follow the dictum of "if ain't broke don't replace it"!
If you wanna feel good about these old 5D's just look up reviews when it came out. People were gushing over it and it's never gotten any worse. It's still a highly capable image making machine
Thanks Scott for the very insightful opinion! You are the man. So I walked into the camera store and there was a huge poster on the wall that said, “your wife called, she said go ahead and buy it”. lol.
After 12 years with a 5DII, then a 5DIII, I switched to the R6 in August 2021. The mirrorless auto-focus has truly been a game changer. Studio shoots now, unbelievably, have zero missed focus shots. Hand-held low shutter speed shots (1/60) with an EF 200mm telephoto are now pretty much all in focus with the assistance of the R6s in-body stabilisation. Just 2 of many noticeable improvements. But the biggest transformation has been videography. Can honestly say the increased income from videography work alone has totally justified switching to mirrorless, so much so that a year later we added the R6II to our setup. These two cameras are absolute workhorses, shooting stills or video. Having said all that, I really enjoyed your explanation and rationale. It's a good discussion and just shows how we all can enjoy the same passion with different approaches. I still have my 5Ds and can't bear to let them go yet, they've been amazing cameras to me. Thanks so much for making this video.
Hi Scott, I agree with you that from a business perspective you shouldn't spend more than you need. But from a wider photography perspective if nobody purchased new equipment where would the secondhand market be? It would be like recent times where lots of people were chasing the few decent film cameras and pushing the prices up. You need lots of hobbyists to buy into the Fuji GFX system so that in a few years time the secondhand market for them will be dirt cheap.
Morning Scott, at a wedding mirrorless gives you massively more confidence of getting the shot. The Fuji's are extremely quiet even without using the silent shutter, they are small and unobtrusive and with the flip out screen mean that you aren't screaming "I'm taking a photo of you" which is important when working closely. The lenses are cheaper than most full frame equivalents and lighter. My hands still ache after 12 hours but I don't have carpel tunnel. They aren't the best with flash - especially off camera dance floor but an old Nikon crop sensor on fully manual fixes that for me. I can't imagine taking 4,000 images on one day on a DSLR (yes I sequence). And I can pick up another used x-t3 for £800 😊
Your logic is totally sound, however, the R5 is not the only mirrorless camera. There are other considerably less expensive options geared toward different use cases. For me, switching to mirrorless didn't directly result in booking more work, but... there were indirect savings that did result in either more money in my pocket, or more free time that I could apply to paid work if I wanted to. For example, having the face and eye autofocus coupled with having a viewfinder that shows what the actual image will look like (when shooting with available light) means less shots taken, which translates into less money spent on storage, and less time culling photos, and even more importantly, shorter session times, which does free up time to book more work if I wanted to. Additionally, this is less of a mirrorless thing, and more of a newer technology thing, but the newer cameras generally bring faster and more trouble free tethering, which again, translates into less time spent. Having really good mirrorless autofocus has translated into the camera just getting out of the way and allowing me to spend nearly all of my concentration on working with the subject to get the best out of them, which translates into even shorter session times, and even less shots taken because nearly all of them are keepers. For the type of work I do, my complete camera kit (including lenses) is less than $2000 new per copy, and in money saved on storage alone since switching to mirrorless about 5 years ago, it's been totally paid for, and I have considerably faster and more streamlined sessions where I take considerably less shots, and I have my subject in and out and have delivered images way faster and can move on to the next thing. If all I was willing to buy was the R5 could I make the same case? Not really, though I'd still be taking less shots and having shorter session times, the money saved on storage wouldn't quite make up for the cost of that particular camera.
For me, Only upgrade a camera if the image quality is noticeably improved. Nothing else matters. Yes please get your hobby film cameras out,. love to see them.
I don't need it, but it is a lot of nice to haves, and if it is more fun for me to use, and it makes me more eager to go out and shoot as a landscape/wildlife photographer, and more motivated, it gets me better pictures, and as a result, it helps pay back for the camera. I agree with the business side of things - but sometimes, it is okay to treat yourself (or your employees) to something too. It is hard to quantify the 'it is more fun and makes me more happy to do what I do' in a pure financial discussion, but you mustn't underestimate the impact that has. This is the same with things like employee activities. You cannot quantify 'how long will taking my staff out to lunch and an afternoon activity take to pay itself back'. But at the same time, it could be that those kind of activities are what allows you to attract the best talent, and that could, in the end, make you a lot of money.
Ok, I see your point. You are in studios, I’m not. It’s a different circumstance than I have. I do both photo and video. I need maximum DR on location with mixed lighting for photos. I have one R5 can do all the jobs I get. For me it’s more economical. I have the R for back up. I have had many of Canon dslrs the 5Ds and two 1Ds, they where great at that time. If there is tech to help me work faster, less post work, I’ll use that and get rid of the old that are less effective. Effective tools is what I want. I like the look I get out from Canon R line up with Profoto and Capture One, I get a look that can be my style.
I am quite happy with my Canon Eeos DLSR. I am keeping camera, lenses, and adding the newest Eos so I can have Video too. I saw a mirrorless at my daughter's wedding. I spoke with the photographer and commented about how quiet it was. I am old school with decades of experience. I want everyone to hear my cameras. Years ago, I worked for a studio and did lots of weddings. Had 2 1/4 square Hasselblad and 2 1/4 x 2 3/4 RB67 Mamiya that could change between Landscape and Portrait quickly and easily. I used my SLR 35mm for backup. Before that, at University, I studied photography and had access to a 4 x 5 Calumet Studio View Camera. Did all my own B/W Film and Prints. Yes, size really does matter.
Well yes. But I shoot Billboard Campaigns during TV commercial productions. My time slots are between 10 and 20 minutes sometimes even less. Because they are always behind schedule. I shoot people, they move around sometimes more sometimes less. Before, there was not that much of a pressure or at least a little more time or less content to be produced. these days they are trying to do more and more scenes in one day and want to do the photo campaign as well bc it saves them money bc of crew, talents, locations etc. The more shots are in focus in those 10 min (with light setup sometimes) the better - there are more pictures to choose from at the end and the client is happy. When I shoot with the R5 bc the resolution is not so crucial, I don't even need to check if the focus hit or not. It's really just that good. With my Fuji GFX 100 II it's getting better but there are still moments where 'the picture' is sometimes out of focus. I did shoot a lot of film 35mm, 6x7, 6x6, 6x9, 4x5. But when your photos are out of focus with the R5 I think you should work on your skills. I get the approach that jobs are business. But when I get my GFX out of the case I'm happy like a little child on christmas eve bc the camera feels good, looks good and does a great job overall. the canon R5 is just simply a tool, no passion or butterflies in my stomach here. I like working with tools I like. The more I like to use it, the more test shoots I do. The more motivated I'am. And I didn't have that with any canon cameras I used. I had that with film cameras. The R5 is just a tool, but the fuji comes pretty close to that feeling now. Also the GFX 50R, just a wonderful camera for test shoots. Even as a professional, after working in this field for a while now, it is important to like and feel the tools you are working with. Also for still life, the fuji cameras do meet all your demands already. What else you need from that camera? Besides leaf shutter lenses maybe. but there is also a work around. I bet no client sees the difference when you use a Fuji or phase one. But your business will feel it when you compare the price. So yes I don't get more paid by using a more expensive camera. But my output is better with a more expensive camera. Not even speaking about the aspect ratio you are shooting with when using medium format. Sure you can crop in later but the result is different and tbh it's just not sexy. My style changed since I use medium format also bc you have to think more while shooting. Anyway even as a professional, you should get some joy out of what you are working with. If you don't have the budget/jobs for a GFX or hasselblad, don't buy it. Phase one is the one camera most people need the least I think, especially for that price. Unless you shoot car campaigns or archival repros from paintings at the museum. Last but not least, when calling yourself pro and charging premium amounts of money, I do wan't to deliver state of the art output and as many sharp images as possible, that's part of being pro. Of course this is not what is needed on every single job and also of course there is no need to go for every upgrade cycle, I guess you need to evaluate rationally if it makes your job any easier or just costs you. Anyway, I like your videos and that's just my opinion haha. Cheers!
Well said, use the right camera for the job you need it for. Using a Canon 1DS to shoot high frame rate sport.. no, buffer would run out too quickly. Use it for studio, perfect. You can pick up amazing cameras second hand but people love buying the latest and greatest.
Just came across your channel recently. I have no real interest in becoming a professional photographer but I've gotta say i like your videos and thoughts and views on pro photography cause they just make sense. Im a hobbiest guy and whatever I do Buy in photography gear is purely for my own enjoyment. A lot of what you say makes sense for a hobby guy also...although occasionally...would we do buy something that it doesn't make financial sense. For the amount of time and money that I have available to enjoy my hobby it never made sense for me to go out and buy the latest and greatest new gear even though I must admit I have had lust in my heart when reading about new equipment. If I'm looking for a certain particular lens....ill wait and wait and wait until I find a crazy good deal used. Ahhhhh... If I ever come across a phase one at a flea market.....oooohhhh....lol Keep rockin the channel!
Well said. I am sticking to my DLSRs until I must move on because of the lack of options or if the business requires, but I am not changing because because I want too. Wise words, its the business case versus personal enjoyment. In business there must be a profit and the effort to make profit is minimize expenses and maximum revenue. The balance of life, debt, and comfort comes into question when making decisions on expenses supporting hobbies.
I agree with some of the other comments here. Time on location. If you can cut 1-2 hours off each job, specifically the smaller jobs (where you might cut down whole days?), there may be a bump in total profit after balancing out P/L statements. I am not a professional photographer. In my day job I’ve sat on corporate boards and wrote proposals, presented budgets, etc. 😁
Would you make more money? Sports photography, actually yes. Certain sports, certain specific competition now flat out requires mirrorless on the electronic silent shutter. You won't be approved accreditation if you have a DSLR.
Have to agree with your comments - Can't fault it - I spend a shed load of money on Cameras and lenses - Do I really need them, not really, will they make me more money - absolutely not. Do I enjoy using them and get a lot of fun out of them - Hell yes, brings me a lot of joy and excitement. I don't drink, or smoke, I don't have extravagant holidays, but I travel a lot, take my SUV and roof tent to all sorts of places and camp and photograph and make videos. I enjoy life and have fun. Zero stress and no worries. Cracked it. 👍👍
Its not a need thing, sometimes its a want thing, i took a long while to upgrade to mirrorless, but when i did, it made shooting weddings a lot easier, so i can concentrate on other things, brings stress levels down, lets you be more creative. I view it as if something will make ny work streamlined and have the gear get out of my way so i can focus all my attention on more important things, its worth it for me
So true! Just like Wacom pen displays; I still use the 22HD, no reason to buy the newest 4k model. People don't understand that the tech doesn't make you a better artist. Getting better at art makes you a better artist.
I own a 5ds & canon R, the 5ds is more reliable, precise with its focus points in view finder, better color depth, top screen is 3x wider with an actual light that always works, you can look through view finder without turning cam on, the vertical & horizontal lines in view finder are better placed, battery life is better, the overall ergonomics is more advanced the list goes on... The R is good for less demanding jobs when you need to give your 5ds a rest, the iso performance is cleaner assuming enough ambient light, the cam is lighter, touch screen can mess your photos if you accidentally touch in top corners and move focus point, the overall body feels cheap.
As a hobbyist I’m probably talking a bit out of school. I do understand all the new features but if I can’t get it with the old gear I have, I’ve got some work to do. The photographers we all admire could nail it from a galloping horse. It’s still about the final image. DSLRS will still deliver regardless of what comes down the road, as long as we can get parts.
I was shooting a Pentax K50 and Canon T3. I decided to move to paid jobs and started looking at full frame options. I picked up an R6 to test and a few days later I had an R6 Mk2 in my kit. Total game changer. I agree that you don’t need mirrorless to get bangers, but mirrorless makes getting bangers a lot easier. Also, in some ways it makes things cheaper in the long run. On the R6 Mk2 I can get away with using F4 lenses instead of F2.8 because the images shot at even ISO 12800 look very good. I used my R6 Mk2 with a 70-200 and T3 at 18mm side by side on my last job and the T3 produced some nice images. I’ll still upgrade my second camera to the Canon RF system. There’s just too many positives to it.
Let's face it, we buy cameras because we love them, not because we really need them, or as you rightly say, they make us more money. And there is another great truth that you say and that applies especially in video, we want a new model, but you need at least 2 bodies for most jobs. That said, the difference in video results from cameras from the last 5-8 years is quite drastic, compared to photos. If I only dedicated myself to making money with photos, I would still be happy with my 5DIV.
Long before I was a photographer, I was an Information Technology manager and reported to the Chief Financial Officer. When I submitted capital expenditure proposals to him I had to provide a statement on expected return on investment. We had engineers running complex designs on advanced computers, and the faster, more reliable, more capable computer or network investment had to demonstrate the value proposition in financial terms. As a photographer, it is so subjective because we tend to make gear decisions on feelings. If those of us photographers had to do what you did, to explain to their account the financial justification for an “investment”, we would have to demonstrate how said investment will produce a financial return. Could those engineers have overcome insufficient computer capacity in my IT context? No. But your point is quite true: we photographers can improve our skills as a path to greater reliability in what we deliver. Do we spend money investing in our skills? Because sheer practice alone may not suffice, nor will watching videos-even good ones 😊.
Lol. I'm going into Weddings now in 2023 with two 6D mark I's. Picked them up for peanuts. Few prime lens scores. My startup costs were crazily low. And sure the AF has notable limitations but I'm not an AF driver, I'm a photographer, and the small amount of consideration it takes is worth it for having cheap workhorses that I honestly just adore using anyway :)
I believe that the "move" to mirrorless is the product of the modern psychosis of having to have the latest cutting edge technology without any justification for that cutting edge technology. It is my contention as a retired businessman that the major camera/lens manufacturers are using this psychosis to stay alive. The camera phone killed the camera companies bread and butter of small consumer cameras. Going mirrorless not only requires a photographer to buy a new body, but surprise, surprise, they have to buy into a whole new system. The psychosis of "latest and greatest" is the antithesis of the common sense approach of "if it ain't broke don't fix it". If a photographer can make money with what he has there is no logical reason to move to mirrorless. For me personally, the mirrorless thing is a boon. I can get tons of pro level DSLR gear for pennies on the dollar.
You have a completely different set of questions to ask yourself whether you're a pro or a hobbyist. When people (beginners) ask me which camera they need, I have started asking what tool they need to drive a nail in a piece of wood. -"Is a stone enough?", -"well, yes.. but it's much nicer with a hammer". After that the set of questions start to get slightly more nuanced. The right tool for the particular job is always the best, a really expensive gold plated "ultrahammer 3000" might be cool as a hobbyist but gives next to no advantage, and a stone might do the job just fine and cost nothing.
Yes I agree with your point especially as a business decision. I suppose the only argument would be how much certain QoL upgrades would be worth it with mirrorless even as a business. I'm only a hobbyist but as a professional I don't know if I'd ever want to deal with micro focus adjustment again and I remember that issue as it drove me mad when I used DSLRs. That and if you dual shoot video I think there's probably enough to justify moving to mirrorless, despite the cost.
I would love to see your camera and lens collection :) I use a Nikon D810 for the last 6 years, bought it used too. Never let me down and works perfectly for every work I do.
My biggest reasons for going Mirrorless are 1) My 5d Iv broke down and my 5Diii backup had a major repair and I didn't trust it as my primary camera. 2) I bought the R5s for the VR lens and its silent shutter. All of which not only paid for themselves, but also allowed me more freedom. Camera Blimps are a pain in the ass to change lenses and make setting changes.
I think you're absolutely right about the business side of having a DSLR and minimizing investment like this. But there is 2 things I believe you are missing. Some of us haven't been a photographer for as long as you, and sometimes a new piece of gear is quite enjoyable, or like a guilty pleasure to have after an intense period. Also investment is quite important to just pay less taxes, In Switzerland, if I'm in bracket above because I invested or spent less, I might have to pay 15-20K more tax on the year.
I have a salary job where photography is a big part of my occupation. I need to do copy work at different times throughout the year. On your advice, even if you didn't know you were giving it, I purchased a 5dsr for the copy work. The images are amazing, and it saved me a fortune as I already had the lenses. For my other work, it is an R3 all the way.
I think it makes no sense in the artistic point of view either. I just looked at a fashion shoot with Mario Testino & Taylor Swift, in 2014 for British Vogue, so big money involved and need a perfect result. He shot it completely in natural light with a 5D Mark III. The day I'll be able to produce the same quality of work with the same gear, maybe buying a better expensive camera would be possible, but like you said, then why buy something else? just renting a phase one on advertising jobs when needed, makes more business sense. Buying a R5 today on credit just because the af is better will not give me a good quality of work, in the contrary. Thanks to all of your precedent videos I understand that now and I regret wasting so much money in the last 5 years for nothing. I could have rent a studio instead and do a lot of test shoots...
I talk about Mario Testino, but they all used the 5D Mark III for big editorials and campaigns, Inez & Vinoodh, Patrick Demarchelier, Camilla Akrans etc.
I actually think you're wrong here Scott. Allow me to explain. I used to shoot weddings and events with Pentax*. Clack clack goes the shutter at 4.4fps and the buffer is filled at 13-17 frames in. Clients can get shirky with the amount of noise your camera (and lenses) make. I also CANNOT upskill past a certain point. I did great work with these cameras, super shots, but if I am honest with myself I knew I missed moments that were no fault of my own (skill level), I cannot predict the future and what unfolds when humans mingle and get together, no matter how much 'in the zone' I am and try and leave a buffer safety margin. What you're saying is akin to those saying that because great film shots exist then there's no need for anything better?! Which is madness, because along with the great film shots captured were MASSES of duds. This becomes a battle of keeper rates in my industry. Since moving to the stacked sensor of my Fuji XH2S (which was a drop in IQ, dynamic range and resolution from Pentax) my business is flourishing. I am able to work in theatres, musicals and orchestra rehearsals/concerts where shooting utterly silent under artificial light without banding is helping me capture moments and get referrals. Having the option of 10, 20, 30 and 40fps with what feels like an endless buffer removes one mental constraint to the days work. I am in the business of capturing moments. Not food. Some tools are just better for the job than others. I see no reason for you to switch to mirrorless for your line of work. Don't mistake the fact that because you know guys that shoot film and make money, and other people doing good work with DSLR's as a conclusion per se. Since picking a better tool I have MADE MORE MONEY, because my industry is also competitive, they like the guy shooting who makes no sound (ninja shooters!), I like being the guy that can burst and capture that EXACT moment that becomes portfolio worthy and gives you an edge over competition (I can even demonstrate this to couples on the meet and greet, show 30 images of the confetti throwing post ceremony shot and highlight why THIS SHOT is the best of all). The AF tools are no joke, it's not just about making it easier for me (which is true and welcome and aids motivation), but the fact the AF aid also gets the shots that a single af point or shifting it around with a dpad or joystick simply takes too long and the moment is gone... (compositions are significantly faster to get). The industry has been working hard on areas of AF for folks like me for sure, but its not all about AF, my XH2S can focus stack too, not that this is a tool I use much in my line of work, but I'm sure you would agree that time is money, so if it takes less time for the focus stack shot to be made then that is actually good business! I think you're showing a little bit of how out of touch you've become with genres outside your specialty. It's competitive out there, shots matter, keeper rates matter, sound (or no sound) matters and most of all having tech to assist the tog frees up their skill set to concentrate on the stuff that really matters like composition, light, mood, moments, expressions. But I've said it before, if I was a Landscape photographer I would have seen no reason to change to MILC either, I was doing fine with my Pentax (better even) than what currently exists. Cameras are just tools, get the right tool for job and you stand to make more money. *granted Pentax was never the right tool for this line of work in the first place, but you get the point.
I completely agree with you, I picked up a mirrored Sony a37 for about $130.00 U.S. and it is turning out AMAZING photos at 16.5 MP. It does everything I need it to. A great camera for a Real Bearded Santa on a budget.
This is sound advice even for us hobbyists, gear acquisition syndrome is real and I need to be really truthful with myself as to why I would change gear. I'd LOVE a Fuji GFX or Hasselblad X2D but my DSLR does everything I need. There's nothing wrong with wanting a nicer thing because it's nicer.. but I feel I really need to accept that before taking the plunge. Definitely would love a video on your hobbyist collection!
I held literally the same position. And than somehow i got roped into trying a z9 for a week… i returned it after 3 days because i wanted to buy mine asap. It’s not that i needed it. My d780 was the best camera i ever had and was enjoying using it. I took it bc it makes my job unbearably more easy (im a concert photographer) and i can focus more on the quality of deliverables, more so than covering all of the service photos i am required to do on shoots like these.
Interesting discussion here. I somehow knew your answer would be cost which makes total sense. Professional photographers don't have to have the latest cameras, even potentially when talking about image quality in real world usage. Funnily enough, I moved from a DSLR in 2019 to a mirrorless so I could use modern, native manual lenses with better focusing aids (plus the camera is quite a bit smaller). I moved to a more technologically advanced camera just so I could ignore the advanced autofocus features and use it with manual lenses!
Come and join our community over here where I discuss and show BTS stuff that can't go on CZcams www.patreon.com/tinhouse
Mirrorless hasn't made me a better photographer but it has certainly made life easier as someone who photographs a lot of running dogs and pet portraits.
Get that A9iii and you’ll be miles ahead
@@Chris-ey7zy the A74 is plenty good enough for me
A74 doesn't do anything radically better that you couldn't do with an old Nikon D500
@SoundSpeeding autofocus is far better than any DSLR. I was a nikon shooter before switching shot the D850 for over 2 years. It was a great a camera but it still missed action shots. Particularly dogs running towards the camera
@@antwilk1981 My Pentax K-3 iii tracks my hyperactive sprocker spaniel running towards the camera just fine. I was amazed. As a long time Pentax devotee I was used to less than par autofocus. It probably isn't as good as the latest mirrorless offerings, but I get a very high keeper rate, and most bad shots are down to me, and the fact that I am using a rather old lens.
I was shooting weddings when I bought my R6 and I really only got it for one reason - the af just made my life easier. I will absolutely pay money to make my life easier. Before I bought it I was definitely getting the shots I needed, but the upgraded tracking convenience and not having to worry about focus plane shifting when I focused and recomposed on my 5D Mark III just made me happy.
I don't shoot weddings anymore - I've been working on getting into commercial work. The focus just makes my life easier. I can still get the job done with my 5D mark III (I still have it). I had my R6 stop functioning during a project. I just popped out the 5D and got what I needed, no problem.
Now RF glass...I'm not paying for any of that. All of my lenses are adapted EF glass. 😂
I made the exact same upgrade.
The AF system is incredibly convenient ☺️
Moving from an 80d to a Sony A7iii was the best decision I ever made. No more taking 4 shots to hopefully get one that was focused. My adapted EF glass focused better and more reliably on the A7iii than the 80D lol. Honestly, I use my A7IV with my primary lens because I know the hit rate is higher, nothing else.
Don't Worry..... Be Happy!!!
Just love your no-bullshit honesty, and massive hands-on common sense! And, rightfully, kicking back at the prevailing CZcams-proliferating propaganda/techno-snobbery that is impossible to avoid now: this imperative to buy the latest mirrorless/full-frame camera... and loving your wonderful line:"What did we all do before?" What kind of cameras gave us all the glorious photo legacy of the last 180 years? Having shot pictures since a boy sixty years ago - moving through Kodaks, to Halina, to Practica (my first SLR), to a Nikkormat (Nikon lenses... big in the sixties)... to my present Nikon DSLR, it's been fun, and I've taken loads of good pictures. And now, am still learning all the quirks of my Nikon D500, I am being made to feel I'm missing out by not buying the latest Canon, or Sony! God, the online pressure! But, sure, with one of these, will I actually be a better photographer? No, I'll be the same guy - quite good, and using my camera as a tool, to take great pictures. That's all...
Scott, you're fab! Keep on kicking at all the widespread photo crap that we unavoidably suffer!
Thank you for providing rational and toughtful content on professional photography. Lots of photography accounts spreading FOMO with their upgrade cycles or videos on "switching". All without ever really discussing the cost and the viability of these upgrades. I really appreciate your perspective, and see I'm not the only one. Keep up the good work and stay yourself. Cheers Scott !
Nothing left to be said. As a German, I don't know the meaning of FOMO, I'll have to look it up afterwards but guess it is about catching as much views as possible 😮
Fear Of Missing Out - not exactly, but very close to my gut feeling [below!]
My pleasure!
There is nothing FOMO about Mirrorless. Mirrorless cameras have revolutionized the camera industry again. With the way you are thinking, you are in the same category as Blockbuster, ex-ceo Steve Ballmer and Kodak. Sony is in the same league as Apple, Tesla and Samsung. Sony is pushing the boundaries and limits to reach new heights. Mirrorless technology have made cameras so much better than ever before. But people like you are the reasons why Canon and Nikon stuck around with their DSLR instead of innovating. Sony forced them to invest heavily into Mirrorless back in 2017 because if they didn't, we be stuck with DSLR for another 10 years.
We all already know the cost of upgrading to a new camera. Canon, Nikon and Sony wouldn't just make these Mirrorless cameras a niches. They are revolutionary and have advanced photography again. My skills as a photographer have already exceeded what a DSLR camera can do. A Mirrorless camera allows my skills to become even better.
And since you think Mirrorless is FOMO, stop using your smartphone and go back to using a flip phone. I bet you posted here with your smartphone while watching this youtube video. It's always DSLR users coming up with dumb excuses on why they think Mirrorless is overrated. They are the same people that thinks like Blockbuster, Kodak, Blackberry, Nintendo, etc.
@@harryvuemedia5106 Hey Harry, thanks for the comment. I did not state mirrorless is fueling FOMO, and in fact - I have a mirrorless camera as well as an older DSLR. However, what I have stated and hold to is - upgrading because of some new technological features in a camera is a personal choice. You should think about it - does it make sense for you and your business? That was my criticism and the source for kudos to Scott.
You will not be "left behind" or seen as unprofessional if you don't have the newest gear. Whatever some youtuber says. My gripe with youtubers is that they often switch systems like Fujifilm->Leica, Nikon->Sony,.. and make a big deal out of it. The only reason for making all of these big claims is more viewership to their channel. While giving users FOMO about not owning let's say a new Canon, Sony or a Leica.
If you can make great images with a A7III, you don't need neccessarily need the A9III's global shutter. But youtubers will be still be making videos about it a few months from now saying it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. It may very well be. But after the A9III comes the A9IV, with even more stuff and features, just maybe 2 years from now. If you don't need that, there is no point spending the money. I think that as photographers (pro or otherwise) we need to see that the gear serves us, and not the other way around. If Scott can do everything with a 5DSR and EF lenses, more power to him. Just because RF glass exists and an R3 is a cool camera does not mean he should be compelled to spend a big amount of money right now. He could use that money in a better way today, and upgrade when it makes sense to him.
One more thing - I did not get your arguement how people liking Blockbuster rentals or Kodak film affected people that want Netflix or Digital cameras. DSLR enjoyers don't hurt anyone owning a mirrorless camera. There are still professionals using film and DSLR's, yet they are not responsible for lack of innovation from camera manufactures for that reason. Anyway, wish you the best of luck with photography - cheers !
Mirrorless hasn’t changed my photos, but its increased my keeper rate x10. Plus the upgraded sensors with ridiculous highlight recovery / shadow recovery is crazy. I have shot with every 5D; classic through 5DIV. I now shoot on R5’s and a M11. The R5 has been the biggest upgrade I’ve ever undertaken.
YES.. I am curious... show me your camera gear... even what you dont use nowadays.. and if you have time tell us the live story of the gear, how it started and how it ended before you moved to your next toy.
It would be interesting indeed....
I always appreciate the distinction you draw between shooting for a job and shooting for a hobby.
I don't really shoot professionally anymore, but the part of my job I did for money can still be done with old gear. The gear collecting is just a hobby.
The fancy new stuff is mostly about fun, speed, and convenience, and gaining access to more lens options since mirrorless is so adaptable.
Yeah, in these days shooting w/ vintage glass and film can sum up to a fortune 😢😢😢
Two things that really made me go mirrorless; full sensor focus points from edge to edge, and no more misaligned lenses causing missed focus. My 5DM4 is right on everytime I use live view focus, but sometimes back or front focuses using the OVF. All the mirrorless cameras will also nail focus every time because like with live view the focus is on the sensor and isnt decoupled to a seperate metering and focus system. At least thats how I understand it.
Excellent point, same conclusion I came to recently, avoiding the camera manufacturers "market speak" to keep selling the most newest expensive equipment to keep them in businesses while actually ruining the art of photography.😢
Scott, I did a two day campaign for Coca Cola, chasing models around urban areas with my Canon 5D mk3 back in 2018. Available light, quick scenarios, etc and when I downloaded the images my sharp images to unsharp was 1:2. I brought my Canon gear who I had been with for 20 years along with my Pentax 645z equipment to my local and traded them in for Sony mirrorless. It was a total game changer for my style of photography, where quick moving subjects, need to be in focus. So if I could get a Canon DSLR that had 93% viewfinder AF coverage and it was as quick as the Sony's I would have stayed.
I don't look back at the cameras I have owned and feel sentimental; they are tools and if they can't do what I need them to do, then I move on to the next ones that can.
You need to start up a hire company, go buy a used Phase One system and rent it back to yourself for your shoots, then you'll have the best of both worlds.
The phrase "amateurs have better gear than pros" hit pretty hard. Haven't heard the concept summarized so nicely
I think that's often true. I make purchases for three reasons: Will it save time? Will it improve the photos? Will it make me more money?
After doing photography for 24 years, switching to mirrorless hit all three marks... But, BIG BUT, I think it depend on what you photograph for a living.
If you're doing general portraits, you might have a few more useable photos, so probably not worth it... Studio product photos, definitely not worth switching.
For me doing weddings & dogs, it was night & day.
Less stress, better/more shots to choose from, less time to get the shots &, less time editing.
PS
What's funny is, I switched to mirrorless for fun & love of the gear. I didn't think it would make a difference in profit or workflow. Man, was I wrong
I agree with mostly everyting you said but you also need to consider if the gear you want (or might even claim you -need-) to buy makes your job easier or more efficient. Coming from someone who also used to shoot weddings and owns the same 5Ds camera now. I would never use this camera for weddings today. It is much slower to focus, much worse at low light, and much heavier and bulkier. And yes, I and others in the past used to shoot weddings with 5D mark ii's and even 6Ds, so? We also used to ride horses and you could probably haul a bunch of gear today with a horse and a wagon. But why make your job and life needlessly more difficult? You have a pretty expensive studio camera stand in the background. I am sure you can do as much with a tripod and jerry-rigging a camera to a c-stand if you need to get close or at a weird angle. But you have the stand, not because it makes you $5k more, because it makes your job more efficient.
Not saying the 5Ds is bad, it is great for studio work. I use it for studio work. But for the specific example of wedding photography that you mentioned, you dismissed the other factors in gear purchase decision that are also important. Does having a proper tethering station make me $1k more? God knows, but it is much safer and convenient than setting up a laptop on top of apple boxes.
I guess what I'm saying is that the formula isn't as simple as: does this $5K purchase make me $5K more? sometimes the value of things is more implicit and nuanced.
Yes, efficiency is such a good point. Having the same (or better) quality images in less time, the dollars will add up
@@mdhazeldine
Exactly. Time is money. I may only save an hour here & there per shoot switching to mirrorless, but at the end of the year or added up to a couple hundred hires saved at least
I made an informed decision a couple of years ago to leave my beloved Olympus 4/3's system for the Nikon Z system. The decision wasn't easy for me. Honestly I am between being a hobbyist and a income producing pro. Then I spent a year building my kit, with pitfalls on purchasing and now pretty much own what I WANT to do the JOB. Just as I finished my buying "spree" along comes your channel (well when I found your channel)! And it has allowed me to be better informed about my buying habits and I have drastically dropped my spending on gear that I WANT! I have all the gear I NEED to do the job I do. But you have really helped me in evaluating my goals. Your videos have really helped me. Oh, I am portrait and model photographer on a small scale.
Good video. Cameras have morphed into computers and they "need" to be upgraded regularly because otherwise the software/firmware updated creates a problem. It's planned obsolescence.
Would love to see you camera collection!!
Everyone should watch your videos. They're brilliant.
Two supporting points - I used to shoot sports and news for a living using film and manual focus glass. It is of course possible. Also, many wedding and event photographers I know will tell you - for the really important, CANNOT miss shots - they switch out of subject tracking and go right to single point. Canon, Sony, Nikon - doesn’t matter - they know when and when not to lean on tracking features.
All that said, yes I love my mirrorless system and it does absolutely get out my way so I can create better / easier / faster. Modern tech is magic. But all your points here are absolutely valid 👍🏻
Have to disagree here, mirrorless has been a game changer for me mainly down to being able to shoot from the hip more inconspicuously and no more chimping. The face autofocus is also great when shooting a single person but don’t rate it otherwise. Has it made me more money? Possibly, hard to say, I can see a difference in my work which may or may not translate to more / better clients. The colours that come out of my mirrorless are also way nicer than my 5Diii. Completely understand why it wouldn’t make financial sense for you Scott but you work in a very controlled environment where your camera is essentially a sensor.
That kinda sounds like an advert for a Rolleiflex or Hasselblad ELM derivative with the biggest back.
Agree with all your comments spot on a good photographer never blames his tools as you learn to adapt. Good photographers will take great shots regardless of what camera. Love the comments with all the autofocus hahaha classic couple years back they would have told you their previous camera was a must and made their life so much easier too....keep up the great work and keeping ìt real👍
I did weddings and events on a 5D Mk II, great camera and I still have it. I didn't upgrade to the iii, or the IV, but kept at it with the mk II.
Now, doing landscape mostly for my own pleasure, I got the R5, and expect it may outlive me ;-) Coupled with cheaper 2nd-hand EF glass, I know it is all down to me now, with absolutely no excuse about equipment!
How well work the EF glass with the adapter?
@@amermeleitor Excellently! And if you use the (*far* too expensive) Canon adaptor with a polariser, you have the one polariser that works with every lens.
I really enjoy the frank and honest approach of your videos to business. You're also an incredible educator, your channel is a breath of fresh air
Loved the last comment about Fuji. Yes. Yes they are.
... coming back to this post from the future to ask, "Did you foresee you outgrowing the need for backup cameras...thus freeing yourself to explore the luxury of dropping all your canon bodies in trade for the newest upgrade?"
I love your channel and your raw truth. This is completely consistent with your logic. Genuine. Inspirational.
we all want to see your camera collection!!!
I definitely wanna see your camera collection 😅. In fact, I would love to see your personal, not work related, just for fun, film photos.
"...and they GET PAID". Thank you as always for simplifying with laser focus.
Great advice!. I used Canon 5D's for years to shoot weddings and actually still have some as back ups. 5D's are amazing cameras, would definitely recommend them to anyone getting into wedding photography... but as a "professional" that shoots around 40 weddings a year, I would say the money I spent on the R6 was just about worth it. Maybe not 100% necessary, but I do think it makes my life a lot easier in various ways and I know people are happy to pay for things that make life easier. Also after shooting hundreds of weddings its nice to have a new toy. They get pretty boring after a while :)
What we did before R5 R6 and mirrorless? We crawled in mud to get low angle shot and hoped that AF will focus on eyes. We Sprayed and prayed from high angle and honestly it's not about a money. Will it make me more money - may be not. But it surely helped me to make the same amount So Much Easier. How much that worth for an event photographer? My experience and fellow photographers around me - it's enough to switch. And we never looked back for sweet times when you were glued to viewfinder or crippled by AF live view on DSRL. It's like Leica vs film 1D - and same arguments - H Cartie-Bresson did not use motor winding and af - so what? He did use latest and fastest camera for him and now he maybe used Fuji or iPhones. But if you shoot sport events people - switch, it's worth it like M-chip Mac vs Intel - fast, easy, convenient, reliable. And completely 100% silent for theater work.
You hit on something I completely understand. I'm a hobbyist. I love photography, and I also love the gear (except lighting). I currently use an old Canon 5D Mk III, but I want to move to mirrorless. I don't need it. I have been happy with my DSLR. I want it, though, because I want the higher resolution I can get with the new mirrorless cameras. I am a member of a running club and like to shoot running races. Higher resolution will give me better ability to crop my images to pick my friends out of a crowd and still get a good result that makes them stand out. I won't move to an R5, though. I don't have that much money for a hobby. I'll probably pick up a used EOS R next year. But I fully understand everything you're saying. In business, your decisions have to be about what makes you more money.
You had me at 5D Mkiii, brilliant piece of kit!
Just buy an older mirrorless body and start migrating into the system.
@@lemnisgate8809 That's what I'm thinking. That's why I said I'll start with a used EOS R. I use the LED on the top of my 5D too much to move to something without that, so I won't start with the RP.
Those are good arguments but honestly it depends on what you shoot and in your case shooting in a studio with controlled lighting and repeatable shots it doesn't really matter. I do the occasional wedding for extra side income and the last wedding I shot had beautiful natural lighting coming in through the windows that I was able to get some amazing shots of with my alpha 1 that my old 5D MKII would have struggled with immensely. It's those shots that get me referred to other couples and yes, that makes me more money. I hit my ROI technically in 1 1/2 weddings and have a solid return schedule over the next 3 years capping my 5 year net ROI at $210,000 on a $6500 investment. That's just assuming I sell and reinvest at the 5 year mark and only accounts for the wedding side hustle not my other photo/video gigs! It's definitely making me more money!
I'm a in the field event photographer. Ironically, I decided to trade in my 5D Mark III for a 5D Mark IV and also incorporated an R6 into my gear. As an event photographer, shutter noise was never a concern for concerts and commercial events. However, in the world of performance art and public speaking, the mirrorless camera has become a lifesaver. Yet, the banding issue tends to rear its ugly head if I'm not meticulous with my shutter speed and other settings. It turns out, the mirrorless isn't as forgiving in certain situations. I'm now looking at adding a 1dx II to 1dx III. Heck I might even grab a 1dx as a third bodynjust because they are cheap nowdays.
OMG, YES, no shutter sound during ceremonies has been awesome with mirrorless!
Interesting point on the hobbyist vs professional. As a hobbyist, I had a 5DmkII and would head out on weekends to shoot cars, my dogs and maybe a bit of wildlife. I felt I had to shoot on the lowest shutter speed possible and the widest aperture. I found the focus wasn't spot on for moving subjects a lot of the time, or the picture wasn't crisp from too low shutter speed, or the ISO graining was too much for my liking. But I would get a handful of crisp and clear photos with perfect focus, and that was good enough for me.
But I went out with a friend and their dog in a summer evening, and was taking pictures as our dogs played together under the most beautiful sunset. I got home and none of the pictures were fully focused correctly. I was then out at a local nature reserve and came across a kingfisher briefly... again, came home and the focus was missed. It was at this point I decided to make the jump to mirrorless and have not regretted it one bit, despite being bloody expensive. I no longer have to worry about missed focus or low ISO, so it has given me more freedom to compose and get creative, while knowing I'll be capturing the moments without worry.
I 100% agree with the sentiment. It's not worth upgrading as a pro unless there's a business benefit.
I disagree that there is no business benefit to mirrorless cameras, but that's mostly because of the type of work I do. Silent shutter on mirrorless cameras is expected by many event clients. The photos aren't any better, but there are definitely clients who would stop hiring me if I didn't have a silent camera.
I love my DSLRs, I love my SLRs and I love using my mirrorless cameras and compacts. I never buy the latest and greatest ... I totally agree with you.
Interesting - totally get this! For me, when I came to replace my Nikon D750s the Sony A7Riii was around the same price as the Nikon D850... so I opted for the Sony. Made sense to have those quality of life updates (electronic viewfinder etc), but also offered meaningfully better video quality, so I could start offering that. Wait did I just prove your point
Would you be able to shoot your work quicker? Not just fps, but like focus stacking and pixel shift in camera? I think there are a more reasons why mirrorless is replacing DSLR's. Its not just skill, but time is money right? We shoot a lot of add campaign's with children and people, and having the latest greatest autofocus system really makes a difference. We can get a better result in less time. Yes we held off on the whole mirrorless for a long time as well, but when we finally did make the jump to the Nikon Z9 we're able to get the same results quicker. We still use the same lenses, but we have to do less retakes because off the eye autofocus . If we save like an hour on a 10 hour shoot with a full crew, it probably payed itself in less then a month. Maybe the mirrorless camera's don't provide any advantages for you, but I think for many shooting people, mirrorless does have it benefits.
Biggest change for me was the size, which helps for airline travel. Lighting is still a bit large, though much improved over years ago. No weddings, just advertising and corporate projects. So I probably have 1/3rd less weight with mirrorless.
I still do half my work on film cameras a lot of people prefer the look of film to digital. And yes I'd love to see your collection 😅
That's a great idea for a niche market ❤ I think you're about to get even more business soon, because people love authentic/retro, and with all the advances in AI I think people will start to gravitate toward film even more. And you'll probably be able to charge more as a "premium" high end photographer too!
Great conversation I totally agree look back in history and see what all the great photographers were using, they weren’t using Mirror less!
I would have one argument here. As you mentioned in a previous video. Filming/stop motion/short clips are basically required on most jobs these days. New cameras allow for photos and video at 4k60fps. So my argument being is if you are shooting photos and video then a business use case can be made to pick up a relatively newish camera, that does both. In stead of two cameras one for video and one for photos.
What is so sad, is that too many amateurs are taken in by all the marketing hype around equipment, when their primary focus should be on the results.
And then they wonder why their 'product' isn't selling. It's all about the results.
The two reasons you should buy a mirrorless is silent shutter, no noise, and the refresh of images in the eyepiece so you know if you got exposure easily. last week I got good images with both
I moved to mirrorless at the start of Micro 4/3 because for my freelance fishing sports photography they had compact bodies and best selection of water-resistant bodies & lenses ( still true today!). Battery life sucked initially but it now very good. Prices were in the middle of the market so not an over-the-top investment. Current workhorse for me is an Olympus E-M1 Mkii and a pair of Pro zoom lenses that cover 35mm equivalent of 24mm-80mm and 80 -300mm at f2.8. All are about 7 years old and outlasted any previous camera & lenses from C or N. Plus can do in-camera focus stacking and 50MP high resolution. Main plus for DSLRs was battery life, but their physical size (harder to carry when climbing rocks or wading in surf) and prices for the water-resistant construction was the killer for me and mirrorless was a God send in terms of size, performance and price. I try to follow the dictum of "if ain't broke don't replace it"!
I just bought a Canon 5D (the original) for $157. Still produces amazing images. Newer is better but DSLR's are an incredible value right now.
If you wanna feel good about these old 5D's just look up reviews when it came out. People were gushing over it and it's never gotten any worse. It's still a highly capable image making machine
Thanks Scott for the very insightful opinion! You are the man.
So I walked into the camera store and there was a huge poster on the wall that said, “your wife called, she said go ahead and buy it”. lol.
This was really well explained, thank you. I'd be interested in seeing that camera collection!
After 12 years with a 5DII, then a 5DIII, I switched to the R6 in August 2021. The mirrorless auto-focus has truly been a game changer. Studio shoots now, unbelievably, have zero missed focus shots. Hand-held low shutter speed shots (1/60) with an EF 200mm telephoto are now pretty much all in focus with the assistance of the R6s in-body stabilisation. Just 2 of many noticeable improvements. But the biggest transformation has been videography. Can honestly say the increased income from videography work alone has totally justified switching to mirrorless, so much so that a year later we added the R6II to our setup. These two cameras are absolute workhorses, shooting stills or video.
Having said all that, I really enjoyed your explanation and rationale. It's a good discussion and just shows how we all can enjoy the same passion with different approaches. I still have my 5Ds and can't bear to let them go yet, they've been amazing cameras to me.
Thanks so much for making this video.
Thank you for continuing to make this point! Photography as a business is a completely different mindset than photography as a hobby.
Hi Scott, I agree with you that from a business perspective you shouldn't spend more than you need. But from a wider photography perspective if nobody purchased new equipment where would the secondhand market be? It would be like recent times where lots of people were chasing the few decent film cameras and pushing the prices up. You need lots of hobbyists to buy into the Fuji GFX system so that in a few years time the secondhand market for them will be dirt cheap.
LOL, now that's another way to look at it... 😆
Great thoughts, thankx ! ..... and yes I would like to see your camera collection !! ;-) ....
Morning Scott, at a wedding mirrorless gives you massively more confidence of getting the shot. The Fuji's are extremely quiet even without using the silent shutter, they are small and unobtrusive and with the flip out screen mean that you aren't screaming "I'm taking a photo of you" which is important when working closely. The lenses are cheaper than most full frame equivalents and lighter. My hands still ache after 12 hours but I don't have carpel tunnel. They aren't the best with flash - especially off camera dance floor but an old Nikon crop sensor on fully manual fixes that for me. I can't imagine taking 4,000 images on one day on a DSLR (yes I sequence). And I can pick up another used x-t3 for £800 😊
PENTAX still making DSLR cameras.
Your logic is totally sound, however, the R5 is not the only mirrorless camera. There are other considerably less expensive options geared toward different use cases. For me, switching to mirrorless didn't directly result in booking more work, but... there were indirect savings that did result in either more money in my pocket, or more free time that I could apply to paid work if I wanted to. For example, having the face and eye autofocus coupled with having a viewfinder that shows what the actual image will look like (when shooting with available light) means less shots taken, which translates into less money spent on storage, and less time culling photos, and even more importantly, shorter session times, which does free up time to book more work if I wanted to. Additionally, this is less of a mirrorless thing, and more of a newer technology thing, but the newer cameras generally bring faster and more trouble free tethering, which again, translates into less time spent. Having really good mirrorless autofocus has translated into the camera just getting out of the way and allowing me to spend nearly all of my concentration on working with the subject to get the best out of them, which translates into even shorter session times, and even less shots taken because nearly all of them are keepers.
For the type of work I do, my complete camera kit (including lenses) is less than $2000 new per copy, and in money saved on storage alone since switching to mirrorless about 5 years ago, it's been totally paid for, and I have considerably faster and more streamlined sessions where I take considerably less shots, and I have my subject in and out and have delivered images way faster and can move on to the next thing.
If all I was willing to buy was the R5 could I make the same case? Not really, though I'd still be taking less shots and having shorter session times, the money saved on storage wouldn't quite make up for the cost of that particular camera.
Really good commentary on this whole subject. No one I have seen has brought up the "bottom line"...business. Thank you.
For me, Only upgrade a camera if the image quality is noticeably improved. Nothing else matters. Yes please get your hobby film cameras out,. love to see them.
Great video! No NEED to upgrade. Just a WANT. It's not what you earn. It's what you don't spend.
I love your take, why I have bought a Nikon D800, D850 and several Nikkor F mount glass. The used DSLR market is full of awesome buys.
Oh I would love to see that camera collection :D
I don't need it, but it is a lot of nice to haves, and if it is more fun for me to use, and it makes me more eager to go out and shoot as a landscape/wildlife photographer, and more motivated, it gets me better pictures, and as a result, it helps pay back for the camera.
I agree with the business side of things - but sometimes, it is okay to treat yourself (or your employees) to something too. It is hard to quantify the 'it is more fun and makes me more happy to do what I do' in a pure financial discussion, but you mustn't underestimate the impact that has. This is the same with things like employee activities. You cannot quantify 'how long will taking my staff out to lunch and an afternoon activity take to pay itself back'. But at the same time, it could be that those kind of activities are what allows you to attract the best talent, and that could, in the end, make you a lot of money.
Ok, I see your point. You are in studios, I’m not. It’s a different circumstance than I have.
I do both photo and video. I need maximum DR on location with mixed lighting for photos. I have one R5 can do all the jobs I get. For me it’s more economical. I have the R for back up.
I have had many of Canon dslrs the 5Ds and two 1Ds, they where great at that time. If there is tech to help me work faster, less post work, I’ll use that and get rid of the old that are less effective. Effective tools is what I want.
I like the look I get out from Canon R line up with Profoto and Capture One, I get a look that can be my style.
I am quite happy with my Canon Eeos DLSR. I am keeping camera, lenses, and adding the newest Eos so I can have Video too. I saw a mirrorless at my daughter's wedding. I spoke with the photographer and commented about how quiet it was.
I am old school with decades of experience. I want everyone to hear my cameras. Years ago, I worked for a studio and did lots of weddings. Had 2 1/4 square Hasselblad and 2 1/4 x 2 3/4 RB67 Mamiya that could change between Landscape and Portrait quickly and easily. I used my SLR 35mm for backup.
Before that, at University, I studied photography and had access to a 4 x 5 Calumet Studio View Camera. Did all my own B/W Film and Prints. Yes, size really does matter.
Yes please, I'd like to see your camera Collection as a hobbyist!
Well yes. But I shoot Billboard Campaigns during TV commercial productions. My time slots are between 10 and 20 minutes sometimes even less. Because they are always behind schedule. I shoot people, they move around sometimes more sometimes less. Before, there was not that much of a pressure or at least a little more time or less content to be produced. these days they are trying to do more and more scenes in one day and want to do the photo campaign as well bc it saves them money bc of crew, talents, locations etc. The more shots are in focus in those 10 min (with light setup sometimes) the better - there are more pictures to choose from at the end and the client is happy. When I shoot with the R5 bc the resolution is not so crucial, I don't even need to check if the focus hit or not. It's really just that good. With my Fuji GFX 100 II it's getting better but there are still moments where 'the picture' is sometimes out of focus. I did shoot a lot of film 35mm, 6x7, 6x6, 6x9, 4x5. But when your photos are out of focus with the R5 I think you should work on your skills. I get the approach that jobs are business. But when I get my GFX out of the case I'm happy like a little child on christmas eve bc the camera feels good, looks good and does a great job overall. the canon R5 is just simply a tool, no passion or butterflies in my stomach here. I like working with tools I like. The more I like to use it, the more test shoots I do. The more motivated I'am. And I didn't have that with any canon cameras I used. I had that with film cameras. The R5 is just a tool, but the fuji comes pretty close to that feeling now. Also the GFX 50R, just a wonderful camera for test shoots. Even as a professional, after working in this field for a while now, it is important to like and feel the tools you are working with. Also for still life, the fuji cameras do meet all your demands already. What else you need from that camera? Besides leaf shutter lenses maybe. but there is also a work around. I bet no client sees the difference when you use a Fuji or phase one. But your business will feel it when you compare the price. So yes I don't get more paid by using a more expensive camera. But my output is better with a more expensive camera. Not even speaking about the aspect ratio you are shooting with when using medium format. Sure you can crop in later but the result is different and tbh it's just not sexy. My style changed since I use medium format also bc you have to think more while shooting. Anyway even as a professional, you should get some joy out of what you are working with. If you don't have the budget/jobs for a GFX or hasselblad, don't buy it. Phase one is the one camera most people need the least I think, especially for that price. Unless you shoot car campaigns or archival repros from paintings at the museum. Last but not least, when calling yourself pro and charging premium amounts of money, I do wan't to deliver state of the art output and as many sharp images as possible, that's part of being pro. Of course this is not what is needed on every single job and also of course there is no need to go for every upgrade cycle, I guess you need to evaluate rationally if it makes your job any easier or just costs you. Anyway, I like your videos and that's just my opinion haha. Cheers!
Thanks Scott, great info mate! Congrats on the new studio
Well said, use the right camera for the job you need it for. Using a Canon 1DS to shoot high frame rate sport.. no, buffer would run out too quickly. Use it for studio, perfect. You can pick up amazing cameras second hand but people love buying the latest and greatest.
OF COURSE WE WANT TO SEE YOUR CAMERA COLLECTION!
Just came across your channel recently.
I have no real interest in becoming a professional photographer but I've gotta say i like your videos and thoughts and views on pro photography cause they just make sense.
Im a hobbiest guy and whatever I do Buy in photography gear is purely for my own enjoyment.
A lot of what you say makes sense for a hobby guy also...although occasionally...would we do buy something that it doesn't make financial sense.
For the amount of time and money that I have available to enjoy my hobby it never made sense for me to go out and buy the latest and greatest new gear even though I must admit I have had lust in my heart when reading about new equipment.
If I'm looking for a certain particular lens....ill wait and wait and wait until I find a crazy good deal used.
Ahhhhh... If I ever come across a phase one at a flea market.....oooohhhh....lol
Keep rockin the channel!
Yes. I want to see your camera collection. I shoot with 5d classic. Love it.
I feel like this is more of a new camera vs old camera than mirrorless vs DSLR, as if you're shooting Sony or Fuji DSLR's aren't even a thing
Well said. I am sticking to my DLSRs until I must move on because of the lack of options or if the business requires, but I am not changing because because I want too. Wise words, its the business case versus personal enjoyment. In business there must be a profit and the effort to make profit is minimize expenses and maximum revenue. The balance of life, debt, and comfort comes into question when making decisions on expenses supporting hobbies.
I agree with some of the other comments here. Time on location. If you can cut 1-2 hours off each job, specifically the smaller jobs (where you might cut down whole days?), there may be a bump in total profit after balancing out P/L statements. I am not a professional photographer. In my day job I’ve sat on corporate boards and wrote proposals, presented budgets, etc. 😁
Would you make more money? Sports photography, actually yes.
Certain sports, certain specific competition now flat out requires mirrorless on the electronic silent shutter. You won't be approved accreditation if you have a DSLR.
Have to agree with your comments - Can't fault it - I spend a shed load of money on Cameras and lenses - Do I really need them, not really, will they make me more money - absolutely not. Do I enjoy using them and get a lot of fun out of them - Hell yes, brings me a lot of joy and excitement. I don't drink, or smoke, I don't have extravagant holidays, but I travel a lot, take my SUV and roof tent to all sorts of places and camp and photograph and make videos. I enjoy life and have fun. Zero stress and no worries. Cracked it. 👍👍
Its not a need thing, sometimes its a want thing, i took a long while to upgrade to mirrorless, but when i did, it made shooting weddings a lot easier, so i can concentrate on other things, brings stress levels down, lets you be more creative. I view it as if something will make ny work streamlined and have the gear get out of my way so i can focus all my attention on more important things, its worth it for me
So true! Just like Wacom pen displays; I still use the 22HD, no reason to buy the newest 4k model. People don't understand that the tech doesn't make you a better artist. Getting better at art makes you a better artist.
I own a 5ds & canon R, the 5ds is more reliable, precise with its focus points in view finder, better color depth, top screen is 3x wider with an actual light that always works, you can look through view finder without turning cam on, the vertical & horizontal lines in view finder are better placed, battery life is better, the overall ergonomics is more advanced the list goes on...
The R is good for less demanding jobs when you need to give your 5ds a rest, the iso performance is cleaner assuming enough ambient light, the cam is lighter, touch screen can mess your photos if you accidentally touch in top corners and move focus point, the overall body feels cheap.
As a hobbyist I’m probably talking a bit out of school. I do understand all the new features but if I can’t get it with the old gear I have, I’ve got some work to do. The photographers we all admire could nail it from a galloping horse. It’s still about the final image. DSLRS will still deliver regardless of what comes down the road, as long as we can get parts.
I was shooting a Pentax K50 and Canon T3. I decided to move to paid jobs and started looking at full frame options. I picked up an R6 to test and a few days later I had an R6 Mk2 in my kit. Total game changer. I agree that you don’t need mirrorless to get bangers, but mirrorless makes getting bangers a lot easier. Also, in some ways it makes things cheaper in the long run. On the R6 Mk2 I can get away with using F4 lenses instead of F2.8 because the images shot at even ISO 12800 look very good. I used my R6 Mk2 with a 70-200 and T3 at 18mm side by side on my last job and the T3 produced some nice images. I’ll still upgrade my second camera to the Canon RF system. There’s just too many positives to it.
Love the video. So true! We would love to see your camera collection ⭐️
Complete sense Scott, thank you refreshing.
Let's face it, we buy cameras because we love them, not because we really need them, or as you rightly say, they make us more money. And there is another great truth that you say and that applies especially in video, we want a new model, but you need at least 2 bodies for most jobs. That said, the difference in video results from cameras from the last 5-8 years is quite drastic, compared to photos. If I only dedicated myself to making money with photos, I would still be happy with my 5DIV.
Long before I was a photographer, I was an Information Technology manager and reported to the Chief Financial Officer. When I submitted capital expenditure proposals to him I had to provide a statement on expected return on investment. We had engineers running complex designs on advanced computers, and the faster, more reliable, more capable computer or network investment had to demonstrate the value proposition in financial terms. As a photographer, it is so subjective because we tend to make gear decisions on feelings. If those of us photographers had to do what you did, to explain to their account the financial justification for an “investment”, we would have to demonstrate how said investment will produce a financial return. Could those engineers have overcome insufficient computer capacity in my IT context? No. But your point is quite true: we photographers can improve our skills as a path to greater reliability in what we deliver. Do we spend money investing in our skills? Because sheer practice alone may not suffice, nor will watching videos-even good ones 😊.
Lol. I'm going into Weddings now in 2023 with two 6D mark I's. Picked them up for peanuts. Few prime lens scores. My startup costs were crazily low. And sure the AF has notable limitations but I'm not an AF driver, I'm a photographer, and the small amount of consideration it takes is worth it for having cheap workhorses that I honestly just adore using anyway :)
The center point on those 6d are crazy accurate, I can get shots on my 6d that I can't with the r6.
I believe that the "move" to mirrorless is the product of the modern psychosis of having to have the latest cutting edge technology without any justification for that cutting edge technology. It is my contention as a retired businessman that the major camera/lens manufacturers are using this psychosis to stay alive. The camera phone killed the camera companies bread and butter of small consumer cameras. Going mirrorless not only requires a photographer to buy a new body, but surprise, surprise, they have to buy into a whole new system. The psychosis of "latest and greatest" is the antithesis of the common sense approach of "if it ain't broke don't fix it". If a photographer can make money with what he has there is no logical reason to move to mirrorless. For me personally, the mirrorless thing is a boon. I can get tons of pro level DSLR gear for pennies on the dollar.
You have a completely different set of questions to ask yourself whether you're a pro or a hobbyist. When people (beginners) ask me which camera they need, I have started asking what tool they need to drive a nail in a piece of wood. -"Is a stone enough?", -"well, yes.. but it's much nicer with a hammer". After that the set of questions start to get slightly more nuanced. The right tool for the particular job is always the best, a really expensive gold plated "ultrahammer 3000" might be cool as a hobbyist but gives next to no advantage, and a stone might do the job just fine and cost nothing.
love the distinction, very helpful
Yes I agree with your point especially as a business decision. I suppose the only argument would be how much certain QoL upgrades would be worth it with mirrorless even as a business. I'm only a hobbyist but as a professional I don't know if I'd ever want to deal with micro focus adjustment again and I remember that issue as it drove me mad when I used DSLRs. That and if you dual shoot video I think there's probably enough to justify moving to mirrorless, despite the cost.
I would love to see your camera and lens collection :)
I use a Nikon D810 for the last 6 years, bought it used too. Never let me down and works perfectly for every work I do.
My biggest reasons for going Mirrorless are 1) My 5d Iv broke down and my 5Diii backup had a major repair and I didn't trust it as my primary camera. 2) I bought the R5s for the VR lens and its silent shutter. All of which not only paid for themselves, but also allowed me more freedom. Camera Blimps are a pain in the ass to change lenses and make setting changes.
I think you're absolutely right about the business side of having a DSLR and minimizing investment like this. But there is 2 things I believe you are missing. Some of us haven't been a photographer for as long as you, and sometimes a new piece of gear is quite enjoyable, or like a guilty pleasure to have after an intense period. Also investment is quite important to just pay less taxes, In Switzerland, if I'm in bracket above because I invested or spent less, I might have to pay 15-20K more tax on the year.
I have a salary job where photography is a big part of my occupation. I need to do copy work at different times throughout the year. On your advice, even if you didn't know you were giving it, I purchased a 5dsr for the copy work. The images are amazing, and it saved me a fortune as I already had the lenses. For my other work, it is an R3 all the way.
I think it makes no sense in the artistic point of view either. I just looked at a fashion shoot with Mario Testino & Taylor Swift, in 2014 for British Vogue, so big money involved and need a perfect result.
He shot it completely in natural light with a 5D Mark III. The day I'll be able to produce the same quality of work with the same gear, maybe buying a better expensive camera would be possible, but like you said, then why buy something else? just renting a phase one on advertising jobs when needed, makes more business sense.
Buying a R5 today on credit just because the af is better will not give me a good quality of work, in the contrary.
Thanks to all of your precedent videos I understand that now and I regret wasting so much money in the last 5 years for nothing. I could have rent a studio instead and do a lot of test shoots...
I talk about Mario Testino, but they all used the 5D Mark III for big editorials and campaigns, Inez & Vinoodh, Patrick Demarchelier, Camilla Akrans etc.
I actually think you're wrong here Scott. Allow me to explain. I used to shoot weddings and events with Pentax*. Clack clack goes the shutter at 4.4fps and the buffer is filled at 13-17 frames in. Clients can get shirky with the amount of noise your camera (and lenses) make. I also CANNOT upskill past a certain point. I did great work with these cameras, super shots, but if I am honest with myself I knew I missed moments that were no fault of my own (skill level), I cannot predict the future and what unfolds when humans mingle and get together, no matter how much 'in the zone' I am and try and leave a buffer safety margin. What you're saying is akin to those saying that because great film shots exist then there's no need for anything better?! Which is madness, because along with the great film shots captured were MASSES of duds. This becomes a battle of keeper rates in my industry.
Since moving to the stacked sensor of my Fuji XH2S (which was a drop in IQ, dynamic range and resolution from Pentax) my business is flourishing. I am able to work in theatres, musicals and orchestra rehearsals/concerts where shooting utterly silent under artificial light without banding is helping me capture moments and get referrals. Having the option of 10, 20, 30 and 40fps with what feels like an endless buffer removes one mental constraint to the days work.
I am in the business of capturing moments. Not food. Some tools are just better for the job than others. I see no reason for you to switch to mirrorless for your line of work.
Don't mistake the fact that because you know guys that shoot film and make money, and other people doing good work with DSLR's as a conclusion per se. Since picking a better tool I have MADE MORE MONEY, because my industry is also competitive, they like the guy shooting who makes no sound (ninja shooters!), I like being the guy that can burst and capture that EXACT moment that becomes portfolio worthy and gives you an edge over competition (I can even demonstrate this to couples on the meet and greet, show 30 images of the confetti throwing post ceremony shot and highlight why THIS SHOT is the best of all). The AF tools are no joke, it's not just about making it easier for me (which is true and welcome and aids motivation), but the fact the AF aid also gets the shots that a single af point or shifting it around with a dpad or joystick simply takes too long and the moment is gone... (compositions are significantly faster to get).
The industry has been working hard on areas of AF for folks like me for sure, but its not all about AF, my XH2S can focus stack too, not that this is a tool I use much in my line of work, but I'm sure you would agree that time is money, so if it takes less time for the focus stack shot to be made then that is actually good business!
I think you're showing a little bit of how out of touch you've become with genres outside your specialty. It's competitive out there, shots matter, keeper rates matter, sound (or no sound) matters and most of all having tech to assist the tog frees up their skill set to concentrate on the stuff that really matters like composition, light, mood, moments, expressions.
But I've said it before, if I was a Landscape photographer I would have seen no reason to change to MILC either, I was doing fine with my Pentax (better even) than what currently exists. Cameras are just tools, get the right tool for job and you stand to make more money.
*granted Pentax was never the right tool for this line of work in the first place, but you get the point.
I totally agree with you, it's a matter of wanting and needing
I completely agree with you, I picked up a mirrored Sony a37 for about $130.00 U.S. and it is turning out AMAZING photos at 16.5 MP. It does everything I need it to. A great camera for a Real Bearded Santa on a budget.
Love the content. Would love to see your camera collection
This is sound advice even for us hobbyists, gear acquisition syndrome is real and I need to be really truthful with myself as to why I would change gear. I'd LOVE a Fuji GFX or Hasselblad X2D but my DSLR does everything I need. There's nothing wrong with wanting a nicer thing because it's nicer.. but I feel I really need to accept that before taking the plunge.
Definitely would love a video on your hobbyist collection!
I would too!
I held literally the same position. And than somehow i got roped into trying a z9 for a week… i returned it after 3 days because i wanted to buy mine asap.
It’s not that i needed it. My d780 was the best camera i ever had and was enjoying using it. I took it bc it makes my job unbearably more easy (im a concert photographer) and i can focus more on the quality of deliverables, more so than covering all of the service photos i am required to do on shoots like these.
As with any business, you have to know what your costs are and how to control them. I think that I agree with your logic.
Agree with you analisys, Scott. That´s why you are a Pro and not amateur.
Interesting discussion here. I somehow knew your answer would be cost which makes total sense. Professional photographers don't have to have the latest cameras, even potentially when talking about image quality in real world usage. Funnily enough, I moved from a DSLR in 2019 to a mirrorless so I could use modern, native manual lenses with better focusing aids (plus the camera is quite a bit smaller). I moved to a more technologically advanced camera just so I could ignore the advanced autofocus features and use it with manual lenses!