Borderlands' Returning Vault Hunter Problem
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- čas přidán 11. 09. 2024
- In Borderlands one of the coolest things that the player can experience is when all the games previous Vault hunters return to the game as NPC's, but this moment comes at a cost.
At this point there are so many Vault Hunters that it's almost impossible to have them all return and be of any note in the story or side content.
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I want to see Tina and Torgue have a competition on who can make the best explosion
Would be hype af
@@Cashew1405bro joltz commented your vid???!
OMG COOOOOK 🗣️🔥🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥🗣️🗣️
Well that would probably be the end of the world lol
What if Torgue hired Tina, and she created her own line of Unique or Legendary Torgue weapons?
the "they are broke and take all jobs" could have been fixed by "they are on the top of the notoriety wave, they happily just do whatever it looks funny to them, and at least a few that are clearly lost bets"
Would've made a lot more sence then what we got tbh
You cooked on this video. They messed up a lot of the returns later on. Sal and Axton being broke is also fkin crazy 😭
"Sure, all the guns I sold during my previous adventure were worth billions of dollars, but. Inflation, you know?"
You misspelled “lazy” 😂
My Axton and Sal with capped out money inventory full of best meta guns. Where did all my stuff go? Gearbox did them dirty. Plus you're telling me Axton just didn't do interspace bounty hunting for money? While Salvador didn't just become a bodyguard or something but Zero did? Salvador was a walking tank lol.
@@SirLacombes Sal may be too unstable for bodyguard work, but he'd easily find work as a mercenary or a bounty hunter for dangerous targets, just like Axton.
I can make an educated guess for how they each ended up in that position. Axton got kinda famous and probably spent more money than he received working while dating (re. Dragon Keep what he would spend his money on). He likely didn’t really know how to handle money going from his family to the military to Pandora . It’s a common thing that happens in the entertainment industry for people to overspend to their detriment.
As for Sal, he spent his time doing arena fights. And likely lost whatever money he had gambling on fights. We know he has a problem with making bad bets through one of the closing conversations in Arms Race about why his bookie had laughed. Another thing to consider is Sal is going from a world of scarcity to a galaxy of everything he could ever want is available all the time. He’s impulsive (steroids) and he probably bought stuff he didn’t need because he could.
Some people just aren’t good with money, and even more so with a lot of money.
Zer0 Is kind the only fine one in my opinion, simply because the relationship between he and Reese is pre-established by the time of BL3 and it feels less like zer0 is shackled in one place and more on call kind thing, he can go out and hunt for whatever challenges and thrills he wants but can be called back for atlas business/sent out for atlas business due to being loyal to atlas and specifically Reese means he.
The other 2 though, Aurelia and Maya suck ass, Aurelia has all her Pre-sequal development thrown out into space so they could have her be the eden-6 bad guy and get killed off and Maya has her planet reduced to a single level, is shackled the the worst character in the series and dies because of them (at least we got some closure in the fantastic fustercluck)
Haha, "out into space" I get it, because Pre-Sequel took place in outer space. Ha.
"Zero has a crush-"
NO stop! I don't want to know any more character assassinations!
Zer0s head: UwU
To be fair bl2 zero's entire personality was "mysterious assassin guy". Bl3 gave him more character for better or worse
...how is him having a crush....character assassination?? XD Did something in Borderlands 2 say OTHERWISE?? because I sure as hell dont remember it lmao
@@Myrathosghost
Honestly it kinda is character assassination
In BL2 we have have *zero* clue if zer0 is human, robot, or alien
(He only has eight fingers)
Well now he most likely human
Name an alien in the franchise that found human features attractive?
Why would an assassin robot be programmed to feel love?
Imagine how absolutely in shambles the KOTOR fandom would be if HK-47 just randomly was able to fall in love without warning.
Him staying with Atlas because of Lorelei is a weak motivation at best and his desire for a challenge should have driven him mad by now. Especially considering that it was his ENTIRE motivation finding the vault in bl2.
What happened to the others he worked for/with?
Remember One from Wam Bam Island?
Did Gearbox just forget that entire dlc just like they did the entire presequel story?
There's so many different directions they could have gone with zer0 and somehow the writers in their infinite skill of trying to make the worst story possible... picked the most boring one possible.
@@Myrathosghost he has 4 fingers like a simpsons character, and it's a mystery whether he's an alien, robot, alien robot or who knows what who's only natural urge is to kill, giving him a crush on a human is insane, completely out of character.
For some reason BL3 disrespects most of BL2's vault hunters.
Zero- Working for Reese, but otherwise just doing his usual thing.
Krieg- Isolating himself to try and fix his broken mind.
Maya- Dies for Ava's development (Which she didn't get.)
Gaige- Wedding planner.
Axton- Broke game show host 1.
Salvador- Broke game show host 2.
I mean Gaige being a wedding planner for Hammerlock is kind of adorable considering she looked up to him
zero for me is very weird considering he was notorious for political assassination and then dude just decide to become a corpo dog for reese.
@@Akkihanatbh him being a Rhys’s second hand man makes sense considering TFTB, he probably just wanted to do something slightly different
The new writers hate BL2 because the writing was so good, and they cant match it, thats why they try hard to diss it in any way they can. This shit is noticeable in many reboots, star wars sequel trilogy is good example. This practice is very prevalent in modern writing culture, because it is very toxic.
@@dejountemurraythefutureg.o9040dude was so burnt out he decided to go to Pandora fucking pandora just to have some enjoyment him going with rhys is somewhat on character because the mother fucker was burnt out being an assassin him chilling with rhys and acting as a bodyguard might as well be retirement
If they bring back Moze or FL4k and not Zane I might crash out 💀💀💀
*metal pipe falling sound effect
i'd love them to bring back fl4k as he my favorite character out of the roaster, but zane has too much charm and personality to not come back or to be treated like salvador and axton
Considering FL4k's background, Hammerlock might be included in said return. Both could be on Eden-6. Imagine FL4K being Hammerlock's contact in a Big Game hunt.
I really like fl4k I think he can be pretty funny like when he nonchalantly dropped “I now crave the blood of battle” or something like that to his master
Let’s just hope that ALL Vault Hunters even Claptrap will be playable. Imagine the next game being so big it’ll take more than just 4 hunters, it’ll take all 13 (Claptrap included cuz he was once a vault hunter)
What sucks is that Aurelia could have been kept and not been a villain if they just wrote in a scorned sibling of Wainwright's who was trying to usurp ownership of the Jakobs manor and whatnot. Hell, Aurelia could have helped us given that her brother would have also been in this new villain's sights and she'd probably not want him dead.
Hell again, we could have mostly kept the Aurelia boss fight but have it end non-lethally as she stands down and admits she just wanted to fight us for fun, we'd still know she's kind of an eccentric asshole but she would still retain her "redeemed" status from the end of TPS.
This!! They just wiped who Aurelia was! She went wasn’t evil per se. she’s just a bitch. I hate what they did to hee
NGL if they basically retconned her death in 3 and gave an excuse for how she survived, like she didnt actually die, she just turned to Ice and thawed out later, I would probably be okay with that.
they could have used her mother as the Villain
I@@rh0dr1I hope they do this with Nisha too, she was such a good character, and it was a shame she was killed off before she had any character development
Aurelia's Character "Development" had me FUMING man - I loved seeing her go from 'rich snob on vacation' to all disgruntled and conflicted in the Pre-Sequel. But ALL THAT was just completely ignored for BL3, just so we can have a familiar face for the boss fight! Such a waste!
My biggest issue with Borderlands 3 as a whole was the feeling that the whole time I played I was just a spectator to the plot, it didn't feel like I actually had any impact, NPCs didn't react differently depending on which character you chose like they often did in TPS and we just simply didn't show up in cutscenes. This makes makes me feel like there is no real chemistry or synergy between the BL3 PCs and the rest of the cast, Borderlands 2 also kind of had this issue in my opinion. I feel like the playable characters never get their chance to shine until the game after they are playable and I think that really has to be solved.
All that being said, I do think that despite basically being excluded from the plot, the playable characters themselves in BL3 were a lot of fun to play as, not just mechanically but their personalities shine through with there reactions to stuff and their witty one liners with Zane being my personal favourite.
As far as characters I really want to see coming back for BL4, Brick and Mordecai having a more major role along with Tina would be great, I think they were really wasted in BL3, I'm happy for them to still be the B team but actually give them some screen time, it really felt like they were thrown in just to please fans. I definitely want Zane and Zero back simply because I love the idea of a more quiet character (Zero duhh) slowly opening up and learning more about him and Zane is just awesome. Amara is a given as well... Siren. I'd love to see CL4P-TP also have a more important role, maybe his subroutines come back and he is actually able to be useful. Krieg is a tricky one, I'm content with his story being left of as is but at the same time I love him as a character and wouldn't complain if he came back.
FIX SALVADOR
It's funny how Athena appeared in all Borderlands games (even fking new tales) except 3 and Wonderlands.
No she has a brief cameo in 3 being the new Hyperion ceo during a Rhys cutscene
@@PsychMeds_Cjayy Thats tales 2
Considering how BL3 character assassinated Aurelia and made Maya into a mindless simp for Lilith before having her murdered by a metrosexual moron I think it’s preferable Athena stayed far away from it.
She wasn't in 2, was she?
My personal problem with returning VHs is that they always seem so...weak as in my mind all of VHs at the end of their games are at max level for each respectively. But with how there power is protrayed in cutscenes it just makes me believe that these aren't the same Vault hunters i played as. Especially Lilith.
Borderlands 3 really is a "win in the game, lose in the cutscene" kinda game huh
@Cashew1405 yeah, back before borderlands 3 was announced i was hoping they'd at least push past the restrictions of not putting the VHs in cutscenes to rectify the choices made in BL2. But that seemed like a fool's errand.
Imo best way to think of it is that the Vault Hunters are only roughly as strong as the minimum level needed to beat the game (excluding the Siren wank).
Like if Zane shows up in 4 he wouldn't be a cracked out running about turning people into ice cubes, and Moze doesn't have an Iron Bear that could solo an entire army.
@xdragoonzero0 that's a fair statement though I find myself still somewhat frustrated in regards to certain VHs straight-up being in ass in combat (in cut scenes) when they realistically (within their universe) shouldn't be or being completely unwilling to pick up any firearm. (Only one can say for sure doesn't need is Zer0 as he's extremely lethal with just his sword and holo) like come on Lilith you of ALL people shouldn't be ass in close quarters combat.
It's probably pretty hard to reconcile players' expectations of their legendary toting OP10 Unstoppable murder machine VH with one that needs to work in any kind of story. People often forget that many of the feats our VHs perform in games is non-canon. Respawning is non canon. Some creative liberties have to be taken, both to make the series playable as a game, and to make it work as a narrative
Zer0 being into Lorelei is the most OOC fanfiction moment for Zer0 as a character. Sticking with Rhys could make sense if properly explained. For example he and Rhys get along, so he's a safe bet to work for, and Rhys wanting to rebuild Atlas sets Zer0 up to fight people. Other Corporations are likely to pick a fight with the returning, smaller Atlas (like what happens in 3).
However Zer0 being into Lorelei directly contradicts what is established in Borderlands 2.
Combat is my love / Brutal violence, my partner / I need no one else
-Zer0
Not a vault hunter but Mr. Torgue. Borderlands is not complete without air guitar solos and MOTHERFUCKING EXPLOSIONS! WOO WAH WAH WAH 'sick air guitar riff*
His role was far too small in bl3. He needs to be a priority character to give side quests to
I loved seeing him and clap trap in wonderlands
Zer0 openly stated in that BL2 Valentine’s Day Headhunter pack that he *only* seeks the thrill of combat, and has no desire for romance.
While in real life, we’ve had people change their tunes over the “right” person appearing, I still have to call skagshit on this.
It would be one thing if Zer0 found Rhys and Lorelei “fun” and gave him a purpose after the BL2 team split and he grew bored of being alone to *then* develop feelings… but just this alone feels weak.
If they're going to do it, it needs SOOOOO much more screen time and development before anyone's really going to belive it.
My theory on why Zer0 stuck around is because keeping Rhys alive is a challenge on its own. The guy was a danger magnet before he became a ceo and only increased his chances 1000% after taking on Atlas. So the challenge became being a counter-assassin since being an assassin was too easy. Yes, I do spend a lot of time thinking about these things, why do you ask?
@@sevenember3332Rhys trying to restart a big corporation also makes him a big target, and as we see in BL3 can result in some conflict.
I mean, the character in question is described as a "bloody badass" in their opening cut scene.
I would feel like Zero wants to fight her, romantically.
It's such a shame the BL2 cast didn't get the same treatment as the BL1 cast. I think I speak for everyone when I say, wouldn't it be a hell of a lot more interesting to have missions fighting along side some of the BL2 cast? Getting to see Salvador gunzerking around just like Brick did in BL2. Axton could have had an even more badass version of his turret that he made since we last saw. Maya could have potentially gained new Siren abilities and Lilith is teaching her how to tap into more of her powers. I could go on, but for some of these guys to be relegated to just a voice in the background is a complete waste of potential. We spent so much time with the BL2 characters and built up a lot of love for them while waiting for BL3 and we just didn't really get to see the squad and it was sad. RIP Maya, you were too based to live, so Gearbox had to kill you off.
Bl3 is just a well of missed potential
I truly believe it was identity politics.. The game was shifted completely female centric.. In two you had a mix of people, men and women. In 3 they got rid of the male characters....Mordica and brick was there for basically 1 mission. Tina was pushed out the way for AVA. Gauge got the Hamerlock DLC which was too much imo. Axton and Sal didnt even get character models only character cards.. you can see they were added last min. They took out Zed and had only Tannis... The only men in there was Reis... character assassinated to be a Btch, his friend, and Zane (thank god).. Its clear they wanted to shift it especally when it was written around 15' the when the MeToo was strong
@@frederickdawson2253 and the worst thing? Maya was an actual interesting and cool female character. Too complex for the writers to actually handle well cause the writing team pretty much consists of fanfic artists who's only personality trait is "who am I attracted too as of now" and also upsetting how they didn't write krieg to come wipe house with the two wanna be twitch streamers. If someone who calmed my poop train loving soul died to a damn twitch streamer with no dignity. Nothing is stopping me from coming at them. You'd think he'd have more to do with the story instead of hiding out in a cave somewhere. But of course. The writers weren't talented enough to actually develop his character directly too.
Sal and Axton didn't grab the Bearcat and Tunguska and had to buy ammo at OP10.
Simple as that.
I never bat an eye that Gaige was a wedding planner, was too happy to see her again. but now that I think of it .. yeah thats an odd decision =P
to be honest i just yhink she changes professions all the time to make a living and she decided to take up wedding planning because she heard that one of her friends is planing to have a wedding.
She tried pure STEM work and found it boring plus she still has that massive bounty on her head. I want to know how she got that job in the first place with her circumstances.
@@sevenember3332Knowing her backstory, her dad probably. The guy needs to be a Vault Hunter, since he single handedly distracted authorities to let Gaige escape and then later somehow took out an assassin that was after her.
I disagree about Gaige, becoming some drunk wine cat lady sucks and is not something I'd hope in the terms of character "development". God I hate how 2's cast was treated oh and screw Ava, worst character in the series.
Gaige isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination but compared to all the other bl2 characters, she got off pretty good
I wish the shotgun that was a reference to gaige was more op.
And yeah the writers f^%ked up big time. She had potential. That maliwan takedown could've had gaige in it. The chick that stole gaige's deathtrap blueprints works for maliwan, the revenge could've been soo good.
Gaige was my favorite Hunter back in BL2 and I honestly liked how she's been portrayed in BL3's DLC 2. But....I honestly didn't remember Holloway worked for Maliwan. Is it because some of the service robots (clearly based on Deathtrap) are used by Maliwan? @@revearain7692
"becoming some drunk wine cat lady" When you put it like this, you start to realize she's probably a self-insert for a certain writer.
Second worst.
Claptrap still exists.
Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of how Bl3 handled the returning characters. I was under the impression that Aurelia was on our side after watching the trailer all those years ago, but when bl3 came out, she was just a rich bitch you had to kill to progress the story. Wasn't a huge fan.
Thinking back, I don't think she was mentioned again after Hammerlocks cutscene right after the fight either 🤔
As a Aurelia main from the presequel I so over it (Im not)
The ending of pre sequel saying to gather all the vault hunters for a possible war just to then realize “wow we can’t possibly include all these characters” is such poor planning it’s stupid.
I think there is an argument to be made that they absolutely could've used all those characters, It's mainly that TPS and Bl3 had different writting teams and Bl3's team did not respect the Pre-sequel's story or ending.
Well the war the watcher teased isn’t the war that’s in borderlands 3. The war is still coming
Lilith showed up again in BL2 and that was cool.
But then she just _didn't leave._
I think the Axton and Sal thing wouldve been better if Axton was just doing the show for fame because he already had the glory of killing jack and Sal doing it for money actually makes a bit of sense to me because he seemingly racks up a lot of debt by drinking all the booze and skipping out on his tab so if they had just mentioned that Sal needed to pay back some people he swindled that would be fine by me.
The Maya and Auralia appearances were definitely the worst, especially Maya since she was far more beloved by fans than Auralia. I mean, she only died because she decided to chokehold Troy which doesnt even make sense because her whole power is holding people in the air. If she had just phaselocked him he never couldve leeched her. Even if they wanted to do that though, they couldve had him just steal her powers and not her life like what they did to lilith earlier on and then when troy is killed maya decides to give her powers to ava or something. That way ava gets her progression without having to kill off a character that everybody loves.
Alternatively, if they really want her to actually die, they couldve had Maya return as a star-wars-force-ghost-esque being since she was by far the most spiritual of the sirens, spending all her time studying and researching the history of the sirens with an order of monks. Perhaps she couldve found a way to live on as a metaphysical entity after death, that way ava still gets her powers and maya still gets to hang around with krieg or something
i think killing maya was because troy leached her and not tyreen as she was an actuall siren and troy wasn't, he was surviving by leaching tyreen and that was the thing that kept him alive, and leaching maya made him an individual and he no longer had to rely on tyreen, and that is why we only see troy on eden-6 because he no longer needs to leach tyreen to survive.
i know it doesen't make the situation better but a surprisingly large amount of people doesen't seem to know about that.
@@timeless.racoon7518 I know why they did it. Its just the way they did it that was incredibly stupid. Plus, troy getting his own powers and not needing tyreen set him up perfectly to ditch her entirely or maybe even leech her to death and become the main antagonist after she's been calling him a parasite his whole life. That would've been an interesting twist . But no, he just gets a little sassier towards her, that's all.
Brick and Mordecai were only BL3 for like 2 seconds and on Eden-6 of all places.
They killed Maya off just Ava could have the Phaselock, she's gonna need something more than a miracle for BL4 to make fans like her.
They ruined Axton, he's my favourite and they ruined him 😭
They were also on Pandora in the Splinterlands with Tina, but they were all criminally underused
Screw Ava and everything she stands for. I demand justice for my guys Mordecai and Axton as well as everyone else that was done dirty.
I know I said this before, but Ava didn't get Maya killed, the vault hunters never being present in the cutscenes and the Calypsos getting everything handed to them did.
(And now that I think about it, the VHs weren't present when Jack killed Roland! I'm noticing a pattern...)
Jack directly talked to you so we can argue youre character was in pure shock
Honestly They should copy Remnant 2 and add the characters we play as in cutscenes it I'll help the plot a LOT.
Well during Roland's death you're viewing it directly from your vault hunter's perspective the entire time
The Vault Hunters were present when Roland died. Jack performed a sneak attack and put a control collar on Lilith, ordering her to destroy you. She uses her remaining strength to teleport you away instead.
The cutscene took your presence into account and Jack acted to prevent you from killing him.
Jack killed Roland literally inches away from the vault hunter and we stand there and do nothing.
But heaven help you if you just stepped out of a vault on the other side of a dead vault monster for a cut scene I guess
Here's hoping bl4 brings back Steve
TRUUUEE!
Heyoooo!
Heyo.
How the hell they forgot him
Athena has to return out of any character, her exclusion from 3 entirely was criminal
Im glad she wasnt there because i feel like she would've died. 3 killed off too many characters (MAYA)
She returned 😅. She became the CEO of Hyperion 😂😂😂😂
@@Assassino275 yeah, but after 3. If she showed up in 3, she probably would've been killed off instead
@@undeadinside3571 I think her getting killed is a better alternative to getting her character getting butchered
@@Assassino275 true, but they didnt do either yet. We need Anthony Pitchford to write again... he was great for 2
A man in Kriego City is trapped in Borderlands 3! Build the helicopter!
As a main Elemental Gaige player, seeing the little chaotic, arnachy-focused DLC character return as a bloody wedding planner for Hammelock of all people (for the record, she had a short crush on him back in BL2, regretting his XY orientation), that was a nail in the coffin for me. When you play Gaige with me you're pretty much rampaging all over the map with fireworks all around you from exploding barrels, melting bots and various electrical EMP shots from a very colourful DT. She also yells like a mad banshee at the slightest DOT. In BL3, she's rambling at a bar pretty much all time long. I could feel the years stacking up to the point she'll end up like that cat woman in Family Guy. Dam. Talk about a cold shower and a massive troll from Gearbox. Am I expected to laugh?
Like many things in Bl3, I think the idea could work, but the execution was flawed. Gaige is the youngest vault hunter we see (Ava isn't real), so of all of them it makes the most sense that she would have some conflict finding out what she wants in life. If they had something like that as a plot point along with some dialog about her wanting Hammerlock to be happy I think that could've made her situation make a bit more sense.
While Fiona and Rhys aren’t in main borderlands games as vault hunters, they do turn to vault hunters in tales and were some of the best written but Fiona hasn’t been seen and was only hinted at since Tales from the borderland, and they absolutely butchered Rhys’ character in BL3
Still mad that they killed maya without having kreig there. Their echologs were the only parts of good writing in BL3
That was kinda resolved when it comes to BL4 , out of the BL3 vault hunters only Zane and Amara have any notable connection to the world and thats mostly reserved for Zane , Amara is a siren even though she poped up out of nowhere she will be important Zane however was teased since BL2 from his brother and he seems to have connections all over the universe to warrant having him coming back in a meaningfull way instead of " hey you know this guy hes back and now he scrubs toilets in the sanctuary hope you like him " , until now every main BL game has had a Flynt and we know Zane has a sister so there is 1 more Flynt outhere , Zane also has connections with Zer0 he is even speculated to be the one who killed Zer0's assassin in the BL2 DLC as Zer0's friend from the past , he is also wanted dead by everyone including Athena who runs Hyperion which extends to the rest of the Sanctuary crew unless something else is shown.
Why is Zane wanted by Athena? There's nothing that would suggest that apart from speculation.
@@Cashew1405 From his Echo in Sanctuary , right before Zane came to Pandora ( Start of BL3) he was being chased by assassins under contract , when he asked from who one of the names of the companies that want him dead is Hyperion , Zane worked for Hyperion during Jacks era in the Handsome Jackpot but he became wanted when Athena took over Hyperion
20 characters isn’t really that many look at bl2 sanctuary if you replaced even half the unused people you would have space for at least 20 more characters for quests or something. And honestly you don’t even need to give them voice lines (would be better if they did) just have all the groups from the games run different factions together so you could have bl1 fire hawk/crimson crew that focuses on learning about sirens and bl2 a mercenary/psycho group that focuses on technology and bl3 a group of nomadic raiders or something. (I’m not sure for 3 since I hated the game and never replayed it)
Honestly, i just want a borderlands game where they bring a lot of old playable characters back as playable characters. I would love to play Athena or Timothy again in a game with endgame. Or maybe BL1 vault hunters with new and updated kits.
I actually dont think that Ava caused Maya's death. It was the writers. They came into the story and killed Maya directly. Such a tragedy.
Well... yeah lol. The writers cause everything by extension
You joke about this, but that really is the case. The writers created the limited number of sirens concept, and because of that if new sirens are to be made they have to kill off the older ones. Hell in this game alone we see 6 sirens. In the end only 3 are still alive (haven’t played DLC so I’ve got no clue if more pop up there). They know they need to kill off these characters because if they don’t they can’t have new playable siren characters. Sadly Maya just happened to be one of those sirens so now she has to die.
@@metronicmagician1816Except that Bl3 also established that Siren powers are inherited and are also limited to those small pool of powers, meaning that there's no reasons to kill Maya unless you want a new playable Siren with Maya's exact powers. Plus Steele was killed off in BL1 so there was already 2 available Siren powers for new characters (Steele's and whatever the 6th one is).
@@xdragoonzero0 yeah, but that still requires you to keep killing off these characters. If they want to make new ones for anything (villains, heros, side characters, etc) then the old ones will have to go. Ava became that new character, and functionally Maya was the only one you could really kill off at that moment. Tannis was hiding it, Lilith was too important (and had her powers eaten), Tireene was the big bad, and you were playing one. If they wanted a young and fledgling Siren as well as show off the power transfer of a siren then Maya was the only one you could kill off without completely filling the roster. Hell I’d almost guess the intention was to make Ava the next game’s playable siren before people really started hating her.
At least as it stands now (if every death is real) there are only 3 known remaining so a siren death shouldn’t be necessary for the next game.
The problem is that the writers are so obsessed with making their 'new' characters look cool that they feel the need to lobotomize the returning characters just to make the new ones look better than the previous stars
That's why the second game swears up and down that Wilhelm (somehow) managed to defeat EVERYONE FROM THE FIRST GAME without getting so much as a fucking scratch but when the time rolled around for the big bad boss fight in the game they reveal he's JUST ANOTHER Hyperion Loader that Mordecai and Brick would have wasted LONG before he even REMOTELY became a problem
Or why the third game can't be fucked to remember the Sentinels ending of the Pre-sequel
This is kinda why people theorized before 3 came out that we'd have all the vault hunters and some new ones for a "war" the guardian hinted at in presequal having everyone in the game without alienating any of them. But that was obviously wrong
Gearbox can take the easy way out on one or two of the vault hunters and make them like Crazy Earl, put their face on a computer screen or something to interact with for certain type of missions so no real need for character model work.
And to branch off that comment more, they do NOT need to make big story beats or anything to do with the older Vault Hunters, they can just be simple quest givers for small pocket areas or whatever similar to past games or like Moxxi in BL3 during the main game. Either way it shouldn't be that difficult to give the fans some more love or at least more than 5-6 returning Vault Hunters in the base game. I do think having some spotlights in DLCs again like BL3 could be good or even great but not necessary unless the load of the base game is too heavy.
I also think a good balance is needed and I believe can be achieved by not making the old Vault Hunters the spotlight or maybe separate everyone into groups and say they're on an important mission and have them pop up at the very end of the game or the second to last main story mission. The player(s) themselves need to feel important, feel like the main focus, and not rely on nostalgia to carry the key story
While that is the easiest option, a Lot of people were pissed that Brick and Mordecai were relegated to sidequest duty after appearing in only a handful of major story beats.
The best I can come up with at the moment is some sort of branching story, where your choices directly affect which group of characters you align with and having that gang to roll with (putting more RPG into the looter-shooter), but that means the game would be significantly bigger in scope.
@@mothichorror446 if that's possible then that would be amazing and honestly the best of both/all worlds for the fandom! But what I was referring to wasn't missions involving them directly, but the Vault Hunter's, themselves, being the quest givers while they go off and do their own thing if possible. Think Borderlands 2 when the player had to go get explosives for the bridge to get to the end game and Brick and Mordecai did their own thing (beyond the player) and they eventually meet up at the end before the credits or lightly during the final mission. Gearbox could do this exact thing for each Vault Hunter they choose to have side content for, if multiple missions then maybe the final mission they wrap around to aiding the player or something maybe a optional side boss they could help with. To be honest they could pair up Vault Hunters like Brick and Mordecai to lower the total count of side missions or activities needed for one single past Vault Hunter and give those not used DLC coverage for story/mission ideas.
The smartest thing would be to not play favorites if this idea is too heavy for Gearbox or whoever to deliver and instead split everyone up and we (the player) just get echo logs and echo communication between groups of the older Vault Hunters and instead just have the very last mission or last couple involve all the Vault Hunters available to aid in the defeat of the big bad. They pop in like Lilith and Roland did during BL2 and help free Angel, they do something similar but Avengers End Game level of people or break it up and have them help throughout the game like Maya (kinda) did in Borderlands 3 with the ride along mission. Either way I see it being an option that could easily be utilized both story and gameplay wise. Knowing Gearbox they typically under deliver so just making a decent replayable story is what I person would want, instead of dragging out a story or making it worse by trying to include every Vault Hunter if they can't figure it out
Listen I just want my boy Axton to be apart of the main story and hopefully give him a little more personality. Like make him a little bit more of the serious one of the group, but he has his quirks that make him stand out instead of just soldier boy
Preach it brother!
We Axton mains deserved better.
Bidding for the housing crisis starts at 1.cent
My idea, most of the playable characters from pass games do return minus 2 in a new mode that will be DLC. The Vault Tournament Hosted by Moxie across. It takes place after the events of BL4 and all living, and partially living or successors will be in this tournament to gain the most points from killing, supporting, looting, and showing off your abilities or completing side objectives well waves of enemies and recreation of some of the most important pass foes. For the 2 who aren’t playable or have a successor are Roland and Nisha, Maya will be played but a more shy Ava, Aurelia becomes a frost Zombie that Hammerlock couldn’t kill because he does want his sister back and finally see eye to eye, and Wilhel a Robot recreation with no memories beside him bounty hunting and now vault hunting. All characters are playable with more balance up to date skill trees, some characters have abilities reworked a bit like Lilith having fiery effects, Axton having Roland shield upgrade, and Claptrap Vaulthunter.exe only have 4 of the better abilities with the great ones being in the skill trees, also all characters have 2 skill trees in this mode and max level is 40 by the time the challenge is over as you start at level 1 and level up each round. Not all the characters have to be in the story but they all come back to prove top dog.
well the reason axton and sal are kinda broke is because Lilith is taking all the ccredit, remember what ava said in the funeral scene that made it in the game? "you saved pandora, you killed handsome jack youre supposed to be the firehawk!" everyone was told that lilith was the person who did it but they have no proof to rpove that axton and bl2 vault hunters did it
I don't think the credit matters in this case. They still canonically opened a Vault full of loot, found the lost treasure of the samds and were incredibly successful mercenaries. There is no reason they should be broke in bl3
@@Cashew1405 yeah true i gues his new us were too high, died to much tryna fight sal (what was he thinkin)
@@Cashew1405 Lottery winners going broke fast actually tracks. Happens all the time. So I really don't see an issue with them being down, out, and looking for a payday. That said, BL3 story, characters, plot, and DLC's were just lackluster and had a general sense of "we're not sure what we're doing but we're going to do it anyways" with a side of nostalgia bait.
i think tina will be old enough in the next game to be a playable vault hunter, ofc shes with B-Team but they can really take the plot anywhere. i think they could get so creative with her skills and her personality. I definitely think there will be a significant playerbase that would love the opportunity to play as her as well
Can’t wait for the Movie! It’s gonna win all kinds of awards! 🏆🏅🥇😅
It won the worst movie of the year award and the worst videogame adaptation award. That last one was really hard to claim, but they got it
It also feels like if they make a new game, it’ll feel even harder to believe that there’s a new big bad that can stop the 5th generation vault hunters since there’s SO many seasoned vault hunters still around and having ties to the crimson raiders. Like, handsome Jack was the ceo of Hyperion, so they topped it with a galaxy wide cult. How can they top that? They already scrapped the whole “prepare for war, collect all your allies” idea from pre-sequel since some didn’t even show, so it seems like they either need to go grounded, or suddenly bring back the eridians and make THEM the bad guys.
I think they'll have to bring back the eridians and go for the war plot. It's all they have left at this point
Yeah but how the Crimson Raider geht a big Army together? I mean after bl3 they have a big Army. These loader Bots from that handsome Jackpot, so the big war can be the next Borderlands.
I wanna see Sal come back in Marcus’ position like as the ammunitions and gun shops
Do you really expect the Legendary Hoarder to give up his guns?
Honestly... and I know this may be a weird idea to toss out there... I'd like a returning Vault Hunter to be a DLC playable character. Like a comeback for an Older Axton ((Thanks to the whole thing where he's broke) Sal could work to), or we get to play as a Sane Krieg. (I'm personally liking the idea of playing as a Sane Krieg, since if I remember the lore right, they used to be a merc before the whole psycho thing. Like, they would have a skill tree or 2 similar to OR a mix of skills from BL2, than the rest of the skill trees are new skills thanks to Krieg having more control and his sanity restored. And we can go along with the BL3 multiple active skills thing. I thought about this a lot.)
That would be a sick af idea tbh. I'd love that
at this point I'm just waiting for the Avengers level final fight where all the past vault hunters show up to help you in Borderlands 13
Rose not being a playable character was criminal to me. I remember seeing her design before the dlc came out and I was excited af hoping she'd be a dlc VH
Bro, I loved your video, but the absolute best part was the use of the clip from The Big Lez show 😂😂
I think gearbox might have some chance to address the abundance of characters by redesigning the skill tree system and making each of the characters we've seen in the game before as either their own class or at least offer boons to customize player's own VH; rebuilding them to play similarly or remaster the old character builds.
In the next borderlands game, whether it be a mainline game or a side game similar to the prequel, I want to see Torgue become a main character, this would probably have to be in a side game because I do not see torgue able to be a vault hunter, but it would be extremely cool to see nonetheless, Something else they could do is if they did do another side game similar to the pre-sequel they could easily have the cast of characters Be side characters like moxxxie torgue tanis Marcus dr zed or anyone like that, Now that is a very unlikely scenario, but it’s still a pretty cool concert in my opinion
Have you seen the Torgue mod? Playable Mister Torgue in bl2, it's really sick. Highly recommend
I think zer0 helping atlas in 3 makes sense for the story, given they’re at war, which would be a pretty good place to find a challenge
It should’ve been
Athena, axton and zer0- leaders of sanctuary military or helping Reese
Maya-has an apprentice but written well
Sal- should’ve worked with gaige for fun or been a bounty hunter
Gaige,kriege and Timothy were all used pretty well but besides that they really shot themselves in the foot ignoring presequel story setup and we all had to suffer because of it
well, there's also the 6 main characters from Tales who are also arguably vault hunters.
One thing I think could help with not showing them all off is to have each of them have a take down with them being the forse behind it. Would give some great end game content and a great chance for more lore
Zane - I could see him working with Rhys, alongside Zer0 (especially since they went to the same bar)
Amara - Maybe leading the crimson raiders while Lilith is gone?
Fl4k - While he is my favorite character, I'm not sure what they could do with him in BL4. Maybe something to do with the Grand Archivist?
Moze - I could see her having a questline about getting revenge on Vladof, but i can't think of much other than that
Great Video! Whats the song that starts playing at @5:04 it sounds so familiar 😭
One thing I wonder is if any of the BL3 hunters will die in the next game.
It never has too be as in-depth as BL2 but just having some fan favorite characters comeback with major importance would be nice. Loader-Bot and Gortys are a MUST, it would be stupid not to bring back Fl4k and Zane... and Maurice. Honestly, the track record for good new characters is so low they should bring back more recurring characters and have most new characters be "bad guys." Then again, there was so much "character assassination" in BL3 I don't know if they could even do the characters right anymore. I just don't want to see a character slot wasted for someone from new tales or something.
Wasn’t the claptrap unit in Borderlands the Presequel a prototype combat model named fragtrap.
I hope for Borderlands 4 they to flesh out some of the old Vault Hunters who got shafted in 3.
Axton and Salvador deserve to be properly handled as main game side characters.
I expect BL4 to pick up on the Siren subplot that's been bubbling from game to game so Lillith and Amara will definitely be present (along with Tanis and Ava).
Brick and Mordecai have gotten so much screen time and love at this point I feel like they could safely be tucked away into a DLC this time around or be given very minor cameos.
Zer0, Kreig and Timothy to me feel like their stories are more or less done by the time of BL3 so at best an audiolog or cameo to explain what's going on between games or during the current one is all they really need.
Gaige feels incomplete to me and still has room to be expanded on so I hope she gets some main game love.
Athena definitely needs to return and needs some proper narrative love from Gearbox in the next game. A DLC dedicated entirely to her would be acceptable.
Flak and Zane will definitely return.
Moze feels like boss fight material. Will probably get Aurellia'd.
Claptrap is Claptrap. He'll always be there even if we don't want him to be.
What I'm curious about is how the playable Siren will be if we get one in the next game. We have 4 of the 6 (not including the 7th who must "never be found." who I assume will be the big bad of that plotline) more or less already teamed up so unless we play as Ava which I doubt anybody wants then our options for powers would be either Phaseleech (would be cool to play as the person who inherits the powers of the previous game's villains) or whatever the control ability the chick from the comics had. Maybe a Phasecontrol or Phasecommand ability where you turn enemies against each other could come into play.
The only other thing I have to add is that I hope Tiny Tina becomes a playable character in the next game. She's just such a fun character and I want them to lean into her love of explosives.
zer0 i feel like stays with reese mostly because he respects him and what he achived being the atlas at its prime. zer0 did go raidio sailent when maliwan was invading atlas and it was kinda implayed that him going raidio sailent wasn't a one time thing. (don't quote me on that i may draw the wrong conclusion)
Least Krieg and Gaige have a good lot of fun in their own dlcs. Haven’t really gotten the dlc with Axton yet but I’m sure it’s ok at best.
atp they should just retconn Maya back into existence or like make it so that her soul/consciousness is still alive because of siren logic even if her body no longer exists, an example of this is from Honkai Impact 3rd where a 50,000 psychic guy still had his consciousness living even after his physical body died.
You can even tell that 3 is struggling with not just the past vault hunters, but also the past side characters like Tina and all the other new characters they introduced. If you're a big fan of Brick, or Zed, or Marcus, you're out of luck because they do nearly nothing in the story. It's mainlt Tannis and Lilith for rhe entire thing. The cast is just getting so big so quickly. It reminds me of something like Stranger things that also struggles with a big cast
They didn't have to design anything for Hammerlocks wedding, they could've easily had the players in an alternate outfit consisting there was a ton of cosmetics for each of the players already coded into the game, so not swapping some clothing around and having them not be there is plain fucking laziness on their parts. 🤷
it's weird that Zer0 has a crush on Lorelei since some of the dialogue in the hodunk zaford wedding headhunter says that he doesn't care about romance and only lives for fighting
I think Fl4k coming back and going on a bunt with Zero would make sense because Fl4k loves hunting and Zero wants a challenge, but theyd probably just remake Hammerlocks Big Game hunt if they went that direction
I love that you used the Sonic soundtrack as your background music 10/10
I don’t like how they humanized zer0s character so much in borderlands 3 especially with the Lorelei thing he’s supposed to be a quiet assassin and not much more but in the best way possible
I always like in crawmerax DLC how lilith and brick talk about crawmerax and the ledge. I hope BL4 has more moments like this
Yessss, I love that moment
BIG LEZ MENTIONED IN A BORDERLANDS VIDEO. Must be heaven
I want Mister Torgue to be a Vault Hunter. He’s awesome.
7:45. I mean it's called having no financial sense. Salvador I can see buying expensive booze.
I personly dont need any of the Bordernalds 3 Vaulthunters in the next game. They were not bad, but i couldnt think of a good way to bring them in besides the Siren story.
I feel like Zero being there for the war works, because he is almost single handedly fighting off an entire Corporation Military, is it the best challenge he has faced? No, probably not but it could get worth while and with the arrival of the COV and the Crimson Raiders plus a bonus extra vault, I’d say it was at least a little interesting for him.
Sane Krieg as a playable character would be neat
I wish they brought them all back in the main game. It would have been so cool to see a whole squad of VH helping you reach the final boss, kinda like how Brick and Morty did in BL2
Unfortunately I think the only thing they can do to fix this is have basically everyone get killed by the new big bad in BL4 as the opening. Keep maybe 5 or 6 characters on Sanctuary alive but have the whole cast be there in the opening so there's no question about when and where they might show up. CL4P-TP, Moxxi, and Tannis should be kept alive but aside from that you can kill any of the other characters off as a way to show off the terrifying power of the new antagonist. It also resets the group as a whole back to a lower level where we don't have a million allies all over the world waiting to help us at any moment. If they go this route you can make the story impactful immediately and give us a villain to really fear again.
The best argument I have for Axton and Salvador being broke is the statistic about people winning the lottery often becoming poor again from not having the discipline or habits built up for proper money management.
my problem was not that not all characters were there, it was that they treated them like absolute shit, maya and aurelia specifically, but zero feels off as well, and not even mentioning the rest?? for a very long time we had absolutely no idea IF 5 of these main characters were even alive, not even echo logs in the base game remotely suggesting anything about salvador, axton, timothy, gaige or athena
I can't wait for them to bring Mr Blake back into the story in the next installment, followed by Naoko Kitagawa, Captain Scarlet, Davis Pickle, and Harold Tassiter's Son who's the new President of Hyperion.
Oh, and also that ruffian guy from TFTBL, I liked him.
You know what they could EASILY implement into Borderlands 4? Plotwise, a retirement home type deal where a good chunk of them reside. The Vault Hunter Plaza Hotel for example. Where they enjoy pools, firing ranges, bars and like 6 different levels of all sorts of stuff. Bonus? Having this be where Moxxi resides as well to serve the VH.
With how dirty they did her in BL3 they better bring back Maya somehow and give her justice. She wasn't my first main, but she was the first one I really grinded out
I do have to wonder if there was a different writing team for the DLCs since they were mich better written than the main game
Zero: The worst she can say, is no
Lorelai: (Goes insane due to caffeine depravation and change gender)
I found the Krieg DLC's characterization of the character to be flimsy at best and felt like it ignored the plot of Borderlands 3. Which is crazy cuz it was in Borderlands 3.
Krieg historically is a hyper-emotional character who, for the most part seems unaffected by the death of Maya, it seems odd that well. He is sad there is no major conflict by her death, despite the fact that his entire motivation for becoming sane and fixing his problems was to be with her. When I initially heard about the DLC, I had assumed that this would be something of either returning Krieg to a somewhat sane state from him losing all rash and ability because he's lost the most important thing in his life or us killing Krieg as a final boss in the DLC because he's beyond saving. In the end, we got an abstract idea of how Krieg might be able to cope, but we don't really see a real reaction to what I would assume to be one of the most meaningful and important things that could ever happen within his character
I still believe that the only reason Gaige is there for Hammerlock's wedding is because she had a throwaway line in Moxxi's DLC about being attracted to him
thing is, both axton and salvador or a bit gun happy and impulsive enough i totally see them blowing all their money they got from the second game XD
I'd like it if they gave us the option play as any of the old vault hunters in the new games. It would give players their favorite VHs back. But also open the story for character agency and not relegate selected characters into being the cameraman during cutscenes.
I think Krieg returning was really good, but I mean, his appearance was centered around him and his character, not a single one of the other returning VHs really got that
I think they all need to return for the next game especially if they’re doing the whole big war thing and I think most of them need to have meaningfull deaths to kill off some of them because we have a lot of vault hunters.
If Borderlands 3 was establishing a pattern like I think it is. Then 4 is going to have one playable character from each of the previous games die. And my logical pics are brick give him a heroic sacrifice. For 2 i am completely stumped but i guess Salvador. For the pre-sequel well it has to be claptrap. And for 3 unfortunately it has to be Zane i mean he is a mercenary that does things for money so he could be a boss
I just want my Bloodwing back, hated that quest in Borderlands 2, broke me completely.
My man, you are underestimating, heavily, how little financial responsibility some people have. Axton and Salvador recklessly spending through their Vault Hunter earnings isn't exactly THAT ridiculous.
Hopefully, in bl4 we can get to see the watcher again. Or at least play as tina or an eridian siren.
I so wanna play as tina.
I feel like they should add dlc’s in bl4 of each group of vault hunters getting back together
I like how so many returning characters were assasinated (literally and narratively), you didn't even have time to mention Rhys or Vaughn. As for BL4 predictions, I completely expect gearbox to jump the shark and make someone like Tina a playable character
as long as krieg keeps coming back im happy