Bags vs Bottles vs Bales & Reducing Mushroom Production Costs I Mushroom Farming I GroCycle
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- čas přidán 6. 06. 2024
- Learn about the main 3 methods of mushroom cultivation: bags, bottles and bales. You'll find out the main differences and the advantages and disadvantages of each method. We'll also look at the main production costs as well as ways of reducing them.
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
0:22 Main choices to make when growing mushrooms
0:59 Sterile Bag Method
3:34 Bottle Method
6:21 Bale Method
9:13 Is it all about yield?
11:00 Ways of reducing labour costs
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Related videos from our channel:
- Sterilisation vs. Pasteurisation in Mushroom Cultivation
• Sterilisation vs. Past...
To learn more, come and get your FREE ebook and video training here: grocycle.com/workshop/
Why don't you just boil the plastic bags after they have been used service sterilised and can be reused
Why not design a system bases on straw bales. I always wanted to get one big 500lb round. Set up a steamer and inoculate .... One could use cows to help with straw based mushies. I have goats that ate sum spent oyster bales and they grow when the conditions are right🎉🎉🎉
I got f**cked up with alcohol for over 8 years. Also suffered severe depression. Not until my mom recommended me to psilocybin mushrooms treatment. I will be 2 years clean after trying out a psilocybin treatment. Never thought I would be saying this about mushrooms. Saved my life honestly from addiction and depression.
After doing some research, i've been looking to try shrooms for Anxiety. Just very difficult to get a reliable source here in Sweden. Really need!
Yes! Very sure of Dr.Larryshrom
Hey! Yes I'm very sure of Dr.Larryshrom . what's helped me more personally is micro dosing. I don't take a lot at all I'll only eat a cap or two and I'm good for the entire day. It just helps to clear your mind and cleanse your soul. Very hard to explain... It's like trying to explain colors to a person who's never been able to see.
Shrooms microdosing help me overcome my life long addiction to cigarettes and alcohol. Nature's little miracles.
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I'd really like to see how those biodegradable bale bags work out, the sooner the mushroom industry can escape disposable plastics the better.
You can just use PLA and hope no-one checks what "biodegradable" really means.
Or recycle the plastic
Plastic is fine. I know liberals hate everyone and everything, but it's really fine.
@@Leicht_Sinn
"recycle"= toss in the ocean.
@@Auguur Thats not true.
For those using the metric system, there are about 16 chicken nuggets in a pound and 14 caterpillars in a foot
🤣 got me with the chickie nuggiez
@@benjamindorsey2058 "Americans will measure in anything except the metric system"
Challenge Accepted
@@garrett-unicornbags8196 because metric is stupid and pointless
lol. That’s funny
🤣
Psychedelics definitely has potential to deal with health issues like anxiety and depression , I would like to try them but it's hard to source them here,
proven very effective in the treatment of various mental health issues aside from other health benefits. Helped me get out of years of depression and excessive alcohol use.
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I just discovered how fast they grow each day. They are shooting up each few hours they change. So cool and rewarding.
Enjoy your uploads. I’m a new grower, Oyster. using 20 litre drums 7kg wet weight, straw pasteurised in lime solution.
Keep it simple, reusable containers, lower cost of production.
czcams.com/video/zSmBIwZxcAE/video.html
How much yield do you get?
give us yo yield son
what's your yeild?
We're still waiting man give us your yield.
This channel chooses incredibly relevant topics
Love what you guys are doing. Absolutely have subscribed. Would love to see a video relayed to growing shitake in straw bales.
I like the idea of harvesting enough wild mushrooms to eat in season or dry for the winter. But, aside from psychedelic mushrooms I have not grown edible ones. I hear it is more difficult. I have the pf tech memorized and look forward to future mushroom cultivation endeavors. Thank for cultivation info!
I would love a video of how to use straight sided mason jars to bottle grow mushrooms. As for the home grower, this will be far more beneficial than plastic bags and you can just do some steam pasteurization with an instant pot
Great video. Very informative.
Really nice videos!, the best i´ve found on youtube, greetings from Chile
I appreciate your comment
Great video, thanks guys!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Another great video. Thank you.
Our pleasure!
Had success. Ty.
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So nice
Great video, cheers
Glad you enjoyed it
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Excellent
Awesome awesome awesome
GroCycle videos are hands down the best mushroom cultivation videos on the web - thanks for another great video!
Wow, thanks!
czcams.com/video/zSmBIwZxcAE/video.html
Thanks for sharing kind business!
Not make the earth suffering
Very interested in growing some mushrooms. Interested in trying a variety that stores don’t sell here
Thanks!!
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Thanks for the explained process. I’m really interested in this would like to learn more from you guys. How can I get the materials
Great video, one point of correction on the bottles, they do not have to be inoculated from the top. Some systems create a hole down the center, and innoculum (grain, etc) can be poured into it, resulting in fast colonization times.
Thanks for the info!
czcams.com/video/zSmBIwZxcAE/video.html
very good
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Thanks Steve! 🙂
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Great videos
Glad you like them!
Thanks
Have you tried introducing a more nutritious hardwood or grain core into the center of the hay bag to see if the yields increase?
I appreciate your comment
Как то читала, что прибавить дробленную кору деревьев, веточек. Да они улучшают качество грибов и их количество особенно на 3 волне.
Thanks for sharing and comparison between dual techniques
How hard is it to grow other mushrooms like Shittake on straw?
There are filter patch bags which are fully biodegradable now, they've been around for a while. Kinda surprised they weren't mentioned.
czcams.com/video/zSmBIwZxcAE/video.html
If you listened, you would have heard him mention them.
@@pb2959 is your intention only to be an ahole or can you be useful too and drop a timestamp?
@@pb2959 Actually, in the video at 7:48 they were referring to the "bale" bags that are made from plant starch but are NOT used in the autoclave since that section of the video is about using pasteurized substrate. Unicorn Bags sell an oxo-biodegradable filter-patch bag that is also autoclave-able.
@@chasefreeman2188 Oxo-biodegradable just break down into Microplastics, Unicorn Bags openly lie about it turning in fertiliser etc. We still have a way to go
What brand of compostable bag did you use for the bales shown at 7:39? Being composed of 100% corn starch do they require an industrial compost service or can you do it "at home"?
Hi Ame - we've done another video about these bags: czcams.com/video/5VDXkGGzBFg/video.html
Looked at the pinned comment - there's a link to the manufacturer! Thanks for your interest!
Thank you, Gentlemen.
What bags do you use for columns?
Yield is especially important for operations with smaller fruiting rooms
What did they do in days before plastic?
Great video. Can you turn up the volume a bit, a tad light on the voice
Thanks for sharing this. What baling machine did you use to make your bales?
We don't have a baling machine (yet...)
czcams.com/video/zSmBIwZxcAE/video.html
Great info, I’ve been doing research on it as I want to grow my own mushrooms. Just some thoughts: instead of using bottles use a bucket, it can hold more substrate than a bottle. As for bags, instead of using plastic bags, why not burlap sacs, the ones made from natural fibers, those are biodegradable
I got access to a whole bunch of whole oats. How can I stop them from spouting while using them as a substrate?
You should get a Mohawk. Just an idea. 😁
Can you do morels like that
quantity is great, yeild is good, Quality is all I care for
I guarantee it's not ALL you care for.
czcams.com/video/zSmBIwZxcAE/video.html
You can't run a business like that. And how "good" or "bad" can you get an oyster mushroom? What's the actual difference between an "average" and a "good" oyster mushroom except damage from rough handling or too long to sale?
Yield....
I’ve been following for videos for awhile so almost if not all my knowledge has become a result of the content you guys share, thanks so much for taking the time !
I have a question about the straw bail method. Before seeing this video , I pondered if I could buy a bail of cut straw and inoculate it instead of bagging substrate. I tried to pasteurize the bag inside my 50gallon drum and buy boiling it with holes punched through. I wasn’t successful.. how do you guys perform this process without the need of removing the straw from the bags and keeping everything still intact?
Hiya, might not be what you’re looking for but I read in a guide to bioremediation that you can submerge large amounts of substrate in water for a while (long enough so only anaerobic bacteria remains) and then drain the water off (exposing the anaerobic bacteria to air, killing them) to get a decently clean sub. Hope this helps :)
@@nathancowling2776 do you have any links I could research? 🤗
czcams.com/video/zSmBIwZxcAE/video.html
@@nathancowling2776 wouldn't the act of drying the sub off introduce aerobic bacteria?
I just discovered this and I was wondering, what do you think about the bottle method for people looking only to provide for their own consumption? Would it make sense? Also, if you wanted to grow mushrooms like Shiitake, can't you just lay the bottle on its side?
Exactly. Also, there are decorative planters for pot plants that have openings all up the sides. The openings protrude from the sides a couple of centimetres, so I don't know why the concept can't be adapted to form the side openings for these grow bottles so they can have lids fitted for the initial inoculation period. Then there's all this stuff about how they're limited to a kilo of substrate - so make the bottles larger to take 5 kilos? Or base them on 20 litre food-quality plastic buckets.
Obviously the machinery that's used commercially will need to be modified to deal with larger bottles and the side-opening lids, but I can't see how that'd be unsurmountable. Maybe the openings should have a nice flat flange around them, and automation to glue/heat-seal filters to them which can then be peeled off. That could happen immediately after the sterilisation step, with everything still hot. Also, with the complaints about inoculating substrate throughout, a multichannel pipette or similar could be plunged to the bottom and withdrawn in a spiral motion, dispensing a liquid culture. And so on and so forth.
In the UK , What sort of price do you charge per pound of oyster mushrooms ?
On average how many ponds per week do you sell to the same customer ?
I’d love to do this as a side line to help my family , but struggling to see a profit ?
Your videos are fascinating! Thanks
I appreciate your comment
Haha. You gotted spammed. It raises an interesting point, though. I magine psychedelic mushrooms would be much, much more profitable on a small scale. Here in Colorado, small scale cannabis growers are completely wiped out by decriminalization. It looks like we may get 'shroom decriminalization, but various forcs are working hard to ensure it isn't mass produced, and less diversion onto the black market into states where it's not decriminalized.
@@squirlmy Please, small scale like what size? Does the bigger producers have relations with some kind of mafia?
Interesting
I think i have a design, for a growing system. 😁
Anyone use RYE Flour instead of Brown Rice Flour? (PF TEK} I heard that the Rye flour needs less water in the mix. (I bought Rye by mistake instead of BRF today) A few years ago I tied both separately to compare but I forget . At age 69 I forget short term memory anyways. Can't wait for Golden Teachers!
What's that brand of compostable bag shown around 7:50? I would love to give them a try.
I appreciate your comment.
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Check out Unicorn Bags - they have biodegradable filter bags. Find a supplier that sells them as Unicorn is wholesale (1k+ minimum).
Sir, I have a chipper/shredder that I use to grind up tree limbs. Can you use hardwood chips instead of hardwood sawdust in growing Mushrooms???
You absolutely can depending on the species. Shiitake for example really tends to like a more dense substrate so doesn’t take all too well to chips (it still may work though with sterile chips.) Oysters and wine caps work well on loosely packed wood chips. To grow most wood lovers however you would want to fill the voids in between the chips with sawdust to make it easier for the mushrooms to colonize the whole substrate
@@robrod7120 Thanks, I have a lot of Oak wood chips, about 20 cubic yards.
@John Parrish Yes like Rob Rod said you can definitely use hardwood chips as mushroom substrate...if they are small sized chips this would be ideal...if they are larger chip size you would want to mix with sawdust to create a better structure and provide more easily available nutrition for your mycelium to digest. Chips are also great for outdoor woodchip beds, like this: czcams.com/video/PIYWzfVW-ws/video.html
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You can spray the bales with hydroponic feed chemicals to increase yield
Any way to grow mushroom in the soil/fields?
check out this for outdoor mushroom beds: czcams.com/video/AIUCE3j_Qhg/video.html
Some substrate costs won't be reduced much because some fungi taste awful when fruited with substituted substrates; fungi have preferred substrates & sometimes that may greatly affect flavor, & my presumption nutrition
The different costs outlined in this video were more about how the substrate was handled and prepared rather than the raw material used.
what about Oak wood?
Anyone know if they are working a stronger or more aggressively growing versions of these mushrooms?
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Good for you, and great to see you documenting your journey!!!
Good video if possible please scroll text what you are telling. I am from India and it is a good channel.
What is the reason for no need to stabilise with heat when using bales? is it simply the type of mushroom being grown?
Hi Chris - when growing mushrooms such as Oyster and Lions Mane, as well as some of the more aggressive strains of Shiitake, pasteurising the substrate is fine - this knocks out MOST of the competing organisms. With less aggressive strains, you would need to sterilise, which is where the heat comes in. We grow the Low-Tech way and pasteurise, which is more sustainable, and much cheaper (less energy, less equipment). To find out more you should check out our free workshop: czcams.com/video/icKeO-kyiGk/video.html
Bottle method is like industrial SOG 👍
do you also teach in your course how to grow KUEHNEROMYCES MUTABILIS?
Hi! Currently we don't - have you grown these yourself?
@@GroCycleTV i hoped to learn that from your course :)
hello! do you provide training on how to grow king oyster mushrooms? if so, how much do these courses cost?
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How much does substrate choice affect the flavor of the mushrooms
You should check out (@Anthony_mycology), he delivers psychedelics and mushrooms
He is on Instagram. Check him out
If you don't have a Instagram, create one for yourself and check him now
What are these mushies for
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How do we water mushrooms in a bucket?
You can just use a hand spritzer, or the misting part of a garden hose pipe...! Good luck!!
7:54 where can you purchase these compostable plastic bales please?
Keen an eye on this space. We will soon have this added to our shop page on grocycle.com :)
@@GroCycleTV Thanks. I'm using buckets atm but the cleaning is rather frustrating. I have some polypropylene bags but it is really a bad use of resources.
I appreciate your comment
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Unicorn Bags sells oxo-biodegradable filter patch bags which are autoclavable (different from the starch-based autoclave-able pasteurized bales mentioned in the video)
J'aime bien votre travail bien fait et Propre
Est ce que vous pouvez m'apprendre à cultiver le champignon ?
You should check out (@Anthony_mycology), he delivers psychedelics and mushrooms
He is on Instagram. check him out
If you Don't have a Instagram. Create one for yourself and text him. He's open now
How can one learn about the whole process of mushroom cultivation? Any online reading material or courses you can recommend? Appreciated. God speed.
Hi Ravash - try our Free Workshop: czcams.com/video/icKeO-kyiGk/video.html
Good luck - let us know what you think!!
You should check out (@Anthony_mycology), he delivers psychedelics and mushrooms
He is on Instagram. Check him out
If you don't have a Instagram, create one for yourself now and text him. He is open
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Which method is best for chestnut and porchini mushrooms for a small home scale? Eg 52kg per year.
Chestnut work well with the bag/sterilization method. Porcini will not work with any of these methods. They are mycorrhizal (have relationships with specific tree species roots) and are currently not possible to cultivate hence the high price.
@@il3539 they can fruit 30m from where you spread the spores...... question why aren't fruit and nut orchards diversifying by spawning porcini mushrooms throughout their orchards? Even for coppice orchards like willow etc it would increase income and diversify for very little effort.
@@601salsa Honestly not sure. I know most fruit and nut orchards in the US (I’m in Gulf Coast Texas) are monoculture and rely pretty heavily on pesticides and fungicides for reliable harvest. Could be some safety concerns since mushrooms tend to accumulate heavy metals from the soil as well as pesticides. Definitely a good idea for poly culture systems not reliant upon chemical inputs for pest control. Porcini do not grow down here but we have a very good chanterelle season(May-November) so that might be an option in my area. I only find them associated with oak trees in floodplain areas so the possibilities for combining them with other food producing species of trees might be limited.
I replied the way I did because all the methods described in this video are for saprophytic species which are the most reliably cultivated mushrooms at a large scale for a variety of reasons: yield, time frame from inoculation to harvest, no reliance on seasonality unless you are growing outdoors, etc.
I think there are a lot of possibilities for small scale or home producers with some acreage to experiment with different species in a poly culture setting like you describe.
I appreciate your comment
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I don’t know if it’s just me being dumb but I don’t quite understand why a small scale home-grower can’t use bottles? Like for family use would it not be possible to buy a few bottles with lids and do the steps by hand? Seems rather straightforward to me but maybe I’m missing something vital here?
You can, it just requires all the equipment on the commercial side. I've done jars at home just fine and it's not a big hassle to grow just for home use.
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What's the difference between shredded vs unshredded straw?
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Hello sir
"Obviously we are going to need to invest in some machinery to increase our output and reduce our staff... time input."
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Remember Labour is a positive outgoing, And I hope everyone pays a real living wage atleast.
Could you potentially eliminate plastic waste by using the pasteurization method in sturdier plastic bins? It would be a bigger upfront investment but you could just wash them out between uses. Is there a reason people do not do this? Thanks!
I imagine the cost of time spent washing and sterilizing the bins, as well as the cost and environmental impact of so much water would be a factor. I do not know myself but am also interested.
1) there is a difference between pasteurization and sterilization. What pasteurization you were only heating the substrate to 180° over the course of 1 to 2 hours. With sterilization you are superheating the substrate to around 250° over the course of 2 to 3 hours. The former does not kill all of the bacteria in the substrate while the lighter kills everything. The purpose in this is because to grow high-yield flushes of some mushrooms you need to add nutrients. If you add nutrients to pasteurized substrate, you’re going to get contamination. This contamination will likely outgrow the mycelium.
2) in order to sterilize you’re going to need to be able to fit your substrate bags into a pressure cooker. Whatever you use to hold the substrate will have to be of a PP5 quality plastic in order to not melt or completely fall apart. The mushroom bags that people use for mushroom substrate or made of a PP5 plastic that can resist high temperatures. This allows for sterilization of the substrate, and removal from the PCU without contamination.
GroCyle is testing this.
@@celticlass8573 Cool!
@@violettracey I'll be testing it myself beginning sometime over the next several months. I've sourced some 1 ft x 1 ft food-grade buckets (formerly used when the store ordered bulk peanut butter), that I'm wondering if they can be used to make "fruiting blocks" instead of using the bags, which I would then turn into the larger standard-sized buckets people seem to use. Or possibly grow directly from those small buckets, after drilling holes in them (GroCycle has a post on their website about this), which are uncovered when the bucket is fully colonized, to bring on fruiting conditions. I understand it can likely be done in larger buckets, but I want to see if it can be done in smaller, because 1) my growing space is small, so I would like a more frequent turnover as far as colonization and flushes, if you get me, and 2) The buckets would otherwise be sent to recycle or to landfill (just like the bags would), which I'm trying to eliminate, so by using "waste" buckets, there's no waste at all. :)
great video - by a ton do you mean 1016 kg? Thnaks
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Would have been better if you included plastic buckets
I'm utterly clueless about any of this, but the first thing that came to my mind was growing them in stainless steel columns with holes in the side. As I don't even see that mentioned by pros, can you share what the problems with it are?
Stainless is more expensive and more difficult to cut holes in than plastic bags or buckets
@@keving7805 True, but you would only have to do it once and then you can sterilize them as needed.
czcams.com/video/zSmBIwZxcAE/video.html
@@KeithOlson I imagine weight, equipment to move the due to size and weight, and the cost of water and space to sterilize and store for next use.
@@chasefreeman2188 Hmmm... some good points.
Why would the bottle method *require* mechanization any more than any other method, simply because it's an option? And the bag manufacturer is the source for why they're a bad idea.... 🤨
Labour on handling, filling, inoculating smaller vessels takes proportionally more time than with larger ones
Yeah, I had this same question. What if someone is just getting started and wanted to try a single bottle? Can you not do this method manually?
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Sir, are you taking a dry mushroom
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Doesnt Sterilizable Oxo biodegradable bags (note not oxo degradable) break down in 3 years , Thats very acceptable especially considering typical plastic is hundreds of years. They do cost more though.
Unicorn's are also recyclable because it is still polypro. Even if not using oxo-biodegradable, recycling is better than letting it go to the landfill.
@@chasefreeman2188 Yes, but they do end up in landfill eventually, since they can only make decreasing-quality plastics with each recycle.
as I understand it, Unicorn bags are not actually "biodegradeable", they degrade into microplastics. Convenient for dumping, but not really enviro-friendly. It still takes "hundreds of years", but the microplastics will dissipate through the environment enough that you have plausible deniability. So, there's that. 😥😢
@@chasefreeman2188 only about 2% of "recyclable" plastics are actually recycled. I think Germany has the highest rate at 50%. The whole concept of "recycling plastics" is a kind of scam, mainly by people naively thinking "market forces" could be harnessed in the effort to recycle them.
@@squirlmy seriously, you need to lookup the difference between pox-biodegradable, degradable (micro plastics/EU ban), and recyclability. I fully agree with you on the harm of biodegradable plastics leading to micro plastics. But ‘Oxo’ has an additive that helps it fully break down with the help of natural organisms - it requires the sun and oxygen - still not great for waste but what you’re saying is wrong. Also, let’s all remember to “reduce and reuse” before we recycle because as you mention, individual recycling is not very useful.
You have not really mentioned in numbers the yield differences.
Honestly, I was able to survive depression, also my strong addiction to illicit drugs over 3 years which could have been medically dangerous to quit, all thanks to Psilocybin mushrooms.
Using Polymere which is going to be recycelt is WAY BETTER then biodegradable Polymere because most of them are only biodegradable at industry standarts which isn't achivable for consumer and this polymere still emits the same CO2 emission as the one which gets burned
I know this is a relatively older video and I’m sure there are tons of methods/variants that weren’t mentioned for time or relevance.
But are you all aware of North Spore? They’re a mushroom producer in the northwest US and they also do CZcams videos. I imagine the “bucket method” was left out because, as ubiquitous as it is (at least in the states) it seems more like a hobbyist approach. But North Spore has a video on the bucket method and how they used it to start and upscale their production. And in general you seem like the kind of folk who would have fun collaborating/needing-out with them
Dude.
I grow Lion's Mane.
For restaurants,
not drug dealers.
This video on production looks like someone is trying to grow enough shrooms to supply a small city. 😄
More a large town!!! ;-)
The mechanized method with bottles has some obvious environmental effects besides plastics; how much fossil fuel is burned to produce the energy to run those 10 large industrial machines? To maintain temps and humidity in the chambers?
Yeah but what if I just make a few bottles at home by hand?
Turn the bottle on the side to fruit shiitake lol
Not that simple…
czcams.com/video/zSmBIwZxcAE/video.html
where can I get regular polypropylene bags? I want to add the filter patches and injection ports myself. UK supplier please.
Buying transparent autoclave bags for medical waste is how I decided to go.
Not one real person replied, sorry guys I'm not sending money over telegram.
You should check out (@Anthony_mycology), he delivers psychedelics and mushrooms
He is on Instagram. Check him out
If you don't have a Instagram. Create one for yourself and text him. He's open now
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