Tom Haberstroh Explains Article Questioning Validity of Michael Jordan's DPOY Award | THE ODD COUPLE
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- čas přidán 20. 06. 2024
- THE ODD COUPLE - Chris Broussard & Ephraim react to Yahoo Sportswriter Tom Haberstroh, who wrote an article looking into the validity of Michael Jordan's 1988 Defensive Player of the Year award due to the possibility that statistics may have been inflated in favor of the home teams in the past.
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Every few months there's a new narrative to discredit MJ. 😆
Its not about discrediting MJ, its not hate and its not the mandela effect. Mike has had cheerleaders in the media who have always beefed his numbers up because they had a stake in making him the "goat". Thats what people are missing when we say lebron is the goat. There were no media people or marketers trying to sell shoes or movies. Lebron is/was always pure skill, no false numbers!
Gotta check them ASTOCKS 😅
@chrisscott532 you sound like a lebron Stan. You always trying to discredit someone but in same breath say the queen is the greatest. He don't even play defense, his whole stint as a lakers would be considered a failure by the great lakers standards. He used nepotism to bring his 4pts a game son to the nba and yall got nerves to bring up jordan ?
@chrisscott532 Pure skill 😂 go check the shot chart % and then come back and tell us all how skilful he is. Hes rubbish outside of 5-10 feet.
Two 3 peats
10x scoring champ
9x first team all defense
That's really what makes Jordan the GOAT. The DPOY while scoring 35 ppg in 87 is amazing but it doesn't really need to be mentioned.
WHEN THE HATE DOESN'T WORK, THEY START TELLING LIES!
It's not that deep.
100%
Facts your goat got the stimulus package
The dude who wrote the article also wrote an article about how bronny james is underrated
hahaha did he? and he laughed off Klutch giving him cuddles
That's irrelevant bud. His opinion on Bronny is just that, an opinion. The MJ story is not opinion, it's been proven..
@howsittastes it's proves agenda bud
@@howsittastes How has it been proven? I'm open to you proving it, but the burden of proof is on you making the claim
@@howsittastes proven that he's under Klutch sports payroll LOL
This man said Kobe wasnt athletically gifted 😂😂😂
Dunked over Dwight Howard in his prime....
Relative to Jordan, Carter, LeBron? He's right and he got Kobe as his GOAT.
@@BaXiStA naming 3 of the most athletic players ever and sayin Bean wasn’t as athletic as them so that just mean he wasn’t athletically gifted is a terrible point to make. I saw Kobe dunk on shocking centers from day 1 he won the dunk contest as a teenager he hung on the air as long as anybody. He was in a high percentile of athletically gifted players
@@BaXiStAbut related to almost every other person on the court or in the world he was.
Kobe is my GOAT, and I agree he wasn't physically gifted. He was just far more talented and a god of hard work. It is important to understand the difference. He was no more physically gifted than Jerry Stackhouse.
So start calling all these travels and double dribbles.
Lebron scoring would be cut in half 😂
They were traveling back in the 90s as well
@@dadillonful they take 5 steps regularly today. Pick up they dribble and carry the ball constantly. Not even comparable.
@@dreydog5000 go watch full games of the 90s and you will see the same
Jordan travelled a lot too…
Saying Kobe wasn’t overly gifted athletically is beyond crazy lmao
Compared to other NBA players he has avg athletic ability.
Always spitting on his grave. Spit spit. 💦
Kobe had some insane dunks they seem to have forgotten
Kobe speed and jumping for his cohort was average. It’s his skill that separated him. His work.
@@dewanewelch1744 Do you not remember young kobe?
just remember, Tom Haberstroh is also the same guy who got exposed on live TV by t-mac, he was making an arguement with stats saying rudy gay and dirk was more clutch than kobe. T-mac than asked him are you taking rudy gay and dirk over kobe to take your last shot and he couldn't answer the question without ruining hes own arguement.
That’s different though. That’s an opinion
So is this - MJ didn’t get that award cause of stats also he is just cherry picking which stats and years to use.
The guys MJ was competing against had “inflated stats” - you can see the same thing with LeBalco his entire career in home vs away and Balco Bron being able to get away with shoulder trucking people every other play cause he has no moves and being allowed to carry.
We can do nonsense like that forever / which is what makes this so sad and pathetic.
Comparing Rudy Gay to Dirk and Kobe's greatness sounds criminal, lol.
Dirk Nowitzki is more clutch than Kobe Bryant. That’s a fact.
A disingenuous opinion
This is the same guy that said Rudy Gay was more clutch than Kobe Bryant 😂😂
Just another LePropaganda bum, got roasted by T-Mac on live tv 🤣
Next analytics will tell us Smush Parker was better than MJ.
Analytics don't tell you who is better, it's mathematics, not a popularity contest
@@ddll6709 Statistically better. Most people didn't need that to be spelled out. Just you.
no....they wont lol
Sounds right
@@stevencoardvenice Someone who actually gets it.
Only in the nba do they knock the players of the past
Just to boost 1 player
Really sad
It's actually pathetic tbh
They'll be happy when the league goes under. Then they'll be asking the past players to help salvage/promote it.
LeBron is the goat
@@ericjordan6059- Go under? 😂
Only in the NBA do they knock the players of the present.
Just to boost 1 player.
Really really sad.
Bro Kobe was incredibly gifted in terms of height (6’6 is taller than 99% of the world), size ( he was shredded, athleticism. He’s one of the most athletic nba players of all time
You are absolutely correct. But he was not on the athletic level of Jordan, Lebron, Dr. J or Dominique Wilkins.But Kobe was incredibly gifted athletically.
And his Dad was an ex NBA player
He won a dunk contest. To say he wasnt super athletic is crazy. People just remember the later Kobe
there a bunch of dudes in the nba 6'6' that just sit in the corner and shoot 3's,. and cant do anything else.. There are "bigs" who can do nothing but dunk. saying kobe is not gifted because he couldnt jump like jordan or vince carter is ridiculous
That man has no business talking basketball. He sounds ridiculous. Kobe was a grown man coming out of high school. Pull up his high school highlights and explain how tf he wasn't athletically gifted
Why didn’t they go after Lebron’s “assist totals” or “steals? This was a hit piece
Cuz mj doesn't have a team of payed researchers and media clowns out there trying to discredit his competitions legacies to make him look better.
He literally explained in the video. Listening to comprehension at an all time low😂
Because of gambling industry it's harder to get away with faking stats
@@fica1137lebron has been playing since 2003. He likely got the benefit of the home town stat padders like everyone else.
@@FIuxWave I mean Bron’s first year he had more than twice as many blocks at home than on the road and even played 3 fewer games at home. Alvin Robertson had over 4 times as many blocks at home than on the road the year he won DPOTY. MJ’s was less than 2 times more from home to road that year. Take it how you will.
Why try and continue to tear down Michael Jordan? Seems like all of the Lebron James fanboys in and outside the media are doing their best to tear down Jordan's accomplishments and the era he played in, which is bs in my opinion.
It's beyond basketball now, they are disrespecting him as a man to try to uplift LeBron out of jealousy because LeBron will never be better,
Lebron giving u wet dreams?😂
bro if that was bron would you have that same mindset?
Sure, but I don't feel any sympathy in that regard because that's the same thing MJ fans do, particularly when it comes to dissecting the strength/weaknesses of LeBron's era and putting asterisks on all of his rings. We see that too, so I can't get too worked up in dredging up sympathy for MJ and his fans
It's not even close. Jordan is the Goat regardless of DPOY
What's the point of all of this? To marginalize Michael Jordan's accomplishments? One thing that can't be questioned by these analytics/stat nerds. Are Jordan's championships. 1 in college and 6 in the NBA!
One less than John Havlicek. 8-0 in finals.
*It's a valid argument because of how unusual the stats were. They were normal and then randomly spiked for a DPOY year and went back to normal? MJ was great, but not 1 year super special great.*
Because Jordan is a marketing meme and this further proves it. You should have known from the AIR movie.
Why are u scared to learn the truth about jordan?
Absolutely. These stats and awards are insignificant. The rings and the eye test tell the story.
Interesting that they don't mention that Nick Wright co-authored this report, and he said so on his own show.
What is your actual implication. Are you claiming that it is a lie and Jordan’s stats were not juiced in the 6 game sample size they examined?
@@FIuxWave Nick has always been a LeBron fanboy so the implication here is that it's a hit piece.
@SuperSonic_868 no one cared but since Lebum can't have his DPOY he wants to marginalized Jordans number to make him seem unworthy...
@@FIuxWave Nick did this becuase for the last year or two the Internet has been saying lebrons assets Totals are in valid becuase they count assit AFTER the person dribbles and make a basketball 🏀 move... so along with Nick's Boo Thang not getting DPOY but he can also discredit Jordans numbers
@@vernonherb But are you disputing the actual research done in the sample size or are you acknowledging it as fact?
Were these 6 games cherry-picked out of an 82 game season?
I want to know about the rest of the games. What if stat keeps from other arenas were not reporting all of Jordan’s stocks? If they’re going to open this can of worms then don’t just use 6 games. We need to do it for every game.
They were the only home games where full footage existed.
ITS FUNNY CAUSE MJ DONT BE TALKING ABOUT NOBODY UNLESS HES ASKED IF THAT....
Man just be chillin opening up hospitals, going to NASCAR to check up on his team and doing rich people tings
cause he's secure by way of family and accomplishment
@@suntansuperman26 💯
@@physicsmusic 💯
Facts 💯💯💯
Another dude on Lebron's payroll ?
Right because you gotta be “on LeBron’s payroll” to expose corruption in the NBA with fraudulent stats being created for a player. 🤦. Jesus you guys are dumb af.
How by pointing out how stats were manipulated? 😂
@@kingshabazz1310 The stats aren't manipulated. You can watch Jordans games on CZcams so this is just really stupid
@@christiansoldier77 How hard is this to comprehend. They watched 6 full games and found a huge discrepancy from what the stats claimed and what the stats actually showed. That's a journalism 101
@@ddll6709 That would be impossible to have a huge discrepancy stop the nonsense maybe one or two steals here or there . Just like LeBron gets credit for assists that weren't really assist sometimes . It is human error
Ephraim has the delusion that Kobe was not gifted athletically. He won the dunk contest!
That was a pretty weak dunk contest..
MJ>KB>Lefraud
How is he a fraud? Or does it just sound good in your head? 😂
Michael Jordumb. Yay! I gotchu
Period
MJ then Magic, then Kareem, then KB.....Lechoke maybe 5 at the best.
Facts 💯
What do you mean “I dont think you can get away with gifted stats in this era”. I’ve seen this year they give assists to someone throws a pass the catch puts the ball on the floor. Takes 2-3 dribbles and a spin and makes a layup, but still counts as an assist.
Someone gonna excuse it like it hasn't been happening since mid 2010s
Facts
Exactly. Same stuff in regards to rebounding star players get the stats. I've seen LeBron just touch a ball in the air before a teammate grabs it and he gets the credit. Also seen him get credit for other ppls steals. So yeah shits still happening. But what actually qualifies as an assist these days is completely ridiculous compared to back in the day.
Half of John stocktons assist were that way
Ah, yes, the classic Stockton Assist.
If you double Jordan's road totals for steals and blocks in 1987, and discard his home totals, he _STILL_ gets over 200 and 100 blocks in that
season. So if Jordan didn't deserve the 1988 DPOY, then give him the award for 1987.
Exactly
But if it was happening for all players at home I don’t see how it would take away the validity of his DPOTY. They were competing against each other after all.
He’s also finished 2nd and 3rd in DPOTY. Not like he only had one year that was good and the rest sucked lol
@@John__Smithson28... Exactly! Like a 5 season stretch, he was averaging 2.5-2.6 spg.
@@John__Smithson28 How do you know they didn't cook his stats those years too? I find it hard to believe he just cheated that one time
There is video proof of rebounds being given to Lebron that don’t count as rebounds for other players. This kind of thing happens to this day whenever they can pull it off. I’ve seen assists done for players as well. This going back 40 years to try to rip down the best player is just crazy.
The hilarity, it wasn't questioned back then, not in 1990, not in 2000, not in 2010, not in 2020, but now, that Leflop can't achieve anything more to surpass MJ, and as Nick Wright said, he has a hand in it, that's why he's informed ahead of time. This, basing on 6 full games? Or, is this for all 82 games? And back then, home court advantage is a real thing.
WTF do making up stats gotta do with home court advantage???
How can you have more steals than opponents have live ball turnovers? It's literally breaking the rules
@@fica1137 , i have no issue with data, as long as it is confirmed official data.. not made up. If they are fully watching the games, they can see all the steals, right? just count the the steals, would that be an issue? or it will break the narrative?
@@constanciokurdapio541 send him (LamarMatic) full game footage, good quality 80s regular season games that weren't nationally broadcast is really hard to come by.
I suspect NBA won't cooperate
@@constanciokurdapio541 Send LamarMatic or Haberstroh the footage if you have any of Bulls home games from 87-88 season. Tape from 80s regular season games that weren't nationally broadcast is hard to come by.
I doubt NBA itself is going to do anything about this since there is no point business wise in rocking the boat for a season that happened 37 years ago.
Chris just admitted he works for clutch/lebron
Like we needed him to admit it.
how ?😂he thinks jordan is the goat lmfaoo
Ok if he did why does he still rank MJ over lbj?
@@jstoudanime1880 because it's truth everyone knows mj is the goat. Who is taken seriously in the media who calls lebron the goat? Nobody take Shannon or nick Wright seriously as nba analysts. They're only respected by lebron fans
@@jstoudanime1880 because hes not a full blown idiot would be my guess
Bron fans are genuinely weird.
He’s a Lebron fan just bc he discovered evidence? You Jordan fans are weird. Lebron lives mortgage free in y’all head 😂
U clearly mad 😂😂😂
Haberstroh has MJ as GOAT. The fact that Jordan fans just dismiss this which is laced with facts, when even Broussard said Haberstroh is legit, is very telling about how disingenuous MJ fans truly are.
@@alonzojones9626 circumstantial evidence. Those full 88 games from Jordan are barely around. Mainly only highlights, except for the playoff games.
@@BeeN-fy2jh yea on CZcams it’s rarely any full games from then. I’m sure the NBA has full games on tape somewhere
So are you guys going to believe a dude that research says that Rudy Gay is more clutch that Dirk Nowitzki and Kobe Bryant?
You can go back and watch the games
@@MWTA312 DOn't worry, I will I want to find the game where MJ got more steals than the opposing team turned the ball over. Because that game doesn't exist on Basketball Reference. According to Nick Wrong MJ was credited 28 steals when he only got 12! The problem I see is that MJ never got 12 steals. The most he ever got was 10. So what game did MJ get more steal than the other team turned over the ball
@@sonnywoods6846He was credited with 26 steals for period of 6 games. I know reading is hard but you should try and do it, article is easily available
MJ fans are unbelievable, no matter what you present them, they won't change their minds.
Facts over feelings boys. MJ stats are stat padded but you all are covering your ears
@@MWTA312Did this dude watch all 82 games of that season? Because he knows nobody would waste their time to find old VHS videos of all 82 games in '88 and watch them.
I don't know what Tom Haberstroh is trying to argue here -> 28:24 If your teammate deflects the ball and you recover it, you get the credit for the steal, just like in football, when a lineman deflects the ball, and a defensive back catches it, he gets the credit for interception.
Great point ❤❤
Two different sports
that’s not how it works
@@dotleijeudy1397 Point stands. Like game 5 in Jordan comeback season when Nick Anderson knocked away the ball from Jordan from behind, but Penny Hardaway got credit for the steal.
@@cwavvvy3450 That's literally how it works.
The nephews are really trying to tarnish the GOAT'S resume. Not gonna happen.
Lebron?
It is tarnished , what else were they rigging?
@@marianoortega6725oh look an idiot
@@dadillonfulonly idiots think it is
Nobody say anything about the bubble gum ring LeBum won and it’s factual the players didn’t want to be there and the league was so scared to let the Suns play because they would’ve had to face the Lakers in the first round! Why I say this is because the Suns went undefeated and went to the finals the next year!
As a long listener of the Dan lebatard show I know that any basketball person associated with the show are LeBron guys. Tom haberstroh is just that, so take it with a grain of salt
Then I should start listening to that show because because they are truth tellers
@@ogreen28 if u think truth telling is slighting every player not named LeBron, Wade, and udonis haslem
@@keysersoze6506 that's perfect. Im on my way then, good day sir
This is the same man who showed a stat that Dirk was more clutch than Kobe. The stat was true but Rudy Gay was number 1 ahead of Dirk and Kobe. He tried arguing with T Mac that Dirk was better but not Rudy Gay. I think this guy is nothing but a shock jock
Dirk Lewinsky is more clutch than Kobe. Kobe does not have a high shooting percentage in the clutch. That’s very well-known. Do you understand who Dirk was?
@@Hunt9-qb1if lol percentage doesn't mean much if Kobe took way more clutch shots. Are you saying you would prefer having Dirk in the church over Kobe
Ppl are wildin to think LeBron aint been on that Lance Armstrong 2.0
How your wife and homie get caught up with Balco, but you don't know anything? 😂
Exactly
so instead of evidence in front of you, you want to create narrativesmakes sense
@@gnarcissuss I can't even follow what you're trying to convey.
It’s crazy they’ll sweep lebron steroid allegations under the rug but use 6 games to prove Jordan numbers not accurate and it’s big news lmao foh. I never seen the greatest player of any sport get tore down like this lol smh
@@gnarcissuss6 games lol. They just said you can take away the DPOY and it wouldn’t matter lmao. The only person in the top ten with a dpoy is dream lol. No way in hell you make a case Jordan is the goat just cause of his dpoy lol
The whole team other than Kobe went to the club, not just Melo.
The article clearly states that this sort of thing was common back then, which means everyone Jordan was competing against for DPOY also had juiced numbers, so that means it was a level playing field. Does deflate gate make Brady not the GOAT quarterback? No. And similarly this doesn’t have any impact on Jordan’s GOAT status.
Jordan isn't an official cheater.
Why would deflate gate matter when they shut out the colts in the 2nd half and it's proven that it wasn't true by Mike florio?
@@keysersoze6506 why would stat stuffing for Jordan matter if everyone he was competing against for DPOY also had juiced numbers?
Don’t make stuff up guy, the article does not say this was a common thing back then, Jordan’s numbers were far more inflated than anyone in history that one year, then returned to normal. It’s indisputable evidence that the media CREATED his 1988 foogazi DPOY, no it’s not going to change the goat debate, but it invalidates that award for Jordan which people LOVE to bring up all the time. “Where’s LBJ’s DPOY”?
@@F_letc.heveryone didn’t
This is something us LBJ fans have been saying for years. MJ's career would be viewed VERY differently if it was covered w/ Lebron-level scrutiny. This is evidence of that. His career was viewed with so little relative scrutiny that u could literally cook his stats and ppl wouldn't even know.
Look at Jordans numbers, the seasons before and after 88. So what about those years?
They didn’t research them yet. But I’m sure everything will be looked at now. Sad.
His numbers the following year in 1989 were back to normal and similar to league wide totals. In short, the 1988 year was clearly cooked in favor of Jordan
@@LL-zm9go and in 87
I've said this in other comments, I'll say again front and center here. Show me how the league "inflated" MJs six 3s and 35 points in a single half against the blazers? Show me how they "lied" about him stealing the ball from Karl, and hitting the final shot to beat the Jazz. The NBA must have had invisible wires for him to dunk from the free throw line. That right hand, to left hand layup over the Lakers. The countless other last second shots. All of his iconic dunks, layups and tough fadeaways. Or his highest PPG average in the regular season AND playoffs. You know, points ... The thing that's nearly impossible to fake, cuz you have an entire arena of witnesses for both teams.
Stat inflation sucks. But it hangs over LOTS of players throughout league history. From John Stockton, to Barkley... Definitely don't take a close look at some of the assists and rebounds LeBron gets credited for. Another CZcams channel has already shown how LeBron has gotten extra assists and rebounds in games. Other people mention the travels and carries that all players get away with now as well. So, Chris is totally wrong about that. It's just more subtle... For example, an "assist" even though the other player isolates, dribbles and penetrates to the hoop. Or a tap of the ball to another player counting as a rebound for Bron. Meanwhile if AD does the same thing but Bron catches it, it counts as a rebound to LeBron. This happens man.
So, if anyone thinks this article is "shocking" then keep the same energy for players now. And Tom better check every game available, for every player throughout all of NBA history 🙄 not just cherry pick the one DPOY season that MJ has over LeBron.
So... With an exclamation point, NO!--this will not affect MJs legacy. It'll just be a temporary distraction from the clutch sports clowns like Nick 🤡
I'm tired of this Narrative of Lebron wanted that DPOY award and that he's mad he never got it. No one stopped him from playing defense after his tenure in Miami..
I believe Jordan was a runner-up another year and third on another year so he was consistently one of the best defensive players
I’m a fan of LeBron, but this is some hating ish.
No it's not it's things from the past coming to light
@@flawless39 True or not if you watched how he played both sides of the ball back then and how he was relentless on defense there is no way you could argue he didn't still deserve defense player of the year then or in other years. I don't like it if thats what was done but if they were doing it for everyone its still a level playing field.
@@jreturns4756 yeah I watch them play but I also seen the competition and it's not hard to go back and watch full games and I just don't think you can compare arrows I mean the competition was a lot weaker the guys were slower the demographic in the league is not the same as what it is today, the talent pool today is way better because back then you pretty much just had USA players versus today where you got worldwide talent which makes the talent pool so much better. And you just didn't have a lot of big wings back then like you do today a lot of big athletic Skywalker wings today so of course you're going to look super great against talent like that but would you look like that against people that can match you? Things were fabricated and people have to accept it.
I'll say this I've never seen Michael Jordan guard 1 through 5 and actually get stops on one through five. I've seen LeBron be put on a point guard and shut them down, I seen LeBron be on a 2,3,4 and 5 and shut them down. I can't say the same for MJ because Scotty was that guy for that team and then Rodman came and Scotty and Rodman were the best defenders on that team.
Not saying Jordan wasn't great because he was but anybody can look far better than what they actually was if the competition don't match up to what it is today
It's like Carl Lewis racing guys back then he looked way better than most guys but today if you put Carl Lewis against these sprinters in the last 15 years he's not finishing in the top eight. It's called evolution
That Kobe take about him not being athletically gifted is the biggest piece of bs I’ve ever heard lmfao
He means compared to Michael Jordan or Lebron. Lebron is not even close to MJ athletically unless you count longevity. Kobe's advantage was his will.
WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT LEBRON JAMES is bigger stronger faster than Jordan ....FOH HATER
@@universityoffree Cmon bro. Have you not seen young Lebron? Dude could jump nearly as high and had the explosive first step of MJ.
@@templr44_ Lebron is top 3-5 athletic freak I've seen in the NBA. MJ or maybe Shaq is number 1. If you factor in Lebron's longevity it becomes a discussion.
It’s how that era basketball 🏀 was statically calculated. Just as today players travel and carry the ball. 🏀 but that’s acceptable in this era.
Tom works for klutch... Enough said. If he wants to talk about validity, let's talk about balco... One day we'll have that conversation over he retires
On the road in 1988 jordan averaged 3.0 steals even if he played all 82 games on the road jordan still would have had 246 steals that season lechoke blames never had a 200 steals season
Jordan is a choke art couldn’t even get out 1st round with out Pippen. Y’all don’t talk about that. Jordan will never have as many assists, rebounds, blocked shots as LeBron so what does that say about mj
@@narrowminded_Reggie_W.T.L. It says LeBron played forever duh. The Pippen thing is so stupid to mention when Bron had to pair up with 2 other top 10 guys in they're prime to win anything. First in Miami then he left to join Kyrie and Kevin Love. At least MJ didn't hop from team to team looking for the easiest path every few years.
@@narrowminded_Reggie_W.T.L. It says he focused on winning instead of stat padding. You think PIppen is better than Dwade, AD, Kyrie? Now let's throw in Bosh, Love, Allen, Rondo, Westbrook, Howard, etc. This is a joke.
@narrowminded_Reggie_W.T.L. and in the 88 season pippien averaged 7ppg In the reg season I'm the playoffs 1st round 10ppg while jordan averaged 45ppg in the 1st round
@@narrowminded_Reggie_W.T.L. and lebum missed the playoffs his first 2 seasons
I've noticed the NBA has been juicing assists since the mid 2010s. I've even heard Kenyon mention on gils arena years after when i noticed it. Will there be an article exposing how players are given assists when the assist time has passed within the possession??
Who do you think has benefitted the most from shady assist totals?
The top 2 played for the Lakers last season (22-23).
@@rastaoiiii Westbrook and LeBron. It was a league wide thing but it's a bad look overall. What's really bad is that on 2k, an actual video game, it's the exact opposite. Make the pass attempt a move and that assist chance is dead. It's sad
@@keysersoze6506so video games are more legit than the real product.
I was just talking abt that the assit total is all jacked up... but that one of .any things that foul abt this era..
The traveling and carrying and the moving screens... these dudes need to have a seat 💺 somewhere
@@vernonherb if and when there is an article exposing that, it won't be a LeBron guy
Trying to justify Kobe at second because Kobe didn’t have size or hops? Lol bruh he was the same height as Jordan.
Jordan still was dpoy cause everybody stats was inflated there has to be somebody who deserved it more which nobody did
Hakeem's weren't that season
@@fica1137how weren’t they? This was “common practice” as stated from the former statistician. Don’t be bias and pick and choose. They all benefitted, so even playing field 🤷🏽♂️
@@misterslab4287 In 1987-88 season Hakeem had 4.8 blocks + steals per 36 minutes at home and 4.78 on the road. That's 1% difference. Jordan had 80% difference.
In LeBron James second finals he scored two points in three fourth quarters
Lebron also won a finals series when he led both teams in scoring, rebounds & assist. What’s your point?
@@alonzojones9626does that erase his failures just asking?
@@alonzojones9626he's no Jordan and never will be. He's Len Bias of the 00s. They're been pushing to find someone better than Jordan since the 80s. 😂
@@TheRealMichaelPare we going pretend like jordan never failed?
The Burger King boys always finding new ways to get laughed at!
so the reason lebalco scored 8 pts in a finals game was because the scorers were "cooking the books"?... i'm just trying to figure out what nick wright and haberstroh are saying here ...
Jordan finished top 5 in DPOY 7 times in his last 9 full seasons with the Bulls - between1988 and 1998. So winning DPOY in 1988 is not some extreme outlier season.
Lmao 🤣 these dudes. Why go out your way to discredit MJ? He’s lead the league in steals multiple times and one of the best shot blocking guards of all time. This push to discredit athletes of the past is getting sad. Growing up we respected past athletes accomplishments and legacy in their era. Ppl now can’t follow sports without being cringe
The guy that did it grew up in that time. He aint tryna discredit he just pointing out facts. He probably still got mike as the 🐐
@@richierich4330 you don’t know if he stating facts. He’s questioning if Jordan deserved DPOY. Sounds like he wants to discredit Jordan’s DPOY to me. There’s no validity to what he’s trying to accomplish. You’ll have to do that for every player ever to had won an award then. There’s no conspiracy to give guys extra stats in the box score.
@brickmoney4152 it's not a conspiracy if it's true. I've heard multiple ppl sat it. And if he was just doing it on Mike then you'd have a point. But he said Stockton is next. He even said Bill and Wilts rebounds were like that. Mike is just the bigger name but it ain't just him they lookin at
@@richierich4330 he can’t prove they purposely inflated stats. Mind you this is over 30 yrs ago. What’s the basis for this, to make serious allegations for fun? It’s always stats that require double checking, certain plays that happen that are 50/50. You’re supposed to deal with those plays after the game, that week, that season. Not 30 plus yrs later. He’s not a NBA official he’s a yahoo reporter. Another thing is he says he thinks it stopped when Adam Silver became commissioner in 2014. So if we questioning Jordan’s stats we have to question every players stats up to 2014-15. Can’t just pick out Jordan home stats, You gotta question Lebron’s, Kobe’s,Shaq, Garnett, Iverson, Malone, Nash, Etc… I mean if you think about who was drafted before ‘14 , it’s some of the greatest players ever. Even if they boosted stats , Stockton was an assist machine, still all time assist leader by miles. Jordan still was an all time great defender at the guard position any way you slice it.
Old head alert. Players generally get better over time, if you can't accept this it's time for retirement where there is clouds for you to yell at
Take away all of Rudy Goberts awards, that's the real joke
Damn, facts
That ain't even clos eti a joke lol. Was all voted on and you can't deny he's the best defender inside the paint for many years
@@nassiglutt6587 But a terrible defender in the playoffs! Rudy is the most undeserving DPOY in history!!!!!!
@@nicotoscani1984 every bigman matched with a terrific guard outside the paint is a terrible defender. That's virtually a mismatch. It's why the smaller ones like green and Rodman was seen as those who can guard every position cus they're quicker. Teams have to scheme for the center out of his comfort zone and draw him outside. That's how you beat a paint defender
@@nassiglutt6587 Rudy Gobert is just not good bro lol. Can't move his feet and is god awful offensively
Jordan is the most scrutinized player ever. Even after 2 decades since he's retired from the league, we have guys going on a witch hunt to tear down his legacy.
Absolutely false. No he is not
Max Kellerman predicted this years ago when he said LeBron can't catch MJ legitimately and the only way to do it is to try to pull him down. LeBron has a lot of people on payroll in the media trying to convince you that you didn't see what you saw with MJ.
Is this writer going to discredit MJs 9x defensive 1st team too? Every year there is a debate on who was snubbed from the allstar game, robbed of an MVP, DPOY, and the list goes on. MJ was always in the conversation for best defensive player. His offense overshadowed his defensive skills.
Marc Gasol was robbed of 1st Team All Defense in 2013.
Exactly!! Lebron the narcissist and the pro lebron media focus on him not winning DPOY but don’t talk bout Marc gasol being robbed
No he wasn’t
@@Allenalle2337Gasol wasn’t 1st team all defense
How was he robbed when bron had more votes lmao that makes your argument worst how tf you dpoy but not the best at your position that year?
@@kingmunchtv Tyson Chandler was one the first team over Gasol
Shrugs 86-87 through 90-91 he was between 2.7 and 3.2 steals a game. The year before his DPOTY he averaged 1.5 blocks per game instead of 1.6 blocks per game. Not like there’s much difference between the 2 years.
Also on the road in Boston the year after his DPOTY he had 9 steals and 2 blocks along with 52 points.
Which is why I don't understand why he didn't make an all defensive team that year.... in a lot of ways 87 was better than 88
@@vernonherbbecause Bulls were 8th seed that year, media voted for DPOY and coaches voted for DPOY. That's why Alvin Robertson won DPOY as 2nd team All defense with 35-47 record
He still was the better defensive player that season. Who spends hours watching Jordan’s games in 1988 to calculate the number of steals he made. Doesn’t matter. He was defensive player of the year
It should've been Hakeem. You sound salty that MJ numbers were cooked up 🤣🤦🏾♂️
"It all falls down" lol
@@flawless39 but Hakeems numbers were also Inflated... the dude said EVERY HOME TEAM WAS DOING IT...but Hakeem isn't in the GOAT debate so they not looking for him...
So one did the math and if the away games are an indication of his truth stats he stil would have had 200 steals and 100 blocks
@@vernonherbJordan had the biggest difference out of any player ever but just for that season. Though out of his opponents for the award Hakeem's stats were fine and Eaton's appear cooked though on lesser degree
@@fica1137they only looked at the differential of the people who won the DPOY not every player ever.
This guy is not Rob Parker.
Bring back Rob Parker.
Damn did Chris get that piece of chicken? All that diggin he’s doing.
Exactly 😂
He has to be just chewing on it lmfao
So now do we have to go back and verify every John Stockton assists in a record breaking season 🤔 After all these years, someone is raising questions about an award he won once😳😂 so let’s review the season Russ averaged a triple double 🤔 Favorable stat keeping at home vs on the road, really that is something new🤣🤣
Or review last 2 lakers season i just can't figure out for the life of me how they have 3 or 4 times the assist than any other team. Its almost like the nba is propping up a certain athlete
Lebron is a great, great player but this latest attempt tearing down MJs defense is embarrassing.
I watched him play live and on tv from the mid-80s through the end of his career with the bulls and continued to watch countless nba players in the same way for decades: he is easily a top 3 wing defender in the modern era. His footwork, hand quickness, tenacity, and understanding of where to be on the court, defensively, was phenomenal. When he and Pippen turned it up and picked people 3/4 to 1/2 court man-to-man you were totally screwed. Honestly most of the times I saw Jordan play I think he was also the best pure defensive player in the league for years.
I don’t really have an emotional preference as I’ve seen Lebron play forever and he’s also phenomenal. But I think his longevity is augmenting his case in these conversations rather than his actual impact. Take away the balco steroids (come on people do you really think this is just genetics, hard work and investing in his body) and he wouldn’t still be playing at such a high level at near 40. It’s pretty shady what this guy seems to be willing to do in order to cast his legacy (including having his own propaganda network).
Not buying it. Sorry. (And yes I do think he’s great).
I officially nvr wanna hear ephraim talk about basketball again. Someone in their 40s saying Kobe is better than lebron is comical. And the reasons he gives are the equivalent of “he had that dog in him”. That’s not a factual argument sir. Kobe has a losing record against lebron and lesser stats. He also had a better team than him most of those years. Thank you Chris for being an actual basketball watcher
Thank you dude takes our garbage
What a dumb comment, so KD has a better record against LEBRON and won mvp in the finals over LeBron. Guess KD is better than LeBron, to huh, and LeBron had 2 of the 75 greatest all-time players in NBA history with AD, and Dwayne and Kobe only had Paul Gasol at best made 2 first team all-star selection in his career gtfoh it's a fact LeBron had more all-star teammates than Mj and Kobe.
@@darrelljones3850 KD does not have a winning record against lebron lol. Y’all can bring up lebron teammates all u want. Kobe demanded a trade on live tv cuz he had lebron type teams for too long. At least lebron fulfills his contracts out. The audacity of someone coming into the league with shaq as a teammate, crying on national tv when things get tough. Guess that was that dog in him.
@dariusthegr8one81 your comment suck let compare Kobe without Shaq and LeBron without Dwayne Kobe went to three straight finals and won back to back championship while LeBron never won back to back championship without Dwayne Wade and LeBron will go down the only Lakers star to only win a bubble championship in his career as a Lakers.
@@darrelljones3850 Kobe had a better team than lebron a third of his career. The two years he didn’t while in his prime. He cried to the media and demanded a trade. Kobe stans disgust me with their absent memories of this.
If this is a common practice, I don't see what the big deal is. You'd have to scrutinize everyone under consideration.
Big deal is they hate jordan
@@jeffythecreator467no people hate jordan fans...he never lost a game....mj was great and still is great I hate his fans
Discrepancy is 182% higher for Jordan. The others are only 50% higher
@@ryankayombya7576 probably 800% higher for MJ or why stop there. just make it a million times greater for MJ. And the sports writers all made their decisions solely on those stats.
I think they should chill out cuase this is a smack back in the face for this era..
You see how they allow ppl to get assit AFTER the person they passed it to get dribbles and makes A basketball move... its crazy 🤪.... then they want to Nick pick Jordan and now John Stockton becuase lebron is moving up in the assits game...
I’m telling u now if the NBA is influencing the stats for their benefit they gonna end up getting sued, cause a lot of us feel like we been getting cheated out our prop bets
Maybe don’t gamble and spend that time/ money with your family
The NBA is an entertainment group. Cant sue them
Yo
I love MJ too, but tell me you hate LeBron without saying you hate LeBron 😅😅😅
January 29 1988 is the ONLY game when Jordan had 10 steals in the 87-88 season and it was against the NEW JERSEY NETS and they had 22 turnovers. All of the game logs are on basketball reference. The most blockes he had in a game that year was 5
Kobe and Jordan did the dunk contest and won!!! If LeBron would have did the dunk contest oooooooo my goodness,,,, LeBron will tell us when he retires if he regrets not doing it,,, it's hard because you do the greatest show for all-star weekend and you got to win the chip afterwards
I would like to hear what Rob Parker has to say on this
I'm no Bird apologist but I love how Broussard loves to bring up the 8-8-12 point games in the 81 Finals. What he doesn't tell you is Boston won 2 of those 3 games and both wins were blowouts. To shoot him a little bail, the one loss was a close game.
Yeah and this is a year TWO Bird, not the 3 consecutive mvp guy in his absolutely prime, funny how he doesn't bring up Bird leading the team in rebounds and assists that finals while being 2nd in scoring
If they cooked the books. It was not Michael Jordan doing it. He was above everyone in the league on both sides of the court. The best offense and defense player in the league.
I respect ephraim stay giving Kobe his credit 💪🏾
Mike was the best player ever and Kobe literally mimicked him with every skill. Do I think he’s the 2nd best ever maybe but he’s definitely better than lebron
We don't care about Habestroh and his fugazi article. He could write 60,000 words. Jordan still the DPOY and Undisputed 🐐
For whatever reason, jordan stans hate when a truth comes out about Jordan.
A channel called angry hoops fan literally went through less than a quarter of a lakers game and lebron was credited with a block that wasn’t his and had 2 TOV that weren’t counted. Now this guy got some VHS tapes from a guy in Latvia that us fans cannot find online or anywhere to check ourselves and there were only 6 supposed game tapes. Smells funny.
Don't lose sleep waiting for any other reports regarding players because this has clutch sports all over it.. the writer still says Jordan was the best defender lol
I stopped watching after the great value young jeezy said Kobe is better than lebron
Bye lol
4-6Bum Klutch sports Spence day and night trying to tarnish Michael Jordan's legacy, LeBron lost six times in the finals doesn't have a DPOY people in hell want ice water he will never be better than Jordan deal with it
But some people have different opinions of LeBron being better their opinion is invalid he lost six times math is not an opinion
jordan quit on his team, NBA nd basketball community…. twice right? just saying. MJ couldn’t hit a 3 to save his life so he can’t be the goat😂
@@kydrekalexander7464-6😂😂😂
@@kydrekalexander746and when you wake up he will still be listed as the greatest player on the NBA site itself and every other site on planet Earth😂
@@kydrekalexander746 how many times did he get swept in the finals LOL😂😂😂😂😂
Jordan averaged 200+ steals and 100+ blocks the season prior, but I believe they gave it to Michael Cooper. So stocks ain't the reason he won DPOY.
Saying Lebron is more skilled than Kobe is blasphemy
Lol this is a joke
I didn’t know Chris was a Klutch client
Why is this even a thing….is this common place among sports journalists…going back 30 years to analyze one player’s stats, yes I know, he referenced others but Jordan clearly was the inspiration for the article
Jordan played defense and others didn't
It cracks me up that the common player can't figure out winning formula be a good scoring and play intense defence.
If kawhi could stay healthy he'd dominate.
They are doing everything they can to disrespect Michael Jordan as a man in human being now it's beyond basketball. The sin of envy and jealousy, mad that he is the golden standard of basketball,.
His stats were faked, how dumb are you?
nobody is beyond criticism. MJ left the game in the middle of his prime, punched teammates and black balled one of the greatest PGs ever…. that’s not the gold standard… yall just so in awe that his flaws and wrong doings is ignored
@@kydrekalexander746 left the game in the middle of his prime and he's still clearly goat. That's embarrassing for other players lmao
@@kydrekalexander746 nobody cares about him punching a teammate except beta males. I bet you're voting for 6iden lmao
If they got proof of his stats being juiced how is it that trying to disrespect him?? Its a disrespect to the game of basketball and the integrity of the game. Too many MJ guys just gonna see this as a "shot" at him opposed too acknowledging its true.
people are so funny being shocked by this, guess what, it still happens today. Most often with assists, watch a game and pick one player and track the stats yourself, 9 times out of 10 they will have higher official stats than what you counted
Edit: Chris is a Klutch client. Wtf
Tom is a big time lebron guy when you look him up. It's important to know who these "journalists" are.
So this guy finds a Russian with vhs tapes from 88 and watched 5 games and came to the conclusion that only the home team cooked numbers and no one ever removed numbers from opposing players.
So there's tons that are MJ 'guys.' Goes both ways. It's crazy important for the MJ side to demand that everyone believe he's the Goat.
@@greggibson33 More people already think he is the GOAT based on the big polls, but it’s mostly Bron fans trying to get him to be seen as the GOAT.
Lebron shouldnt have won ROTY, it should have been Melo!
10000%
Rob Parker had a heart attack when he read this 😂
Just look at how people get assists in today's game. I feel sorry for the people that didn't see Jordan play. You had to be there.
People can lie to big up LeBron James but that 2011 finals will be the biggest stain on his goat argument period
I am not hear to defend james all players have stains on their resume...magic was tragic because of turnovers, bird had 8 pts in 2 finals series mj had 19 pts after he scored 63 pts in the boston garden
The biggest stain on Lebron Jame's career was that he quit and went to Miami. To be honest losing to Dallas helped him in a strange way because people felt like he got what he deserved and didn't resent him winning the year after as much. Otherwise, he might be looked at like KD winning and no one respecting it.
@@universityoffreehe was a free agent lol.
By idiots..mavs had defense
@@Ross601MS Nobody said it was against the rules. It was just against the unwritten rules of competition. You don't wimp out, stack the deck, and expect people to call you the greatest. In what world does that happen?
Scrolling thru these comments looking at all the grown ass men out here writing paragraphs and emotional over this 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Scrolling through the comments pretending not to care while posting all those dumbass emojis like a twelve-year-old girl.
Any cheat in the game of any sport shouldnt be accepted. Football, baseball, boxing. We can't give excuses for common behaviors if its still illegal.
Anyone who put Kobe second ranks with emotions.
30 minute video?!!! Hahahahaha 😂😂😂😂😂
MJ’s legacy on the line and here come the avengers 😂. Too good!!
You’re ridiculous if you think his legacy is on the line. But go off kid
his "legacy is on the line"?
dude are you high?
game 4 of the 2011 finals
@@DynoGreen313 @TheGreatest54646 and here y’all came as i said to defend MJ 😂😂😂. Obviously this isn’t enough to put his legacy on the line but it is big enough for them to defend him for 30 minutes. Sometimes the internet is a place to where you can joke around and make fun of others.
@@Yakkii people who love the truth will tend to respond when br@ns@xuals lie and dissemble in an attempt to prop up their failing god
@@Yakkii people who love the truth will tend to respond when br@ns@xuals lie and dissemble in an attempt to prop up their failing god
i mean are saying we can only respond if YOU approve why shouldnt we respond if we want to? this all began when lebalco lied and said he was 'the goat'... before that no one even compared the two because its obviously silly since jordan is OBVIOUSLY a better player
ANALYTICS bites again😅
I dont like people tearing down one player to exhault another.
Is it just me or is everyone exhausted by Chris B’s circular dissertations that never really make a point or even take any specific position.
EXHAUSTING.
I watch this show because Rob is entertaining. They shouldn’t even do the show when Rob is out.
Chris loves to hear himself talk. I guess that's why he almost became a preacher so he could spew hot air.
Agree. He says a ton words that amount to nothing.
ah makes a lot of sense now, Broussard is represented by Klutch, makes so much more sense now
Man hears facts
Man chooses to ignore facts
😂😂