Two Faces of Narcissistic Abuse: Disrespect From Shared Fantasy to Bargaining (starts at
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- čas přidán 21. 09. 2020
- Topic starts at 20:35. Their abuse leads to betrayal, breakup, & mortification - but narcissists are too dumb to get it.
One of the most confusing aspects of narcissism: identical behaviors have entirely different psychodynamic etiologies. Consider, for example the connection between abuse & parentifying the intimate partner.
A conundrum: the narcissist tries to convert people in his life into parental figures - but this only recreates, re-enacts & triggers unresolved childhood conflicts, retraumatizes him, & opens old wounds.
From women, the narcissist wants any 2 of these 3 Ss: supply (sadistic & narcissistic), sex (adventures, a playmate), & services (mother, PA, housekeeper).
From men, he wants both supply (sadistic & narcissistic) & services (business).
Outside these transactions, he expects to be left completely alone, to his own devices & to do as he pleases (schizoid).
Since no one will agree to these terms, he has to fake emotions & commitment & make false promises (within the narrative of a shared fantasy). This is the grooming & lovebombing honeymoon phase. It makes its appearance as much in business & the workplace as in romantic courtship.
Once the target (source) is acquired, the narcissist sees no reason to continue his act. He reveals his true agenda: to extract adulation (narcissistic supply), abuse & humiliate (sadistic supply), engage in sadistic sex (with women), & demand services & beneficial outcomes (such as money, celebrity, access, or power).
There are 2 phases in the narcissist’s relationships in which he tends to be egregiously & cruelly abusive: during the shared fantasy & in the interstitial or bargaining stages. Put together, these two forms of maltreatment constitute the narcissist’s two-pronged approach-avoidance repetition compulsion.
Only the abuse in the shared fantasy phase is a recreation of the original conflict (archaic wound, V-spot) with his mother & it is, therefore, compulsive, even, at times, unconscious.
The subsequent abuse during the interstitial or bargaining phase is entirely different: it is instrumental & goal-focused.
Once the mask had slipped & the narcissist’s true face & intentions are exposed, both men and women feel bemused, deceived, angry (mad, furious), disappointed, heartbroken, & made fools of.
They start to mourn the relationship (Kubler-Ross stages of grief) and go through denial, anger, bargaining (they pose demands, are pushed away & he absents himself), depression (when deceitful cheating occurs) & gacceptance, when they all end up walking away from him &, often, also retaliate (women by cheating on him egregiously & ostentatiously & men by smearing him, replacing him with others, and absconding with his ideas and intellectual property).
To get rid of both men and women in the bargaining phase, the narcissist abuses & undermines the intimacy or the collaboration, thus pushing people to:
1. Replace him (cheat on him, in case of women); and 2. Abandon him (he pushes them away).
Unlike in the Shared Fantasy Phase, such repelling behavior in the bargaining phase is not a repetition compulsion involving early trauma and conflicts with his mother or father: it is an MO that applies to men, women, && even to collectives, authority figures, & authorities (schools, army, workplaces, even countries).
But the outcomes of this ineluctable process are different for men & women:
When women cheat on the heterosexual narcissist and abandon him (or abandon & then replace him with other men), it ends up recreating the trauma with his mother & results in mortification.
Only women have this power.
Men can only cause him extreme narcissistic injury coupled with aggression, externalized or interiorized (depression). Most often they humiliate him & then walk away to team up with others.
People - men and women alike - are a burden & a drain on the narcissist’s energy for two reasons: 1. He regards them as inferior & holds them in contempt 2. He resents his total dependence on them.
To summarize:
Women cheat on the narcissist, deceive & betray him, & then abandon him owing only to his abuse & lack of commitment & investment in the dyad.
Abuse during shared fantasy ALWAYS leads to deceitful or discreet cheating, usually with casual partners. All of them strive to maintain the relationship after the cheating for self-interested reasons.
The cheating is intended to satisfy their panoply of profoundly unmet emotional and physical needs even as they keep on keeping on & futilely sue and hope for commitment and investment on the narcissist’s part.
As the abuse continues unabated also during the failed bargaining phase, it leads to ostentatious cheating and betrayal (usually with intimate friends) as a part of retaliatory abandonment.
The narcissist facilitates this misconduct with his uninterrupted abuse as an attempt to regain a faux sense of mastery & to delusionally reframe an impending external mortification as an internal one.
I cried through this whole video. It sadly described the last 5 years of my life. I feel so confused, lost, robbed, cheated, and mostly abused. What gives them the right to think they are godly like? I once loved my narcissistic person so much that I gave him everything, literally, including my mind and soul. But as I watch this I feel hate towards him now.
Ugh... my marriage. But, unless I went through this, I wouldn't have understood... No possible warning I would have heeded. Thank you Sam. Thank you. I am divorced and out from his nightmare. I think of all of your videos and explanations, THIS one is IT for me. Superb
Narcissists do not care if their supply comes negatively, so long as it comes. They would rather have a rage fight with you than have no attention at all.
Such a relief to hear you say "no one goes into a relationship wanting to hurt and eventually abandon the person who you fell in love with" I had battled with this and this refusal to abandon the narcissist kept me trapped mentally. Now with a little understanding I can set myself free. Thank you Sam.
I am most intrigued by the teaching in Vaknin’s other video where he says “narcissism is contagious”. I suffered so much with codependency at the beginning of my 6 year relationship, then believing there would be change, feeling some improvement which only created a loop of high-highs and low-lows… I definitely resonate with feeling like I would numb out to my partner, treating him with less and less empathy, because I was angry and felt controlled while unseen and unheard. The boiling points would motivate me to leave the relationship, but the “toxic tennis” as I like to call the emails, texts, chats, all the usual communication that occurred to get me back, would be my “opportunity” to be as dispassionate and ruthless with his crocodile tears as I felt he treated me. Eventually, not being a narcissist, the anger would subside and I would consider he’d suffered enough and prayed he finally “heard me”. Ugh. There are levels to all of this and after years in the loop, I felt narcissistic, sadistic, dark… I did not like myself, I did not like the defensive courtroom language I had to adopt in that environment. There was NO growth, use of true intelligence though he thought he was the most intelligent man in our city. I am single and severing that attachment with everything I can so that I never repeat this lesson again.
All I can say it is very complex, I am glad I'm out of it. I divorced my covert narcissist husband 2 months ago. I loved him but my mind could not comprehend this craziness. I'm 50 years old and I hope I find a normal man one day.
The parenting procedure didn’t feel that weird to me. What’s most strange and sad is that it doesn’t work anyway for him. It never works and he will have to rid himself of the same partner that he tried so hard to attain. Always failure. Always destroys the situation even if he got his partner to agree. That’s crazy. He CANNOT allow success in his relationships. That is not what they are for. His relationships are only for continuous self torture, self loathing and to reenact his unfortunate childhood. And unfortunately, you, as an appliance, are along for the ride.
You clarifed a 36 yr relationship. Thank you. For years I thought I was loosing my mind, the last time he threatened to leave, I said bye.
Understanding sadistic supply, explains everything...
Once we’re aware, it’s unbelievable how red the flags are. How clearly they tell on themselves (projection) but we’re too busy trying to keep our feet on the ground to see it. Ex’s only nickname for me was Mom, we don’t have kids together and he’s 15 years older than me, so it felt weird and I asked him not to call me that. You all already know he only called me Mom from that moment on.
I met my husband online ten years ago and thought we were lucky to have met each other. When I told my sister about him, I described him as " too good to be true," which should have been a massive red flag! Mind you; there were more red flags along the way. In my defense, he's a professional manipulator! Plus, I thought I finally found the love of my life. We've been married for almost eight years, and only five years, we lived in a peaceful fantasy before the mask started falling off. Although I was not ready for a child, he tried to force me into having one sooner. It was a strange feeling as if he had no understanding or respect for my decision, so I waited until I was mentally ready to take on motherhood, and now we have a wonderful son.
I only saw his 'lost child' and as long as he kept up his therapy I felt there was hope, so i stayed. I hated being made into his mother and taking the rage he had for her. I knew it was about HER past behaviour but I couldn't leave him, he 'needed' me.
Never met someone so amazing and yet painfully stupid at the same time (my narc). I never understood his behavior until I came across your videos.
I remember you being the first online. I found your site out of desperation to understand my husband. Got your book, divorced, became a psychologist, help others with your work. Thanks for everything. Glad your work is continuing!!!!
Fascinating - as I lived it. So glad to be done with the crazy! The first rage moment - I had no idea what was happening!!!!!! Then no sex, then resentment, then rage out of nowhere over dinner choices........OMG! Never any happiness EVER. I have learned so much. Pathetic, Cowardly, Sad and Hollow. The reading of emotional cues - so on point. I questioned in my head - that reaction didn't make sense at all! Sam V - why didn't I find you sooner! LOL I am healing and on a much greater path. Peace, L
My heart goes out to all the ppl that have had to deal narcs, and have actually been married to them🤦. I guess I'm lucky in a way, I've had 2 narcs in my life that just that kept coming in for short periods of time, obliterating my life, and leaving, never committing. ( Thank god). I've never been married because of that, coz I simply don't trust any man.., my heart is paralysed ..I've since stopped the cycle, after discovering recently that one of them has antisocial personality disorder.. I'm currently healing from that trauma, and I'm never going back to that soul shattering nightmare ever again. I truely wish everyone that's been through this devastation in their lives nothing but peace, love and complete healing ❤
I am so done with the narcissistic soulless man because I became aware of all this as I learned as the relationship collapsed
I knew that narcissists need attention and don’t like to be ignored. I didn’t know that the reason they can’t change is because they’re stupid. But that makes a lot of sense. Their stupidity keeps them from learning and changing.
"Causing pain to another person implies that he has the power to cause pain to another person". Thats right. Its all about power so the can believe the image they use to idealize themselves
I’m stunned how Sam Vaknin has described perfectly my husband and marriage. We’re in the bargaining stage at present. I knew intuitively that his recent crazy behaviors were being done intentionally to push me away and now he says how much he wants to be alone and loves his solitude.