East German's REMEMBER What The Last Propaganda Regime Was About | Prof. Dan Bednarz
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- čas přidán 5. 05. 2024
- [Part 1 of 2] Today I’ve got Dan Bednarz with me who wrote a very interesting book titled, “East German Intellectuals and the Unification of Germany”: An Ethnographic View.
This book is quite cool for four reasons: First, usually it’s the Europeans who go out into the world and then do ethnographic and anthropological studies of the non-whites to understand how they function and what they do. And here we haven an American who does this to the Germans, so it is an outsider view of East and West German society, trying to understand these groups.
Secondly, the book does something you don’t read or see often in German publishing landscape; it takes the East German experience serious. Especially that of intellectuals, who witnessed what was happening to “their” Germany during the re-unification process in the 1990s very ambivalently.
Third, it is also a very interesting long term study, because Dan first observed Germany right before the wall fell, then talked to these East German intellectuals, and then came back in 2014 to follow up with them 24 years later.
And finally, the book links-up with today where we clearly see different electoral preferences in Germany where the AfD is most strong in East Germany, and East-Germans seem to me also to be way, more critical of media narratives.
I once heard an ex soviet joke
3 soviet journalists are invited to the US for a visit. After some time host asks the guests what they think of the US. He was expecting to hear praise of freedom but rather shocked when a guest says, we didn't expect so much propaganda in the US. BUT, the host argues, don't you have more propaganda in the Soviet Union? Yes, the guest replies, but nobody believes it.
HAHAHA. Thanks! Perfect summary! Gonna pin this one to the top.
There's an alternative punchline..
Soviet guest: "We didn't expect so much propaganda in the US."
American: (Shocked) "US propaganda...?! What US propaganda?!"
Soviet guest: "Precisely."
Brilliant OP 👌😊
@@ventura9388the first punchline shows exactly this in a more subtle way. Your punchline is the one for people who are dumb lol
We've gotten to that point in the United States. When no one believes the propaganda then the crackdown begins.
An astute observation from a famous American writer, Mark Twain.
"If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're mis-informed."
It is credited to him, but some say that the person credited for this is unknown .
: " It is easier to fool someone than it is to convince them that they have been fooled "
Thank you !
A stupid quote. These days it's easy to look up WHO runs the newspaper. And everyone has a core ideology. I see myself as leftist....but I reject communism. I do like free markets BUT also social democracy....I love a mixture of American liberties and Germanies social programs....
I reject religious fundamentalism, I reject conservative ultranationalism and I definitely reject imperialism and hardcore corporatism....or socialism for the rich and hardcore social darwinism (survival of the fittest) for the poor.
Putin is a fascist. Simple and easy...and being critical of America doesn't mean you need to do apologetics for the tyrant low Testo Putin and his Z fascists.
That's why you read the Pravda, i.e. The Truth.
He has some crackers
Same in Russia, nobody watch the news because we dont want to be spoonfed with bs even in questions we agree with government (because it anyway will distort picture to put itself in more positive light and blame someone other for every mistake it maked). News is for demented seniors and for very plain/not interested in anything political persons to have at least some worldview, if heavily propagandized one. But its like drink water straight from pool without even boiling it.
This is dreadfully sad but true. Many of us are aware of the truth, do our own research but so many will believe anything and are desensitised by bubblegum TV and an obsession with celebrity. I trust Putin , I trust Russia, China and Iran which does mean that there are few people I can converse with. They have no critical capacity.
Watch the news to understand what they want you to believe
I got rid of the TV in 2020 for good (US citizen), couldn’t stand the commercials for years before though so really stopped watching for the most part. The US commercials are the worst form of indoctrination from food, health, DEI and the rainbow agenda.
If you stop watching the Lame Stream, it's instantly obvious.
Us, old East Germans know exactly what's going on. I escaped that country age 22 and live in Canada now. We have not forgotten a single thing from back then and we see the similarities to what's happening now, here in North America or in Europe. The gullibility of Canadians is almost killing us. We live of the hope that things turn right again.
There is a reason why post communism countries have the lowest vax acceptance 😶 as a Pole leaving on East side, quite big city, restrictions were very mild here and wearing a mask was more like aaahhh whatever 😅 when I travelled to biggest city I was shocked, not in good way ;) aaaa and my city didn't die off, we are fine ;)
So what do you think of Pierre Poilievre?
or is that 'turn left again' ?
@@zenden6564 I am wary about that very smooth politician but atm. he is the only hope I have.
Not all Canadian's are gullible. Trudeau directly insulted 6 million of us during the pandemic and not one of us will ever forgive him. We have to go back to a minimalist form of government and quit letting the state regulate/control everything. We're doomed otherwise as we will have fewer rights, even less of a voice and much less money in our pockets.
How interesting. I was raised and educated in Poland but have lived in the West most of my life. I can relate to a lot of things Prof Bednarz says and the observations of the East Germans. I find the people in the West are considerably more propagandized/brainwashed and are blind to it. One important aspect of education was that science was not a commodity in the Soviet bloc and for some reason developing the ability to think was very important in the educational system. We had an introduction to philosophy as a subject in high school and it was very objective in that we were introduced to various schools of thought in a factual manner with no attitude attached to them. I remember my father having to attend philosophy and literature classes, after work as part of his continuous education, when he was in his fifties. Having experienced both systems, I find capitalism damaging to people in that people in the West are shallow and quite programmed. I understand now that the state was trying to protect its people from consumerism and moral and intellectual corrosion. All of which in the end harm the planet we call home.
Well, in a capitalist system (most) people are looked at as commodities, while inequality, especially economic inequality, is considered a righteous thing. If you are not on the top you are useful as long as you conform and make yourself exploitable for those on the top of society. You are a resource, to be discarded as long as you don’t perform.
Critical thinking is taught in the west, to a select few. Most people receive a technical education and are not given the tools to put the reality they live in to serious, analytical scrutiny. This is by design and it got worse after the 90s. If you think of yourself as a wolf and want to keep the herd quiet and compliant you don’t give it a chance to recognize your nature.
Thank you! Having spent my childhood in the USSR, then collapse, then emigration to NZ-I concur with your assessment. ❤
Well stated
@@BusinessGamesAINZers are extremely propagandised (and mis-educated) - the majority employed nil critical thought throughout the 2020 'flu outbreak, are completely deluded re. the USA/NATO's Ukraine sacrifice and think the Gazan gen.0.cyde started on 10/7 because "kHamas bad"...
I grew up in India and moved to the west 30 years ago. Same observations. The western citizens are extremely propagandized and have no clue that they are! It’s mind boggling
In Russia in the 90s there was a joke. Everything they told us about communism turned out to be a lie. Everything they told us about capitalism turned out to be true.
In the 1990s Russia was capitalist, you clown. Market reforms in 1956?
The problem here is the word "they". In a communist society, "they" and "we" are one and the same. "We" must never forget that we are just one among many: We do not stand above our peers.
@@r.w.emersonii3501What?
An old soviet joke went, 'Capitalism is man exploiting man. In Communism it's the other way round.'
@@stepchicken3238 Jokes are this sort mislead us. We mistakenly equate cynicism with sophistication, so we fail to scrutinize claims made by jokes that appeal to dismissive or cynical instincts. The cynic who looks at a rose and sees nothing but thorns is just as naive as the idealist who sees nothing but blossoms. Both have an aversion to reality, and a grip on reality is the only thing that can save us.
'Naive' and 'gullible' are exactly the words I (a woman from Czech Republic) am using when taking about the people in Western Europe. I'm currently living in Western Germany and the level of naivity, brainwashing and weakness is astounding, esp. when it comes to topics such as mass migration and islamization. The Germans in Western Germany are like little lambs calling a wolf their BFF.
Yes
If they were only naive, I'd feel sorry for them. But there's this arrogance, thinking they're morally superior and everyone else is a N*zi
@@bunnystrasse Really, now? So: Russia is coming to save us from our own folly? Lovely.
And yet Czechs kiss German a$$
@@thesilkpainter You don't need to be saved. You deserve your faith that your Muslim population is doing to your women and your society.
There is a poem named: "East is East and West is West, and never the twain shall meet".... The west is now worse than the former GDR, east Germany, east Berlin. The west has its own Stasi.
Yes ...the US is the new USSA .....I thought I was being clever but my son said Ryan Dawson said it 15 years ago
@@matthewbattaglia7329 I coined the term "USSA" back when I was at google groups around 2004 - 2005 as well as "ZioNazi" and a few other terms as "Oh'bummer". This was the "social media" at the time. I am not a professional. I believe my talent comes from beyond.
@@julianpetkov8320AshkeNazi
That is the way the cookies crumble, the west are hypocritical and self centered lots, and not people orientated. Lies is the bedrock of their stances.
Ok, I am not here to defend anyone but comparing the 'West' with the GDR and its Stasi Enforcement is ridiculous. You could say fuck all and voice all kinds of opinions and find like-minded people. Nobody will hunt you down and lock you up for it.
I lived in Hanover in the early 2000's, while working for a large German corporation. It so happened that my two best friends were both Communists, one a German, and the other an American in permanent self-imposed exile. The three of us took a road trip to the former GDR. I was curious so I asked the locals a lot of questions about the former times - which led me to the following paradox: shared hardship and common cause against a totalitarian authority leads to a profound sense of community which is good for mental health. By contrast, the "individualism on steroids'" that we have today yields a maximalist freedom, but also engenders its own forms of isolation, alienation and depression.
Seems so.
But during Corona it was the east Germans fighting for individualism, foregoing the greater of the community? So more individualism - on steroids - is actually good? So how West Germany behaved - individualism on steoirds is the best according to your statement?
All problems experienced by the GDR were caused by the Americans. The capitalist West sanctioned/blockaded the USSR and destroyed their supply chains and ruined one country after another to prevent the development of socialism. Socialism never failed. It was destroyed by fascist aggression from the West. The anti-democratic, anti-freedom West needed to destroy socialism (i.e. freedom, democracy, and human rights) on a global scale. The overwhelming majority of all people who live or ever lived under socialism support socialism. Two thirds of East Germans consider the BRD undemocratic and want the DDR back.
So true!!!! (East German)
@@orange25iI always find mental gymnastics as interesting. The behavior of followers always seems so bizarre to me. No other prey works against their own interests in the wild, only cowardly humans betray their own and let the barbarians in the gates. Thinking that they can trust the predators that want to kill them, more than the men who kept them alive their whole life.
I was born and raised in socialist Yugoslavia and I live in the US since 1991. Socialism in 20th century is the first attempt to create a socioeconomic system in history of mankind's to favor interests of majority (apart from the fact that in prehistory humans lived in communism). I now know that everything I didn't like about socialism back then, and there was a lot of it, is nothing but the result of human imperfections while everything I now dislike in capitalism is present by design of that system. I now know I felt for appeal of short term pleasures of buying stuff in exchange of true happiness that life without fear was giving us back then. No fear of losing job, no fear of having no money for healthcare or education, no fear of retirement. And above that, enough time to spend with family and friends. In Yugoslavia, the government was saying that each of 5 work days in a week should be made of 8hrs of work, 8hrs for culture, sports and fun, 8hrs for resting and they truly tried to provide for it. I can only wish that young people of today will some day manage to create a society like that.
Great video, thank you.
Thank you for this comment. It shows that we humans learn from our mistakes -- and the seductive Capitalist Utopia is a big mistake indeed! So our task now is to find a way to undo this terrible mistake -- before the siren song of the capitalist war machine draws us to the deadly rocks.
the same in Bulgaria... 👌
@Love4pizza. Wouldn't it be nice if we could uise a referendum to select the future economic system:
(1) Free-market communism
(2) Brezhnev communism
(3) Predatory capitalism
(4) Fascism
I agree -if I read correctly- that we should keep alive the idea of trying to create a fairer system than the oligarchy/kleptocracy or even kakistocracy that we practically have now.
The current argument of communism failed => capitalism forever. Is just too convenient for those in control.
@@melanieenmats Everything fails eventually. Trees, cars, people, empires -- all die eventually. Does that mean that we should disregard everything achieved prior to the ultimate failure? Our Capitalist Utopia employs context deletion: All of history prior to some magic date is deleted and forgotten. The magic date -- e.g, 24 Feb 2022, 07 Oct 2023 -- is chosen in a way that prevents us from making sense of the initial event.,
I come from East Germany and after 30 years I can judge the two systems very well.
Yes, there was repression if you didn't line up. As an average person, you didn't notice much of it yourself (unless you completely ignored it), apart from the omnipresent red radiation.
After more than 30 years in the "free" West (I wrote it specifically with quotation marks), I also have to say that not everything is as promised.
e.g.:
Yes, I can travel anywhere if you can afford it.
Yes, I can say anything if you can accept the consequences.
Yes, I can vote for parties that claim to represent my interests, but they forget all too quickly and go back to their own clientele politics (or the "Filz" as we call it) without focusing on their sovereignty.
After all this time, I have to admit that I am very disillusioned with what "democracy" really means in my country.
I feel more like a serf who is used by politicians when it benefits them.
You feel so defenseless against this state apparatus.
What is also noticeable is that today's political decisions are so invasive and extend into the private sphere and family.
Even the socialists at that time never dared to do this, as they were anxious to ensure peace and order within the structure of people among themselves and between people and the state.
In the wider world, what I believe is happening, is that The West - and this means the concept if a democracy, of whatever type; monarchy or republic - have been usurped by globalism.
Much the same is being pushed onto sovereign nations of an extreme socialist design.
What we now see comes from The World Economic Forum - set up by Klaus Schwab in 1971 - and this globalism is based on atheistic Marxism.
As part of this movement there are many supra-national bodies - The World Health Organisstion and The United Nations for example, that were not set up as regulatory-enforcers of policy, but have been infiltrated and coached to take on such roles across the whole world.
The governing bodies of key sovereign nations have also, in the words of Klaus Schwab himself, had their cabinets (of government) penetrated by WEF-young-leaders; people selected and invited to attend what have essentially been indoctrination classes at The WEF 'Young leader conferences'.
I am not sure how many layers of control the citizens of The East - actually central Europe's socialist countries - can see through, but it is evident to me - though brought up in The UK - that higher levels of control and manipulation have useful-idiots driving forward towards temporarily-common-objectives and such folks with their smaller visions have useful-idiots of their own; people they manipulate to move things towards their smaller vision.
What I see will be happening over the next few years will be that useful-idiots will get thrown under the bus, by those more powerful - once key objectives set for them to achieve by those with the bigger vision have been achieved.
Klaus Schwab and others who see themselves as the elite of the elite, do not see the need to enable the weakest to relise valid useful small vision, but only steps towards Utopia; a Utopia planned and schemed into existence by their superior intellect.
Perhaps George Orwell's book '1984' gave me a heads-up to the development and eventual necessity of totalitarian control to achieve the Marxist society. Sadly it might even be possible that the elite of the elite now use this book as their work-book for the achievement of their objectives.
Of course, many contribute to Klaus Schwabs vision, because they are convinced of the need to help the world's popoulation towards salvation of the human race; using their insight and superior abilities.
Such folks will no doubt turn a blind eye to the starvation, civil unrest and censoring, thing I see as likely to occur due to policies currently being introduced across the world.
So such folks will join the chant depicted at the end of George Orwell's '1984'; "Long live Big Brother - LONG LIVE BIG BROTHER"!
Do please let me know your thoughts.
Yours
Keith
I believe the Bible because God tells us that we are in a prison no matter who or where we are in this world, or what ideology we were under. We are under evil, the evil that God said He would eliminate at an appointed time...because human nature has been corrupted by evil .
@@koschmx Lgbtq+, veganism, western leftism, multiculturalism...
@@koschmx Well, I don't know whether this should be viewed as invasive? I would like to decide for myself in my private environment what I eat, what I can think or what I reject. If today's government intervenes in a "regulatory" manner and does not accept my preferences, this has little to do with the free development of people. (The state has to stay out of this!)
If you are punished in court today for having a "wrong" opinion, it has nothing to do with freedom of speech.
@@koschmx You mean the cheese “Casu Marzu”? Even though I shudder a little at the thought of live cheese fly maggots crawling around there, I say quite clearly whoever wants to eat this should be allowed to.
Who am I to say that this possibility should be banned for those who enjoy it? I don't have to like it but I accept and respect those who see it differently.
As a philosopher once said (I unfortunately forgot the name): "I may not agree with you, but I would die for you to be able to express your opinion openly and without reprisals."
Yes, I also heard that this was banned by the EU (I hate this institution, the EU). These bureaucrats claim to regulate the lives of ordinary people down to the last detail, which I strongly reject. We are not slaves or chess pieces that can be chased around like a dog at will on command.
I grew up in USSR and at the time of unification of Germany, which should be more correctly called anschluss or absorption, I lived in GDR. When the West came to us and later we came to the West it didn't take us too long to realize that internally we were much freer people than most of the Western citizens. We were not just free in a way we thought, but actually immunized against propaganda. This yet another time was proven true during the orchestrated "pandemic" crisis of the recent years. Now living in US I realized that people who grew up in Eastern Block countries during the socialist rule there were much more resistant to non-stop 24/7 propaganda that was spewing at us from every mainstream media outlet. Unfortunately this can not be said about younger generation from the same countries. They are often much less rebellious and free thinking than their Western counterparts.
Our youth now are rebelliously supporting the propaganda. It's really amazing. They feel they are making a revolution while they are actually supporting the power structure that has successfully programmed them.
Thanks for sharing your fascinating viewpoint.
I called the annexation "Eingemeindung" ...
You are right! I grew up in Czechoslovakia. Now I am in the US too. I could have never imagined that in later years the "education" I got there would prove helpful in navigating life, truths and lies!
True. We know it was all BS, everybody pretend they follow rules and constanlty thinkink how to trick The System 😅 I believe it was same when covid restriction hit. Post communism countries had lowest vax acceptance ;) and there was also underground system to get false vax cerificate 🤣 Isn't that similar to the way how people dealt with communism 🤭🤣
There was no annexation. The GDR people wanted to become Westeners at some point. They were more eager than the Westeners to unify. It did not go as planned and now they tell themselves sweet little lies that the West invaded/annexed them while they wanted to create a much better world. That is bullshit. "If we don't get German Mark, we will go to it" was one of the chants. The Easteners were quite naiv and propaganda believing themselves. We told them it might become difficult and they said "Your Helmut will soilve it anyway". Yes, there were also sceptic people, but they existed on both sides and they were a minority.
I'm 66.
I was never anti-communist.
For whatever reason, I was always willing to listen to the other side even though there certainly wasn't much available to listen to. I realized this years ago that here in the US, people are living in an absolute fantasy land.
Anytime I hear or read anything from the government, without even having to think about it, I immediately begin dissecting every sentence, making sure I understand what they are and are not saying.
After a while, you begin to see patterns appear of them using phrases and particular words to create false impressions.
Well said. I live in NZ and have a complete distrust of our mainstream media. They completely follow whatever the overseas Western media say. Who are always in lockstep with whatever their governments say. Which is usually what Washington DC is saying. You look at the UK and German governments....complete poodles to the US.
You developed the skill! Now go teach it to others, it’s much needed!
Hi! I'm from eastern EU. My observations since app. 2020, about the US in particular are mind boggling. I mean is it REALLY so hard for this society to see the patterns? They're so obvious - like the constant repeating of catchphrases ("misinformation and disinformation" are literally making me sick at this point). Or how people from another continent always know for sure where "the baddies" are.
OK, we made some mistakes with the flu, Iraq and Libiya, but that was a long time ago and now, because it's Russia, it's perfectly true.
And so many people buying this is beyond my comprehension. Where are they putting the logical line?
I want to wish you good luck in dissecting what Biden says! If you manage to understand him let us know!
@@ledlight1487 The average person has no historical memory. They won't link what happend during covid to what is happening with Russia or Palestine now. They might have already forgotten COVID restrictions and politics!
What an interesting interview. It mirrors my experience in talking to the family of a close friend that still lives in what was the former DDR . About six years ago they predicted that free speech in Germany was in the process of being curtailed if it did not conform with the consensus. How prophetic they were . I could not see it at the time .
6 years ago free speech in Germany has already been curtailed for 70 years
I could see it cause I was watching the canary in the coalmine. The canary has a name and it's Julian Assange.
Once they dared to take him out, I knew we had lost our chance at freedom in the internet age.
Without a Wikileaks or equivalent the public has no access to true information, that makes us terribly weak in resisting the power of our local government.
They often mix free speech and hate speech.
what happened in German academia after the reunification is a horrific tale; I was younger then (but already in academia) and was a partial witness to it through friends and acquaintenances... some of my west german colleagues behaved like thugs, only to further their career; I have never talked about it for fear of losing some of my international connections, but now I'm close to retirement and I can at least ease my coscience
So can you imagine what they are like to other nation!
Once you retired you should give an interview to an alternative media / vlog. History should be documented, even terrible parts of it. Your insights might one day help someone understand their situation better.
Care for disclosing some details? What did they do?
@@Ufthak They sold out the eastern part of the country using a currency the East Germans did not have. Actually very simple!
@@Ufthak They dismissed specialists from the East although they were much better that the 'imported' lickspittles, who had been category four or five in the West.
I know two people, both women, that were born in East Germany, one became my friend, and in long conversations both said to me that they had wonderful childhoods growing up in East Germany. Their families were not involved in politics and we're not academics, and at the time of German reunification one was a surveyor and was hired by an architectural practice in West Berlin, and the other that was a skillful horse rider and trainer started to travel and ended up working with horses in Spain. They have great memories of their lives in East Germany, far from the awful picture we were told in the west, something that of course shocked me.
To be fair, most women are oblivious to any sort of politics, they go along what they have been told, then yes, life was ok. Still don't be fooled, it was a f ing disgusting commie dicatorship, you went against the grain, you disappeared.
A former boss (West Berlin) had an uncle who was married to an East German (after “reunification”). Once, at a family gathering, the uncle said to his wife, “Aren’t you glad we saved you?” to which she indignantly replied, “WTF do you mean?! We had wonderful lives! Guaranteed employment, free healthcare and education, affordable housing, guaranteed holidays with trips to the seaside or mountains, and all over Eastern Europe, Black Sea etc…”
Having been born in the USSR, I agree.
@@BusinessGamesAI Yes it's the same answer I've got from both ladies. I suppose nothing is idyllic, but I've got the impression things weren't as bad as people were saying in the West. Thirty years later here we are, witnessing Western ultra Liberal societies collapsing in front of our own eyes, only fools can't see it.
@@BusinessGamesAI My second attempt trying not to be deleted. Probably nothing is idyllic, but what you say is exactly what the two ladies told me, and far from the horror stories we were told. "Any resemblance to reality is pure coincidence." 😊
I cry BS. If East Germany was such a wonderful place to live, there never would have been a wall manned by soldiers shooting anyone trying to escape. If one grows up a child of the elite and does not care about the horror around them, they can still live a life comfort. I am sure there are a few children in North Korea who are having a wonderful childhood because of the status of their parents. My family kept in contact with our blood in Poland. I can tell you they had a different opinion of life under the Soviet yoke.
In time of my Soviet youth, the word "propaganda" was used in it's initial meaning, it was a part of our everyday life, so we didn't consider it someting evil. Even in a school we were learning about it, about how to do it, were learning to argue and to persuade. Basically, any large community (a state or corporation, doesn't matter) cannot live without propagnda, and now we have it everywere: flags, signs, TV ads, "Beware the fire", "Do sports", "Texting kills", "Save animals" etc. In the Soviet Union people generally knew: yes, this, this and that is propaganda and that's OK, as long as they don't lie to you. Because the propaganda itself doesn't need to be a brainwash, and doesn't need to be hidden. But there always were lots of "propagandists" who did it just basing on some primitive mass-printed manuals, without knowing marxism and the real life well anough, just for their own administrative career, and they never cared if other people believed them or not. It's like a bad priest, who doesn't believe any god or devil, but still preaches just because he is a part of his chirch. And for the Soviet person it was quite easy to detect that dumb kind of propaganda. What we see in the West is very much the same, the only difference is that the westerners have been told for generations, that propaganda only exists "somewhere far far away", and many of them are not trained to recognise even the most stupid myths and lies. The sad thing is that modern Russians are losing this ability too, slowly but surely.
I would add that most of eastern European of certain age could see through propaganda, and I can say without any doubt that I have never seen such brazen propaganda like the propaganda of the last few years during my life behind the Iron Curtain...
yet ... Ukrainians, those that migrate to the west, bought hook and sinker western propaganda. In Canada I can't talk about the Donbass' attack to many immigrant without them telling me it's Putin fault, relatively young, like 20-40 yo...
Ukrainians, Roumania, Polish... the Russophobia is STRONG.
Totally! We see through the Holly (sh..t) wood lies of mass destruction
同感啊，我以為西德有民主自由，結果德國主流媒體的CZcams全不允許留言。
Stimmt!
Would U specify the time period and the contry?
In early 1980s I closely followed the Solidarity movement in Poland in mainstream media, as a citizen of U.S.A., residing in vicinity of NYC .
Eventually I became very concerned that Lech Walesa was so strident that he might cause an invasion similar to Hungary(1956) or
Czechoslavakia(1968). The New York Times correspondent who dominated their coverage was John Danforth, who later held a little
discussion of the movement at a local university, featuring a recent Polish immigrant to U.S. At one point in the discussion, the Pole commented,
"In Poland we all KNEW that the local news was propaganda, and we absolutely trusted the Radio Free Europe and BBC. NOW, I'm not so sure".
Wales was an agent.
Nothing changed, as far as I can tell. Radio "Free Europe" is an American media, BBC, DW, all the media in my country (Bulgaria) are pure propagandists, and pretty shallow, if you ask me.
It's funny, how the "fellowship of good democracies" is banning media (censorship), private platforms like this one inclusive, but in the land of the "bad dictatorship" there's no such thing - you can continue watching western propaganda channels there.
And the lambs are silent and happy, because this is the fight with "harmful disinformation".
A teacher I knew trained in Mannheim with some East Germans. She remembered their sense of loss for the intimate conviviality they had grown up with - getting together with a few friends at someone's house, playing - actually playing - music, singing - activities that lost out to the chimera of things and their insatiable acquisition.
On the other hand, one or more of those "friends at someone's house" would have been a stasi informant.
…my parents always warned me, as soon as I left the house: You don’t talk about what we do, you don’t answer questions about the family. They knew that Stasi was a cancer spreading into all crooks and nannies - the „intimate conviviality“ is a phantasy, as the walls had ears and you couldn’t easily trust anyone.
People in the west used to also do this.
@@stepchicken3238Ordinary working families, the majority of population, were hardly monitored by Stazi
@@slavakotelnikov2440 I lived in East Germany for thirty five years, went to high school and to University there and never met a single Stasi man.
I'm an American, and back in 1989, I saw the jubilation over the destruction of the Wall as gravely misplaced. At the time, I regarded the annexation of the GDR by the Empire of the West as the opening act in an immense tragedy. Unfortunately, I was not wrong.
We were led to view the Berlin Wall as an Intolerable Infamy. But compare the death toll over 20 years at the Wall -- a little over 200 -- with the death toll of an average day in any of the wars that followed the dissolution of the Soviet bloc. We now have millions dead, all over the world, and nobody sees that as a problem, but the Berlin Wall -- that was a Horror Beyond Comprehension.
The wall, Ukraine, setting German troops in Poland and Baltics, Romania is the same drang nach osten that's been going on for thousand years. One is not a precursor to the other. The only thing keeping Germans from munching up on the E. Europe is a certain bear in the east.
What absolute rubbish. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Thank you! This is a much more thoughtful & interesting comment than usual. ❤
Now we believe that while walls may be bad -- there are differences on that -- fences are a fantastic idea! Poland build one on the border with Belarus, Finland is making it on the border with Russia (too damn long!), USA can't build wall+fence quickly enough and so on. And even more important: the question of intellectual walls, protecting citizens from malign influence. So we see parallel processes of building walls and demolitions, social platforms censor more or censor less, algorithms catch some malign influence but not all... Defending freedom from malign influences connects with the concept of free will (when it is free?), so philosophy may become a practical subject.
So you think USSR should have been saved?
Prof. Dan Bednarz is absolutely right.
Im the same.i grew up in heavy censorship in the 70s South Africa.
I left in the 80s.
I look back and cringe.
So when we got lockdown i saw straight through
lockdowns, the world wide Holocaust. I knew instinctively it was a lie of mass destruction.
Yes...us ex SA types know bullshit when we see it.
I knew it was bulls*** as did many others and I ve live U.K. all my life .
SA was in the throes of a low level war(s), at home and abroad.
Your's is probably not an appropriate comparison to '90s Eastern Europe
I would add to that, in current-day South Africa we know all about using abusing victimhood to deflect from failures of the administration. So we don't fall for that "we were oppressed/persecuted" line either. Already got a race card in my deck :)
How strange for those in the European eastern bloc.
They have now witnessed the collapse of 2 systems.
It’s very surreal, as history keeps repeating in such short circles, that you have to ask yourself, why seemingly no one remembers the last round and where it ended up. It kind of proofed to me, that we live in a simulation and the script writer are running out of ideas and get dumber and dumber.
@@ichraumauf5532 The Rockefellers and Rothschilds are running the world as a theatre. They control both USA and China today and create these false conflicts and made up problems.
Hahah that’s true! I am from Ukraine but have been living in USA for 20 years, it is strange to see how both systems collapse, I hope the world doesn’t turn into Mad Max movie😱
You made an astounding statement.
I am 76 years old and lived in communist Romania until 1971. Escaped and lived in America since 1973.
Just about all the people who lived in Eastern Europe and have some knowledge of the West and made comments here, are not old enough to know the atrocities done by communists in the early years. That is why they do not think Communism was very bad.'
I was immensely lucky to have seen how miserable and atrocious were the communists in the beginning, and coming to America in 1973, I had a glimpse of real beautiful America which ended in 1975.
I watched the communists disguised as liberals taking over America and the West, and how they are destroying it.
If you write my name Raven Alb J you will see some books I wrote.
Because I wrote my pen name, you may not be able to read this comment.
If you did read it please let me know.
@@neloglass l will definitely have a look.
Thank you for your comment.
What westerners cant grasp is how humans in repressed states have very few options to escape.
I left south africa as a privileged white.
I was making easy money with a job as a photographer. I could have stayed and enjoyed the ride.
But my conscience wouldn't let me sleep at night.
So i came to the uk .virtuously penniless .just as camera's were going through transformation to digital and it was impossible to retool. Let alone break into a very competitive industry while not even having access to welfare.
So i had to resort to physical work and ended up doing landscape gardening for 15 years to make sure we had food on the table.
My son got education and is a chartered accountant. YET.
hes very similar to the description in the video on how naivety plaques the western mindset.
I am just perceived as a dinosaur
Rather be a dinosaur with clear unclouded eyes than the sheep most people are...... Most people will just go with flow even if they see the wrongs in their society.
I also left South Africa and got caught as an Architect by the change to computer tech at end of my career. I was rejected by family after my wife died.I think it may be a fairly common story with variations. I now live a different life in a new place.
"plagues" the western mindset, maybe? Anyway, physical work is not a bad thing, keeps your "feet on the ground" as it were (lol, excuse the un-intentional pun), very enjoyable when it involves nature.
@@soniavadnjal7553it can also liberate the mind for contemplation as long as one feeds its needs in spare time.
What privileges you had when you left SA? Diplomatic passport?
Most interesting thing is that many of the freedom related obstacles that the East Germans had, are becoming more evident in west today and that is in addition to the problems that they didn't have.
Further, the opinion of former Stasi agent about the necessity of controlling the people politically, is (and perhaps has always been) similar to the opinion of many in the governments of western countries despite seemingly big political differences while the real weaknesses of the societies is mostly related to various forms of corruption, injustice, lack of fairness, lack of knowledgeability (partially related to the level of education), etc, more than what the system is called or how it views itself.
The west has been overrun by the left. So it should come as no surprise that it's falling victim to the same sorts of injustices that earlier leftist states did in the past. And while there are many ways to define what it means to be on the left, the overarching theme seems to be an opposition to existing hierarchies that are at least perceived to be unjust. And often times it's a noble goal if the existing hierarchies are in fact unjust. The big problem the left has is that when they come to power they inevitably become far more authoritarian than the old leaders they displaced. They believe in a simple-minded notion that if only people would do as we (the enlightened left) want them to all the injustices of the world could be alleviated. It's a restriction of personal liberties that you see time and time again when incompetent leaders claiming to have the best interests of the people at heart try to "fix" society.
Luckily it seems the tide may have started to turn with political movements gaining traction in Europe that seek to correct course.
I was born in 1970 somewhere in the West German Province, but since 1991 I've mostly lived in the eastern parts of Berlin; and I was thoroughly observing what happened around me. The humiliation of Eastern Germans was not limited to academics. In fact nearly the entire labour market was cleared of all people older than 45 and the vast majority of them never got any work till their retirement. So there were no experienced workers from the east in the economy. The absence of any jobs forced a lot of younger people to move to the western parts to work there. A friend of my father's, a teacher who was born in 1941, had for 5 years constant supervisions during her lessons before the western state finally accepted her staying in her job. And she only taught Arts (!) and nothing, what can be thought of as ideologically spoilt, as the state claimed to be the reason of these measures.
The formation of a specific East German identity was a reaction to the experience, that nearly the whole economy was liquidated just for the sake of saving Western German companies from breaking apart. Western companies usually bought the assets of some eastern factory nearly for free (usually to the price of just 1 DM), only to clear the economy of potential new competitors. There was nearly no plan to use them. Actually the West German economy was as well at the brink of collapse as the East German was. The currency conversion of 1:1 poured a lot of money into the western economy, which prevented many bankruptcies; but there were still some till the mid of the 90s. And the eastern economy just didn't benefit from that at all. And to make things worse, the opening of the borders to the eastern European countries after the turn of the millennium led to a kind of competition, which lowered the wages, which were always remarkably lower than in the west, even further.
So there is a strong feeling of deception and betrayal especially in many East German men which show up in the polls for the AfD. I do fear, that this time, it's these eastern German men, who get fooled by propaganda, because this party is the most extreme capitalist and anti-social party I have ever seen in my whole life.
Für Wessis ist Demokratie Konsensfindung, für uns ist sie der Wettstreit der Ideen. Der Propaganda der Pfaffen vom Rhein geht hier niemand mehr auf den Leim, was hat es denn gebracht, zwanzig Jahre die Linke im Osten zu wählen, um dann bei Regierungsbildungen, ob auf Bundes- oder Landesebene, völlig ignoriert zu werden? Oder sich zwanzig Jahre bei der Forderung nach einem Mindestlohn von adipösen Christen als Sozialschmarotzer angrunzen zu lassen? Der pastorale Ton zieht nicht mehr, wir vereinigen jetzt mal dreißig Jahre andersrum. Demokratie ist nur hinten scheisse, vorne geht's.
AfD has a powerful help from a german woman : Ursula van den Layen. Too many european silenced voices turned against the EU because of her and those who control her. People are fed up taking orders from Brussels.
Islam is bad tho
Tis. Very good comment. These are exactly the same stories friends who at that time worked for West German companies tell me. West Germany fell over East Germany like vultures and the level of corruption was unbelievable.
I would be curious to know what Dan considers to be economic failure in the GDR. The only thing that comes to mind is that he is talking about consumer products...? Everyone having jobs, housing, medicine, retirement, education (and no war) is not failure i would say.
It isn’t. Also, much shorter working hours and ability to spend time with the family. Both my experience from the USSR and my colleagues from East Germany … when we reminisced about while working 50-60-hour white collar jobs in Berlin 12 years ago … and not because we enjoyed working THIS much.
The economic failure was that Erich Honecker’s economic policy prioritized purchasing overseas goods to supplement consumer products, while sacrificing capital investment, leading to the economic decline and foreign debt collapse of the 80s. The Central Planning Commission (Gosplan) argued with Honecker against this but Honecker libeled anyone who disagreed with debt based consumption to be as good as a traitor. This shortsighted economic planning is the failure he is referring to.
@@blueguitar4419 Thank you for this helpful explanation. So it seems that Honecker was the real traitor -- he chose liberalism over communism. In fairness, the command economy of the Soviet bloc had no future. I like to believe that the bloc could have been saved by a return to the free-market communism of Lenin's NEP (1922-28), now implemented by China.
They had. But there's no growth and future with such a system in a savagely competitive world of today. It's not by hazard Germany is now the powerhouse of Europe. You can't have them all.
@@blueguitar4419 I see, thanks for the info. I went on and read further about it. So it was connected to consumer products overall. Such a shame that they were so shortsighted to fall into the IMF trap, as were Romania, Poland, and later so many others.
I have recently been introduced to the writings of Anthony Sutton regarding western financing and military support of the Communist takeover of Russia, and the following industrialization of that country.
It is very interesting but also disgusting to know.
At this point there is nothing the people that have controlled the United States could have done that would surprise or shock me. What I have learned thus far of the real history of the United States is enough to make anyone an anarchist. What I mean by that is, I once felt pride and safety when military jets or helicopters flew over. Knowing what people in power in this country have done here and abroad, I do not feel that way anymore. I used to say “especially in Central and South America”, but after what has been done in Libya, Iraq, Syria and a dozen other countries, it is world wide. How can they get people to do these things? I don’t understand.
My opinion, it is the bankers, since they have owned the US since 1935.
It’s not your opinion. It’s the fact. I know of the “bankers” aswell, friend
Don't forget that there is a difference between mass murder, war crimes and collateral damage.
It depends on who committed them.
Für mich ein sehr interessantes Gespräch mit vielen neuen Informationen. Danke dafür.
What an excellent and informative guest. I look forward to the next installment. Thank you.
Criticizing media narratives is dangerous for our democracy
Listening to the desires of your body and soul is bad for freedom.
The people having actual power is bad or democracy.
A fair society is bad for justice.
Sharing burdens and pleasures is bad for solidarity.
Negotiation is bad for peace.
Everybody having what they need is bad for prosperity.
Real understanding is bad for wisdom.
This was fantastic. I didn't know that I even wanted to learn about this, but I guess I did!
Thank you for the introduction to Dan Bednarz's work. His book is on my reading list. The illusion of superiority syndrome of the 'West'.
Thanks for making this video, it is both very interesting and very important to publish.
As always, everything is a question of context - and being able to appreciate the perspective of someone outside your own cultural understanding.
I do enjoy your interviews. This is some history I didn't know much about.
Why not to analyse Stasi versus surveillance society in the west.
As a GDR born ethnographer I highly appreciate this interview 🙏🏻
Yes... Important. Since the few western Germans still have is the same as 30 years ago.... An ego trip while being absolute ignorant
AMERICA, AMERICANS!!
What would Italians, Germans and Britons think if the French would claim "We are the only Europeans"?
I don't understand why Unitedstadians think they are the only Americans???
America is a CONTINENT with 35 sovereign countries and over one billion people.
Unitedstadians do not speak for the interests of all Americans! Haiti was already a state 100 years before the first USA city, Jamestown was founded! Haiti, Cuba, Argentina, Mexico, etc. are all American countries.... And have been American for over a hundred years more than the Unitedstadians! So this means that any Mexican is as American as any Argentinian. and vice versa! What shall we call the people of the United States? …they are Unitedstadians!!!
I love the United States, this is my country where I grew up and where l live.
what the hell. and you will do what to enforce this?
@@conantheagrarian The US has to drop the "Exceptionalism" and accept that other nations, such as Russia, China and Iran have a right to exist. If Americans can't do this then the rest of the world will leave you behind.
Love your comment @zeketorres9257 ❣️ Especially when considering that the USA with their history of not even 250 years violently annexed half of Mexico to “integrate” the US states of California, Arizona, Utah, New Mexico, Wyoming, Texas and other parts. Just look for spanish named cities and you will know 🤦♀️ Time to reduce the angloimperialists to their suitable size and name them what they are: aggressive, violent, manipulative imperialists striving for global dominance at the expenses of others 🤷♀️
@@hathawayrose2183the USA has been left behind already without them realizing yet 🤷♀️ they are already in free fall and no soft landing ahead after all they have done to others in their super short history of not even 250 years, completely ignorant of roots and suffering of humans they have caused 👻
You do not know actual indepth history. All leaders of all countries & citizens even in colonial times referred to the 13 states as America, Canada as Canada(priorly known as Canandaigua), Spanish Florida as That, Louisiana territory as that. What you are doing is a globalization destruction of fact, like the massive destruction of our borders.
Please do a longer follow up. This viewpoint is fascinating . The podcast was way too short to grasp this interesting perspective. Please more with this man.
And thank you for the amazing interviews. You are delivering an awesome level of quality.
When I visitated East Germany in 1990, East Germans looked depressed and visiting West Germans were happy and saw business opportunities;
fascinating guest! Looking forward to part 2.
Thanks for making this. It's a fascinating topic. Somewhat related, I watched a video about the collapse of East German football following reunification once. Done people made a killing on buying players and destroying teams. The upending of a society is something I've read a lot about, but I don't think I can really comprehend it.
Excellent interview....many thanks....
My mother visited Germany in the Fall of 2022 (I have never visited but would like to). She spent time in Berlin and Dresden and noted that the differences were pretty staggering. The former, while not without merit, was quite dirty and full of propaganda, there were 🇺🇦 everywhere, said there seemed to be more of them than 🇩🇪. On the other hand, she said Dresden was stunning with street cleaning being an everyday occurrence and did not see a single 🇺🇦.
Why does the flag bother you so much?
@@Ufthak You don’t think it’s odd that they’d have more flags of a foreign country flying than their own? This was apparently especially true on the government buildings in Berlin. Very bizarre if you ask me, seems like a pretty c*cked nation.
@@MSF8637 That is the flag of the NWO. Along with the Israeli flag and the pride flag.
@@MSF8637 It depends heavily on a context. And why do you single out one particular country? Why does the Palestinian flag being waved everywhere in Europe in massive numbers and frequency not seem to bother you too much?
@@Ufthak Palestinian flags are being flown by individuals, it’s a form of protest and why would I have any problem with that? German government flying more Ukrainian than German flags when they have no real interest in supporting Ukraine is bizarre, stupid and just pathetic. It’s not helping them by supporting Ukraine, it’s made Germany much weaker as a country.
As to the western media - I began my career in the late eighties at a large newspaper. The old press guard (some who started out as paperboys in WW2) was still around and most of them were deeply cynical people, very well aware that they created headlines rather than reporting on current events.
Decades later I experienced up close and personal how the state TV works its magic. It is a very toxic environment, were nobody is allowed to step ideologically out of line. The editors-in-chief are rewarded with well paying comfy jobs once their rein of terror in the state media comes to an end. They all know very well how the system works and play by it's unwritten rules.
It is fair to say that today's generation of media pundits have all gone through several layers of college and academic media training. They have been indoctrinated for years to report in a pre-described way, which makes many of them blissfully unaware that they are being used as propagandists for the status quo.
Not all of them are this naive, but the fast majority of the media foot soldiers have no idea how biased they themselves really are.
Excellent interview, thank you.
This channel keeps impressing, thank you for sharing!
Fantastic guest. I've been wondering about this.
16:30 Most interesting what Dan is reporting about the position of the Eastern intellectuals on the third way (integrating the best of both states) that’s exactly what I had hoped for as a Western intellectual born and raised in Hamburg. What disappointment to me that has been learning that the West just took over the East while totally ignoring them - and nowadays learning that it ended up with integration of the worst of both states 👻 welcome to DDR 2.0 - Stasi included - free speach not in public unless you can handle the consequences 😳
Looking forward very much to the second part, Pascal and Dan!
Watching the old Communist movies they always tried to represent themselves as though "Communist society" collection of refined professors. Even Elena Ceaucescu pretended to be a scientist. The Communist states were gangster states, and as soon as the states "went private" the gangsters came out of the woodwork and made it official.
It's clear that the ex-Communists like Merkel have made a total mess of Germany.
What do you think of democracy? - wasn't the question: "what do you think of the French Revolution?"
Thanks Pascal. As always, such varied perspectives with current ressonance
Thank you for the wonderful interview ❤
Excellent informative show!
29:05 "nasty institutions" well, that's exactly the same way things are now in Western countries.
Thank you. Very interesting topic. I run for the second part. Greetings from Italy
Outstanding. Fresh perspective on this topic. Great comments!
Great show!
The "B" in Vitamin B stands for "Beziehungen" or Relationships.
So, unless you know somebody on the inside you are screwed or at least will have more dificult.
This is in many cases also true of the West - if you have the right connections you’re set for life, no matter how competent (or not) you are. Examples of that are everywhere.
@@zebrafactory2253 I always wonder how the US doesn't fall apart. Because no one in positions of power know anything about anything as it's all who you know.
It’s not just East Germany people. Generally, all people from the former eastern block can see through that: Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Poland, etc.
Excellent interview !
Interesting reminder of the positive effects of trauma.
East Germans are great people. They are not stupid enough to take western propaganda seriously. They're intelligent, moral and loyal.
So intelligent and moral that they let the Stasi terrorize their fellow countrymen. I guess communists really can't help but lie.
Having grown up in the West, with an international family history, I just moved my family to the east. As for harmful influence on the youth, a lot is from the west (drugs, music, crime, etc.). But there's also dependency culture, illegitimacy rates, lack of entrepreneurialism, resentment, no sense of personal property.
In many statistical aspects, East Germans are like Afro-Americans.
I like having East Germans as neighbors; the ones I have are very cultivated and open minded, although they hardly travel outside the East. That can't be said of the younger generation, many are very parochial, since they've only ever lived under one system.
The older generation definitely have work ethic, but to a detrimental degree - they will work without counting the money or the hours, because that's what socialism teaches. I'm very american in the sense that I like to work less and earn more...
DRugs music and crime???? Oh, my dear ....
There is a huge difference in how East German elites were treated after reunification with how Nazi bureaucrats were seamlessly absorbed into the West German administration after 1945. The resentment in the former GDR is perfectly understandable in light of this.
Some of this unfortunate course of events can be explained by the rushed reunification process. But there is also an enduring element of retaliation and palpable arrogance on the side of the West German “victors”. The term “Besserwessi” to label clueless West German loudmouths embodies this perfectly. To this day, the German media landscape is dominated by West German sensitivities that completely dismisses the East German experience.
I agree. And it is not necessarily a bad thing. The question you should ask yourself what positive values had East Germany contributed to our civilization.
Oh there is quite something to mention, but it is normal that elites of an overthrown system to some extend suffer a broken career. In 1945 this was just not possible as to few people were available (many killed in war anyway, the country so much destroyed that there was no time to leave and starting cold war requiring inner stability). Still quite some of the Eastern elite used their connections for second career, but in many cases they were just replaced by Westeners often not the best and that certainly created issues.
the reason why east germans were treated like that is EXACTLY bacause the nazis and their offspring (same ideology, only painted black / green) reigned western germany and got their "revenge" on the easterners for losing the war. western germany never got a proper denazification, in the eastern part they tried and did a half decent job on this. and that was a pain in the ass for the westerners.
@@pawelpap9 they made the west go: uhh we need a "show window to the east" with a proper social system and happy customers, so nobody will go "communism is doing better than capitalism mimimi" and went off to the east.
@@katrinsarascholz7308 Yes, Nazis Like Brandt who was in exil due to the Nazis.
Very fascinating and informative conversation. 👍
Thank you Dr Bednarz. And thank you Pascal.
I appreciate this interview very much. Thank you.
So happy that the Wagenknecht party is gaining interest and strength.
'They make you do things in order to not interfere with your career, your safety...' in former GDR... sounds a lot like what has been going on to opposers of the narrative in the 'West' as well
Fascinating interview giving insights into GDR society and the takeover of GDR mental ecosystem by BRD ideologues. I visited Berlin in 2012 and observed how the German Government and institutions had applied cancel culture in its totality to extinguish from historical memory any trace or residue of GDR life, culture etc. I remember in particular the tiny museum or rather sideshow peek allowed into the GDR by a display that was both comic and grotesque. In the UK the the best comparison would be to Madam Tussauds at its comic and horror best!
I agree. GDR was not comic. But it was certainly grotesque. Maybe the time to visit Berlin was 1982 or 1972.
@@pawelpap9 How do you know ? You could not judge without living there.
Such a good channel. Thank you.
The interview conducted by Prof. Bednarz with intellectuals is interesting. However, there is something to consider. In the GDR, there were three ways to get through life. The connections between these options were fluid.
1. You fully supported the state.
2. You kept your mouth shut and tried to get by, as the saying goes, ‘with your back against the wall.’
3. You joined the opposition, with all the resulting consequences.
The majority of GDR citizens tended toward the second option. However, most intellectuals, at least those interviewed by Bednarz, found themselves somewhere between options 1 and 2.
Here in Ireland its the same, its hard to find people who are not programmed by the state, i believe its fear, the government uses fear, along with woke intimidation to blindside the population. The social engineering programming in the west was instituted by the likes of the tavistock institute who are now defunct as their social programming with regards to gender dysforia turned out to be a disaster as many service users became suicidal and suffered mental health issues, great talk will look forward to the next segment, thanks.
Covid really pulled the veil down on that for me. The amount of people that I had respected and thought to be intelligent just went along with everything without question. I am pretty interested in history so that has led me into reading a lot about the US intelligence and foreign policy to the point that me, a 50 year old who served in the military and by all metrics a all American patriot came to realize that we haven't been "the good guys" we have been told we are. The US is very much a bully in the world and our intelligence agencies have made some huge mistakes that have led to horrible things. It was an eye opener for sure. And with regards to Ukraine, that was another thing that boggled my mind. People who have no understanding of Russia or US and NATO policy just went all in on what the media and government told them to believe, again without question or even the curiosity to really understand all the underlying issues that led to the SMO.
Ironically, what's happening in Ireland ,and North America, originated in Germany through the Institute for Social Research in Frankfurt Germany which was a communist intellectual think tank made up of disciples of Karl Marx. They fled Germany because they were communists and Hitler hated communists, and they came to America and other places where they updated Marxism. Instead of oppression based on economics, they harnessed society's fringe elements and united them against society as the newly "oppressed class" . In this newly chosen "oppressed class" were feminists, native Americans, students, LGBT people, and black people. This has now been expanded to include illegal immigrants, and muslims. These people are the constituents of "wokism". I work with people in Canada who had fled communist eastern European countries , and they are now asking themselves why they came to Canada because it's starting to resemble the countries they fled.
@@markanthony3275 Interesting. I knew wokeness is cultural marxism but did not know about the German organization. Looks like I have some reading to do. Thanks
@@dmacarthur5356 Part of the problem you will encounter is that while people talk about cultural marxism, like Dr.Jordan Peterson for example , nobody has written a decent book about it. Here's where I start. I start with the 1983 lecture given in Los Angeles by KGB defector Yuri Bezmenov ( on You Tube)...who describes the ideological subversion tactics used on nations in the west. I start there because he described then in detail what has happened in America and why they are where they are now. But he does not mention the Frankfurt School or the German communists that poisoned America and the west because they were a breakaway communist group not sanctioned by Lenin or Stalin. It is better to follow the trail left by the most prominent cultural marxist in America, Herbert Marcuse. Read everything around him, and about him or "the New Left"
@@markanthony3275 I have watched Bezmenov's video may times. I will definitely look into the other topics you have suggested.
Title needs the apostrophe taking out.
Pedantic English😂
@@juliethurner4099It can go too far but it matters.
@@juliethurner4099
I am neither a pedant nor am I English. I am an English speaker who is aware that in every word written there is essentially, the opportunity, through lack of attention to detail, to convey the wrong meaning. Whenever I see an instance of such, I inform the writer in a constructive manner, of their slip-up.
@@juliethurner4099🤔 as a non-native I had to read the title twice to understand what is really meant 🤷♀️ “pedantic” is most helpful when communicating in foreign languages instead of confusing others 😝
So interesting to hear about this important phase from someone with an outside perspective.
I'm a millennial east german. Although I only experienced the last days of the east block (more unconsciously than consciously), the propaganda from either side is pretty obvious for most of us here. And your brain starts to hurt every time, when you think about the people blindly believing and following stuff. I frequently question things I believe or don't believe in, by my self.
Thats actually true, greetings from Poland!!!
Fascinating. And a project which was necessary. So, kudos to prof Bednarz.
A fascinating conversation! Even more fascinating are the comments, overwhelmingly by people who are or know really well someone from the former East Bloc or other communist countries.
I think one reason why intellectuals were ‘late to the party’ was that they had most to lose. If you were a worker in a factory, or even a clerk in an administrative office, chance were, in late 1980s you’d have multiple organizations to choose from. Not so if you were an academic. One wrong sentence or article, and your career would be over. Clearly, the similarity with today’s academia in the West must be stunning.
Another thing to consider was that the constant propaganda provided a filter. From high school on, intelligent and intellectually inclined people would learn how to read between the lines, and how to read others in the same field. It was not 100% successful, but it led to extremely strong and trusted relationships. After living for almost 35 years in the West, I still haven’t found similar bonding experience that the propagandized socialism created (against all odds).
It is such an enormous shame how there's a complete blackout on East-Germany even today in Germany, all you hear about is the wall and the STASI. But if you actually listen to people who lived in the GDR and read books, the system had so much more redeeming qualities than you would think.
This is one of the most important countries to study if you want to improve systems today, and the Nordic countries did exactly that during the lifetime of the GDR, and it inspired their education system and much more.
Yes, for sure. It was so great that government had to put up two 3m+ fences to keep the people there. It was a deeply moral rotten system with lot's of shortages and few freedom. Certainly not everything was bad and people there had to arrange anyway and try to make the best out of it, but overall it was not a nice place at all. That does not mean that people never laughed, never got excited and had fun. That there were no good teachers or engineers. Life is too short to miss all that all the time. However, in the end it was pretty much done. All efforts to reform were more or less rejected as people did not believe it could be reformed. There was a good reason this country collapsed in 1989.
@@florianmeier3186Back off, florian. how old are you? east german here: get real people telling real things about the topic, not the BS west german "history books" or "documentaries" by ard+zdf are telling you. thank me later.
I was live there talked to the people in 1990 and I watched the Resultat of election in GDR. You can check how many votes Neues Forum got which wanted reform GDR and how many Helmut Kohls party CDU which declared previously that they wanted to absorb GDR Into the West. I also explained why that happened and why some people tell it differently today. It is shameful for them as they expected different outcome and quick economic success. Therefore it is easier to tell the story of evil conquering West than deal with bitter sweet past which was more complex.
@@florianmeier3186 never heard of the coup kohl's election campaign did? sure you know. kohl's men mingled with the protestors and changed "WE are the people" to "we are ONE people". not the only thing they did - and promised a lot of stuff they never had the intention to keep. shameful... to be betrayed by their western "brothers" and by their delusions about the west.
and please don't tell treuhand victims the west WASN't evil. sry... they destroyed everything the east germans built cause they wanted to get rid of competitors. stop lying about history, florian.
Although I lack Polish, I closely followed the Solidarity movement. I greatly admired the first iteration, using it as a template of what a massive and popular social movement might achieve in the right circumstances. Solidarity's second iteration was bittersweet for me. Poland threw off the State Socialist yoke but it yoked itself to what 'works', democratic capitalism. This introduced another round of primative accumulation, the first being the Stalinist effort and the second the neoliberal version. From afar, it appeared to me that some old heros became scoundrels and some old scoundrals made the transition into the new regime, remaining scoundrels, of course. Today, it appears that the authoritarian right runs the country. Gone is the talk of worker's councils, democracy, equality. This makes me sad whenever I think about it.
I agree that Gorbachev is a hero.
Powodzenia!
Except Solidarity's reigns were in Margret Thatchers' hands from the git.
One of the first color revolutions, if you will.
There is one proceeding apace in Georgia, as we speak.
Gorbachev wanted peace and cooperation. The US empire wanted more empire and still needed an enemy. Hence the US empire proxy war against Russia in Ukraine.
Funnily, he's despised in Russia as someone naive and incompetent at best and malicious moron at worst.
Rather a stupid traitor
@@tonym842 The United States currently sponsors two proxy wars that are neither strategically rational nor morally defensible. And it is preparing for a confrontation with China which, like Russia, wanted a good, mutually beneficial relationship with the United States. The American empire has entered its decline phase. It wants to reverse its imperial decline. It can't. History tells us that all empires die. They can die gracefully -- or not. Russia is putting its nuclear bombers in the field. The fools in Washington believe Putin is bluffing. He's not. Ukraine joining NATO stands as an existential threat for Russia. The Western powers and the Ukraine provoked Russia when it was ready to return to the world stage. I try not to imagine what might come next.
Well, as a German now living in Australia… and noticing my whole western German family (mainly the females) turn political strong left, I believe, the growing of the AFD is based on the complete negligence of middle right conservative voters, just filling that gap. It started with Merkels middle right CDU (switching of nuclear plants and open boarder, green and left topics)! Before that the SPD middle left (labor!) introduced a sharper social system Harz4, also disappointing their voters to the core. The AFD is not right radical but takes over from what the old CDU stood for. SPD and green a currently far far left in power, CDU is not noticeable on the bench. Why left? Its the middle class, (the Bürgertum) revolting, as they always did through history, to define themselves from the 2 other long established classes, farmers and aristocrats. The CDU now openly would lead with the LINKE or BSW, most left parties. Politics atm are focused on de-industrialization (in Germany, imagine!) and social disruption through uncontrolled migration, 90% moslem men. West Germans reaction to feeling ‘left behind’ from capitalism? who knows, but its scary intense
Not right radical? That is only partly true. There are ppeople in AfD which are rather radical and they became more and more influential. Also the stories about Merkel are just wrong: There was no chance to save nuclear power and she did not let the refugees in, they were already in Europe and would have entered anyway. Those were more pragmatic than left wing decisions. The mistakes from conservative perdpective were done already earlier.
Agreed. I left Germany in the mid 80's with my parents, and my mother and I have been watching Germany's course over the past decades with an increasing sense of disquiet. I believe the AFD will come to power relatively soon precisely as a consequence to the overreaching of the Left and what it has done to the country. My father was an immigrant from India but he had assimilated so completely that when we went back to the country of his birth, he was depressed and never again really happy. He spoke German so fluently and without accent that people with whom he had struck up excellent relationships over the phone at work were always surprised (and sadly, often dismayed) to see a brown man instead of the German white male they thought they had spoken with. This was in the 70's and before we left in the 80's. From afar my mother an I have observed a not necessarily for the better change of the cultural fabric that makes up Germany, to the point where she doesn't even care about visiting anymore.
A lot of people seem to block out the fact, that west germany was doing at least mildly profitable business with east germany and even lending them money, so the fall of the wall was not universally welcomed. Adding to this is the fact that the former west german chancellor financed the infrastructure modernisation of east germany with public pension fonds, which haunts the public insurance system up to this very day.
they "lend" money and "bought" the goods produced by the GDR for cheap for their consumer market. please don't tell just half of the truth. thx.
A lot of people seem to ignore the fact that East German capacities were abused as cheap labour and supply resources. The entire Volkswagen and Opel plants were equipped with East German machines, but noone really knew why. Lots of East German quality products, like furniture or garments, had to be sold on the West German market with false labels of origin.
The 'brothers and sisters', as they were called, were in fact abused and exploited as cheap labourers - even after thirty five years. Maybe that is why they vote for totally different parties.
Wonderfull interview makes the 32 minutes with Dan Bednarz an amazing moment due to his deep and sincere research which is reflected entirely in his book..."East German Intellectual and the Unification of Germany. Thanks a lot to Neutrality Studies
excellent...
I heard the Zhou Enlai anecdote differently before: Zhou Enlai was (probably) talking (or even being asked) about the 1968+ student protests in Paris (- part of the student movement in the West was openly Maoist / carrying the “little red book” at the time), and in this context said “it’s too early to tell” (which it probably still was in 1972) - and it was either misunderstood / mistranslated (or intentionally spun into a joke) as “the French Revolution” being “too early to tell”.
(Well: it’s too good a joke obviously: China counting time in thousands of years vs USA counting time in hundreds of years.)
P.S.: I don’t quite remember who told it that way, but it may have been in a speech by Chris Hedges.
It is a good joke but also reflective of Chinese culture. To this day people still can make jokes based on things that happened 2 thousand years ago, or to draw valid and serious political analogies and analysis, etc. Currently the conflicts of the world and break up of western hegemony is getting a lot of references to the Warring States period (400s BC) and all the political shenanigans from that time.
I know the nice story about Zhou en Lai a little different:
he was asked what he thinks about the French Revolution. He answered: it is to early to judge.
wonderful as always
Bankruptcy of soul has a positive correlation with material abundance. A return to God maybe what the future holds for Europe. Or a replay of wars of annihilation.
The Empire of the West calls communism "the god that failed". I agree that communism is a secular religion, but reading the anecdotal accounts here, I'd say that this god succeeded. This is the god that Europe needs to rediscover. Yes, communism is cloaked in "dialectical materialism", but in practice it was rather idealistic.
@@r.w.emersonii3501 christianity is the only real alternative. it already has everything that the enlightenment thinkers and marxists failed to recreate
@@r.w.emersonii3501it is a known issue, and it was one of reasons for eventual failure. When Lenin's theories are treated like the holy scripture, it's very difficult to modify them, which has practical implications.
By the end of USSR, everything could be proven by relying on axiom of diamat.
@@wumi2419 It's my impression that Lenin was a great pragmatist, who adapted theory to fit circumstances. Marxist theory called for revolution in Germany, not Russia! -- Lenin disagreed. Lenin's NEP (1922-28) created free-market communism. I think the dogmatic mentality comes from Stalin, who relied less on reason and more on force. And the Soviet people were deeply traumatized by the cataclysmic war: Trauma induces ritualistic behavior.
@@r.w.emersonii3501 Both of them lived in a time when there was no economic theory of USSR. People were doing what they can, mostly.
NEP ended when it should have, as early 30s were a difficult time, there was famine in Europe and tensions between cities and villages, due to food shortages during revolution happening not too long ago. Expected behavior is price hike for grain or just not selling grain at all. So not compensating villagers saved cities from starvation. Command economy in general is better fit for strategic goals, and USSR needed to catch up to the West in around 10 years.
Near the end of Stalin's life, there was effort to make textbooks for economy and logic, but economy textbook was not completed before his death. Khrushchev did not see it to completion, and in general party opinion on Stalin changed quite fast.
I would say that marked the time when focus began moving from practical problems to more idealistic matters and power struggles.
That's why Central/East EU feels more like Europe than Western EU.
No, that is just not true. Belgium feels very European and Straßbourg as well. It is not that simple.
@@florianmeier3186 I am sure our both comments will age well ;)
I don’t know about that. While on my visits to Poland I found quite a bit of the Poland of my memories, to my eye the country is very americanised.
@@zebrafactory2253 I am not sure what "americanized" means, that they don't live in the 80s? The buildings are modern?
Most Americans expect Eastern EU to be the Hollywood cliches - backward economy, grey buildings, military on every corner...all that crap. My American colegues when visiting my country were shocked that we have luxury hotels and nice cars...
If that's "americanized” - that's ok, as long we don't import the Wokeness, the gangsta "culture”, the shootings...
@@gregpeterson3144 I’m not American. I grew up in Poland.
“Wokeness”, oh, my god, ok… sure, not the 80s - the dark ages.
Very interesting. Thank you
very relevant and interesting . agree completely.
This has been a thoroughly fascinating topic! I have to say I never thought of the “reunification “ as a take over but it makes a lot of sense. Thank you , Pascal!
First 60 seconds and he hits the nail on the head first whack! Right on.
Dan Benarz has wonderful mind telling what really mattered. What a good revealing book. Good works to be emulated by intellectuals where ever they found themselves. Always academics are very useful for global peace and development. Congrats.
Academics are porridge!🤮🤑💩😊
Unique, godsent personality dropped in at the right time and right place.
This video is a treasure. TQ so VM. God bless brothers.
Very interesting topic.
I looked for his book, but couldn't find a copy for under $65, which is somewhat beyond my means. Disappointing.
This is what kept me naive in the 70s South Africa where they had heavy censorship.
The junk is cheap.
Best join a book club to pool your resources.
The establishment knows that people who write good books must be repressed by not allowing them to sell their books in digital form
Let me share something with you: libgen.is. However, I'm just sharing this information with you to let you know that there are horrible people online who dear to STEAL books and put them on pirating sites... I would never ever encourage you to use this homepage. Just for your information that there are such horrible sites.
@@neutralitystudies
Thank you for warning us about the existence of such horrible people who dare to "steal" and disseminate knowledge online. What a truly horrible thing to do!
@@neutralitystudiesif we lived in a decent world people wouldn't have to sell their work for food and shelter and we could share our ideas freely, which is much better for us all. You have chosen the wrong enemy.
The illuminati have made it expensive
This is fascinating. I never knew what actually happened on the ground during "reunification" and how it was a rather comprehensive takeover of the West.
That is just wrong. I was there, it was more complex.
@@florianmeier3186 in what ways?
There was no takeover, the East decided to join. The people in the West were mostly not that enthusiastic as the GDR citzens as we immediately realized how complicated and hard it will become. We even told them. By voting for CDU in 1990 two times they clearly prepared the path for unification. If they now tell they were taken over that is just a lie maybe to cover the frustration of the outcome and how naive they followed Mr Kohl and his promises. Kohl was almost done in the West and without the revolution in the GDR, he might have not re-elected. The leader of the other big party was not in favour of unification. I am glad that it happened now, but at that time most people in the West were much more sceptic than in the East.. You should also consider that the West was not really prepared neither. The idea of unification was constitutional, but in the late 1980s it seemed to be far away, people had arranged to devision of the country and cared about their own business: Reduce weapons, fight about nuclear power, ecologic issues, the past, first significant unemployment etc. Western Germany was even more than todays Germany a very little country with few geostrategic thinking. Later, it might have felt like a take over as businessmen and administrative staff came in huge numbers to the East, closed lots of factories and replaced former employees, but it was wanted in the first place. There are still interviews with Eastern workers and ordinary people available from that time and it confirms my own experiences: They did not trust their leaders anymore and they wanted to become West as soon as possible. Some of the opposition were more sceptical and wanted to go a third way, but they failed to convince the masses after the gates were open. Indulgence was gone. Certainly there were business guys like always who took advantage of the situation and "robbed" the remnants of Eastern economy, but that is not unusual in such situation. Other Eastern countries went trough similar wild transformation process without blaming anyone.
The general attitude was that the West knows best. Everything East German was deemed inferior and needed to be replaced. This thinking extended to even the smallest things like traffic lights. In East Germany the little red and green men indicating stop and go were different than in the West. They were supposed to be replaced, but there was a significant pushback and so the men stayed (at least in Berlin, I’m not sure about the rest of the former East Germany).
@@zebrafactory2253 absolutly. You are right
68 now,worked in Logging camps here on the coast of western Canada.Spent time with people from numerous parts of the world,interesting for a young man from a little town.Found most the Germans very Philosophical.As one said some people come to the bush or rural places,other go to New York or a big city.Worked with some from the east and some from the west.
Here in the States, if you question the corporate narrative to just about anyone you may be met with angry hostility. It is not because they have a difference of opinion, they have no opinion other than what they hear on corporate media. Many cannot even find Russia on a map.
Early on in the Ukrainian conflict, I said, "They are digging up the ghosts of WW2. There is a dark history here."
An answer I received was, "That was then and this is now!"
Mr. Bednarz, you used the right word, gullible...
I bet there are many Americans who still believe their 'boys' had won WW2 on the Bridge of Remagen or on the Island of IwoJima ! Because there is hardly anyone to know better.
I am not anti-American, but I am afraid their knowledge on History, Politics and Geography is a disaster.
Apart from that Americans have not had warfare on their own territory in the past hundred sixty years. They do not even know what it is like ! They watch their heroes on TV while the Magnolias are blossoming in front of the kitchen windows.
@@henryseidel5469 How the ideologues and military strategists in Washington could trivialize the Russian resolve to fend off an invasion speaks to their ignorance of history. Ukraine and Russia together, lost 27 million lives in the 1941-45 drive to Berlin. I am not anti-American either, I just think it is a colossal blunder...