Hi, I was wondering if you could do a college of whispers bard mixed with an assassin? I've been fascinated by the idea but have no real idea on how to set it up.
Thanks! And also, some friends and I are working on an app to let people who want to play but don't have people to play with more easily find people to play with - think Tinder but for gamers! Maybe you'll find it handy one day... ;)
This Assa-Scor-Din Ranger would role play really well with a wizard or a chain lock using a familiar to stealth scout ahead and make sure the rogue can get the big surprise once in a while. It brings to mind how all of these builds need to be ingrained with cooperation for what everyone else wants to do to compliment your abilities and cover your back where you are weak.
My dad died last april.. He played a rouge with my wife and myself. I built this character for his halfling.. Its soooo funny. Wish he was around to see his character lay the smack down. Thanks Colby.
Awesome video and congratulations for 1000 subscribers! You deserve it! About nova damage, I indeed have a build that is powerfull, does not require rogue, but need UA material and a little cheese: You pick up Goblin for Fury of the Small (+level/2 for one roll per rest I think), pick up draconic sorcerer and celestial warlock (+2xCHA for one fire damage roll), then you pick the UA lore school wizard to change force to fire damage.. and maybe some levels in fighter for action surge. Now you cast Magic misile at 9th level, with EB on bonus action. MM lets you roll only one dice, like an area damage spell, so you roll it, add your bonuses, and then multiply it per missile.. and I think you know where I'm going haha
I like the draconic lineage for sorcerer multicasting. The extra hit point per level and auto mage armor feel really helpful if you're worried about survivability. Since you've got war caster, it shouldn't hurt to toss on a shield once you get the proficiency through multi classing.
OMG, I need to use that. "He's not a glass cannon, he's a nuclear bomb." Also question, would take two levels in grave domain cleric help or hurt the numbers? Their channel makes ur target vulnerable to the next attack.
Their channel divinity requires an action ,but using quickened spell Booming blade well actually make this work ,auto crit is double dice ,and vulnerable is double damage ,which is going to be better than twi attacks
Tasha's made BB/GFB not work with Shadowblade, but not all DMs feel that way. If you instead go Divine soul, with or without Shadowblade, you can quicken inflict wounds and then attack with shadowblade or a rapier for sneak attack
if you take metamagic "Extended Spell" you can cast it befor sneak, it's last for 2 minutes now. And with Clockwork you get Bastion of Law, maybe let you survive one more turn ^^
can't wait for bard episode and how amazingly good he is at quite literally EVERYTHING also this may seem like a dumb idea but a fun one for an artificer: make automatons or golems or literally anything you can get your DM to agree to just as long as it's a semi-sentient being. make them for a variety of purposes (but mostly combat) the character name? Edward Greyson Graham Morgan Alexander Nevelle but his friends call him the E.G.G.M.A.N. for short not a fleshed out idea i know but a funny one to try out.
Ha ha - I love it! I plan on doing a ranged bard/fighter build in the near future so stay tuned :). They can get some decent sustained DPS once they get past level 10...
A really cool and extremely powerful rogue build is swashbuckler/bladesinger. Now you could go 6 levels of bladesinger for extra attack and higher level spells. Or you could just stick to 2 levels. You get access to bladesong. Which increases you ac to god tiers. You get booming blade, which pairs perfectly with swashbuckler (get in, hit, move 5 feet back). And booming blade scales as you level up getting you more damage than sneak attack will for 2 levels. Aaaand you get find freakin familiar!
I know I'm late to the video, but I'm very surprised you didn't include 2 levels of Fighter to include Action Surge into the first round of surprise attacks. to almost double everything except for the sneak attack itself. Edit: Just watched the Addendum for this video on the next episode. Looks like you figured it that out yourself. Happy to hear it!
First off, digging your builds. One point (which you wisely did not add into the damage report) about Hunter's Mark. It competes with the Shadow Blade for concentration.
If you truly want to get max damage in a single round per day, 2 levels in fighter for action surge still gives the best result. Because of how gloom stalker gives an extra attack first round of combat when you take the attack action, it means you get 6 attacks, plus the bonus action attack booming blade. That means 3 rogue, 5 ranger, 2 paladin, 8 sorcerer, 2 fighter, meaning level 11 caster? no level 7 spell slot, and you have to use lower level smites for the 3 extra attacks, but it is 3 additional attacks vs a lower level shadowblade, it should still easily make up for it. Damage basically caps at level 18, last couple levels of sorceror are kind of unnecessary, because no 6th level is needed for shadowblade upcasting. I calculate vs a tarrasque at 20th level, you get a total of: 4d8+5 damage base per attack with SB, for 7 attacks critting (including booming blade bonus action(BB damage later))56d8 damage using 5th and 3 4th level spell slots for smites (4 smites), (Save 6th for a real spell :P) that is 40d8 damage using 3rd level spell slots for smites (3 smites), 24d8 damage booming blade damage crit 6d8 damage Dread Ambusher bonus damages, 4d8 damage Sneak Attack 4d6 damage (48 extra d8s I think? at the cost of almost all your magic for the day) Total if all attacks hit, 634 DPR Vs AC 12 or lower, You have a 7999/8000 chance to hit (gotta roll 3 nat 1's) Vs AC 19, 607 Damage on nova round, Vs AC 25 Tarrasque, You gotta roll a 14+ on one of 3 dice each attack, 72.5375% chance to hit, so 460 damage on your first round to tarrasque Trailer: Best Comboed with: Haste (19d8 bonus), Holy Weapon (28d8), Bless (d4's to attack rolls, so +2.5 per attack roll, much better odds), Bardic Inspiration (for 1 attack that might otherwise have missed), You get all of these things, you should be able to run under the tarrasque, and somewhat easily kill him in that single round.
Yep! I actually talk about this in the following episode and how I woke up in the middle of the night berating myself for not putting that in this build :). Great minds think alike!
If you were starting this character from level 1 is that order you would actually multiclass as you were building it? 3 rogue, then 5 ranger, then 2 paladin, then 8 sorc and last 2 fighter? Just curious your thoughts on how you would progress?
@@XX-xx4zs If I was actually going to play this monstrosity, I would try to know what else was in my party first. If no skill monkey, rogue, if no front liner then ranger (just the bigger hit die), no heal at all, paladin, no casters, sorcerer). Preferred for me would be: Ranger, rogue, paladin, then 6 levels of sorcerer (get 5th level spell slot for shadow blade and an ASI/feat), 2 fighter, then 2 more sorcerer I think. But doing it that way doesn't get you shadow blade until level 13, but it leaves you as a very effective character at all times I think. Worst part is 2/3 of the ability score increases become very late like that.
I'd like to see a sorceror episode. In my opinion, dragonborn is a decent class for it because of the elemental resistance and elemental attack combination. Just a neat idea. I've never put a lot of effort into the character's numbers, even when I was a DM for a while. (P.S. I'm not a good DM and gave up on that.)
Lol. Reminds me of the D&D 3.5e Epic Advanced Class: Perfect Assassin. The Gods start calling you in to clean pesky problems in all those hard to reach places... and because it's fun to watch you work.
Gloom stalker 4/ Assassin 4/ Battle Master 12 is my ranged archer nova build. Been doing 200-300 average dmg surprise round [at lv 14] if I get my surprise round. Hunters mark/ dread ambusher/ action surge. EA with piercer and sharpshooter feats. perception shot Bm if you need help hitting or trip/ disarm dmg 2 attack + dread ambusher AS 2 + the additional DA 6 hunters mark hits with SS so basic dice roll on a perfect surprise round would 16d6+22d8+90 [ sneak attack from lv 4 assassin is 2d6*2 from crit = 4d6/ add-in 6 hunters marks *2 for 12d6 = 16d6 in total] [ 6 weapon attacks from a longbow[3*2 AS] 6d8*2 = 12d6 / two dream ambushers with the AS adding 2d8*2 from crit = 16d8 Pluss an additional 6 d8 from Pericer feat " [When you score a critical hit that deals piercing damage to a creature, you can roll one additional damage die when determining the extra piercing damage the target takes."] [ 6 attacks with the longbow so 10*6 sharpshooter] [ Say max modifier so 6*5dex = 30] Average = 245 you still have Battel master maneuvers you can toss in if you don't need precision to land your SS also not to mention having magical weapons or other gear as this is just rolled off dice rolls and your +5 dex mod. Lord help your DM if you ever get Purple worm poison + poisoner feat to ignore poison resistance that would be 12d6 *6 arrows *2 [144d6] that 500 average dmg from poison alone [ though I will admit the number of enemies that are immune to poison is kinda some bullshit -.- ] if any of my math is wrong feel free to correct me
This is also my best alpha strike build though we didn't get to play it past level 14 so i didn't have all the levels. Ended at 4 battlemaster, 5 gloomstalker, 4 assassin
Because that way, and with Sorc points, I can take the attack action *and* get the full benefit from Booming Blade. Attack as normal, then, use sorc points for Quickened Spell to cast booming blade in the same turn - as part of the spell, you get to make a weapon attack and add the extra BB damage. Thanks Meta Magic!
@@shirak8 ha ha - yes you're right, of course! It wouldn't make sense to do once you had your 5th level in Ranger due to getting two attacks when you take the attack action, but for this build that doesn't come until level 13 so that's a long time to be going double BB. Nice find!
I know you said that rogues don't keep up with the DPS other classes can do, but I'd be curious to know how Rogues with a Battlemaster Fighter using Commander's Strike in their party stack up against some of these other builds. A group I played with had that combo and was amazing, but we didn't get to a very high level. We sort of stumbled onto the combo, but I was able to use one of my Fighter's many attacks to let the rogue do all of their sneak attack damage a second time each Round by burning their reaction, it's an amazing synergy, and I'm actually sad that party isn't active anymore, but that also means I get to come up with a new character now, which is what brought me here, thanks for all these videos they're great to help me come up with my next character.
if you wave goodbye to the rogue at level 3 how can you get Elvin accuracy? and with the new tashas you dont get +2 to dex any more. its a separate thing.
So this would be my variation (assuming custom lineage allows you to take racial feats). 27 Assassin Rogue 3/Paladin 2/Gloom Stalker Ranger 5/Draconic Sorcerer 5/Whispers Bard 5 22 Str 13 13 Dex 15->17->18 ->20 11 Con 10 10 Int 9 5 Wis 13 5 Char 13 Feats: Elven Accuracy, +2 Dex, Dual Wielder, Tough AC: 17 (Studded Leather, Dual Wielder) HP: 150 (You'll probably want to find an amulet of health). Initiative: +6 Speed: 30ft With the errata in Tasha's BB/GFB no longer work with shadow blade. With this in mind, use shadow blade for all your attacks, & quicken BB/GFB with a normal weapon (or hopefully something like a flame tongue). The Damage calculations are now: 1st attack: 10d8+7 2nd attack: 10d8+7 3rd attack (Gloom Stalker): 12d8+7 4th attack (Quickened BB/GFB): 2d8+7+6d8 Smites (using 3 4th level spells slots & 1 5th level spell slot): 40d8 (10d8 per attack). Psychic Blades: 6d6 Sneak Attack: 4d6 This gives a total of 80d8(360)+10d6(35)+28 for a total of 423 assuming all 3 land. Not as good as the 438 average of the pre-Tasha build, but still a lot.
I just had a thought. I think there are two issues with rogues that should be addressed. One, like you said, the rogues sneak damage doesn’t quite keep up. Two, there is next to no reason to use a dagger as a rogue which I personally feel is a shame. I think a good solution to both of these issues is to make daggers have an innate feature that increases your sneak damage by 1d6 per magic level ( +1 adds 1d6, +2 adds 2d6, +3 adds 3d6). Dual wielding daggers does not stack this effect. I think this would make a dagger-wielding rogue viable while giving them a much needed bump in their damaged output later on without giving them too much power at the lower levels.
currently running a gnome rogue. she's lvl 2 atm. dm is doing milestones (which I'm not a fan of.) we are a 4-man group. a gnome wizard scroll archetype, halfling barbarian, halfling barbarian druid. no healer. every encounter is deadly. dm says hes not trying to kill us but my pc has been sheet dead 2 times so far. lol
i can't understand the action management explanation when you are at lv.6 So he said that summon shadow blade like a bonus action then attack and then booming blade? at lv.6 a Rogue has 1 action and 1 bonus action, so he can't cast booming blade assuming he has already attacked normally with the sneak attack. So i Assume he casts shadow blade before the initiative start, so che can have a new round to do all that stuff. But Someone can explain me how he does 10d8? i think he does 9d8 because booming blade says if the target moves willingly moves 5 feet or more, he takes 1d8, but can't count it like crit. minute: 19:40
Thanks! I'll put it on the list - would thrown weapons count or are you looking for true ranged weapons only? Edit to say, even though it's called the Infiltrator, this one was sort of meant to function as the party's rogue... czcams.com/video/7L_nbyrgr1A/video.html
What is the reason why u dont put in the 2 Paladin lvl befor u Start with sorcerer? And here i would go into shadow sorcerer for the darkness spell where only u can See through Iam looking forward to See a nice Video about a full supp char. I tried it with a yuanti Divination wizzzard 2, lore bard. With the inspiring leader feat. So i can use omen, Inspiration and have a great big spell list with battlefield control spells
Because I want to get Shadow Blade asap, not to mention Quickened Spell for Booming Blade and more spell slots. I've done a full support character - check episode 15!
Highly, highly, situational; But... couple with party member who is Cleric: Grave Domain , And they go right before this character, and enemy hasn't acted this round, Cleric = Path to the Grave, then this character hits with that surprise/sneak attack... 😏
not situational. this can be done by a character all by himself at tier 2. i have played a couple of builds that's grave cleric + assassin + 3rd class (i had a divine soul and a battlemaster). great burst dmg and as long as your party buys into the ambush approach (no one uses heavy armor, everyone gets stealth or at least lets you scout ahead solo) and you don't have an anti-surprise DM then surprise is doable for 50-75% of the combats.
I've never played one, but a sustained damage build sounds like it might not be that interesting to play, as it seems like you have one optimal thing to do with your resouces and few choices to make other than who to attack. At least with burst damage you have to decide when to use your resources, and that can keep me engaged.
I think it all depends on the player - some of us just love to hit really hard every round :P. But yes, having options of things to do can definitely add a layer of interesting (which is why I think I love the Bladesinger so much...)
I personally prefer burst as well as it has higher potential to remove a target off the board as well early. And imo burst doesnt mean the sustained dmg after the burst is terrible.
I'd ask your DM to work with you to come up with some great ideas to multi-class. Say you want to try a specific build and you want to work it into the story. I'm sure a DM would be more than happy to have an opportunity to work with you on story beats.
An assassin for the church that has magic in his bloodline that the church specifically was looking for to create a powerful weapon against evil. You’re welcome!
Love all your videos (and the podcast while I'm on-the-go)! I'd like to add an FYI for those like me who are planning a low-level campaign. A Variant Human Assassin with 16 Dex and Dual Wielder Feat armed with 2 Rapiers is the highest average nova damage at Level 3 (33.6 vs 10AC, 27.9 vs 15AC). Then immediately adding 2 levels of Paladin gets you the highest average nova damage I've yet been able to theorycraft at Level 5 (69.4 vs 10AC, 59.6 vs 15AC). Of course you have only two spell slots at Level 5. Whether you go Warlock or Sorcerer next is up to personal preference and length of campaign. I personally like Warlock for getting 2 fresh new spell slots every Short Rest. I also found a fun variation for your Assasserer Build to help it dominate in battlefield control: take the Spell Sniper feat, and armed with a Whip, you can Booming Blade + Divine Smite TWO DIFFERENT TARGETS FROM 10 FEET AWAY, plus Sneak Attack damage to one of them (spending just 1 Sorcery Point to Twin Booming Blade, or 2 Sorcery Points to Quicken it and deal all this damage to ONE target). AND they'll have to suffer extra lightning damage if they want to melee attack you back without reach weapons. Add the Sentinel Feat, and you significantly increase the number of times you can Sneak Attack + Divine Smite on THEIR turns, too. Wield a Whip and Rapier together, and you have more options for attacks, plus 2 threat radiuses for Opportunity Attacks, so it's much harder for them to run past you. Or Whip and Shield together, and you're a pretty legit tank. Lastly, play Shadow Sorcerer, and with Darkness cast, you're a Sneak Attack MACHINE. So much versatility!!
Thanks for the compliment *and* for the ideas - love them! I wonder... with Spell Sniper and a whip + Booming blade, couldn't you make the argument that your booming blade attack would have a range of 20ft? 10ft normally, doubled for Spell Sniper? Perhaps the DM might rule that the "make a melee attack" bit of Booming Blade trumps the "range is doubled" of spell sniper, but I could see the argument going either way...
@@DnDDeepDive Thanks for the reply! Ah, well, the reason why you need Spell Sniper in the first place is because both Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade specify "5 Foot Range" in the spell description, hence why you need to double it before using a reach weapon to full potential at all (the game designers probably figured out early on that Booming Blade with automatic Reach is probably too strong of a cantrip). Technically, a Sorcerer could do it without the feat, and just use Distant Spell every time, but that would eat up sorcery points.
Well, the vast majority of my builds are made to come online as early as possible - my intent has always been to create characters that are strong throughout and not just at level 20 :). There are a couple of exceptions to that rule, but one good way to find a character that's maybe especially powerful by level 6 is to check the comparison spreadsheets I put in the video descriptions and find one you like!
based on a poll from dnd beyond, most campaign gameplay happens at tier 2 (level 6-10). you're almost right though. next on the list is tier 1 (levels 1-5). then tier 3 then its very rare for tables to play tier 4.
I think I just really wanted to be a rogue :). Plus the burst damage on a surprised target was a bit higher with Shadow Blade, Auto-crits, and sneak damage.
Honestly I'm surprised you didnt go the rogue gloomstalker with crossbow expert and sharpshooter. You get 4 attacks on first shot and 3 each round after. Then if you really want you can either go 3 lvl fighter or just keep going rogue rest of way. Cause as you said flat damage each shot is better than rolling double dice.
Right - if I were going for sustained damage there are definitely some things I'd tweak. Here I was really trying to explore the biggest numbers I could get in a single round. I'm assuming you watched episode 2 already where I go into Sharpshooter/Xbow expert? Also - I think taking a fighter dip is definitely viable here and, in fact, encouraged. I'm tempted to make an addendum to say "give up a level of sorcerer so you can get Action Surge" since we're focused pretty exclusively on one big turn.
@@DnDDeepDive will say if you add fighter you could go echo knight for another free attack once in a while plus a chance to use reaction aoo with your echo
I think you can't cast Booming Blade with Shadow blade cause you need a melee weapon worth at least 1 sp as component for Booming Blade... So that's a problem. But cool concept anyway.
Colby, I fear you're misunderstanding something about Surprise. I get that it's very common to have different understandings about Surprise, and that you get that too, because you said to talk with your DM first. But RAW is RAW, so let's take a look. "If you're surprised, you can't move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can't take a reaction until that turn ends." So Surprised disappears at the end of "that turn." It does NOT go away at the end of the round, where a round is the sum of one turn for each combat participant. Which turn? The previously mentioned "your first turn of the combat," the one where you can't move or take actions. Who is "you" here? The Surprised creature ("if you're Surprised"). So as soon as combat begins, all participants roll Initiative. If the Surprised creature goes before the Assassin in Initiative order, then by the time it's the Assassin's first turn of the combat, that creature is no longer Surprised. No automatic critical conversion against that creature. The Assassin still has Advantage on all Attacks for the round - the creature hasn't taken an action yet, and the Assassin class feature specifically grants it - but that creature has access to Reactions if the Surprise is gone already. They might have quick enough reflexes to toss up a Shield spell at the last second, if so prepared. By the way, this is what is meant by RAW "A member of a group can be surprised even if the other members aren't." Surprise falls off in Initiative order, so some will lose it before others do. Because of this, Initiative is critical (pun intended) for an Assassin. A multiclass into Gloom Stalker makes even more sense, due to the Wisdom Initiative class feature, and the Alert feat becomes very appealing to Assassins. Because getting the most out of your "nova round" depends entirely on an Initiative contest, and if you lose that contest, there goes half of your damage from dice.
I've only done a couple of supports. One here: czcams.com/video/9jWvUvfLgSo/video.html and another here as part of a Team build: czcams.com/video/w-haeMbseQ4/video.html
Did I miss the part where you explain how you get Surprise to proc the Crit? Surprise in 5e is a debatably difficult condition to acquire, unless you are suitably alone.
Nope you didn’t - you’d have to get surprise the same way anyone does. Through stealth, luck, a willing DM and a willing party. It’s the greatest weakness of the build and the reason it’s so unreliable. But when you can pull it off...
@@genxmonk70 hmm... personally at our table we haven't found it difficult because our DM plays it very RAW regardless of whether he feels surprises gives the players too much of an advantage. my guess is it's difficult at your table and at others is because more DMs are house-ruling it not too occur or making it too difficult to happen because they don't want make encounters easier for the party or adjust the difficulty of the encounter to account for the possibility of surprise/stealth. Surprise condition at start of combat is simply generated when one creature (not necessarily one side) is unaware of the other starting combat. A whole side can be wholly surprised or maybe just a few of them are surprised. To make a side or creature unaware of the start of a combat, it just means you are undetectabe which means: 1. you started the battle invisible (easy for gloomstalkers in darkness as they have auto-invisibility in darkness). 2. you approach and see the enemy while stealthed and have actual hiding places (you aren't in plain view) or illusions to hide in. In both cases, the ambushing side rolls stealth the ambushed side rolls perception. Those who are ambushed that beats the lowest stealth roll of the ambushing side ARENT surprised. Those who don't beat it get the surprised condition until they end their 1st turn. This is also why if you are a gloomstalker you ask your party to hang back so their lower stealth rolls don't bring down your party stealth DC for your opponents to oppose with perception. Once the 1st round is over, then your ambusher can call back to the party members hanging back or go back to where the rest of the party is and those who hung back can roll initiative and join the ongoing fight. Of course if all the party members are good with stealth (hello pass without trace) and with adequate hiding spots in the environment or all have ways to turn invisible then everyone can join in the ambush.
@@TheRobversion1 I understand how surprise works. The part that makes it difficult to reliably/consistently count on is the Party. That is 3, 4, or 5 other players that need to be undetected. So if enemy detects sound or sees motion from one member, your surprise is done. Now I'm not sure how your adventures go, but in my experience we rarely encounter bands of enemies that are just oblivious to their surroundings and I've almost never had a party where at least one person was incapable of following a plan.
If you want to assassinate just go full rogue assassin. The only thing you have to decide what fits your campaign more. Dex based assassin or a charisma based one.
“If you're surprised, you can't move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can't take a reaction until that turn ends.” Looks like it lasts until the end of your first turn.
Unfortunately they recently erated those 2 cantrips to the wpn must have a cost of at least 1sp. No more using them with shadow blade. Have an old pc that did that. Hard to play him now.
I don't understand where you get your damage numbers from. Take your level six damage report; you are doing 4d8 + 4d6 + 2 = 34 points with your first attack and 2d6 + 2d8 +2= 18 for your second. That comes out to 52 hit points, before considering the target's AC. You showed Damage Report! Vs 10 AC: 64, Vs 15: 55. This is obviously wrong, unless I am missing something. Please respond!
Not sure if he works with .5 or rounds up and works with 5 as average for a d8 and 4 for a d6. Also you mixed the numbers a little: First hit: 4d6 Sneak + 4d8 + 3 SB + 2. Second hit: 2d8 BB + 4d8 + 3 SB + 2. But this doesnt work anyway with Tashas as you cant BB with SB.
First... suprise is very difficult to achieve. easier to do with pass without trace. so make sure you have a handy druid amonst your numbers. the idea is good but dont worry about suprise.. be more concerned with going first and getting advantage for free.
i love your concepts and the questions you try to answer and there's so much great information I just wish you talked faster sp the videos weren't so long
Pop a Bonus Action Grave Cleric Path to the Grave and boom they have vulnerability to all of your damage on one attack to stack with the crit, at the cost of 2 levels diverted to Cleric. Or just get a party member to do it (or even Contagion Flesh Rot in advance albeit that's probably resisted by worthy foes and easy to remove for the rest).
I am confused about so many things in this video. Attack Actions VS Spell Attack Actions Extra Attack does not trigger on Spell Attacks, only Attack Actions. Attack Actions are distinct from Cast Spell Actions. Attack Actions only work with melee or ranged weapon attacks or unarmed strikes. When a Spell is cast, the main action becomes a Cast a Spell action. The Attack action allows the player to make an attack with a weapon or unarmed strike, but not all attacks require that the player actually take the attack action. Spells such as Firebolt use the Cast a Spell action. The Ready action can be used to ready an attack but is a distinct action from the Attack action altogether. In short, all Attack actions are attacks, but not all attacks are Attack actions. Extra Attack can only trigger on an Attack action. Regardless of what spell is cast, it cannot trigger on a Cast a Spell action because “Cast a Spell” is not an Attack action. Therefore, you cannot combine the shadow blade + quicken blade + extra attacks. Right? You have to either choose to use the shadowblade and quicken blade OR the gloom stalker's 2 extra attacks at level 5, but you can't do both.
It’s been a long time since this one, but yes, if I suggested using Booming Blade as an action it wouldn’t work. You could Quicken Booming Blade as a BA and then take the attack action with your shadows blade and be fine, of course, qualifying for all of your extra attack/gloomstalker benefits. I think that’s what I intended, but can’t remember if I misspoke.
if people don't get the how much over kill it is at level 20 the damage you deal can kill 1 and 90% of and adult red dragon, and it is a 19 AC monster the 2nd dragon stays alive with 93 hp if you do the average 419 damage, if you lucky you can make it 0 this is very much over kill.
We should note that Quickened Spell and Subtle Spell can *not* be used together on any spell, so ... if you use Quickened Spell on Booming Blade, you're going to spoil surprise (no automatic criticals if your DM is rational and doesn't want to allow one damage dealer to dominate the game), and if you use Subtle Spell on it, you're only going to get one attack.
I've seen this build with Gloom Stalker before. Personally I prefer to optimize for max damage in 1 hit rather than one round. With magic items I was able to calculate up to 504 damage in 1 hit. I prefer this build simply for the simplicity. You drop a bucket of dice in front of your DM and laugh in chaotic evil as the thing dies. And your turn doesn't take 8 years to execute. Here's the google doc if you're interested: docs.google.com/document/d/1feduvKYNRGw3j5SGh8TCZshKq3zEYrz56KkEjAEyXYs/edit?usp=sharing
Have you seen treemonk’s presentation of “shadow blade assassin”? Lvl 20 nova round 591 damage as AVERAGE, if everything hits. 1023 max damage. Here is a link to it: czcams.com/video/5eJDWG0UlsM/video.html
@@TheRobversion1 I play with mostly rp focused groups. It's pretty challenging to come up with how your Paladin became a Rogue for a little bit, then sold his soul to a Fiend while attending Bard School.
Yeah these early videos were pretty bad from an editing/professionalism perspective. Feel free to skip along to the later catalogue where I mostly curb that :).
this is a bad idea. you probably shouldn't encourage this behavior. nothing against you but yea, your going to get MANY comments like mine because over-optimization can ruin the game. If you wanna run with this theme, show how to make unorthodox builds. give some tips on playing a Gish (martial/arcane) or what to do with the Arcane Trickster like if its a good idea to pick up a level of Fighter or Wizard early on. you could also show how to do things like build a necromancer or geomancer, things that are hard to do well in 5e which used to be really cool in 3.5
Dood. Optimizing is fun. Theory craft is fun. If you don't like it, don't do it. But don't try to yell others what they should and should not do. It's kind of dickish.
Its not Dickish, its a warning followed by a suggestion. When you have a player watching videos and reading guides to minmax a rogue in D&D5e, that player is going to be way too invested in his sheet and not in the character that sheet is meant to detail. Like I suggested, the concept of a video going into detail about building a character is fine but rather than focus on max dps or getting THE MOST defence, focus on niche ideas that ppl may not know how to do.
@@ninjabluefyre3815 then they do. What's the problem. Most ppl just like talking about the theory. Very few play characters this way because the sacrifice of skills and abilities makes them boring in anything but combat.
@@Felix.Fictus sorry man it still sounds like you're just being bossy. This kind of theory craft is a creative outlet and is fun to do for some. If people try to play a campaign with such a one sided character they will soon learn that lack of skills and abilities makes for a boring character. Even combat is lame with only one trick after a while.. But the discussion of the mechanics is fun and interesting and when broken down small pieces can be used to help some characters. If you don't like the flavour then don't watch. If you have suggestions feel free to share them. But watch your tone and avoid trying to tell ppl what not to do. My 2 cents.
Come join the conversation at reddit.com/r/DnDoptimized/
You're awesome man! I love the chillness and open discussion on your ideas. Thanks for being you amd doing what you do :D
@@chacepassmore6474 Thank you! Glad you're enjoying :)
Hi, I was wondering if you could do a college of whispers bard mixed with an assassin? I've been fascinated by the idea but have no real idea on how to set it up.
@@sferris9947 Yeah, I've used Whispers a fair bit in other builds, but not coupled with an Assassin... will put it on the to do list :).
@@DnDDeepDive ok thank you so much. Can't wait to see the video
Level 1:(see above) [rogue 1 & race]
Level 2:(@15:01) [rogue 2]
Level 3:(@15:06) [rogue 3 & sub-class]
Level 4:(@15:34) [sorcerer 1 & sub-class]
Level 5:(@16:50) [sorcerer 2]
Level 6:(@17:09) [sorcerer 3]
Level 7:(see above) [paladin 1]
Level 8:(@21:47) [paladin 2 & fighting-style]
Level 9:(@24:00) [ranger 1]
Level 10:(see above) [ranger 2 & fighting-style]
Level 11:(@26:34) [ranger 3 & sub-class]
Level 12:(@27:30) [ranger 4 & ASI]
Level 13:(@28:09) [ranger 5]
Levels 14-16:(see above) [sorcerer 4-6 & ASI]
Level 17:(@30:50) [sorcerer 7's damage report]
Level 20:(@31:53) [sorcerer 10's damage report]
I dont even play D&D but I like these videos. Subbed
Thanks! And also, some friends and I are working on an app to let people who want to play but don't have people to play with more easily find people to play with - think Tinder but for gamers! Maybe you'll find it handy one day... ;)
@@DnDDeepDive Go with an Uber style rating system for DM's. Keep them honest. :P
@@honorablevalor6337 the same should be done for players, just like they do with riders on uber.
@@DnDDeepDive yo did you ever make this or did it get dropped/is it still in progress?
@@Siennarchist still in progress! The big challenge is we all have day jobs :). But we’re hoping to be ready for Kickstarter early next year!
Love it. You know me I air on the side of what is cool or fits the theme of my character but it's awesome to see how hard each can hit!
Shadow blade and Hunter’s Mark are concentration spells.
Truth! Good thing I didn't add them into my number crunching :).
You weren't wrong, this is good stuff. Keep up the great work.
This Assa-Scor-Din Ranger would role play really well with a wizard or a chain lock using a familiar to stealth scout ahead and make sure the rogue can get the big surprise once in a while. It brings to mind how all of these builds need to be ingrained with cooperation for what everyone else wants to do to compliment your abilities and cover your back where you are weak.
My dad died last april.. He played a rouge with my wife and myself. I built this character for his halfling.. Its soooo funny. Wish he was around to see his character lay the smack down. Thanks Colby.
Sorry to hear it, and glad his memory lives on!
Awesome video and congratulations for 1000 subscribers! You deserve it!
About nova damage, I indeed have a build that is powerfull, does not require rogue, but need UA material and a little cheese:
You pick up Goblin for Fury of the Small (+level/2 for one roll per rest I think), pick up draconic sorcerer and celestial warlock (+2xCHA for one fire damage roll), then you pick the UA lore school wizard to change force to fire damage.. and maybe some levels in fighter for action surge.
Now you cast Magic misile at 9th level, with EB on bonus action. MM lets you roll only one dice, like an area damage spell, so you roll it, add your bonuses, and then multiply it per missile.. and I think you know where I'm going haha
That's some cheesy goodness!
I like the draconic lineage for sorcerer multicasting. The extra hit point per level and auto mage armor feel really helpful if you're worried about survivability. Since you've got war caster, it shouldn't hurt to toss on a shield once you get the proficiency through multi classing.
OMG, I need to use that. "He's not a glass cannon, he's a nuclear bomb."
Also question, would take two levels in grave domain cleric help or hurt the numbers? Their channel makes ur target vulnerable to the next attack.
Their channel divinity requires an action ,but using quickened spell Booming blade well actually make this work ,auto crit is double dice ,and vulnerable is double damage ,which is going to be better than twi attacks
Tasha's made BB/GFB not work with Shadowblade, but not all DMs feel that way.
If you instead go Divine soul, with or without Shadowblade, you can quicken inflict wounds and then attack with shadowblade or a rapier for sneak attack
if you take metamagic "Extended Spell" you can cast it befor sneak, it's last for 2 minutes now. And with Clockwork you get Bastion of Law, maybe let you survive one more turn ^^
can't wait for bard episode and how amazingly good he is at quite literally EVERYTHING
also this may seem like a dumb idea but a fun one for an artificer: make automatons or golems or literally anything you can get your DM to agree to just as long as it's a semi-sentient being. make them for a variety of purposes (but mostly combat)
the character name? Edward Greyson Graham Morgan Alexander Nevelle but his friends call him the E.G.G.M.A.N. for short
not a fleshed out idea i know but a funny one to try out.
Ha ha - I love it! I plan on doing a ranged bard/fighter build in the near future so stay tuned :). They can get some decent sustained DPS once they get past level 10...
Hey Kalkit - I got your Bard episode all done, and even gave you a shout out :). Check it out! czcams.com/video/dMcJzLmGo0w/video.html
A really cool and extremely powerful rogue build is swashbuckler/bladesinger.
Now you could go 6 levels of bladesinger for extra attack and higher level spells. Or you could just stick to 2 levels.
You get access to bladesong. Which increases you ac to god tiers.
You get booming blade, which pairs perfectly with swashbuckler (get in, hit, move 5 feet back).
And booming blade scales as you level up getting you more damage than sneak attack will for 2 levels.
Aaaand you get find freakin familiar!
That ability score requirements is, what Monty and Kelly call "Fail before start" or something like that, yet as always You become an exception ;)
I know I'm late to the video, but I'm very surprised you didn't include 2 levels of Fighter to include Action Surge into the first round of surprise attacks. to almost double everything except for the sneak attack itself.
Edit: Just watched the Addendum for this video on the next episode. Looks like you figured it that out yourself. Happy to hear it!
I did when I reworked it later - check the “How Tasha’s changed everything” vid I posted a few months later if you’re interested :)
First off, digging your builds. One point (which you wisely did not add into the damage report) about Hunter's Mark. It competes with the Shadow Blade for concentration.
Thanks! And yes, thanks for the reminder :).
If you truly want to get max damage in a single round per day, 2 levels in fighter for action surge still gives the best result.
Because of how gloom stalker gives an extra attack first round of combat when you take the attack action, it means you get 6 attacks, plus the bonus action attack booming blade. That means 3 rogue, 5 ranger, 2 paladin, 8 sorcerer, 2 fighter, meaning level 11 caster? no level 7 spell slot, and you have to use lower level smites for the 3 extra attacks, but it is 3 additional attacks vs a lower level shadowblade, it should still easily make up for it. Damage basically caps at level 18, last couple levels of sorceror are kind of unnecessary, because no 6th level is needed for shadowblade upcasting.
I calculate vs a tarrasque at 20th level, you get a total of:
4d8+5 damage base per attack with SB, for 7 attacks critting (including booming blade bonus action(BB damage later))56d8 damage
using 5th and 3 4th level spell slots for smites (4 smites), (Save 6th for a real spell :P) that is 40d8 damage
using 3rd level spell slots for smites (3 smites), 24d8 damage
booming blade damage crit 6d8 damage
Dread Ambusher bonus damages, 4d8 damage
Sneak Attack 4d6 damage
(48 extra d8s I think? at the cost of almost all your magic for the day)
Total if all attacks hit, 634 DPR
Vs AC 12 or lower, You have a 7999/8000 chance to hit (gotta roll 3 nat 1's)
Vs AC 19, 607 Damage on nova round,
Vs AC 25 Tarrasque, You gotta roll a 14+ on one of 3 dice each attack, 72.5375% chance to hit, so 460 damage on your first round to tarrasque
Trailer:
Best Comboed with: Haste (19d8 bonus), Holy Weapon (28d8), Bless (d4's to attack rolls, so +2.5 per attack roll, much better odds), Bardic Inspiration (for 1 attack that might otherwise have missed), You get all of these things, you should be able to run under the tarrasque, and somewhat easily kill him in that single round.
Yep! I actually talk about this in the following episode and how I woke up in the middle of the night berating myself for not putting that in this build :). Great minds think alike!
@@DnDDeepDive Yup, got there now while watching all these masterpieces! Keep up the epic work
Joseph Yungman ha ha - thanks!
If you were starting this character from level 1 is that order you would actually multiclass as you were building it? 3 rogue, then 5 ranger, then 2 paladin, then 8 sorc and last 2 fighter? Just curious your thoughts on how you would progress?
@@XX-xx4zs If I was actually going to play this monstrosity, I would try to know what else was in my party first. If no skill monkey, rogue, if no front liner then ranger (just the bigger hit die), no heal at all, paladin, no casters, sorcerer). Preferred for me would be: Ranger, rogue, paladin, then 6 levels of sorcerer (get 5th level spell slot for shadow blade and an ASI/feat), 2 fighter, then 2 more sorcerer I think. But doing it that way doesn't get you shadow blade until level 13, but it leaves you as a very effective character at all times I think. Worst part is 2/3 of the ability score increases become very late like that.
Good tips exspecially about being a sorcerer/paladin
I'd like to see a sorceror episode. In my opinion, dragonborn is a decent class for it because of the elemental resistance and elemental attack combination. Just a neat idea. I've never put a lot of effort into the character's numbers, even when I was a DM for a while. (P.S. I'm not a good DM and gave up on that.)
I have plans to do a Sorcerer build with a Warlock dip in the near future so stay tuned!
Right - the Sorc episode is up - hope you like it! czcams.com/video/OR7yOmvDBv8/video.html
Why not take a 2 level dip into fighter for the action surge, instead of going for level 7 shadow blade?
When I update this build in the "How Tasha's Changes Everything" episode, I do exactly that :)
@@DnDDeepDive well that’s what I get for watching them in chronological order 😅
@@gregorhancock145 same I'm over here like wtf no way it can do more... Sigh and damn and 👏
Lol. Reminds me of the D&D 3.5e Epic Advanced Class: Perfect Assassin. The Gods start calling you in to clean pesky problems in all those hard to reach places... and because it's fun to watch you work.
Gloom stalker 4/ Assassin 4/ Battle Master 12 is my ranged archer nova build. Been doing 200-300 average dmg surprise round [at lv 14] if I get my surprise round. Hunters mark/ dread ambusher/ action surge. EA with piercer and sharpshooter feats. perception shot Bm if you need help hitting or trip/ disarm dmg 2 attack + dread ambusher AS 2 + the additional DA 6 hunters mark hits with
SS so basic dice roll on a perfect surprise round would 16d6+22d8+90
[ sneak attack from lv 4 assassin is 2d6*2 from crit = 4d6/ add-in 6 hunters marks *2 for 12d6 = 16d6 in total]
[ 6 weapon attacks from a longbow[3*2 AS] 6d8*2 = 12d6 / two dream ambushers with the AS adding 2d8*2 from crit = 16d8 Pluss an additional 6 d8 from Pericer feat "
[When you score a critical hit that deals piercing damage to a creature, you can roll one additional damage die when determining the extra piercing damage the target takes."]
[ 6 attacks with the longbow so 10*6 sharpshooter]
[ Say max modifier so 6*5dex = 30]
Average = 245 you still have Battel master maneuvers you can toss in if you don't need precision to land your SS also not to mention having magical weapons or other gear as this is just rolled off dice rolls and your +5 dex mod. Lord help your DM if you ever get Purple worm poison + poisoner feat to ignore poison resistance that would be 12d6 *6 arrows *2 [144d6] that 500 average dmg from poison alone [ though I will admit the number of enemies that are immune to poison is kinda some bullshit -.- ]
if any of my math is wrong feel free to correct me
This is also my best alpha strike build though we didn't get to play it past level 14 so i didn't have all the levels. Ended at 4 battlemaster, 5 gloomstalker, 4 assassin
Piercer lets you reroll a damage die and use the new roll, it doesn't add a damage die does it?
What are you thoughts on using War Priest instead of Paladin?
Doing a 8 Assassin/8 War Priest/4 Gloomstalker or Sorcerer.
What about focusing on the spell Tiny Servant? Maybe a double build or just the spell?
what do you think the best one or two subclasses ineach class are to play undead killers?
Goblin Shadow Monk 6 / (PYF) Rogue 14 is a pretty dope build
At lv 6 why don't you cast booming blade as an action instead of the attack action? For +2d8..
Because that way, and with Sorc points, I can take the attack action *and* get the full benefit from Booming Blade. Attack as normal, then, use sorc points for Quickened Spell to cast booming blade in the same turn - as part of the spell, you get to make a weapon attack and add the extra BB damage. Thanks Meta Magic!
@@DnDDeepDive no, I wasn't clear. As your action you can cast booming blade. Then as a bonus action you can cast a quickened booming blade again.
@@shirak8 ha ha - yes you're right, of course! It wouldn't make sense to do once you had your 5th level in Ranger due to getting two attacks when you take the attack action, but for this build that doesn't come until level 13 so that's a long time to be going double BB. Nice find!
I know you said that rogues don't keep up with the DPS other classes can do, but I'd be curious to know how Rogues with a Battlemaster Fighter using Commander's Strike in their party stack up against some of these other builds. A group I played with had that combo and was amazing, but we didn't get to a very high level. We sort of stumbled onto the combo, but I was able to use one of my Fighter's many attacks to let the rogue do all of their sneak attack damage a second time each Round by burning their reaction, it's an amazing synergy, and I'm actually sad that party isn't active anymore, but that also means I get to come up with a new character now, which is what brought me here, thanks for all these videos they're great to help me come up with my next character.
Thanks! And let's just say I think you'll like the episode this week :). Not teaming them up with a Battlemaster, but maybe something better... ;)
Since we are concerned with just a 1st round burst why not do a 2 level dip into fighter for action surge ?
if you wave goodbye to the rogue at level 3 how can you get Elvin accuracy? and with the new tashas you dont get +2 to dex any more. its a separate thing.
Upped playback to 1.25. Absolute game changer. Highly recommend for anyone else who may be falling asleep to these. The content is great
So this would be my variation (assuming custom lineage allows you to take racial feats).
27 Assassin Rogue 3/Paladin 2/Gloom Stalker Ranger 5/Draconic Sorcerer 5/Whispers Bard 5
22 Str 13
13 Dex 15->17->18 ->20
11 Con 10
10 Int 9
5 Wis 13
5 Char 13
Feats: Elven Accuracy, +2 Dex, Dual Wielder, Tough
AC: 17 (Studded Leather, Dual Wielder)
HP: 150 (You'll probably want to find an amulet of health).
Initiative: +6
Speed: 30ft
With the errata in Tasha's BB/GFB no longer work with shadow blade. With this in mind, use shadow blade for all your attacks, & quicken BB/GFB with a normal weapon (or hopefully something like a flame tongue).
The Damage calculations are now:
1st attack: 10d8+7
2nd attack: 10d8+7
3rd attack (Gloom Stalker): 12d8+7
4th attack (Quickened BB/GFB): 2d8+7+6d8
Smites (using 3 4th level spells slots & 1 5th level spell slot): 40d8 (10d8 per attack).
Psychic Blades: 6d6
Sneak Attack: 4d6
This gives a total of 80d8(360)+10d6(35)+28 for a total of 423 assuming all 3 land. Not as good as the 438 average of the pre-Tasha build, but still a lot.
I just had a thought. I think there are two issues with rogues that should be addressed. One, like you said, the rogues sneak damage doesn’t quite keep up. Two, there is next to no reason to use a dagger as a rogue which I personally feel is a shame. I think a good solution to both of these issues is to make daggers have an innate feature that increases your sneak damage by 1d6 per magic level ( +1 adds 1d6, +2 adds 2d6, +3 adds 3d6). Dual wielding daggers does not stack this effect. I think this would make a dagger-wielding rogue viable while giving them a much needed bump in their damaged output later on without giving them too much power at the lower levels.
Background: you were a adventuring party that got tricked by a wizard fusing the entire party into one person.😂
Can someone summarize me what you do in a round ? Because I’m kinda lost with all these actions and bonus actions
currently running a gnome rogue. she's lvl 2 atm. dm is doing milestones (which I'm not a fan of.) we are a 4-man group. a gnome wizard scroll archetype, halfling barbarian, halfling barbarian druid. no healer. every encounter is deadly. dm says hes not trying to kill us but my pc has been sheet dead 2 times so far. lol
i can't understand the action management explanation when you are at lv.6
So he said that summon shadow blade like a bonus action then attack and then booming blade?
at lv.6 a Rogue has 1 action and 1 bonus action, so he can't cast booming blade assuming he has already attacked normally with the sneak attack.
So i Assume he casts shadow blade before the initiative start, so che can have a new round to do all that stuff.
But Someone can explain me how he does 10d8? i think he does 9d8 because booming blade says if the target moves willingly moves 5 feet or more, he takes 1d8, but can't count it like crit.
minute: 19:40
but duelling pally fighting style doesn't work anymore because of Tasha if we want to cast booming blade or GFB right ?
Right - this came out before Tasha's :).
@@DnDDeepDive yeah that’s to be sure about pally too cause you didn’t mention it in your update but I guess it’s because it’s not a really big deal
A bounty was just placed on my kenku Rogue assassin lvl 9... digging for tips and tricks. 😂❤❤
Father of all min-maxers 🙏🤴🏼
Hey Colby, any chance of creating a Ranged Rogue build? If you have one can someone point me to that? Love the content sir, keep it up.
Thanks! I'll put it on the list - would thrown weapons count or are you looking for true ranged weapons only?
Edit to say, even though it's called the Infiltrator, this one was sort of meant to function as the party's rogue... czcams.com/video/7L_nbyrgr1A/video.html
20:30 - you only get Sneak attack for one of the attack, not both
Yup. We're doubling it because it's a crit :).
What is the reason why u dont put in the 2 Paladin lvl befor u Start with sorcerer?
And here i would go into shadow sorcerer for the darkness spell where only u can See through
Iam looking forward to See a nice Video about a full supp char.
I tried it with a yuanti Divination wizzzard 2, lore bard.
With the inspiring leader feat. So i can use omen, Inspiration and have a great big spell list with battlefield control spells
Because I want to get Shadow Blade asap, not to mention Quickened Spell for Booming Blade and more spell slots. I've done a full support character - check episode 15!
Highly, highly, situational; But... couple with party member who is Cleric: Grave Domain , And they go right before this character, and enemy hasn't acted this round, Cleric = Path to the Grave, then this character hits with that surprise/sneak attack... 😏
not situational. this can be done by a character all by himself at tier 2. i have played a couple of builds that's grave cleric + assassin + 3rd class (i had a divine soul and a battlemaster). great burst dmg and as long as your party buys into the ambush approach (no one uses heavy armor, everyone gets stealth or at least lets you scout ahead solo) and you don't have an anti-surprise DM then surprise is doable for 50-75% of the combats.
I've never played one, but a sustained damage build sounds like it might not be that interesting to play, as it seems like you have one optimal thing to do with your resouces and few choices to make other than who to attack. At least with burst damage you have to decide when to use your resources, and that can keep me engaged.
I think it all depends on the player - some of us just love to hit really hard every round :P. But yes, having options of things to do can definitely add a layer of interesting (which is why I think I love the Bladesinger so much...)
I personally prefer burst as well as it has higher potential to remove a target off the board as well early. And imo burst doesnt mean the sustained dmg after the burst is terrible.
I'd do your build but the dm doesnt like multiclassing that doesnt make since for the char
Time to get creative with your backstory! lol
I'd ask your DM to work with you to come up with some great ideas to multi-class. Say you want to try a specific build and you want to work it into the story. I'm sure a DM would be more than happy to have an opportunity to work with you on story beats.
An assassin for the church that has magic in his bloodline that the church specifically was looking for to create a powerful weapon against evil. You’re welcome!
Why is the love-child of The Deep & Homelander giving me D&D advice
Because I want to show the world that, deep down, I'm really a nice guy?
I’m playing as a mimic assassin rouge in our next campaign.
Love all your videos (and the podcast while I'm on-the-go)! I'd like to add an FYI for those like me who are planning a low-level campaign. A Variant Human Assassin with 16 Dex and Dual Wielder Feat armed with 2 Rapiers is the highest average nova damage at Level 3 (33.6 vs 10AC, 27.9 vs 15AC). Then immediately adding 2 levels of Paladin gets you the highest average nova damage I've yet been able to theorycraft at Level 5 (69.4 vs 10AC, 59.6 vs 15AC). Of course you have only two spell slots at Level 5. Whether you go Warlock or Sorcerer next is up to personal preference and length of campaign. I personally like Warlock for getting 2 fresh new spell slots every Short Rest.
I also found a fun variation for your Assasserer Build to help it dominate in battlefield control: take the Spell Sniper feat, and armed with a Whip, you can Booming Blade + Divine Smite TWO DIFFERENT TARGETS FROM 10 FEET AWAY, plus Sneak Attack damage to one of them (spending just 1 Sorcery Point to Twin Booming Blade, or 2 Sorcery Points to Quicken it and deal all this damage to ONE target). AND they'll have to suffer extra lightning damage if they want to melee attack you back without reach weapons. Add the Sentinel Feat, and you significantly increase the number of times you can Sneak Attack + Divine Smite on THEIR turns, too. Wield a Whip and Rapier together, and you have more options for attacks, plus 2 threat radiuses for Opportunity Attacks, so it's much harder for them to run past you. Or Whip and Shield together, and you're a pretty legit tank. Lastly, play Shadow Sorcerer, and with Darkness cast, you're a Sneak Attack MACHINE. So much versatility!!
Thanks for the compliment *and* for the ideas - love them! I wonder... with Spell Sniper and a whip + Booming blade, couldn't you make the argument that your booming blade attack would have a range of 20ft? 10ft normally, doubled for Spell Sniper? Perhaps the DM might rule that the "make a melee attack" bit of Booming Blade trumps the "range is doubled" of spell sniper, but I could see the argument going either way...
@@DnDDeepDive Thanks for the reply! Ah, well, the reason why you need Spell Sniper in the first place is because both Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade specify "5 Foot Range" in the spell description, hence why you need to double it before using a reach weapon to full potential at all (the game designers probably figured out early on that Booming Blade with automatic Reach is probably too strong of a cantrip). Technically, a Sorcerer could do it without the feat, and just use Distant Spell every time, but that would eat up sorcery points.
What if you combined shadow blade and spiritual weapon? You'd essentially be dual wielding two spells and only one costs concentration.
Can you do a couple of builds only for level 1-6?
Most of the campains are played at those levels (but maybe I’m wrong 🥲)
Well, the vast majority of my builds are made to come online as early as possible - my intent has always been to create characters that are strong throughout and not just at level 20 :). There are a couple of exceptions to that rule, but one good way to find a character that's maybe especially powerful by level 6 is to check the comparison spreadsheets I put in the video descriptions and find one you like!
based on a poll from dnd beyond, most campaign gameplay happens at tier 2 (level 6-10). you're almost right though. next on the list is tier 1 (levels 1-5). then tier 3 then its very rare for tables to play tier 4.
@@DnDDeepDive it’s so funny that you answer this question. I didnt expect that 💪🏼
Does a Bugbear Rogue get 2 ambush bonuses when he surprises someone and takes 2 attacks?
I think they just get to add 2d6 to one of their attacks: "You can use this trait only once per combat."
@@DnDDeepDive Still ambiguous, thoug hit does state you can add the damage to "the" attack which I supposed indicates singular.
Why not start this with 5 gloomstalker to pick up multi attack (at the same time as other party members) and elven accuracy. Before everything else?
I think I just really wanted to be a rogue :). Plus the burst damage on a surprised target was a bit higher with Shadow Blade, Auto-crits, and sneak damage.
Honestly I'm surprised you didnt go the rogue gloomstalker with crossbow expert and sharpshooter. You get 4 attacks on first shot and 3 each round after. Then if you really want you can either go 3 lvl fighter or just keep going rogue rest of way. Cause as you said flat damage each shot is better than rolling double dice.
Right - if I were going for sustained damage there are definitely some things I'd tweak. Here I was really trying to explore the biggest numbers I could get in a single round. I'm assuming you watched episode 2 already where I go into Sharpshooter/Xbow expert?
Also - I think taking a fighter dip is definitely viable here and, in fact, encouraged. I'm tempted to make an addendum to say "give up a level of sorcerer so you can get Action Surge" since we're focused pretty exclusively on one big turn.
Yeah agreed. Thanks for the response. I'm making a damage char just not sure which way I want to go. Burst or sustained
@@DnDDeepDive will say if you add fighter you could go echo knight for another free attack once in a while plus a chance to use reaction aoo with your echo
@@jonathanmorphew6786 yeah - like your DM I kinda hate multiclassing so much (that would be 5! lol!) but... for our purposes the numbers must dictate!
I think you can't cast Booming Blade with Shadow blade cause you need a melee weapon worth at least 1 sp as component for Booming Blade... So that's a problem. But cool concept anyway.
How about a set of races you normally don't play? Goliaths? Kobolds? Goblins? Halflings? Etc.
I know several professional athletes interested in a Jocks Machina style fundraiser. Love to chat...
Colby, I fear you're misunderstanding something about Surprise. I get that it's very common to have different understandings about Surprise, and that you get that too, because you said to talk with your DM first. But RAW is RAW, so let's take a look.
"If you're surprised, you can't move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can't take a reaction until that turn ends."
So Surprised disappears at the end of "that turn." It does NOT go away at the end of the round, where a round is the sum of one turn for each combat participant. Which turn? The previously mentioned "your first turn of the combat," the one where you can't move or take actions. Who is "you" here? The Surprised creature ("if you're Surprised").
So as soon as combat begins, all participants roll Initiative. If the Surprised creature goes before the Assassin in Initiative order, then by the time it's the Assassin's first turn of the combat, that creature is no longer Surprised. No automatic critical conversion against that creature. The Assassin still has Advantage on all Attacks for the round - the creature hasn't taken an action yet, and the Assassin class feature specifically grants it - but that creature has access to Reactions if the Surprise is gone already. They might have quick enough reflexes to toss up a Shield spell at the last second, if so prepared.
By the way, this is what is meant by RAW "A member of a group can be surprised even if the other members aren't." Surprise falls off in Initiative order, so some will lose it before others do.
Because of this, Initiative is critical (pun intended) for an Assassin. A multiclass into Gloom Stalker makes even more sense, due to the Wisdom Initiative class feature, and the Alert feat becomes very appealing to Assassins. Because getting the most out of your "nova round" depends entirely on an Initiative contest, and if you lose that contest, there goes half of your damage from dice.
Can we get an optimized Healer build? None of the titles indicate to me that you have done that yet.
I've only done a couple of supports. One here: czcams.com/video/9jWvUvfLgSo/video.html and another here as part of a Team build: czcams.com/video/w-haeMbseQ4/video.html
Did I miss the part where you explain how you get Surprise to proc the Crit?
Surprise in 5e is a debatably difficult condition to acquire, unless you are suitably alone.
Nope you didn’t - you’d have to get surprise the same way anyone does. Through stealth, luck, a willing DM and a willing party. It’s the greatest weakness of the build and the reason it’s so unreliable. But when you can pull it off...
Surprise is easy with gloomstalkers as long as your party hangs back or goes invisible as well.
@@TheRobversion1 right, so "debatably difficult"
@@genxmonk70 hmm... personally at our table we haven't found it difficult because our DM plays it very RAW regardless of whether he feels surprises gives the players too much of an advantage. my guess is it's difficult at your table and at others is because more DMs are house-ruling it not too occur or making it too difficult to happen because they don't want make encounters easier for the party or adjust the difficulty of the encounter to account for the possibility of surprise/stealth.
Surprise condition at start of combat is simply generated when one creature (not necessarily one side) is unaware of the other starting combat. A whole side can be wholly surprised or maybe just a few of them are surprised. To make a side or creature unaware of the start of a combat, it just means you are undetectabe which means:
1. you started the battle invisible (easy for gloomstalkers in darkness as they have auto-invisibility in darkness).
2. you approach and see the enemy while stealthed and have actual hiding places (you aren't in plain view) or illusions to hide in.
In both cases, the ambushing side rolls stealth the ambushed side rolls perception. Those who are ambushed that beats the lowest stealth roll of the ambushing side ARENT surprised. Those who don't beat it get the surprised condition until they end their 1st turn.
This is also why if you are a gloomstalker you ask your party to hang back so their lower stealth rolls don't bring down your party stealth DC for your opponents to oppose with perception. Once the 1st round is over, then your ambusher can call back to the party members hanging back or go back to where the rest of the party is and those who hung back can roll initiative and join the ongoing fight.
Of course if all the party members are good with stealth (hello pass without trace) and with adequate hiding spots in the environment or all have ways to turn invisible then everyone can join in the ambush.
@@TheRobversion1 I understand how surprise works. The part that makes it difficult to reliably/consistently count on is the Party. That is 3, 4, or 5 other players that need to be undetected.
So if enemy detects sound or sees motion from one member, your surprise is done. Now I'm not sure how your adventures go, but in my experience we rarely encounter bands of enemies that are just oblivious to their surroundings and I've almost never had a party where at least one person was incapable of following a plan.
How you gonna role play a rogue becoming a paladin?
If you want to assassinate just go full rogue assassin. The only thing you have to decide what fits your campaign more. Dex based assassin or a charisma based one.
I made something like this with 2 lvls of fighter and grave clerc. 😅
Is the enemy still surprised, when you attacked once?
“If you're surprised, you can't move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can't take a reaction until that turn ends.” Looks like it lasts until the end of your first turn.
Unfortunately they recently erated those 2 cantrips to the wpn must have a cost of at least 1sp. No more using them with shadow blade.
Have an old pc that did that. Hard to play him now.
Your dm actually made you errata the effectiveness of your character?
@@Mr911superstar dm didn't errata. It is in the errata that recently came out after Tashas book came out.
I would actually call this the Elminster build lol
U can't booming blade on shadowblade unless this was made before they changed the rules
can you do a war Druid
I'd love to - would you mind sharing with me a few basic details of what you'd like to see in the build?
@@DnDDeepDive yes can we talk over discord
@@TheQueen-qk2ul would email work? dndoptimized@gmail.com
@@DnDDeepDive yes
I don't understand where you get your damage numbers from. Take your level six damage report; you are doing 4d8 + 4d6 + 2 = 34 points with your first attack and 2d6 + 2d8 +2= 18 for your second. That comes out to 52 hit points, before considering the target's AC. You showed Damage Report! Vs 10 AC: 64, Vs 15: 55. This is obviously wrong, unless I am missing something. Please respond!
Not sure if he works with .5 or rounds up and works with 5 as average for a d8 and 4 for a d6.
Also you mixed the numbers a little:
First hit: 4d6 Sneak + 4d8 + 3 SB + 2.
Second hit: 2d8 BB + 4d8 + 3 SB + 2.
But this doesnt work anyway with Tashas as you cant BB with SB.
First... suprise is very difficult to achieve. easier to do with pass without trace. so make sure you have a handy druid amonst your numbers. the idea is good but dont worry about suprise.. be more concerned with going first and getting advantage for free.
The chance for all four attacks against the terrasque to hit is about 27 percent
For all four to hit, sure, but the average damage probability stands.
I wonder how I could Roleplay a rogue who turns sorcerer who turns paladin who turns ranger. Won’t stop me!
Assasserer, not the half asser, the double asser!
i love your concepts and the questions you try to answer and there's so much great information I just wish you talked faster sp the videos weren't so long
Pop a Bonus Action Grave Cleric Path to the Grave and boom they have vulnerability to all of your damage on one attack to stack with the crit, at the cost of 2 levels diverted to Cleric. Or just get a party member to do it (or even Contagion Flesh Rot in advance albeit that's probably resisted by worthy foes and easy to remove for the rest).
d4: D&D Deep Dive this makes me Confused? You can only smite once per turn as smite requires a bonus action and you only get 1 bonus action per round.
I am confused about so many things in this video.
Attack Actions VS Spell Attack Actions
Extra Attack does not trigger on Spell Attacks, only Attack Actions. Attack Actions are distinct from Cast Spell Actions. Attack Actions only work with melee or ranged weapon attacks or unarmed strikes. When a Spell is cast, the main action becomes a Cast a Spell action.
The Attack action allows the player to make an attack with a weapon or unarmed strike, but not all attacks require that the player actually take the attack action.
Spells such as Firebolt use the Cast a Spell action. The Ready action can be used to ready an attack but is a distinct action from the Attack action altogether.
In short, all Attack actions are attacks, but not all attacks are Attack actions. Extra Attack can only trigger on an Attack action. Regardless of what spell is cast, it cannot trigger on a Cast a Spell action because “Cast a Spell” is not an Attack action.
Therefore, you cannot combine the shadow blade + quicken blade + extra attacks. Right? You have to either choose to use the shadowblade and quicken blade OR the gloom stalker's 2 extra attacks at level 5, but you can't do both.
It’s been a long time since this one, but yes, if I suggested using Booming Blade as an action it wouldn’t work. You could Quicken Booming Blade as a BA and then take the attack action with your shadows blade and be fine, of course, qualifying for all of your extra attack/gloomstalker benefits. I think that’s what I intended, but can’t remember if I misspoke.
Kinda thinking you missed an opportunity. Should have called this build a sorassin! Go against and your screwed!
lol!
if people don't get the how much over kill it is at level 20 the damage you deal can kill 1 and 90% of and adult red dragon, and it is a 19 AC monster the 2nd dragon stays alive with 93 hp if you do the average 419 damage, if you lucky you can make it 0 this is very much over kill.
You look like Homelander and the Deep had a child. Don't take this In a bad way BTW u look good 😁
Minor, but I don't believe you can use an off hand attack when using rapier as primary, as a rapier isn't a light weapon. 👌
We should note that Quickened Spell and Subtle Spell can *not* be used together on any spell, so ... if you use Quickened Spell on Booming Blade, you're going to spoil surprise (no automatic criticals if your DM is rational and doesn't want to allow one damage dealer to dominate the game), and if you use Subtle Spell on it, you're only going to get one attack.
I've seen this build with Gloom Stalker before. Personally I prefer to optimize for max damage in 1 hit rather than one round. With magic items I was able to calculate up to 504 damage in 1 hit. I prefer this build simply for the simplicity. You drop a bucket of dice in front of your DM and laugh in chaotic evil as the thing dies. And your turn doesn't take 8 years to execute.
Here's the google doc if you're interested: docs.google.com/document/d/1feduvKYNRGw3j5SGh8TCZshKq3zEYrz56KkEjAEyXYs/edit?usp=sharing
dude.... my dm just would give up or not allow that many multiclasses.... just give up cause your boss is gonna drop round one lol
Have you seen treemonk’s presentation of “shadow blade assassin”? Lvl 20 nova round 591 damage as AVERAGE, if everything hits. 1023 max damage.
Here is a link to it: czcams.com/video/5eJDWG0UlsM/video.html
I just realized: I don’t think treemonk factored in armor class or chance to hit to his damage average.
Me: I plan on building a 4 class dps munchkin
DM: Not at my table
😢 Maybe he just doesn’t like even numbers. Tell him you’ll add to levels of Fighter and make it 5.
@@DnDDeepDive 😄
My games are pretty heavy on rp. So multi-classing needs reasoning for the most part.
Such a no-fun dm then.
@@genxmonk70 one of the most limiting mindsets in dnd.
@@TheRobversion1 I play with mostly rp focused groups. It's pretty challenging to come up with how your Paladin became a Rogue for a little bit, then sold his soul to a Fiend while attending Bard School.
Email sent.
Dude all I can hear is you sucking/clicking your tongue on the back of your teeth. Lots of info tho.
Yeah these early videos were pretty bad from an editing/professionalism perspective. Feel free to skip along to the later catalogue where I mostly curb that :).
@@DnDDeepDive for sure. Still got a sub.
Cheers! @@mrbill_oh_no
this is a bad idea.
you probably shouldn't encourage this behavior.
nothing against you but yea, your going to get MANY comments like mine because over-optimization can ruin the game.
If you wanna run with this theme, show how to make unorthodox builds. give some tips on playing a Gish (martial/arcane) or what to do with the Arcane Trickster like if its a good idea to pick up a level of Fighter or Wizard early on.
you could also show how to do things like build a necromancer or geomancer, things that are hard to do well in 5e which used to be really cool in 3.5
Dood. Optimizing is fun. Theory craft is fun. If you don't like it, don't do it. But don't try to yell others what they should and should not do.
It's kind of dickish.
Its not Dickish, its a warning followed by a suggestion.
When you have a player watching videos and reading guides to minmax a rogue in D&D5e, that player is going to be way too invested in his sheet and not in the character that sheet is meant to detail.
Like I suggested, the concept of a video going into detail about building a character is fine but rather than focus on max dps or getting THE MOST defence, focus on niche ideas that ppl may not know how to do.
What if everybody does it?
@@ninjabluefyre3815 then they do. What's the problem. Most ppl just like talking about the theory. Very few play characters this way because the sacrifice of skills and abilities makes them boring in anything but combat.
@@Felix.Fictus sorry man it still sounds like you're just being bossy.
This kind of theory craft is a creative outlet and is fun to do for some. If people try to play a campaign with such a one sided character they will soon learn that lack of skills and abilities makes for a boring character. Even combat is lame with only one trick after a while..
But the discussion of the mechanics is fun and interesting and when broken down small pieces can be used to help some characters.
If you don't like the flavour then don't watch. If you have suggestions feel free to share them.
But watch your tone and avoid trying to tell ppl what not to do.
My 2 cents.