Christianity Debate
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- čas přidán 2. 07. 2010
- With the flourish, in recent years, of popular and widely accessible debates on this subject, the arguments coming from the theistic side have very quickly become predictable, stale, old, and even less convincing than they may have been the first time they were used.
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This debate has to change. Theists - when all of your arguments have been debunked, and you keep spouting them anyway, congratulations - you're not convincing anyone except the credulous and weak minded. Are you proud of that?
I've often thought of opening up a second channel on youtube, on which I could engage in some debates with other users, but every time I ponder the idea I realise that 90% of the time I'd just be bringing people up to speed on what has already been answered a million times in the past. Screw that.
The way I see it, this debate ended a few decades ago. Everything that had been brought to the table then is what we're still seeing being brought to the table now. What we "new" or "affirmative" atheists are doing is trying to knock some nails into the coffin so that this whole thing can be put to rest in what Sam Harris so eloquently calls "the vast graveyard of mythology".
Theists - you simply must educate yourself before you go opening your mouth about all these tired old topics. Evolution. 20th century killers. The U.S. constitution. Atheism and atheists, and what it actually is that they DON'T believe. When you spout them- you get knocked down by the sheer force of facts. When you spout them and then get corrected and shown convincingly that your argument is in fact false, --- and then spout them again - I'm lost for words. Where is the virtue in that? Where? How can you be proud of that? How can you support others whom you see doing that?
I just simply, truly, and sincerely don't understand why christian theists aren't red with embarrassment that in these debates, their side so constantly and obviously relies on misinformation, falsehood and ignorance. How many times does one need to be told that 2 + 2 = 4 before they will stop insisting that it = 7?
I. Just. Do. Not. Understand. This. Situation.
Why. WHY!?!?!?
Of course not all christians are like this. And not even all of the christians who engage in debate are like this. To those sensible christians, I have this to say:
Why not join us in criticizing intellectual dishonesty like this even when it comes from your side? People who knowingly proclaim falsehoods from the podium (or pulpit) are not doing your side any favors in regards to spreading your message or enhancing your side's credibility (which is, you might have noticed, in crisis). People who do it are a liability to you.
One commenter suggested that I should have revealed at the end of the video that the moderator was in fact a christian, concerned with honesty and veracity. I wish I had included that. It would have made the video a hundred times better, but alas - 'tis too late.
'Tis not too late for you, though. Please join us, for everyone's sake, in insisting that debates like this come to be characterized by honesty and intellectual integrity. In what other field of human endeavor or discourse does willful ignorance take center stage so consistently?
And for fuck's sake, right-wing lunatics - get over this paranoia about socialism. And perhaps educate yourself even slightly about what socialism is and means. If you do, you might find that it has not very much at all to do with Democrats and Barack Obama - - - certainly not as much to do with THEM as it has to do with Jesus Christ.
Right-wing paranoia over socialism is an insult to the memory of the people who died in actual socialist societies due to actual socialist policies.
______________________________________________
Positive vibes for the mighty Christopher Hitchens, who this week announced that he has esophageal cancer.
We need your esophagus, Mr. Hitchens, and the rest of you, so good luck with the chemotherapy (what can one say?) and get well soon.
Some people have already kindly pointed out that this is not my best movie to date. No shit, Sherlock. :)
Clear skies, everyone.
NSC
You question the existence of Darth Vader? I find your lack of faith disturbing.
Nice
Hilarious!
It's the dark side of force tempting him to not believe.
Vader isn't real? no no.. thats not true, thats impossible! NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
You have to have faith in the force.
"Not playing football is a sport." I never realized how athletic I was.
I'm a pro with a lifetime of experience
Is not having sex a sex life?
Same here...
And now I feel even more embarrassed about losing so many BYEs as a kid and teen.
Yes...you should try not jogging. Its an outstanding cardiovascular workout.
@@cookiecutter6735 "Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sex position." - Bill Maher 🤣
If atheism is a religion, then not-collecting-stamps is a hobby. LOL now I get why your channel name is NonStampCollector. Feel so stupid haha.
Erik Kartman
Atheism is not RELIGIOUS, but it requires FAITH in that there is not god. Obviously they have nothing to do with each other tho so idk why im commenting
e_FIFA do you need FAITH to not believe that a magical invisible unicorn is watching you right now?
You don't need FAITH to reject claims that require FAITH.
+Henry Esparza look up the definition of atheism. It's a lack of an assertion/belief, not the assertion/belief that another assertion/belief is false.
The inability of science to disprove the deistic God does not in anyway mean that we are unable to disprove any theistic God.
I admit that we cannot disprove deism, in that if you postulate the existence of something that cannot be observed, we cannot disprove it.
But if you postulate the existence of a theist God, ascribe it attributes that could be internally contradictory, then we can disprove it.
And if you postulate the existence of something and ascribe it attributes that are falsifiable, then we can disprove it.
Like if you said that you had a brother, I have n idea who you are, I can't disprove it, but if you said you had a married bachelor for a brother, or if you said that you had a twenty foot tall brother, then I can disprove it easily.
In neither case do I need faith not to believe, I just need simple reasoning skills and empirical evidence.
This video is nearly 10 years old and the theist argument is still the same.
What else can they do? It's carved in stone. ; )
@Sr. ThermiX
Three. ; )
czcams.com/video/8YX-gqRdK_8/video.html
Scary True. It is why the stereotype of angry atheist exist. You can only here people confidently present an argument that has been refuted 1000 times so much, before you get jaded. You have people with degrees in a philosophy presenting their version of kalam cosmological argument with utter confidence it drives me nuts.
They've been the same for the past 2,000 years.
The more things change the more they stay the same, eh?
It's funny because this video will still be wholly relevant in 100 years.
Actually it probably won't be.
you mean *holy* relevant?
If people can even understand the language lol
That sounds really sad to me.
Isaiah Phillip god I hope you are wrong... but i know you aren't... religion seems like a tough horse to kill
OHHHH! THAT'S why his name is NonStampCollecter!
lol...
and now i understand
please explain
Stephen Waldron To say atheism is a religion is the same as saying not collecting stamps is a hobby.
ooooohhhhhhhh thx
5:19
Girl: I like athletic guys
Me: *tries to impress her* I don't play football
J A ED It makes sense to the 640 people that liked this comment
😂😂😂😂😂🙌🏽
Wow that's really impressive
@@RoccoArgubright 1.1k. Grats!
Or rather “I play not football”
My family is Muslim but I’m an atheist. They were having a conversation about atheists and my sister said that atheists are stupid because they “try to disprove god when they can’t” I cringed so hard and the worst part is how she brings up hell so casually as if anyone deserves to be punished so disgustingly for eternity. They don’t know my beliefs but my family made me despise religion. Im almost traumatised that I was ever religious and I almost feel ashamed but luckily I was smart enough to realise how ridiculous it was. Despite what they “teach” me, I still love Jews, atheists, homosexuals and ect. The thought of billions of people being brainwashed is just scary to me and I hope religion would one day just disappear off the face of the earth.
Where are...I feel the same. I had doubts growing up, but different things made me conform. It turned out a disaster. "Christian". I have few relationships with family and I can't be honest. I avoid the topic.
My family follows Christianity. And even though I love them very much, I just can't continue following their faith as I don't believe in its teachings anymore. But I can't tell them this because I'm afraid it would destroy our relationship. So yeah, I understand you buddy. I'm also hoping that one day, everyone would try questioning or doubting what's being told to them as the "absolute truth".
I'm from an Islamic family too and look how it turned out
they don't know that I'm an atheist and their firat solution to any problem is praying
Thank you for being brave and compassionate and for thinking for yourself, regardless of what you decide makes sense to you!
i feel exactly the same. they claim without this religion there is no way of knowing what is right which is just wrong?
even if i had no one to learn from its very easy to see the cause and effect of my actions and therefore i can find what the right thing to do is? ive been given the faculty to reason and therefore can figure out on my own what is right and wrong? and your point about how so much people being burnt in hell for eternity was also something i brought up to them and they just said. "yeah dont be a hero" its annoying.
"We'd all be socialist or something..."
*panicked scream*
techn0vids Debatable. Neither is either right, nor wrong. Both have their pros and cons, and some of the most prosperous and peaceful countries have socialist aspects included within their capitalist society. I believe that a well-rounded (not PERFECT, because that is impossible) government includes a healthy inclusion of both.
im a socialist ^^
uhm no
mao was a mass murderer, however that's besides the point, as the joke was that regardless of whether or not socialism is good (which it, by its most basic definition, morally is), americans will always run away in fear from whatever it is it has to offer, product from the cold war, and other mindless confrontations.
socialism =/= communism
Watching this I coundn't stop thinking about what a horrible disease anorexia is.
Technically that’s not an apt analogy to atheism being a religion, because anorexia actually is a mental disease and atheism is not a religion :)
@@katyungodly I think it's because they're stick figures...
@Rosencrantz I would say r/itswooooshwith4os
... but im not even on Reddit
@Rosencrantz I would say r/21charactersandnomore ... but im not even on reddit
I won’t see the stick figures the same ever again
I am very offended about the remark that you've made about not playing football being a sport. I've been the reining champion of non-football for my literal entire life, and I will not let people like you make all of my hard work go to waste!
Dead GamEr here, you have my house, computer, Money and dog.
I used to not play football back in high school. I was pretty good at not playing it back in my younger years.
Today, I'm about 30 years older, and out of shape, but I still occasionally don't play football (when time allows), and I find I still enjoy not playing.
XD i wish i could say the same but I've been forced to play flag football before
That wasn't the point. The point was to prove that not doing something is not still doing something... essentially arguing against: "Doing nothing is doing something."
@@novastar6112 Woooosh man. The OP completely understood what you said.
I remember seeing this when I was a Christian. I wasn’t a creationist but I was still upset that my fundamental beliefs were attacked. Now I am glad that I was deprogrammed and can enjoy this video.
Okay I'm a Christian let's get that out of the way first and also this is my assumption i'm not saying this is a fact or if there is some other way God created The universe but here i go though. Now let's first debunk the big bang theory. If there truly was a big bang then why are the planets perfectly aligned why aren't they out of order where the sun would of happened to be too close to the earth or too far and also no other planet has any human life on it or anything that seems similar whatsoever hmm and also why is the earth the only planet with vegetation water and a atmosphere and why are humans so unique to animals we do have a choice we do have smarter brains we do have dominion and control over animals. Next point God created the universe and us in his image already in heaven we as humans rebelled against him and chose satan's side. Now after doing this mass betrayal we all found ourselves sorry for it then we had to be sent to earth to make a decision to get back there again so that we can have a second chance for our mistake we made in Heaven just so we couldn't ask hey where was my second chance. This already happened and everyone including you and me are now making choices. Where we will spend eternity has already been decided before the world was even created We have no free will but then again we do though in a way. Just like how i could right now say that you would hear me say this and still be so stubborn as to not even understand what i'm saying that you would be mad and argue with me on my point i'm making. By doing this at this exact moment in time you are choosing to disobey God and his only begotten son Jesus who died on the cross for your sins and thus therefore render you no salvation. To say that what i said right now is of no free Will Is not the matter. I could say this to hundreds of thousands of people and they could either hear me out and listen or be totally ignorant towhat I am saying. The earth wasn't created by chance humans weren't created by chance to have desires at certain ages happen at the same time for both genders ages between 13 to 14 years old. Humans have free will but God already knows what we are going to do with that free will. We might squander it by murdering someone or we can help someone. We make the right or wrong choice every second we live but God already knows that we would make that exact choice we made. God already knows each of our souls destination when we die now it's up to you to make the next move. Are you going to be a Christian and accept that Jesus died on the cross for your sins or not. remember now you do have a choice and freewill but it's up to you God already knows your destiny in the end whether you like it or not.
@@Master_Conner no I'm not a bot but no one seems to be able to answer my theory on someone's willful rejection of the Bible and it's truth though. If you say that it is a part of his plan for you to be an atheist then that's exactly my Point You are agreeing with me. My point is you already made that choice In Heaven before lucifer's fall. that's why you down here so that you don't have an excuse for a second chance because you are currently messing it up right now.
@@Master_Conner no i'm just stating that the galaxies and the universe were created with intent not randomness. It has water and skylight and a atmosphere. Humans have morals and code of conducts they go by and apes and primates don't. As i said before there was a great rebellion in Heaven in which where satan fell and humans rebelled against God our souls will be judged after we die where to spend eternity.
@@Master_Conner and I would like to show my appreciation to God and Jesus. Not some jokingly weird artwork that people can hysterically laugh At with no clear mindset whatsoever how foolish.
@@Master_Conner hassle if I hear someone give a word against my religion i'm always going to speak out.
A real debate with these rules would be awesome. Best hypothetical debate ever.
And they'd just break all the rules and then demand to be told WHAT rules they'd broken, and cry it's persecution and then loudly assert that they had just WON -- because -- they have faith that they won. And Reasons. And the other side is going to hell anyway.
As it's been said, don't play chess with a pigeon. It'll knock over all the pieces and shit on the board.
"hypothetical" This wasn't hypothetical yet at all, this is just setting the standard ground rules with everything we already know.
I’d pay good money to watch a bunch of religious people just sitting there staring at each other and exchanging confused, panicked whispers as they desperately try to come up with an argument that follows these rules.
@@saltedbuttercups "oh no... We can't use our cheap tricks. How are we suposed to win this?"
@@jilliansmith7123 im keeping that one
Man 1 and Man 2 are walking through the woods.
Before they left to walk through the woods, Man 1 pulled out a telescope, and peered over the treetops, and saw the tower he is heading to in the distance. He looked across the woods in all directions, and took out a blank piece of paper, and sketched out the outline of the woods, and the location of the tower on the other side, as well as the point at which he was currently at.
Man 1 then proceeded to pull out a very hyper-sensitive metal detector, for he knows that there could be bear-traps in the woods, and he doesn't want to step on them. Using such a device, he can accurately mark on his sketching of the woods where the device piked up metal.
It might not be perfect, but it is better than nothing after all, and he knows this.
After that, Man 1 then checks the sun, and with his watch figures out how much time is left in the day, and begins marking spots on his sketch where he would be able to travel, and where he would have to camp for the night.
Then he sighs, because sadly he doesn't have the equipment to test the weather, so he doesn't know if it'll rain before he gets to the tower.
After all of this preparation, Man 1 sets out into the woods.
Meanwhile, Man 2 had prepared by taking with him a 1000 year old map of the forest, confident in the surprising detail of the woods the map has of the woods 1000 years ago. He believes that this map is all he needs to jump into the woods and find he tower.
Once in the woods, the trees are thick, and they block their view.
Man 1 uses a compass to keep his path, as well as a pedometer to tell how far he has traveled. This way he shouldn't lose his spot on his crudely sketched map no matter where he ends up.
Man 2 just tries to follow the lines of 1000 year old trails through the woods faithfully, but unsure as the trails had overgrown and aren't really visible anymore... and sometimes he stops and double checks his surroundings. He knows there are bear-traps out here as well, but doesn't have any idea where, and the fear of stepping in one makes him very paranoid.
Eventually Man 1 and Man 2 meet each other in the woods. Man 1 greets the weary looking traveler that is Man 2. Man 2 politely greets Man 1, and asks if he intends to travel to the tower as well. Man 1 says he is in fact. Man 2 then happily suggests that Man 1 follow him, as he has the 1000 year old map of the woods that will surely take them to the tower. Man 1 considers this, but notices that Man 2 intends to take them off the path that Man 1 had sketched into his own crude map.
After pointing this out, Man 2 scoffs, and asks him who mad his map. Man 1 explains how he had come to draw out the map himself, and Man 2 smirks again, and explains that his map was created by the very founders of the land, and how it is better than any map he could create now since he knows nothing of the lands founding. Man 1 is bewildered by this statement, and decides to just continue on towards the tower, suggesting that Man 2 follow him instead if he wants.
Man 2 then stops the man, and insists that surely Man 1 must follow him, or Man 1 will undoubtedly wander off the right path and step in a bear-trap. Man 1 disagrees, and continues on.
Man 2 is worried for Man 1, and continues following him, arguing that eventually they'll be lost and step into a bear trap, because Man 1 cannot prove that his devices will always work anyway, and because he can never know for sure, and who would know better than the men who founded the land? Man 1 ponders these arguments, and simply states that the woods have changed, and the things on the map are no longer accurate, and Man 2 claims this isn't true, the the path is still there even if overgrown. Man 1 then comments on how accurately one could follow such a path if it is overgrown and looks just like any other overgrown spot in the woods. Man 2 insulted at the idea that Man 1 is saying he might be blindly wandering, and asks him to prove how accurate his devices are, if he can predict where bear-traps will be, can he predict the weather?
No, Man 1 says, I haven't yet figured out a device to predict the weather. Man 2 then states that shows how unreliable he is, and pulls out a weather calendar from 1000 years ago dating the same time as his old map. He says he has this, and that it is better than nothing. Man 1 comments on how it's still basically random chance even with that.
Man 2 asks him to explain how these devices work, if he believes them to be so accurate. Man 1 states that it's hard to explain, but provides the blue-prints to the devices to Man 2. Man 2 says that he can't explain it himself because he doesn't know, and that these blue-prints could just be lies or fakes. Man 1 just continues walking.
Through this squabbling, both men come out into a clearing in the woods. Man 2 without realizing had been piggy-backing off of Man 1's navigating this whole time, and now they stand before the tower they had been looking for... 2 hours off from the time Man 1 had predicted.
Man 2 makes sure to point out the fact that they were still 2 hours off.
Long but funny post.
This thing was fucking scary as hell when I just read it super stoned.
I'm an atheist but you look so much like a demon with a lot of holes Lmao
Great allegory; very accurate.
Why does this take place in a forest? Could it be so that you could slip in the idea that morality is ever changing like a forest without providing a good reason as to why it’s ever changing?
@Hidden because our world has changed so much. I swear you guys come up with the most ridiculous stuff just so it fits your beliefs. Just because something is old doesn’t make it irrelevant...
God is Watching Us
And so is Santa Claus.
So is yo mama
Casparus Kruger and the NSA
Scary
Casparus Kruger I guess if their funding is cut they could re-brand as a free backup service-- "We could restore your data, but then we'd have to kill you".
Casparus Kruger And the Lorax
It's so true, their is no debate. There is just religious people not accepting facts. It's like going to a teacher saying 2+2=5 because you believe and have faith that it is, so you should get that question right.
Adam Holmes , "there is not a debate". It's weird how you can't provide any facts for that statement except a school analogy
Mr. Doctor this post is more than 2 years old, let it go
Mr. Doctor Watch the video. There are your facts
Mr. Doctor
because it's been done a million times over. how many times do people have to keep shoving this into people's brains. do your own research. these videos even do it for u. y don't u try debating the content of the videos instead?
Adam Holmes it's more like 0+0=1 or what ever you want it to be.
I finally understand his channel name now
Chase M HAHA LOL yeah actually that's pretty awesome...
Chase M
8 years now
It's funny because there is no debate!
yes, that is the joke. btw I know this is a joke too. do not wooosh me
The Other Animator woooooosh
:(
This comment section is so sad
Alexa play Minecraftcito 69
`~`
5:18 Not smoking is an addiction. ;-)
bald is the worst hair color...
Yet sitting is the most comfortable sport ever.
Not smoking ruined my life. Every day I wake up with healthy lungs and I hate it. I wish I took up smoking when I was younger but its too late now. Why didn't I not smoke?
Don't not smoke kids.
Canadian Beaver lol
Exactly. That's why when you break that afdiction for even a minute, you get severe withdrawal symptoms and can't breathe
as a former religious extremist, i can honestly say that no amount of reason or facts will change a persons mind... the religious among us have such a us vs them mentality, an almost cultish mindset... honestly patience and kindness will win people over... because losing your faith is something u have to do for urself... and yes at first losing your faith will leave u lost and anxiety induced panic attacks, you may even lose your loved one... but when u have made it past your first step... its like a breath of fresh air
Well what changed your mind?
Don't tell a group of people largely composed of those who have changed their minds that it's impossible when you have done it.
You see I was the same, but the exact opposite. Please do not claim that the religious have an us vs them mentality, when many atheists are just as guilty. Their worldview is just as exclusive
Hahahahaha sucker
@@danieljaywoods9950 no, the majority of religious people are like that, the atheists have almost a non-existent minority.
@@danieljaywoods9950 In my opinion I do agree that many atheists are overly eager to belittle theists, often without fully understanding them or their beliefs. Many atheists also claim scientific facts which are actually just very well educated guesses or estimations, and then try to say that others are stupid for not believing or understanding the science or the terminology. This closes minds and rarely if ever convinces anyone against theism.
On the other hand, most theists do believe in some ridiculous fantasies that don't make a whole lot of sense. I say this not to insult anyone but because their beliefs also tend to be mutually exclusive so even they can't agree with one another between religions or even within religions. Clearly fantasies are a big part of theism. There is no proof that gods exist and it's not up to atheists to prove that they don't exist. But insulting one another or claiming that your own beliefs are obviously the only ones that could possibly be true doesn't really help on either side.
I am very thankful to religion. Look how it has enriched our comedians. An eternal source of material.
It amazes me how relevant this video is even 5.5 years later.
*7
BUT GAAAAWWWD!
@Gracen Whyte good thing you read it instead! I kid I kid
I totally agree. And I still love watching it every year.
As long as there is religion in human civilization, it will be relevant.
One thing I have noticed when I tried to debate a christian is that the other person defined key terms differently than Webster's dictionary, making it impossible to communicate or convince them of anything. They were also convinced that they could read my mind and dictate my thoughts to me when I was often thinking the opposite.
Many of them don't even know the meaning of the term Atheism. (They often think it describes someone who claims there is no god. I'm an Agnostic Atheist, but I'm happy to admit that I don't know if there is a god. I don't believe there is, but I make no claim one way or the other.) What can you say to someone who says "Atheism is a religion"? It's literally A-THEISM. It's right there in the name!
@@drewlovelyhell4892 Precisely.
@@drewlovelyhell4892 Well, technically, no. The term, "Agnostic Atheist" is an oxymoron as the terms "agnostic" and "atheist" are contradictory terms. I do, however, agree that atheism is not a religion, and I am an atheist myself.
@@altrombone1775 I'm afraid not.
Atheist and Theist are contradictory terms.
Agnostic and Gnostic are contradictory terms.
But it is not contradictory to be an Agnostic Atheist, as one term concerns belief, the other knowledge.
An Agnostic is someone who doesn't know if there is a god.
An Atheist is someone who does not believe any of the assertions made by religions that their gods exist.
I am both these things.
I don't believe in Yahweh or Zeus or Anubis.
But I accept that there may be a god/gods somewhere in the universe or beyond. But until there is proof, I will continue to say; "I don't *believe* in them, but don't *know* for sure one way or the other."
CZcams! Please recommend this video to everyone in the entire world.
Too bad youtube considers this as a thing to be demonetized.
Yeah, no
And we have a believer of an imaginary being here. Welcome believer, this reply section will show that you are without a doubt, a believer. Congratulations on showing your delusions to everyone who will read this reply section.
@Sylvester you going to try to debate or just insult me? Doesn’t surprise me one bit lol. Yep I’m the delusional one because I believe we have a creator.
Dalton Campbell If it's a debate, what kind of topics are we gonna discuss? Humans are (not) intelligent design? Humans do (not) have free will? God is (not) omnipotent/omniscient? how about the "if we don't know anything, there must've been a creator" topic?
Are you 100% sure that there is a god? Are you sure it's the god yahweh? How about allah? How about jesus, is he god? Are you 100% sure that the bible is "infallible"? Like he can't beat iron or something. If you believe that the new testament only matters (I'm referring to the parts after jesus christ), then what the fuck is the old testament for (the parts before jesus christ?
Please explain on your certainty that god exist or that the bible is true.
Note: I'm not really sure what are the old testament and new testament. Some say that the old is before christ and new is after christ, others say that it's a version of the bible. Please explain those things also. Unless if you're in a different religion.
Let's see if Ken Ham will agree to the debate rules tonight...
Tom Henry Liberty Report
He would agree and then break the rules anyway and then ask what rules he'd broken....
And then demand / assert loudly that he won the debate.
He sadly did not follow them at all.
Ken ham is just a little weird...
No he won't. Especially Kent hovid
Christians: “What a biased moderator!”
Intelligent people: “Finally, a fair moderator!”
@@Carlos-su9rr Not biased, necessarily. Just stating facts and letting things that have already been debated aside. But still slightly biased.
@@icameherejusttocomment550 not necessarily all of them are facts, a debate is a debate but any side can just say that their side has "already disproven or proven a point and it would be a waste of time to talk about it". Just write out any argument from any side at that rate
You could have gone with _"Religious People"_ instead of _"Christians"_ .
Not for nothing but they often bring the argument that we hate their God in particular, and giving fuel to that statement is not the way to go now is it?
He didnt adress evolutionist biases like how people believe if your christians you are eneducated or wicked as stated by Richard Dawkins or how creationism is culturally shunned in textbooks and schools despite no law being against that. It seems that he is actually being biased but people who agree with his argument support his rambling anyway
He's biased but it didn't matter at all for the debate it's just to stop circular arguments and boring repetitions. If the theist side would have had any arguments that aren't boring they wouldn't have left.
Yes I know this is a joke
Yes I know this doesn't mean atheists are right
Yes I know there might be more better arguments
Pls don't hurt me
If we could have this before actual debates, that would be nice. Tired of people bringing up old debates that have been done with for hundreds of years.
You can gamemode 1 in Minecraft.
Explain that atheists...
Each and everyone of us is a God and we don't even know it.
@@mstrfool I don't think I understood what you said.
@@mstrfool yes man but my comment was more of a poetic one than a logical or rational one. And yes I'm aware of the issues you mentioned.
wew
The moderator won the debate for the atheists before the debate even started, damn he's good.
That's because there is NO debate. There is no god, until PROVEN otherwise! :)
Colin Smith The moderator simply stated the obvious so it wouldnt have to be repeated, and suddenly they realized that beyond the repeatedly stated obvious there is no debate.
True.
He forgot, "Don't say, 'The Bible's just a metaphor!', or, 'You're taking that out of context!' in response to Biblical contradictions, b/s we all know that if someone said you were taking pluralism out of context or, 'It's just a metaphor!', you would rightly laugh them into social isolation!
Okay I'm a Christian let's get that out of the way first and also this is my assumption i'm not saying this is a fact or if there is some other way God created The universe but here i go though. Now let's first debunk the big bang theory. If there truly was a big bang then why are the planets perfectly aligned why aren't they out of order where the sun would of happened to be too close to the earth or too far and also no other planet has any human life on it or anything that seems similar whatsoever hmm and also why is the earth the only planet with vegetation water and a atmosphere and why are humans so unique to animals we do have a choice we do have smarter brains we do have dominion and control over animals. Next point God created the universe and us in his image already in heaven we as humans rebelled against him and chose satan's side. Now after doing this mass betrayal we all found ourselves sorry for it then we had to be sent to earth to make a decision to get back there again so that we can have a second chance for our mistake we made in Heaven just so we couldn't ask hey where was my second chance. This already happened and everyone including you and me are now making choices. Where we will spend eternity has already been decided before the world was even created We have no free will but then again we do though in a way. Just like how i could right now say that you would hear me say this and still be so stubborn as to not even understand what i'm saying that you would be mad and argue with me on my point i'm making. By doing this at this exact moment in time you are choosing to disobey God and his only begotten son Jesus who died on the cross for your sins and thus therefore render you no salvation. To say that what i said right now is of no free Will Is not the matter. I could say this to hundreds of thousands of people and they could either hear me out and listen or be totally ignorant towhat I am saying. The earth wasn't created by chance humans weren't created by chance to have desires at certain ages happen at the same time for both genders ages between 13 to 14 years old. Humans have free will but God already knows what we are going to do with that free will. We might squander it by murdering someone or we can help someone. We make the right or wrong choice every second we live but God already knows that we would make that exact choice we made. God already knows each of our souls destination when we die now it's up to you to make the next move. Are you going to be a Christian and accept that Jesus died on the cross for your sins or not. remember now you do have a choice and freewill but it's up to you God already knows your destiny in the end whether you like it or not.
I love how intellectual this man is:
"don't argue that we draw our western values from the bible because, uh, we don't"
LOL!!!!, sure, so they happen to follow most of the commandments & society frowns upon many of the things seen as bad in the bible.
Humans know from GOD, right & wrong. The bible outlined it & helped build an organised and impressive society. The western worlds dominated every other country, until we started to lose our way with GOD.
The WHOLE of western society is based on the bible, including nearly ALL our holidays.
Halloween, Christmas, Easter, All from the religion.
It is about time you wake up & smell the roses. Cos you are smelling BS in your life.
@@louispower7822 dude Halloween was a Celtic festival all it takes is a Google search and almost all basic laws (don't kill, steal, rape etc) are found all over the world even in none Christian countries turns out societies don't like murder
@@nosdivinos3774 LOL!!!!!!!!!!!! You just made my point !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!! Humans have these beliefs from GOD & we all seek to do it & have it regulated in religion. Naturally, there are those who hide from his greatness & they know they are wrong, hence they hide.
LOL!!! Thanks for showing the built-in morals that GOD gave us, LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@nosdivinos3774 LOL!!!!!!!!!!!! Are you that stupid????
Yes, Halloween was a pagan festival, it changed to a Christian holiday when the pagans took on the religion & they then named it after the departed saints, becoming a Christian festival.
You have to understand your history.
@@louispower7822
How would you explain the prevalence of these laws that western society has in societies which had not yet contacted Christianity? I guess Jesus must have travelled the entire world with his message, too. Most of the commandments? Now that's a lie, isn't it. Do tell me how many of all the commandments written in the bible are followed by secular society?
Simple basic laws necessary for cooperation and the preservation of any society are existent in ANY culture, or else said culture would be DEAD. The prevalence of Christian cultural practices is a vestige of the terrible hold it once had on western society, and as anyone can see from the current commercialization and watering down of these beliefs by media, that may not be permanent, either.
If I 7000 years before now were to have proclaimed that you should be nice to people and try your hardest not to steal, kill, or lie, would that be particularly revolutionary? No. Those rules are mandatory to prevent societal breakdown, and are good for the collective well being of society. Christians act like everybody was killing everyone else in their vicinity before the introduction of god. Funnily enough, God directly sanctions acts of barbarism in the old testament that no one would currently even consider justifiable.
Your bogus claims could be claimed by absolutely any religion that had the chance to be as influential in Western culture as Christianity did. They are all flimsy.
Oh, _that's_ why you're called NonStampCollector!
I knew it first time I saw his name. :)
@@learningsuper6785 Cool. So what?
unicockboy saying atheism is a religion is like saying not collecting stamps is a hobby
@@GlowZoe he understood it man. He was just addressing the r/humblebrag of the guy
@@GlowZoe r/wooosh
your videos are incredible.
Less incredible than gog
This one is total genius...and original!! LMFAO
Your face looks like a girl with beard thingy.
They must be credible
How dare you require debates with the religious use logic and rationality! As an atheist I demand all debates with theists be as irrational as possible! This way they will begin to understand what it feels like. By the way this is perhaps my favorite all time CZcams video. Keep up the good work!
That sounds like fun. Can you give an example or two please?
Dean Stiles Wait. If I write a book that rejects religion and god and say it was written by a non-god, does that debunk religion as a whole? Can I get offended about religious people not accepting it and call them out on discrimination?
Taste of their own medicine.. is there any debates like this?
It is amazing how relevant this is 11 years later. Not a single thing has become outdated
They survived centuries with these ancient arguments. Eleven years is sadly nothing.
there is just something about your sound design style, be it your cheerful voice, your fluid talking, your sound quality, the way you speak, the always implied sarcasm, or maybe even the lack of focus on animation that make the sound stand out more, that makes me attracted to your videos, i just keep coming back as much for the great scripts as for the sound design.
Anyways Love your work, would pledge if i could.
ahmoun0 I think if the audio was a bit louder it would be perfect, I can barely hear him with my earphones on max
That's what the debate in real life would be like. Take away the theists's nonsense and they have no arguments.
+DefiantBoris Sure. But, there are idiots on all sides. However we are not dumb enough to claim to have all the answers. That's you. We are constantly looking for answers and we are not afraid to admit we don't know something.
+DefiantBoris As a group, yes, you guys claim to have all the answers, which are all the same: "God did it/decided it/wanted it that way/etc". When I said you I meant "you religuous people" not "you individual". I should have made it clear. I apologize for that.
"Atheist" is the default position in which we come into this world. If nobody told about any religion from the moment you are born you would grow up without believing in any religion. You would be an atheist because you have no religion. I am an agnostic too. Even though I lean more towards "there is no God" it would be foolish of me to claim there is no God. I just don't believe in him because there is no evidence for his existance.
DefiantBoris Like I stated above, there are idiots on all sides. Anyone who claims to have all the answers is wrong, atheists or otherwise. And I am sorry to repeat it but, mostly religious people make that claim. This video is brilliant because it shows how the arguments of theists that susbcribe to the main way of thinking hold absolutely no water.
DefiantBoris I am afraid you are wrong about that. Sure the video is biased in favor of atheists. However you can not deny the fact that taking away all those theists pseudo arguments..... they have nothing. Not one solid, valid, logic or coherent argument.
+DefiantBoris The difference is that Athiests can claim there's no god if they want to, the burden of proof is on you to prove there is, not for us to prove there isn't. Saying there's no God is simply refuting a claim, granted we don't know for sure but given what we do know, we can make an educated guess. Theists do not have a single piece of evidence for their claims, so they really can't get upset when people question what is highly likely to be bullshit, and ask for some evidence.
Oh, if only all such debates would go this way...
Can you post the script for this, I'd like to post it in a discussion the next time I get stuck debunking all of it again.
www.nonstampcollector.com/christianity-debate.html
+NonStampCollector yo wtf I thought u were inactive
I check comments while I have breakfast a few times a week.
Thanks for the script. :)
NonStampCollector you're awesome dude! thanks for existing!
As having just left the Christian cult, of which I was a fundamentalist and was working towards being capable of defending Christianity without stumbling on inconsistencies (hence why I’m now here), I am starting on square one to understand what best we know as true, especially scientifically… I’ve never felt more humbled than I am now.
That must be seriously incredible, to realize how and why the scientific method is held in such high regard and what it has actually brought us, compared to religion that has never brought any reliable knowledge about anything to anyone. Wish you the best in learning!
@@lVideoWatcherl it has been so eye opening. You replied to my 8 month post and I’ve learned a lot and connected the dots to even more.
@@mystiquevening That's wonderful to hear!
It would have been funnier if the last person on the left stood up, grabbed their stool, walked over to the right side, and sat back down.
You're right. That would have been perfect!
365 people just walked off the stage.
Randall Makhanya Why that number and why is it the days in the one year.
Kyle Bell it is the amount of dislikes at the time probably
481 now. R'amen.
Best god debate introduction in the history of such activity.
Im suprised this video is still relevant, it was made in 2010 and still no theist has come up with arguments that follow these rules.
They never do, I guess. In that sense, 9 years isn't really a whole lot of time.
once in my ethics the teacher bought up the thumb being the only way u can write argument when i am the best in my art class and top of my english class when i dont use my thumb
@@crimsonscarlet5939 - I hope you were able to point this out to the teacher and the entire class.
Jadimatic try me
It's hardly surprising when you consider that most apologetics are centuries old, and the whole thing is based on ideas from nearly two millennia ago.
I just recently discovered your channel and wanted to say that as someone who was put through Christian schooling preschool-high school, lives in the same state as the mcfreaking creationist museum, and am still dealing with trauma from this attempted indoctrination that demands I be ashamed of my humanity, lack of penis, sexual orientation, refusal to believe things blindly, and rejection of the idea that an all powerful all knowing benevolent being would ever support or allow such shit done in his name...
Your videos. Are so fucking therapeutic
And I appreciate the ever loving shit out of you
as someone who is very religious, i think this video is fantastic in calling out the very paranoid, uncreative, and spiritually dry arguments so often used in debates between religion and atheism. I do believe there are some less than solid, straw-man assertions made in this very passive aggressive video, but I also believe the frustration held toward theists(especially my fellow Christians) is well deserved. And although hearing strong arguments against ones faith maybe uncomfortable and difficult, hearing differing views(certainly including ones well researched and articulated) is a very good thing. so yeah, great video.
Could you please list a point he made that you think is a straw man. I probably won't respond and I don't wish to argue. Thanks.
"We're all adults here".
You'd think that would actually mean something.
Can we all agree, now, that all religious texts belong in the fiction section of bookstores?
this man debunked god while laying out the rules
*what a madlad*
Sounds like you want me to stop talking about how important stone tools are to people who live in a digital age.
Not just that, you need to stop asserting that stone tools are BETTER than modern tools!
Just because modern tools are more applicable in the modern world, work better, and don't constantly need to be reworked for them to remain almost completely useless doesn't mean that stone tools should be abandoned. In fact it proves just the opposite. Everyone should carry around stone tools, not just any stone tools though; they need to be just like mine. If your stone tools aren't just like mine bad things will happen to you(when you die).
Scott
Shit! You might be right! If my computer stops working, I am fucked, but if my stone axe gets dull, I can rework it and make it sharp again! And since you explained this to me, I accept you as my authority and will never carry stone tools that do not meet your standards. Thank you :-)
I do what I can, and in recognition of your loyalties I will now reward you with gifts that seem to come to you from your own efforts, but are my doing some how. Oh, and if bad things happen to you, well I had nothing to do with it. Come one and all and receive (insert message), and stone tools of a particular type and style for everyone.
2 years late but how the fuck did you create a monarchy around stone tools from the looks of it XD
Without setting up ground rules, we will never push the theists to get better arguments.
This nonsense about Hitler being a humanist is laughable at best, and doesn't belong in a debate.
Mohamed ThePedophile Mein Kampf quotes Martin Luther father of Protestant Christian Church
This video literally destroys every theist argument in 10 minutes. That's impressive.
Not every argument just the most used.
Just the dumbest. Which is still a lot.
Holy shit, you've summed up every bad argument used to defend theism within the last 15 fucking years.
The woman that runs away screaming when socialism is mentioned: 😂😂
And did so almost fifteen years ago! In advance!
All debates should go like this one!
you mean by straw-manning the other side and poisoning the well to such an extent that they see no reason to try to engage in productive discourse?
Seth Apex
Please come up with an original and compelling argument for theism and we can have a debate right here if you'd like. (I don't mean to assume, but you're on the side of theism right?)
maxwell simon, Seth has a point.
I prefer when the moderator isn't a biased pos. too. Honestly.
Wanting arguments to be fresh and new instead of the same repeated drivel is not the same as holding a bias. Unless that bias is towards the present, which in a debate is what's most important.
maxwell, didn't you read my response?
First off, I hope this comment doesn't get taken down for obvious reasons. Honestly, what bugs me most about Christians and their views is that they never seem to understand their opponent's arguments. I can completely see where this video is coming from, and I am trying to educate myself on other's views so we can have civil and profitable dialogue.
most "religious" people are just assholes with a holier than though attitude and are doing it just to serve thier vanity. Asking them to think about it goes beyond thier ability to use basic logic.
Interesting. Seems like, as the "environment" (debate guidelines) changed, the religious side "thinned out". They were a population no longer well adapted to the environment.
Now, only thing remaining is to let survivor pass on their genes. That should be next video you make, Non-stamp.
And just for a few guidelines
**lists every single Christian argument that’s a blatant lie that everyone should know** ok now let’s begin!
Dear baby jesus, please give the people who believe in you, something even vaguely resembling a rational argument. I have not had a discussion with one yet that has even come close. One more thing, baby jesus... please tell them that this mock prayer is supposed to be ironic because they do not know the difference between irony, sarcasm and an actual plea to a supernatural being that has not been substantiated with anything stronger than tradition or faith. Allah be praised, amen and all that shit!
Dr. Michael: you forgot to speak praise upon His Noodly Appendages and salaam to TFSM, R'Amen! R'amen! RA'men!
@@jilliansmith7123 I see you're a fellow Spaghettian. May Pasta be upon you, my dear friend.
Christianity utterly destroyed in under ten minutes.
Totally, lmao
I love how the captions just randomly go to German at 1:44
IM NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO NOTICED
2 thumbs up dude you made an absolutely wonderful video
Yes, I too clicked twice on the like button!
This is sooo fake.
A real apologist will never leave, even if debunked
well.. they will.. after saying "your gonna burn in hell" or in the south "god bless your heart"
I honestly believe that if the Bible said getting kicked in the nuts didn’t hurt, Christian men would swear it were the truth.
10 years later and we still haven’t even bothered to take a single step forward
that's... pretty much what just happened with a friend of mine. I answered all his rhetoric bs about god and how he works and loves people and he was left with... nothing. Then he proceeded with the faith card and "I'm just a man, ask god". But. Problem is, it's not enough. He won't not believe in god just because there's no reason to. I've proven to him that his existence is illogical, but it doesn't matter to him. I've proven that overall, his religion only promotes self-righteousness and selfishness under the guise of making people better, and he DIDN'T EVEN ADDRESS THE PROBLEM. Just ignored it.
He's still one of my two best friends I've ever had and prob will ever have but he's so closed. He cannot oppose any of my argument on this issue but I can't declare I've one the debate since he doesn't really participate. it's not even a debate. That is one frightening thing this religion does to them. It's not like talking to a wall or a deaf. These people will try to talk to you into their belief without ever giving so much as a 100000000000000000000000000th of second of thought to your views on it. It's like a big void.
I have a question, how religious would you describe your friend? How much time does he actually spend on religious activities?
BOSSDONMAN hmmm not sure. When we were still in highschool, it really wasn't a lot, but he was reading the bible and praying pretty much everyday before sleeping( at least that's what he told me ). Then we were separated when we started college last... err two years ago and he gradually became that hardcore christian. Not catholic though, so you won't see him hanging around just any church. I don't think he has much time for himself( what he's in demands a LOT of his time, plus he's into combat sports ) so I'm guessing it's the same as before. Reading the bible and praying everyday. Maybe watching some religious videos, oh and he did find a church, and has talk meets there.
so yea, considering he doesn't have much free-time, he spends a lot of it on religious activities. May I inquire what your point is ?
War Wolf
thanks, I'll heed to your advice and let him get there by himself :)
Carl Sagan life has its highs and lows.
On the 'other side' aren't *you* dead ? ;o
UPDATE:
He's still my best friend and he just recently admitted to me that he is now an agnostic ^^
This was beautiful.
This was "arguably" the best non-debate ever!!!
Any debates between Theists and Atheists are a waste of time.
Theists didn't use logic, reason and evidence to arrive at their BELIEF, so no amount of logic, reason or evidence will change their mind.
Crazy prayingmantis theist 1 atheist 0 even before it begins
You mean
Atheist infinite
Theist 0
"Any debates between Theists and Atheists are a waste of time... no amount of logic, reason or evidence will change their mind."
The point isn't to convert the thinking of the theist(s) engaged in the debate. The point is to get the people in the crowd thinking and questioning their beliefs.
Someone 1282 magic debaters can't lose by default. Logic and reality debaters already cripple themselves.
"debaters can't lose by default"
Agreed. I'm never comfortable with these "my side trounced your" declarations, as though debates are football matches that can be objectively scored.
"Logic and reality debaters already cripple themselves."
On the face of it that sounds like a bizarre statement. Can you give an example?
Its been a year since I said I love this in the comments. So... I still love this. :)
Absolutely brilliant, sir! And a perfect representation of every single argument I've had with religious fanatics for the last 20 years
The one running and screaming when they heard the word socialism killed me.
Have any of you seen tektontv? It's a channel who makes fun of nonstamp collector's videos. They're really stupid. Not surprisingly, he doesn't allow comments on them. I wonder why that is.
+Dustin Gleason That's Sye Ten's channel. Explains it all
Today makes the 3rd year of me being an athiest
awesome! :)))
@@greatdanelegend7001 wanna a prize o something like that?
Genius. All your videos are pure genius. I'm so happy I found your channel today. Thank you very much for the work that you put in to these, you are hilarious!
I have only just recently discovered your videos and have found every one of them hilarious and very cleverly done. They don't just dissect the stupidity; they then rightfully display its Corpse in billboard fashion so as to advertise it's utterly comedic value.
Damn, I'm impressed by most of your videos but somehow this one surpasses most of them :D
The evolution investigation, quiz shows, and CONTEXT!! come up just behind it
Still waiting for a theist argument to this 10 years later. None so far
“Avoid going over things that are not actually true” 🤣😂🤣😂
-the debate should fall under that category.
Great video. Thank you truly for this
he said PAGERS, YOU KNOW ITS OLD
@InappropriateShorts
And the bible or quran isn't ?
Showed this to my mom who is a christan and she said that it was fake lmao
lol fake as in its an animation?
@@joshuavd5194 No fake as in it wasn't true.
@ŤŕïppýPøţåťœ
It's useless. I get the same stuff. I love his video about contradictions and people have a cow if I leave it in comments. It's just their own text! Actual Bible quotes! They say their "out of context" or "I bet you never read the Bible!" Or "you don't have the holy spirit, that's why you don't understand it!"
Over and over I have to say "I didn't write the book or make the video! You are offended by your own book! Think about it."
Christian: *Wittily asserts Pascal's Wager for the millionth time
This is among the greatest smack downs I’ve ever witnessed
I feel like Hitler having been catholic needs to be addresses more lmao
why?
@@TeeHee46Because his “devotion to atheism” comes up in far too many debates
@@oberonpanopticonnot only that, but the whole killings by Stalin Mao and Pol Pot proof that atheism bad is used way too often
Was this a speedrun to debunk literally every theistic argument ever?
I had a Christianity ad on this video lol
Hidden Gamer the mormon doctor?
Same
faraday yep
Unfair rules asking debaters to debate honestly.
The audience was like canned laughter from a 90s sitcom. Love it.
This was brilliant! I didn't know about the Treaty of Tripoli. It's pretty hard to say America was founded as a Christian country when the leaders and legislators at the time CLEARLY didn't think so. In fact, the whole concept seems like it was utterly ridiculous at the time.
September 2019, and it's still great. Thank you, sir.
It's 13 years old now and things still didn't change 😂😂
You pretty much summed up all debates on religion. You're knowledge is wide and deep. Great work @NonStampCollector
This is the video that made me leave christianity. Thank you.
Theyre both great. Nonstampcollector has better humour but darkmatter has better looking animations.
An Atheist WHAT!?! I thought it was Picasso doing Nonstamps videos.
13 years. Still factual. Amazing.
The flowers in front of the podium were a nice detail.
I absolutely love this channel! Hope it lasts for a long time!!
Found you channel just now. Hilarious. Thank you so much!
christians and vaccinations being mentioned in a video 11 years ago is surreal at least.
The only intellectually honest debate position for a Biblical literalist would be:
"Yes, the evidence for an old earth is overwhelming, but I have chosen to ignore or avoid learning about all of that overwhelming evidence from every scientific field including archaeology, biology, geography, geology, linguistics, virology, paleontology, astronomy, astrophysics, etc because I'm scared of being proven wrong and instead I believe in a loving God who sends most of humanity to be tortured in hell forever and not only purposely, magically removed all archaeological evidence of Biblical predictions like metal fragments of an Egyptian army from any sea east of Egypt, but also actively planted fossils in a certain order that proves evolution because scientists can 100% predict which fossils they expect to find in which locations and at which depths. I also choose to ignore the way the oil/gas industry and NASA are able to use ancient deltas to search for biological signatures. Yes, I prefer to believe with effectively 0 evidence in my God who was jealous of humanity building a tower to outer space (called the heavens back then) and so tore it down in his rage but then changed his mind 4000 years later when he allowed engineers to build rockets to the moon and the ISS, all because my parents believed in the Bible when I was young and vulnerable and I wanted to make them proud of me."
I was buzzed, felt lonely and meaningless, and your videos helped my mood. I love content like this.
This is probably the greatest video debunking religion that I have ever seen in my life. Absolutely phenomenal job.
Eight years later and I'm still hearing fundamentalists use all of these lines.
Twelve years later now!