You were definitely right that there wasn't a ton new for me in this discussion. However, it was fun to revisit the game, and you did raise a few interesting points which are worth further elaboration. One is the question of why Braid (or anything) should be a video game and not something else. What is the strength of video games versus other mediums, at least when it comes to conveying this particular set of concepts? One strength of games is that they allow you to discover things in a very organic and subjective way. There is a great deal of variance between player's experiences of the same game. This explains the enjoyment of watching newcomers play a game which you've already played and are very familiar with. Their unique approach to the game will often reveal different aspects of the game to you. In the case of Braid, I think the puzzles are loose enough that most of the variance between playthroughs comes from the slack in the mechanics. In The Witness by contrast, the puzzles are much more rigid, and the variance tends to "designed in" and only revealed by the unique psychological priming of the player approaching them. In either case, it is the ability to examine things from multiple angles (sometimes literally in The Witness), which games are the most robust at. Obviously there can be a comparison made to sculpture, but I definitely think it's more robust than that. Notice I never used the word "system" in the above paragraph. I also agree that Braid (and The Witness!) will be remembered much longer than most games that exist now. It is perhaps one of the first true classics of the video game medium. Maybe not remembered 1000 years from now, but definitely 50 years. I am however somewhat more optimistic than you about the progression of game design as a discipline. The Witness being almost instantly understood by a large number of people, unlike Braid, is evidence that there has a been a "leveling-up" of game literacy since the release of Braid, both among designers and players. It's probable that your primary lament with people "not understanding Braid" comes from outside the game industry, in that serious intellectuals more or less avoid the medium entirely if they aren't already in "the industry." Perhaps this dovetails with my previous point about the general misapprehension of the peculiar strengths of video games versus other mediums. Something that is still perhaps not well understood, even within the game industry.
Wouldn't necessarily say that the first thing that comes to my mind when referring to the strength of a video game in particular is discovering things (since you could also have a different experience reading a book or movie with a theory or something). Even words on a 'nonfiction' page can give insights based on other people reading them (granted there are a lot more ways to interpret a real life event than to discover a brand new mechanic based on watching a playthrough of a game).
It took me some time to find the referenced article by Krystian Majewski, (18:24) mostly because I couldn't figure out how to spell his name, but thanks for bringing it to my attention! I agree with your conclusion that it is interesting but goes too far. Actually having read the whole article I upgrade my opinion to: the article is initially compelling but unsound. He complains a lot about puzzles being impossible to figure out beforehand, whereas if you look at the puzzle and actually think about it for a moment, you can figure out all of the traps before you fall into them. Of course when I played Braid I just blundered into traps willy-nilly, but when I failed to avoid them I took a moment, thought about it, and understood why. "Oh you wily Jonathan Blow" I said. Additionally, Majewski's proposals go against pieces of the core design philosophy of Braid: completely exploring the interesting results of the time rules of Braid, and not cutting off interesting parts of the complete whole just because some people might have a hard time with them. Majewski's critique of World 5 Puzzle 4 “Crossing the Gap” is good, though. I must have tried that slightly-too-long jump 100 times.
Great video! You mentioned that you have kept track of other games that follow in the footsteps of Braid. Would you consider sharing that list either in video or text form?
Snurre O hamishtodd1.github.io/personal/recommendations.html :) and to copy paste: **You're not allowed to make games unless you have played these ones!** Portal Braid Incredipede World of Goo Naya's Quest Mushroom 11 Perspective VVVVVV Ibb & Obb Engare Cut the Rope Catrap - an expressive puzzle game from 1985! **These ones are great too** The Witness Four Sided Fantasy The Swapper Nano Pandas Bond Breaker Hundreds Eliss Infinity Recursed Quantum Conundrum - with the sound muted Moments of Reflection Dragonbox: Elements Chronotron Virtual Silence Kuru Kuru Kuririn Pushmo - appeared on the store within a day of Catrap's port. Coincidence?? The Lost Vikings Mi Mr Heart Loves You Very Much Lost in the Static And Yet It Moves Blek The Distorter Osmos Everyday Genius: SquareLogic English Country Tune Gish Trabae **Non-puzzle games** Super Monkey Ball Tombed The Mighty JillOff Metal Storm Ikaruga Traal Aban Hawkins and the 1000 Spikes Super Meat Boy Super Mario Land 2 - especially Tree Zone level 2 (link timestamped) Halo: Combat Evolved - especially the first level Castlevania Castlevania: Bloodlines Castlevania: Belmont's Revenge Shadow of the Colossus and Panzer Dragoon Zwei Qix Elevator Action Choplifter Sin and Punishment - given designers able to make something as incredible as Ikaruga with the idea of "polarity shifting", what will they do when given a 3D engine? **Not great, but "underappreciated" / "interesting for designers" / "7/10"** Lit - I've only played the wii version Intelligent Qube Somnia Spartan: Total Warrior Synaesthete Ivy the Kiwi - a mascot platformer with interesting controls, from the creator of Sonic Timeslip Kororimpa Gun Valkyrie Lattice Mighty Flip Champs Soul Bubbles - very, very fun physics
Hamish Todd, an amazing list, thanks for sharing. May I ask why you put a game like World of Goo above The Witness? Do you appreciate the lack of a defined puzzle space in the World of Goo and how it feels more interactive than the rigidness of The Witness?
No problem! I have The Witness at the top of the secondary list because obviously it's incredible. The puzzles are extremely well designed in every way I know, and they move the medium of puzzle design forward too: they have the "epiphany" thing going on where the mechanics themselves can be deduced. That is the beautiful thing about it, and that makes it a profound insight into the human mind: that our brains take stuff from eg our everyday life and bring them to bear on abstract problems like those of working out what the puzzle mechanics are. The reason it is not in the best of the best for me is that I am interested in mechanics that have more sophistication than The Witness's. I find its mechanics too simple. Now I know that that is to a large extent the point. The point is to do wonderful things like, in the case of the flowers, purposely make you think that the mechanics are something other than what they are (temporarily). That could only really be done with simple mechanics. So I'm glad that it was made, and possibly nobody other than Jonathan Blow could have made it, so I'm glad he made it. But I find the mechanics of those other games (Naya's Quest, Engare and World of Goo...) to be "just more interesting" than The Witness's, for a few different reasons, eg how they interact with perception or deeper mathematical concepts. For me, at least right now, that is more important than "moving the medium forward". Like... the medium is already in an ok place because of Braid and Portal, and it is important to demonstrate what can already be done. For that reason I also have three games at the top that do not have very interesting mechanics (or at least are less interesting than The Witness's): Cut The Rope, Ibb & Obb, and Catrap. These ones are important for other reasons. Respectively: CtR is popular, Ibb & Obb is multiplayer, and Catrap is extremely old! (the mirror/rotation puzzles and the specular reflection puzzles are my favourites in The Witness)
You were definitely right that there wasn't a ton new for me in this discussion. However, it was fun to revisit the game, and you did raise a few interesting points which are worth further elaboration.
One is the question of why Braid (or anything) should be a video game and not something else. What is the strength of video games versus other mediums, at least when it comes to conveying this particular set of concepts?
One strength of games is that they allow you to discover things in a very organic and subjective way. There is a great deal of variance between player's experiences of the same game. This explains the enjoyment of watching newcomers play a game which you've already played and are very familiar with. Their unique approach to the game will often reveal different aspects of the game to you. In the case of Braid, I think the puzzles are loose enough that most of the variance between playthroughs comes from the slack in the mechanics. In The Witness by contrast, the puzzles are much more rigid, and the variance tends to "designed in" and only revealed by the unique psychological priming of the player approaching them. In either case, it is the ability to examine things from multiple angles (sometimes literally in The Witness), which games are the most robust at. Obviously there can be a comparison made to sculpture, but I definitely think it's more robust than that.
Notice I never used the word "system" in the above paragraph.
I also agree that Braid (and The Witness!) will be remembered much longer than most games that exist now. It is perhaps one of the first true classics of the video game medium. Maybe not remembered 1000 years from now, but definitely 50 years.
I am however somewhat more optimistic than you about the progression of game design as a discipline. The Witness being almost instantly understood by a large number of people, unlike Braid, is evidence that there has a been a "leveling-up" of game literacy since the release of Braid, both among designers and players.
It's probable that your primary lament with people "not understanding Braid" comes from outside the game industry, in that serious intellectuals more or less avoid the medium entirely if they aren't already in "the industry." Perhaps this dovetails with my previous point about the general misapprehension of the peculiar strengths of video games versus other mediums. Something that is still perhaps not well understood, even within the game industry.
Wouldn't necessarily say that the first thing that comes to my mind when referring to the strength of a video game in particular is discovering things (since you could also have a different experience reading a book or movie with a theory or something). Even words on a 'nonfiction' page can give insights based on other people reading them (granted there are a lot more ways to interpret a real life event than to discover a brand new mechanic based on watching a playthrough of a game).
It took me some time to find the referenced article by Krystian Majewski, (18:24) mostly because I couldn't figure out how to spell his name, but thanks for bringing it to my attention!
I agree with your conclusion that it is interesting but goes too far. Actually having read the whole article I upgrade my opinion to: the article is initially compelling but unsound. He complains a lot about puzzles being impossible to figure out beforehand, whereas if you look at the puzzle and actually think about it for a moment, you can figure out all of the traps before you fall into them. Of course when I played Braid I just blundered into traps willy-nilly, but when I failed to avoid them I took a moment, thought about it, and understood why. "Oh you wily Jonathan Blow" I said.
Additionally, Majewski's proposals go against pieces of the core design philosophy of Braid: completely exploring the interesting results of the time rules of Braid, and not cutting off interesting parts of the complete whole just because some people might have a hard time with them.
Majewski's critique of World 5 Puzzle 4 “Crossing the Gap” is good, though. I must have tried that slightly-too-long jump 100 times.
awesome stream/video, great insight into communication and game mechanics
Great video! You mentioned that you have kept track of other games that follow in the footsteps of Braid. Would you consider sharing that list either in video or text form?
Snurre O hamishtodd1.github.io/personal/recommendations.html :) and to copy paste:
**You're not allowed to make games unless you have played these ones!**
Portal
Braid
Incredipede
World of Goo
Naya's Quest
Mushroom 11
Perspective
VVVVVV
Ibb & Obb
Engare
Cut the Rope
Catrap - an expressive puzzle game from 1985!
**These ones are great too**
The Witness
Four Sided Fantasy
The Swapper
Nano Pandas
Bond Breaker
Hundreds
Eliss Infinity
Recursed
Quantum Conundrum - with the sound muted
Moments of Reflection
Dragonbox: Elements
Chronotron
Virtual Silence
Kuru Kuru Kuririn
Pushmo - appeared on the store within a day of Catrap's port. Coincidence??
The Lost Vikings
Mi
Mr Heart Loves You Very Much
Lost in the Static
And Yet It Moves
Blek
The Distorter
Osmos
Everyday Genius: SquareLogic
English Country Tune
Gish
Trabae
**Non-puzzle games**
Super Monkey Ball
Tombed
The Mighty JillOff
Metal Storm
Ikaruga
Traal
Aban Hawkins and the 1000 Spikes
Super Meat Boy
Super Mario Land 2 - especially Tree Zone level 2 (link timestamped)
Halo: Combat Evolved - especially the first level
Castlevania
Castlevania: Bloodlines
Castlevania: Belmont's Revenge
Shadow of the Colossus and Panzer Dragoon Zwei
Qix
Elevator Action
Choplifter
Sin and Punishment - given designers able to make something as incredible as Ikaruga with the idea of "polarity shifting", what will they do when given a 3D engine?
**Not great, but "underappreciated" / "interesting for designers" / "7/10"**
Lit - I've only played the wii version
Intelligent Qube
Somnia
Spartan: Total Warrior
Synaesthete
Ivy the Kiwi - a mascot platformer with interesting controls, from the creator of Sonic
Timeslip
Kororimpa
Gun Valkyrie
Lattice
Mighty Flip Champs
Soul Bubbles - very, very fun physics
Hamish Todd, an amazing list, thanks for sharing. May I ask why you put a game like World of Goo above The Witness? Do you appreciate the lack of a defined puzzle space in the World of Goo and how it feels more interactive than the rigidness of The Witness?
No problem!
I have The Witness at the top of the secondary list because obviously it's incredible. The puzzles are extremely well designed in every way I know, and they move the medium of puzzle design forward too: they have the "epiphany" thing going on where the mechanics themselves can be deduced. That is the beautiful thing about it, and that makes it a profound insight into the human mind: that our brains take stuff from eg our everyday life and bring them to bear on abstract problems like those of working out what the puzzle mechanics are.
The reason it is not in the best of the best for me is that I am interested in mechanics that have more sophistication than The Witness's. I find its mechanics too simple. Now I know that that is to a large extent the point. The point is to do wonderful things like, in the case of the flowers, purposely make you think that the mechanics are something other than what they are (temporarily). That could only really be done with simple mechanics. So I'm glad that it was made, and possibly nobody other than Jonathan Blow could have made it, so I'm glad he made it.
But I find the mechanics of those other games (Naya's Quest, Engare and World of Goo...) to be "just more interesting" than The Witness's, for a few different reasons, eg how they interact with perception or deeper mathematical concepts. For me, at least right now, that is more important than "moving the medium forward". Like... the medium is already in an ok place because of Braid and Portal, and it is important to demonstrate what can already be done. For that reason I also have three games at the top that do not have very interesting mechanics (or at least are less interesting than The Witness's): Cut The Rope, Ibb & Obb, and Catrap. These ones are important for other reasons. Respectively: CtR is popular, Ibb & Obb is multiplayer, and Catrap is extremely old!
(the mirror/rotation puzzles and the specular reflection puzzles are my favourites in The Witness)
Fantastic writeup, thank you
what app or software do u use for your video over the game? for utube
XSplit and twitch