What about Temperature Resistance? What happens when you leave it outdoors at -20° and bringt back in to 25° Ort you have it inside at 16° and put it outside to 45° into the sun. The Alu shield survives that?
@@Haldi4803 First it is necessary to find a real application with frequent temperature changes, as required. At 45°C absolutely nothing happens; the electronics continue to work. At -20°C there should be no problem. * Aluminium 5052
I think this is a solid project, I'd say having one with integrated antenna is a must. Also that aluminum shield looks like it's going to soak up and dissipate a lot of heat.. harder to DIY heatgun solder and reflow, consider a version that uses 'Castellated Holes' at the cost of a slightly wider footprint, or perhaps an SMD to dual-pin breadboard adapter. The first thing you want people to be able to do is immediately upload a Hello World blinking led sketch, if it doesn't have a quick dev-path to do that, immediately committing to ordering PCBs to house a project we've never programmed is a 'no-bueno' often. Remember you are the creator so you've all the tools to work around that, and know it's intricacies and uncertainties.
Hi, I have implemented many features requested by you, tomorrow pre-orders start, these days I will upload the video on the project. shop.objexlabs.com
"Lowest sleep power ESP32" ... adds internal RGB LED. LOL ... oh wait a minute! YOU MADE THIS AS A HOBBYIST?!!!! I thought it was a new product from Espressif! Well done!
Great initiative ! I did something similar with an external PCB with latch / super low-power timer / charger, to put in front of any ESP. But having this so integrated in the size of an original ESP32 is a smart idea !
I'm really looking forward to any progress in this project and I would love to see more board designs with extreme focus on deep sleep low power consumption like what you're doing here. Have you also looked into the ESP32-C6? This one supports 802.11ax (wifi-6) which has a nice feature called Target Wake Time (TWT). It essentially allows you to remain connected to the AP (if supported by the AP of course) so you don't need to re-connect when waking from deep sleep. The ESP32-C5 (which has been announced about 18 months ago, but no sign of any silicon since) also claims to support this but then on 5 GHz too. I would love to finally have ESPEasy nodes (I'm the dev of ESPEasy by the way) run on simple batteries for months to years. So keep up the good work!
Thank you for your comment, if you go to minute 6:43 you can see that I have already developed a version with ESP32-C6. In the coming weeks I'll show the other variants of the ELPMs modules. ESP32-C6 is very interesting for smart home applications or the like, so you will definitely see videos in the future where I use it. I'm currently collecting all feedback to improve future designs :)
I think it would be nice to have this in the same form factor as the WROOM-1/1U modules. That way, some projects already using those modules could potentially see power consumption benefits possibly without needing to redesign other parts of the project.
@@SalvatoreRaccardi This module in current form is also not much good to most people without facilities to solder it onto their own PCB. This is where a standard castellated module wins outright. I can use currently available modules, but not this. I don't have means to solder this. I would have to acquire or build a hot plate soldering station.
@@MrDomingo55 The project is designed primarily for industrial use. Anyway I'm considering whether to develop some kind of adapter with castellated holes that I'll sell together with the module already soldered(Solder paste high melting point), or to develop a version with in castellated holes.
This is really cool. ESP32 stuff has always been a little too power hungry. The other big flaw with them for battery life is how slow they are to wake (and then connect to Wifi). Every second at full power with Wifi enabled will burn hours of sleep time if your current draw is in nA. I think someone else mentioned the C6 and TWT.... I don't know if that will work with this method. I'm not that experienced with it, but I think TWT requires a separate power regime that will still draw more current than deep sleep. Hopefully I'm wrong though.
I like the design and the idea... It's hard to find super low power stuff that's easily hackable! If I'd add anything, it would be mounting holes or some other way to mount it. It doesn't look like there's much to grab onto.
Awesome project! Maybe you can mitigate the soldering problem with using conductive epoxy instead? There are quite cheap and should be conductive enough. Also some people just use plastics that are spray painted with carbon filled acrylic. For the power latch it would be really cool if the circuit could be triggered by a wireless powered external signal 😅
"Maybe you can mitigate the soldering problem with using conductive epoxy instead?" Yes is a solution I'm considering. "For the power latch it would be really cool if the circuit could be triggered by a wireless powered external signal" It is actually possible to do so, it is complex to implement. A very simple alternative is the use of laser/photoresistor or infrared LEDs.
First off let me say what a great job you did. I would love to get my hands on of those modules. And, I would definitely use it in my projects if the price is not to far off from the ESP32-WROOM-S3 module. For just a few one-off hobby projects the price doesn't really make a big difference, even if it is like 2 or 3 times the price. If I really need low power consumption it is worth it. So, if it is just a few modules I would use it. But, for large batches, the price of each component is a serious thing to always be aware off. And it might turn out to be to expensive to use and drive the price for the consumer up too much. But again, very nice job!
Thanks for your feedback, in the first quarter of 2024 I'll start preorders of devkits + modules. I'm reducing costs as much as possible. I strongly suggest you to stay updated on the channel to know the developments of the project.
Hi from Italy. Very good project by the way, however, the only limitation that I see using this in my projects may be the loosing of the ESP32 internal RTC memory (I assume that you cut off the current to the MCU) that I use to share data (a JSON parsed) between active periods. ESP32 RTC memory is the only efficient way to maintain data after a deepsleep reset without involving NVM or writing to the flash killing it. I’ve never used an external RTC so I don’t know if those modules allows also to store this type of data, it can be very handy.
The external RTC offers the option to save some data. Since the ESP32-S3 is turned off, there are limitations in some applications. I fully understand that in some applications there are limitations from the software point of view, since the module also works with the "standard" deep sleep I suggest alternating the modes of operation to have the maximum energy efficiency and at the same time ensure the proper operation of the firmware.
Really great work man!! I’m using a S3 in my product and your power saving is really useful! I’m curious, which changes made the best improvements to power consumption?
You are right and I apologize for the unplanned distribution delays. I had planned to launch the products in April but there were some delays. We will sell some engineering sample units in May. We look forward to selling our products but at the same time we care that the products are perfect, that's why we are taking longer to sell. I don't know if you've had a chance to read the docs you find here yet: objexlabs.com/products/ELPM-S3LW objexlabs.com/products/ELPM-S3 Thanks!
I love this, but it looks difficult for newbees to solder... If it could be put into a longer/narrower package, with all of the pins exposed to the edge, it would make it easy to use and breadboard friendly... One feature I would really need is a dual i2c port, so that I could have on-board i2c devices on a private i2c bus and be able to talk to the board externally as a i2c slave.
@@SalvatoreRaccardi I designed a board that has a esp32 and ADS1115 on it with some additional parts. It should work as a stand-alone board.. But I would like it to link to 2 other copies of the same board over i2c, without the master seeing the ADS1115 on the slave boards. I am not sure how to do this... Can you help?
Great product i want to use 3-4 sensors and keep them off during deep sleep to save power how i can achieve this i am looking for P channel MOSFET if you please guide me perfect solution for my project thank you in advance
It's a very simple software to use, I recommend you consult the official qoitech documentation, if you have any other questions about it please ask me.
Hi, wow, that's a awesome project. I'm working on my personal project which includes two devices with the ESP32-S3, and the one that requires to be powered with a lifepo4 cell only works for 2,5h. The two devices must be connected by ESPNOW protocol and I can't put on sleep mode because the RF module doesn't work on deep sleep. That's the reason I changed to the NRF52 modules, they consume less than the ESP32-S3 (both in active mode). Your solution could have a big welcome for all those projects that need low consumption when active and being powered by batteries. Which is the power consumption of your design when it's in active mode using RF module? Nice work and I wish you all the best for this project.
The power consumption when it is turned on is always the same as ESP32S3. Unfortunately, it is not possible to reduce the transmission consumption of the ESP32 module.
@@SalvatoreRaccardi It is possible to reduce the transmission consumption of ESP32 by reducing time it takes to transmit and it will be significant saving in power consumption.
Looks like a great project - but I'm a little confused by your statements and visuals in the video when you are talking about current comparison when the S3 is in deep sleep. The S3 cannot go lower than 6-7uA when in deep sleep, when being power by a correct and stable voltage, so how a you possibly claiming nA instead of uA when in deep sleep? If the ESP32-S3 actually sleeping or is it just powered down?
When I say "deep sleep mode" referring to the module I designed I mean that ESP32S3 and all components connected to 3v3 are turned off. That is why very few nA(1-100). Basically I developed a power latch that turns ON the ESP32S3 + 3V3 path only if an interrupt is detected in the master or wake input. So ESP32S3 is off - If power latch is enabled. You can always use the classic ESP32 deep sleep.
@@SalvatoreRaccardi right, so this is all very misleading - you are turning the ESP32-S3 off, not sleeping it. Totally different thing. You are also not accounting for the extra cost or turning the ESP32-S3 on where it has to calibrate the radio that takes up to 450mA current for a period, compared to waking from deep sleep which just loads the cached calibrated data, so only a tiny power hit. You've made a nice module - nothing really new in terms of controlling the power + and how to re-trigger it with RTC + latch etc - a few boards out there already do that, but you've put it in a nice looking package for sure, but you need to re-think how you present the data because as time 8:10 shows, you clearly state deep sleep being < 1uA, which is impossible.
Okay, there was some confusion about the terminology, I'll write the documentation better. It may be that I am wrong but from my point of view better to provide 450mA for a few ms instead of having a continuous draw of 7uA if the device turns on very few times a day. It all depends on the type of device. Many battery-powered smart sensors stay off most of the time. However I'll do more testing and analysis on this. objexlabs.com/assets/pdf/PRODUCT_BRIEF_ELPM_S3.pdf What other boards based with the EPS32S3 use a power latch to improve power efficiency?
@@UnexpectedMakerAt minute 8:18 on the left you see the Power consumption of the ELPM-S3 waiting for interrupt. And on the right the Power consumption in deep sIeep of the ESP32S3. The data I show is true, and if you look closely at the video I explain the operation of the module and the power latch 2:55 .
Probably uses an external RTC like the AB1805 to use as a power switch for the ESP32. I think the YT title is a bit misleading. The AB1805 RTC is already very low power, but when clock is running still consumes 14-55 nA. I agree the 1nA "deep sleep" title refers to a full shutdown state, which is different from sleep (as it can't wake up on its own). So the product can perhaps be woken up by a GPIO pin, which is still useful for a shipping mode with batteries installed, but not quite the same. The further usefulness also depends if these power rails are available to the I/O of the module.. because just switching the ESP32 and not surrounding sensors etc. basically voids the use. After all; one could also connect this AB1805 and power switch externally to get the same functionality, but obv that requires more work. Finally, making a truly low *energy* module also depends on the full system implementation. Relatively speaking ESP32s (deep) sleep modes are quite poor, as they require a full chip reboot through an often slow bootloader (competing MCUs boot in several microseconds, and resume from last PC), which wastes a lot of uJ while its doing useless busy-work.
Is there a sx1262 version whuch is mkre recent than sx127x series? I'm Loving the low-power optimizations, the sleep current is top-notch. Congratulations.
Yes of course! First, the data I obtained are from some simulations I did to see the differences in energy efficiency between the two modules. What I did is to assume a device that every time it is triggered remains on for 10seconds with an average current draw of 45mA. Then I chose Energizer alkaline batteries for the simulation. And I analyzed the battery life by changing the number of interactions from 1 per day up to 200. Of course, the data I got will vary depending on the application. I simply did a simulation, so then each application will have different power consumption. In the simulation I considered the following deepsleep* current draw for the two modules: ELPM-S3 = 100nA ESP32S3* = 7uA
When in deep sleep basically the ESP32S3 is turned off. The power unit I designed wakes up the microcontroller only if it senses an interrupt(master/gate/wake input) from an external source or from the external RTC itself.
Hi, awesome work👏. The results look amazing. I had a few queries. In the product brief you mentioned that you power down the micro entirely. Wouldn't this erase all variables/data stored on the sram? Some applications that I worked on relied on retaining a small amount of state info to resume where they left off. A workaround for systems with no memory retention is to write state data to flash before power down and read it back during power up. But this method is unreliable due to limited number of write cycles allowed by most nand flash modules (at 10sec duty cycle over a course of 10 years you will write ~30million times, way above nand flash endurance). So a future modification can be adding an optional small external sram ic that is powered even in the "deep sleep". All modern low power mcu ( even esp32s3) have some sort of limited ram retention in deep sleep. This would remove some limitations of the current design from software development perspective. This applies only if you intend to use the module for such tasks ofcourse. If not ignore the above 😂 . Anyways awesome work once again. I wish you best of luck 👍.
Thanks for the very nice tip, as you well said it is possible to save the data in the flash of the ESP32S3 and also in a small flash of the external RTC. It might be interesting to add a small sram always powered. Actually it is already possible to do that now, it might be interesting to insert into the module.
You are right, although I have a feeling that they are focusing a lot on optimizing ESP-NOW. I hope that the next versions of ESP32 will have a minimum operating voltage of 1.8V, this would help a lot in the development of low-power nodes.
@@SalvatoreRaccardi I use ESPnow in all my sensors and devices (for all that are sleeping) and I just got my first device to work on 500mAh battery for 450 days (and is still working). Device wakes up every 3 minutes, measures, sends over ESPnow and goes to sleep. However, BLE is another beast, and I agree with @robinjansen51 - today BLE in ESP32 is far, far from NRFxxx or so.
where to buy?! please do a version with embedded antenna as well, maybe smd ceramic will be cool! this is very high end stuff! does it have a battery recharge capabilty? I can't find it on the docs. complimenti!
It will be available for sale in the coming weeks. I'm already developing a version with the PCB antenna. There is no battery charging IC, because it depends so much on the type of battery you want to charge and other design choices. So I preferred not to put it in.
Very nice work. Can it work with external Sensor Interupts in the classical way? I would be interested in a project like this with the ESP32 C3. And of course, what are the production costs of the samples? My sensor i want to build is powered by a single Lipo Cell, and should be woken up by a sensor like a MPU6050 or LIS3DH and send some data via WiFi. At the moment I'm using the old ESP32, but even with a lot of DeepSleep and reduced Speed etc, a 2000mAh Battery lasts maybe 3 days, because the current draw is around 20mA the whole time
"Can it work with external Sensor Interupts in the classical way?" yep! I recommend that you choose an ultra low power accellerometer, I suggest you look at the ones from ST and Bosch. The project you described is great for ELPM-S3!
Is the RTC the RV3028-C7? I used this one in my projects before to do the same as shown here, just not on the ESP module itself. Powerful little thing. Only downside is the cost of the RTC if purchased in small quantities.
@@SalvatoreRaccardi Yes, I've seen that, but for me personally I don't need hundreds of them and I don't sell anything on etsy or similar. For the power latch, I just used a MOSFET and used the RTC a bit out of spec, so it doesn't reset the interrupt line when programmed.
@@drstefankrank The power latch I developed is more complex because it has to handle multiple inputs and also the master input triggers the system if it detects a change in signal status, 0 to 1 & 1 to 0.
@@SalvatoreRaccardi I think it is also much better to do so. I did this hack only for my specific use case. (It's a plant soil sensor, woken up through the RTC every 3 hours and the ESP resets the interrupt when it's done. In addition to that only a button to manually trigger the RTC to wake up if needed.) Your design needs to be way more universal and shouldn't rely on undocumented behaviour that may not work in the next revision of a used component. Any plans when it will be available and are you shipping to the EU?
wait: did you reduce sleep current of S3 to nA or your project as such consumes nA while sleeping? or another question: during the sleep, does S3 sleep or is powered off?
As I say in the video the power block that is designed to control the ESP32S3 power on. So I don't use the classic deep sleep mode of the ESP32S3. And during the deep sleep the ESP32 is powered off.
@@oktopus1539 yeah, although the manufacturer recommends powering the led has a higher voltage. But it also works fine at 3V3, even espressif powers the led at 3V3😅
1. Music is way too loud (notice that biggest yt channels don't use music at all) 2. Need to have a version with built in antenna 3. Need to cost almost the same as original wroom modules 4. Castellated holes are way easier to solder
1. I don't feel the music is loud, plus I only use it in some parts of the video. In any case you can turn down the volume of the video. 2. I have to think about that. 3. It will be so by manufacturing many units. 4. It is actually very easy to solder, in any case I'm also thinking about solving this problem. I have to think about it.
@@SalvatoreRaccardi 1. music is very loud compared to your voice volume, especially the one at 4 minute mark 2. many battery powered projects are also small, they do not need external antenna on cable, that also makes cost bigger 4. qfn and castellated holes are easy to solder because you can inspect the joints on the sides, you can't do that with parts that have only contact patches underneath, not to mention it limits the ability to desolder it from the bottom(hot air) if you have 2 sided board with components underneath as you will blow them away. I am interested in this project because of exact reasons you mentioned, esp32 is popular and easy to work with. I also wanted to use eink display. But 2 and 4 are dealbreakers for me. I need the smallest possible esp32 without anything on the board that is not necessary but with built in antenna. Btw, what eink display is on video?
Yes of course, as soon as I develop the final version I'll proceed with all the certifications(CE, FCC...) and tests in specialized laboratories for RF.
Consider that the ESP32-S3-WROOM-1-N8 module costs about 3.5 euros including VAT. ELPM-S3 is specialized for Extreme/Ultra low power applications, so it will cost more. And in the production stage, it is not certain that I'll use aluminum for the shield.
all is nice except one thing: that project does NOT seem to be user friendly, not open source etc, So in fact it is only a... commercial of your business. So thank you but no, thank you
First of all, thank you for your comment. It is not user friendly because full documentation has not been published yet, also the version shown in the video obsolete(and user friendly ≠ open source). I made this video to share the progress we made during development; it is not a tutorial on how to make such a product. Also it is a product designed for industrial uses so you are for commercial use.
@@SalvatoreRaccardi that is ok, you should have just put the title: "COMMERCIAL - not to teach you anything but to let you know you can buy my thingis!"
Read the documentation: objexlabs.com/assets/pdf/PRODUCT_BRIEF_ELPM_S3.pdf
What about Temperature Resistance?
What happens when you leave it outdoors at -20° and bringt back in to 25° Ort you have it inside at 16° and put it outside to 45° into the sun.
The Alu shield survives that?
@@Haldi4803 First it is necessary to find a real application with frequent temperature changes, as required. At 45°C absolutely nothing happens; the electronics continue to work. At -20°C there should be no problem.
* Aluminium 5052
I can see it being useful for outdoor/ disconnected applications where small renewables are used as power sources. Great work.
Yes, exactly!
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I think this is a solid project, I'd say having one with integrated antenna is a must. Also that aluminum shield looks like it's going to soak up and dissipate a lot of heat.. harder to DIY heatgun solder and reflow, consider a version that uses 'Castellated Holes' at the cost of a slightly wider footprint, or perhaps an SMD to dual-pin breadboard adapter.
The first thing you want people to be able to do is immediately upload a Hello World blinking led sketch, if it doesn't have a quick dev-path to do that, immediately committing to ordering PCBs to house a project we've never programmed is a 'no-bueno' often. Remember you are the creator so you've all the tools to work around that, and know it's intricacies and uncertainties.
Thank you for the feedback I appreciate it!
Hi, I have implemented many features requested by you, tomorrow pre-orders start, these days I will upload the video on the project. shop.objexlabs.com
"Lowest sleep power ESP32" ... adds internal RGB LED. LOL ... oh wait a minute! YOU MADE THIS AS A HOBBYIST?!!!! I thought it was a new product from Espressif! Well done!
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What an exciting adventure. I'd keep it in mind for my future projects.
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Great initiative ! I did something similar with an external PCB with latch / super low-power timer / charger, to put in front of any ESP. But having this so integrated in the size of an original ESP32 is a smart idea !
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I'm really looking forward to any progress in this project and I would love to see more board designs with extreme focus on deep sleep low power consumption like what you're doing here.
Have you also looked into the ESP32-C6?
This one supports 802.11ax (wifi-6) which has a nice feature called Target Wake Time (TWT).
It essentially allows you to remain connected to the AP (if supported by the AP of course) so you don't need to re-connect when waking from deep sleep.
The ESP32-C5 (which has been announced about 18 months ago, but no sign of any silicon since) also claims to support this but then on 5 GHz too.
I would love to finally have ESPEasy nodes (I'm the dev of ESPEasy by the way) run on simple batteries for months to years.
So keep up the good work!
Thank you for your comment, if you go to minute 6:43 you can see that I have already developed a version with ESP32-C6. In the coming weeks I'll show the other variants of the ELPMs modules. ESP32-C6 is very interesting for smart home applications or the like, so you will definitely see videos in the future where I use it. I'm currently collecting all feedback to improve future designs :)
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I think it would be nice to have this in the same form factor as the WROOM-1/1U modules. That way, some projects already using those modules could potentially see power consumption benefits possibly without needing to redesign other parts of the project.
Good point. Theoretically I could do it, I have to think about it. Thanks for the advice!
@@SalvatoreRaccardi This module in current form is also not much good to most people without facilities to solder it onto their own PCB. This is where a standard castellated module wins outright. I can use currently available modules, but not this. I don't have means to solder this. I would have to acquire or build a hot plate soldering station.
@@MrDomingo55 The project is designed primarily for industrial use. Anyway I'm considering whether to develop some kind of adapter with castellated holes that I'll sell together with the module already soldered(Solder paste high melting point), or to develop a version with in castellated holes.
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nice project I am also work on it. but in my opinion Keithley DMM6500 is better way to measure amper. Thanks!
You are right but the price of the instrument is twice what I currently have.
This is really cool. ESP32 stuff has always been a little too power hungry. The other big flaw with them for battery life is how slow they are to wake (and then connect to Wifi). Every second at full power with Wifi enabled will burn hours of sleep time if your current draw is in nA. I think someone else mentioned the C6 and TWT.... I don't know if that will work with this method. I'm not that experienced with it, but I think TWT requires a separate power regime that will still draw more current than deep sleep. Hopefully I'm wrong though.
Deep stop also works with C6. Power latch with external RTC turns off the microcontroller (ESP32S3, ESP32C6...).
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I like the design and the idea... It's hard to find super low power stuff that's easily hackable! If I'd add anything, it would be mounting holes or some other way to mount it. It doesn't look like there's much to grab onto.
I'm improving the design to simplify soldering and assembly.
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This microcontroller is gonna outlive that damn solar lamp that has been running day and night for 10 years on 1 nicd battery
With the right hardware and software optimizations, very cool things can be done.
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Awesome project! Maybe you can mitigate the soldering problem with using conductive epoxy instead? There are quite cheap and should be conductive enough. Also some people just use plastics that are spray painted with carbon filled acrylic.
For the power latch it would be really cool if the circuit could be triggered by a wireless powered external signal 😅
"Maybe you can mitigate the soldering problem with using conductive epoxy instead?"
Yes is a solution I'm considering.
"For the power latch it would be really cool if the circuit could be triggered by a wireless powered external signal"
It is actually possible to do so, it is complex to implement. A very simple alternative is the use of laser/photoresistor or infrared LEDs.
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Brilliant! Of course I would use it in my Smart Knob project. I assure!!!
Thank you! Developing a Smart Knob project can be very interesting to take advantage of the potential of the ELPM-S3 module.
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I've said it before, and I'll say it again - You're a Genius!
Thank you! I love my work and I do it with passion.
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Excellent work
Very cool. In the past little solar projects have been unfeasible / impractical with ESP32. I'm staying tuned!
I'm working on some energy harvesting projects using ELPM-S3.
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I really appreciate your content. That's specialised yet it's qualitative.
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good work...please mass produce it
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First off let me say what a great job you did. I would love to get my hands on of those modules. And, I would definitely use it in my projects if the price is not to far off from the ESP32-WROOM-S3 module. For just a few one-off hobby projects the price doesn't really make a big difference, even if it is like 2 or 3 times the price. If I really need low power consumption it is worth it. So, if it is just a few modules I would use it. But, for large batches, the price of each component is a serious thing to always be aware off. And it might turn out to be to expensive to use and drive the price for the consumer up too much. But again, very nice job!
Thanks for your feedback, in the first quarter of 2024 I'll start preorders of devkits + modules. I'm reducing costs as much as possible.
I strongly suggest you to stay updated on the channel to know the developments of the project.
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if paired with a super small solar cell as a replacement or modified shield u could have a system that never dies it seems. kind of a cool thought
with proper software optimization you can do it (PV + supercap).
Hi from Italy. Very good project by the way, however, the only limitation that I see using this in my projects may be the loosing of the ESP32 internal RTC memory (I assume that you cut off the current to the MCU) that I use to share data (a JSON parsed) between active periods. ESP32 RTC memory is the only efficient way to maintain data after a deepsleep reset without involving NVM or writing to the flash killing it. I’ve never used an external RTC so I don’t know if those modules allows also to store this type of data, it can be very handy.
The external RTC offers the option to save some data. Since the ESP32-S3 is turned off, there are limitations in some applications.
I fully understand that in some applications there are limitations from the software point of view, since the module also works with the "standard" deep sleep I suggest alternating the modes of operation to have the maximum energy efficiency and at the same time ensure the proper operation of the firmware.
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This is an incredible project. Great work!
Thanks!
Very nice work, music a bit loud as your voice was comparatively quiet. That said you've done an excellent job, well done!
In the next video I'll pay more attention to the loudness of the music.
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Really great work man!! I’m using a S3 in my product and your power saving is really useful!
I’m curious, which changes made the best improvements to power consumption?
Hi!
In the video I explain it, basically I have developed a smart power OFF/ON system to ensure very low power consumption.
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Fantastic work and it sounds like espressif should take note of your ideas.
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I would buy it
It will be possible to do this soon😊
Interesting project, Wouldn't mind picking a few up if they become available :)
This is a first prototype, devkits will soon be available for purchase to try out the module.
@@SalvatoreRaccardi ... Please quantify "soon" for us, it's not available at your store and the possible scenarios of use are certainly endless
You are right and I apologize for the unplanned distribution delays. I had planned to launch the products in April but there were some delays. We will sell some engineering sample units in May.
We look forward to selling our products but at the same time we care that the products are perfect, that's why we are taking longer to sell.
I don't know if you've had a chance to read the docs you find here yet:
objexlabs.com/products/ELPM-S3LW
objexlabs.com/products/ELPM-S3
Thanks!
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I love this, but it looks difficult for newbees to solder... If it could be put into a longer/narrower package, with all of the pins exposed to the edge, it would
make it easy to use and breadboard friendly...
One feature I would really need is a dual i2c port, so that
I could have on-board i2c devices on a private i2c bus and
be able to talk to the board externally as a i2c slave.
I'm considering developing a bigger version with castellated holes. You can already have more I2C ports now with this first prototype.
@@SalvatoreRaccardi I designed a board that has a esp32 and ADS1115 on it with some additional parts. It should work as a stand-alone board..
But I would like it to link to 2 other copies of the same board over i2c, without the master seeing the ADS1115 on the slave boards.
I am not sure how to do this... Can you help?
@@SalvatoreRaccardi I also vote for some hand-solderable version.
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Very impressive! Keep going!
Thanks!
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Wow amazing work. And great backing music!! Can u pass on the track id?!
Thanks! You can find all the sound tracks I used in description.
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AMAZING WORK! Loving it!
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Amazing project!
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Amazing project. Congratulations. What RTC you are using? Is it DS3231, where the alarm time can be programmed via I2C?
Thanks! RTC: RV-3028-C7
Great product i want to use 3-4 sensors and keep them off during deep sleep to save power how i can achieve this i am looking for P channel MOSFET if you please guide me perfect solution for my project thank you in advance
Can you make a video on the software you are using for the measurements?
It's a very simple software to use, I recommend you consult the official qoitech documentation, if you have any other questions about it please ask me.
@SalvatoreRaccardi, thank you very much. I will surely ask, 😊
Hi, wow, that's a awesome project. I'm working on my personal project which includes two devices with the ESP32-S3, and the one that requires to be powered with a lifepo4 cell only works for 2,5h. The two devices must be connected by ESPNOW protocol and I can't put on sleep mode because the RF module doesn't work on deep sleep.
That's the reason I changed to the NRF52 modules, they consume less than the ESP32-S3 (both in active mode).
Your solution could have a big welcome for all those projects that need low consumption when active and being powered by batteries.
Which is the power consumption of your design when it's in active mode using RF module?
Nice work and I wish you all the best for this project.
The power consumption when it is turned on is always the same as ESP32S3. Unfortunately, it is not possible to reduce the transmission consumption of the ESP32 module.
@@SalvatoreRaccardi It is possible to reduce the transmission consumption of ESP32 by reducing time it takes to transmit and it will be significant saving in power consumption.
@@gsge Yes of course via software, I meant on the hardware side.
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Awesome project
Thank you🙏
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Amazing...
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which software are you using to make that document ?
LaTeX
Looks like a great project - but I'm a little confused by your statements and visuals in the video when you are talking about current comparison when the S3 is in deep sleep. The S3 cannot go lower than 6-7uA when in deep sleep, when being power by a correct and stable voltage, so how a you possibly claiming nA instead of uA when in deep sleep?
If the ESP32-S3 actually sleeping or is it just powered down?
When I say "deep sleep mode" referring to the module I designed I mean that ESP32S3 and all components connected to 3v3 are turned off. That is why very few nA(1-100). Basically I developed a power latch that turns ON the ESP32S3 + 3V3 path only if an interrupt is detected in the master or wake input.
So ESP32S3 is off - If power latch is enabled. You can always use the classic ESP32 deep sleep.
@@SalvatoreRaccardi right, so this is all very misleading - you are turning the ESP32-S3 off, not sleeping it. Totally different thing. You are also not accounting for the extra cost or turning the ESP32-S3 on where it has to calibrate the radio that takes up to 450mA current for a period, compared to waking from deep sleep which just loads the cached calibrated data, so only a tiny power hit.
You've made a nice module - nothing really new in terms of controlling the power + and how to re-trigger it with RTC + latch etc - a few boards out there already do that, but you've put it in a nice looking package for sure, but you need to re-think how you present the data because as time 8:10 shows, you clearly state deep sleep being < 1uA, which is impossible.
Okay, there was some confusion about the terminology, I'll write the documentation better.
It may be that I am wrong but from my point of view better to provide 450mA for a few ms instead of having a continuous draw of 7uA if the device turns on very few times a day. It all depends on the type of device. Many battery-powered smart sensors stay off most of the time.
However I'll do more testing and analysis on this.
objexlabs.com/assets/pdf/PRODUCT_BRIEF_ELPM_S3.pdf
What other boards based with the EPS32S3 use a power latch to improve power efficiency?
@@UnexpectedMakerAt minute 8:18 on the left you see the Power consumption of the ELPM-S3 waiting for interrupt. And on the right the Power consumption in deep sIeep of the ESP32S3. The data I show is true, and if you look closely at the video I explain the operation of the module and the power latch 2:55 .
Probably uses an external RTC like the AB1805 to use as a power switch for the ESP32.
I think the YT title is a bit misleading. The AB1805 RTC is already very low power, but when clock is running still consumes 14-55 nA. I agree the 1nA "deep sleep" title refers to a full shutdown state, which is different from sleep (as it can't wake up on its own). So the product can perhaps be woken up by a GPIO pin, which is still useful for a shipping mode with batteries installed, but not quite the same.
The further usefulness also depends if these power rails are available to the I/O of the module.. because just switching the ESP32 and not surrounding sensors etc. basically voids the use. After all; one could also connect this AB1805 and power switch externally to get the same functionality, but obv that requires more work.
Finally, making a truly low *energy* module also depends on the full system implementation. Relatively speaking ESP32s (deep) sleep modes are quite poor, as they require a full chip reboot through an often slow bootloader (competing MCUs boot in several microseconds, and resume from last PC), which wastes a lot of uJ while its doing useless busy-work.
Is there a sx1262 version whuch is mkre recent than sx127x series? I'm Loving the low-power optimizations, the sleep current is top-notch. Congratulations.
We are currently using the SX1262.
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So good and interesting 👏🏻
Hello, Salvatore! Can you explain better you sheet where you compare the esp32-s3 with the objex module? It is 200 interactions during 10sec per day?
Yes of course!
First, the data I obtained are from some simulations I did to see the differences in energy efficiency between the two modules. What I did is to assume a device that every time it is triggered remains on for 10seconds with an average current draw of 45mA. Then I chose Energizer alkaline batteries for the simulation.
And I analyzed the battery life by changing the number of interactions from 1 per day up to 200.
Of course, the data I got will vary depending on the application. I simply did a simulation, so then each application will have different power consumption.
In the simulation I considered the following deepsleep* current draw for the two modules:
ELPM-S3 = 100nA
ESP32S3* = 7uA
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can you share a little bit more about how the extreme power saver mode works with Wi-Fi? how does it keep sending beacons/probes?
When in deep sleep basically the ESP32S3 is turned off. The power unit I designed wakes up the microcontroller only if it senses an interrupt(master/gate/wake input) from an external source or from the external RTC itself.
What is that power unit you're using ?
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I‘m a bit interested in how you designed the pcb to pass through in that way i somehow struggle when it’s two sided + and i have pads on both sides..
It's not complex, consider that the pcb is 4 layers. Online you can find several interesting tutorials on this topic.
Nice work!!...cheers.
Thanks!
Great project, congratulations! Is it 1nA with the RTC on, or just wake up from an external signal/interrupt?
Thanks, 1-5nA external interrupt with RTC OFF.
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guess what you wouldnt be able to offerd it (me as well) :D
Hi, awesome work👏. The results look amazing.
I had a few queries. In the product brief you mentioned that you power down the micro entirely. Wouldn't this erase all variables/data stored on the sram?
Some applications that I worked on relied on retaining a small amount of state info to resume where they left off.
A workaround for systems with no memory retention is to write state data to flash before power down and read it back during power up. But this method is unreliable due to limited number of write cycles allowed by most nand flash modules (at 10sec duty cycle over a course of 10 years you will write ~30million times, way above nand flash endurance).
So a future modification can be adding an optional small external sram ic that is powered even in the "deep sleep". All modern low power mcu ( even esp32s3) have some sort of limited ram retention in deep sleep. This would remove some limitations of the current design from software development perspective.
This applies only if you intend to use the module for such tasks ofcourse. If not ignore the above 😂 .
Anyways awesome work once again. I wish you best of luck 👍.
Thanks for the very nice tip, as you well said it is possible to save the data in the flash of the ESP32S3 and also in a small flash of the external RTC. It might be interesting to add a small sram always powered. Actually it is already possible to do that now, it might be interesting to insert into the module.
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Would be nice if the ESP32 would have actual low energy Bluetooth like the NRF52x.
You are right, although I have a feeling that they are focusing a lot on optimizing ESP-NOW. I hope that the next versions of ESP32 will have a minimum operating voltage of 1.8V, this would help a lot in the development of low-power nodes.
@@SalvatoreRaccardi I use ESPnow in all my sensors and devices (for all that are sleeping) and I just got my first device to work on 500mAh battery for 450 days (and is still working). Device wakes up every 3 minutes, measures, sends over ESPnow and goes to sleep.
However, BLE is another beast, and I agree with @robinjansen51 - today BLE in ESP32 is far, far from NRFxxx or so.
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where to buy?!
please do a version with embedded antenna as well, maybe smd ceramic will be cool! this is very high end stuff!
does it have a battery recharge capabilty? I can't find it on the docs.
complimenti!
It will be available for sale in the coming weeks.
I'm already developing a version with the PCB antenna. There is no battery charging IC, because it depends so much on the type of battery you want to charge and other design choices. So I preferred not to put it in.
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Very nice work. Can it work with external Sensor Interupts in the classical way? I would be interested in a project like this with the ESP32 C3. And of course, what are the production costs of the samples?
My sensor i want to build is powered by a single Lipo Cell, and should be woken up by a sensor like a MPU6050 or LIS3DH and send some data via WiFi. At the moment I'm using the old ESP32, but even with a lot of DeepSleep and reduced Speed etc, a 2000mAh Battery lasts maybe 3 days, because the current draw is around 20mA the whole time
"Can it work with external Sensor Interupts in the classical way?" yep!
I recommend that you choose an ultra low power accellerometer, I suggest you look at the ones from ST and Bosch. The project you described is great for ELPM-S3!
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nice module.😀
Thanks 👍
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Is the RTC the RV3028-C7? I used this one in my projects before to do the same as shown here, just not on the ESP module itself. Powerful little thing. Only downside is the cost of the RTC if purchased in small quantities.
The price drops a lot if you order hundreds of units the rest of the power latch costs less than 50 cents.
@@SalvatoreRaccardi Yes, I've seen that, but for me personally I don't need hundreds of them and I don't sell anything on etsy or similar. For the power latch, I just used a MOSFET and used the RTC a bit out of spec, so it doesn't reset the interrupt line when programmed.
@@drstefankrank The power latch I developed is more complex because it has to handle multiple inputs and also the master input triggers the system if it detects a change in signal status, 0 to 1 & 1 to 0.
@@SalvatoreRaccardi I think it is also much better to do so. I did this hack only for my specific use case. (It's a plant soil sensor, woken up through the RTC every 3 hours and the ESP resets the interrupt when it's done. In addition to that only a button to manually trigger the RTC to wake up if needed.)
Your design needs to be way more universal and shouldn't rely on undocumented behaviour that may not work in the next revision of a used component.
Any plans when it will be available and are you shipping to the EU?
@@drstefankrank I plan to sell the first units(engineering sample) in the next few weeks.
Where can i buy one of these esp32?
Soon to be available for sale, this is an first prototype.
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No way! Cool I'll look into it if i got the budget for it
wait: did you reduce sleep current of S3 to nA or your project as such consumes nA while sleeping?
or another question: during the sleep, does S3 sleep or is powered off?
As I say in the video the power block that is designed to control the ESP32S3 power on. So I don't use the classic deep sleep mode of the ESP32S3. And during the deep sleep the ESP32 is powered off.
@@SalvatoreRaccardi thank you
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@@SalvatoreRaccardi thank you, I have mine very similar and I don't power off the esp32 but send to sleep
What rgb LED is in use? Is it controlled by the same code I‘d use for a ws2812?
Yes, WS2812B-2020.
@@SalvatoreRaccardi is it powered off the 3V3 rail and controlled by 3V3 signal?
@@oktopus1539 yeah, although the manufacturer recommends powering the led has a higher voltage. But it also works fine at 3V3, even espressif powers the led at 3V3😅
1. Music is way too loud (notice that biggest yt channels don't use music at all)
2. Need to have a version with built in antenna
3. Need to cost almost the same as original wroom modules
4. Castellated holes are way easier to solder
1. I don't feel the music is loud, plus I only use it in some parts of the video. In any case you can turn down the volume of the video.
2. I have to think about that.
3. It will be so by manufacturing many units.
4. It is actually very easy to solder, in any case I'm also thinking about solving this problem. I have to think about it.
@@SalvatoreRaccardi
1. music is very loud compared to your voice volume, especially the one at 4 minute mark
2. many battery powered projects are also small, they do not need external antenna on cable, that also makes cost bigger
4. qfn and castellated holes are easy to solder because you can inspect the joints on the sides, you can't do that with parts that have only contact patches underneath, not to mention it limits the ability to desolder it from the bottom(hot air) if you have 2 sided board with components underneath as you will blow them away.
I am interested in this project because of exact reasons you mentioned, esp32 is popular and easy to work with. I also wanted to use eink display. But 2 and 4 are dealbreakers for me. I need the smallest possible esp32 without anything on the board that is not necessary but with built in antenna.
Btw, what eink display is on video?
@@Kmnri
1. 2. ok
4. I will think about it for the next iteration of the design.
eink display by GooDisplay
What kind of display is this?
epaper display
thx
thing is... aa/aaa batteries are probably going to leak way before you run out of power
If you use high quality batteries like the Energizer Ultimate Lithium I think not. However, they are expensive :)
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Что можно собрать на этом контроллере?
Any smart battery powered devices, supercapacitors, solar panels.
@@SalvatoreRaccardi Thank you
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Is this thing somehow certified?
Yes of course, as soon as I develop the final version I'll proceed with all the certifications(CE, FCC...) and tests in specialized laboratories for RF.
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where to buy
This is a first prototype, devkits will soon be available for purchase to try out the module.
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@@SalvatoreRaccardi cool I'm excited
mio padre
That shield looks too pricey for a $2 module.
Consider that the ESP32-S3-WROOM-1-N8 module costs about 3.5 euros including VAT. ELPM-S3 is specialized for Extreme/Ultra low power applications, so it will cost more. And in the production stage, it is not certain that I'll use aluminum for the shield.
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@@SalvatoreRaccardi You don't need the shield until you get the CE/FCC certificate.
@@ergindemir7366 shield price 0.13euro x unit
all is nice except one thing: that project does NOT seem to be user friendly, not open source etc, So in fact it is only a... commercial of your business. So thank you but no, thank you
First of all, thank you for your comment. It is not user friendly because full documentation has not been published yet, also the version shown in the video obsolete(and user friendly ≠ open source). I made this video to share the progress we made during development; it is not a tutorial on how to make such a product. Also it is a product designed for industrial uses so you are for commercial use.
@@SalvatoreRaccardi that is ok, you should have just put the title: "COMMERCIAL - not to teach you anything but to let you know you can buy my thingis!"
Did I write that it is a tutorial?