How Octopath Traveler Changes Key
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- čas přidán 12. 12. 2018
- The full-on key change isn't all that common in modern music, and game music is no exception. So I was surprised and intrigued when I listened through Octopath Traveler's soundtrack and heard key change after key change popping up throughout the entire thing. The soundtrack ended up being a perfect example to use to talk about different ways that composers change keys, and that's what I explore in this video. Enjoy!
Game Score Fanfare's new octopath video: • How Octopath Traveler ...
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#OctopathTraveler #videogamemusic #musictheory - Hry
Don’t let this video distract you from the fact that Red Dead Redemption robbed Octopath for best soundtrack in the game awards.
game awards are just oscards aka just random bullshit wins
Celeste was in the running too which is another stellar soundtrack. Makes me want to check out the RDR2 soundtrack just to verify it's actually bullshit
RDR2 soundtrack is ok, but not in the same league as Octopath. It's the sound engineering, making tracks dynamically change as the action does, that impresses.
People are suckers for nice John Williams/Joe Hisaishi/Early Hans Zimmer pastiches, but it's important to realise that there's other ways to write music that can be very, very good, and arguably work better than Octopath's music does contextually. If all music for films or games was just the type that Sounds Nice in the classical sense, scores like Psycho's or Dunkirk's (to use very well known examples) wouldn't exist.
All the other nominees for Best Score/Soundtrack were better than RDR2
These key changes are UNPARALLELED
10/10 best comment
Modulaten if thou darest!
Take my thumbs up dammit
Wonderful! (Where's the nearest tavern?)
My boi cyrus
How to compose music for octopath traveler:
1. Find a key
2. Find a second key
3. Think of how to get from one to the other
4. Make melody and harmony
I mean... you may not be too far off from the truth. Composers often start with a vague plan or concept for their music before writing any notes.
@@crono303 Yeah, maybe, but I would think that a main motif and some basic harmony would be laid in place before the composer thinks about modulations.
1. Find a key
2. Find a second key
3. ???
4. PROFIT
@@pietermantel9498 I'm only speaking through my own experiences but I find it much easier to pick the keys first and then compose because it is much easier to work backwards from a target key then to blindly try to find it from the first chord.
@@sporeguy99 I do not disagree with having a key first, the thing I was making a joke about was that the composer supposedly also picks a second key first. I would definetly reccomend picking a key first.
Honestly, Red Dead 2’s soundtrack is pretty good, but it certainly isn’t THIS GOOD. Octopath got totally robbed.
This soundtrack is great, especially for casual listening. You can’t so much do that with RDR2’s soundtrack, but RDR2’s soundtrack compliments the game and it’s moments perfectly. That’s why it won
Big Red That’s why it deserved best audio design. Octopath’s soundtrack isn’t as well implemented in the game as Red Dead’s, but it’s songs are just better made. And best soundtrack should go to the game with the best soundtrack, not what game implements it the best, that’s for best audio design.
NinjaBunny audio design is for every sound in the game, not just music....
Big Red well I know that, but I just feel that best soundtrack should go to the best soundtrack, and a soundtrack isn’t made any better by how it’s used in a game. A game is made better by how it uses a soundtrack.
I don't watch award shows but I heard that robbery happen and I got so fucking pissed off. RDR2 really only won what it did because it was new and large.
I reckon you're right, that Nishiki purposefully leaned into key changes for Octopath. He's said that he wanted the melodies to stick in your head, so he tried to repeat them as much as possible. Changing the key just lets you repeat the same thematic material and thus makes it more familiar and earwormy!
both you and 8 bit posted about octopath at same time haha. was it planned?
Love your vids and style.
Ok I'm into this music stuff but holy crap this game looks awesome! And I love RPG's! How come I never heard of this game?!? 😮
You guys should collab more! I love the quantitative side that this channel focuses on, and I also love the qualitative side you largely focus on.
Not to mention how well it ties into the themes of the game itself. The melodies travel between keys as often as the party travels between towns!
It's so weird trying to think about this consciously. Music just seems like language to me, and these key changes (upward) are like saying "in fact, what's more.."
That's a really interesting way to put it!
But like in a good or bad way?
@@miltonmendoza9874 Usually good. Whereas a key change down feels like it's saying "you don't know the worst of it, bro.."
Octopath Traveler is like the most underrated thing ever. I know it sold well, but no one talks about it. Easy top 5 Switch games and one of the best games this generation. My personal goty and i played gow and rdr2.
It got the classic RPG flaw of *massive* required grinding, and the characters interactions are just not enough.
Otherwise, it's a great game, who deserves more.
I'm proud to love it since it has first been announced, and to still have the first demo on my Switch
From now on, I will exclusively refer to a ii-V7-I as a "funky turnaround".
specifically the v-I7-VI
I mean isn't ii-V-I the basis of most jazz chord progressions?
8:31
8bit: What do I mean by 'foreshadowing'? As I mentioned earlier..
Hah! Love it
"What do I mean by foreshadowing? As I mentioned earlier..."
YOU ABSOLUTE MADLAD, SLIPPED IT RIGHT PAST ME
This game got robbed of respect.
Pazzo, That Fool I played it Allllll summer
2:45 Yasunori Nishiki uses Key Change. It's super effective.
tarquinnff3 BREAK
13:04 OOF, that one gets me every time. I absolutely adore H’aanit’s theme and I remember how when I heard it for the first time in the game I just sat there listening to it for 5 minutes. Somehow it manages to imbue feelings of celebration, serenity, and melancholy all at once, and the way it just flows into itself so forcefully yet seamlessly puts a huge grin on my face every time.
11:08 Nishiki-san has lots of backdoor ii-V's up his sleeve! Love this soundtrack as well as your analysis :)
When can we get some side door ii-Vs?
I was expecting to see Sab here since she loves Octopath Traveller so much. Plus her Music Theory Videos are really good.
Have you ever considered doing any Music Theory Videos, Carlos?
@@GUIM1797 lmao
Are you going to do a jazz version of any songs he analyzed here?
Hold on a sec...this channel and logo look awful familiar...is there a community for the big name, super-talented video game music makers between channels, or is CZcams essentially "the community"? (You've done collaborations on your channel but I wonder if it's like the Vsauce, minutephysics, Veritasium (science guys) sorta collaborations that also exist). [Edit: Nvm made it to the end of the video for the shoutout lol]
3:14 Suprised Nishiki hasn't been arrested, he's been flirting with a minor after all
Lol
Shame shame, haha love it
LOL
Octopath Traveler has one of my favourite soundtracks in a long time.
4:30 I really like random exciting points in the video like this
The peak of this is the whole intro to the Cave Story video.
11:46
Scared the hell out of me ^_^'
I LOLd so hard right here
Even as a music graduate, your series of videos have been absolutely invaluable to me. I am looking to write music for games (even if it is simply ends up as a hobby or for small games amongst friends), and the spotlight you shine on so many of these different elements, in some cases teaching and in others even just providing a refresher, is so incredible and has helped me to consider the way in which I would treat my own compositions. Looking forward to your next video :)
Replying to an old comment, but you put it so perfectly I just had to say I'm in a similar boat and agree wholeheartedly, these videos are a goldmine for inspiration.
Common-tone modulation is another cool technique to use to change key. For example, in Twilight Princess’ Ordon Village music, the piece begins in C major and the melody of the A section ends on the tonic C. The melody of the B section also starts on a C, except the chord is Ab major, so the C is now acting as the major 3rd of the chord. One sustained or repeated note (often in the melody) is all that is needed to link two distant keys if the two chords share a common note.
It’s a really simple and effective way to modulate imo without having to use the pivot chord technique.
Chromatic mediants, my dude
chromatic mediants rock!
What do you mean this little change to the music "lays the emotion on *thick*"? *seconds later* "I'm not crying. You're crying."
I thought something was up when this and the Game Score Fanfare video on Octopath went up simultaneously! Two of my favorite game-music essay channels covering one of the better-designed games of the last year together? Sounds great!
TRESSA MAIN FOR LIFE.
Best girl!
Exactly what I've been looking for recently! Thank you 8-bit!!
I'm glad I'm not the only one that appreciates the power of adding the 2nd to minor chords.
For a more lush voicing, add another G an octave down from the first - it connects the harmony more firmly to the bass.
Ooh, I'll keep this in mind.
I know this is a very old comment but wanted to point out Hollow Knight also does the add2/add9 chords very well in pieces like Dirtmouth.
4:28 was the best thing that's ever happened in any of your videos.
ever.
moar plz.
everytime I hear tressa's theme I feel so nostalgic
Nintendo needs to give you a kickback, because you may have just sold me a Switch!
"We're just chugging along in D minor when BAM!" → subscribed
I clicked so hard I cracked my screen.
The scene at the end of Ophilia's last chapter had me crying my eyes out, and that was certainly helped along by the music. I'm tearing up right now just re-listening to her theme. The "cry chord" indeed.
Almost everything I just heard is so far over my head it hurts, but I can hear the changes in the music still. In fact I did just learn that the parts of songs I really like are called Key Changes, and they just feel...good!
I want to thank you for doing these videos. I've been writing music, and watching these videos has helped me so much in developing my writing. I've been rewatching all of your videos since my college roommate is making a game, and I'm writing the music for the game. I've been trying to make a sound track that fits the game well, and these videos have really helped me create that. Thank you so much! I can't wait until your next video!
@Tao Amanti We haven't worked on it in a while since he no longer goes to my school, but we will get around to it again in the future. We are going to call it Gun Caster. It will be dungeon crawler game with a large overworld. The setting is a fantasy world, but the main weapons are guns. Each race in the game will specialize in different types of guns, with different levels of magical capabilities depending on the race's exposure to magic.
Also, 2 years later, my musical style has changed so much that when I get back to it, I will rework most of the tracks I wrote for it back then. If you want to see what my music sounds like, I have posted on my channel for my fan-made soundtrack for the manga series *Tower of God*
Please, chap, can we get a video on what makes a song sound like Winter? Some pieces to draw from are Vivaldi's Winter, Megaman's Iceman, Blizzard Man, Cold Man, and Frost Man Stages, Harvest Moon's Various Winter Themes, Chill Penguin and Blizzard Buffalo stages from Megaman X, Earthbound's Winters, Freezeezy Peak from Banjo Kazooie, In a Snow-Bound Land from DKC2, Frosty Frolics from DKC3, the Himalayas Music from DuckTales, Singing Mountain from Chrono Trigger, etc. I would pay money for this.
Sleigh bells.
Right, he did one video on one song saying it's sleigh bells, but a bunch of songs I mentioned have no sleigh bells. There's more out there, and Winter Music sounds distinctly wintry, so what makes that wintry feel?
A lot of those songs might not use sleigh bells but they do use bell type instruments like xylophones with lots of echo/chorus effect added (often emulating the sound of ice) like in Cold Man's stage and a few others you mentioned. There is also the classic 'wind' fx or drone chord often added low in the mix like in the Ice Cave Theme in OoT, Blizzard Buffalo stage, or North Hemispheres in DKC. Long drone chords (often minor) make the song sound more desolate as you could imagine in a snow storm. I don't think a few of these themes sound very wintery though such as Chill Peguin or the Himalayas theme... maybe just your brain visulizing the level when you hear it.
You'll pay for it? Make it a Patreon request then.
I believe the answer is Dm7b5
I wish there was more of this game... more of these characters... I just want more... just give me an Octopath Traveler anime... or manga... or something, I’m not picky. This game just makes me feel emotions.
This channel makes me what to get back into writing music
MPT = 0.8. Octopath Traveller follows 8 characters.
Coincidence? Yeah probably.
And a modulation being a journey from a home to a new place, requires travelling. This could not be more perfect. Great video 8-bit Music Theory!
I think that he didn't even actually count them, based on the 'disclaimer'.
Although, the 8 would be an interesting coincidence.
The MPT is probably at least 1.8 tho
Some of the most beautiful music I’ve ever heard
I was actually thinking this was going to be a puzzle game revolving around using an octopus' many tentacles to walk a path.
Thanks for the through illustration, the score of this game is one of my all-time favourite definitely.
YES! i've wanted an Octopath video for a bit I love this games soundtrack!
Composer used Key Change. It was super effective!
that progression at 12:10 in Ophelia's theme has lived in my head for years
i think this is the only channel that gets me hyped from covering a video game ive never heard of. thanks a lot for the content bro. been appreciating it for a while :)
Thank you so much for this video - I've been waiting for this day ever since I picked up the game. This is hands down my favorite game soundtrack in a long time, and I'm definitely going to use this video as a reference for all of the musician friends I've been gushing about this game to.
Also, can we talk about how incredible the non-stop modulation is in "Decisive Battle II" for a sec? That piece blows me away with its construction - the constantly shifting tonal center, the use of pedal tones (especially right before sudden jumps), its massive, colorful journeys to return back to G minor from all sorts of crazy places, and the absolutely superb orchestration for maximum musical intensity.
Yes! Thank you for doing this video! I noticed how frequent the i minor to iii flat minor change was when I was playing around with some of the character themes and it was great learning more about it (and the other changes) in this video!
Great video, the editing is phenomenal, as well as you clear explanations!
This has been one of my very favorites from you. I would personally love to see more examples of modulations in the future! Huge fan :)
Its always a good day when 8-Bit uploads.
"Destination key" sounds, appropriately, like something I'd have to find in a JRPG.
Love that you covered Octopath!
11:20 Ophilia the Cleric's theme is one of the most moving character themes I think I have ever heard. It tells us so much about the character just by its clever musicality and I am absolutely blown away
Holidays got me distracted so missed this video on early post! That's an awesome analysis, really loved the explanation and approach on key changes!
I saw your video on weird time signatures and I liked it, so I went to your channel, and lo and behold, there was a video on the Octopath music! I love this soundtrack so much. I especially love how well each character's theme matches him/her. I can't even pick a favorite theme, they're all so beautiful.
8-Bit Music Theory finally doing Octopath? I clicked on this so fast.
I've watched this video at least 20-30 times.
Full on changed the way I write and think about music.
TY 8bit
This just hypes me up for Octopathe Traveler 2 and the mobile game that is coming out.
One of your best videos so far. So good! Perfect choice of topic for this OST.
I listen to the Octopath soundtrack almost every day! The music... it’s my favorite of any game in recent years!
I don't really understand the notes behind a composition. I'm just someone who really enjoys game music with leitmotifs and slight changes within a theme that represent the feelings of a character or other small nuances.
I'm pretty sure I didn't understand like 70% of what you were talking about but I still enjoyed the video. Thanks 👏
This video was really great! The humor was on point and the musical theory was spot on as always. Amazing job! :)
That key change in H'aanit, the hunter though. Great video BTW I'm actually learning about tonicization and chromatic chords in AP music theory currently this video was a great workout for what I'm learning about right now and was definitely a great touch on modulation which my teacher said we would be learning about here pretty soon. I love your content, keep up the awesome work.
golden nugget of wisdom to think of key changes just by the notes that change, can make tonal shifts much more subtle to change keys by introducing those notes as non harmonic tones or upper extensions on previously functional home key chords
This is seriously the best video-game music channel. I already know of all these methods from studying music theory, but you're just really good at demonstrating these concepts clearly while keeping the video incredibly engaging.
Damn I just subbed a few days ago, love this channel!
I literally subbed this morning I'm so happy lol
Welcome friends
It's one thing to be a musician, to have a relative knowledge of music theory and a ear for notes and the such... Having musical techniques explained is another altogether... I loved that video mate...it's amazing how instructive it is
Wow. This is like the perfect video for me right now. I have been looking for information on how to add effective key changes to my own music and simultaneously enthralled and inspired by the soundtrack for Octopath Traveler. Thanks dude!
You and Game Score Fanfare both uploaded videos on Octopath Traveler at the same time. Illuminati confirmed?
Not a Chance
Given 13:56, I don’t think so.
@@Hadaron it's funnier if I ignore that.
Not a Chance
Won’t deny that.
Even though I can barely read notes, and hardly understand these keychanges and minor and major chord talk, these videos are always fun to watch and I love learning something new about music through your analysis. Keep it up, these are great!
10:41 you can barely hear a hyrule field-like passage.
zelda is everywhere!
4:20 and BAM, we're in Fminor now! lol
OMG! YOU AND GAME SCORE FANFARE RELEASED AN OCTOPATH VIDEO AT THE SAME TIME!!!
Feels so good to have a game I requested get covered! Awesome work here, better than ever!
Ah sorry I didn't give you credit in the video!! I've seen a few different people request octopath, this was just the request that pushed me over the edge!
@@8bitMusicTheory No hard feelings! :D
Wow, your videos are so informative and well made. Thanks sooo much man!
I seriously have been in awe for a long time about the quality of the videos man! My chord game is so weak that i mostly just nod to what you say and enjoy the video😅 thanks for your awesome work!
Point of clarification after re-watching this: Olberic's theme uses a pivot chord as well. The Fm section is preceded by an E diminished, which serves as the ii chord in D natural minor, and the vii chord in F harmonic minor.
I was hoping someone else caught this. Diminished chords are the pivotiest of pivot chords because of how many different keys a diminished (esp. full diminished 7th) chord can resolve to
To put it simple, I purchased a Nintendo Switch and this game after listening to your analysis. I couldn’t resist the retro Square-RPG feel and specifically the amazing OST.
Octopath literally the only reason I bought the game was the soundtrack
@@StewNWT It's crazy how effective this soundtrack is!! It's the first time music has such an impact on my will to buy a game. Even the praised Final fantasy's music or Xenoblade didn't hit me this hard...
If I wasn't poor I'd have bought it a month ago!
Happy 2020, by the way.
Now this soundtrack is pretty fricking epic
13:30 Excellent transition, sir!
This is something I love about How Amusing!: the second part may have all those key changes that can be chained one after another, but the first part is hilariously disorienting:
It begins in Dm and maintains the whole chord for 11 bars, and at the end of the 11th appears an A7 that seems to be going to do a small flourish but suddenly you're met with a whole bar of Gm - G diminished that emphasizes the A chord as if it was to modulate to A major....... but nothing happens? There's no melody at bar 13...
Then the oboe does a small melody that's cut again by the fanfare, that this time becomes longer and emphasizing even more the A chord, which leads you to think it's going to do a grandiose melody but now it seems it's going to be in Dm, the usual key.
The music builds up but at bar 18 it stops one bar before it should have, as if something had happened... and there's only accompainment and you're like ????? what the hell's happenning?
Suddenly the next bar you're in F, which, being the relative major is normal tha... WAIT IT'S F MINOR, WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED? WHY IS IT MINOR? WHERE'S THE MAJOR?
And before you can process it, the Fm turns briefly into F major to act as the Dominant to Bbm, finally arriving to the proper music... only for it to last four bars and then launch itself down back again through that series of related chords 8-bit Music talked about.
This is actually a really cool analysis! I had never taken the time to pluck the piece apart as it were, but this piece certainly lives up to its name hahaha
I want to have my compositions used for video games someday. This is so informative and humbling. Amazing content as always.
Would have loved a video on Bravely Default and Second, but Octopath does just well too.
This channel is absolutely brilliant!
When I realized that Square Enix made this game, I knew from the start that the maker of Final Fantasy series will produce best soundtrack for this game as well, and oh boy my expectations exceeded to my point of fantasy!
Marvelous game and hooked so much!
Quick note, the bit you're talking about at 8:00 is *very* similar to bird changes, except instead of a ii-V-i where every i is also the next ii, it's a VI-V-I, where every I is the next VI. The coolest part about this particular one is that they trade off between bVI-V-i and vi-V-I, so the loop is longer, but each unit still feels pretty similar in terms of motion.
This isn't even super uncommon, but similar forms show up a lot more often in jazz.
Good point! It's always cool to see two completely different genres of music using the same techniques in completely different ways
@@8bitMusicTheory Japanese composers tend to use a lot of jazz progressions in their music, possibly because the music is more prevalent there. Even pop music tends to use 2-5-1 progressions a lot.
This video taught me more about music theory than not just my university theory classes, but also your other videos.
Not sure what it was, but something about the way you described things in the video made everything click so perfectly together.
Amazing video! This video for some reason makes me want to learn what these ideas mean!
Thank you so much for your wonderful video. Your videos motivate me on self-learning music theories!!
OMFG! I LOVE your videos, you just made my weekend
my brain hurts because music theory is complicated but what I can tell you is that this game’s soundtrack is gorgeous and I’m sad I only found this game now
Wonderful incite on this amazing soundtrack. I hyped myself on the soundtrack so hard before the game came out and I STILL listen to it like it's ear crack. Thanks for another great video!
Thank you for your videos. I improvise for Dance classes (ballet and modern) everyday with no formal music training. I've beat my head plenty of times reinventing the harmony wheel and was really yearning for a resource on methods of Key Changes a few years ago, so finding this now is a godsend. thank you.
Really great examples of ways to modulate! I'm going to have to check out the end credits music and see how all those keys relate and are prepared!
I can already tell OT's soundtracks are awesome and after watching your straight sharp analysis, I began to realize that this is not just awesome, it's grandiose!
Been a silent follower for a while but your content is top notch. Always look forward to your videos!
Awesome episode! I'll be watching this a few times! Thanks
I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.. but it sound intelligent. I like it^^ (My music skills are worse than fingernails on a chalkboard)
Sees that Tressa is the main party member throughout most of the video,
"Ah, I see you too are a man of taste."
Wow! That was a super good video! Thanks for doing that!
I don't understand most things explained in this video but I find it so entertaining to watch
As a piano student, talking about key changes just makes me think of the intro to "Kobito of the Shining Needle ~ Little Princess" from Touhou 14... And other pieces of course, but I really jumped in the deep end by picking up that piece as early as I did...