How to Maintain a Sourdough Starter
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- čas přidán 1. 08. 2024
- This video is for beginning sourdough bread bakers and answers many questions about maintaining your sourdough starter. This video covers the "daily maintenance" method, not the refrigerator, or "no discard" method. That will be covered in another video.
This video answers the questions:
- What type of flour should I use?
- What type of water should I use?
- What type of container should I use?
- Where should I keep my starter?
- What should I do with daily discard?
- and many more...
If you like this video, please check out my other videos and subscribe to my channel "The Sourdough Journey."
Thank you!
Tom Cucuzza
The Sourdough Journey
Cleveland, OH
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CHECK OUT THE NEW WEBSITE thesourdoughjourney.com
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Sections in this video:
0:00 Introduction
0:31 Daily Feeding Method
1:29 What type of container to use?
4:36 What is good feeding ratio
4:56 What type of flour to use?
7:20 What type of water to use?
8:12 Mixing
9:27 Should I use a clean jar daily?
10:43 What to do with daily discard?
12:25 Adding water and flour
15:27 Should I seal my starter jar?
17:22 Daily Feeding Demonstration
20:20 What does a strong starter look like? - Jak na to + styl
You are the Walter White of sourdough. You don’t live in fear of the baker, you are the one who bakes... The Heisenberg of saccharomyces cerevisiae. Big fan, by the way. Thanks for the vids.
Thank you! I take that as a huge compliment. 😊
exactly what I've been calling him!
Yes Walter White. Do you own a carwash?
I used to maintain a starter but I had 2 problems with it: 1> I hated the waste. I only make about 1 loaf a week and I'm not terribly consistent and feeding daily is wasteful. I can refrigerate, but I still have problem 2> We sometimes leave town for extended periods (last time was 6 weeks) and that's too long to let a starter go. So, I came up with a different solution. I maintained a starter for a while. Instead of discarding the excess starter at feedings, I'd spread it out on a cookie sheet, let it dry and then throw it in a blender to pulverize it. I keep it in a large pickle jar in my freezer. Once I filled up the pickle jar, I stopped maintaining my starter. Now, 2-3 days before I plan to make a loaf, I take a tablespoon of my powdered starter, a tablespoon of flour, and some water. I then feed it a tablespoon of flour twice a day (with enough water to keep a wet paste), until it's the final feeding and I do a normal feeding as he describes. Works every time. And when I left town for 6 weeks, I came back and was able to bake my first loaf just 3 days later.
Using just a tablespoon of the dried starter at a time, I've only used about half the pickle jar in the past year. So it's a really efficient system. I figure once I get down near the bottom of the jar, I'll just go back to maintaining a starter and drying the excess until I get restocked.
That is a great approach. Thanks for sharing.
Brilliant!
I left rye starter in my daughters fridge for 6 months. it was watery on top and had a grey layer. I poured off the water, rinsed the top of the starter with water a couple of ties and then spooned off all the grey starter. I then started feeding it white bread flour for the next three days with no discards. We had great bread!!!! I too have dried my starter and it works well. I have not blended it. that is a good idea!!
When you’re adding tablespoon of flour (whole wheat??) and water, I assume there is no discard, right?
@@craigt6007When reconstituting it? No, no discard. You can use whatever kind of flour you want. I use whole wheat. Just make sure it's unbleached if it's white.
Your videos just keep getting better, but I'm a few years behind! Thank you for all this encouragement and teaching. I am feeling a lot more confident due to your help! Thank you, thank you!
Thanks 🙏
You are the bee’s knees! Thank you for walking us through this process. :)
Thank you. Also check out my website for more info on this topic. thesourdoughjourney.com/faq-starter-maintenance/
Your videos are so clear and informative. I've been baking with sourdough for many years and I still have learned a lot from you. thank you.
Thank you for the feedback!
THANK YOU!!! I love all your videos so much and I’m extremely grateful for you taking the time to share your expertise.
Thank you! More details here too. thesourdoughjourney.com/faq-starter-maintenance/
I likethe subject matter I. E. You discuss points about maintaining the starter etc that no other you Tube vidio addresses. A lot of questions answered here. Thank you.
Thank you so much for the feedback. I am a relatively new sourdough baker and I really struggled with many of the videos I was finding, so I created this series "for beginners, by a beginner." Some of my videos are long, but it is a different teaching/learning style than many of the 8-minute vidoes out there. If you could learn sourdough baking in 8-minutes, everyone would be doing it, and doing it well!
I am so glad I found your channel. I'm trying to learn by following the Tartine book, but it's been impossible to understand without your videos. I haven't had a successful bake yet but after your tutorials I'm sure I will.
Thank you! Good luck and let me know how it goes.
Nice video on maintenance of the starter ‼️
Thank you.
Thank you so much. Very helpful for me
Thanks! Also check out my website for more info on starter maintenance. thesourdoughjourney.com/encyclopedia/
I love this style of teaching 👍👍👍
-subscribed... 😊
Thank you.
Thanks for the tip about not throwing discard down the sink. I did used to do that and then run the garbage disposal, but I've moved to a new home with no disposal. I'm not sure if I would have poured starter down the sink with water running, but I suspect I would have. My son's a plumber, and he'd kill me.
Yes, that is a bad idea.
Thank you - your sourdough series is just what my starters needed. I also use the white plastic lids for my starter but those lids are not air or water tight. Also, Ball has come out w a similar (but gray) plastic lid, supposedly airtight, but isn't - making either lid perfect for sourdough starters although not for pantry storage. I highly recommend the 2-part lid that comes w your mason jars, for your pantry storage.
I agree. The new lids for the Ball jars are worse than the old ones. Really horrible.
Honestly, right to the point videos are the best kind of video, thanks a lot for the help, my sourdough starters been weak and your videos are clearing up a lot for me
Thank you for the feedback.
Awesome! Thank you this was very helpful.
Thank you. Also check out my new website. Lots of good info there on starter maintenance. thesourdoughjourney.com/faq-starter-maintenance/
@@thesourdoughjourney Thank you, I totally will do that. I was gifted Chad Roberts Book and this has really helped me with some of the ambiguity. Cheers!
Really enjoyed your video. I subscribed.
Thank you. 🙏
I leave my starter on the kitchen counter and feed it twice a week if I'm not baking that week and 3 times if I am baking. I make sure I feed my starter two days in a row before I bake my sourdough loaves and it all seems to work. A very good video!
Thank you. That is a good approach also. It depends how quickly your starter can bounce back when it is hungry. Some do better than others.
If your feeding twice a week only how much do you feed it? Please give some ratios. Interesting
Thank you
You're welcome
Brilliant experiments! Now, being a novice with ADD, I have high Hopes for my relationship with my starter!
Thanks! Also check out this new video on similar topic. czcams.com/video/sFO532C3EAM/video.html
I cannot thank you enough for such instructive videos (all the ones from your channel). It really walks you through my most common questions regarding bulk fermentation (most complex aspect in my mind), and a long etc. Now that heat is coming up in Spain, room temperature won’t be a problem although it usually is during the winter. Do you normally use your oven as a proofing chamber, or have you considered building your own to simplify the process of having to heat the container, boil water, etc? Thank you again!
So far I have had success with my oven as a proofing chamber. Sometimes with just the light on. Other times with a bowl of boiling water. I looked into creating something using a warming mat but it was too complicated and wasn't any better than the oven. I probably will build something eventually because I am inventive and will keep coming up with ideas.
@@thesourdoughjourney Makes sense. Thank you again for your videos! Seriously, They're the best I've seen so far in terms of sorting out common questions out there. I also really like how structured they are. Most videos (or even books I've read) simply jump over crucial steps that make finding out what went wrong through the process a big headache.
Thank you so much for the informative video. I was wondering if you could comment or make a video on how to make a starter stronger? You mentioned in your bulk fermentation video that a weak newer starter would result in underfermentation, which is what I suspect I have. My starter (70% hydration) doubles in 12h ish, which takes way longer than what you showed. Thank you!
I am working on that video today - “How to Strengthen a Weak Starter.” I’ll post it this week.
The Sourdough Journey looking forward to it!
Your videos have been incredibly helpful. I have my first bread using my own starter on a bulk rest at the moment. I'm hoping it turns out well. I bake bread regularly, but first time from starter. My question is this: Is there a difference from saving my starter that I used to create the leaven (Tartine method) or saving the excess leaven? I have both fresh at the moment and would like to keep it going. Thanks!!!
Thank you! No difference. You can even combine them. I’m not sure why the Tartine recipe calls for making 2x the starter needed for the recipe. Most people reduce that in half and just make the amount needed. The idea is that you keep the leaven leftover and that becomes your new starter (and you’d throw away the old starter). Maybe that’s what they do in a bakery where they bake every day, but it doesn’t make sense for home bakers.
I made my starter for thr first time 2021 .. then i broke my arm very bad had surgery..now ive just got to use my arm again but problem is my starter dough has been in the fridge asleep 18months .. will i throw it out or can i use it please .. ive just found your wonderful videos & I'm so happy of how you explained them.. but im still unsure if i can use my sleeping starter after all this time while i was recovering ..
Thank you so much
Jenny
You can probably recover it. Scrape off the dark stuff on top and scoop out 30g of the good stuff. Put it in a fresh jar with 30g flour and 30g water. Follow the method in the second half of this video. czcams.com/video/6GWRkoYo5A4/video.html
Also check out this video to avoid common mistakes. czcams.com/video/sFO532C3EAM/video.html
I am finding this channel fascinating.
I have been feeding my starter for some time now and I believe it is established and ready to go.
Yesterday, I fed it with a 1 - 1 - 1 protocol and it doubled within 6 hours at a room temp of 21c. I fed it 25g strong white and 25g Rye. Today, over 24 hours later, it is still standing in the jar at the same level.
What do I do now?
Thanks. Do you normally feed it rye flour, or is that something new?
I have done it twice as a rsponse to what I perceived was a stalled growth on the two occasions. @@thesourdoughjourney
I am a beginner at sourdough starters. So far on day 8 my starter looks good but little slow. I will let it rest over night but what do you recommend on day 9? You have excellent videos on youtube. thank you for your help.
Yes. Wait 48 hours if not active, but not longer.
Great video. My starter doubles twice per day.. and when it begins to fall, I discard and feed.. do I not need to do that when I see the fall happening? If you keep the discard to use in other baking, can you leave this on the counter? or would you recommend the fridge?
It depends. If you are just doing “maintenance,” you’re just keeping the starter alive and it can go with one feeding per day. If you’re trying to strengthen it or planning to bake with it, it is sensible to feed sometime after the peak, before it goes completely flat. But I don’t believe that is required for daily maintenance. If you keep your discard, I recommend refrigerating it. It it will keep fermenting and turn to alcohol/vinegar If left at room temp.
Hi Tom, Thank you for all your time and entertainment on sourdough, very informative. Quick question, I was lucky enough to be gifted a sourdough starter from San Francisco and boy is it ever an active little bugger. He more than doubles in size within 3 hours (I feed him 25 gr starter/50gr water/50gr flour white/whole wheat twice a day). When do I feed this guy? It seems like he is needing food within 8 hours (flat and this morning foaming). I usually wait tell he's flat with a few bubbles left. I only bake say 1 or 2 times a week. Thanks for you help!
If you bake once a week, I’d keep it in the fridge, and take it out a day early.
If you bake twice a week, I’d keep a small amount, feed it twice a day with a high feeding ratio and try to keep it cool, but not in the fridge.
Thank you!@@thesourdoughjourney
@@thesourdoughjourney I only bake once a week so you said keep it in the fridge.
Can you describe the process from the point you take it out of the fridge till it’s ready start making bread with? Feed once? Or thought I read about trying to fit in three feedings before baking? Would love more information on that.
Who sells that little thermometer & does it have a particular name? Your videos are great!
Thanks! You can find all the products I use here. thesourdoughjourney.com/products/
Tom I keep my starter in the fridge, so it's hard to tell if it's very active or not. Do you have any information
on refrigerated starters? Thanks
I have not done any videos on refrigerated starters. Most people who keep their starters in the fridge take them out a day or two before baking and do 2-4 feedings to refresh the starter. Other people just use it straight from the fridge, but I don't believe this would ever be at full potential strength. It will still make great bread but will just take longer to ferment and may not have as powerful of an ovenspring.
Hello. Thanks to you I made my first sourdough loaves today. It turned out fantastic. I was so proud of my Starter. It worked great. I have a question. I wanted to make one Batard and one Boule shape. I proofed them in their respective rattan bowls but when I baked the Batard, it basically took on the same shape as the boule after baking. I used a Lodge cast iron dutch oven and it seems any shape dough I put in, they all take the shape of the Dutch oven. How do you keep the different shapes? Other than that and it wasn't really a problem, the bread was very good. Thank you again for all your help.
Thanks. You need to work on tighter shaping, or you may be overproofing your dough, so it is not holding shape when baking. You should be able to bake a batard in a round Dutch oven without it losing shape. Some helpful content here. thesourdoughjourney.com/faq-shaping/
Thank You Again
Hi! I am maturing a very active starter, I’m on day 12. I am wondering once it’s ready to use and I feed it and wait for peak to pour into a recipe, what do you do then with the starter? Once I’ve taken out what the recipe needs, do I feed my starter and leave it on the counter until tomorrow and just continue maintenance feedings until ready to bake again? I haven’t seen anyone explain what they did with their starters after they took out what a recipe calls for. Also, in your daily maintenance, it’s just every 24 hrs that you give it food right? Even if it’s past peak and hungry looking? Thanks, I’ve been binging your channel and I’m obsessed! It’s giving me more confidence to make my first loaf knowing the math and science behind it all!
Sorry for the delayed reply. Yes, after you use a portion of your starter in a recipe, feed it again and keep going with your normal schedule. Some people also take a small amount of their starter and make a leaven (an offshoot if the starter) specifically for the amount needed for baking.
Do you have a video or can you explain the difference between daily feeding vs feeding before a bake? If you feed daily 1:1:1, what do I feed if you are going to bake? Or is that when you build the leaven the night before?
Check out the starter preparation tab. thesourdoughjourney.com/encyclopedia/
I don't feed my starter each day because it is sometimes 4 weeks or more in-between bakings. I will put extra flour in to make a thick paste and then put it in the back of my fridge. it is a slow ferment and has a lot of flour to 'eat'. then when I need it I warm it up and take out 50 grams and feed it equal parts from there. takes 2-3 days to reactivate.
That method works.
I tried sourdough pancakes and that was a disaster. I’ve never made pancakes before so that didn’t help either. I ended up trying sourdough chocolate chip cookies and that worked out really well for me!
I’m not a big fan of discard recipes, but if you’ve found something that works, keep going!
How do you keep your starter that warm just sitting on the counter? I’m at 22 degrees Celsius
Warmest spot in house (it’s March in Canada.
I have the woodstove on and the starter is setting up on top of high bookshelf up near the ceiling)
A thermostat controlled warming mat is a great tool for cool kitchens. This one is large enough for your starter and bowls of dough. Cozy Bread Warming Mat (GEN3) | Thermostat Controlled Portable Bread Proofer (10" x 21") | Love What You Bake - Proof Dough, Keep Baked Goods Warm, Fermentation a.co/d/gUSAwDR
Hey Tom, this all makes sense. I am a bit confused though. In one of your masterclass videos you mentioned peak to peak feeding. My starter peaked at around 4 hours after feeding. So if I feed peak to peak, I’ll be feeding multiple times a day rather than once a day! Please can you help?
Good question. Peak-to-peak feeding is only recommended for limited times (e.g., two to three days) to periodically strengthen a weak starter, not for routine maintenance. Normal maintenance should only require a once per day feeding. If your starter is “starving” by the end of the 24-hour feeding cycle, then increase your feeding ratio (e.g. 1:2:2) rather than increasing the frequency. The higher feeding ratio provides more food for the starter to make it to the next feeding.
Oh I see! That makes perfect sense. Thanks Tom! Have a nice day.
do you need to pour off the clear (ethanol?) liquid before you keep the 50g? Also good to know the discard can go on the compost heap
Yes, I pour it off.
On your video about how to strengthen a weak starter, I think you said yours peak after 4 hours when fed 1:1:1. Even so, you still maintain it by feeding once a day 1:1:1? If so, you'd be feeding it 20 hours after peaking. After how many hours does it start to fall? The reason why you don't increase the feeding ratio is because you think it doesn't matter feeding that long after peak or because you think it's actually beneficial (more than feeding right at peak or shortly thereafter would be)?
Good questions. The.1:1:1 feeding ratio is really my minimum daily maintenance feeding. It works even if it peaks after four hours as long as it is not totally starving 20 hours later (flat but still bubbling vigorously).. That means there is still food left and 1:1:1 is sufficient. That is really the most important part of determining the minimum daily feeding ratio, not so much the peak or falling times, but the end state before re-feeding. If your starter is starving after 24 hours it will weaken over time so you then need to increase the feeding ratio. I closely inspect my starter each morning before feeding. If the weather is warm and 1:1:1 is not enough (as evidence by starving starter the next morning), I’ll increase to 1:1.25:1.25 for example.
When I am getting ready to bake I will either do 1:2:2 feeding or feed every 12 hours (the day before baking).
Some people mistakenly believe it is helpful to let your starter “get real hungry” (by starving it). This doesn’t make sense. It does not have fat stores or a stomach or eat more when it is hungry. When a starter is hungry/starving, it goes dormant or dies.
2 Questions-
1. I've strengthened my starter and it seems pretty perfect. My question is about maintenance using the refrigerator for help. If I want to make bread the next day but want the starter in the refrigerator overnight ... when (how much time) after feeding is the best time to put in the refrigerator? And the next morning how long should I let it sit out (72 degrees) before feeding followed by bread making?
2. Following your instructions the starter is very thick. Is this normal?
Feed your starter, and as soon as it peaks, put it in the fridge. It’s fine to use for the next 24 hours or so. It does not need to come up to room temp to use in recipe, If your starter is too thick, add 10g extra water. Some flours are thirstier than others.
Hello-
Great videos. Just starting my starter journey. But I have a couple questions regarding using the starter. Is there a specific stage that the starter should be at when you actually use it?? I’m initially using starter to make pizzas. Depending when I make the pizza dough during the day, the starter could be at any of the six stages you mention. So if it needs to be at a particular stage when being used, how do you adjust starter to match time when dough is to be prepared. My second question has to with quantity of starter. Most videos I’ve seen have very small quantities of starter being maintained. What if you’re preparing multiple pizzas (or loaves of bread) that require more starter than you typically have available. I assume you’d need to keep some minimum quantity of starter. Can the starter material you discard before each feeding be used to start a second, third, fourth, container of starter?? Thanks!
Thanks. You always want to catch your starter near its peak when adding it to your dough. You can control the time to peak by controlling the temperature, and/or the feeding ratio.
For basic maintenance it makes sense to keep a very small quantity. Over time, I’ve reduced my daily maintenance quantity to about 50g.
The day before you plan to mix your dough, you need a plan for bulking up the quantity of your starter. This is often referred to as “a leaven” which is simply an offshoot of your starter used in a batch of dough.
Your discard is essentially, “spent starter” that has consumed most its food source and is quite acidic.
Check out by website for more info, especially the FAQs in my “sourdough encyclopedia.” Thesourdoughjourney.com
Hello, I began my started following your step by step recipe but I’m watching this video now, do I change the 25g starter, 75g flour, 75g water to 50gs of each? I’m a bit confused. Thank you in advanced
For creating a new starter, follow the other video exactly? This video is for ongoing maintenance of an established starter. For ongoing maintenance, you can use many different feeding ratios. When creating a new one, follow,the other steps exactly.
Am I supposed to feed my starter (I’m on day 4 and following the King Arthur recipe) with unbleached all purpose flour
Or do I need to do what you mentioned of half whole wheat and half unbleached all purpose bread flour?
Or Do I need to use bread flour instead?
If you’re creating a new starter, check out this page. thesourdoughjourney.com/faq-starter-creation/
Do you have a video where one can keep starter in the Fridge?
I do not, but there is some content here. thesourdoughjourney.com/faq-starter-maintenance/
I bake bread with my discard. I just pour it in unfed but room temp. But in this bread i use little yeast as levening agent, or i use it in scones with baking soda. The good thing is that i get a good.tart yeastbread
That's a good use for extra starter.
@@thesourdoughjourney Yes, and because of the much faster proofing times of the yeast, the gluten network does not get that damage by the sour discard starter!
@@thesourdoughjourney There's a difference between "extra starter" and discard though, isn't there? Especially early on in the process the discard is not safe to keep or to use - so I learned in your video. At that point its a reaction with bad bacteria which are being got rid of, so I think (at least I thought) you recommend not using any part of the starter or keeping the discard before day 7 (which is 7x24=168 hours from start). Is that correct? Thanks for being clear and answering questions new comers haven't even thought of!
You don’t want to save or use your discard for the first 7 days.
Hi Chef,
What is the good ratio of feed when I kept my starter in fridge...It's almost a week and I want to feed it .
Thank you
Most people do a 1:1:1 or 1:2:2 feeding once a week for fridge maintained starter. The best way to determine is to assess how the starter looks before the next feeding. If it is really flat and hoochy (clear alcohol on top), then increase the feeding ratio next time. Until the starter can make it a week without looking like it is starving,
@@thesourdoughjourney Thank you Chef...
So if your starter is peaking at around the 4 hour mark, are you feeding it again then once you use/discard so it doesn’t reach that starving state? Wouldn’t you be feeding your starter every 4 hours around the clock essentially?
You only need to feed it at peak when you are getting ready to use it for baking. Here is additional info on this topic. thesourdoughjourney.com/faq-starter-maintenance/
I just got a strong starter that goes 1X within 4 hours after a 1:1:1 feeding ratio, which playlist would you recommend me to watch in order to bake my own first sourdough loaf of bread. Thank you and best regards.
This is the best series for beginners. 01. Tartine Bread - Step-by-Step: Beginner Mistakes and Tips. czcams.com/play/PLMNnFRtsaxxyCiC0IQjqb-pH3zRpU4LEm.html
@@thesourdoughjourney thank you very much.
What is the brand of your spoonula? Trying to find a similar one but they're a bit hard to find that arent huge on Amazon
The brand is GIR.
GIR: Get It Right Premium Silicone Mini Spoonula, 8", Black www.amazon.com/dp/B07BLNTCHK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_63VxFbTEH364A
believe me I live in a country where there's no internet shopping services, and once I was shopping locally and noticed this spoonula on a shelf , I jumped over all the women ahead of me and grabbed it with both hands letting them all wondering who the hell is this guy ! it's a great tool that my wife fell in love with it too. thanks a lot
I keep a small amount starter in the fridge and feed it once a week. When I want to bake a loaf (which is about twice a week) I use some of that starter to make a levain. I’m starting to think this might not the best way to maintain a stater because most people don’t do this…they keep it on the counter in a warm place. Is there potential problems with my method?
That method works too.
What is the optimal time to feed my starter? At peak? Or after peak, like after its rise and fallen?
New starter or mature?
How about for a mature starter?
So even in the Maintenance phase, you still discard at every feeding correct?
Correct.
I have been working with sourdough for a few years but I am now using Einkorn whole grain not the all purpose and I am having a terrible time making a loaf that is a little lighter than a brick. Any suggestions?
Einkorn has lower gluten content than other flours so it is very hard to work with, especially at 100%. I'd suggest looking up an Einkorn-specific recipe. I believe there are some on the Jovial site and on The Perfect Loaf website. Good luck!
@@thesourdoughjourney Thank you. I'm enjoying your videos, very detailed info. I'm sharing on my social media.
You ask, where the 80% discard of sourdough for maintenance comes from, contra your 1:1:1 recommendation. See p.46 of Tartine Vol.1, though Chad adds not to worry too much about these ratios, his point being to pay attention to "behavior" of the starter.
Yes, thank you. I realized this was a mistake after I published this.
I have a question to ask you: after a long long time, thanks to your videos, I’ve started again my sourdough starter. I’ve had it from time to time, always kept in fridge but at the end, there was always something that went wrong: either the starter was rising properly but the acidity was too much, or the taste was ok but it wasn’t rising at all or ridiculously slowly. With your method, at 21 degrees and with ratio of 1:1:1, it rises perfectly plus the taste is fantastic. Only problem: it doubles every 3 and half hours which could be a problem with a daily schedule of life. What should I do? Thanks a lot
It is a challenge. There are two options. You can discard more and give it a higher feeding ratio (1:5:5 or higher). That will slow it down by about 4-5 hours. And/or cool it down. Keeping it cooler is really the only way to slow it down. Depending how often you bake, I would figure out a method where you can refrigerate it on days you are not baking. That’s what I do. If I’m baking once a week, I keep it in the fridge for 5-6 days at a time, then I take it out the day before I plan to bake and give if a few “peak to peak” feedings, with the last one being the leaven build for my dough.
If I need to mix the starter in the morning and have it ready to go for mixing in the evening, after work, you can also feed it in the a.m. and out it in a bowl of ice in the morning. After the ice melts, it will come up to room temp and start rising. It is just like delaying the feeding for about 6 hours. Using more or less ice can adjust the “start” time.
@@thesourdoughjourney thank you so much. I’ve been retarding the fridge step because I’ve had so many problems which I don’t have at all with room temperature 😬
When do I start the 1:1:1 ratio to maintain my starter after I’ve been using the 1:2:2 to create my starter
You can stick with 1:2;2 if it works for you.
I recommend starting with 1:1:1 once your starter is “mature” (10-14 days). But it all depends how quickly it rises and falls. If it falls flat before the next 24 hour feeding, then go up to 1:2:2 etc.
Hello 👋 I have a question I’ve been having a hard time finding an answer for. My apt is generally pretty cool this winter, especially when I’m at work & turn heat off. I’ve been mixing my starter with 85F water & I’m generally using the kitchen in the day time & it can reach 72-74F. My starter will double in size in 4-5 hrs. But I work an evening shift & the temp is dropping to about 66-68F. When I come home my starter has dropped but is not dropping completely in 24 hrs, I’m assuming this is because temp. Will feeding my starter before it drops completely negatively effect my starter?
No. As long as you feed it past peak, it won’t hurt it. “Falling. is hard to predict and generally unimportant.
Thanks! I was concerned about over feeding. This answer helps a lot.
Thank you I have learned SO MUCH!! Question..I am on day 4 and just discovered you. I started with 30g water/30g wheat. I have feed my starter 2x (and based on my new learning from both ur videos, should not have feed) I won’t feed today bc no bubbles (and like you say watch the bubbles). At this point, when I am ready to feed, can I change my grams and go from the 1-1-1 of 30g to a 1-1-1 of 50g? Or do I just keep at the 30g?
Check out my video How to Create a Sourdough Starter. And helpful tools here. thesourdoughjourney.com/faq-starter-creation/
Tom, I did watch that video but I do not recall you mentioning one can go from low grams up to higher grams. I interested to know if it’s safe to increase the grams or will it hurt the starter.
You can always increase the total quantities as long as you keep the proportions the same.
@@thesourdoughjourney ok thank you!!
I was searching for the refrigerator method video but only see the long hold video? Is there one? Thanks!
This one? czcams.com/video/DDOfIAgyCy8/video.htmlsi=dF7gGexdkE-g2vQV
Sorry, for starters maintenance in fridge I do not have a video yet. Coming soon.
One question I have is if there are any chemist out there: What if your water is rather acidic well water, is this damaging in any way to the starter? I've been doing pan style sourdough for over 20 years and have only gotten into the free standing loaves during this year of the pandemic. I'm always trying something new, trying to learn the parameters of sourdough. This year I'm watching a lot of CZcams video. So, one thing I would throw into the mix is this: I've gone from canning jars to 4 oz seasoning jars for mixing my starter. I'll usually measure 3g of starter to 12g of water and a mix of 12-13g of whole meal and all purpose flour. My whole meal is usually whole wheat flour, but could be spelt, einkorn, or sometimes teff, even. When I go to mix, (what you call the leaven), I'll switch to an 8 oz seasoning jar and mix something like 12g starter, to 50g water, to 50 grams whole wheat and bread flour mix. I sometimes will bump it up to a 1-5-5 ratio, or even 1-10-10 ratio. This is supposed to ensure that your starter will not become so acidic as to damage it's self. I think I've witnessed this a few times, too. I'm now using a seed mat and a control thermostat within a insulated cardboard box. I'm keeping the starter at between 68-72F. I'll proof my dough in the box, as well. My starter has become really happy since I started this a few months back, and what I really like about it, is how little flour that I'm now wasting. Just wanted to share. Have fun sourdough lovers!
Good questions. You can buy chemical additives to adjust the pH of your water. You will find these at hydroponic garden suppliers.
@@thesourdoughjourney I'll look into that Tom. Thanks.
My starter doubles in size but doesn’t shrink even after sitting for 24 hours. Is anything wrong? Do I need to make some changes?
Rising is more important than falling. Some just don’t fall for a while. Nothing wrong with that. Mix a wetter mix and you’ll see it fall, but it’s not necessary. More water doesn’t change the strength one way or another.
to shortcut and save your time , allow me to ask : in this tutorial you just mentioned putting the starter in the fridge as part of the maintenance , so I have a full day schedule now and barely have time to feed my 3 starters, can I put them in the fridge after a convenient feeding ratio and then feed them once a week or whenever hooch is created?
thank you so much , I'm the kind of guy who never pushes the like button before watching a video, but now with the few videos I studied, I push the button without watching at all , thank you for the information you deliver in your videos, I have many questions about my own experience with my starter that I'm sure you've answered them in one of your tutorials, but pardon my slowness that may cause a repeating question , I'm still diving in this playlist so excuse my questions.
Thank you. This video is specifically for daily maintenance at room temp. For fridge maintenance, most people just do what I show here about once per week.
Prior to baking, many people will take their starter out of the fridge a day or 2 before baking and give it 2 or 3 feedings at room temp to wake it up. But others use their starter directly from the fridge into their recipes. This method works but sometimes the bulk fermentation times will take longer if the starter is not at full strength.
@@thesourdoughjourney Thank you very much for the clarification,it's so helpful, sincere regards.
If I feed my starter 1.1.1 every 24 hours, I can’t seem to time it for starting the baking process at 9:00 a.m. The starter is fed about 9:00 p.m. By morning it has gone down. I tried various percentages. I used 1.5.5 and put it in a cooler with ice pack, but it still has gone down, albeit less. I am worried about using it past peak. My kitchen is 68*F. I can create warmer (75*) or cooler (64*) using my heat lamp/cooler with ice pack. Do you have any suggestions on how to meet this timeline? Also, I use KA organic bread flour 50% and Bob’s Redmill organic whole wheat 50% to feed. I use 30 grams starter and feed.
I should clarify…my starter isn’t down all the way after 12 hours. It more than triples overnight and is just starting to go down by 8:00/9:00 am.
Use a high feeding ratio at night (1:10:10) and out the jar in a bowl of ice. It will delay the start time by about 4 hours.
My starter is two weeks old, I tried the 1:1:1 method and my starter would be super watery by the 12 hour mark. I want to feed once a day. So I moved to 1:2:2. It now has that pancake consistency when I go to re-feed. I am not seeing a rise. It gets bubbly on the surface but not throughout. My water is chlorinated so i boil it. I use KA unbleached white bread flour.
Is there anything I should be doing other than “keep going” to help my rise?
Thanks for the video!
I always get better results with a 50/50 mix of bread flour and whole wheat flour.
@@thesourdoughjourney okay, I’ll give what I’m doing now a go for a few more days and if nothing, I will try adding the wheat flour. When I do this, should I try the 1:1:1 instead of 1:2:2? Thank you for the quick response!
Always start with 1:1:1 and see what happens.
@@thesourdoughjourney I’m nervous because I thought I nearly killed it when I did 1:1:1 but perhaps the wheat will make all the difference.
Thank you!
White flour means all-purpose flour?
Can you use unbleached or gluten free flour?
I use bread flour and whole wheat flour. Always unbleached.
It is possible to make a gluten free starter but I don’t have experience with that. It is more difficult that creating one with wheat flour.
Hi, I have a doubt : if I put my starter on a bread dough, can you confirm that we can consider that as discarding ? I feed my starter (created at the beginning of the year) 1.1.1 every 24h and it is always in my kitchen at room temperature. I bake 2 to 5 times a week. When I don't bake, I discard, but on consecutive baking days if I have 150g of starter and put like 100g in a dough, after I leave my starter on the counter, and the next day if it is a baking day I won't discard (because 100g were put in the bread dough) and feed it at 1.1.1. If not a baking day, I discard 1/3 and feed it at usual 1.1.1. Am I doing things right ? (so much contradictory information everywhere). Thank you so much a lot for all your quality content ! (and sorry for my english mistakes)
Yes, you are correct. If you are using some of your starter in dough, you do not need to additionally discard more. You’re doing it right.
@@thesourdoughjourney great, thank you so much for your reply
Hello. Just a short question. I am making a rye starter. You already told me that the float test doesn't work with rye, so how do I know when I can start bread? I have only 3days, but it doubles every 12hours and has bubbles all around, but not on top. It is a thick starter,😁. Thanks for your help. I think I'll name it for my mother😁😁😁😇
Thanks. Any new starter usually takes about 7-10 days to get established. The activity you see early on is a “false rise” as various bacteria and microbes are burning off of the flour. It will usually go quiet around days 4-5, then gradually start showing more activity. And you should see it peaking in activity or height in about 6 hours after feeding.
Check out my video “how to create a new starter,” and that will explain the process over the first 9 days.
@@thesourdoughjourney Again thank you so much!
@@thesourdoughjourney Iwill right now!
So once it’s active why do you switch from 1-2-2 to 1-1-1?
1:2:2 is for initial strengthening. Once it is “established, the 1:1:1 is the “maintenance baseline” you want to start with, then assess how. Your starter behaves with that feeding. If 1:1:1 works on a 24 hour cycle, stick with it. If your starter rises and falls in 24 hours with 1:1:1, then go up to 1:2:2. The optimal feeding ratio for a mature starter is situational. But I recommend stating with 1:1:1.
What do I do on day 9?
If you followed the “how to create a starter” video, you should discard and feed 1:1:1 or 1:2:2 depending on how warm your kitchen is. If it is warm do 1:2:2 each day. It should rise and fall, but not be starving, by the next time you discard and feed (24 hours).
“ say my name “ lol
Haha. Yes.
Why is my starter not growing? I just made a new one with equal parts whole wheat flour and filtered water. After a few hours it hasn’t grown at all and there is hooch forming? I feel like I’m doing everything right so I’m confused 😂
Here’s a helpful video. The First 10 Days of Your New Sourdough Starter: Troubleshooting Tips
czcams.com/video/_OAhPvQ5Ngo/video.html
@@thesourdoughjourney Thank you!
In your other video, the feeding ratio is 1:2:2 but here it's 1:1:1
I'm a little confused.
There’s not a big difference between 1:1:1 and 1:2:2. For basic maintenance, I always recommend starting with 1:1:1 and see how your starter behaves, how quickly it rises and falls, etc, then adjust the feeding ratio based your specifics - mostly your kitchen temperature and how frequently you want to feed it based on how fast it rises. More helpful details here. thesourdoughjourney.com/faq-starter-maintenance/
If you have a strong starter why wouldn't you feed 1/2/2. Wouldn't this keep it stronger because it has double the food to eat and 24 hours to do it? It doubles at 4 hours and a higher flour ratio would take longer.
Good question. I recommend starting at 1:1:1 and if it rises and falls too fast on 24 hours then go up to 1:2:2 etc. it is just a starting baseline.
What if u have aircondition
It still works, just all slower. Not a bad thing.
I don't get it, if you feed 1:1:1 every 24 hours. But your starter peaks 4 hours after feeding, how come is it not starving 20 hours later? Is it because the process is not a bell curve and while it rises fast it decreased slowly? Doesn't it smell like alcohol or acetone by the next day?
Does it mean that you usually feed in the morning and use your starter around noon and finish bulk fermentation at night?
I mean I thought you ALWAYS had to feed or make a levain the starter at peak, otherwise you are weakening it by not feeding when there's the most yeast population, is this wrong?
There are many ways to do it. This method is basic “survival” feeding. Then before I plan to bake I do three rounds of peak to peak feeding which gets it ready for baking. If you are baking infrequently, (e.g. weekly) the twice daily feeding can really be excessive for some people. If you are baking more frequently (daily or every other day) then you would do feedings every 12 hours or so. The time to peak is also highly temperature dependent. You can slow down the time to peak by keeping it cooler and it does not impact strength.
@@thesourdoughjourney thank you for the detailed response
U mentioned here u do 3 rounds of peak to peak feeding before ur leaven mix. So I’m assuming from ur videos each peak is at about 4 to 6 hrs. Let’s say it’s 6. So u go back by about 18 hrs of peak to peak before making leaven. I’m just trying to organize my baking. Also this point means u feed more frequently, but I read ur reply on a comment about maintenance and it says it’s better to increase ration to switch to a 1:2:2 rather than increase frequency. I’m a little confused. Is 1:2:2 used for strengthening a starter and more frequency for prepping to make a leaven. Thank you.
Good questions. I’ve slightly changed my methods over time.
Yes, I do three rounds of peak to peak if I want to strengthen my starter before baking (I’m actually doing it right now!).
My starter typically peaks in about 4-6 hours. When you do peak to peak, it will often rise faster each time, so perhaps 6, then 5, then 4 hours. And the rise time is also temperature dependent. So I can speed it up by slightly warming it, or slow it down by cooling it. That temperature effect has no impact on the strength, just the timing.
Similarly with the feeding ratio. The feeding ratio can be used to control the timing, and a higher feeding ratio (1:2:2 or higher) can also help de-acidify the starter. So I use those two variables as follows:
If my starter smells very acidic and I want to knock down the acidity before baking, I’ll do the first peak to peak feeding at 1:2:2 (or higher). This may take slightly longer to peak because of the higher feeding (7-8 hours). On the second feeding, if the acidic smell is gone (it usually is), I’ll do a 1:1:1 feeding just to speed things up again (so perhaps it will peak in 5 hours). Then on the last feeding, it depends on the timing. If I can get the third feeding in on the same day and mix the leaven that evening, I’ll do another 1:1:1 (for speed) and it will peak in 4 hours. If it is too late and I need it to go overnight before peaking, I’ll do a 1:2:2 (or higher, even 1:5:5) and keep the starter in a cool place to slow it down for a 7-8 hour peak so it’s at peak in the morning.
If the starter looks really strong after the second feeding and it’s late at night, I’ll then just build the leaven as the third round. You’ll get a feel for how it should look, smell, and how quickly it should rise. Sometimes 3 rounds are not necessary.
I hope this is clear. These are really small fine adjustments to the process. You could do 1:1:1 three times and it will work. Or, 1:2:2, three times, etc. Use higher feeding ratios if it smells acidic, or to slow down the rise.
What if it doesn’t double in 4 hours?
Give it more time. Temperature is a big factor. And some starters rise faster than others. It is just a guideline.
also.. my starter is never pourable.. why is that?
It really depends on the type of flour, the exact amount of water and how active the fermentation is. Mine is pourable 24 hours but not 12 hours after feeding. So if you are feeding twice daily, I would not expect it to thin out.
Where is your maintaining a sourdough starter WEEKLY video?
No video but some info here. thesourdoughjourney.com/faq-starter-maintenance/
@@thesourdoughjourney Thank you!
You feed everyday??? How about a vacation? I don’t want to be a slave to this.
If you keep it at a room temp, you need to feed it every day. Many people keep theirs in the fridge. You can feed if much less frequently (weekly or less frequently).