Firewall Comparison, Which Ones We Use and Why We Use Them: Untangle / pfsense / Ubiquiti
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Hi, old pfSense contributor here. I originally rolled into this project when using a M0n0wall router internally. After some further investigating we started using pfSense in the pre 1.0 days. Later on I wrote the RRD graphs, IPv6 support in the UI as well as implementing the Gateways, Gateway Groups and some other things.
Eating one's own dog food is *very* useful. Things like the duplicate button that only existed on the firewall page was replicated to VPNs and other items. Because it just make life so much easier.
The gateway groups came to pass from load balancing, wanting to assign weights, that sort of thing. The drawback of a lot of this is that you need to define everything before you can asssign it. Sorry for that. But if you manage a lot of routes that makes it very readable and easy to grasp. Alos glad that apinger was replaced with dpinger :)
Then you need things like PXE network booting and pfSense just has the ISC dhcpd logic to pass the right BIOS, EFI32 or EFI64 image. Things that otherwise are really hard to get rid, or only give you a single Boot file option, booo.
We ended up building a internal vlan router with this eventually, with a Dell PowerEdge server with Intel X520 10Ge dual port card. That worked really well for 7 years or so and 1 upgrade cycle. The base box was less then 1500 euro a piece. HA was a cinch.
Other plus is a readable configuration, and through the exec.php page I had a PHP interface to this config. So on regular occasions I wrote some conversion code to modify ~350 IPSec vpn tunnel endpoints or encryption settings using this page. I never found another that has sonething similiar, and I had a tip that only Juniper currently has something comparable.
For comparison, I now use a Watchguard XTM M4600 (~14k euro a piece), the aliases are not sorted alphanumerically in the Windows Policy manager, and listed in a really small select screen. The OpenVPN server can only be used for mobile clients, and only has one server. To make matters worse, the webserver it runs is on 443, so if it reloads rules you ocassionally connect to watchguard openvpn config server instead. Not so much fun. No support for OpenVPN client tunnels or extra servers with different settings or certs. Still, it does do a lot of inspection and offers inspection capabilities, but with some network bending drawbacks. Min boggingly, if you need to look up the ARP table, that is only available in the WebUI, and not in the Windows manager.
I guess each brand has their own issues and finnicky things.
I left the project after it went from BSD Perimeter to Netgate, it required signing a legal waiver for code contributed to github, and I just never did. Good memories though.
Wow, lot of cool history there! Hope you doing well and thanks for sharing!
I don't comment on videos often. I just wanted to drop a line and say how much I appreciate your channel and videos. Super helpful and so helpful. Keep up the good work, I am a fan
I don't always comment on videos but when I do, I comment on yours
Whoa dude kick azz video! You nailed all the relevant points well in less than 20 min. You just sold me on PFS. Peace. ✌️😎👍
Great information, and really appreciate that you also talk to those of us that build & manage networks for our SMB customers. Having your knowledge on-hand is how we look good for them! Cheers!
Great presentation. Accurate overview of these products. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks for the high level overview and comparison of the different platforms! It really comes down to use cases, and sometimes personal preference, for the most part with many of these. I've been running pfSense for a while, but as you said you really need to tinker a bit with things under the hood sometime to get it working right. Had considered Untangle in the past due to the reporting functionality and front end configuration for most functionality... your video talked me into trying it out again. Thanks again for the video!
I am so glad to see that Untangle gets your seal of approval. After struggling with PFSense, despite watching countless hours of video tutorials, and having to set up a second network for my wife to use, I switched over to Untangle in October. I went with the home subscription, and I don't think I will look anywhere else. Definitely worth the $50 price tag for ease of use, and the features that you get. Plus I don't have to upgrade my box for awhile!
Just subscribed and liked, really enjoying your videos. keep up the great content!
Thank you for the content, really enjoy y'all's teaching style.
Thanks. This has been really helpful. I have a Sonicwall but refuse to pay Dell’s annual fees after the initial 3 years ran out. I’ve played around with pfsense but Untangle might be even easier and I can handle $50 a year. Your videos are some of the best of their kind on the web.
as always informative.. Thanks for the comparison, adds to decisive prams
Thanks for making these videos. It is nice to get tips and pointers. I recently got a protectli box and your videos make setup/config so easy.
Great video with lots of detail. I can only imagine the newbs having a hard time grasping the 'white box' comment when you picked up the black hardware case and having the 'black box' right behind it which was white in colour. Always makes me smile inside.
Bro you are a breath of fresh air.. keep it up dude you're a legend =)
I wished i found this channel years ago. Thanks for this!
Routers and firewalls are my favorite video topic. Love hardware.
Great summary, thank you! I also concur with all the callouts you have about USG, Edge, and pfSense. I personally lean towards pfSense as well. I do also have a USG Pro which seems to perform bit better than USG, but the VLAN routing, and routing between two LANs (LAN1, LAN2) is still a pain from what I have experienced, but cant say that is the case because my skills may not be the best.
Dude I am new to your channel, it is awesome. Keep it up and thank you.
Excellent review. I’ll be looking for new ones.
The guys at Lawrence Systems are absolutely awesome. My IT skills are limited, but I had watched enough CZcams videos to know that these guys knew their stuff. I live in Texas and I hired them to help me build and deploy a ubiquiti network. They provided great advice, acquired and program all of the equipment, and then shipped it to me for install. I was going to use the usg, but they recommended the netgate 3100. The network has been up an running for a little over a year and has worked flawlessly.
Thanks!
Great video! I've deployed all of these devices and couldn't agree with you more. Netgate is also my go to for pfsense and I would advise anyone who is looking to deploy pfsense in a business environment to buy direct. One tip with Netgate, their email support is free if purchased through them with original configuration. They are quick to respond even by email..of course buy support if you have a mission critical environment.
I've been a PFsense user for a long, long time. Recently, I've found Untangle. This video really clears some things up for me. Thanks!
Please bro can u help me on pfsense url
I've been running an untangle box for my router at home for about 4 years now and it's been great. Free license for all of it except one year I got the $50 one to check out content filtering and all that. Which do you prefer, untangle or PFsense? My buddy who got me into Untangle went to PFsense but I don't see any need for it.
Hey guys! I deployed the netgate for a client that needed several vlans, one is a public wireless network. The venue is a performing arts theater and it has to handle a thousand connections both wired and wirelessly. It works great even running Surricata and other modules. It was super easy to configure, runs stable, but a little warm. I'd recommend it to anyone!
I really have enjoyed a lot of your videos. Keep it up. In my company really we really love the Sophos XG line of firewalls and as a partner we get access to a centralized management system - that part does need some work. They aren’t cheap though but nowhere near Cisco prices.
Cisco is very overrated. They market themselves like Apple
Many years late to the party, but want to thumbs up to PFsense! Use a microtik box with two 2 Smoothwall S8's running PFsense below. Separates my work and personal LAN. PFsense is so configurable its great. :) Suggest everyone give it a go.
Clear and informative....best networking video I've seen.
I just subscribed, awesome information delivery.
(Y) Great and super easy video for me not only to understand the features of these products but was a catalyst to my decision making for home Networking requirements.
Great show. A wealth of information.
Nice comparison video! thanks
Love the Ubiquiti firewall, the best bang for the buck!!!
Helpful video, thanks! Bottom line...scale your router to your requirements and personal needs.
Mine is the $50 deal!
I put in an edgerouter pro (rackmount unit) with 54 VLANs on a gb fibre connection and it's been working great for about 2 years now. It's a 52 unit apartment complex with 9 Ruckus APs for wifi with a separate SSID and VLAN (plus 1 for public and management) for each unit. Also used UBNT POE switches and no issues there either.
Matt S. I run an er8pro with 1gb fiber. 10 ap pros and about 80 Ethernet clients. Also routing a /28
I'm an MSP and have been using Untangle at all my client sites for the last 6yrs exclusively. I don't have near the experience you seem to have with other solutions, but I've been highly impressed with Untangle. As of yet, I haven't run into any config I couldn't achieve using Untangle. One of my favorite things is the OpenVPN app is part of the open source base, so I can get essential network config, reporting, and a VPN installed without a subscription. But when you get a subscription the possibilities are seemingly endless. At one of my clients, Untangle tarpits streaming media services based on the end user's Active Directory group membership! That's some really well integrated networking right there. But I did discover the Protectli devices on your channel, so I'm 0retty sure my hardware costs can go down now ;-)
Sometimes the youtube algorithms do a good job recommending exactly what I was searching for :) just subbed
His channel is gold
Probably based on my google searches ._. But a good video
Thanks Lawrence! Very helpful!
I like the setting of the scene, just done in workshop, nice lighting, some good depth too(foreground focused, background not.. ofcourse.).
And good comparison of stuff you know about. Maybe sometimes it be fun to hear comparison between.. this and more ordinary routers people might have, or the kinda hyped "Gaming" routers, or whatever. Not that I really think id use or it is the normal audience. But it be fun.
Great job. I think the only thing you might have left out about UnTangle is that it can do SSL decryption. This is essential in my book.
Working with all this products for years, used to build ipfilter rules over freeBSB back in the 90"s for top secure firewalls, thanks pfsense life is much better now, agreed 1000%, amazing video.
Very thorough review. I'm currently looking into making my home network more secure and to also start messing with a home lab to expand my knowledge and this was very informative. For home lab usage, do you still prefer the pfsense route or does one of the other options stand out more?
brilliant comparison thanks Lawrence Systems. I've got a Netgate running pfSense at home and have just built a second remote pfSense box running on a HP Compaq DC8000 (Intel Quad Core with 4gb of Ram). pfSense runs so well it's very difficult to look beyond. Interesting comments regarding Untangle. I've never used it, have heard of it, sounds quite good. I also have a ClearOS server sitting behind my pfSense router at home to provide some excellent transparent proxy content filtering (keep the kids protected from adult websites etc)
Excellent. Good work!
Would love to hear your thoughts on some other options as well like Sophos XG/UTM Home, ClearOS, etc.
OhFreeGames sophos-just no, please no
I really like your reviews and the magnitude of information you give us. I'd love to see an overview on how to combine a firewall with a router and switches to make the absolute max of the ISP provided internet bandwidth as well as the more powerful LAN setup between machines and switches. Like how limiting is the 1Gbps port on a firewall if you have a lot of LAN devices talking to each other using for example 2,5 Gbps switches and for example PC's and NAS servers :)
Edge router x is amazing! I've had one up for 2 years now. No downtime. Great alternative to crappy consumer all in one's. Pair with a ac pro and you have a nighthawk killer.
same here can speak to that!
My nighthawk makes an excellent AP. Has never seen anything plugged in on the WAN side.
@@bertblankenstein3738 you still pay more for a nighthawk. They are over priced and you have less features/controls.
@@Questchaun lol, I had a look, I have an Asus Rt-AC68U, no nighthawk. Obviously I haven't looked closely. Same thing, it is just an AP and it works well. I've had it for a number of years.
The ER-X can push ~200Mbps with QoS enabled and is the only router in the group with a dedicated switch chip. For small offices the ER-X is a little beast when you need to QoS your WAN and want to run VLANs bridged on the switch ports.
Nice comparison video for these low end firewalls with advanced features.. I recently downloaded pfSense to run in a SuperMicro ITX system. I’ll check out the generic system you recommended as well.
Great video! Thanks!
pfSense is great, I have 6 years experience deploying and using it in datacenters and office space. About 6 months ago I started trialling OPNSense which is equally great and a fork of pfSense. I recommend looking at that as well given the community edition / commercial split vibe I currently get from pfSense.
I've been using a DIY Sophos box for the last few years, but lately I've been really thinking about testing PFSense on the same hardware. It's been a long time since I tried it, so it's probably come a long way.
The Ubiquiti also supports BGP, ipsec, and VTI. I use all these to establish tunnels between branches, AWS, and other datacenters as the BGP advertisements make things simple.
That said, the low end devices have a lot of features but they lack processing power. The Lite and ER-8 are used in branches while PFSense runs as a VM in the datacenter.
Hello,
perfect Video.
i used Sophos UTM 9 Home Edition.
for only 50 Clients its perfect but for more than that i used pfsense.
Good vid and well presented.
OpenWrt on EdgeRouter X rocks. Sad you didn't mention because it even gives you NAT offloading mechanisms. Really good choice.
Hi Tom, thanks for video. Would be nice if you could cover Cisco ASA and Dell SonicWALL just to know the advantages between open source and enterprise commercial solutions.
Great info- thanks
Very useful. Thanks!
Nice comparison you got there mate. My previous firewall is PFSense and change to Unifi Security Gateway Pro. Honestly, I can't do much with USG, unlike my previous firewall which is quite flexible. bad decision... :D
Thanks for the video, this is the question I have been trying to answer for myself over the last year or so. I like the idea of pfsense but the ease of UT. As a home user either would be great. May grab a protectelli or an old dell server blade and try both :). This channel is awesome for my hobbiest knowledge, I just need to finish off my unifi setup with a nice router.
Overall great video, I do think you needed to touch on the untangle pricing scheme more. $250/yr. for a 12 device subscription seems pretty insane imo.
Untangle is free for personal use/basic version. If you want all the bells and whistles (apps like content filtering) for home use, it's only $50. As far as for a business, $250 is really cheap. Most businesses that use Windows servers, adobe products, virtualization, etc. pay 10's of thousands per year (if not hundreds of thousands or even millions for large orgs) for licensing. I'm not sure what situation you'd need the $250 license for where that would be considered "insane". Your business can't pay 20 bucks a month for network/firewall/content filtering, VPN, etc? LoL! Or perhaps you're trying to use it for home use where $250 would be considered a lot of money and you're unaware they have the free basic version or $50/yr home version.
P.S. I'm not affiliated with Untangle at all. I've used it at my home for free for about 3 years and 1 year I got the $50 version to play around with some apps but decided not to keep it. Still use the basic free version though and it's fantastic. Haven't tried PFsense though so I can't say it's better or worse.
Great video, what are your thoughts about fortigate and checkpoint ?
Great video! I'd love to hear your thoughts on the UniFi USG Pro 4 - especially with the ram increased from 2gb to 8gb (for large environments with ~500 users)
The same but faster, no real new thought on it.
For Business use: The Ubiquiti line + Cloud Key and Cloud management as an entry point. Chances are, you already (should be) using their AP's anyway. CISCO Meraki MX with Advanced Malware Protection for most use cases, simply due to 0-day AMP and Sonicwall TZ series for more nerdy setups would be my starting points. First and foremost is support availability and not looping to a single tech guy who set it up through some "command line"
The Ubiquiti EdgeRouter has been pretty reliable for me when I want to eliminate small business client (no more than 7 workstations) router that comes from the ISP. After configuring about five of these I realized that spending more on a router saved the client some billable hours in locking down the Ubiquiti EdgeRouter.
I used pfsense from 2002 timeframe roughly until 2007. Then I became a "real" network engineer and went to various Asa's and srx's. Ran untangle at a couple customer sights until around 2015. Now I'm Unifi all the way just for simplicity. UDM pro at home replaced my ER-4 which replaced a few previous Mikrotik's.
Order of pref for feature and performance, SRX, Mikrotik, Edge Router, Unifi.
For ease of use, Unifi, ER, SRX, Mikrotik.
I've tried various other open source and paid solutions over the years, and these are what I always come back to.
I now use Palo Alto at work, they are NOT carrier grade, miss my ASR's, and MX's, but they do cover a lot of features and use cases. They are very expensive, even compared to Cisco, and I wouldn't recommend them for small business use at all!
My life is simplified now that I'm older (42) so I have no DC's or anything crazy anymore, and just StarLink vs multiple load balanced connection in my past life. UniFi really does knock it out of the park, even with all their issues. Like getting IPsec VPN working over StarLinks CGNAT.... But it does work!
Hey There - thanks so much for taking the time to make these videos - we have a 5 person network and have been asked by a client to install a hardware firewall - we have no in-house IT person, and I think I know just enough to get into trouble - can you recommend a device for a small business that it essentially plug & play? Client is asking for a device with the following features: IDS, IPS, Gateway A/V, Anti-spam, Application Control, and content filtering enabled - would also love to not have to subscribe to software updates - is there a unicorn firewall solution out there for us in your opinion?
Awesome, Thanks a lot!!!
That black box from alibaba can handle pfsense as Vitual Machine on HyperV for ex. So you can install two pfsenses on it and get 2 vpn tunnels and update remotely without risk to loose connection. Moreover you can make snapshot VM before update to rollback if update is failed. And with big size hdd you can get installed other VM on this box. So you can get router(s), fileserver, lab for tests...
Very detailed explanation, if you get opinions from other places, people say protectli. Seem like im leaning towards Netgate more.
i have been using untangled for a few months and paid for the home user...works great and easy to setup...i still need to explore its features in more depth and maybe a video tutorial would be awesome????.... ;)
Excellent video. Used pfsense for over 20 years. Never failed me. I'm curious to try out untangle for recommending to less techie users. Do they have child protection features built in? Also, can you use the USG as a pass through device just for the unifi dashboard stats?
Thanks for the clarification - the doubt I had regarding the EdgeRouter has been confirmed - great show.
BTW : What is your view on OpenSense ?
there is nothing compelling about OpenSense that would make me want to use it over pfsense
My ISP has a Modem/router all in one. Right now i have an apple router set as follows:
*ISP modem/router --> DHCP range set to 192.168.10--256
*Static IP set for apple router -- outside dhcp range
* placed apple router in ISP router settings DMZ so my router can do its own routing
My question is can i do this same set up with the USG with ease or will i need to have more advanced skills to change these settings?
For the comments on the EdgeRouter series, would you say the same is true for the EdgeRouter Pro8? I went for that one mostly for the higher throughput. I did replace the fans for more quiet ones, but it has served me well. I've got a relatively high number of devices, but it is home use with an office element for my job. 200 Mbit up/down is the fastest I can get, so even with some basic filtering enabled I'm still safely away from the bottleneck :) Appreciate the honest comparisons. I have the Unifi AC Pros, very nice devices. Still not sure if I should go for a Unifi switch though, as I want to prep for 10G and the you have to step up to 48 ports to get that POE+ ability. Thanks again!
Have you ever put a USG between pfsense and your switch in a pass through like mode to get the nice graphs in the UniFi manager? I have UniFi APs and looking to get some more information in the dashboard and debating on a USG but keeping pfsense as my firewall
Lawrence, First thank you for making these videos, I really have learned alot about hardware firewalls. I have a question, I have a Zyxel UAG5100 that I got for free. I was wondering would this work for just a hardware firewall for home use and all I would need to do is update the firmware, correct? I know this is a overkill but it was free, haha. All I did was factory reset it and updated the firmware. I called Zyxel support to see if I don't need a subscription to have the firewall and they said no, the hardware is all I needed, is this correct? Or would you recommend getting the Netgate? I won't be doing nothing crazy, I just want a good firewall for my future smart home. I wish I could PFsense on the Zyxel!
I use Ubiquiti for home use and it is awesome.
I use the EdgeRouter X at home and am able to seamlessly VPN into the office SonicWalls with it. The interface is kludgy, but it handles my 300/300 FiOS line no problem using very little power and for a low price. I wouldn't use it for more than the most basic office though.
My company primarily services SMBs and we're looking to switch away from Sonicwalls. The problem is that we just known them and change is hard. I might pick up another NIC and run pfSense on my home server to test it out.
Timely of me to stumble across this as i'm evaluating network solutions for a potential client and i've been out of the network world for a while.
Thanks very helpful
+1 for the captive portal stuff!
Appreciate your detailed HW review.
I would appreciate your recommendations regarding my network needs. I need a router / FW to do multi-wan load balance / failover that really works.. Beyond that my network needs are pretty basic. I've tried several ASUS and TP-Link routers that claim the dual WAN with load balance / fail over however none that I have tried have actually worked. I have about 45 connected devices ( 15ish wired and 30ish Wi-Fi). Both my WAN connections are
Great video btw, a little off topic but any suggestions on home server to run solid 4 to 5 vms off?
Dell Optiplex 9020.
Go for an i7. Even better if its a "T" variant... Can push the price up a little but nice and low power consumption and supports both a 16x and 4x low profile PCIE.
I stuck a quad gigabit nic in mine (i5-4690) and building an overkill router/firewall/IDS/VPN/.... Pretty much anything you can throw at it
The nifty thing with pfSense is it's so easy to build what meets your needs so cheap...I was using a Zotac Zbox (which had realtek NICs) but recently was shown a nice cheap HP thinclient with PCIe slot for a server NIC in addition to options for swapping the OEM WLAN card for an OEM fiber-card. Total cost under $300 new with full gigabit (around 950Mbps) routing between VLANs and WAN with loads of resources to spare. I'd never update anything remotely just in case...but the ease of use and flexibility is amazing with what all pfSense can do.
HP t620 plus?
I would like to see your review of Mikrotik products. I bet that you would find them to be great solutions.
I have many USG and USG Pro 4 that I am using as paperweights since I got my mikrotiks
came to say this. second comment. good
@@ap5672 send me some of those paper weight
@@rhdtv2002 ha ha they are literally at the bottom of my boxes of unused parts.
@@ap5672 damn man..please tell me you live in Chicago..I'll be right over
Use a Microtik for the first barrier and with the right rules in it is a great wall and does not crumble on DOS like I experienced with an ubiquiti. great comparison for those choices
Thanks for the comparison... I'm interested in the Netgate box, would you still recommend it or are there better alternatives at that price point ($400) these days?
You held up the Ubiquiti RouterX as an example of an "cheap" ARM device, but it's not ARM. It has a MIPS processor, like the rest of their line.
@Lawrence. I loved the review and I personally liked the Untangle review. What do you think about using the FW2B(it seems Intel AES-NI will be a major differential) to use for a home network (about 100Mbps) to run the entire traffic using a VPN provider running with Untangle? Can you do a review with the protection running untangle and open VPN?
Can you do videos on how to use and configure the netgate pfsense on how to do the most common configurations that people need. In addition can you also cover how to catch/trap viruses and intrusion detection. Thank you.
Nice, concise review. I'd be interested in seeing your review of enterprise-grade (e.g., certified) firewalls, such as those from Fortigate, Juniper, PaloAlto, SonicWall, etc. Yes, they cost more, but they are much more polished products, with the level of support levels that enterprise clients are looking for. When you're talking about the safety of an entire enterprise, a few hundred dollars in additional cost isn't an issue. It's just the cost of doing business. Comparing these with the open-source and Vyatta-based products would be very valuable.
I would say that pfsense & Untangle are enterprise grade and they both offer support contracts when you buy them as their own appliances.
@@LAWRENCESYSTEMS I've looked for some kind of certification for pFsense, such as ICSA Labs certification, but can't find anything. Most enterprises requires formal independent certification for security products, both for liability reasons, and because some governance regulations require it. It would be one thing if there were a dearth of certified firewall appliances, but why should any enterprise use an uncertified product when so many certified products are widely available for not much more cost?
I noticed that pFsense has a product called 'pFsense Certified(R) Virtual Firewall Appliance", but upon investigation, I found that they simply made the word "Certified" part of their registered trademark. That won't fly as an independent certification with any enterprise I know of.
So this is where a feature comparison would be helpful, weighing the extra cost of various enterprise attributes such as certification and central reporting, against the costs of low-end solutions.
Pfsense will never have a common criteria or similar rating either. Pfsense is prosumer at best.
@@uendarkarplips7263 Agreed
I mean, Vyatta is pretty enterprise. Isn't it what Brocade uses?
I've gotten a few QOTOM off of Amazon as well.
Great video..!
Awesome video. Can you do one updated version? Or just let us know what's new?
Firewalla seems to be emerging more. I would love to see a video on those.
Thank you for all your videos they are very good and clear to understand.
Should review Clavister equipment, very much unknown brand on CZcams but a very good one.
Thanks so much for such an unbiased review. I use edgerouters in small offices (1-2 people) and pfsense in offices with 6+ people. How do you see using the SG1000 or pfsense community edition on I3 cpu, 4 Gig ram and 160 gig hd with intel nic cards replacing my edgerouter-x?
The SG1000 is neat, but is simply not that fast. An i3 with an intel NIC is likely to be faster
Hi there! So far, i've enjoyed your videos and have learned a lot as well!! Question. What model of NetGate pfsense do you recommend for SOHO?
The sg3100 is. Great one for small businesses
Lawrence Systems / PC Pickup thank you