Excellent video once again. Thanks and keep them coming. In your calculations 11000 was the right answer. 4 x 2750. ( not 2250). Pass on my regards to Old Rusty 😁
That torque story was only half of it. It's not what the engine makes but what actually gets to the wheels. The bike engine can run a much shorter final gearing, in fact double the reduction that the car engine can because of its double width power band. So back wheel thrust will be about equal.
Long time watcher, first time commenting. Horsepower is a measure of total work done over time. To get it, we multiply the torque by the rpm (oversimplified). this is why an engine which generates less force (torque) per power stroke, makes up for it by having more power strokes. When you used a longer bar on the bolt, you DID increase the force, but you also increased the distance travelled, so the total amount of work performed was the same. This is the basic principle of mechanical advantage.
This was a great video. I have a Lotus 7 and I went with a Toyota Beams 3sge. Some days I wonder if a Suzuki Hyabusa engine would be better. Your video helped me remember that I am on track and there are advantages to the car engine. Your explanation about torque and Short and long stroke helped me understand. I also have to keep in mind that torque feels nice. When the throttles open wide and the engine pulls strong from a low rpm for a long time it feels nice. Thanks again. Rex in New Zealand.
Indeed, and that works like a champ... Did you ever race against a FF 2000 ? on a track and how did that end up ? Of course yours is fast due to the HP/weight ratio
Clear explanation Stephan! A small addition to this video: a short stroke can also be applied if the overall weight of the vehicle is low. A low mass needs less torque to accelerate. Therefore, a choice can be made to give a sporty motorcycle engine a short stroke rather than keeping the dimensions of the engine in check. Keep up the good work!
Thank you for a very thought provoking video. I initially thought a motorcycle engine gave formula 1 technology to the car, but your well explained problems/benefits video is most useful. Thanks again and best regards Marc. Australia.
what a bike engine conversion does is replace a lot of the old hard to find racing specific parts. dont think many bike conversions happen from a good running race cars but from ones that are blown up or have been canibalised to fix other cars. in that way its a cost-effective if labor-intensive way of getting a car back on track. that it is somewhat competitive is just a bonus. also you can have fun with the bikes aftermarket. clutches are also a problem for motorcycle and atv drag racers so there are after market solutions like lockup clutches and recluse torque drives. something to look out for the extra strain on the clutch in a car will definitely shorten the life of the clutch baskets, the metal clutch plates digging into the aluminum makeing them not slide freely and hanging up, causes irregular clutch plate wear and slipping. there's lots of replacements its just something to check. 140hp is no where near where bikes top out. ktm 1190 and 1290 motors are dry sump thin v twin engines that should be easier to package in the cars frame, also 160-180 hp depending on model.
Firstly ,the obvious choice for a car due its weight is the Hyabusa. A little smaller in capacity than the car engine but with no modification considerably more powerful with added benefit of torque that is needed for the greater weight of the car. Smaller high revving engines simply don’t have the torque to do the job.
Very interesting video, thank you! I wonder what the result would be if both race cars had a car engine, but one of the engines was oversquare and revved very high. So all things being equal except for bore/stroke ratio.
Thanks for the comments, well one would have more horse power, but the torque will be relatively less. Here is an approximate assessment based on a simple calculation: CAR A - 300HP at 20000 RPM, CAR B -150HP at 5000 RPM. Results in Torque: CAR A= 106Nm CAR B= 213 Nm Of course that is engine torque , wheel torque will depend on many things (diff ratio, gearbox ratio and gear). The track type etc...Lots of acceleration due to turns and breaking requires torque to accelerate.. Long straights, are less demanding...
Well on a small track with lots of turns, the car engine was faster, less shifting and better torque. On another track that can be completely different
Did the Smart car originally have a bike engine, 3 cylinder? I saw a German ytube where a highly tuned bike engine was placed in a Smart Car and it was fast on the autobahn.
Excellent video once again. Thanks and keep them coming. In your calculations 11000 was the right answer. 4 x 2750. ( not 2250). Pass on my regards to Old Rusty 😁
You are correct, I need to go back to school... should never edit a video at night .....lol
That was an excellent presentation! Especially the torque segment.
Glad you liked it!
That torque story was only half of it. It's not what the engine makes but what actually gets to the wheels. The bike engine can run a much shorter final gearing, in fact double the reduction that the car engine can because of its double width power band. So back wheel thrust will be about equal.
Long time watcher, first time commenting. Horsepower is a measure of total work done over time. To get it, we multiply the torque by the rpm (oversimplified). this is why an engine which generates less force (torque) per power stroke, makes up for it by having more power strokes. When you used a longer bar on the bolt, you DID increase the force, but you also increased the distance travelled, so the total amount of work performed was the same. This is the basic principle of mechanical advantage.
That was a very nice and detailed video. I finally understand the difference between a car engine and a bike engine. Thanks Steve.
Glad it was helpful!
This was a great video. I have a Lotus 7 and I went with a Toyota Beams 3sge. Some days I wonder if a Suzuki Hyabusa engine would be better. Your video helped me remember that I am on track and there are advantages to the car engine. Your explanation about torque and Short and long stroke helped me understand. I also have to keep in mind that torque feels nice. When the throttles open wide and the engine pulls strong from a low rpm for a long time it feels nice. Thanks again. Rex in New Zealand.
My pleasure and thanks for watching. I also do enjoy torque at mid and low RPM's. Enjoy your racing
Great video, very interesting comparison. I run in the F1000 series here in the UK, we run mostly gsxr 1000s and car and engine weigh 320kg.
Indeed, and that works like a champ... Did you ever race against a FF 2000 ? on a track and how did that end up ? Of course yours is fast due to the HP/weight ratio
Clear explanation Stephan! A small addition to this video: a short stroke can also be applied if the overall weight of the vehicle is low. A low mass needs less torque to accelerate. Therefore, a choice can be made to give a sporty motorcycle engine a short stroke rather than keeping the dimensions of the engine in check. Keep up the good work!
Thank you for a very thought provoking video. I initially thought a motorcycle engine gave formula 1 technology to the car, but your well explained problems/benefits video is most useful. Thanks again and best regards Marc. Australia.
Great explaination about torque!
Eish Steve, I have to watch this video 3 to 4 times before commenting. Informative but my mind sometimes slips. Eish
Moshitoa south Africa
That was an excellent comparison Steve, thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience.
Always interesting. Thanks Steve 👍
Glad you enjoyed it
Hi Steve, interesting video, very well explained👍🙋
what a bike engine conversion does is replace a lot of the old hard to find racing specific parts. dont think many bike conversions happen from a good running race cars but from ones that are blown up or have been canibalised to fix other cars. in that way its a cost-effective if labor-intensive way of getting a car back on track. that it is somewhat competitive is just a bonus.
also you can have fun with the bikes aftermarket. clutches are also a problem for motorcycle and atv drag racers so there are after market solutions like lockup clutches and recluse torque drives. something to look out for the extra strain on the clutch in a car will definitely shorten the life of the clutch baskets, the metal clutch plates digging into the aluminum makeing them not slide freely and hanging up, causes irregular clutch plate wear and slipping. there's lots of replacements its just something to check.
140hp is no where near where bikes top out. ktm 1190 and 1290 motors are dry sump thin v twin engines that should be easier to package in the cars frame, also 160-180 hp depending on model.
Thanks for the comments, and yes there are special bike engines that overcome most of the challenges as you stated in your write up.
Thanks for a very interesting and well presented video with great analytics
Glad you enjoyed it!
Firstly ,the obvious choice for a car due its weight is the Hyabusa. A little smaller in capacity than the car engine but with no modification considerably more powerful with added benefit of torque that is needed for the greater weight of the car. Smaller high revving engines simply don’t have the torque to do the job.
Very interesting video, thank you! I wonder what the result would be if both race cars had a car engine, but one of the engines was oversquare and revved very high. So all things being equal except for bore/stroke ratio.
Thanks for the comments, well one would have more horse power, but the torque will be relatively less. Here is an approximate assessment based on a simple calculation:
CAR A - 300HP at 20000 RPM,
CAR B -150HP at 5000 RPM.
Results in Torque:
CAR A= 106Nm
CAR B= 213 Nm
Of course that is engine torque , wheel torque will depend on many things (diff ratio, gearbox ratio and gear). The track type etc...Lots of acceleration due to turns and breaking requires torque to accelerate.. Long straights, are less demanding...
8:10 5500/2=2750, so 11,000 labor strokes per minute was correct 👍
yes, you are right...
and what if I put a industrial rotary in a car?
I suppose being race cars the most important consideration is which one is quicker?
Yes, and both engine types have their Merritt. Pending the track and use
Great video! Which one is faster on track ?
Well on a small track with lots of turns, the car engine was faster, less shifting and better torque. On another track that can be completely different
You might like to know of SuperFastMatt who did exactly this with a honda s600, installed a bike engine in it.
Yep, and thanks for the comments
Did the Smart car originally have a bike engine, 3 cylinder? I saw a German ytube where a highly tuned bike engine was placed in a Smart Car and it was fast on the autobahn.
yes, that is very well possible... Bike engines are powerfull....
I have gs with the same engine. It has no water. Just oil and aircooled.
Indeed....
horsepower is how 'fast' you hit the wall. Torque is how 'far' you take that wall with ya.
Hayabusa engine enters the chat.
Yes, absolutely...
5500 divided by 2 is 2250???!!! Not in Australia mate!
That's 2750 for the car engine, not 2250.
yes, indeed goofed up.. Happens when editing late at night. well spotted
Why do people keep saying R.P.M.’S, when it’s just R.P.M. ?