Oscillator sync is a lot deeper than you imagine
Vložit
- čas přidán 23. 03. 2024
- I set out to make a quick, easy video looking at oscillator sync, and it lead me down a rabbit hole into probably the most difficult video I've made so far. Let me show you.
In the video I reference Gordon Reid's epic 63-part/article piece from Sound on Sound that dives into gory detail about subtractive synthesis, you can check it out here: www.soundonsound.com/techniqu... - Hudba
The hallmark of a good tutorial is when you go in thinking you already know a subject well (or, at least, well enough), and come away having learned something new. Thank you.
I'm glad there was something new in there for you :)
Confirming that the Gordon Reid "Synth Secrets" series is incredible and worth the read. It really helped me fill in a lot of understanding of fundamentals and synth architecture that I had been missing.
this is really well written, also you're well spoken. you deserve way more subscribers, i'm now one of them.
Thank you!
+1
I like to think of them as dominant and submissive oscillators.
😊😊😊
Wait until we get to uke and seme
I'll never look at patch cables the same way...
Master and Serrrvant
I thought everyone called them “Yes, Mistress Oscillator” and “You’ve Been A Bad Boy, Oscillator” … 🤷🏻♂️
Osc sync is one of the most useful sound design tools. Passing over the basic use case, you can just tear audio signals apart. I love it.
Thank you, this filled a lot of gaps in my understanding of what can happen during the sync scenario.
Hey, thanks @AlexBallMusic ! I learn stuff from your videos all the time, glad to pay it back a tiny bit.
Wow, I had no idea sync could vary so much between implementations. You gave me something new to look out for when experimenting with sounds. I really enjoyed this and your "hands on" explanation style.
Sync is my absolute favorite synth wave-shaping tool, and I am actually building a complete custom analog synth based around the AS3345 to further explore sync and other related so called "phase-locked" wave-shaping techniques. I will first say I totally understand your pain in trying to fully grasp sync setups. I think your visual demonstrations gave a particularly good and intuitive presentation of what can be a difficult topic to conceptualize theoretically. I would secondly want to say I really appreciate the nuance you brought to this presentation. Much like things like wavefolding or other "non-subtractive" synth methods, sound designers and tutorializers (is that even a word lol?) often provide overly simplistic and technically useless explanations of the technique. I am particular fan of these more obscure sound design tools, and I appreciate the care you put into relating how sync isn't just a button you push for weird sound, but actually a wide family of extremely useful, delicate, and complex methods of electronic manipulation. 10/10 vids, definitely one of my favorites of yours so far!
Wow, that is super kind of you to say! Thank you. There have been a few commenters saying that they are making their own synths to explore ideas, which is really exciting. You should make some videos when you have it working. :)
@@SoundVoltage oh I most definitely will!
“Hi, I am Hainbach and I’m glad to be part of your synthesizer”
Sync is mysterious. Have you looked into "windowed sync"? It's basically the addition of AM in sync with the leader to force the follower to zero at the point it resets, thus preventing a buzzing discontinuity in the waveform. Easier to do in digital modular environments...
George, honestly I'm not stalking you, but you seem to comment on the exact same videos I'm just about to comment on!
Your feed/algo recommendations must be very similar to mine. I salute your great taste in YT videos! 😂
@@VirtualModular i am very online.
the complexity of oscillator sync (and the complexity of (though zero) fm) is something i truly only appreciated when i got my neoni. it has three options for hard sync and also soft sync. then syncing to the modulating wave or to a square from the modulating oscillator also makes a huge difference. this amount of uncertainty/mystery about the process makes it a wonderful happy accident machine.
What’s neoni?
@@OFOTCN instruo's through-zero-fm oscillator.
Im glad your videos don't shy away from the guts and maths of sound. They are fascinating insights into how synthesis does what it does. Thank you for your efforts.
Thanks! I think people do shy away from the math too much, but I also know that a lot of my viewers might be turned off by it. Maybe I'll start doing some separate videos that are more mathy.
Great video! Using an attenuverter in the sync path was an eye-opener. Thanks!
This is so insightful!
I always thought oscillator sync is just oscillator sync and never really questioned how it really worked.
Cool vid
I went to look up a video on hard sync and yours was the first video suggested to me. Great content & detail as always.👍
I've got you covered!
Thank you very much, now I understand why each of my synthesizers have a complete different behavior, when I switch the sync on. Some of them even does not name it sync.
There's an *_Underworld_* live performance where they combined two of their biggest hits; *REZ* and *COWGIRL* - you can find it on the "nunocabanas" CZcams channel with the title, "UNDERWORLD- REZ COWGIRL (Everything, Everything Live)"... The opening Fuzzy sequence was always fascinating to me, exactly what key it was in, how they got that sound and that kind of thing. But if you listen to the very end of the performance, they've pulled down the (what sounds like to me) Cross-Modulation, revealing the source sequence! *_VERY INTERESTING_*
I've had a Roland JX-8P since the mid-80's & over that time I've never understood, or had it adequately explained what the X-Mod does. I can see by this video, I'll need to investigate further!
I know that performance! I'll have to go back and check it out again!
Brilliant - thank you 👏👏👏 and I DO understand osc sync better than before so 👍
Amazing video! Well done. Here I was syncing I had thinking down. Or the other way around as it appears :) But I guess with 30 years of synthesis experience I still have things to discover and learn. Thank you!
Opened lots of doors for exploration! Thanks for your thoughtful work. Also, frustcitement is a new favorite concept.
This was awesome. I’ve only ever used sync wave tables or warp modes so it’s really neat to see a full explanation.
Extremely well done. Informative, entertaining, and funny. Great work on a difficult subject, I definitely understand it better now. Thanks.
Thank you so much. It's great to get comments like this after all the effort!
Very fun
Would love to see even more depth! Techniques and examples get a different kind of juice flowing
Yeah, Thanx for the video! Really interesting and inspiring!
Great video. It gets really innteresting as you move the relative pitches multiple octaves apart. Make the leader silent and the follower a triangle. As you tune the follower up and down different notes there are radical timbre changes. On an analogue poly, it can sound almost liike a wavetable sweep.
Splendid explanation!
I can relate to the "I only have so much time in the day." quote more than anything else. 😀
oh my god I love this channel and I've been getting into VCV Rack recently. thank you so much for this
Happy to have found Your Channel!!
The sawtooth you showed likely swings around 0V DC. It's sync input resets the waveform to the middle of its cycle at 0V. The reset also seems to set the phase of the waveform to its downward cycle (likely due to easier circuit implementation). You can think of the sync input as a form of phase modulation (not FM).
The demo waveforms were reset at its most negative point, so I wouldn't focus too much on them as a comparison.
Anyone else got that syncing feeling? 🤓🥁
I would generally use a square or a pulse from the leader into the follower sync and have the sequence go into the v/oct jacks of both oscillators.
I hadn’t considered the other options or that the different architectures handle the sync input differently and the harmonics associated with that. Thank you for another wonderful video 👍
This is so crazy. Just last week I was scouring youtube for a good laymen explanation for what oscillator sync is and how it works. I could NOT find a comprehensive video that engaged with this topic. You couldn't have put this video out a better time. Thanks!
That money I've invested in mind reading technology is paying off already!
Another great video!! Another fascinating avenue to explore! Thank you!!
I think you did an incredible job explaining sync
yes, there's an open door with the various behaviors from different manufacturers sync methods
but the underlying premise is thoroughly explained here
I don' think these various methods need to be a mystery either
their behaviors can be defined (the three you show @9:34 could be described as repeat, hold, and mirrored, there's likely other methods in use out there)
and while the manufacturer most likely with just label it "sync", users would benefit from having language to classify each method
this arms customers with information before purchasing as well, for example if they prefer one method over another
perhaps this could be a follow up video, maybe it's too much of an undertaking, but it seems like something you'd be interested in
finally, sync can play a great role in creating stable fm patches in modular, by forcing your carrier and operator to be locked rather than drifting
@DataBroth the FM trick is a great one, I need to remember that when I go to make my FM video, thanks!
I'm pretty sure these mysteries will be revealed if you look into how different oscillator cores behave. A lot of the differences in behavior are likely due to what it means to reset the oscillator. 0 volts? 0 phase? What is the voltage of the waveform at 0 phase? Etc. Also the sync function could conceivably trigger on a 'rising' edge or 'falling' edge, which could also explain differences in results between oscillator models. Relative placement of that trigger in the follower waveform's cycle will adjust when the reset occurs, like in your pulsewidth example.
A fascinating video. Thank you for all the work that went into it. I have so many new questions about sync now that I've watched it-but I think having questions can be more exciting than having all the answers. More things to explore when patching. "There's more here than you thought" is a perfectly complete thesis for a video.
I'm glad it was helpful!
Wow, really incredible info. The filtering of the sequence at the end was fascinating. Thank you for putting this together!
Great video! Like you I thought I mostly understood the concept, and I do basically, but as always the consequences of it are much farther reaching than I had imagined. very interesting to see a well paced dived into just one element of synthesis like this
Looking forward to the FM video! This was very enlightening. I've found a lot of this same formant-y sync weirdness self patching my Sport Modulator 2. Always wondered how the fundamental affected sync, and why the harmonics were so unpredictable. This helped!
Bro, I subscribed like one minute in. I love your vibe. Curious and joyful in discovering something new when digging deeper. My favorite kind of person to learn from. I'm looking forward to checking out your earlier vids, and anything else you have coming down the pike!
Completely unrelated to the topic, but 'm a new subscriber and this video made me realize how much I appreciate a certain CZcams narration style. You and Chef John over at Foodwishes are some of the best vids to listen to. Thank you lol. Also no, I still don't have a clue how any of this works. Going to rewatch the vid multiple times with a notepad at hand.
I absolutely recommend looking up Dan Worrall. I found him because U-he (and Fabfilter if I remember correctly) hired him for tutorial videos/product overviews. He knows his stuff and has such a smooth, soothing voice.
And for a non-synth channel, 3blue1brown has a very similar narration style to this for his absolutely phenomenal math channel.
Thanks so much!
@pat2rome - It might not be a surprise that 3b1b was a big inspiration for me! Any comparison is a great compliment.
@@SoundVoltage compliment well-earned! The similarities go beyond narration. Like with his channel, I came away with a new understanding of something I thought I already knew very well here. I've subscribed and I'm currently watching the "Eurorack for beginners" series expecting the same to happen there too.
Wow, that was really interesting! I had no idea that sync was so complex, thanks for making this!
fantastic video. there's some really interesting stuff you can do with sync on Hydrasynth and applying some of these things you were talking about really has gotten some truly gnarly sounds out of it ❤
That's awesome! Glad it helped.
Interesting look at this topic! As sync is so closely related to the inner workings of the oscillator it only makes sense that they all sounded a bit different. When you think about it, resetting the waveform is what an analogue oscillator does to produce the waveform. I have a Instruo Cs-L and the two oscillators on it have different cores that produce wildly different timbres when synced. As the sync is based on some edge detection circuit, getting near its threshold and inverting rising and falling edges could potentially get some interesting unusual waveshapes.
Cool video man! It's interesting that you use a lower pitch following oscillator. When I first started experimenting with softsynths I quickly learned that doing that leads to weird things happening that weren't necessarily conducive to creating a consistently pitched sound, so I always used a higher pitch following oscillator instead. That way you modulate the pitch of the following oscillator just above the leading oscillator's pitch and get cool sounds. The other way is interesting too, though.
Brilliant,thank you so much. From an old beginner.
You're very welcome :)
This was such a helpful video. Thank you!!
That cleared up a lot and at the same time made me get up to experiment with my vcv rack. Also earned you a sub 😊
i love these technical explanation type videos
Great analysis. Thanks m'friend 👌
Really well done, thank you for taking the effort to make the lesson
I'm just glad people are liking it :)
wow loved that video, looking forward to the fm synthesis video !
Great video, i didn’t learn anything i haven’t observed but it certainly stamps some of the questions. I’d love to see some comparisons of different oscillator topologies and their hard sync behavior
I love this channel😌♥️
Thanks! ♥️
I simultaneously know more and less about sync now. I believe this to be the true nature of sync
That was definitely my experience making the video...
Loved this.
Very timely, I’ve been meaning to sit down and really mess with Osc sync!
Excellent stuff, VCO sync is underrated. Something I discovered is to use other sources of audio, anything with a more complex waveform than a simple repeating cycle like most VCOs is obviously harder to track, which produces a lot of noise. I made a disgusting guitar synth in VCV by patching the guitar signal into the sync inputs of a few different VCOs. It was uh, quite 'experimental'.
Great video. Thank you.
Great vid! I learned a lot. Clear description of a complex subject. Visuals were helpfully designed and presented
Thanks, I'm glad you found them helpful!
Would definitely be interested to learn how the syncing 'flips' and stretches a following triangle rather than restarting the wave cycle.
You might be interested in Roland's "Metal Sync" on the JX-3P and MKS-30. They use digital oscillators doing sawtooth waveforms by running an accumulator to ramp upward before resetting for the next cycle in normal usage. But for Metal Sync it resets the follower oscillator's accumulator to zero when the leader's phase / cycle resets, however the follower oscillator also still resets when it would have originally, so it's resetting on the cycles for both pitches. Google should return a nice write-up from electricdruid.
Oh that's interesting! I have a JX-8P here, but it looks like it didn't have the 'Metal' sync among it's options. I'll have to see if I can find one to mess with. Thanks!
very slight correction: the follower's *integrator* is reset, while the accumulator is left free running.
Different manufacturers have used very different circuits for the synchronization and one can already see from the schematics that the results won't be the same. That leads to more variety than a single scheme. I take it.
That was a big part of my research, and why I couldn't do much more than say "here it is in theory, and here are some examples from real synths...go explore yours". Heck, I was looking yesterday and the JX-3P and JX-8P have 7 sync options between them and some of them are unique to that one synth. Crazy.
@@SoundVoltage Yep. I always knew that the Oberheim sounded different, but I only understood why after looking at the circuits. Some options seem "better" than others, but at the end of the day even that is irrelevant if we look at the actual goal: to make good music. The B-52s, for instance, got extremely satisfying musical results out of the flimsiest sounding toy keyboards. Why? Because it is NOT the instrument that matters. It's what you do with it.
Man, you explained everything so well. I definitely would love an in depth video about the math behind it too if you ever plan to make it!!
A few people have asked, so I might have to do one! Damn me for offering! :)
Subbed because yes Sync is indeed total witchcraft and you have clearly passed the initiation.
Now someone needs to teach me the secret handshake...
Cool video. I've been usiong sync a lot in modular patches, but I never thought of inverting the master pulse.
Outstanding!
Thank you kindly!
Goooooordon!!!!! Thanks for the great vid!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great video.
Friendliest voice in synth tube and synth tube is a very friendly place 😊
This is quality. Congratulations.
Thank you very much!
When Behringer released the Neutron synth, many reviewers liked to claim that the OSC SYNC button didn't produce "real" sync, and I've seen oscilloscope traces much like the ones in this video (along with depictions of "real" sync) to bolster their claim. After watching this video, I'll assume the reviewers were ignorant, and not necessarily malicious.
All I really needed was that diagram at the beginning but seeing everything else following it, I realize my journey to become an electronic musician is probably going to become a lot more complicated that I could have anticipated. Hell yeah. And no!
Thumbs up 👍 before even watching the video. Oscillator sync sounds different in every oscillator I’ve ever synced, so it’s a deeper subject than it may seem to be …
Syncing is dope!!!
You got a subscriber in me! Love the visuals, you made a truly nebulous topic of synthesis make some intuitive sense. Great video. I do wish you went into a little more detail on soft sync - I've found that most videos seem to avoid this topic. I suppose there's a good reason for that given the varying nature of what soft sync looks like from oscillator to oscillator.
Thanks for the kind words. Maybe I'll come back to soft sync in a future video!
Please do the math video. Things like that really help me understand this stuff. Love this video and your approach - really works well for me. Thanks!
Great video. Subbed! Also, I love the comic book and Heinbach filler panels!
Absolutely excellently presented, added to my library of good synth stuff and subb’d 🎉
Thank you so much, I'm glad you liked it!
Great video. Osc sync is proper deep, need to dedicate a full session to experimenting with it some time soon. For some reason I'm feeling smarter and more attractive right now ...
Jan Hammer is the master of oscillator sync.
I often feel like, even with barely changing any other parameters, simply changing the sync between off, soft, and hard, for the furthrrrr generator (or other complex oscillators) produces really dramatic differences. You can virtually make whole different instrumentation sections of a song just through this.
great video, thanks!
Glad you liked it!
I thought I understood sync and now I don't) what's great is there's a lot more for me to explore now!
Bro!! This is awesome. Subbd.👍
I vote yes a video on the math on the 6:10 mark. Thank you! Great work!
Dude has a Heinbach spacer plate!
I don’t want to hold her down..✌️
I always thought soft sync is related to the threshold of the voltage - the waveform might reset, but not every time. Always felt there should be a knob instead of a sync button, but not entirely sure what that knob would do.
Anyway, there's a nice little trick: feeding it with an LFO, effectively stalling the oscillator, behaving like a crude VCA.
I have an lfo that can hit audible range. I use it to hard sync my 3340. As long as the lfo is a lower frequency than the 3340 it add lots of harmonics.
This was interesting and makes me want to understand and experiment with sync concepts more. You said your next videos will be on frequency modulation and another on fm synthesis. I thought that was just 2 ways to say the same thing. I’m looking forward to those videos to learn more!
@planetplex I'm differentiating here between just using the FM input on your oscillator and how an FM synth as a whole works. The second builds on the first. And actually after writing part of the script for the FM video I realized that I just need a "frequency" video before we start modulating. Especially in modular with the v/oct there's some stuff that isn't obvious but which we're going to take advantage of when we get to modulation. Look for that first one in a week or so!
happy to see you jammin, 15:28
Thanks :) It wasn't the most interesting jam, but it was fun to let it run. Performance/jam videos don't get many views at all, but I'm glad someone was watching this one at least!
now that I have 2 VCOs in my modular system (since I got the Ataraxic Iteritas Alia recently, and already got the Doepfer A 110-1), sync is something I'm planning to explore soon. So great timing here ^^
6:10 It’s immediately obvious from the Data that the follower is synchronising its end of cycle (EOC) to the leader rather than its start. I’m not sure why this is important- but it’s clearer to me why the Make Noise STO- with its prominent sync input- is the first oscillator to get sacked from my case whenever I need another 8hp!
I think generally soft sync could be described as some method of taming the (potential) discontinuity at the sync point, usually by applying a window function that fades the follower waveform in and out around that point.
A whole video on oscillator sync without showing the classic sync sound. Was that on purpose for people to discover it for themselves?
Your mind will go out the window when you hear it.
Anyway, it's a really good video, as usual. You're one of the best explaining things in the modular world.
The 3340 sync is really complex and doesn't fit the traditional description of sync. The illustration of the sync effects in the datasheet is a mess. The triangle core sync works by switching the slope of the triangle instead of resetting the voltage to 0. This ends up doing weird things in the triangle to saw converter which uses the slope of the triangle to activate an inverter. I think that the 3340 hard sync affects the saw directly.
Saw core oscillator sync is what you described at first and it works by shorting out the timing capacitor. It's much easier to understand and demonstrate.
Great job on the sync on the 3340. The 3340 has four modes of sync per the datasheet (!!) and you've got a couple of them down with this video. Most 3340-based eurorack modules offer one or two of these modes.
What's shown are the "positive hard sync" and "negative hard sync" types of '3340 sync. Positive sync changes direction of a rising (and only a rising) triangle. Negative sync flips direction of the output when (and only when) the triangle is falling. One interesting thing not shown is you can use both positive & negative hard sync at the same time, that can lead to some interesting results.
The SSI2130 is more traditional at soft & hard sync, that would be a good chip to compare sync against. On that chip soft sync will change direction of the falling triangle _if_ the output is falling. Hard sync will reset the oscillator regardless of phase. I've got some example videos of both with scope shots.
Very cool - can you share the vids?
@@PeterJnicol not sure if it's allowing me to put links to share. They're on my channel, not a lot of videos there so should be easy to find.
Very good point to make about 334x series chips, their ability to do negative and positive sync at the same time is one of their most fascinating qualities for me. I am actually building a synth right now that will hopefully abuse this feature to the limit with a full pos-neg hard-soft sequencer, to create long strings of phase-locked sync pulses under multiple arrangements. I watched your vid on Zoxnoxious build and its been a bit of further inspiration towards my project! Never through to do multiple vertical boards slotted into a master bus, definitely a major space saver, may steal that idea if allowed lmao!
@@wertyvk9667 grab the designs, it's not stealing if it's open source :) (within limits of the license!). Besides the deep dive vids, I hope you found videos of the pos/neg sync. They're on the channel too if you hunt around.
@@UltraTroninator Yeah I did! I love that dense sync sound, big fan!
"Ring Modulation Sync" sounds like it would be a good topic.
I'll put it on the list!
So, I should wash my sequence, in the oscillator sync?
Then dry it on the Eurorack?
Will try some sync tricks on my 2600. Thanks
Now drop that oscillator into the LFO range and add some CV over the attenuvertor of leader..for analog oscillators with multiple waveform outputs you now have a plorethra of harmonically related modulations.