That is a beautiful dog and Ellis does a great job teaching this guy to learn to handle his dog. I started using a prong on my dog and contrary to popular belief and the stigma that is associated with them, prongs allow for easier communocation with a dog when used correctly. If you think that a prong is cruel and barbaric, then you have obviously never watched a mother with her pups. She nips her pups to correct and teach them. Which is where the idea for prong collars came from. A dogs teeth are also sharp and the prongs aren't. Unfortunately, many countries are moving to ban the prong collar, increasing the fear and hatred of it instead of educating people in the correct usage of the tool. And that's exactly what it is; a tool. If you have never used a prong or seen what a prong collar can do for a dog, then I suggest you become truly informed before making pointess comments.
The dog only whimpers when Michael handles him, not when owner does. Why is that? Maybe knows, trusts, and I’d loyal to owner. Excellent lesson. Love seeing Michael hands on with a student and dog. Thank you!
I have watched several of the Michael Ellis training videos with you. Your puppy is one handsome German Shepherd Dog. I like his temperament. Who is his breeder?
really, the prong should have been placed on the "dead ring"...connect larger 0 ring to smaller correction or D ring....any time i teach something new, until i put in hundreds of reps...i use the dead ring or a flat/slip collar/lead. just what I do.
@MakoCheese Hi, you don't get what I was trying to say sorry. I can teach any dog to heal with out a correction collar. Correction base training is totally out dated. That's all I meant to say.
@MakoCheese True some dogs need to learn pressure. I run dog sled teams. They handle physical and mental pressure all the time. They know to go with the natural instincts of opposition reflex for the sled work. They pull against the pressure as any dog naturally does. Teaching to release leash pressure by returning is good. Heal position is needed tho for the focus, positioning and control of the dog. The dog looks happy. I get the dealing with mild stress I have worked with many dogs that have coping issue. Other than abuse the majority just needed to build self confidence and confidence in the handlers. A correction collar seems to negate that. Wouldn't a buckle down work just as fine? Again l love your techniques was just wondering if I was missing something here.
You missed the concept of leash pressure here. Leash pressure is teaching the dog to shut off pressure and teaching the dog to follow the leash. This is a skill you teach a dog to help them learn and help build a clear communication with the dog. You say correction that would imply what’s being used is negative punishment. This is not negative punishment because if we were punishing something we would be trying to stop a behavior. What’s being used here is negative reinforcement plus positive reinforcement. Pressure comes on I am removing my dogs ability to do anything else but follow the leash. My dog gives in boom pressure comes off my dog just got positive reinforcement by the pressure coming off. This could be done on a prong, martingale , even a slip lead it all depends on the dog. Remember adversity is what the dog sees as adverse not what we humans see as advise. This isn’t how he teaches heeling but more loose leash walking which are completely different. Now you can put this into heeling with your dog to help them understand the position but it’s not how it’s starts.
As a pretty god amateur handler of dogs (some fairly tough and active), I see the owner of the dog as a wimpy guy. A person with his dog and a professional handler (like Ellis) , knowing the dog is a young and active GSD should not stand there helplessly with his hands in his pockets. Common sense tells one that trying to handle a young GSD (developed to work and do dangerous jobs) is not a good match for an unskilled dog owner. The fellow should have sought help choosing a pet dog from an experienced trainer. This owner is headed for trouble unless he persists and pays a true training pro for lessons.
I dont think the unskilled part is neccessarily true, i think it requires a certain temperament of human to have a shepherd. Either that or the shepherd needs to be picked out of the litter to suit the person. So this guy could do with having a less boistrous dog maybe? But i agree with the other comment, the guy has gone to a world class trainer to ask for help in improving how he handles the dog so regardless of that he is already ahead of most people as far as im concerned. And michaels school is expensive too so he definitely wants to improve
A young active gsd can be a handful. Unlike most of the dofusses who dump their their large unmanageable dogs at my shelter, the GUY IS TRYING to learn.
sorry but if you are a good trainer then you would be able to do it without a prong. heck you would tell the owner not to use one. so tired of seeing all these prongs on dogs. yes I know about training. I have raised, trained, compete in SchH with my GSDS for 32 years. never ever used one.
+Mona B Prong collars aren't bad - they mimic "mom's don't do that!" bite if used correctly. My GSD is insane and while he had Giardia after we got him, that left him with a sensitive tummy beyond a normal GSD. NOTHING could get him to STOP EATING EVERYTHING OFF THE GROUND. Dog Poop. Rabbit Poop. Prairie Dog Poop. Dirt. Grass. He became REALLY quick at snatching it off the ground to avoid being pulled away before he could get it - he knew he wasn't supposed to - and he was 4 months old. I became amazing at opening his mouth and making him spit whatever, out again. After nearly two months of frustration, I gave in. Two days with a prong collar and he stopped pulling and eating things off the ground. That was it. I think you have to know what you're doing, and you have to realize that you cannot have a dog trained without SOME negative reinforcement. Not all dogs can be trained without one. They're not cruel either. Next time you're at a pet store, put one around your neck - or wrist if that makes you more comfortable... and pull. You'll see it doesn't hurt you, either. It's just a "oh, hey - i should listen to what's going on" My GSD has a slip chain, prong, harness, and E-collar - and all have their uses. If we go to the dog park, he wears the prong, e-collar and harness. The harness is because he's still only 8 months old and gets jumpy - the harness allows myself and other people to hold him if he needs to settle, or pull him off of kids [why the hell people bring 18 months old to a dog park is beyond me]. The prong is to remind him going in and out of the park he is with ME and not to tear off into the road. The E-Collar is to get him to head my way when he decides he doesn't want to after he's been called. We've only had to use it twice. Next pup you get, try the prong collar and you'll see you get better, more consistent results faster because you are EFFECTIVELY communicating to the dog. Hell, I think it's torture to not use all the tools at your disposal to communicate with a dog. Dogs whine to show displeasure - and they're known to over-react. Especially if they learn that overreaction yields a greater reward to them. My sisters dog FREAKS if he sees a nail clipper. And YOWLS in pain terror each time we cut our own nails, let alone his. The "click" sound makes him think we're killing him. :) You have GSDs, you know they have that whistle whine down pat! Check out more of Michael Ellis' work - you'll see he really does care about dogs, and he really knows what he's doing.
This is stupid and abusive! Your dragging that puppy by a prong collar? I recommend everyone watch Kikopup's video on leash pressure. The mechanics and directions are MUCH clearer and there is less chance of you causing permanent damage to your dog. :/
Kikopup is awesome :) I would only use something like this as the very last resort... Other than this and the e collar use by this trainer, I mostly agree with what he does. At least he uses a lot of positiveness too :)
as a trainer I don't use prong collars because they are severely looked down upon in my community, but in reality they are less severe than chokers. I've had a prong collar around my forearm and leg to see what it feels like and it's really nothing. It's a tool that can be abused, but used correctly I don't see much issue with it. The leash pressure technique, however, is really useful. I use it, but just with regular collars. It helps with dogs that always want to bolt on the leash. It doesn't teach heeling alone, so it's important to understand that this technique is used in conjunction with other heeling techniques.
In the book 'Manual of Clinical Behavioral Medicine for Dogs and Cats', choke and prong collars are STRONGLY not recommended. This is a book written by one the leading veterinary behaviorists in the country. This is someone with years of scientific research and real life experience working with dogs from all spectrum. That is what I am going to trust. The thing is, that collars, including prongs have been linked with hypothyroidism, damage to the trachea, increased ocular pressure, scarring, and can absolutely INCREASE aggression. If you love your dog, why use a tool that can potentially cause permanent harm? It is akin to not putting your child in a safety seat. They MIGHT not be hurt this time, but is it worth it?
April VanBuren meh, the prong is really not that bad. It's less severe than the choker despite its menacing look. During my training education I was asked to put it on my thigh and forearm so I could feel the difference between correct and incorrect applications. Proper application really feels like nothing. I assume that's because the force is so widely distributed. I don't use it because people look down upon it but dogs with low sensitivity and high independence could benefit from it provided their training is operant conditioning and not entirely aversive.
Wow this is one of the silliest "training" methods I've ever seen... pulling the dog around doesn't teach loose leash. Maybe the pain of the prong collar might cause the dog to move with him here, but there are so many ways to train a dog without inflicting pain. Utterly ridiculous method.
You completely misunderstand the training. They are not training this dog to walk with a loose leash. They are training the dog to give to leash pressure. The end result is a dog who learns to pay attention to the leash, move and accept guidance from the smallest of movements from the leash. The natural reaction for dogs and humans is to pull away from pressure/to counter pressure. If someone grabs your arm you yank it back. Dogs institutionally do the same. By teaching the dog to key into small bits of pressure on the leash you can guide the dog and change the dogs position using the smallest of moments just how a dancer would accept a lead from their partner in an choreographed dance.
this is appalling. I am not against correction but this prong collar was not needed for this dog. the dog would have complied anyway. this is cruel and unnecessary. correction is ONLY needed if a dog already knows and understands a command and chooses to disobey. shame on you Michael Ellis
very minimal whining...it's not like he's yanking on the leash. How do you know the dog is distressed? Looks like he is having a blast eating all those treats. I use a prong collar because athletic, high energy, working dogs can be very stubborn to train and control. It doesn't even phase my Dutch Shepherd. Walks are much more enjoyable and the constant pulling has ceased because she feels the pressure tighten up gradually. I don't EVER yank on it. Have you seen how people treat race horses? Have you seen how people treat dogs in puppy mills? If you think this is appalling you should come live in my world and do 3 deployments to Iraq and see how Iraqis treat dogs. The dog in this video is loved so much by his owner that he's taking him to get professional training which means he cares about his dog. Get over it....dogs are animals and can handle a little bit of discomfort in order to improve behavior.
That is a beautiful dog and Ellis does a great job teaching this guy to learn to handle his dog.
I started using a prong on my dog and contrary to popular belief and the stigma that is associated with them, prongs allow for easier communocation with a dog when used correctly.
If you think that a prong is cruel and barbaric, then you have obviously never watched a mother with her pups. She nips her pups to correct and teach them. Which is where the idea for prong collars came from. A dogs teeth are also sharp and the prongs aren't.
Unfortunately, many countries are moving to ban the prong collar, increasing the fear and hatred of it instead of educating people in the correct usage of the tool. And that's exactly what it is; a tool. If you have never used a prong or seen what a prong collar can do for a dog, then I suggest you become truly informed before making pointess comments.
The dog only whimpers when Michael handles him, not when owner does. Why is that? Maybe knows, trusts, and I’d loyal to owner. Excellent lesson. Love seeing Michael hands on with a student and dog. Thank you!
I have watched several of the Michael Ellis training videos with you. Your puppy is one handsome German Shepherd Dog. I like his temperament. Who is his breeder?
Interesting. Is this a group training or seminar? Do the other observers have their dogs with them too?
Excellent example demonstrating how negative reinforcement works without harshness.
what is mechanics?
can you do this without a prong for a sensitive dog/puppy?
really, the prong should have been placed on the "dead ring"...connect larger 0 ring to smaller correction or D ring....any time i teach something new, until i put in hundreds of reps...i use the dead ring or a flat/slip collar/lead. just what I do.
at what age should you start leash pressure exercises?
Soon as possible
Not before 6 months
What kind of color is he wearing
Collar
omg its xlnt how you teach handler amen
No, Thank you.
OK Love the techniques he has. But one question please. Why a correction collar? You can do this without being physical.
@MakoCheese Hi, you don't get what I was trying to say sorry. I can teach any dog to heal with out a correction collar. Correction base training is totally out dated. That's all I meant to say.
@MakoCheese True some dogs need to learn pressure. I run dog sled teams. They handle physical and mental pressure all the time. They know to go with the natural instincts of opposition reflex for the sled work. They pull against the pressure as any dog naturally does. Teaching to release leash pressure by returning is good. Heal position is needed tho for the focus, positioning and control of the dog. The dog looks happy.
I get the dealing with mild stress I have worked with many dogs that have coping issue. Other than abuse the majority just needed to build self confidence and confidence in the handlers. A correction collar seems to negate that. Wouldn't a buckle down work just as fine? Again l love your techniques was just wondering if I was missing something here.
You missed the concept of leash pressure here. Leash pressure is teaching the dog to shut off pressure and teaching the dog to follow the leash. This is a skill you teach a dog to help them learn and help build a clear communication with the dog. You say correction that would imply what’s being used is negative punishment. This is not negative punishment because if we were punishing something we would be trying to stop a behavior. What’s being used here is negative reinforcement plus positive reinforcement. Pressure comes on I am removing my dogs ability to do anything else but follow the leash. My dog gives in boom pressure comes off my dog just got positive reinforcement by the pressure coming off. This could be done on a prong, martingale , even a slip lead it all depends on the dog. Remember adversity is what the dog sees as adverse not what we humans see as advise. This isn’t how he teaches heeling but more loose leash walking which are completely different. Now you can put this into heeling with your dog to help them understand the position but it’s not how it’s starts.
As a pretty god amateur handler of dogs (some fairly tough and active), I see the owner of the dog as a wimpy guy. A person with his dog and a professional handler (like Ellis) , knowing the dog is a young and active GSD should not stand there helplessly with his hands in his pockets. Common sense tells one that trying to handle a young GSD (developed to work and do dangerous jobs) is not a good match for an unskilled dog owner. The fellow should have sought help choosing a pet dog from an experienced trainer. This owner is headed for trouble unless he persists and pays a true training pro for lessons.
I’m sure Ellis is aware of the wimpy guy. Th dude is better suited for a pug lol
When you say he should go to a pro for lessons, isn't he doing that in the video.
I dont think the unskilled part is neccessarily true, i think it requires a certain temperament of human to have a shepherd. Either that or the shepherd needs to be picked out of the litter to suit the person. So this guy could do with having a less boistrous dog maybe? But i agree with the other comment, the guy has gone to a world class trainer to ask for help in improving how he handles the dog so regardless of that he is already ahead of most people as far as im concerned. And michaels school is expensive too so he definitely wants to improve
A young active gsd can be a handful. Unlike most of the dofusses who dump their their large unmanageable dogs at my shelter, the GUY IS TRYING to learn.
Anyone willing to take the class is admirable. And I’m glad he did because I’m learning a lot by this example. Affords us a good opportunity to learn.
The person should learn the cor
rect mechanics first, before handling the dog.
sorry but if you are a good trainer then you would be able to do it without a prong. heck you would tell the owner not to use one. so tired of seeing all these prongs on dogs. yes I know about training. I have raised, trained, compete in SchH with my GSDS for 32 years. never ever used one.
+Mona B Prong collars aren't bad - they mimic "mom's don't do that!" bite if used correctly. My GSD is insane and while he had Giardia after we got him, that left him with a sensitive tummy beyond a normal GSD. NOTHING could get him to STOP EATING EVERYTHING OFF THE GROUND. Dog Poop. Rabbit Poop. Prairie Dog Poop. Dirt. Grass. He became REALLY quick at snatching it off the ground to avoid being pulled away before he could get it - he knew he wasn't supposed to - and he was 4 months old. I became amazing at opening his mouth and making him spit whatever, out again. After nearly two months of frustration, I gave in. Two days with a prong collar and he stopped pulling and eating things off the ground. That was it.
I think you have to know what you're doing, and you have to realize that you cannot have a dog trained without SOME negative reinforcement. Not all dogs can be trained without one. They're not cruel either. Next time you're at a pet store, put one around your neck - or wrist if that makes you more comfortable... and pull. You'll see it doesn't hurt you, either. It's just a "oh, hey - i should listen to what's going on"
My GSD has a slip chain, prong, harness, and E-collar - and all have their uses. If we go to the dog park, he wears the prong, e-collar and harness. The harness is because he's still only 8 months old and gets jumpy - the harness allows myself and other people to hold him if he needs to settle, or pull him off of kids [why the hell people bring 18 months old to a dog park is beyond me]. The prong is to remind him going in and out of the park he is with ME and not to tear off into the road. The E-Collar is to get him to head my way when he decides he doesn't want to after he's been called. We've only had to use it twice.
Next pup you get, try the prong collar and you'll see you get better, more consistent results faster because you are EFFECTIVELY communicating to the dog. Hell, I think it's torture to not use all the tools at your disposal to communicate with a dog.
Dogs whine to show displeasure - and they're known to over-react. Especially if they learn that overreaction yields a greater reward to them. My sisters dog FREAKS if he sees a nail clipper. And YOWLS in pain terror each time we cut our own nails, let alone his. The "click" sound makes him think we're killing him. :) You have GSDs, you know they have that whistle whine down pat!
Check out more of Michael Ellis' work - you'll see he really does care about dogs, and he really knows what he's doing.
We'd love to see videos of you working your dogs, training your dogs and your scores. Let us decide how well your methods work.
hahaha...what other aversive tools do you use?.....how many titles do you have?
This is stupid and abusive! Your dragging that puppy by a prong collar? I recommend everyone watch Kikopup's video on leash pressure. The mechanics and directions are MUCH clearer and there is less chance of you causing permanent damage to your dog. :/
Kikopup is awesome :) I would only use something like this as the very last resort... Other than this and the e collar use by this trainer, I mostly agree with what he does. At least he uses a lot of positiveness too :)
And he does have a video where he says not to use prongs on nervous or shy dogs.... But I still don't like it.
as a trainer I don't use prong collars because they are severely looked down upon in my community, but in reality they are less severe than chokers. I've had a prong collar around my forearm and leg to see what it feels like and it's really nothing. It's a tool that can be abused, but used correctly I don't see much issue with it. The leash pressure technique, however, is really useful. I use it, but just with regular collars. It helps with dogs that always want to bolt on the leash. It doesn't teach heeling alone, so it's important to understand that this technique is used in conjunction with other heeling techniques.
In the book 'Manual of Clinical Behavioral Medicine for Dogs and Cats', choke and prong collars are STRONGLY not recommended. This is a book written by one the leading veterinary behaviorists in the country. This is someone with years of scientific research and real life experience working with dogs from all spectrum. That is what I am going to trust.
The thing is, that collars, including prongs have been linked with hypothyroidism, damage to the trachea, increased ocular pressure, scarring, and can absolutely INCREASE aggression. If you love your dog, why use a tool that can potentially cause permanent harm? It is akin to not putting your child in a safety seat. They MIGHT not be hurt this time, but is it worth it?
April VanBuren
meh, the prong is really not that bad. It's less severe than the choker despite its menacing look. During my training education I was asked to put it on my thigh and forearm so I could feel the difference between correct and incorrect applications. Proper application really feels like nothing. I assume that's because the force is so widely distributed. I don't use it because people look down upon it but dogs with low sensitivity and high independence could benefit from it provided their training is operant conditioning and not entirely aversive.
Wow this is one of the silliest "training" methods I've ever seen... pulling the dog around doesn't teach loose leash. Maybe the pain of the prong collar might cause the dog to move with him here, but there are so many ways to train a dog without inflicting pain. Utterly ridiculous method.
You completely misunderstand the training. They are not training this dog to walk with a loose leash. They are training the dog to give to leash pressure. The end result is a dog who learns to pay attention to the leash, move and accept guidance from the smallest of movements from the leash. The natural reaction for dogs and humans is to pull away from pressure/to counter pressure. If someone grabs your arm you yank it back. Dogs institutionally do the same. By teaching the dog to key into small bits of pressure on the leash you can guide the dog and change the dogs position using the smallest of moments just how a dancer would accept a lead from their partner in an choreographed dance.
this is appalling. I am not against correction but this prong collar was not needed for this dog. the dog would have complied anyway. this is cruel and unnecessary. correction is ONLY needed if a dog already knows and understands a command and chooses to disobey. shame on you Michael Ellis
this is not appalling....light pressure will not hurt the dog. chill the fuck out.
Then why is the dog crying and looking distressed?
very minimal whining...it's not like he's yanking on the leash. How do you know the dog is distressed? Looks like he is having a blast eating all those treats. I use a prong collar because athletic, high energy, working dogs can be very stubborn to train and control. It doesn't even phase my Dutch Shepherd. Walks are much more enjoyable and the constant pulling has ceased because she feels the pressure tighten up gradually. I don't EVER yank on it. Have you seen how people treat race horses? Have you seen how people treat dogs in puppy mills? If you think this is appalling you should come live in my world and do 3 deployments to Iraq and see how Iraqis treat dogs. The dog in this video is loved so much by his owner that he's taking him to get professional training which means he cares about his dog. Get over it....dogs are animals and can handle a little bit of discomfort in order to improve behavior.
Hmmm... so a charity that tries to end animal suffering is puke. That comment says everything about you Warsteiner.
probably a liberal who will vote for Hillary....God help us all.