Remington Cartridge Conversion Systems.mov
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- čas přidán 2. 08. 2024
- This tutorial explains the different ways of converting a Remington New Model Army Revolver, also known as the 1858 Remington, to fire standard .45 Colt cartridges. In the video we'll examine the R&D conversion cylinders made by Kenny Howell of Howell's Old West Conversions, as well as the drip in cylinders made by Walt Kirst. We'll look at Kirst conversion cylinders that have a loading gate installed on the conversion ring as well as those without a gate. Finally we'll look at a factory made cartridge conversion revolver from Uberti.
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I got my "Taylor style" drop in cylinder from Brownell's, decades ago. Absolutely love it. My rather messy cap and ball revolver now shoots nice, clean .45 drop in cartridges. (This can be done because those barrels, any of 'em, generally mike out at about .451.)
I love my Kirst conversion with the loading gate. Took me a while to complete it because I waited a couple of years to get to ejector. Now it’s my favorite firearm and I have a PX Storm .40 cal.
Note that if the cylinder you're using has the same safety notches as the standard cylinder, you can safely load all 6 shots and use one of these notches to rest the hammer between to chambers. Hope this helps
This comment would've been helpful ...before I shot my damn foot off lol
Wow what a great video explaining these different cartridge conversions. Thanks.
Thanks for the post Mike. I've been contemplating buying a conversion. Your video helped me decide to get one.
Excellent video. The New Model caught my eye recently, and I had questions about it that this video very neatly explains. It makes my choice much easier. Thanks.
In the video I'm shooting 6-shot .45 Colt cylinders with the angled chambers. The 6-shot .44 Colt cylinders have straight chambers. Because they are chambered for .44 calibers cartridges, but the bore is .452", you need either heel based bullets or hollow based bullets. This set up s actually more historically accurate for converted Remingtons.
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Great work Mike, This video answered a lot of questions...
Outstanding video. Very informative while also being entertaining and interesting
Very interesting and informative thank you for the well made video.
That was a great post. I have a Pietta M1858. Was thinking about conversion but still enjoy the percussion use.
fun fact about the remington 1858: those rectangular cuts on the back of the cylinder between the nipples are specifically for the hammer to rest in, allowing you to carry it safely with six shots loaded. you can also see the cut outs on the Howell backplate.
This was an awesome video. Very educational and I learned a lot. Thank you very much
Very good demonstration and tutorials. Thanks
Just completed one for a customer. turned out great!
Kirst makes a .45 ACP conversion. They shoot just fine in the Remingtons.
Hi. I was wondering if you knew if it was ok to shoot a 45 ACP FMJ or does it have to be soft lead only. I have a 45 acp Howell conversion cylinder for mine and I've been told that it's fine to use then others say only soft lead. I'd like to know your thoughts on it if you can. Thank you.
@@PlatinumPizza personally I would only use lead.
Thank you for all the information and great videos!
The R&D cylinders are proofed for modern, smokeless ammo loaded to SAAMMI standards. You can shoot any non-+P stuff in it.
I have a 3220 revolver how can I get bullets?
Great video sir! I'm looking forward to getting a Kirst Konverter for a 1851 navy. Aloha
First of all, no brass framed revolver is safe to fire with cartridges...Period.
not even lighter load cartridges?
Is it not just the trigger guard that’s brass here and the frame steel?
I have been looking at all the sites that sell the 1858 with conversion and have been trying to figure out if the cylinder was still removable, thanks great video
Great video, thanks for the info. I have a CVA/ASM Remington that I'm going to convert to a cartridge gun for cowboy action shooting.
Thanks for a very informative video! At 5:33 you began explaining how the R&D conversion is bored off-center to make room for the 45 Colt cartridge rim, it seems like that would make the bullet hit the forcing cone at an angle possibly causing damage or uneven wear. A simpler solution would have been for R&D to straight bore the cylinder for 45 ACP rounds with the added benefit of less expensive widely available ammunition.
The 45 Colt centerfire was made available in 1873. While the Colt 45 ACP was made available in 1911...where would the historical significance lie since there were conversions available DURING and after 1873 so that Colt could sell all of the overstocked percussion revolver frames and parts? They did an excellent job of staying in business in spite of the Smith and Wesson bullery, as a matter of historical fact :)
I work at a store that has a Uberti NMA in and I put it on layaway - was really hoping I could swap cylinders a la Pale Rider and shoot percussion if I wanted to, thanks for showing I can't do that! I've been trying to find out for a while now.
It was helpful thanks. I'm looking at Howell as I type this :)
With a small set screw through the flat end of the base pin, bearing on the barrel.
Thank you sir. What a nice video.
I just subscribed.
Great video, very informative.
I shoot 255 grain bullets in .45 Colt and my guns are very accurate with the conversion cylinders.
Thanks again on great video I priced the pietta (black powder) and the r&d (howell) cylinder and it is still $150.00 cheaper then the factory conversion .And I do want to be able to go back and forth b/p to cartridge and I all so like the "cleaner" look of the r&d ,again thanks very helpful.
I find that you will usually need an ejector. It will work with any factory loaded .45 ACP rounds.
Thanks for the info!
as always great video !!!!
Thanks man, excellent Video
Combined with the comments section, the overview at this link is about as comprehensive as it gets, for a 15 minute CZcams video. Thank you!
I wish the ruger old army was capable of a "loading gate style drop in conversion" version of the conversion
Hi Mike, the gunsmith at Taylor told me that the early bolt rise with their conversion cylinder is normal and desired to ensure that the cylinder doesn't over-rotate when cocking fast. The short cylinder bolt drag line is only cosmetic since the cylinder is a 100kpsi steel, the drag just leaves a superficial mark in the bluing.
The Taylor (R&D) cylinders now have a small cutout at the case head location where a user can see if there is a cartridge loaded.
I ordered a 2nd R&D cylinder.
Richard
Thank you for a great vid!!
I must say that the newest version of the conversion cylinder (which I just bought) is nicer. It has small cuts around the outside so you can see which chambers are loaded.
Very good video thanks Mike.
Beautiful gun
I have question.......can spare cylinders be purchased for purposes of reloading this weapon, like Clint Eastwood in Pale Rider?
Yes.
Yes but they're held together by the frame of the revolver so you wouldn't have to be careful with how you store them
Yup
could you do a video on how to cut the frame to fit cartrages and the rebluing
Very well portrayed.
It was a remove the cylinder deal...still faster than reloading cap & ball.
True, but loading premade combustible cartridges is faster too
i have the r&d and your right about the accuracy its unbelievable really for what it is. 100 yard plate shots i can do that with an yother pistol
Awesome video. Thsnks !
Yes the conversion cylinders can handle the pressure of factory smokeless loads
In low dose, under 900 square feet per minute
@@johnjohnon8767 800 to 850 feet per second, not 900 fps and using lead bullets.
I'll give it some thought.
Most Excellent!
Excelente, linda arma👏👏
Thanks so much for the comparison. It answered a large number of my questions. :-)
Hi Mike, I recently got a Taylor 6rd conversion cylinder to use in my 3 very well timed Pietta Remys. I was disappointed to find that with each revolver the bolt would disengage as the hammer goes forward. The problem is that the depth of the bolt groove in the conversion cylinder is 0.026" while the Pietta cylinder is 0.063". That keeps the bolt from rising high enough for the bolt leg to fully snap over the hammer cam. I found that beveling the bolt leg somewhat fixed the problem.
Sounds interesting
Hey Mike, this in-depth video was real helpful with explaining the details of cartridge conversions. I was going to go black powder but have since learned that most ranges here in southern California are indoor and don't allow black powder. I guess its because of all the smoke.
I noticed even when you were firing the conversions, there was still a lot of smoke. Is that due to the "cowboy rounds" needed for these guns? Smoke might still be problematic to indoor range operators. Are there smokeless rounds can be used?
Is there a tutorial video of the required drilling of the loading gate on a Pietta 1858 Remington New Army revolver?
Sorry to hear that. I have three Pietta Taylor's cylinders and I've had no problem with any of mine. Though mine are about 10 years old, so they might have changed their machining processes.
I like the R&D cylinder the best because you can have several cap and ball as was as cartridge cylinders already loaded on your belt. Not that I would need all that firepower in modern times, but I would definitely keep a second R&D cylinder already loaded.
I recently ordered me an Uberti 1858 Remington style new model army .44 caliber revolver from Dixie gun works online and a Howell .45 colt cartridge conversion cylinder from midway USA online and received them this past Tuesday. I live in MA. and even in MA. I could get them shipped to my address in Springfield. The conversion cylinder fit perfectly. I made an unboxing video and posted it on my channel. However to get the .45 colt 200 grain cowboy load cartridges I had to drive 275 miles to the cabelas in Hamburg PA. on Thursday. I called ahead on Wednesday afternoon and they was expecting a shipment to come in on Thursday so I took a gamble and rented a car Thursday morning about 10:45 and headed out there. I had spoken to a guy named Bruce in the ammo department and he said to ask for him when I got there. After a 4 and a half hour drive I got there and after asking a few ppl in the firearms department where Bruce was I found him in a group of 3 guys on the floor in cabelas worker’s shirts and he had set aside their last 2 boxes of HSM .45 colt 200 grain cowboy load cartridges for me. I then had a successful ammo run celebration meal at the nearby Cracker Barrel and headed back 275 miles to Springfield MA.
Wow!
Do you redd up the smokeless powder residue in a cap and ball revolver shooting smokeless cowboy loads in a conversion cylinder with hoppes number 9 like a modern gun? Also should I swab the bore and chambers of the conversion cylinder with some dry patches before loading the cartridges in the conversion cylinder to dry up oil?
@@Matzah1982 I always de-grease new guns, or gun parts with Acetone before shooting, then oil with gun oil, where appropriate. Yes, you can clean with smokeless solvents if you’re shooting smokeless ammo. Boy, I haven’t heard red up in awhile. That’s old school Pennsylvania talk.
I’m originally from Martinsburg WV. so not too far from yinz up yonder in PA. I’ve lived up north in MA. for about 11 years now. Thank you for the advice. I already swabbed the bore and the chambers of both the percussion cylinder and the conversion cylinder and I oiled the bore but then before loading I swabbed the bore with a couple of dry patches and I did the same with the conversion cylinder because oil can seap into the primers over time and turn them into duds
Mr. Beliveau I really appreciate your knowledge of old school firearms. Being new to using cartridge conversion cylinders on Remington style cap and ball revolvers I have a question about oiling. I used to heavily oil cap and ball revolvers after cleaning with both hoppes gun oil and wd40 but now I know with cartridge ammo it’s not good to do that. However I have some gun oil on the cylinder pin of my Uberti Remington style repro with the Howell .45 colt cartridge conversion cylinder in it and I notice a slight film of oil on the plate where the firing pins are and on the back of the cylinder where the rims of the cartridges are but I don’t notice any oil on the cartridges. Will this cause any difficulties with discharge or performance when shooting?
would you recommend the 45 acp or 45 lc conversion , if so would i be able to use the inexpensive 18 bucks for a box of 50 rounds with it? thanks
If you want it as a working gun, I'd go the conversion route. There's a reason people stopped using C&B when cartridges came out.
Thanks, interesting vid !
I also prefer the R&D cylinder, but I recommend you go to Taylor's & Co. they bought the patent on the six-shot R&D cylinders. I'd get a 6-shot vs a 5-shot.
Again another awesome video I'm looking at a"used" pietta new army today looks very nice and I was looking at the conversion cylinder I like R&D one better (personal preference) .But the one I saw on line 45 colt was 5 shot? It was at Buffalo arms company . Again very helpful.
They are a drop-in part, but if you want to load cartridges with the cylinder installed, you need to cut a loading port in the recoil shield
Mike, I just got my Howell conversion and the tolerance is pretty tight. Do you find that the cylinder fits easier the more you use it? Timing seems to be right on though.
I wish you would do a video for the 1860 colt like this.
mindakota1 Look at these czcams.com/video/Agpo3HLSAdo/video.html czcams.com/video/LS5h_MHRg3w/video.html czcams.com/video/tFHe4TNfc1M/video.html
Very interesting 🧐
Thank you very well done.. For some years I wondered about those conversions.. That cleats up the mystery for me.. But it leaves me with a question.?. Have you found the Taylor or the brand to be out of "time" when installed ?
I just thought about that.. It shouldn't be a problem.. Thanks that was great information.. Clears up a lot for me.
Norman Mallory I have never had a timing problem with Taylor’s Remington conversion.
Thanks
I have a pair of them...I like 'em.
Could you grind it off to eliminate scratching?
Also, one thing I've noticed with the Howell's is that the hammer doesn't bottom out on the frame like it does in cap and ball mode. All the energy looks like it is transferred to the primer of the cartridge, which is (I guess) a good thing for the longevity of the frame.
good job
This is my EDC !
I noticed in this video as well as other videos of yours (big fan by the way) that your R&D conversion cylinders have the "safety" notches on the back plate just like the black powder cylinder. I recently ordered one and when I got it it didn't have the notches I was wondering if they changed the way they were making them or if you modified yours? Seeing as I've watched many of your videos where you've customized your guns.
Thank you kind sir
They are all made by the same company; Uberti. Cimarron, or Taylor's & Co carry them I believe. And you could check with Uberti USA
To continue: The cylinder lockup is now good, but timing with the conversion cylinder is for an early bolt drop. The timing for the Pietta cylinder is still very good, but the Taylor cyl bolt drop is ~3/32" early. A very short cylinder drag line is now visible. Early is safer than late, but not what I expected.
I shot .45 Colt (250gr Laser Cast with 4.6gr Trailboss) with good results. It's the first time a BP revolver came home clean!
I still need to gunsmith the other 2 1858 for the Taylor.
Taylor's will have one on the market in a month or so.
Mike, any tricks on how to "easily" remove the original cylinder once you've pushed it too far into the frame and now have the hand protruding into the center hole of the cylinder where the cylinder pin is supposed to go? I don't believe there is enough of an angle on the side of the hand to force it to retract while continuing to push the cylinder out the other side of the frame. I wonder if that ever happened in the heat of battle. Thanks.
When will the patent on the half-degree offset for those 6-shot cylinders expire? I'd like to see a kirst conversion style gated-kit with the full 6-round half degree offset... It would make a TON of sense, as you'd have more room I would think to get the rounds in/out of the chamber easier, as long as you could locate the push-rod properly, no?
So you can leave the Kirst back plate off and insert it in the factory conversion model and it's attached gated back plate will function properly with the Kirst cylinder? Again thanks for the video. I've looked awhile for an explanation of these guns and cylinders and have only found your video which is extremely helpful.
thanks for the info i will go with steel
Steel frame is a good idea for ANY Cap & Ball revolver you actually intend to shoot very much, not just for one you intend to use a conversion cylinder with.
Brass frames don't have a long life if used for much more than hanging on a wall to look at.
The Confederate revolver makers used brass frames because most of the steel production was in Atlanta only, and in the north. Almost all output from Atlanta was dedicated to locomotives and railroad rails, and no place in Union territory would sell steel to The Confederacy.
Brass was used in Confederate revolvers because it was available, not because it was good.
have you tried the taylor's cartridge case poker ? convenient accessory for their cylinders.
The R&D cylinder will handle any ammo within SAAMI specs for .45 Colt, however your revolver is not as strong as your cylinder. I have lost sights and cylinder latches firing strong self-defense ammo in Remingtons with conversion cylinders. I mostly stick to black powder cartridges in them, but cowboy loads will present no problems.
cold that work on a open top
Thanks for the reply. Would you say there is more barrel wear when shooting FMJ 45? How many rounds of FMJ do you estimate you've put through your Kirst conversion cylinder and what type of ammo / what brand of ammo were they primarily?
Can you shoot regular smokeless 45lc or do they have to be black powder loads?
Either one works fine, just use cowboy lead bullet loads. Keep the velocity around 800 fps or less.
All your videos are sooo helpful ....i am thinking of getting a taylors 1858 in 38spl what do you think?
I think you'll like it
do you think the new 1860 henry from henry arms going to be a good rifle looking to buy one what do you thank?
thank for your time
I think it looks great, but it is really expensive.
44/40 works great in lever actions ,killed more varmints and game than the 45 colt. The true cartridge that won the west,is there any major energy gain in using 44/40 as opposed to 45 colt ?
Do the r&d cylinders have safety notches? I was looking at the Taylor website and I didn't see safety notches in the picture of their cartridge conversion cylinders. I'm most interested in the R&D type of cylinder at the moment. Are some cylinders stronger than others?
Great video....can you please explain why Taylor recommends only firing cowboy loads through these? I've recently purchased a stainless 1858 uberti and considering going for the drop in R&D cylinders but wondering if the cylinder itself isn't strong enough for jacket casings or is it the gun itself?
Elam Gad The Pressures from smokeless powder are way higher than that of Black Powder, if you were to load one of these babies up with normal jacketed ammo it would probably bust the gun.
But don't worry the gun can use semi magnum cartridges if they were loaded with black powder.
I'm new to BP and just bought a Uberti 1858 Remington New Army and the Taylor's Conversion Cylinder. I've had a little trouble getting the BP and the Conversion cylinder back in the frame. I noticed on the Uberti that the little hand that turns the cylinder sticks out a bit (by the hammer) and it seems that I have to rotate the cylinder clockwise when putting it in from the right side of the gun. Should this little hand piece be sticking out at all or is this correct? Great Videos! Thanks
Great video. I was looking at the Kirst Konverter on their website for my 1851 Pietta. Do you know if the 45LC Konverter for the 1858 also fits the 1851? Also the website is trying to sell gunsmithing services with the purchase of a Konverter. I was under the understanding that they were a drop in conversion. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanx in advance.
Commented on your other video, awesome timing finding all of these. I actually am planning on getting a conversion for my 1858 later this week! Any advice on loads? I know it says cowboy only loads, can I use my normal cast alloy I usually use and load lighter charges?
For factory ammo I prefer Black Hills
duelist1954
I'd probably load my own, or at least try. I just started casting, so I'm always looking for new things to try with it. I'd like to make some 45 long colt. That'd be the largest I've cast so far.
Hit Ebay for used lead, or www.rotometals.com and find yourself some pure lead to cast from, and be sure you don't get it mixed with your existing alloys for your smokeless gun(s).
In the case of Ebay, you've got to watch those sellers like a hawk if pure lead is important to you. Some of them have their own definition of "Pure".
If they flux it then skim all the dirt and wheel-weight clips out, they call that "Pure", because it only contains the alloy, not dirt, or all the other small things that get embedded in a bullet when it hits.
The idiots don't know that in terms of metal, "Pure" means "No alloys... only the metal itself".
They are selling "Cleaned" lead and calling it "Pure".
You can shoot hard-cast or jacketed bullets in the conversion cylinders, but the rifling is cut to a depth appropriate for pure lead balls.
Harder projectiles (like range lead and old wheel weights), especially jacketed ones, may not take the rifling as well and be a little less accurate.
Your best bet for used pure lead is from salvage contractors, who have collected old roof flashings and plumbing fittings, then cleaned it up (or left that to you). Also, medical lead is pure. That would be in the walls and ceilings of X-ray rooms that were demolished, and from the lead aprons that X-ray techs wear.
I saw one guy who had bought an old sailboat keel from a salvage yard, which contained about 1500 pounds of pure lead.
It's not a bad practice to ask an Ebay seller what the Brinell Hardness Numberof his lead is. For pure lead, the BHN is 4, and 99.9% pure, it's 5.
You rarely find 100% pure lead, it's pretty much a laboratory concept, and hugely expensive.
The BHN of a really hard alloy, like linotype, is 18.
Did the historical drop in cylinders as well as the factory conversions have the notch for the hammer to sit between chambers like the cap and ball?
can you use smokeless .45 LC? or do you have to use black powder loads?
They make smokeless cowboy loads that simulate the pressure curves of black powder rounds without all the mess and fouling. Safe to shoot in these. If you are going to run one of these kits, however, make sure you get a steel frame and not a brass or gunmetal one.
Any factory ammo is safe to fire in the conversions. Cowboy ammo is often (but not always) loaded to lower velocity than the standard loads.
Great Video, Thank you! Please correct me if any of the following is inaccurate! I own 2 of the Pietta 1858's and the R&D Conversion cylinders. I heard that you have to use 'Cowboy Action' rounds only and that you should never use jacketed bullets. I can see where a jacketed bullet may tear the rifling out of the softer barrel over time. I have never fired anything hotter than the low velocity (750fps) Cowboy Action rounds with lead bullets. Could these conversions possibly be capable of firing Standard Velocity .45 Colt rounds with lead bullets? If so, what about jacketed bullets if kept to minimal use?
Should be fine for any SAMMI non plus P lead ammo.