The oil burning at the beginning of the 3 cylinder mode is because of the oil being pulled up past the piston rings in 2 cylinder mode. The piston is still going up and down but with the valves being shut there is vacuum and compression still being made, but it's going past the piston into the crankcase. I would also remove the spark plugs after removing the lifters.
I ran my V8 without part of a sparkplug that broke upon removal (I didn't have an extraction tool and the hardware stores were closed). I disconnected the fuel injector and ran the engine so I could park my car in the garage, and while running there was a serious put put noise during the time the cylinder was rising. It was quite noisy without that sparkplug. So I doubt they could run two cylinders without sparkplugs.
No, removing the spark plugs will add significant pumping losses, absolutely not a good idea. There should be zero net pressure in the deactivated cylinder, the energy put into compression is put back in during the down stroke, so power loss for this is very small. Removing the spark plugs means you are expending energy on both strokes.
My brother and I tried cylinder deactivation on my 1981 Jeep Wagoneer with an AMC 360. Experiment 1: Rapid deactivation of 2 cylinders while traveling at 55 mph. Cylinder 8 was deactivated by disconnecting the wrist pin end of the connecting rod, which then deactivated cylinder 7 by way of removing the rear section of Cam. Jeep was able to climb the hills to his house, reduction of economy observed, some rod knock and reduced oil pressure observed. Experiment 2: Deactivation of 3 cylinders. Jeep able to move still, but unable to climb 8% grade except in 4-low, first gear - barely. Fuel economy appeared unchanged. Experiment 3: Deactivation disabled by replacement of spark plugs. Jeep again able to maintain 55 mph, Economy returned to normal, bottom of tank observed 3/4 mile from gas station. Hyper miling mode engaged to achieve station.
I was thinking that the exhaust valves needed to be propped open for the same reason, but pulling the plugs would be a much simpler (but probably louder and messier) way to provide proof of concept.
You don’t want the pumping losses that would cause. It is much better to keep the volume of air constant in the cylinders. It will act as a spring compressing and decompressing during the cycle, ideally there would be no leaks too.
Reason you were burning oil is because when the cylinder is deactivated oil starts to pool up in the cylinder. A big reason why GM has a time limit on how long DoD/AFM can be active before disengaging. With you driving it for an hour or two straight I’m sure there was some decent oil in that cylinder.
Yep my 2008 LS4 with AFM was notorious for the white/blue/grey puff of smoke when switching back to 8 cylinder mode. 27MPG in a v8 sedan but not enough to have everyone behind wondering if my car was falling apart.
Wondering why they not just open the inlet and outlet ports in a 2 stroke fashion and turn off ignition and injection. This way there's not so much suction going on and the oil won't collect in the cylinder.
@@RubenKelevra most cylinders have interference fit on 4 stroke so while you could open the valves you need to make sure they are closed at TDC. Much more complex as well because you would need a VVT like system or a cam with multiple lobes to change between the different modes.
@@brianhunt6943 well, you need a cam with multiple different lobes anyway, as you have to keep them closed. Anyway shifting the cam over to a different pattern with a fork doesn't sound *that* complicated.
My first new car was a 1994 Saturn SL (the base model with manual window cranks). It had either 85 or 89 HP (don't remember exactly). That car was SLOW! I used to call the A/C button my Turbo button, as you could feel the power boost when the A/C was off. I used to turn it off to go up mild hills. I drove that car for 160,000 miles, and it was still running well when it was totaled by an 18 wheeler. Thanks for the memories!!!
I have a 2002 Saturn SC1 with just over 115k miles, ive driven it all over the past year or so with no issue. No AC, slow, but by god is the gas saving awesome. Compared to my other cars it's insane.
i have a 2001 1.9 with 335k miles and never let me down anywhere one of the most reliable cars i've owned and i have owned lots even Mercedes Porsches and BMW's
The Lean Burn should be interesting. I was always fascinated by the old WW2 stories of the Navy pilots leaning out the mix to get back to the boat landing with nothing left in the tank.
well... Ish. They have more than one priority when designing a car. The engineers designing your car almost certainly know better than you how to make it efficient, but there's a good chance there are other things they are prioritizing more than you would, at least if you are the type to get into hypermiling and ecomodding, and thus if efficiency is your only concern, you quite likely can still improve on their design somewhat.
I had to drive a car for a short while with one cylinder almost deactivated. it is an inline 4 where the sparkplug on cylinder 3 decided to split into two which meant that I couldn't attach the spark plug wire to the actual plug itself. so that cylinder got fuel, and promptly spat it back out the exhaust pipe. only drove 5 km to get to my friends garage and fix it. but it sounded surprisingly fun, almost like a subaru boxer for some reason. and if someone is interested, it is a 1984 Volvo 360GLT with a b20 swap from a Volvo 740
I love this channel. There’s nothing better than a cup of coffee and Robot Cantina on Sunday morning. The engine was burning oil after number two was reactivated because the piston was still moving in the bore and creating a low pressure area. Oil was sucked past the 216,000 mile rings, then blown back out past them. Residual oil coated the inside of the combustion chamber, hence oil burning.
Each day offers us the gift of being a special occasion if we can simply learn that as well as giving, it is blessed to receive with grace and a grateful heart.
I'm sure if the 2 cylinder mode is only activated on low power mode and 4 cylinders when actual power is needed, the economy could be quite substantial. Also leaving the valves closed is creating some kind of vacuum pump in the deactivated cylinders. Real engine with cylinders deactivation also had oil burning issues because of that. Edit: some kind of reverse Jake brake system can be able to squeeze some more hp into it I think.
@@fryguy503 Locking valves open would not be the ideal situation. It would screw up the exhaust pulse timing and take away any intake charge air/pressure boost advantages from the remaining cylinders. Also, the dead cylinders will always be eating a lot of filthy exhaust air on top of the EGR and oil already being pushed into the cylinder chamber with no way to burn it off. Any gains from reducing the compression load on the deactivated cylinders would be lost from the rest of the system becoming less efficient.
So deactivated cylinders increases engine drag on those cylinders because of compression and vacuum. Now a experiment I did in the 1980's on a 360 Cid v8 was to remove 4 pistons & block off the oil holes by a machined spacer (2 piece) and kept the other connecting rod in its place. As for the lifters a copper fuel line was pressed into the oil hole blocking off the lifter oil. A special tool made from a old solid lifter was pressed into the lifter holes one at a time to peen over the copper line as to allow the new roller lifters to work in in place of hydraulic lifters. Plenty of oil kept the roller lifters lubed from runoff from the rockers in the heads. Removed the 650 Carter 4bb carb and made a adapter for a 1bb Carter from a 225 Cid 6 cylinder. Yes it did run good once I had to externally add weights to the torque converter to balance out the engine. Granted, the new roller cam had a higher low end torque profile and I had the heads milled and valley decked. The compression went from 8:1 to 9.5:1 used headers with a cross over connecter. The van went from 14 mpg avg to 22 avg. Later when the fuel crisis was over I put it all back together keep the roller cam and the replacement carb was a holley 620, (600 cfm bored out) with a electronic duty fuel solenoid on the primary side. Fuel mpg was 17 avg.
Thunderhead 289 would be so proud. I can see him now sittin' back in his custom, duct tape upholstered Lazyboy, sippin' on a Folgers topped with Cap'N Crunch whispering quietly to himself. "Yeah boy"
For anyone interested in more cylinder modification stuff, there is a very interesting build video on "The horsepower monster" channel where they modify a NASCAR SB2 V8 to run as a V6 for a specific salt flats category rule
There's also 'SuperFastMatt' who's building his own Salt Flat high speed run car, utilising a BMW 1000RR 4 cyl motor, and he's going to run it in 2cyl mode as well as full 4cyl mode for different 500cc & 1000cc catagories.... I like his kind of sense of humour, it's kind of like this guys humour too. 😏. He's also fitted a full Tesla power train into a classic 40's(?) Jaguar👍 and fitted a CBR1000 motorbike engine into a classic Honda S600 car chassis 😎🇬🇧
@@MapleMan1984 Have you watched 'Suoerfastmatt's videos on it? Either way, as they say "Each to their own", in one regard he is 'Updating' a classic jaguar to run more 'Green' hence keeping the chassis and body going instead of scrapping it. In one sense yes he could have done a full resto-mod. In one sense he could have just done a full restoration. In another sense he could have just scrapped it. Multiple decisions, multiple reasons. Each person would have done their own thing, take you for example, you have your own ideas. It's like someone did a beautiful job 'Resto-modding' a VW Karma Ghia so it is immaculate in paint, running gear, parts etc, but, fully electric driven. One of the complaints of fully electric drivetrain cars are that there's just 'A lack of driver engagement' per say, so, some companies have 'Resto-Modded' old Porsches, Jags, and other cars so that they have an electric motor system that's linked to the original 4 or 5 speed manual gearbox, hence you get power and torque, but, 'Involvement' with a manual box... Again.. "Each to their own"... 🤔😏. 😎🇬🇧
I did an 8 cylinder deactivation once on a Camaro SS. It was neat, watching the shower of flaming parts. Very good on gas mileage, and man, talk about QUIET!
Cylinder deactivation may save fuel under light loads but here it was mostly under heavy loads as it was harder to accelerate. It may be easier to deselect injectors depending on manifold pressures.
I'm not sure how the EGR valve works on this particular car, but if it's signaled by vacuum, 2cyl may be enough to be opening the egr valve. That will significantly reduce performance when having to run under heavy load. The engine will start detonating and have to pull timing out to compensate.
Weird how the engine sounds like it's at half rpm's with two cylinders. Amazing that you show the ECU codes too! I have a lot of cars in my city running on 3 cylinders lol. This might sound awesome (LOL) with no exhaust
That outro was legendary. I love these like-minded engineering "what ifs". You earned my sub with the predator engine series, and you continue to impress. Keep up the fantastic content!
Try using the deactivated cylinders to pump air in to the other cylinders! I read about someone who did that with a Ducati twin- one cylinder was a supercharger for the other cylinder. He claimed to make more power running that way than the original naturally-aspirated twin.
I believe I remember hearing something about this kind of thing. As I recall, the deactivated cylinders were converted to 2-stroke and therefore moved twice the volume of fresh air as the two fully-operational cylinders. It makes sense that two cylinders running up to 2atm of boost would be both more efficient and more powerful than the original four-cylinder engine, even if by a small margin.
This was also done back in 1974 with turning V8's into V4's when gas prices went crazy. Gas had been about 29 cents a gallon and then jumped up to about $1 a gallon.
No reason for anyone to get mad about copying an experiment. It's merely different data for a concept. Luke did this with an old school V8, you are doing it with a fuel injected car. I really enjoy the fact that more than one person has tried it, and what you've been up to with the Honda has really interested me as well! Keep up the great content.
Based on the comments, folks don't know how GM overcame deactivation issues. They found simply killing spark and injection wasn't enough. The values also have to close at mid stroke to eliminate parasitic loss from vacuum and compression. It also reduces or eliminates oil in the cylinders. It makes the pressure a net zero. That's something that the 8 6 4 Cadillacs couldn't accomplish, in addition to massive loss in power when cylinders cut out. Throttle by wire is why you don't really notice the change on the DoD engines of today.
Damn using thr slope between those last 2 0-60 metrics you can put a 6 cylinder engine in and get a -3 second 0-60. Can't wait to see that next episode!
Thank you for that enlightening video it was interesting. Some commentators thought that the smoke was coming from the piston rings, that maybe so but I think (occasionally) that it was getting through the valve stem oil seals and because the valves were not opening it was trapped there until the cam follower was reinserted. When smoke appears when first started then disappears is usually a sign that the valve stem oil seals are badly worn. The two cylinder drive was smoother probably because the engine was balanced as opposed to the off balance of number two cylinder interrupting the opposing 1 and 4 crankshaft phase.
I wish the 200 mpg carburetor believers would watch videos like this. These experiments prove that any given automobile requires a certain amount of fuel to move it, and there isn't much room for improvement.
What really helps with fuel economy, I tested it myself is to try and make a hybrid out of your car. Accelerate with the rpm and the load in a range were it's most efficient. Then put it in neutral and turn of the engine. Works best on manual. The coast as long as traffic allows and use your knowledge about the route you're driving. So converting units I roughly improved fuel economy on a otherwise identical car from ~35mpg to 50mpg and even slightly better after I got used to it. Then I switched to electric and can charge for mostly for free at work.
My brain tells me that it is not displacement that makes fuel economy, but resistance to movement. Curb weight being the primary factor of resistance, especially in stop go traffic. I'd like a video about reducing resistance to movement, through reduction of all types of friction.
My father purchased a 96' saturn sl new when I was a kid, the car rusted out to the point the doors wouldn't close from the structure bending but was able to put 315k on it, all the while still happy to make 45 mpg (His best tank run ever was 52 mpg).This was probably due to his custom ordered model with no a/c or p/s and one mirrior lol. Maybe we can see a mpg test with limited accessory drive?
So good. I loved my SC2. AC never worked when I had it. But with well over 200,000 miles on it, she still got 40 to 42mpg with a dumb lead footed kid driving it. Best I ever got was 45 on a 200 mile highway trip. Thing just sipped gas.
I just stumbled across these type of videos, and watched yours and one other channels video on adding a lawnmower carburetor. Really interesting, and quite honestly, so glad that there are people that are still curious to experiment. Although the results are disappointing, it’s your willingness to spend the time and effort on doing an experiment like this that is encouraging. From an old timer, I definitely appreciate this type of approach and personality that’s willing to do it. Thank you so much and please keep going.
What I learned today is that if you live in an area with backroads and lower speed limits then this could be temporary solution for someone with an engine with problems to get by. Great job as always Jimbo, Robot Cantina and Aging Wheels are my 2 favorite car CZcamsrs lately and I'd love if you guys could collaborate sometime
As in the one project car I bought with a hole through the block could have maybe been made to run on 2 cylinders if I deactivated the ones with the hole...
I worked as a bike mechanic in LA back in the seventies. During the fuel crises one of customers (may have been Mr. Edelbrock himself) removed two of the rods/pistons from a V8, turning it into a V6 to reduce fuel consumption.
I really look forward to every new episode. Your experiment reminds me of some work done during the first gas crisis converting V8 engines to V4 by deactivating the intake valve on 4 cylinders and letting the exhaust valve operate normally. They claimed up to 25% improvement in fuel mpg but I don't remember them testing the vehicle on a highway test loop like you did. Great content, thanks for the time and effort. Phil
So people question y u try running different numbers of cylinders... that should b obvious, it's fun, and it's interesting. Anyone who has worked on cars, and has any imagination, should surely appreciate this vid. I think it was cool. Great job, and an entertaining thumbs up.
I guess the almost unchanged fuel consumption may be caused by the ECU more often goes into full throttle enrichment. I've heared that also carburettors sometimes do the same trick of enriching fuel mixture near full throttle, but I don't think that will happen with a simple carburettor as the one from a lawn mover. -Would be interesting to see a comparison with the two cylinder deactivation together with the lawn mover carburettor! Deactivating cylinders by disconnecting the valves is off course easier, and certainly more reversible, compared to entirely removing pistons. I did the latter to a Fiat 127 after having a big end bearing seized. I knew from having a 2-cylinder Fiat 126 that engine balance is really poor with two pistons running in paralel, and running a 4-cyl on 3 is also really bad. I therefore chosed to remove a the counter acting piston next to the one with the seized bearing. I got really good mechanical balance, but having a 180 degree firing order gave the shakes at low rpm so I guess it all would have turned out better if I had chosed 360 degree firing order instead, and kept the big ends of the conrods instead of welding the oiling holes shut. Anyhow, the Fiat 127 had a carburettor and I got a fuel saving of 10-15%, meassured during a year and over 40.000 kilometers. czcams.com/video/GcKNt6QxEYE/video.html
This. On my older sefi, the throttle input is linear to fuel load % up to 50% or so throttle. At 50% throttle, it goes to 100% duty cycle and switches from sefi to batch fire, firing 4 injectors per side at 100%.
There's also 'SuperFastMatt' who's building his own Salt Flat high speed run car, utilising a BMW 1000RR 4 cyl motor, and he's going to run it in 2cyl mode as well as full 4cyl mode for different 500cc & 1000cc catagories.... I like his kind of sense of humour, it's kind of like this guys humour too. 😏. He's also fitted a full Tesla power train into a classic 40's(?) Jaguar👍 and fitted a CBR1000 motorbike engine into a classic Honda S600 car chassis 😎🇬🇧
That's so interesting. The fuel injector connector broke and I was driving on 3 cylinders in my 2002 sentra with the 2.5 engine. Still had plenty of power
"Are you telling me you built a cylinder-deactivation system...into a SATURN?!" "The way I see it, if you're going to experiment on a car, why not do it with some style?!"
ihave been harassed by the idea long time like taking a 4cyl engine and turn 2 of cylinder into an air compressor lol ( motocompressor) , crazy imagination
Some folks are saying remove spark plugs on deactivated cylinders which would be neat to try but I say instead of that, make some sort of chamber that hooks up to the spark plug hole to wildly decrease the compression ratio in the deactivated cylinders without actually leaving a spark plug out. Like a small air reservoir that screws into the spark plug tube.
This is ironic, I fixed an old Saturn up a couple of years back, one of the first things I had to do was fix it so it would run on four cylinders. 0-60 in 34 seconds means you're a LOT faster than just about every car I see on the way to work...
I really enjoy the mid-video music track you used. I believe you used it some last season as well. Perhaps you could share the title/performer? Thanks for a great & interesting channel.
I always had an idea of setting the injectors of an efi car on a switch like a turn signal relay system so it runs 2 cylinders for a second or so and then the other 2 cylinders alternating, causing an even wear/heat cycle while only running on 2 at a time, with a bypass "GO" button to run all 4 normally without the deactivation when you need the power
Very cool guys, a little forced induction would be a great test with cylinder cutoffs using toggle switches on injector wiring. A lot less tear down. And easily configure what cylinder arrangement works best. Just a thought.
@@shackwrrr But the pumping losses in a cylinder with open valves instead of a closed cylinder should have significantly less parasitic losses. Turning off the fuel flow to the injectors on a couple of cylinders SHOULD net a significant increase in fuel economy. I'm guessing 25% or so.
@@maxxron big issue is less power available means more throttle is required to maintain a certain speed. This is why some big engines such as LS1 can be tuned to make 35mpg on the freeway because you're basically idling
The oil burning at the beginning of the 3 cylinder mode is because of the oil being pulled up past the piston rings in 2 cylinder mode. The piston is still going up and down but with the valves being shut there is vacuum and compression still being made, but it's going past the piston into the crankcase. I would also remove the spark plugs after removing the lifters.
Beat me to it
I ran my V8 without part of a sparkplug that broke upon removal (I didn't have an extraction tool and the hardware stores were closed). I disconnected the fuel injector and ran the engine so I could park my car in the garage, and while running there was a serious put put noise during the time the cylinder was rising. It was quite noisy without that sparkplug. So I doubt they could run two cylinders without sparkplugs.
Yes compression and vacuum are parasitic on the energy output of the running cylinders.
yep, thats exactly whats up
No, removing the spark plugs will add significant pumping losses, absolutely not a good idea. There should be zero net pressure in the deactivated cylinder, the energy put into compression is put back in during the down stroke, so power loss for this is very small. Removing the spark plugs means you are expending energy on both strokes.
Interesting experiments, 👍. You torture those poor Saturns like Garage 54 abuses their poor Russian Lada's. 😢
😂😂😂
@Gibbon 😂😂😂
@Gibbon Just say to the editor of G54 to fix that
yeah and he keeps a formal type of talking that is clear and easy to understand for someone learning language and the topic like me
well at least millions of ladas were built saturns are kinda rare...
My brother and I tried cylinder deactivation on my 1981 Jeep Wagoneer with an AMC 360.
Experiment 1: Rapid deactivation of 2 cylinders while traveling at 55 mph. Cylinder 8 was deactivated by disconnecting the wrist pin end of the connecting rod, which then deactivated cylinder 7 by way of removing the rear section of Cam. Jeep was able to climb the hills to his house, reduction of economy observed, some rod knock and reduced oil pressure observed.
Experiment 2: Deactivation of 3 cylinders. Jeep able to move still, but unable to climb 8% grade except in 4-low, first gear - barely. Fuel economy appeared unchanged.
Experiment 3: Deactivation disabled by replacement of spark plugs. Jeep again able to maintain 55 mph, Economy returned to normal, bottom of tank observed 3/4 mile from gas station. Hyper miling mode engaged to achieve station.
Love the comments here.... I come for the video and stay for the great comments
INTERNATIONAL produced a 4 cylinder with a v8 block a friend of mine owned a scout with that motor , google it
use the 2 deactivated cylinders as a supercharger for the 2 active cylinders.
that would be awesome to see, immagine like a 6cyl operating on 4 but with 2 used as compressors
Oi
P
Ql
Hell yeah
I do wonder if that would be achievable under the terms of "youtube budget"
You'd have to bore out the charging cylinders to get more air in, or use three deactivated cylinders to change one active...
Removing the spark plugs from the deactivates cylinders would of been an interesting comparison. A little less compression to fight against🤔
That would have been my first instinct
I was thinking that the exhaust valves needed to be propped open for the same reason, but pulling the plugs would be a much simpler (but probably louder and messier) way to provide proof of concept.
@@maxxron One could also connect all (deactivated) cylinders with eachother to keep it as a closed system but have no vaccuum or pressure
You don’t want the pumping losses that would cause. It is much better to keep the volume of air constant in the cylinders. It will act as a spring compressing and decompressing during the cycle, ideally there would be no leaks too.
I was thinking that it might cause a slight imbalance but it would be a quick and simple experiment.
A Saturn down a cylinder or two and burning oil... how is this any different from the average GM product of that era on the road?
Reason you were burning oil is because when the cylinder is deactivated oil starts to pool up in the cylinder. A big reason why GM has a time limit on how long DoD/AFM can be active before disengaging. With you driving it for an hour or two straight I’m sure there was some decent oil in that cylinder.
Yep my 2008 LS4 with AFM was notorious for the white/blue/grey puff of smoke when switching back to 8 cylinder mode. 27MPG in a v8 sedan but not enough to have everyone behind wondering if my car was falling apart.
Wondering why they not just open the inlet and outlet ports in a 2 stroke fashion and turn off ignition and injection. This way there's not so much suction going on and the oil won't collect in the cylinder.
Came here to say the same thing
@@RubenKelevra most cylinders have interference fit on 4 stroke so while you could open the valves you need to make sure they are closed at TDC. Much more complex as well because you would need a VVT like system or a cam with multiple lobes to change between the different modes.
@@brianhunt6943 well, you need a cam with multiple different lobes anyway, as you have to keep them closed. Anyway shifting the cam over to a different pattern with a fork doesn't sound *that* complicated.
My first new car was a 1994 Saturn SL (the base model with manual window cranks). It had either 85 or 89 HP (don't remember exactly). That car was SLOW! I used to call the A/C button my Turbo button, as you could feel the power boost when the A/C was off. I used to turn it off to go up mild hills. I drove that car for 160,000 miles, and it was still running well when it was totaled by an 18 wheeler. Thanks for the memories!!!
I have a 2002 Saturn SC1 with just over 115k miles, ive driven it all over the past year or so with no issue. No AC, slow, but by god is the gas saving awesome. Compared to my other cars it's insane.
thats crazy thanks for sharing😀
i have a 2001 1.9 with 335k miles and never let me down anywhere one of the most reliable cars i've owned and i have owned lots even Mercedes Porsches and BMW's
The Lean Burn should be interesting. I was always fascinated by the old WW2 stories of the Navy pilots leaning out the mix to get back to the boat landing with nothing left in the tank.
Thank you for showing everybody it’s OK to use your turn signals :-) you’re one of the few people on CZcams that do this.
Now if I was driving a BMW....
@@robotcantina8957 Robot, looking forward to another great
video on Robot Cantina.
@@robotcantina8957 Hahaha i mean i'd understand i too wouldn't if i had a BMW it's part of the lifestyle 😂😝
22:00 That's because at WOT you're on open loop, while on 80% throttle you're on closed loop
Never expected de-tuning an engine would be so interesting! I really like it, thanks for sharing!
I think this also demonstrates that manufacturers probably know what they are doing when it comes to maximizing fuel economy.
well... Ish. They have more than one priority when designing a car. The engineers designing your car almost certainly know better than you how to make it efficient, but there's a good chance there are other things they are prioritizing more than you would, at least if you are the type to get into hypermiling and ecomodding, and thus if efficiency is your only concern, you quite likely can still improve on their design somewhat.
No they dont
@@hackervirus56 Yes, they absolutely do hahaha.
I had to drive a car for a short while with one cylinder almost deactivated.
it is an inline 4 where the sparkplug on cylinder 3 decided to split into two which meant that I couldn't attach the spark plug wire to the actual plug itself. so that cylinder got fuel, and promptly spat it back out the exhaust pipe.
only drove 5 km to get to my friends garage and fix it. but it sounded surprisingly fun, almost like a subaru boxer for some reason.
and if someone is interested, it is a 1984 Volvo 360GLT with a b20 swap from a Volvo 740
I love this channel. There’s nothing better than a cup of coffee and Robot Cantina on Sunday morning.
The engine was burning oil after number two was reactivated because the piston was still moving in the bore and creating a low pressure area. Oil was sucked past the 216,000 mile rings, then blown back out past them. Residual oil coated the inside of the combustion chamber, hence oil burning.
Each day offers us the gift of being a special occasion if we can simply learn that as well as giving, it is blessed to receive with grace and a grateful heart.
I'm sure if the 2 cylinder mode is only activated on low power mode and 4 cylinders when actual power is needed, the economy could be quite substantial.
Also leaving the valves closed is creating some kind of vacuum pump in the deactivated cylinders.
Real engine with cylinders deactivation also had oil burning issues because of that.
Edit: some kind of reverse Jake brake system can be able to squeeze some more hp into it I think.
I was going to comment on the similar. Would be a better test to lock the valves open on the deactivated cyl's
@@fryguy503 I think that would create a lot more heat and overheat the cylinder
@@fryguy503 Locking valves open would not be the ideal situation. It would screw up the exhaust pulse timing and take away any intake charge air/pressure boost advantages from the remaining cylinders. Also, the dead cylinders will always be eating a lot of filthy exhaust air on top of the EGR and oil already being pushed into the cylinder chamber with no way to burn it off. Any gains from reducing the compression load on the deactivated cylinders would be lost from the rest of the system becoming less efficient.
I'm in my office trying to find that beep. Then it dawned on me to back up the video. Yalp, it's your beeper. LOL
So deactivated cylinders increases engine drag on those cylinders because of compression and vacuum. Now a experiment I did in the 1980's on a 360 Cid v8 was to remove 4 pistons & block off the oil holes by a machined spacer (2 piece) and kept the other connecting rod in its place. As for the lifters a copper fuel line was pressed into the oil hole blocking off the lifter oil. A special tool made from a old solid lifter was pressed into the lifter holes one at a time to peen over the copper line as to allow the new roller lifters to work in in place of hydraulic lifters. Plenty of oil kept the roller lifters lubed from runoff from the rockers in the heads. Removed the 650 Carter 4bb carb and made a adapter for a 1bb Carter from a 225 Cid 6 cylinder. Yes it did run good once I had to externally add weights to the torque converter to balance out the engine. Granted, the new roller cam had a higher low end torque profile and I had the heads milled and valley decked. The compression went from 8:1 to 9.5:1 used headers with a cross over connecter. The van went from 14 mpg avg to 22 avg. Later when the fuel crisis was over I put it all back together keep the roller cam and the replacement carb was a holley 620, (600 cfm bored out) with a electronic duty fuel solenoid on the primary side. Fuel mpg was 17 avg.
I love the comments here... I come for the video and stay for the comments on this channel.
love the thumper lawn mower mod at the end xD freaking hilarious sounding
Thunderhead 289 would be so proud. I can see him now sittin' back in his custom, duct tape upholstered Lazyboy, sippin' on a Folgers topped with Cap'N Crunch whispering quietly to himself. "Yeah boy"
For anyone interested in more cylinder modification stuff, there is a very interesting build video on "The horsepower monster" channel where they modify a NASCAR SB2 V8 to run as a V6 for a specific salt flats category rule
There's also 'SuperFastMatt' who's building his own Salt Flat high speed run car, utilising a BMW 1000RR 4 cyl motor, and he's going to run it in 2cyl mode as well as full 4cyl mode for different 500cc & 1000cc catagories.... I like his kind of sense of humour, it's kind of like this guys humour too. 😏. He's also fitted a full Tesla power train into a classic 40's(?) Jaguar👍 and fitted a CBR1000 motorbike engine into a classic Honda S600 car chassis 😎🇬🇧
I figured I'd find a place for this.
czcams.com/video/BsZ5FTtcHyg/video.html
@@thedarkknight1971 So he ruined the Jaguar?
@@MapleMan1984 Have you watched 'Suoerfastmatt's videos on it? Either way, as they say "Each to their own", in one regard he is 'Updating' a classic jaguar to run more 'Green' hence keeping the chassis and body going instead of scrapping it. In one sense yes he could have done a full resto-mod. In one sense he could have just done a full restoration. In another sense he could have just scrapped it. Multiple decisions, multiple reasons. Each person would have done their own thing, take you for example, you have your own ideas. It's like someone did a beautiful job 'Resto-modding' a VW Karma Ghia so it is immaculate in paint, running gear, parts etc, but, fully electric driven. One of the complaints of fully electric drivetrain cars are that there's just 'A lack of driver engagement' per say, so, some companies have 'Resto-Modded' old Porsches, Jags, and other cars so that they have an electric motor system that's linked to the original 4 or 5 speed manual gearbox, hence you get power and torque, but, 'Involvement' with a manual box... Again.. "Each to their own"... 🤔😏. 😎🇬🇧
I did an 8 cylinder deactivation once on a Camaro SS. It was neat, watching the shower of flaming parts. Very good on gas mileage, and man, talk about QUIET!
:O My face when the car started after "deactivating ALL cylinders". ROFL!!
Cylinder deactivation may save fuel under light loads but here it was mostly under heavy loads as it was harder to accelerate. It may be easier to deselect injectors depending on manifold pressures.
In that case there would still be pumping losses where disabling the valves almost completely removes the pumping losses.
I'm not sure how the EGR valve works on this particular car, but if it's signaled by vacuum, 2cyl may be enough to be opening the egr valve. That will significantly reduce performance when having to run under heavy load. The engine will start detonating and have to pull timing out to compensate.
How y'all know this shit
Electricity is really just organized lightening. 💥💥💥
I look forward to what ever experiment Jimbo does next..
Neat! The performance is very similar to my Trabant 601!
Weird how the engine sounds like it's at half rpm's with two cylinders.
Amazing that you show the ECU codes too!
I have a lot of cars in my city running on 3 cylinders lol.
This might sound awesome (LOL) with no exhaust
Shows how much some people pay attention or just rant without watching the video.
You have brains in your head
You have feet in your shoes.
You can steer yourself any direction you choose.
Great comment here...Looking forward to more from Robot Cantina
I find this far more interesting than I ought, given how you torture that poor Saturn 🤣
Things do not just happen, Things are made to happen
and thanks for making them happen on this channel. 👍👍
That's right... this is one happening channel!!
@@mommapanda5736 Looking for perfection is one way to motivate yourself.
Engineering is the perfection of a point of view.
You may strive for perfection, but you are never going to play the perfect game.
Love the content and very entertaining way in which you present. Thanks for sharing!
You're my favorite engineer, and favorite guy on CZcams right now. Keep up the great work!
My favorite CZcams channel too.
I met the creator of the scan gauge about 10 yrs ago and own a scan gauge!
@@Mrelectric423 This is on my list of favorite you = tubers..
Keep going Jimbo, we need you now more than ever.
Look up garage 54, they take experiments to the extreme.
This is absolutely amazing! I love you guys for answering all these lingering questions of mine.
That outro was legendary. I love these like-minded engineering "what ifs". You earned my sub with the predator engine series, and you continue to impress. Keep up the fantastic content!
Try using the deactivated cylinders to pump air in to the other cylinders! I read about someone who did that with a Ducati twin- one cylinder was a supercharger for the other cylinder. He claimed to make more power running that way than the original naturally-aspirated twin.
This is an idea For sure
That’s crazy dude
That wouldn't work to advantage unless you used more than a 1:1 ratio of deactivated to activated cylinders.
I believe I remember hearing something about this kind of thing. As I recall, the deactivated cylinders were converted to 2-stroke and therefore moved twice the volume of fresh air as the two fully-operational cylinders. It makes sense that two cylinders running up to 2atm of boost would be both more efficient and more powerful than the original four-cylinder engine, even if by a small margin.
This opened my eyes.
This channel never disappoints - that was fun! You certainly made it sound like a motorcycle :-)
Can't wait to see what comes next :-)
Another fascinating video. I see this one becoming another long series. Thank you.
Thank for the video guys, massive work.
That's a nifty experiment. Thanks for the video Jimbo.
14:09 JEEZ! what have you done! you just created an F1 for a few seconds there 🤣
This was also done back in 1974 with turning V8's into V4's when gas prices went crazy. Gas had been about 29 cents a gallon and then jumped up to about $1 a gallon.
"Hey buddy, your car sounds kinda rough!"
"I know, I deleted most of the cylinders."
Great way to start my morning! The ending was 🤣🤣🤣
Jus got my McDonald's and was sweet a new video!
@@nathanielsexton7337 😊😊
Im surprised it worked that well!
VW experimented with a supercharged 2 cylinder diesel, it was made by cutting a 4 cylinder in half!
No reason for anyone to get mad about copying an experiment. It's merely different data for a concept. Luke did this with an old school V8, you are doing it with a fuel injected car. I really enjoy the fact that more than one person has tried it, and what you've been up to with the Honda has really interested me as well! Keep up the great content.
Very interesting video, especially the indepth mpg and 0-60 tests.
That's crazy how much it sounds like a Toyan engine when you hit the accelerator in time lapse.
Amazing 🤩 I love seeing experiments like this on cars ☺️❤️🙌💯
It even have the sound of a true 2 cylinder engine.
This is well above and beyond what I ever expected to find in a CZcams video. Actual engineering and a genuine scientific effort. Great work!
Based on the comments, folks don't know how GM overcame deactivation issues. They found simply killing spark and injection wasn't enough. The values also have to close at mid stroke to eliminate parasitic loss from vacuum and compression. It also reduces or eliminates oil in the cylinders. It makes the pressure a net zero. That's something that the 8 6 4 Cadillacs couldn't accomplish, in addition to massive loss in power when cylinders cut out. Throttle by wire is why you don't really notice the change on the DoD engines of today.
Good comment here... Looking forward to more from Robot Cantina
Damn using thr slope between those last 2 0-60 metrics you can put a 6 cylinder engine in and get a -3 second 0-60. Can't wait to see that next episode!
I'm pretty sure that type of math only works on Deloreans around 88mph
Thank you for all your effort in showing us what if. The results are as expected. I always wanted to do the same. Keep up the good work. 👍👍👍👍👍
I did hillbilly lean burn on an '89 integra by remapping O2 output. The best MPG I achieved was 47mpg.
I want to see drag races with the Saturn against your street legal go kart!
Great video & content! It makes me want a Saturn or a Geo just to tinker with. The last bit of the video gave me a good laugh! Great job 👏🏼
Satisfaction lies in the effort we make, not so much in the attainment of things.
Thank you for that enlightening video it was interesting.
Some commentators thought that the smoke was coming from the piston rings, that maybe so but I think (occasionally) that it was getting through the valve stem oil seals and because the valves were not opening it was trapped there until the cam follower was reinserted.
When smoke appears when first started then disappears is usually a sign that the valve stem oil seals are badly worn.
The two cylinder drive was smoother probably because the engine was balanced as opposed to the off balance of number two cylinder interrupting the opposing 1 and 4 crankshaft phase.
I am a proud member of the ROBOT CANTINA fan club. Love the content
and LOVE the humor of the channel. 👍👍👍
i thought at the very end you were going to drive around on the starter and claim you had an electric car 😉
The secret of change is to focus all of your energy not on fighting the old, but on building the new.
Winter, a lingering season, is a time to gather golden moments, embark upon a sentimental journey, and enjoy every idle hour.
I wish the 200 mpg carburetor believers would watch videos like this. These experiments prove that any given automobile requires a certain amount of fuel to move it, and there isn't much room for improvement.
I've seen those Saturn's run on three cylinders after throwing a rod with a hole in the block!
Awesome robot cantina great work Sir
What really helps with fuel economy, I tested it myself is to try and make a hybrid out of your car. Accelerate with the rpm and the load in a range were it's most efficient. Then put it in neutral and turn of the engine. Works best on manual.
The coast as long as traffic allows and use your knowledge about the route you're driving. So converting units I roughly improved fuel economy on a otherwise identical car from ~35mpg to 50mpg and even slightly better after I got used to it. Then I switched to electric and can charge for mostly for free at work.
That was entertaining and educational. Thanks for all your time.
That was so funny, I was scratching my head!
"With 3 cylinders it has more power, but it sounds terrible"
Me: oh, I thought it sounded like a Subaru with UEL headers 😄
LOL... great comment! Yes! it sounded like a Subaru......Some people like that sound, I find it disturbing because they sound like they are misfiring.
@@robotcantina8957 Robot, Looking forward to another
great video from Robot Cantina.
Love your work, Jimbo 👍
... when your boss is a garden gnome with a smart phone, lol! Entertaining thanks.
My brain tells me that it is not displacement that makes fuel economy, but resistance to movement. Curb weight being the primary factor of resistance, especially in stop go traffic. I'd like a video about reducing resistance to movement, through reduction of all types of friction.
I wonder how much of a difference brand new or freshly greased wheel bearings make
My father purchased a 96' saturn sl new when I was a kid, the car rusted out to the point the doors wouldn't close from the structure bending but was able to put 315k on it, all the while still happy to make 45 mpg (His best tank run ever was 52 mpg).This was probably due to his custom ordered model with no a/c or p/s and one mirrior lol. Maybe we can see a mpg test with limited accessory drive?
So good. I loved my SC2. AC never worked when I had it. But with well over 200,000 miles on it, she still got 40 to 42mpg with a dumb lead footed kid driving it. Best I ever got was 45 on a 200 mile highway trip. Thing just sipped gas.
PS can eat some mileage, but if the AC isn't active then the pulley on the belt just spins.
That’s odd considering Saturns were made with plastic body panels
@@willbennett8799 But they are still unibody, giant void of an open door = no structure. He's saying the door gave the soft body rigidity.
this is amazing thank you for making this video
I just stumbled across these type of videos, and watched yours and one other channels video on adding a lawnmower carburetor. Really interesting, and quite honestly, so glad that there are people that are still curious to experiment. Although the results are disappointing, it’s your willingness to spend the time and effort on doing an experiment like this that is encouraging. From an old timer, I definitely appreciate this type of approach and personality that’s willing to do it. Thank you so much and please keep going.
What I learned today is that if you live in an area with backroads and lower speed limits then this could be temporary solution for someone with an engine with problems to get by. Great job as always Jimbo, Robot Cantina and Aging Wheels are my 2 favorite car CZcamsrs lately and I'd love if you guys could collaborate sometime
As in the one project car I bought with a hole through the block could have maybe been made to run on 2 cylinders if I deactivated the ones with the hole...
Could help fuel economy in a dystopia too.
I worked as a bike mechanic in LA back in the seventies. During the fuel crises one of customers (may have been Mr. Edelbrock himself) removed two of the rods/pistons from a V8, turning it into a V6 to reduce fuel consumption.
Did Mr. Edelbrock find the answer?
I really look forward to every new episode. Your experiment reminds me of some work done during the first gas crisis converting V8 engines to V4 by deactivating the intake valve on 4 cylinders and letting the exhaust valve operate normally. They claimed up to 25% improvement in fuel mpg but I don't remember them testing the vehicle on a highway test loop like you did. Great content, thanks for the time and effort. Phil
I love the different sounds
So people question y u try running different numbers of cylinders... that should b obvious, it's fun, and it's interesting. Anyone who has worked on cars, and has any imagination, should surely appreciate this vid. I think it was cool. Great job, and an entertaining thumbs up.
I guess the almost unchanged fuel consumption may be caused by the ECU more often goes into full throttle enrichment. I've heared that also carburettors sometimes do the same trick of enriching fuel mixture near full throttle, but I don't think that will happen with a simple carburettor as the one from a lawn mover. -Would be interesting to see a comparison with the two cylinder deactivation together with the lawn mover carburettor! Deactivating cylinders by disconnecting the valves is off course easier, and certainly more reversible, compared to entirely removing pistons. I did the latter to a Fiat 127 after having a big end bearing seized. I knew from having a 2-cylinder Fiat 126 that engine balance is really poor with two pistons running in paralel, and running a 4-cyl on 3 is also really bad. I therefore chosed to remove a the counter acting piston next to the one with the seized bearing. I got really good mechanical balance, but having a 180 degree firing order gave the shakes at low rpm so I guess it all would have turned out better if I had chosed 360 degree firing order instead, and kept the big ends of the conrods instead of welding the oiling holes shut. Anyhow, the Fiat 127 had a carburettor and I got a fuel saving of 10-15%, meassured during a year and over 40.000 kilometers. czcams.com/video/GcKNt6QxEYE/video.html
This. On my older sefi, the throttle input is linear to fuel load % up to 50% or so throttle. At 50% throttle, it goes to 100% duty cycle and switches from sefi to batch fire, firing 4 injectors per side at 100%.
I was wondering about that myself.
That plus the ecu probably sees its running lean with two unplugged and puts way more fuel to the system.
There's also 'SuperFastMatt' who's building his own Salt Flat high speed run car, utilising a BMW 1000RR 4 cyl motor, and he's going to run it in 2cyl mode as well as full 4cyl mode for different 500cc & 1000cc catagories.... I like his kind of sense of humour, it's kind of like this guys humour too. 😏. He's also fitted a full Tesla power train into a classic 40's(?) Jaguar👍 and fitted a CBR1000 motorbike engine into a classic Honda S600 car chassis 😎🇬🇧
Great video and a good choice of engine for the testing.
That's so interesting. The fuel injector connector broke and I was driving on 3 cylinders in my 2002 sentra with the 2.5 engine. Still had plenty of power
"Are you telling me you built a cylinder-deactivation system...into a SATURN?!"
"The way I see it, if you're going to experiment on a car, why not do it with some style?!"
This is one of the most interesting videos I’ve seen on CZcams in a LONG time
Love your channel!
It would be fun use 2 cylinder engine with 2 pistons working as compressors to make forced aspiration , i know it sounds crazy
Inline supercharger lmao
that idea is insane
ihave been harassed by the idea long time like taking a 4cyl engine and turn 2 of cylinder into an air compressor lol ( motocompressor) , crazy imagination
I know it's been done to death but some fuel economy mods might be fun
Amazing tests
Some folks are saying remove spark plugs on deactivated cylinders which would be neat to try but I say instead of that, make some sort of chamber that hooks up to the spark plug hole to wildly decrease the compression ratio in the deactivated cylinders without actually leaving a spark plug out. Like a small air reservoir that screws into the spark plug tube.
Or a tube that connects the two dead cylinders via the spark plug holes? Or just a small air filter for each hole?
This is ironic, I fixed an old Saturn up a couple of years back, one of the first things I had to do was fix it so it would run on four cylinders.
0-60 in 34 seconds means you're a LOT faster than just about every car I see on the way to work...
I really enjoy the mid-video music track you used. I believe you used it some last season as well. Perhaps you could share the title/performer? Thanks for a great & interesting channel.
I feel like this channel is the definition of “fuck around and find out”
Thanks JIMBO I’ll see ya next week!
I always had an idea of setting the injectors of an efi car on a switch like a turn signal relay system so it runs 2 cylinders for a second or so and then the other 2 cylinders alternating, causing an even wear/heat cycle while only running on 2 at a time, with a bypass "GO" button to run all 4 normally without the deactivation when you need the power
8 stroke engine! with 4 of the strokes being the cylinder just doing nothing
Very cool guys, a little forced induction would be a great test with cylinder cutoffs using toggle switches on injector wiring. A lot less tear down. And easily configure what cylinder arrangement works best. Just a thought.
I think it would work best to turn off 2 cyliders after reaching 50 mph
Issue with just deactivating the injectors is that with the valves still working you have pumping losses.
@@shackwrrr But the pumping losses in a cylinder with open valves instead of a closed cylinder should have significantly less parasitic losses. Turning off the fuel flow to the injectors on a couple of cylinders SHOULD net a significant increase in fuel economy. I'm guessing 25% or so.
@@maxxron big issue is less power available means more throttle is required to maintain a certain speed. This is why some big engines such as LS1 can be tuned to make 35mpg on the freeway because you're basically idling
@@kylemilford8758 The final drive gearing is also going to have a huge effect on fuel mileage.
I need more gnomes! Not just a photo cameo at the end!
Another great video, Jimbo! This whole thing was very interesting. Those fuel economy numbers blew my mind with the deactivated cylinders! 😳
To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk..
said Thomas Edison..
That's some mighty good stuff ya'll drinkin :P
Seriously tho, keep up the good work!
you mean the moonshine?
@@mommapanda5736 I figured it was Miller Lite or Michelob Ultra :P
@@laserhawk64 😚😚😚