M2 Carbine: Assault Rifle or Submachine Gun?
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- čas přidán 22. 03. 2017
- The M2 Carbine was a mechanically simple modification of the M1 Carbine to allow fully automatic fire. The fire prototypes of the M1 Carbine had actually been selective-fire guns, but that requirement had been dropped by the time the Winchester design was officially adopted as the M1. It was a feature quickly requested by troops once the Carbine entered active service, though.
In 1944 the US Army acknowledged this, and introduced the M2. A total of 217,000 were manufactured at the end of WW2, and did see limited service on Okinawa - and then extensive use in the Korean War and Vietnam War.
The M1 Carbine has long generated controversy among those attempting to rigidly define its role, as it falls awkwardly between the notion of submachine gun and assault rifle, firing a cartridge that is clearly more powerful than a pistol round but equally clearly less powerful than an intermediate rifle round. Its originally intended role was as a personal defense weapon more effective than the 1911 pistol, and in service it always scored high marks for handiness and poor marks for combat effectiveness. The opinion of soldiers using the Carbine in either its M1 or M2 form was very much dependent on what role they expected it to serve.
In my opinion, its light weight and stock design make it a sub-optimal submachine gun, and its light cartridge makes it a sub-optimal assault rifle. But if you need a light and handy carbine to carry a lot and only use in emergencies, it is hard to beat for its time.
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When my father was trained on this back in WWII he asked "Why are we using carbines? We're artillery."
Sergeant replied "When the artillery is overrun you're infantry."
That is the single most ARMY thing I have ever heard, that's also why everyone is an 11B is the ARMY regardless of what job you signed up for/as.
@@FrogOf4Chan the army stealing the Marines sayings nowadays?
@@michaelf.2449 Nowadays yeah, the ARMY infantry specifically has tried to be like the Marines for awhile, they even stole the Marines "ooh rah" and turned it into "hooah"
@@FrogOf4Chan marines had to switch to rah because of the army!
@@brianstabile165 Wouldn't surprise me, ARMY wants to be the best at everything just because we have the most people in our branch, but everybody knows that Marines are the best at offense.. when General Mattis took Sec Def we joked and called him the Sec of Offense rather than defense.
"Sonny, back in my day if we wanted an M2 carbine we had to take an M1 carbine and a wire coat hanger..."
I'll believe it
@cloverleafsippa713 yeah coat hangers aren't known for durability. But an M1 carbine into an M2 requires a little more work. Yes it's bolt on parts but it's more than a coat hanger.
@@cloroxlavenderscent4307 More than just bolt on parts. If you were to just attach the M2 parts, and the timing was off, the gun could blow up and possibly injure or kill you.
@@MrDiksum that's what the auto sear is for
@@cloroxlavenderscent4307 I don’t understand what you mean.
M1 Carbine: I’m a rifle
Tommy Gun: I’m an SMG
M2 Carbine: *confused screaming*
M2 Carbine: *I'm a Personal Defense Weapon*
I thought the M2 carbine was a 50BMG with a folding stock, pistol grip and 14" barrel.
@@benevolenthighwayman882 It has no shoulder thing that goes up, neither a barrel shroud. Also an aesthetic wooden stock, and as such a non-assault unscary weapon that is perfectly legal!
I lost it hahaha
Assault submachinerifle gun
Speaking of bullets bouncing off thick jackets, people spend so much time talking ballistics but miss the most obvious conclusion... in the heat of combat soldiers simply missed!
With the evidenced muzzle climb on full-auto you can easily imagine the first round hitting the target and the rest sailing over their heads. Embarrassed or in a haze after the fighting what are they more likely to blame it on, themselves or the rifle? I respect veterans but often take what they say with a grain of salt. Memories fade, Mandela effect happens, etc. Like the WWII vet who said he used an M14, I smile and nod because I knew he was wrong but I dont get off proving old men im right.
My great grandad fought in the first world war with a StG44 and his father before him fought a ghost with an MP7.
Very honourable of you. People need to be more wise like this. Well done.
That book-- Last Stand of Fox Company attributed it to the abnormally, as in extremely low temperatures of the Chosin Reservoir during the Marines retreat, and the practice of Chinese assault troops to wear 2-3 vests of tough, roped or braided goat felt under their heavy winter coats. Combined with low accuracy, I think those previous two factors could definitely cause a reduction in effectiveness of the weapon.
The M2 does recoil, but on full-auto you can manage the recoil rather well. I fired the M1/M2, a lot, and the recoil is very minimal, whether in semi- or full auto mode. I've experienced the recoil as a push back, mostly, not a muzzle flip. I fired the M-1 Garand while on my high school rifle team, and love it just as well. Used the Carbine in the USAF- Security Police before being issued a CAR-15, or the M-16.
@@rexringtail471 I gotta be honest I completely forgot I wrote this comment, but thank you for that interesting bit information I will have to check that book out.
after some four or five decades, the categories caught up, and now we can call it a pdw
Isn't that for the very compact weapons, like the P90?
moonra, some are very stubby bullpups like that, but there are many that are similar to or essentially short ar-15 carbines. The m1/m2 carbines were definitely designed to be carriable and they weigh about as much as a p90
Hans Dampf, very true, thought the modern pdw cartridges are usually designed with armor penetration more in mind than with the .30
stereomike111
PDW is a marketing term that indicates anything from a machine pistol to a compact 5.56mm carbine.
The P90 is 15 inches [40cm] shorter than the M1/M2 carbines. That's A LOT shorter.
My dad carried an M2 in 52' with the 7th ID. He never had a complaint about that cartridge. He did mention once that while clearing out bunkers of Chinese/N. Koreans, he set the handguard on fire and he needed to blow it out.
rotgut14 God bless your father As a Korean I pay a great respect to your father who saved my country
rotgut14 common complaint on those and some you will find the fore-grip drilled on top and a shim between it and the barrel. My dad was WWII D-Day, and Korea.
FoxtailSean Kim thank you for the kind words. He left a lot of good friends there, that he showed me pictures of. It's very nice to see how what they fought and died for is still appreciated today. Unfortunately my dad passed away in 2010, but I know he'd appreciate your words. Thanks
@Keith Lucas
WW2 and Korea?! Shit dude, your dad's a fucking badass!
PedroThePanda64 I've heard of some people that fought WW2, Korea, and Veitnam.
It's kind of amazing that this thing was a couple pounds lighter than a lot of the SMGs of the day.
I'd guess at least a pound is saved by the locked action versus blowback's massive bolt
And it greater range.
One of my older brothers owned an M1. It was a small, light rifle.
"I probably have a little more experience firing a machine gun than the average person." - Gun Jesus
"Remember: short, controlled bursts."
That is true for almost all automatic weapons. The guy you're shooting at is just as dead after three bullets as he is after ten. Why waste so much ammo on a single target? Of course it adds more tension in a war film, when the MG 42 is constantly rattling though...
+ Mirdarion I think you can fire longer bursts for supression with belted machineguns. But not constantly, of course, aside from wasting ammo, barrel will overheat very quickly.
1stfallschirmjagerRgt: Uncle Sam taught me "yum, yum, get me some" for a 6 to 9 round burst on the M60 Machinegun. :)
I'm laughing that nobody realises it's an Aliens reference
Just realized someone else here gets it.
I like how some machine guns look like jelly when filmed firing in extreme slow motion.
I think they all do ... trying to design the weapon to not flex or move at all would require the gun to be unbelievably heavy, and actually might end up inaccurate, dangerous, and potentially highly unpleasant to shoot (the energy has to go somewhere)
Jumping in. A less flexible sword is more prone to breaking than bending. But it certainly does need some flex to it to function properly.
My belly looks like jelly whenever I fire one.
everything is jelly you just have to shake it hard enough
@@zaccabral8251 Words to live by.
"Are you an assault rifle or a submachine gun?"
"Yes, I'm a PDW"
Or just machine gun, because "assault rifle" is bourgeoisie political jargon for know-nothing politicians.
@@sik3xploit You're thinking assault weapon.
@@alahos It's an easy mistake to make. In fact, the people who came up with 'assault weapon' wish for people to make that mistake. That way they can mislead the public.
@@sik3xploit Assault rifle is very much a term that originated within the military / arms world, not the political world.
You're thinking of 'assault weapon'. Assault rifle is a term for any intermediate power, select-fire fully automatic rifle platform that is intended to fulfill the role of a standard service weapon as opposed to something like a base of fire / support role, otherwise a BAR would technically be an assault rifle.. honestly this gets into a pretty deep rabbit hole I won't go into. But the easiest, most basic way to think of it is 'intermediate caliber fully automatic rifle = assault rifle'. A semi automatic weapon cannot be an assault rifle by definition, yet politicians want to call anything with a 'high capacity' magazine that fires a cartridge of any substance an 'assault weapon'.
I'm pretty far left politically speaking, but very pro-gun (I'm an anarcho-socialist, go figure) for a variety of reasons. On behalf of all people on the left, I apologize for our often shitty views and policies when it comes to firearms. It's one area we really can't seem to figure out as a whole.
Sounds like schizophrenic weapons.
The M1 Carbine was Audie Murphy’s favorite weapon. My father was a Combat Engineer with the 1st Mar Div in the Pacific and in China. He loved it
It was Eugene Sledge's favorite weapon as well I believe!
I see "President T. Roosevelt's Fox Shotgun sold for $862,000" in the background... Holy cow. That's enough to get a startup going for a few months in Silicon Valley...
Collin McKinley it’s enough for 8-9 houses most places
That's enough for a house in the bay area!
That's enough for a mid sized house in orange county, CA.
@@sovietgradepotato9298 maybe in the ghetto of Oakland.
I wish I had collectible gun money. Of course, I would use it to collect artillery pieces but still. I want my historical military hardware dammit!
My father said very little about his WW2 experience. He did say he carried a carbine. I did a lot of shooting and hunting growing up with my grandfather who was a depression era trick shooter. My father would not go hunting. He said if he walked in the woods carrying a rifle he wouldn’t be thinking about a deer. They had a program years ago to get your service weapon back. I wanted to do it for my father. His only response was you won’t get it. After his death I found out he wasn’t in the army like he told everyone but he was a OSS scout for Merrill’s Marauders. He was still top secret. None of his family knew. He also carried a full auto carbine. One of the few things he talk about was how he liked the carbine. He did not say it was full auto. I found out a lot about my father from Roy Matsumoto son. The guy they made the documentary movie Honor and Sacrifice about. Both were OSS and won MOHs. Roy was left go by the OSS and then joined the Army where he went on to help form the Green Berets. This post sort of made me remember a lot of memories.
I actually got my father's m1 carbine that he carried in korea. I love it.
I was told by a Korean and Vietnam war veteran that they generally only used full auto on the M2 for close combat situations, and would put a hand on top of the stock instead of underneath to keep the barrel from rising when using full auto in those close combat situations.
The clamp-on "recoil check" worked rather well!
You can use your sling to help steady it in hipfire, my pop-pop told me. He was front line U.S. army in Vietnam. He went on to buy a Hialeah civilian model because they didn't let him keep his service rifle.
He was probably lying the iron sights on the m1 are so low you wouldn't be able to see anything and that hand guard gets extremely hot after even one mag of rapid fire dude probably just saw someone doing it with an AK
@@keithsimpson2150 Close combat at, what, 20-30 feet? Yes, the M2 can be fired from the hip. Been there, done that.
@@keithsimpson2150 he said close quarters, they probably weren't using the sights
I have talk to a lot of Korean War vets. And very single one of them loved the M2. Had nothing but good to say about it.
So did every personnel who used pdw
Any of them use the M3?
I like it.
@@bobhazel4507 THRUSH (Man from U.N.C.L.E.) loved the M3.
The m1/m2 carbine got too cold to work in super low temperatures. M1 Garand worked just fine
I obtained an M2 from the armorer of an ARVN infantry unit through an intermediary for 35 MPC including two 30 round magazines and a full box of ammo. It had been refurbished and was in very good condition. His unit was being re-equipped with new M16A1. He disabled full auto by modifying the sear but it wasn't really a problem for my purpose. The armorer in my company later obtained a replacement sear from another ARVN unit but then my CO wouldn't let me use it. In the mean time I carried it as a personal weapon. My detachment had a few old, very used M14 and an assortment of pistols including M1911A1, S&W .38 Police Special (4 in. barrel), Walther PPK 9mm,, Beretta 950 .32 ACP, FN .25 ACP, etc. With the '68 Tet Offensive only days away a Special Forces major with whom we worked bought 5 new M16A1 (USD 95 ea.) with his own unit funds to beef up our defenses. We couldn't take any of those M16 out of the compound so the M2 worked for me. I would have preferred a Colt Commando aka CAR-15 but those were still relatively rare in VN. In the days and weeks following Tet virtually every MACV field grade officer we saw was carrying what appeared to be an XM177E1 or E2 and I knew of one armored unit which procured enough XM177E1 for the vehicle crews using unit recreational funds (USD 120 or 125 ea.). Since they were always in the field they hadn't been using their rec funds anyway. Those were the only ones I saw during 8 months In VN.
Very cool anecdote, thank you.
Ppk’s don’t come in 9mm?
@@rockymountaintmp4436 Must have been .380 ACP.
@@rockymountaintmp4436 9mm K = .380
Beretta 950 is .22 short or .25, not .32.
A friend of mine that was in an armored scout company. He went from Normandy landings to the Hurtegan Forest in Germany. He told me that he replaced his carbine with a M-1 rifle. Unfortunately my friend died 2 years ago at the age of 99.
A German soldier probably picked it up and used it. German soldiers loved to get their hands on them. Perfect for urban warfare. Most combat occurs in less than100 yards. The size and weight made it better than the Garrand in those conditions. Easier to maneuver in tight spaces and you could carry lots of ammo. It has outlasted the Garrand by decades. I love the Garrand also, used them both as well as the M14 and M16. Unless I need long range I would choose the carbine. It was prior to the AR-15 the most produced American rifle.
Hürtgen forest.
PF's, RF's, and VC loved M1 Carbines, light weight, can't go wrong.@@jesspeters1611
@@gillmeister692M1 Garand can shoot through a tree trunk. Not so much a carbine.
I've always liked the 30 carbine cartridge and the carbines themselves. It's almost like having a semi or full-auto .357.
People: So are you a rifle or a SMG?
M2 "CARBINE": ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME?!
I hate how uncommon these rifles are becoming, growing up my dad had an M1 made by a sewing machine company, during the war everyone produced M1s
M1 carbines: "Singer" was the sewing machine company. Also made by "Rock-ola", the jukebox manufacturer, among others like Winchester. The overwhelming majority were manufactured by Inland GMC. M2: Just Inland and Winchester, I believe. But there may be some other oddball ones floating around.
Kevin McFalls look up the Singer .45 1911. Interesting story.
Lord Hood, How goes the fight against the Covenant?
Mine is made by GM!
No M1 Carbine was ever made by a sewing machine company.
Ushanka, shades, leather jacket, camo pants... damn, Ian. You're stylin'.
"bazooka operator" is really one of the things I'd love to be able to put into my CV. like, seriously!
My Pop carried an M2 Carbine as Green Beret with the 5th SFG in Vietnam- he always spoke highly of the bugger and chose it supposedly because he didn’t like the reliability of the M16 back then... but I believe now he said he likes what’s been done with the M4 and M16 family of rifles and would carry those over an M2 most likely, lol.
My Pop would tell you that full auto had it’s uses but unless you fired it in 2 or 3 round bursts he’d say it’d just be better shot in Semi, as it fired at too high of a rate of fire for his tastes- unless you just needed to mag dump as much rounds as possible during a SHTF/GTFODodge Scenario, at which point he said it was good to have the giggle switch.
I think the M4/M16 is even faster in full auto.
I agree with your Pop. I served 65 to 85. I prefer the carbine over any other small arm I was ussued
I did hear a rumour once that a bunch of these made there way onto the shelves of a gun store in Australia some decades ago. Apparently they "had some sort of second safety lever" fitted. No one knew what it did though. The error was eventually discovered and the firearms were removed from sale. I wonder how many were sold before this happened? 😛
I would bet enough that the Government wanted to cover it up and make the story go away lol.
All of them. There are still a lot of guns there. Large tracks of land a lot of money. Who would know
I heard the same story but with some SKS rifles
One Doomed Spacemarine I can’t remember the figures exactly but there were were about 350,000 imported sks/skk’s and only 20% were reported to be handed in.
@Paladine What bullshit. I handed in mine and I'd never shoot another Australian. What sort of weirdo even thinks things like that?
I always thought this simple conversion to full auto was very clever.
An old mate who was originally from Tasmania told me he bought one of these from a deceased estate in the late 70's. He recognized what it was but didn't let on, then paid the widow substantially more than what a standard M1 carbine was worth. He said it was fun for cutting down bushes and small trees! Ahhh, the good old days
Sham the govt. took all their rights.
Fun little gun! I had one for a few weeks while I was in Vietnam. The ARVN had a bunch of cool earlier US weapons and I happened into one of them thanks to the wheeler-dealer buddy of mine. I carried it when I was on ammo resupply convoys for our 105mm howitzer battery (great job: you get to sit on top of 7 tons of high explosive ammo to "protect" it - you have two positions: safe as in your mother's arms and instantaneously evaporated). While we were crossing a bridge on our way to Quang Tri, north from Hue City, I looked down into the river and spotted something large swimming sinuously toward the Marines who were skinny dipping downriver (they were supposed to be guarding the bridge). I fired my M2 down into the water and hit the crocodile and killed it (and startled those Marines until they saw the croc). We put the dead croc on top of the stacked ammo boxes and drove the rest of the way to the battery. When we threw it on the ground, all artillery firing came to a halt and everyone ran to see it. The XO, a tall, self-important former football player type came up and said, "great, you got an alligator". I said "Sir, it's not an alligator, it's a crocodile" and then chattered a bit about what distinguished the two animals . The XO said," Lance Corporal, if I tell you it's an alligator, it's an alligator". I took out my canteen and opened it, walked to the dead croc and while pouring the water in a cross over the croc's head, I said, "I baptize thee, Alligator" and then turn to the XO and said "gee, lieutenant, you're right, it's an alligator" and he chased all over battery position!
And also......my grandfather tells me that many of the Chinese soldiers had little black baggies of opium on them that were found on their bodies. He also tells me that US soldiers would often be shaken down by their NCOs and these little opium bags were then confiscated from the GIs. This may have been a factor with the whole "ineffective .30 carbine" stories....the enemy may have went into battle doped up and insensible to pain.
As for my grandfather....he says his carbine killed them as dead as any other rifle....no problems reported.
More likely the opium was issued and used as a painkiller for already wounded soldiers. There are obvious reasons you wouldn't want your troops to be high on opium during a battle, as any pain-numbing advantage it brings would probably be outweighed by the fact that it causes drowsiness and contentedness (not ideal especially for a frontal assault like was described in these stories).
US and UK troops also often carried little toothpaste tube type syringes of morphine, because soldiers get badly hurt and people in pain like not to feel the pain quite as much, and people trying to fight like not to listen to their friends scream.
Bags of opium are just morphine syringes for people without a big pharmaceutical industry.
I think you're making a pretty broad assumption here. The Chinese weren't a bunch of inbred Muslim insurgents who would fight high on heroin lol. Whether or not a select few abused said substance is another story. My grandpa had a few stories of G.I.'s doing such.
keith moore So that explains Haze.
Yeah this is true and as mentioned before can also be seen in morphine abuse among soldiers of many countries basically since its introduction, but it's probably less likely that one would want to take an opiate-based drug in preparation for an attack as it basically does the opposite of making you fight better.
One of my Uncles was in Normandy. He was a Tank Mechanic. His job was to fix inoperable or disabled tanks and get the back in service. Obviously opposing forces were not keen on him doing this. He was equipped with an M1 Carbine and had infantry support. In one engagement he was attacked by an enemy intent on killing him. In fact he was hit but was still in the fight. He was rushed by the guy who shot him and he emptied the M1 into him hitting the guy numerous times eventually stopping the assault. He went back to the 1911.
sounds like pervitin was involved Mr Jim. That said, the 1911 doesn't care how drugged up your enemy is. It is for that reason I carry an XD in 45.
My dad owned an M2 carbine. I have always loved the M1 carbine and getting access to this little beastie was loads of fun. It isn't difficult to fire two and three shot bursts.
The weapon is so light and easy to handle, I found it easy to get many accurate shots down range, very quickly, using it in semi auto mode.
Itsna great little carbine.
As an AP walking the line on a SAC base in '61-'65 I never had to fire the M2 carbine in anger, but I did have to qualify as Expert with it every six months. We had 30 rd. mags. It was still light enough to carry all day/night for our shifts. It was accurate and easily manageable. The select fire switch allowed automatic fire. Would love to have one now.
@Artax Horse There are such things as two legged varmints too. ;)
My father carried the M-2 while serving in the Korean War. He was a lineman.
Machine carbine should cut it.
Prarp Vadanathorn my god, what an idea! How did we never think of this
@@Tounushi in hungary we call it machine carabine even today.
Machine carbine was interchangeable with sub machine gun early in ww2 at least in The British and commonwealth. I’ve read British documents referring to the Thompson as Machine carbine and also the Australians called the Owen a machine carbine. The M2 is a submachine gun. It fires what is basically a magnum pistol round. We don’t call the m50 reising submachine gun an automatic carbine even though functionality it’s identical (closed bolt, select fire,), only differing in cartridge.
A carbine is a type of rifle.
A carbine is a rifle.
I like how rifle guys are exactly like sword guys.
This is a longsword, or a hand and a half sword, but actually a bastard sword, definitely not a broadsword...
Ian: the m1911 is a hard gun to shoot effectively.
Sergeant York: laughs
Jesus. That war hero? F*cking legend right there taking down what would amount to an entire platoon
Osama care 😂 you speak of the oldies
Yeah, of course, Sgt York's gun skill was the rule in the Army
@@tyler1107 Into the fires of Hell, the Argonne, a hero to be
Here is all I need to hear...
It weighs just a little over 4 lbs!!!!!!!
Wrap it up.
The police in Northern Ireland had the M1carbine in the mid to late 70s before going to the Ruger Mini 14 also used the
L1A1 SLR .
Nice to see the exact differences explained. I love my M1. Light, handy, easy to get hits at 150 yds+. An excellent PDW before the term was coined. With modern JSP, JHP, or CorBon DPX ammo, the M1 is great for defensive use. Look at the gel testing. I think Hornady make it in their Critical Defense line with the red plastic tip now too. I think the war stories, if hits were even made, reflect overpenetration by ball ammo and the less than ideal terminal ballistics of round nose ammo. Spitzers like the 30-06 and later the 308 will often yaw or tumble after they hit flesh, which increases their terminal effectiveness and the size of the wound cavity. The 30 Carbine generally does not, and just pushes on through (with nonexpanding ammo). Different ball game with contemporary ammo. More than enough velocity to guarantee expansion. All 30 Carbine ammo has substantially more muzzle energy (50% and up more) than a 357 Mag. That is worth remembering. Great video as always
Although trained on battle rifles and M16 kin, an old Inland M1 Carbine with an added 1913 rail and red dot sight and SP or HP rounds is a favorite home defense gun.
@@99Racker yep. Back in 99, my 1943 Inland turned in tighter groups at a qual shoot than the Mini 14's my small agency had gotten. I think we started at 75 yards and moved as close as 15.
...well it says it on the tin, it's a carbine.
That is a pretty useless term in this context though, as a Carbine is nothing else but a short(er) rifle. The K98 was also a carbine, according to the name, but it surely was significantly heavier and larger than the M2 Carbine.
In today's context i guess you'd call it a PDW, since it's not usually seen in frontline use, except for when it was fielded by the airborne units, who had a requirement for a smaller weapon, hence carbine. Same as how the cavalry of old needed a shorter rifle to use on horseback.
Teutone Some US troops traded out their M1 Garands for M1 Carbines because they were lighter as was the ammunition. The M1 Carbine actually saw a lot of front line use.
Yea but it wasn't intended as such in the doctrine. They did so because it was just on hand in the field. That's not the same. You have to pay attention to the "is" and "should" situation.
Teutone
The Maschinenkarabiner 42 is a Machine Carbine 42, but it's obviously an assault rifle.
Even Ian had noticeable muzzle rise on 3 round bursts while trying to control it.
My grandfather carried one in Korea. He was a medic. He loved the darn thing and I was lucky enough to buy him a semi auto Inland M1 carbine. One of the happiest moments in my life to see him reunited with an old “friend”
An online friend has one of these. I think it is the autosear setup which his stamp is on, not the receiver. Kinda like an HK trigger pack. So in theory, he could wear out the gun, tig up any wear on the autosear, etc. file back to spec and polish and drop it into new guns indefinitely.
He has had trouble getting it to feed reliably on commercial and some surplus ammo, so I was helping him tune reloads to the peculiarities of the system on an M1/M2. Powder selection is key, as is bullet diameter and alloy/heat treat (for cast projectiles). It's a neat setup for a legacy gun which can affordably give a neat experience to family and friends without wearing out an irreplaceable part. Getting the ammo cost down and reliability up really maximizes the fun.
GunFun ZS I've shot the full auto paratrooper model with the folding stock, these are a lot of fun to shoot!
Sir could you please tell more about the heat treament of the bullet and their density ?
True, the numbers on the auto sear means it probably has a register besides the rifle it resides in, and can be fixed indefinetly, as long as the serial number is not touched. If it ever fatigues and breaks across the serial number, its toast and there goes 10K or such into thin air.
@@Freko1970 No part of the M1 Carbine is called an autosear, trip lever, bar, carrier, or op rod.
You are correct, sir! M2 sear, disconnector lever, slide, disconnector, selector.
Comrade Ivan Kolumov
NIce one
More like comrade Lin Zhao - it's definitely chinese hat he is wearing
no it comes from the UK and it keeps your head worm.
my bad spelling warm.
One really can't insult a communist. It just isn't possible to insult someone who is still a communist after 100 million deaths due to communism in the 20th century.
The slo-mo of the firing action at the end of the video is GORGEOUS.
Ian;
Another change when this weapon was depot overhauled, was that the original flat top bolts were replaced by the heavier full round bolt. This added strength to the bolt (necessary in full auto fire), and slowed the cyclic rate to a reasonable speed. A friend, now deceased unfortunately, was an Army Sgt at APG when many of these late WWII/Post WWII modification programs were being conducted. He told me that some of the first M-1s converted, retained the original flat top bolt. The cyclic rate was way to fast, and that may be some of where the (Un-controlable in full auto) stuff came from. The other issue was that the flat top bolts did not survive well under full auto fire, and Tom, (the Army vet) told me that a couple of them shattered. The testing program was halted for a few weeks till they got a bolt that did survive, and many of the refit carbines, whether select fire, or not got the full round bolt. Finding original flat top bolts is getting harder, as most of the carbines retained after WWII were refitted with the full round bolt before being put into storage.
My Father was a Marine during the Korean war, and his M-1 carbine had the full round bolt, as did all the carbines in his Company. So the bolt refit seems to have been fairly extensive.
For those of you wishing there was a game with this gun in it, I come bearing gifts.
I am developing the worlds first and only Korean War FPS game called Battlefield: Korea, as a free total conversion modification for the now free game Battlefield 2. I released it on Christmas day 2016 after 11 years in development hell. In April 2016 I revived it after being dormant since 2009. We had to make everything from scratch since the original game is based on the modern era, so everything is newly created to be period correct.
www.moddb.com/mods/battlefield-korea
This has got to be one of my most used weapons in the mod. I used to love the B.A.R. in almost all games, but the M2 Carbine is just a damn sweet little gun.
We are about to add the British next, and then the ROK South Korean forces, but we already have the USMC, North Korean KPA, and Chinese PVA forces and all their weapons and vehicles and kits.
thank you!
BFKAnthony817 it is also in BFV
@@michelangelangelo7091 and it was also in Call of Duty: WWII.
@@stevenbobbybills it was also in rising storm 2 vietnam.
@@stevenbobbybills m2 also in waw
This would be my ideal weapon. I'm a fairly vertically challenged person and I have always loved the concept of niche sized firearms that aren't as often thought as mainstream for warfare. You could argue this was an early precursor to the personal defense weapons we have today such as the P90.
.300 blk pistol is a very small and fun gun to shoot. Enjoy.
I was in the artillery in 1961 (Howitzer Battery, 3rd Reconnaissance Squadron, 2nd Armored Cavalry) and this was the weapon I was issued at first. It was about a year later that it was replaced by the M-14. I never fired it full auto, but I watched our West Point trained second lieutenant put some rounds skyward.
Your reviews of firearms are fantastic. A great eye for detail. Thank you for these great videos!
Thank you, Ian. My grandfather carried the M1 Carbine and later M2 in the Pacific Theater. He said he used a 2 round burst and preferred the M1/M2 compared to the Garand.
Same. My father was Navy at Subic Bay and had a Winchester M2 carbine. NOT the conversion. Luckily he brought it home after the war. Thanks dad.
Thanks so much for this episode Ian. My grandfather carried (and used) one of these as a Radioman in the Korean War. He actually brought his home with him, but sold it in the mid 60's because he "got scared to own it anymore" (his words).
The more I see videos of m1's and m2's the more I want one.
Never fired one... liked the Mini-30 in 7.62 X 39 I fired, however... Now that Obama is outta office, perhaps counties that we gave M-1s and M-1 carbines to, such as Japan, can send them back.
I got my Carbine at a local gun shop for about $650 last summer. The ammo is a pain to find but the gun is so nice to shoot. They're out there. Keep looking.
what I found quite interesting is the amount of barrel “flop” after the round discharge. The super slo-mo really highlights the barrel bending. All in all, another great vid!
That is pretty universal with all rifles unless they have very heavy barrels.
good timing...just when I supposed to go to bed!
Same here.
Neil Rosh midday for me so....
yup. same
LOL Same
It happens so often...
This is some of your best slow motion work Ian!!! Excellent!!
My dad had a co-worker and good fishing buddy who was a Marine Corp cook on Saipan. He was among those in artillery and around headquarters when the enemy forces assembled 4000+ Japanese and made their final Banzai charge. He told me after the enemy broke through the front lines, they only had their carbines and one last row of barbed wire to keep them from being wiped out. He did not say if they had full auto. But there were a lot of dead at the fence.
11:30 "Ammunition is certainly available and cheap and affordable today"
How much things change in 3 to 4 years ;_;
Jean Marsh was taken out by one of these in "The Eagle Has Landed." I remember because, 'til then, I'd never heard of a selective-fire "M1" carbine.
There were American advisors in Vietnam who fought alongside Montagnard soldiers who swore by the effectiveness of this
.30 Carbine round in jungle fighting because the 5.56 M16 round tended to fragment when it hit the heavy foliage because of
the higher velocities.
Anyone who’s played enlisted or any ww2 shooter in fact, should automatically subscribe to this channel.
He covered literally EVERYTHING!
Even the most rare and hardly produced weapons. Like the Farquhar Hill Simi auto in Tunisia / Ally’s campaigns.
Loved your video on the M2.
My Dad was in the National Guard in the mid fifties and was issued an M1 Garand which he hated because it was so heavy, he told me he envied the officers with their light little M1 Carbines!
I now own an M1 Carbine and they are fun guns to shoot for the entire family.
This was an amazing weapon. The Indochina French contingent that used it against the Viet Minh loved it to bits that there are more users of the M2 on the front than their full-bore semi-auto MAS-49 rifle. In fact, in Dien Bien Phu, the Viet Minh received so many of these that they later also used it against the South and the Americans. With their love for this weapon coupled with the French MAT-49, many were passed on to the Viet Congs due to their length which renders them easier to do raids and such thus it's even more common to see Viet Cong troops attacking American convoys with M2/M1 Carbines (They also do modify tons of capture M1 Carbine into M2 spec) rather than the iconic AKM.
And I bet once they get hold of a Swedish K they would forget everything else.
"pretty slick little submachine gun"
- Gun Jesus
M2 carabine! The best actor in "The Thing from Another World" 1951.
The M1 Carbine was never intended to replace the M1911 .45 auto. It was intended as an adjunct to the .45.
One of these in 5.7 Johnson would've been quite the interesting firearm. Interested in the .30 carbine power/effectiveness video.
With regard to terminal effect in Korea. It should be pointed out Chinese troops wore thier submachine gun magazines in chest rigs similar to later AK chest rigs. .the 30 carbine round would have to penetrate this and then through padded coats under it. I can believe this would reduce terminal effect of this light cartrige.
Watching You Tube video(s) of comparisons of M-1 carbine vs. M-1 .30-06 on ballistic gelatin, M-1 carbine ' wound cavity ' seemed pretty good.
@@xzqzq I believe his point was that the targets' spare ammunition was likely to act as an ersatz trauma plate.
Johny Ricco
I mean then aim for the head
My dad is a Korean War vet, and carried an M-1 carbine. In addition the Chinese carrying mags in a chest rig, the padded over coat would also get wet and freeze. So imagine a 30 cal carbine round having to penetrate a chest rig full of loaded mags, then frozen padded coat.
The M-1 carbines did not have the same issues in the summer (lack of penetration). Also it should be noted it was one of the rifles German soldiers liked to capture and use, and the French Legionaries fighting in French Indochina (Vietnam) loved the M-1 or M-2 Carbine
Just found this video. As always your videos informative and enjoyable. Had one many years ago and sold it to a friend.
While stationed in Turkey prior to my reassignment to Vietnam our commander had all personnel going o the war zone take a firearms course. I was
temporarily assigned to the base amour for a month to be trained on weapon we had. That was a trip and as a young airman it was a lot of fun. The
MSGT in charge demonstrated all the weapons we had from pistol, rifle and even machine guns. My favorites were the Grease Gun and the M-2 Carbine.
We also had just got the M-16 sent to us and the MSgt was a stickler for clean weapons. He showed me how to break each weapon down and properly
clean it. From the Model 1911, M-2, Grease Gun, Thompson and other weapons. I was surprise to find that the only difference on the M-1 and M-2 was
a parts kit that I think consisted of three parts to change it from semi to full Auto. While in Vietnam I was at the base Amour and picked up some mod
kits and took them back to our squadron. I got with some of our security people and we "modified" some weapons to be select fire.
Had they gotten the select-fire thing sorted out earlier (for initial adoption), I'm reasonably sure we'd be calling the M1 Carbine the first Assault Rifle.
@@edwardrich2564 yes, but was initially produced as semi auto only to speed production.
Then many of the Carbines were retrofitted with the select fire parts later.
I have a friend who is a Vietnam veteran and he carried one of these in combat. He was an American in charge of a squad of beast mode South Koreans (very combat effective but needed American leaders with them to prevent them getting carried away...war crimes and all that). When his Korean squad was deployed to Vietnam they all used M2 Carbines. He loved his and told me one time a Vietnamese sniper in a tree opened fire on his guys and he hosed the tree with his M2. That sniper's Type 53 is hanging on my friend's wall now.
That was a great show ! 30 cals are one of my most favorite pieces of machinery. Had a set of two seats productions Still in box . Now I own safe !
The M1 Carbine not only went on to serve in Vietnam during that war, but in many other places around the world as well as here in the U.S.A by many Law Enforcement personel, the notable Jim Cirrillo and his stakeout squad NYPD used it, and he stated in his book it was the most effect weapon they used, aside from their shotguns. Growing up here in Florida, the 30 Carbine round regardless of the firearm it was fired out of, was the premier Hog Getter. A very popular rifle down here for self defense and putting feral hog meat on the family table.
It is also my camping rifle to this day. Mine was made by Inland during WW2. I won't part with it.
Well here's another anecdotal story, this one from my Dad, who was in the 1st Marine div. during the Inchon/Chosin campaign in Korea; He said the carbine was fine to carry but it was under powered at range and unreliable in the cold. The Thompson was for short range and too heavy including ammo. The BAR was great to have in a fight, but too heavy. He preferred the M-1 as the best balance of firepower and weight.
Ian you do a very good job of describing/demonstrating these weapons over the years I have shot a lot of different types of select fire guns and your findings are very true to my own experiences keep up the very accurate informative videos!
I fired the M2 back in 1970 in the Air Force , other then the fact it was a heavy gun to pack in comparison to others such as the M16 I considered it a bit more controllable in full auto cause it was heavier and didn't raise like the M16 did where you had to hold it down or it would lift fast on you . As he said in the video if you are used to them lifting on you , you know to hold them down as you fire . Maybe it was because I was more experienced by the time I fired it after having fired full autos before. As with any full auto it was fun to shoot but if I had to carry one around all day give me a 16 .
really nice video series. i love the carbine.
one other m2 part swap was to replace the flat m1 bolt with a round one. the round bolts had fewer high stress areas and were much less apt to get any hairline cracks cracks under the greater wear and stresses of full auto.
the paratrooper model is the sexiest rifle i believe i have ever seen. the ar180 and the fn-fal are right up there, too.
hey from connecticut!
The M2 Carbine was also used in the Philippines in limited numbers. There is an after-action report that details some of its combat usage in that campaign.
I think the man stopper discussion is misplaced.
This weapon was intentionally less effective compared to a full power rifle. The guys that got it had not to task to fight the enemy with their carbine as their primary weapon. Their task was to fight the enemy with something else. Be it as a tank stopper or bunker buster with a bazooka, with mortar bombs, with big guns as a forward artillery observer or what ever.
This weapon allowed them to do their primary task better and hit the enemy harder compared to carrying a full sized rifle.
In case of emergency it gave them a better chance to fight back as a pistol.
Had they to use it as their only options things were going wrong.
Norbert Blackrain you would be incorrect. Officers with infantry carried them as did many paratrooper units.
You are probably correct that many, if not most, of the complaints about the M-1/M-2 and its cartridge being "ineffective" as fight-enders and man-stoppers in combat has to do with men misusing the weapons. It was intended - designed - to supplement and replace the M1911 and other side-arms as the primary weapon for those forces whose MOS was not as an infantryman. Also for NCO and officer use, as well as by MPs, combat engineers, and other specialists. It isn't going to replace an M-1 properly, and anyone expecting 30-06 type performance from the .30-Carbine cartridge is going to be disappointed. Used as intended, however, the M-1/2 Carbine was an excellent weapon. For many decades after the war ended, stateside police departments were using M-1/M-2 surplus as needed and storing them in their arms rooms. Loaded with SP ammo, the .30-Carbine was an excellent fight-ender at most typical urban engagement distances inside 50 yards.
Had the semi auto M1 with flash hider. Loved that carbine. GM barrel.
My father was initially issued an M2 for Basic Training in 1951, but hated it as he kept bumping the selector switch with his thumb and firing full auto instead of semi auto. He ended up exchanging it for a Garand.
Machine Gun Motto: “it’s not a bout how accurate you are, it’s about how much lead you can fling down range in a small amount of time.”
The M2 was my dad's favorite in both Korean & Vietnam wars..
I would say that it is an assault rifle because it doesn't use a pistol calibre (45.ACP) and it doesn't use a full power rifle cartridge (30-06) but it uses an intermediate cartridge (30. Carbine). Also it has a fire selector switc and a high magazine capacity
Thank you for posting this demonstration. I recently met a 97 year old veteran that used a M-2 Carbine during the Korean War with such accuracy that saved his entire company from perishing. He got a Silver Star for his bravery and now I have a better view that his actions were in fact possible and quite amazing indeed.
Carbine Williams is one of my favorite stories. Have you done a video on him before?
I’ve owned a M2 and shot it extensively I would consider it more of a sub gun than an assault rifle. The 30 cal round is basically a hot handgun round and isn’t as powerful as an assault rifle and in full auto the gun just feels and handles like a sub gun.
The .30 carbine is considered an intermediate caliber. No wonder the .30 carbine has almost the same energy as 5.45x39mm. Furthermore, your "hot handgun round" view is nonsense, as a .357 magnum in a 16-inch barrel length have basically the same energy of a 5.56 NATO (obviously with the same barrel length).
Enjoyed watching, Comrade!
Excellent technical presentation.
The French loved this carbine and they said the effectiveness was underrated
I'm going with Assault Rifle.
While a bit anemic, .30 Carbine is still a rifle round.
ToastyMozart incorrect it's a scaled up pistol round
Although it is a straightwall case it is NOT a scaled up PISTOL round it is in fact an intermediate rifle round!
More of a magnum pistol round. .30 carbine is comparable to .357 magnum.
.30 carbine is a carbine round. And so is 5.56mm. We should have issued AR-10's to the infantry, and M-16's to support troops like we did the M-1 Rifle and and M-1 Carbine.
@@samobispo1527 I think the troop that would have to carry that shit around would disagree. Stay in your lane.
Hi Ian, & great upload in the M2 Carbine😮😀😃😃.
Also, if I had to take a guess at what to 'label' the firearm, I'd go with; a 'sub-carbine-machine gun' or a 'carbine-submachine gun'.
Part of the reason for why I say this is, originally the M1 Carbine was to take the role of the M1 Garand, Thompson, B.A.R., & (esp.) the Colt 1911 for troops who did work in supporting roles; cooks, engineering, communications, supply chains, logistics, ... & so on because (most/some) of those troops were not so much in the thick of the battles or campaigns. It also didn't make any sense for those troops to carry around heavy weaponry when they're already behind friendly lines to begin with.
Second, it's in no way a 'Assualt Rifle' due to the pistol bullet design 1.
2ndly, it wasn't suppose to takeover the role of the M1 Garand in 'blank fire' vs 'stopping fire' in military terms of execution(s).
& 3rdly, just because it mimics a automatic rifle or light machine gun 'firing', does not mean it's on the same equivalence.
8:12 at the firing at the range was a real treat. What I see from my viewpoint is, the M2 Carbine may need some tweaking on;
• bullet round + gun powder, &
• it might need to have a burst firing switch from; safe, burst fire, & maybe full auto due to 9:14 what Ian had mentioned.
& again, it's only my best guess of an opinion if I had to help give some advice to a minor issue. Who really knows exactly🤔.
Edit; I had left out another reason for a carbine submachine gun, most of the mechanics is in sub form, but it's incorporated into a carbine firearm which still makes this a carbine rifle with conversions of a submachine gun; frame, machining, & functions.
The .30 M1 carbine round has as much velocity and energy as a .357 @ muzzle, so effective.
Great video, what a lovely rifle, love the retro look of the M1 and M2, especially the versions with the heat shield. It's ugly and beautiful at the same time.
Fired the M1 version recently in Vegas. I can see why it was well liked. Light, pointable and very fast firing with minimal recoil. I think the stopping power argument is negated some what by having 15/30 rounds in the mag. Quite easily get 15 aimed shots off in as many seconds
The M2 was first used, as a divisional field armorers conversion of M1's, in July 1944, for the assault of the port city of Brest, France, by the 29th and 2nd ID's. There were no 30 round mags yet issued, so field armorers also welded two 15s together. The first Factory M2's were given to glider artillerymen attached to the 17th airborne in March, 1945, for Operation Varsity.
Not only did Wehrmacht solders like them in WWII (mainly M1s, very few M2s saw action during WWII), the M1 was also issued in quantity to the French Foreign Legion after WWII (provided by the USA). As Vietnam (AKA French Indochina back then) was controlled by the French, there were many M1s (and possibly some M2s) captured by North Vietnam when the French were kicked out after Dienbienphu. Both the VC and the NVA used many of the M1s and M2s against the US and ARVN forces. I have seen several NVA/VC M1s which were brought back, and they were in truly deplorable condition. But still functional.
The 30 carbine round is roughly as powerful as a 44 mag, though a smaller and lighter bullet 110 vs 240...but energy wise 741 ft.lbs 44mag / 967 ft.lbs 30 carbine....no one ever said that the 44 was a poor fight stopper! The problem is the carbine was expected to do the job of a full battle rifle by troops, not the job of the 1911 that the military envisioned.
"The 30 carbine round is roughly as powerful as a 44 mag, though a smaller and lighter bullet 110 vs 240...but energy wise 741 ft.lbs 44mag / 967 ft.lbs 30 carbine....no one ever said that the 44 was a poor fight stopper! The problem is the carbine was expected to do the job of a full battle rifle by troops, not the job of the 1911 that the military envisioned."
Really excellent points, particularly the last one. Nobody else has said this on this forum, or other similar forums I've read. Well said.
@@Sionnach1601 Right. You wouldn't be expecting .44 Mag to be effective at 300 yards nor would it be chewing through trees and cover.
I would say the M2 Carbine is an Assault Rifle, because it is select fire and it fires an intermediate cartridge round.
Eugene Derry assault rifles dont exist.
@@hunternelson3018 wat
SergeantHop assault is an action, ar stands for armalite rifle, armalite being the company that made the m16.
@@hunternelson3018 You're talking about the media concept of a commercial "assault weapon", assault rifles are very much a real thing and have nothing to do with the AR prefix of the AR-15.
@@hunternelson3018 yeah youre not a gun person. Assault rifles are a thing. Being an automatic rifle firing an intermediate cartridge. Armalite just coincidentally used AR for their model numbers. You should also know that AR isnt the military designation for the rifle as well. They refer to the AR-10 as the M16 and the AR-15 as the M4. The M16 is considered an assault rifle.
If an automatic rifle fires a larger cartridge it is considered a battle rifle. Notable examples include the G3 and FN FAL.
And shorter barreled assault rifles are called carbines.
I bought a cheap universal m1 carbine at a Shoot Point Blank that was labeled as 'broken/ needs repair'
I took it home (after my waiting period) and disassembled it. I couldnt find anything wrong internally.
Went back to the range a few weeks later and i loaded 3 rounds in the magazine.
Pulled the trigger and it fired the first round normally. Second shot, it dumped both of the remaining rounds at once.
Magazine out, bolt back, on table
I had the gun disassembled again, but now i had my buddies carbine to compare.
The sear had worn just the right way where it could not reset and we found out could run away.
We took his trigger group and swapped it into my carbine and it turned out that i had a decent little carbine that just needed some internal parts.
Rapid fire is only cool when you are in control
Great Channel I learn alot of unknown tidbits