THE ROLE OF LORGAR! THE SYMBOL OF THE EMPEROR?
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- čas přidán 11. 09. 2023
- Hey everyone Rho here! Today we discuss what the intended role of the Word Bearer Primarch Lorgar was...
General Spoiler Warning to begin as the events we're discussing today are from across the Warhammer 40,000 universe. As always I really recommend you read the stories for yourself first without spoilers! As that's the best way to enjoy the lore for yourself. So you have been warned and with that said let's just jump straight in!
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Considering The Book of Lorgar (Lectitio Divinitatus) is still used by the Ecclesiarchy I would say Lorgar was a lasting symbol of The Emperor.
Assuming that Lorgar was "made" in a specific way, AND assuming that the Emperor is honest about his intentions to stamp out Religion, then the only thing that really makes sense to me for Lorgar is that Lorgar was supposed to be some kind of a Teacher and Guide, being the Bridge between the "darkness" of Religion through the "Enlightenment" to the Secular universe that would allow Humanity to transfer their Faith in the Supernatural into putting their Faith into Science, Logic and Reason. In this scenario, the Emperor would understand just how potent and important Faith is to humanity, and how difficult it is to stamp it out - you can't destroy Faith by killing people, you can only kill the people. And the more you kill, the harder the survivors will hold onto their Faith.
Enter Lorgar. Charismatic Lorgar. Kind Lorgar. Patient Lorgar. The Primarch who will spend a generation to convert a population from Superstition to Reason, without killing very many - if any - because he understands that killing is a failure. The Primarch willing to forgive those who resist, and welcome them into the fold when they are finally Enlightened - and not hold it against them after.
Lorgar, like Dorn, Magnus and Guilliman, were the Long Term Primarchs. They were meant for great things AFTER the Imperium was created by the likes of Russ, Horus, the Lion, Mortarian, Angron and Curze. They were meant to build the Empire of Man out of the remnants of Humanity that others Conquered.
This... is an excellent take and comment. You clearly "get" Lorgar.
The ultimate iterator of the Great Crusade... Had he fulfilled his purpose, would anything been able to smother the Imperial Truth?
Ooo I like that "The Long Term Primarchs" I feel they all have Long Term Capabilities but those 4 in Particular certainly more than most.
He literally sanctioned him for preaching instead of conquering.
Angron was probably one of the "long term primarchs" if you take into account the weird abilities he had before the nails
Word bearer fans eating good this week
I forget what book this was from, but when lorgar post ascension was described as a 20 something foot tall, shining figure drapped in gold armor, very reminicent of what the emperor looks like. A mirror image almost
My take is that Lorgar is the embodiment of the Emperor's mask of charm or glamour if you will. This mask is somewhat showcased in Deliverance lost when Corax meets the Emperor. This charm takes a few moments to kick in even in the case of Corax.
Problem with this, is that this would make Lorgar no more than a walking, talking lie, something a good portion of his brothers detested.
I know what logar meant to be.
more of a leader not a fighter.
able to calm his brothers
looks most like big E.
able take worlds with just words.
able to make people obey him.
he is not the symbol, HE IS THE TRUE WARMASTER!!!
I always had the feeling that he was meant to take on the role of a Philosopher due to his need for answers and his attraction to the idea of a "higher power"
Intentions for some of the primarchs imo
>Lorgar: the emperor's voice
>Magnus: the golden thrones battery/head of the grey knights
>Konrad: Judge
>Leman: Executioner specifically to keep other legions in line
>Vulkan/Dorne/Perturabo: Structure builders/destroyers
>Horus/The Lion/Robute: Triumpherate pseudo-heirs just in case something happens to the emperor
>Alpha legion spies
These are the ones I see the emperor having a use for. It really did seem like he intended to purge at least a couple of primarchs. It's just that we don't exactly know which ones were safe(bar magnus). So those are the roles of the primarchs I could see him keeping if things went as planned. Of course they didn't. But still. And yes I do thing sangy could've been one of the ones who were purged alongside jaghatai. I can't see any use for either of them really post crusade. Even the khan brought up how useless he and his legion would be.
What's your thoughts on Angron (Pre-Butcher Nails)?
Thank you for spending so much time enlightening us about Lorgar! I've found so little information about him, especially here on youtube.
What else could he have been but a preacher for the Emperor. He didn’t have a rage machine bolted to his brain and spinal cord so to compare the two doesn’t really work. In my opinion.
I think Wolf Lord Rho is the best lore chanel on CZcams, and this video is best example.
When I started this video, if I will have bullet for every traitor primarch I would shoot Lorgar 9 times, and then I would propably kick him some few more times. And now I start rethinking all books about Lorgar and he is right. I feel sory for him almost as much as for Angron, because he was ment to be so much more, but then life screw him.
Great video again wolf!! Watching this makes me want to learn more about Lorgar.
Two other things: WB are I think the second largest legion, behind UM, and Lorgar always had an obsessive desire for truth. Maybe there's an argument for Lorgar as a judge; finding the truth of a dispute and rendering a verdict.
What if Lorgar was supposed to be more like a Malcador . Magnus the psychic aspect of him.
Guilliman's description of Lorgar could also be of Kor Pheron. Maybe thats where he learned it.
*The Emperor rorlling an Alchemy check to finish crafting Lorgar* - "Darn it to chaos, a Nat1!" ☹
I think herald is a good word for it. Maybe something of an ambassador for the Emperor. Someone who could win worlds with words rather than force, to be sent to the more evolved and enlightened worlds to convince them of the Imperial truth through speechcraft or to prepare the world for the arrival for the Emperor himself.
The emperor's plan B (or less ) was the current timeline. Lorgars weakness was a nonevent to plan A (webway) and a benefit to any sort of plan B (managed rebellion).
Beyond this he was a second string Magnus or Guilliman by a wide margin on each.
I think the emperor specifically had "backup" primarchs who could serve other primarchs roles if needed. Lorgar would've been a lesser and likely psyker sacrifice requiring but still an okay backup for magnus if leman chimped out at the red boy. Even his legion had a shit ton of psykers(which is why I think its more likely the blood ravens are word bearers than thousand sons)
Perturabo was a good backup for rogal
Ferrus was a good backup for Vulkan
Sanguinius was a good backup for Horus
I also think horus, the lion, and guilliman together would've served as a decent ruling triumpherate just in case the emperor and likely malcador died somehow, either temporarily while they reformed since at least one is a perpetual, or permanently incase some nonsense happened.
So much for the plan B!
I think that he and his legion should have be Iterator.
A master of the imperial truth.
He should have elevate the human part of the Emperor.
The Emperor could be a god, but he is only a man. Making his achievement even grater, showing what humanity can do.
Logar would have been different had he been raised by the Emperor he would have been the most loyal of the Primachs
He would've been the most loyal if the empeor didn't 9/11 monarchia and maybe zapped those two bald assholes
Lorgar was most likely intended to be a counterpart to Guilliman and vice versa.
You could create an Empire just with Lorgar,Guilliman,Dorn or Perturabo.
I always thought that lorgar was made for the ideological war, rather than a physical one. He was made to conquer hearts and minds, not worlds.
Your insight is excellent
How he was supposed to be the Emperor should have tought him. I think big E just assumed his kids would figure it out and wouldn't need his guidance .
Was lorgar already tainted by chaos when standing between Magnus and lemun? Must have been before he fell out with the emperor right? Does that mean Magnus, not lorgar was the first to fall? (He was obviously)
Magnus was actually the last to fall as he fell during the siege itself. Until the siege he was still loyalist just confused and pissed at leman.
@@brendanmuller7301 that’s when he fully fell though? Not the taint, the interest, the question? Coff**Tzeentch**coff
Was Lorgar involved with the iterators in 30k at all I can see him being involved with them heavily
"Lorgar's intended role, for The Emperor" real slip ups today lads
Also first UwU
in a perfect world I'd like to have it be Lorgar comes to the truth about the Emporer super soul conception and becomes the new champion of chaos undivided by assimilating the four Traitor Primarch soul shards to become the king of darkness. The reveal happens when the Traitors meet to talk about what to do about the Lion returning and Lorgar appears (visibly more powerful ) when the rest sense it they prod with questions then Lorgar tells them Corvus is out there too and has grown in strength, thus he being the most loyal to the pantheon beseeched the 4 gods into his plan. The other traitor Primarchs are not happy and a fight ensues between Angron, Fulgrim, Morty, and Magnus then they all get their shit rocked when Lorgar reveals his new Dark Edge lord form that may or may not surpass Horus. That would be an excellent way to make Lorgar a relevant yet powerful villain against the rediscovered loyalist Primarchs
I think the key here is redundancy. Not direct redundancy, but we see a lot of overlap among the primarchs. Kurze and Russ are obviously both enforcers. But Kurze and Corax obviously have overlap too. As do Kurze and Sanguinius. It’s not a 1:1 redundancy, but rather making sure that any one trait is duplicated among the 20.
Lorgar was likely supposed to be the face of the Imperium, but maybe the olive branch to Sanguinius’s arrows. He is completely committed to the “truth” in a way that is very similar to Russ (in that an Emperor-worshipping Lorgar would have been unquestionably loyal). He built empires like Guilliman.
So, I don’t think there was ever one “role” for any Primarch (save maybe Magnus), but rather multiple internal redundancies among the primarchs.
Excellent
I need to see a remake of Beat It with Lorgar in the role of Michael Jackson and the two gang leaders being Magnus and Leman Russ. All the extras being a mix of their legions. Tell me that wouldn't be badass.😅
WOW I BEEN changed on logar hes that good rember sandguin landed in hell/fresno walked for like 10 mins herd hay kid want some candy he was like no then he was out of hell found with wings if thay went want some blood brother we would be screwd but i now relly feal for logar now
Lorgar did nothing wrong, he was always intended to be spreading the faith of the emperor to fill the void that humanity needs to fill and that the emperor was directly warned about from the last priest on terra.
Such a good story that was that is often forgotten about. What a great memory you have!
Sets the Horus heresy in motion and corrupts Horus…
…and ‘he did nothing wrong.’
I doubt that. Big E burned every church he found and killed everyone who didn't except HIS emperiel truth.
His killed more people in the name of his militant atheism than all religious leaders have in history combined.
No. Not at all. This whole supposed "void" is a lie. Hundreds, if not thousands of worlds did just fine without faith after being brought into compliance by other legions. And look at the Imperial Heralds - the XVII legion before being reunited with Lorgar. There was no spreading the faith in the Emperor in his grand plan. Quite the opposite, in fact. The Imperial Cult was only Lorgar's vision. And one that he was chastised for.
@@Matihood1 but it was, he was told point blank that humanity needs something to worship, something to believe it you can't have nothing which has been repeatedly shown in the series especially culminating in Saturnine, the emperor didn't make that his plan but it was the one he denied because of his ego and his need to be right just like in "The last Church". He chastised Lorgar not for spreading the faith of the imperial cult but the fact he was so slow in progressing like his brothers, the worship thing was always secondary to the progress, which is supported by his words forcing them to kneel after Monarchia and the fact he lets the Mechanicum do whatever because it suits him and he doesn't actually care that much about religion at all which is also shown in multiple places in the Heresy series
I want the world bearers to get more spotlight
my take = Lorgar will turn down chaos, after witnessing how Emperor is becoming a god and return to be loyal, and in return - Korax will turn, after enjoying dark powers too much. Everything is already tried, same cr*p on repeat atm, so switcheroo is in order to spice things up.
Isn't it a point that no one actually knows what the Emperor really looks like, since what people see of him is the image he projects upon them that he wants them to see?
If so, does Lorgar actually look as he is described, or is he a propaganda piece the emperor made to give people an image of himself in people's minds?
Lorgar was supposed to spread the Imperial Truth using his gifts. Instead he spread the Imperial Cult due to his upbringing.
Lorgar did nothing wrong LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
A lot of people believe that Logar's intended purpose _was_ to spread the cult and that he simply moved faster than the Emperor intended.
Although I disagree with this for two reasons.
1#: if Emperor-Bothering™ was the goal, Big E would of developed better a way of controlling him.
2# There's no way all of the Primarchs and the legions would go quietly along with it, I'd say at least 1/3 of them plus other elements (Navy, Army, etc) would rebel.
As for Logar's and his legion's actual propose I'm stymied.
Maybe they could've been masters of propaganda or pretorians, but they were more loyal to religion than anything else really.
So IDK.
Symbol of Deez Nutz gottemmmmmm