Don't Believe the Hype: Window Shades for your Camper Van Conversion
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- čas přidán 18. 11. 2023
- Every company I've seen make these is guilty of touting the reflective properties of their fabric covered window covers. In this video I demonstrate that it is all baloney!
As I state in the video, the four companies I single out (The Wanderful, Vanmade Gear, Van Essentials and Quest Overland) all make fine products. I'm only picking on them because they are at the top of the results list on google when looking for these, but all the companies I looked into are making these claims.
If you found this entertaining, educational or even enraging, consider buying me a coffee...or a beer;). Please use the link:
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Thank you for your support! - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I made a set of window shades from 3 layers, insulation bubble foil, cardboard and vehicle carpet trim, best thing ever! Also used rubber suckers to hold them in place. Carpet facing out in the winter, foil facing out in the summer.
Stealing this! Great idea.
I bet this method works good for condensation on windows during winter months. Thank you for sharing 😊
Nice to have a very smart person looking out for us Thank you
Great work, and thank for all your do for the community.
Very informative and clearly explained. Great experiment and recording of your data.👍👍
Great information. So glad someone is challenging or at least checking some of the widely held beliefs in the van life world. This reminded me of a myth buster's episode. Pls do a review on the different types of wall insulation in a van. Seemingly educated and knowledgeable builders swear by one type of insulation over all others, but they all can't be right.
It seems like the best solution for heat rejection is to use a heat rejecting tint on the glass like 3M Crystalline, in conjunction with a white fabric on the insulating window cover, since black is so heat absorbent. Also having the cover sealed as much as possible, such as having a large number of tiny magnets sewn in, creates a sealed air gap between the glass which adds a lot more insulating value. I've been contemplating ways to use foam weatherstripping as a gasket to better seal the air gap when the covers are in place, not just relying on the magnets. This air gap idea has major clout. In the coldest winter in our Pleasure Way Sprinter RV, I used blue masking tape to seal up the vinyl roller blinds to the plastic window frame. This stopped the cold air from flowing down off the glass and dramatically increased the warmth when sleeping at night.
Just use the insulation without cloth covering. As a bonus you can get a roll at the home store cut em yourself and save almost $1000 , I can't believe how much fools pay for this junk.
In areas with low humidity, radiant heat from the sun is enemy #1. Best bet is to reflect it back before it hits the glass (or side of the camper). Best of all is an awning that puts a huge space in between the reflective surface and the camper, so there is no heat transfer by conduction.
Next best is to have the camper itself (or the windows) reflect it back into space. (Surprisingly, white is just as good a reflector as silver or mirrored, it just disperses the reflected light more.)
But moving inside the camper, reflective surfaces aren't nearly as effective. Putting Refectix inside the windows might reduce the amount of radiant energy being absorbed by the foam backing, but it sends that reflective energy back through the window, giving it a double dose. So, the glass gets hot as it absorbs some of the sun's radiant energy and then gets even hotter as it absorbs the reflected radiant energy on its way out.
Reflective window coverings are great for winter camping because they amplify the light inside the space. But the amount of radiant heat they reflect is insignificant and not worth worrying about.
For summer camping, reflect the sun in ways that still allow good air circulation (awnings are the best) and for winter camping focus primarily on insulation thickness and preventing drafts.
For homemade winter window coverings, a good starting point is a quilted $20 Walmart Thinsulate sleeping bag.
@@koertdubois6781 I made a set with the same 5mm foam material he is using in the video. I painted the outside surface with black paint so I essentially lost the reflective property of the surface facing the light/sun. I also made them 2 layers thick. I have seen someone have them with 3 layers of material but I have not tried that yet. I suppose the best design would be not to have them flat against the glass but to have an air gap for superior insulation, correct?
Do you have a video on how you made yours?
@@ray32825 the "air gap" would provide an extra layer of insulation, but unless it's perfectly sealed, it would add to convective losses, where heated interior air could leak into the space next to the window.
Excellent vid ! I get tired of telling people to stop waisting money on foil backed bubble wrap.
, my own shades are foil one side, black on tother, foil facing out n summer, facing in in winter.
I'll be pointing people to this vid to back up my advice so thank you for the time and effort you put into this 😎
I compared reflectix vs cheap foam sill gasket by insulating hot water pipe. When built up to the same thickness, the surface of the foam insulation was significantly cooler to the touch than the reflectix. I concluded that the foil bubble wrap is pretty much pointless, when 3-4 layers of it still transmits much heat. I think that the bubble wrap membranes are thermally bridging and conducting the heat between the foil faces.
Interesting -- but the video all about keeping radiant heat out in the summer.
Clearly, reflection is best for that situation.
What about the winter -- that's where the insulation part helps.
Great science, doing experimentation to answer questions is important. You’re a scientist!
Thank you. I had my own thoughts on this and it aligns with your research.
My new fav channel now!! Great content man
Thanks so much for this. Very enlightening
Excellent video. I enjoy your videos backed with facts, not just marketing. Thank you 🙏🏼
Commenting for the algorithm! Great information. Thank you.
Same!
would love to see, since you did the testing and have a good idea of what a real-world application would require, your own take on what the best DIY solution for window shades would be
YES, please!!
Totally agree, also don't forget there will be a sheet of glass in front of the fabric sending convection heat from the black material up the shade into the cab.
We just experienced a heated situation this past camping trip. Our RV was facing the sun in our spot. The AC couldn't keep up. Got up to mid 80s inside 2 days. Reflective foil inside the windshield and the RV curtains didn't help. I'll be making some shades similar to your experiment before our next trip. Great video
My takeaway is that you need two sets of covers, one for winter with a high R-value and another for summer, to reflect the energy away from the window. I live in New Mexico and would never use black to cover my windows. That would seem to create a heat pump effect, drawing heat into the covered window. I could use the dark covers from November to March to stay warmer. A kid at my daughter's elementary school did a study similar to this as a science fair project. Science!
Great video. I like someone who challenges the norm.
Good informative vid. For my back windows/doors, I use a shower curtain; dark in/white out all year long. All heat/cold is blocked from the interior when closed. Works for the front too, but I usually use widow shades as I try to park with the right side towards the sun.
I have several issues with "reflective insulated" covers on the inside of a window.
1. You are heating that plastic which transfers some portion of that heat into the interior.
2. heat is not good for plastic, nor is UV.
3. You're blocking all the natural light, which for some of us might be the point, but for most people - well, that's why they paid extra for windows.
Ideally you want to stop the infrared and UV from hitting the window. Awnings have the advantage of reducing the heat load on the entire side of the structure.
If you don't have awnings, you might consider attaching the reflective curtain to the outside, ideally with an airgap.
I will make my own with black on the another side and reflective another. Like warm day side and black as stealth side
Real world experience proves that window covers keep the interior of a van much cooler than would be without them.
I used a product called “Warm Window”. Would love to see your experiment done with that product.
Thanks for making this video.
The world seems to turn on false fraudulent advertisement. I am so old that I do not give a dam, just need something that works ok Making temporary window shades from cardboard from the nearest dumpster has worked for me for years. Cardboard is not the best but it works well enough for my needs. Good job on showing thermal property's of the covered shade material.
Here in Arizona summer heat, putting shade cloth on outside of windows works best, attach with magnets or office clips if raised window frames. Not stealth, but silver in windows isnt either. Insulated curtains on inside, easy. Hang insulated curtain inside door. Also, for cooling, figure double square footage to plan for a/c or mini split unit size.
Great information
I use mine for stealth, to keep heat in and to keep heat out depending on the season.
Silver on one side, black on the other.
Interesting point about the Emmisivity.
At night-black faces out. Day/black faces in
Nothing says Hey I’m Inside , as much as foil facing out at night when you’re trying to avoid, “The Knock.”
I just use cardboard cut outs spray painted black and hold them in place with push pins in the window gasket. Makes the van cave dark inside and slows the heat transfer from my heavy black tinted glass when the sun heats them up. Its cheap and it works good enough. For those claiming to be stealth camping with shiny window covers -you’re not fooling anyone.
Excellent points
Stelletek is the only place I’ve found that makes covers with polartek insulation instead of reflectix.
Thanks for the debunk!
very helpful!
Hi! Great job! I like how you don’t trust the advertisements and instead verify for yourself. We should all do more of this. I saw your build video on insulation (interesting background music), and I wonder why you didn’t use lizard skin ceramic insulation? There is a big debate about it and I’d love to hear your scientific explanation. Maybe you could do a video and end the debate? Thanks a lot!
GREAT video bud, you really proved that those fancy big money shades are total BS. Yeah they look nice but they don't do what they claim. Thanks for your time making this video
I'm shocked that these RV accessory companies didnt listen to their full time scientists that they employ to their staff
Excellent testing. I wonder about testing a white backed insulation instead of the silver. I read some place that white has a better reflectivity than the silver. Especially during the summer months it might prove to have improved results. Just a thought. Thanks for all the work you did to set up the tests.
Very interesting test. I for one am not too concerned about the reflective qualities of the foil since I really don't use my window covers in the daytime to keep the heat out. My purpose is to add privacy and to keep the warmth in overnight while camping in cold environements. I'd love to see you do a test of the actual window covers from the manufactures mentioned in this video so see how they each compare side by side.
Everyone knows that black absorbs heat. The reason for the black fabric covering is stealth and to cope with condensation water. Can you find a solution to these?
For years I've just been using a piece of foil-foam like that with magnets taped to it. Winter/summer use. Been thinking recently of upgrading, but DIY. Use the foil on one side, and then glue some Thinsulate on the other side (black side out), and hem the two together with fabric with magnets in it. Put the foil facing inside in the winter, reflect any heat back in, with 'proper' insulation against the window. Then flip it in the summer, foil to the window, with insulation to back it up. yeah, gonna be bulky to store, but I'm ok with that.
This is exactly what I am thinking of doing! Have you tried it yet?
Excellent. Let's lower the hype and raise the effectiveness. Two comments: 1) In the winter I'll take all the solar heat I can get. It seems like our window shades need to capture heat in the winter and reject it in the summer. How to do this? 2) Window shades can only be so effective overall given the amount of exposed metal around doors. Shades (that seal tightly) plus a "blanket" covering everything might be the solution.
I think a screen would probably be just as good to decrease light and to decrease heat. #1 reason I'd want window shades is for privacy and safety; to decrease light. #2 is for warmth. I would want warmth at night more than coolness while camping. I'm interested in keeping heat in for sleeping in my SUV at night. What do you suggest. I think the reflective device was originally to protect the dash and decrease fading/breakdown of material from the sun.
You want reflectix on both sides with thinsulate in the middle. This will provide the best insulation for radiant AND conductive heat. Good for summer (block heat from outside) and winter (keep heat inside).
Thanks for the video, very informative. My other concern is keeping heat in during the winter as I live in the north and want to build a van for ski touring. Would you make a video on minimizing heat loss through the windows during the winter?
Just use black foam (closed pored, like yoga mat) with high reflective surface glued on the inside (silver rescue blanket or Aluminium foil).
The reflective side reflects the radiation from your body or other warm objects inside while the foam reduce the conductions. The black color on the outside absorbs heat while the sun is shining.
Do they work “as advertised”? Probably not as great as you’d hope. But here’s the deal: I have tested professional window shades. In my case it was Two identical Promaster builds (Winnebago). In one van (my brothers) we covered all windows with the Vannmade custom shades. In my van, NO shades. Vans were parked in same orientation, 30 feet apart. We closed up the vans at 8am at the same internal temperature (68 degrees). At 2pm, it was 93 Fahrenheit outside. My van internal temperature was 88.1 Fahrenheit . My bother’s van.. 78.5 Fahrenheit. That’s over 9.5 degrees. Would a simple curtain have done the same thing? Maybe. Bot don’t fool yourself, ANY window shades will work to a certain degree.
Bubble wrap card and fabric insulater . I use suction cups best home made
I agree with you.
I made my own, just using reflectix and strong tape. It looks like shit but it does the job!
The only advantage to the fabric versions I can think of is that it is more stealth.
Thanks!
Thank you!!
I totally agree. The FIRST thing I thought when I saw the black windshield covers was: "why the hell are they black on the outside to attract the sun in more?? Huh?! Looks like Vanmade Gear now has a choice of silver on inside and reflective silver marine on the outside so looks like they have my vote!
@braxenaeurasiers3474 Have you ever looked at a van with black window shades? It looks like dark tinted windows. For those of us that don’t want to advertise that we’re sleeping in our vans, black window shades work for me. I use mine mainly for privacy and then flip them around to the silver side to reduce the rate of radiating heat. Nothing’s perfect, especially in a black van.
@@jtheiny ok that totally makes sense. Black on one side for night and silver on the other for day now that is brilliant!
What about keeping the cold out and keeping it warmer inside?
Prety much what I learned in high school sixty years ago.
They should be made reversible, one side white or silver, the other side black. Put the black side facing out in the winter, or when stealth is needed, and the rest of the time, use the reflective side.
You just proved the insulation works. You measured an way over 100 deg f drop between the inside and out for the worst case. The reflective bit is a little misleading.
Sooooooooo, what should I buy?
Where did you buy that insulation roll?
Another great and informative video-Thank you! I made my own window covers. I used silver reflective material that faces out with no cover, then a layer of wool insulation followed by dark cloth material that faces inside of the van.
In summer, the reflective side faces out, and in winter I flip them around so the reflective side faces in. I don't have any test equipment other than my hand.
In summer, when I place my hand in between the window cover and window, it feels very warm, and when I place my hand on cloth material facing inside of the van it feels cool. I'm not sure what's happening to the heat???
The only issue that I have is that they are bulky. I wish that could think of a way to compress them when not in use.
Sounds great. I’m more concerned with staying warm too. Do you have any problems with condensation with your setup? I like the thought of compressing them for storage - has me picturing some kind of self-inflating sleeping pad hack : )
@@s-c.. was in van for three months driving to Alaska and back to Texas. No issues with condensation
Would adding a piece of Corrugated Plastic Sheet next to the reflective add the necessary air gap? It would, however, add 3/16" to the thickness.
I made my this way and painted the plastic corrugated side black. It worked wonders in sub 30° temp with black side face out (trapped all the heat inside) and relected heat with reflectic side faced out during summer time!😉
Cool! There are window films with thermal properties such as heat rejection. Have you ever experienced this one? Maybe this could help.
We have this film on our van and it is a game changer for reducing solar gain.
good to know! @@FromShetoMe
Would white or lighter fabric lower temps
What if your stealth camping and only putting up the coverings at night? In this case there is no direct sunlight. Essentially your just trying to keep the heat in the summer air out of the vehicle, would a black surface matter then?
This is good work, thank you. But your own numbers show that S/B is cooler at the thermocouple than S/S. I feel like you are just ignoring that data to tell us that S/S is best. Your logic is good, but the measurements appear to disagree? Maybe an inside facing isn't as bad as one might expect? It certainly seems like further investigation might be needed.
It would be interesting if you built an insulated box that has auto glass on one side and reran the experiment with the temperature probe in the middle of the box. Having the glass between the heat source and the shade could change things a bit.
Yep, that is something I'd love to do, but just not in the budget. Even more so to test the various insulation options out there.
@@projectofscience you might be able to get a free broken piece of auto glass from a junkyard. Thanks for sharing your videos.
I think the foil backed insulation is itself flawed.. Or, at least it misses some of the benefit of the foil as a radiant barrier. The foil’s contact with the foam means that the radiant heat being blocked by the foil is conducted to the foam. And hence through the foam. A better product would separate the foil from the foam, which is obviously mechanically challenging, which is why it’s not done.
I think a better test would be to install the different insulation solutions onto a box with a thermocouple or thermistor on the inside.
What if you used a layer of reflectix and middle layer of plastic cardboard or corflute as we call it here in Australia and another layer of reflectixs on the inside, be interesting to know the results were
That's what I was going to do. Did you end up doing up
'it'
Some IR temp guns state in instructions Not accurate on shiney surfaces.
Yurt companies do the same thing.
You didn't test an actual product - yes you are going to lose some efficiency with the black. But the air gap is extremely important so would be interested to see a real product test. This has to be appealing for people to want to buy it and the black covering appeals for other reasons - aesthetics for instance.
I hate to tell you this, but your tests are not applicable, or a test that creates the applicable circumstances. Regardless of which thermometer you use, you're measuring the heat of the object and not what's being emitted. What's being emitted is the important part. Your taped thermometer is measuring higher because the tape prevents the heat from being emitted from the blind into the surrounding space. Your hand--held thermometer is measuring a lower temperature of the blind in the areas where there is no tape because the those areas are able to emit and dissipate the heat into the surrounding space. In other words, an uncovered blind is not retaining the heat, it's emitting and dissipating more heat into your living space than the covered portion of the blind. And that is bad.
Conduct a proper test to measure actual heat dissipated into the living space of your van:
-Make a box with a glass window (the smaller the box, the faster each test sequence will progress, but a larger box would make for a more representative test, perhaps a refrigerator box? If the box is representing your van space, make your window fairly proportional in size to to the box to represent the van window. It doesn't have to be exact, the test results will still tell you what you're looking to find out. What effect does the blind, and its condition, have on interior air temperature of my van?)
- place a freestanding thermometer inside the enclosed box.
-place a freestanding thermometer outside the box suspended in the air between the sun lamp and the window.
-place a freestanding thermometer outside the box and away from the sunlamp to measure the outside ambient temperature.
(Do not place any thermometers directly against any objects. We're interested in measuring the air temperature, not the temperature of any specific item or any surfaces. Pointing your hand-held infrared/laser thermometer measures the temperature of surfaces and items, not air temperature or emitted heat)
You're going to conduct 3 test sequences. It's important that the applications remain the same for all 3 test sequences......the lamp at the same distance and heat setting, the same box, same glass window, same placenent of the same 3 thermometers, same ambient temp outside the box, same starting temp inside the box.
-Begin with a control test (don't use the blind at all in any manner). Record the starting temps on all thermometers. Turn on the sunlamp. Record the readings on all 3 thermometers at one minute intervals (or 3, or 5 min intervals, but make it the same for all 3 test sequences). Continue until the air temp inside the box becomes consistent (the heat from the sunlamp should be consistent throughout all test sequences and the lamp's heat limit will determine when the air temp inside the box becomes redundant at the finishing intervals). Once that happens, end the test sequence.
-Begin the second test sequence. The only thing that should be different is placing the blind over the window (inside the box, as that is most likely how it will be used). Don't change anything else from the first test sequence. Try to ensure all ambient temps begin the same for every test sequence, the 3 ambient air temps AND the temp of the box material itself, as well as the window itself (this is where you can use your hand-held infrared/laser thermometer). Turn on the sunlamp and record the temps of all 3 thermometers at the same intervals as the first test sequence. Stop when the air temp inside the box becomes redundant.
-Begin the third test sequence, ensuring all is the same as the first and second test sequences, except using a blind covered with fabric (covering the window inside of the box)
-Compare the resulting inside box AIR temps from all three test sequences. (It is the AIR temps inside the box that will effect our comfort, not the temps of the items or surfaces. You have to measure emitted and dissipared heat within the van, not the item or surface temps).
There are two more test sequences you can do.
-Test sequence 4. Conduct the same test with the uncovered blind covering the window from OUTSIDE the box.
-Test sequence 5. Conduct the same test with the covered blind covering the window from OUTSIDE the box.
I predict that test sequences 4 and 5 will result in lower temps inside the box than test sequences 1, 2 and 3. I predict results of tests 4 and 5 fir temps inside the box will be almost identical. (Windows trap sun energy inside vehicles; placing the blind OUTSIDE the window should prevent sun energy from ever entering the window, and the blind being outside the box would be vented to emit and disipate its collected heat outside the box).
You could do additional testing on venting. You could install an adjustable vent at the top of the box. Once each of your testing sequences have reached redundant results at its finishing intervals with the vent completely closed, you could open the vent at controled increments and record results to measure the effect of venting on air temps inside the box.
Holy moly if you've got time to write this novel you've got time to run the experiment. Grab a physics book and learn about emissivity.
@@projectofscience it took me 10 minutes to write that. I've worked extensively with military testing of equipment, including parachute systems and manual writing. I don't think we have a "shorter" version of anything. I could have made a simpler statement without outlining the experiment at all. The experiment would take at least a day. But I appreciate your humor.
Like# 697
Your “study” is legitimate and very helpful. However, calling out individual companies is BS. Do better.
word of the day for me *emissivity*
Thanks!
Thank you!! Much appreciated!!