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CP workers say rookie engineers ill-prepared
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- čas přidán 29. 03. 2017
- Some CP Rail engineers say they're being assigned to drive dangerous routes through the Rockies, even though they don't feel ready for it
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Creel exercised a similar attitude in CN before he and Harrison went to CP. As an experienced and retired freight locomtive engineer who has had simulator training, I can testify from experience that simulator training pales in comparison to the tutelage of on the throttle training under an experienced locomotive engineer. Cutting costs will cost lives.
Don't worry, the supervisors couldn't run a train over that mountain territory either....Railroads are all the same, guys with 20+ years experience being watched like Kindergarteners by some snot nose doofus boss with 5 years exp. that thinks he knows how to do the job...and we all know, the reason they took the mgt job was cause they couldn't handle the real work.
I was told by an engineer when i was a child who worked for the Erie Lacawanna,Conrail,and retired from the Norfolk Southern,,you don't drive a train...You Run the Train...🚂🚂🚂🚂👍👍👍..the office doesn't👍👍👍
No simulation will ever be as good as real life training but it's the way of the world rush rush rush. I remember when I got my class 1 fresh out of training I went to drive b train chip trucks in b.c. The place I went to was lomak and the guy knew I was super green and he only went out with me for 2 days and off I went. He said that I would get two weeks of someone going with me originally😅. Everything turned out ok thankfully but they really need to have longer hands on training with extremely heavy things that could cause massive destruction.
We have a simulator where I work - and it is absolutely *nothing* like the real thing. Sims are good to practice procedures, but in the real world? No way. In training they give you an F - in the real world you get killed (yes I know it's from a movie, but true none the less)
Basically sims are just there to keep tabs on your memory.
@Rogeball PB efficiency at killing humans!
After 41 years as a conductor starting with Penn Central in 1973, the conductor's motto always was:
"Pull the throttle, blow the horn and ring the bell.
But, if this train jumps the track, see who catches all the hell"........lol!
The real problem is CP has cut the workforce to the bone, and squeezes the last drop of life out of anyone left... Not just train crew but maintenance and track workers, it's a toxic workplace full of resentment, corporate deosnt give an eff as long as they have a good quarter
Yep Hunters cronies invading CP most are gone from CN
sounds exactly like present day CSX
your words read like most Australian private rail companies….
@@H3avyHaul3r guess they know what they are talking about then. I know several people that work for CPR here in BC, and what i said is a reflection of the day to day reality of the majority of employees.
As a conductor once said "I run the train, you run the locomotives"
Exactly. The locomotive engineer is in charge of his locomotives but the conductor is in charge of his train.
3 months is just not enough 😮
thats for sure. CSX is very cheap my friend who is a CSx engineer spent 10 years as a conducter on 2 districts befor going to engineer school. spent a year under a CSX training engineer befor he could run the train all the way
In other words...subliminal implanting big train disaster coming to the CP line in the pristine Rocky Mts...environmental catastrophe coming up!
"Nobody could have seen this coming" Lac-Mégantic Mayor!!
You can't 'drive' a train since you can't steer it. You 'operate' it with 'engineers.' If you don't know the jargon, we can't expect you to understand any part of railroading.
in the old days, fireman would take decades before being promoted to engineers. Not anymore.
How contrere... new locomotives have what's called 'steerable trucks'.
Since Canada was once part of the British Empire, note that's the term used not only in the former empire, but in Europe and Asia as well.
If you want to drivae a Train, who should know how to use the brakes safely first...
They took "decades" only because it took that long to gain the seniority to earn promoted status, and because steam engines were extremely dangerous and complex to run safely.
Also, yes, you "drive" trains. Steering is not part of the definition of "drive."
A simulator should not be used as a substitute for real world experience running trains
I partially agree, except when it comes to emergency situations. You have to use a simulator to acclimate engineers to handling emergencies for obvious reasons
You don't drive a train, You run it.
Actually yes, the act of running a train meets every definition of the word "drive." I'm not sure why people get hung up on these unnecessary and incorrect semantics.
@@kensingtonchapp4819 Well having 30 years on the railroad we never drove a train. The engine has no steering wheel. We engineers regulated the throttle and braking be it air or dynamics to run the train and that's the correct term.
@@robertmauterstock7867 having or not having a steering wheel is irrelevant. The definition of "driving" states "to operate the mechanism that controls the motion and course of a vehicle." Therefore, operating a locomotive meets the definition of drive. There is no official definition in the GCOR or System Special Instructions of any railroad of what the engineer does, and it's a waste of energy to correct people for saying it, because they're not wrong. "Running" is a colloquial term adopted by rails and not the correct, official term (because there isn't one.) But, feel free to respond with insults and assumptions about me, as at this point, that's how internet conversations typically devolve. But, just to get out ahead of a few things first, yes I'm fun at parties, i have a gorgeous girlfriend, and I'm a locomotive engineer, and have been for awhile. Yes, I'm good at it, and yes, i was a nerd who got picked on in school. (And yes, i know you're "not surprised by that.) Merry Christmas my friend! Cheers! (For the record, i say "running" in conversation, so take that for what it's worth. *shrug*
Same difference
@@kensingtonchapp4819 You operate a locomotive, you drive a car, you run a train.
Years ago when Hunter and company took over CN management They were up in King City which is north of Toronto which watching a train going through Since trains aren't required to sound 14L at crossing in the city Unless to prevent accidents Hunter was ready to pull the crew out of service
CP also stands for crash prepared😂
3 months of TRAINing...
True. Bless those crazy people in Revelstoke.
You don't drive a train! You operate a locomotive and run a train.
1:41 - WELL HEY... better safe than sorry. :)
Wow, risky business
This is all thanks to Hunter Harrison...
100 trips should be enough if paying attention, reality you learn the most first trip by your self
That's surely the eeriest feeling.
One hundred trips is nowhere near enough time! Simulators are a good tool for rules compliance, but they are absolutely not a replacement for sitting in the seat and running an actual train. Every train is different, and has a different “feel” to them. You will never know that feel, until you get actual time in the seat running a variety of trains. That same “feel” is the first alarm a locomotive engineer gets when something is wrong. Once your gages or conductor notices something is wrong, it’s often too late.
i’d imagine its a world wide problems in the rail industry especially in the last 2 decades as companies have pushed the envelope (especially with simulators) on whats acceptable for someone who is trained/qualified for economic and logistical benefits especially with an ageing works force….
i see it in my own backyard with drivers being signed off way to early and only knowing half the routes ie. hence then having only half the experience to what an engineer would of had in the past
has led to many signals past at danger and other safety breaches by the newbies…
it certainly nothing like driving any other heavy vehicle
I can't pass the appitude
Why I retired early...Scabs are now the heart of the industry...
I heard you were forced to retire early after marking sick too many days off because you were out drinking whiskey and riding the skidoos with your buddies. Your even going to be the best man at his wedding.
@@finaldraft151 60/30 numb nuts...look it up...otherwise GFY...
damn it takes 5yrs of training in america
What? No it doesn't. I'm not sure where you heard that, but my engineer promotion training was 3 weeks classroom and simulator, followed by 4 months of on- the- job training, then 2 more weeks of classroom and testing.
Anyone know the salary of an engineer?? It's very typical to only change the rules once a disaster happens.
CA$100k p.a.
135000 on my line. can
depends on the route you run with CP.
Why do office workers and managers need to learn how to operate?????
Office workers and managers will run a train if the railroad ever goes on strike. Plus those managers and office personnel might have to check ride a train for rule book infractions. In other words bird dog the train crew.
Unions don't like managers to know how to drive a train. Job security i suppose.
Sadly there’s Nothing mightier than the dollar these day’s, I thought it was only in America but I guess no one cares about human life anymore.
Well I guess us old timers better stick around I got 37 years at CP and staying 3 more
Everything works on a simulator
new guy here, why don't they just slow down then in the mountains to reduce risk? This should be like driving a car, at the beginning, don't speed in the fast lane.
In other words...subliminal implanting big train disaster coming to the CP line in the pristine Rocky Mts...environmental catastrophe coming up!
"Nobody could have seen this coming" Lac-Mégantic Mayor!!
We are required to do the maximum authorized speed for that section of track. Operating to for far and too long below the maximum speed will get you written up and or fired.
Driving a car and operating a lash-up of 3 engines or more and having a mile and a half long heavy train behind you is quite different.
@@davidbarnett9312 exactly. I'll never understand why people keep comparing trains to other vehicles, especially cars
Seems to me that the Canadian government basically sides with rail carriers when disaster hits
Yep, nice video...... just note a little thing : they hire locomotive engineers already with licence, and not the people without.
The engineers are the trainees cannot be fired for not driving the train because you see the buck stops with the engineer if the engineer says that it’s too dangerous then he’s in the right and the company is in the wrong
Tell me how your investigation turns out...(that being said, I'm mostly kidding and I agree with your sentiment, except that railroads end up with too many non standard definitions of what is dangerous. One engineer may be perfectly confident driving a train over a mountain, while others are not.)
That guy at 1:24 is a bottom line American Mngr ,
@Joe Schmoe he's actually trying to bring CP back to safety and respectability.
That's It ! NO MORE KOOL-AID FOR YOU.
@@bluesky4591 this comment is so underrated