Faith After Deconstruction: Audio Adrenaline’s Dave Stovall Shares What Brought Him Back
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- čas přidán 10. 09. 2024
- In an online environment where deconstruction stories from contemporary Christian music artists seem to be the norm, Dave Stovall, of the Christian rock band Audio Adrenaline, shares his story of deconstruction into progressive Christianity and back to a historic faith. Dave's unusual story of meeting a local pastor who discipled him out of deconstruction will encourage you in your faith!
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19:30 100% relate. In 1994, People were brutal to me when I said I was struggling with doubts about salvation. I lost my girlfriend and dropped out of Campus Crusade. So terrified about heaven and hell and upset and wanting make a difference I finally emotionally unplugged after a sleepless night and dry heaving. Almost flunked out of college. I was convinced I was simply defective and no one else had these issues. Now in 2021 I see so many of those are nowhere near orthodox biblical faith. I reached out to so many people and pastors for help, read Os Guiness God In The Dark but nothing really helped. Slowly rebuilding and am glad that the secular culture is forcing Christians to answer the same questions I had 25 years. Growing up in a charismatic church was extremely damaging in so many ways and now it is only sound expository preaching for me.
I can relate so much with this! Prayed the sinner's prayer at age six and led a very conservative, self-sheltered life. But in college, went Progressive and eventually abandoned my faith. Praise be to God for leading me back to true, repentant faith!
The Holy Spirit does his work in our hearts. He actually is the one who saves and sanctifies us. The Holy Spirit is awesome!
Today the problem is the understanding of baptism ...
The true understanding is,
the BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT .
😇
lol
@@krismorrill justin peter's fanboy?
@@artistart55 Amen! And He is the Living Water that refreshes our souls. We will thirst no more, all Glory to God
How know it's real?!
This is so great to hear. My wife is going through all of this now, and it's difficult to know how to react/interact. She's so confident in her 'enlightened' views. I'm thankful to know people can come back from it.
Thanks Dave and Alisa for the conversation and your vulnerability!
I pray for your wife
I pray you would stand firm
A few great testimonials & apologetics & coming out of new age are people like Doreen Virtue, Steven Bancarz & Melissa Daugherty here on u-tube. 🙏
Yes, because God forbid people should find out the truth about the falsity of Christianity!
Praying for you and your wife.
Prayers that she will read the Bible and find God’s truth.
I suppose at one point I was going down the road towards a progressive Christian faith in my early 20s. It was after 4 years of living abroad, not going to church, and socializing almost entirely with non-believers in their 20s.
When I had returned to the USA, I still strongly believe in God but also believed the Bible could be interpreted according to different perspectives (i.e. there is no one truth).
My mother invited me to go to church with her. That very first day I walked back in into church for the first time in 4 years, the pastor there delivered a sermon that shot straight through me like an arrow hitting the bullseye of my soul and I knew I was wrong. From that day forward I rededicated myself to the true God of the bible, and not the one I was making based on my own preferences.
Praise to God who is mighty and holy that he saved me from myself before I got truly lost
Every deconstruction story I’ve ever heard: “Feelings... nothing more than feelings.” Young “Christian” felt some type of way, so they were a Christian. Then, they stopped feeling some type of way, so they stopped being a Christian. All we’re told to do to be saved is to believe. To believe: to THINK to be true. Feelings change morning, noon, and night. How have we so unbiblically replaced thinking for feeling in modern Christian culture? And how are we not teaching people not to build anything on the shifting sands of feelings? It’s so obvious. But why does this error seem absolutely pervasive in modern Christianity? I’m shocked and horrified that no one seemed to say to this man in his doubts, “You can’t FEEL God? Okay. That’s normal. But what do you believe? And why?”
Feelings have replaced thinking in the broader culture, and the Church has done little to stand for a counter-cultural movement as they have sought seats in pews and offerings in the donation boxes over truly saving souls and assisting people in their reworking by the Spirit into new men and women.
That's quite right, never thought about it like that. But I also think it's not only thinking. It's more a thing of the heart: to KNOW Jesus and to WANT TO follow him. (In the bible the heart is not the 'feeling' place but the center of life; the belly/kidneys are the place where you feel; your head is where you think)
God bless and keep this Dad and his wife. Yes..each of us are not like anyone else..God does this for reasons! I'm a parent..got abused for loving son too much! Thats the sick world saying Dont be attached. God loves us to be loving..and not spread ourselves so thin..We need brothers and sisters being Accepting. NOT force an ideal of We are Machines, without feeling. KIDS don't do well if you Make reasons u can't be there. Pray to God we don't become Outer Appearance promoters. Talk about teaching..And allow the time for Persons to Be with their family..some friends. LEAVE room for those you don't know...I wonder how many "ordered" families are allowed to BE A BLESSING. ie..Skip food, skip ur planned things. JESUS..help us not be controlling the plans.
Very true. This is what happens when the church doesn't teach the Holy Scriptures in its context and simply apply it to people's lives. You end up with a Christian culture that relies on feelings instead of truth.
With all due respect feelings are not always the case of why people walk away from faith in God. For many it may be but for me it was intellect. I know my bible well, was a passionate Christian and leader. I walked away from fundamentalist Christianity because many of it's claims on truth can literally be proven false. Fundamentalist and evangelical Christianity is a modern (19th century) movement. It is a response to the archeology, and the critical historical method that developed in the 19th century.
Christians of the past talked about that God speaks through his world and his word. If there is a condracdition between them then it is our interpretation of the word which has gone astray. Fundamentalist Christianity has no future because anyone who becomes educated in sciences or history will find out that a literal interpretation of the Bible is impossible. For example, a literal Adam and eve is impossible given our learning in genetics and since we mapped the human genome, studying history of the ancient Middle East, a global flood etc. The error of fundamentalist Christianity is drawing battle lines and telling people that the bible is either 100% true or it is false.
Nobody need loose faith over this but inerrancy of scripture can easily be shown to be false.
Comment for the algorithm, our young Christians need this
What a wonderful story of HOPE, RESTORATION and God's glorious mercy! Thank you for your testimony, Dave. I'm so thankful for you, Alisa and your obedience to our Savior. Keep fighting this good fight of faith! All glory to God, amen!
One of the most helpful interviews I have heard so far! As a person who has had to deconstruct my own false religion since 2019 and whose adult children are in the deconstruction process of their own, this conversation hit the mark! My deconstruction is taking me to the truth of orthodox Christianity, my children’s deconstruction is taking them as far as possible from the Bible. So much of what I heard from you both gave me hope as well as constructive advice and clarity. God bless you both and I can’t thank you enough for what you’re doing.
That's interesting. It's all about the heart of the person and their fear of God and conviction about eternity that makes them either draw closer to him or go farther away.
I hope you can reach your children and reclaim them someday.
Brother, as a fellow alabamian, I heard that alabama southern accent the moment you spoke. Ya just can't take it ALL out 😆😆
I too am Bama born and raised. Let that accent flow honey!
Same! Dead obvious
👋🏻
The parallels of our stories. I had a deconstruction time in college, and played in a Christian Pop-punk band. Now I am a praise and discipleship director at a church in the Pacific Northwest. We have had a college outreach ministry for the past five years having conversations like this (offering free coffee, food, and conversation). Thank you for sharing your story, Jesus is faithful!
Alisa you are doing such important work and putting out great content! I'm really thankful for your podcast and I have shared your podcast with my Apologetics group! Keep it up!
Right!! Agreed!
I've introduced my teenage son to Audio Adrenaline, among other groups. He wonders why they don't make music like that anymore!
Blue Like Jazz!! I loved that book...it never really affected me or my faith, but looking back now, I'm grateful for the Lord's protection.
What you mean
Man I wept when Alissa said the first step for Dave in reconstruction was when he felt genuinely respected and loved, and then his description after that of Bobby wanting to understand him, not just wanting to “throw a zinger” as Alissa said. Beautiful truth. (“Speak the truth in love,” and “He who speaks before he listens, that is his folly and shame”) She also mentioned that if you don’t know enough you can react in fear which I think results in anger a lot of times. That’s where I still am, and I’m thankful I realize that. I’m SO triggered by progressive Christian claims because I’m still insecure myself, and that makes it hard for me to respond to the people and the claims with genuine curiosity and love. I’m still “on the defensive” if that makes sense. Hoping I can get to where these two are. Long way to go.
When you become confident in your faith in God, you will not be triggered anymore. We see reality, but how people interpret reality may or not be true. When I realized that, I don't become defensive anymore and can listen more. Just know your limit on how much you can handle. God's Word is true and I have a firm foundation and He grows our faith over time.
This was so good for me to hear as my son seems to be deconstructing now. Great advice to not freak out and trust God!
I empathize with this story...was a rough time for me. I was not going to church or around any other real believers. Couldn't feel the LORD anymore. I was going to work in a liberal new age environment 5 days per week. My marriage was & still not what I expected. Depressed & then oppressed. I'm now on my way back....JESUS IS LORD!
As someone who was quite involved in the Christian Music scene it is refreshing and encouraging to hear testimonies like this. I have seen over the years many of the artists that I have listened to and were friends with fall away.
I am a total nerd!! I use word Hermeneutics all the time talking to my wife about biblical issues. EVERY BELIEVER SHOULD KNOWN THIS WORD!!! Beginning to really love You/ your work Alisa. I love this word because I love God, his word, and because having the Bible as the foundation for my life is the most important thing to me!!
The Word of God...In the Beginning was the Word and the Word was with God & was God. John 1:1 Jesus 🙏
A man who does not believe in God can never imagine what is heaven.- Sr. Lucia "If men only know what awaits them in eternity, they would do everything in their power to amend their lives."
St. Catherine of Siena was permitted by God to see the beauty of a soul in the state of grace. It was so beautiful that she could not look on it; the brightness of that soul dazzled her. Blessed
Raymond, her confessor, asked her to describe to him, as far as she was able, the beauty of the soul she had seen. St. Catherine thought of the sweet light of that morning, and of the beautiful colors of the rainbow, but that soul was far more beautiful.
She remembered the dazzling beams of the noonday sun, but the light which beamed from that soul was far brighter. She thought of the pure whiteness of the lily and of the fresh snow, but that is only an earthly whiteness.
The soul she had seen was bright with the whiteness of Heaven, such as there is not to be found on earth. ” My father,” she answered. “I cannot find anything in this world that can give you the smallest idea of what I have seen. Oh, if you could but see the beauty of a soul in the state of grace, you would sacrifice your life a thousand times for its salvation. I asked the angel who was with me what had made that soul so beautiful, and he answered me, “It is the image and likeness of God in that soul, and the Divine Grace which made it so beautiful.”
Wow, I grew up down the road in Corinth from where he went to school, and so much of his story at the begin resonates me me! Man. Thanks for this interview. I had no idea he was blogging about this!
Loved this. So glad to hear others who have strayed and come back. Thanks for doing this!
Not sure if what Alyssa and her guest are describing is common to people raised under Christian parents raised in the church, raised with college degrees in a certain amount of intellectualism and deep thinking. I'm 68 I got saved when I was 24, a high school dropout druggie. I never have had any college education. I lived a fairly low income life but from the time I said the sinner's prayer God connected me with good Christian Pastors, preaching the Word and brothers and sisters in Christ. I never have been a feelings kind of person like the 2 on the Podcast I have never walked around feeling the presence of God day in and day out but I know I got saved I know Christ entered my heart I know The Bible is true and I know that I have peace and joy and maybe that's what the presence of God is and that I have been delivered from a life of sin. Disappoints me when I see people discredit the sinner's prayer because somehow they have had weird odd strange struggles whatever with it when practically every Christian I know got saved after they said the sinner's prayer and they've been walking with Christ for 5/10/15, 20, 30, 40 years like me.
And I think just as the left uses certain words to make people feel less bad not that I think these 2 are doing that but the word deconstruction people who are deconstructing they are christians who are backsliding they are moving away from God. Lets drop the word deconstruction for what it is these people have back slid and thankful that the gentleman from Audio Adrenaline got his head clear and seems to have worked out all his confusion. Audio Adrenaline was this 68 year olds favorite Christian band after the Jesus People music of the 60' and 70's.
Zombie New Body to name just 2, tremendous lyrics and music
Intellectualism gets a lot of people in trouble... This really is very simple... Jesus came, Jesus died, Jesus was raised from the dead... Jesus saved ALL of us who CHOOSE to believe...
I think they're saying too much is made of the sinner's prayer. The sinner's prayer is made up - that doesn't mean it's wrong, just that the sinner's prayer without real faith won't save you. Having people say it without them knowing what it really means to be a Christian can (not will, but "can") lead to problems later on.
Right now these videos is all I have. Most churches here are closed, people are scared and it's hard to find someone to help me reconstruct my faith. Not to mention I think so many believers around me are progressive. Thank u so much for these videos.
Wow! I can relate to what he's saying😭 when I started to have doubts or wonder if I was truly saved but I know to always go to His Word His Truth God is not a liar His promises are true He is faithful Jesus saves❤I'm grateful He's my Lord and Savior even when things in my life seems contradictory, and or your circumstances even sometimes not understand why thing or that is happening I know to trust Him in all things regardless grow stronger in my faith
I need hope for my 42year old son! Haven't spoken in two years.
I dont know your story but I disconnected from my mom for 2 1/2 years and we now have the BEST relationship! If that disconnect didn't happen we would have such a great relationship! Seek God and he will heal all wounds! I had a very tumultuous relationship with my mom all through my life so redemption is possible! There is HOPE!
.....praying for The Goodness of God, draws him back, and you all back together as family, along with a living relationship in Christ.
@@worshiptimewithax thank you!
@@crazydays4444 thank you!
@Ron and Debra
All Glory to God' & most welcome'
I love your ministry, Alisa. Thank you for all the effort and energy you put into your podcasts and into your book. You’ve been creating a powerful resource for us.
I am getting to the end of your testimony and loving it!! I can relate a lot. God took me to a place where the people were truly invested in my salvation, not in being right. It meant that they were ready to have the tough conversations and literally, had a cheek ready for me to slap. Gods love for me through them. A truly amazing thing to receive and learn to live by.
If there is anyone here who is deconstructing and leaning into progressive Christianity, please, please, wait. No matter what the reason, take a deep breath. I fully deconstructed, to the point of Dave Stovall, and it has been so hard to begin reconstructing... especially alone. The lifestlye of progressive Christianity is so lovely or so enticing but when the Holy Spirit calls you back to the foundation, the struggle will be overwhelming. Progressive Christinaity is not worth the blow your relationship with God will take. ❤✝️
The point of deconstruction is growth, healing, and not having a particular belief destination in mind. It's no ones job to try to get people to believe a certain way, and that's not healthy. If someone is a progressive Christian, that absolutely doesn't mean they have less of a relationship with God or have less sense of truth.
To anyone who is deconstructing who reads this, just know that you're not alone and it's YOUR journey, not someone else's.
@@SapphirePanorama deconstruction is tearing down, destroying!
See : Dr.Michael Heiser videos for good reconstuction !
@@davidjanbaz7728 absolutely - it is tearing down what is harmful, useless, and dead. Like pruning off the dead stuff on a tree or shrub. That way, growth can be healthier and the plant (aka person) can thrive. Deconstruction is difficult, but so important, and those going through it deserve to have kindness and understanding.
Knowing what the Bible says and seeing how it all points to the The death and resurrection of Jesus and why that was necessary, holding up a mirror so we can see ourselves and our need for what He did - soooo important. So many aspects of that were neglected for so long.
Wow, this was one of the best interviews yet!! Thx to both for ur openness and honesty. Listening to your interviews has given me confidence to start reaching out to some very hurt and angry 20 somethings from my former church. I'm so grateful!! Side note: when our faith is based on our feelings, that's a precarious place to be in. Its the object of our faith (Jesus) that saves, not the amount of our feelings. Faith is more like an active TRUST IN Jesus.
This is the first podcast I’ve watched. I have an 18 year old and he is a Christian, but I worry about his own personal holiness because he has a disdain for the “religious” people. This gives me hope that he can work through that and come out stronger in his faith on the other side.
Praise the Lord for bringing Dave back around. Those who seek the truth will find it. A promise true for all. Thanks for the great content. Always.
*Dave Stovall and Alisa Childers are STILL on a journey of learning and growing.* :)
This was beyond helpful for me at a crucial spiraling time. Will definitely keep in touch with you two and hopefully see you soon.
Dave's humility is incredibly moving. Thank you for sharing your story.
But to think the entire time, the Holy Spirit WAS working in you both and revealed the truth! He is SO GOOD!!
Glad to hear someone point out the importance of a literal 6-day Genesis/creation to traditional, biblical Christianity. Thanks for pointing that out! It's so foundational to the gospel and NT theology. ❤
So good! Thank you for sharing this conversation. And, yes, yes, yes - hope for loved ones. Let's keep praying, ya'll! :)
And this is podcast that finally did it, finally convinced me to join your patreon community in order to hear and learn more. Excited to be "on the team" with you, Alisa!
Truly appreciate the way you share the tough subjects. Thanks, Alisa and Dave for sharing Jesus!
Very amazing story to hear! I pray for brothers & sisters in Christ that are in a moment of deconstruction, reconstructing, or doubt that God gives them guidance on who to go to that can not just help them get back to their faith in God & roots of historical Christianity but also walk life with them. I give so much props to leaders in the church that have such a patience & heart to disciple just how Dave was. Beautiful reminder for me to not lose hope in to praying for family in the faith that are going through it. God bless you both & your ministry
The whole concept of “feeling the Lord’s presence” is problematic to me. Is that even biblical? Where are we promised that we will “feel His presence”? Nowhere. He said he would be with us always. Not that we would feel it. This need for feeling is a huge trap for doubt.
Me too. I'm not against feelings by any means, but it's almost walking by sight and not by faith for some people. The Truth of God is revealed by scripture and not by how we feel.
Those books were classic Genesis 3:1 “...did God really say...?”
Dr.Michael Heiser videos answer your question!
Thank you for this interview. Really encouraging as we see so many falling for a false theology before deconstructing. Praising The Lord that our brother Dave came back to Christ!
This was excellent in many ways but primarily it exposes the main conflict in which orthodox Christianity is engaged, deception or biblically the apostosia (see 2 Thess. 2). Our age of constant information confronts our belief in the authority of scripture. And the deconstruction you both described brought you back to the place ( as I believe it does all true believers) where we don’t live by feelings, or our cultural pressures but in the living Word of God that abides forever!
I remember how common “rededicating your life to Christ” was for Baptists in the 90’s and early 2000’s. Charismatics embrace being able to lose your salvation and thankfully we’ve owned “once saved always saved”. However, I do agree that there’s been some deep flaws with how somebody gets saved. The prayer is based on the Roman’s Road primarily off of Romans 10:9 and Romans 3:23. There’s nothing inherently wrong about that but the major flaw here that many other denominations get right is discipleship through things like catechism. Baptists in many ways saved a bunch of kids at VBS and did a very poor job of following up and showing people what their faith really means and what living as a Christian is about. I’m probably 10 years under this guy but so many of my experiences are very similar. I had a crisis of faith in college and the BCM of BSU did so much to walk me through things and I praise God for what he’s done in my life in making my faith real.
I just saw you guys at SES, which was AMAZING! It was cool to go deeper into the conversation via this interview.
Thanks for addressing the destructiveness of deconstruction Alisa, now in multiple testimonies/interviews and straight-froward clarity.
Guys, the emphasis on arguments, debates, logic and reason, sets us up to be very vulnerable to the arguments of those who want to talk us out of believing in Jesus, and belief in God in general. When we believe that anyone who presents a logical argument we can't answer, wins the battle for truth, we are so vulnerable to seeming to have lost our faith. The fact that the average Christian goes to the list of apologist-supplied "reasons for our faith" to answer the questions, "why do you believe?", or "how did you come to believe in Jesus?", but if that is not really why _we_ believed, then we are not telling the truth about faith. Those ideas are useful, but not as the answer to a question which makes us liars to answer it that way. For how we really come into a biblical faith, we need to look to what the Bible says, particularly Jesus.
Jesus taught us to be a fisher of men. How can you do that in a day and age where most of society is turning atheist or just straight up anti-religious? With logic and reason based arguments. Faith based arguments will often simply fly right over their heads or even just make them upset because maybe they experienced negative things with people claiming Christianity and so that's all they think "faith" is about, and they don't want to hear about it.
But if we give up on them that easily, we aren't very good fisherman are we? It's super important to reach these people, and trying to fix their doubt doesn't mean we have our own.
The metaphor of the fisherman is perfect too, because any fisherman knows that not all fish will bite the same bait, so they use a tackle box full of different approaches and angles to use, to catch any fish they are after.
If I am fishing for men, I want to be fishing with a whole tackle box too, because for maybe most people you'll talk to outside of the faith, they just won't "bite" faith-based arguments alone. So without some different ways of catching them, they simply don't get caught. But they can be, if we're willing to reach out to them in ways that they understand.
Check out this video by a Christian scientist who is trying to blow the whistle on how atheists have "claimed" science and reasoning, but how it's not theirs and never actually was.
We don't need to distance ourselves from logic. Imo, that's giving into the atheist propaganda that somehow logic and reasoning and science, are antithetical to the Christian faith, which is untrue.
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I don't need such proof, but the next guy I talk to about it, might. So it's good to have some logic based reasoning to be able to potentially save that person. We don't need to doubt ourselves and our own faith in order to reach out to others in this fashion. He told me to catch them, and I will.
@@inhalefarts We should not "distance ourselves" from logic, but neither should we allow ourselves to be bamboozled by it, either. The Bible tells us to not lean to our own understanding, but in all our ways, acknowledge Him, and He shall direct our steps. It doesn't say not to try to have an understanding, only not to lean toward it, but to acknowledge God, instead. And even if we think we have a bag of tricks or a diverse tackle box, nobody is going to be converted by logic alone. It will take the conviction of the Holy Spirit to bring anyone to Jesus Christ. We are also told not to allow our faith to be taken a spoil by "philosophy and vain deceit". Intellectual Christians chafe at that, but they forget that philosophers are allowed to see that there is a lot of vain deceit in philosophy, aka sophistry, and maybe there's another way that philosophy can be deceiving. No one should even be called a philosopher who doesn't love the truth. People who believe in Jesus have "received the love of the truth, that we might be saved". We should especially not be ashamed of Jesus or the gospel. We should definitely place truth above intellectuality and intellectual pride. We should beware of that, which is hard when intelllect can be so heady, no pun intended.
Just because a question can’t be answered immediately doesn’t mean the truth to address it isn’t out there. It’s intellectually dishonest to think otherwise. I think both sides should keep this in mind. If a Christian is struggling to answer a question, their entire faith shouldn’t rest on the timeframe of finding an answer any more than a scientist who takes years to answer questions for a theory. Just because the answer isn’t instantly there doesn’t mean the atheists “won.”
Hi, as a side note, so excited you will be at Reedemer Bible Church soon! How exciting! ✝️🏩💕
Yes!!
So thankful for the Truth that is being shared.
I really appreciate the authenticity of the people that you have on your show.
"Helps", a gift of The Holy Spirit.
I think the biggest part of faith is that you can’t explain it, that’s the point of faith. That you don’t see but you still believe. I know many people need every question answered but faith isn’t a head matter it’s a heart matter. For people follow Jesus I love them, for people that have turned from the faith I love them. I think if people looked at the life of Jesus, we would realize his actions, his ways, his treatment to others is what we’re suppose to emulate. Radical self sacrifice for God n others. To love love him wholeheartedly. Yes He hates certain things and that’s what we build our principles on, but I’m not willing to shove my faith down anyone throat bc the test is deciding who you will serve. “Choose this day whom you will serve.” Love y’all
Very good ! thank you !
We will not be ashamed of our Messiah Yeshua
Alisa, I'm loving your interviews & videos more and more. It's good for people to hear where people have been challenged in their faith and come out the other end recognizing it IS the truth.
Why
Thanks so much, working my way through understand and identifying deconstruction in my own walk with Christ and the impact of progressive Christianity on it as well.
I had this conversation with a pastor 12 years ago . When I was a baby born again Christian they Holy Spirit used to wash over me like a bucket of warm water and as I matured It slowly faded.
I described this and asked the pastor if this is how God matures us. He couldn’t answer me and now is a exvangelicle .
I think it is how God Matures us. Adolescence is defined by overly emotional behaviors We must mature in all aspects including Faith.
All of this will ultimately warp your mind.
SOoooo helpful, Alisa. Thx to you and your guests--the honesty and passion for the truth about Jesus fans the flame in my heart. Thank you so much.
When I was 8 years old I thought it was the order of the words, not the actual belief. Unfortunately lots of people still think that as they grow older. I can relate to what Dave is saying
Thank you for this hopefully churches will talk about this on Sundays as we see it's get closer
About the “magic prayer formula”... a lot of it comes from a misunderstanding of the conversion process. I’ve noticed that a lot of Christians put more emphasis on coming to God than God being the one who converts them, as if you’re suddenly able to come alive on your own after being dead in sin. The overemphasis on personal responsibility rather than God’s gift often leads to these feelings of doubt because the conversion is viewed as done by a fallible human rather than a faithful God. The trajectory afterward is usually that the believers is pumped to do all sorts of things for God and then falls into despair when they no longer feel motivated. These issues would be better resolved if conversion were taught with more emphasis on God’s power to convert and bring us to him rather than our own strength and will to convert. After all, the gospel is about what God has done for us. Anything we do for God is a response to what he started. I know mainstream Christianity doesn’t adopt much from confessional Lutheranism, but I think that’s an area where Lutherans have less trouble than other believers.
Great episode, seems like a really humble guy
Every time I hear stories of deconstruction I can’t help but thinking about Satan’s strategy to deceive eve: first thing he did was to question God’s word, to sow the seed of doubt. We really have to be very careful with where we hear the word. We need to know where in His body, the Lord is planting us and then not deviate from that. I don’t mean that in a judgemental way.
Alisa... GUR ELL... 11,000 VIEWS IN 24 HOURS! You Rock with The Message!!
I love this guys honesty.
7:00-7:05 From the other interviews you do, I'm getting the impression that a progressive Christian who is actually teachable will not be a progressive Christian for long. Either they'll come to love the claims of the Lord Jesus, or they'll hate them and abandon the Lord Jesus.
Great interview!
As a parent of an adult progressive Christian this was very helpful. But listening to the end of this podcast makes me wonder if my mention of Christ’s substitutionary atonement at Easter was maybe a bit over the top when we were talking about celebrating this holiday!😆
So helpful! I have some friends going through this. Thank you!
Well done y'all. Thank you for giving me a mirror to my own 20 years of deconstruction that by His Grace Alone-- I've been pulled out of, through the Holy Spirit Himself (The Spirit of Truth) and the Word of Truth- in just these last two years-
I'll be watching this again for certain-and will hang on to the link for when needed for encouragement. Thankfully, regarding my children, all GLORY to Our Amazing Triune God 🙏🙌, I can honestly say, with the Apostle John, in 3John 4= "4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children are walking in the Truth". Because right now 7 out of 11 of my adult children are in Christ Jesus +- though four more are remaining to come to saving faith in Yeshua the Messiah, which I hope will come in part through the Holy Spirit testifying of Our LORD through the first seven
(John 15:26).
Anyhoo-- Thank you brother David and sister Alicia for a great discussion of how exactly one comes out of such faith destroying deconstruction-- and especially thank you for sharing the hard wisdom of learning that the feelings will NOT always be there, on this fallen earth-- and that's when we truly must dig in deeper & persevere.
Luke 8:15="The seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the Word, Retain it, and by Persevering produce a crop."
- Love, because He first Loved us
1 John 4:19,
> GrandPappy pHLeGm of
Franklin Clan Collective
Worship Music Team 🙌🙏👏
Great info!!
Thank you Alyssa for your great show and thank you brother for sharing your story. Thank you for pointing out the strange contradiction of progressive Christianity producing people who are very loving and yet I'm concerned about personal holiness. This is something that has caught my attention so your assessment and explanation of it was very helpful.
Fantastic conversation! Thank you.
Thank you for that conversation 😊 That was good.
Thank you so much for this video.
I believe knowing the History of christian ideas is important ie when did sinners prayer come in, however in that same vein you need to ask when did the premillennial rapture idea come into thought. Why didn't 18th century preachers preach about that ? Same as why didn't tongues play an important role in the Reformation ?
Each and everyone of us will stand before God and answer to Him with our lives, alone. He will not ask you one single question about what you thought of so and so. He only wants to know (He already does!) one thing, “ What did you do for me?”
Where in the Bible does it say God will ask us that?
Great interview. Thanks for sharing! ☺️💗
Great video!
Thank you for sharing!
The part about feeling “enlightened” makes it soooo hard for me (an anti-progressive) to talk with the “deconstructed” people and those on that path. I know that the feeling of enlightenment is false; a long time ago I went through something like that, and I remember wishing I could put the toothpaste back in the tube..... hmmmm
curious what makes it hard or why do you feel it's hard? Don't know how to converse or frustrated that your view isn't heard/taken, other...?
@@ardbegthequestion I guess kind of both. While I hate to see people I love fall away from the Truth, I don’t want to lose their friendship either.
@@streamskat - does it have to be either or? And what do you mean by capitalizing Truth? Some specific truth about Jesus I presume or maybe going the step further and claiming Jesus somehow is truth ontologically?
When did it go from rejecting Jesus and leaving the faith to "deconstructing", I think it's funny how they change the language
Many or most Christians I know of who deconstruct are not rejecting Jesus. They are rejecting the things about Christianity that don't resemble Jesus at all.
Yes, changing the language does seem to be quit progressive within it self.
I think deconstructing is more questioning everything, when someone doesn’t find sufficient answers it may lead to rejecting Jesus but it can also lead to a deeper richer faith as well.
It’s interesting for me to hear the stories of other Christians. I was raised in church and have been attending as an adult for a decade and had never heard of “the Sinner’s prayer” until like 2 years ago. It’s still a strange concept to me.
I'm on a antidepressant and anxiety meds, so I try not to give weight to my feelings (or often lack of feelings). When I went off my meds for a while (10/10 would not recommend) I was convinced my child and I were going to hell and I was crying and deathly afraid. I was even angry at God for making me and my son just to send us to hell. I didn't even care about what happened to my husband lol. On my meds I feel God's love and care, but sometimes I'm empty inside and I've had to make peace that God knows me and that I have no control over this.
Intellectually I have always been able to cling to my faith. It's the only Intellectually honest position IMO. So even when I don't feel God, or I feel indifferent to Him (which sounds horrible, but sometimes I feel indifferent to everything, including my precious child and it doesn't last more than maybe an hour) I always know He is there and He knows me. The emotion or lack of emotion will pass, but the Truth of Scripture never will.
Dave should write a book with Bobby on deconstruction.
Thank you for this!!!
Comment for the algorithm, thank you for doing this, I know people who are going through similar experiences so I hope this is helpful for them.
Well done. Thank you
Excellent interview. 50:01 Can you provide sources for me to compile regarding evidence-archeological, scrolls, etc. When I hear Christians explain “when I looked at the evidence” or “if we piled texts (?) for the Bible they would be over a mile high (something along those lines)”. As a believer, I have confidence there are many artifacts and such, but I really have a desire to pour over everything for myself.
I am sure there are very good sources online that look specifically at evidence-can anyone direct me to those or books...not just philosophy or scholars talking about it. I hope my request makes sense.
A really good book that I rrcently finished reading is called Cold-case Christianity by J. Warner Wallace. He goes through systematically explaining things. I really enjoyed it.
@@lavonnesylvester8827 thank you
@@Yooperchic you are so welcome. He has other books as well. Another one I got but haven't started yet, by the same author is called Forensic Faith.
If your pastor is not challenging your mind, then you will not love the Lord with all of your heart, MIND, and strength! Seems like we were told to do that somewhere.
Please keep up the great work!
I'm so glad I found this as I needed to out words to what I've gone through. I am not liking Patreon though. Alisa, you can make $$ through your engagements with speaking at churches and your books and CZcams
I haven't gotten to the spot where patreon is mentioned yet but people should do what works for them. I've been on patreon for years and it's my largest source of reliable income. The self-employed generally have many different income streams In order to make the income of a "normal" job. Patreon is one of those for me.
Thank you!
Great stuff! Thanks!
Thank you💐
Ahh! I love Wavorly SO MUCH!
Holy Spirit directed Biblical literacy results in a high view of God, His holiness, His word, and His great salvation. So what the Bible actually teaches is what my wife and I, (as well as our church), should’ve much better taught our now adult kids, who’s around Dave’s age. But I failed to disciple my kids, and our church didn’t “do doctrine” back then because the pastor felt “doctrine divides.” It sure does. It divides truth of what the Bible says from what it doesn’t say, right? And so if you disciple in what the Bible actually teaches, you can’t avoid doctrine. The good thing about sound doctrine, though, is that it gives us a grasp of THE FAITH the church has held through the ages, not just “a personal faith” that the enemy can convince us to be of our own imagination and feelings. But feelings is the word Dave used over and over, and is so much of what churches are about, whether it’s about worship music to “feel God’s presence” or a small group Bible study where we sit and ask each other what we feel the passage means to us. Good interview, and I’m SO thankful Dave’s pastor took him under his wing to disciple him in Christ and His word.
Notice how it’s allot of Christians within the music industry that is having this problem. I will not support the “Christian” music industry. It’s not just progressive Christianity, but it’s a false positivity gospel stemmed in New Age Ideology. Audio Adrenaline was my first “Christian” music CD that I ever purchased, besides DC Talk. This was back in 1998 or 1999.
Indeed. Ignore Christian music, listen to Danzig instead.
Thank Alisa for being a modern day Deborah for the faith.