So Let's Talk About Holly Brown... | He-ART to He-ART
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- čas přidán 23. 11. 2018
- **I want everyone to keep in mind that I recorded this audio about 1 day after D'Angelo uploaded his video, so this video is ONLY in reference to the tracing controversy. I think the final message stills stands. We need to work to keep the art community kind, and though it will never be perfect, we need to remember it's not always worth it to throw daggers! Who is it helping really? If a person cannot be swayed by kind intervention than maybe they're just not worth your time in the first place. Not every one needs to be severely punished for silly mistakes they've made on the internet.
D'Angelo's Video: • "tracing art = using r...
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"Wander" By Emily Artful
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I want to be clear that I am not calling everyone who dislikes Holly an asshole. I'm talking about the people who have to criticize everything she does/is, including petty things like her WEIGHT. That's just so regressive. If you aren't a fan anymore, thats totally fine. Say your piece, stop supporting her, do what you need to do. If you want to turn this all into a lesson, that's great.
But it's certainly not helping the art community to sit there and continue to rag on her without doing any research into her type of content. I think we can all learn something from this situation, nod and move on.
Take that bad energy and use it to support artists you love.
And yes, I'm waiting for the "false positivity" comments to come flooding in. I know they're coming! Let me bathe in them!
I love you guys, and I know you understand what I'm trying to say. I just want to do a little winter cleaning for the art community. I care a lot about it.
your*
But with seriousness, I agree with you all the way
@@mysryuza Oh, thank you! Changed it!
Emily Artful 💜💜💜
I agree. I see so many holly brown rant videos in the youtube art community more than I see people working on their craft . 😬
I seriously don't think that those criticisms deserved a damn apology video. Looking at that and you can *tell* that it isn't Holly's handiwork, anybody could ovbiously tell and if it was that obvious she wouldn't have seriously posted it "as hers". At most, in her next regularly scheduled video she could've thrown out "yeah, that was a mistake that I didn't tag it well enough. I fixed it and am gonna be more on top of that next time. Step off haters."
I'm definitely one of those people that jives better with her personality than most. I like the "honest mean" people and that's what keeps drawing me back to her channel over and over. (She would probably not feel the same about me though lol, I am a verrryyyyy happy-pushy kinda friend and would just like pester her over and over to come sit in my house and do art with me and then not talk over our sketchbooks when she gets here except to force feed her baked goods.)
Watching the lines being inked is really satisfying...
Amy I know right?
@@parkchimmin7913 heh, there's so much drama in the comments and here we are, enjoying the line work ^-^
Amy Oh yeah!
looked a bit messy to me
I felt quite the opposite since she wasn't inking exactly on top of her guidelines, like she was rushing through. As a person with perfectionist tendencies, it just felt so wrong like... aaaaugh, what are you doing woman?!! I thought the paint was satisfying to watch though.
I have no idea who Holly Brown is and have no imput on whatever is going on, I just wanted to say damn those pictures look awesome in the end
Same, I came for the pretty artwork!
Yeah me too lol
Same but i like listening to drama and stories 😂
Me too honestly
I tend to use the Internet to enjoy things I like, because drama makes me anxious and upset. I know people sees me as childish, selfish and irresponsible but I need to care about my mental health.
The way dangelo wallace used to be a “moderately sized” art youtuber
i know right??? weird as hell looking back
Hes the new Shane Dawson with the multi part series. He just made a 3rd channel too hes a busy man lol
Do people even know he used to do art?
@@minglifeng2862 I rewatch his art vids sometimes
Now this is what I call actual constructive criticism, and also you really have very valid points, defs subscribing
It was a logical ruse your user and icon are so funny oh my god
It was a logical ruse a UA teacher spotted, smh
I love your profile picture lol
I'm not the only one eh? XD
Omfg your pfp is literally my home screen. You are my friend
"Stay out of trouble."
Yes Mom.
*pats head* Now here's some ribbon candy so you can go out and play with your hoop and stick!
663 likes... 3 likes away from a spoopy number. O.O
😒 ew
I honestly wish she would be my second mother. I legitimately want to learn from her. (I swear I do not mean that in a creepy way.)
Emily Artful I Wozniak’s some caramels pls~
I wanna be tracer
Holly: I'm already tracer
Im s c r e a m i n g
This is the best "I'm already Tracer" meme i've seen this year XD
BRUH 😂😂😂
Moldy Cantaloupe I JUST CHOKED OH MY GOD
Moldy Cantaloupe Lol I just got the joke
*_But.. but.. I spent good money on this pitchfork_*
"Wait, we can still use them as clubs!!"
@@cristaltophat yes yes, a genius idea
@@cristaltophat is that a pirates of the Caribbean reference?
@@tornadoskywind1286 yep
@@cristaltophat YAY
I think tracing is okay as long as its not displayed as their own, I used to trace a lot and it helped me gain a better artstyle.
Your profile photo has my heart it's so cute
@@Leilanibunny Thank you!!
@@retired3392 of course!!
Same here I only ever trace to get a grasp of how-to
I agree with you. I’d trace but not call the art my own. That’s where she went wrong and saying she forgot that she traced it.
I love when people I watch on CZcams talk about each other, it’s like an unexpected crossover episode
Ikr? Lmao
Its like Infinity war but better
Edit: which I love that movie
Most ambitious cross over in the history of CZcams
I think that everyday
LMAO!! 😃
we love an art mom that has a cool head and doesnt roast people on a pitch fork
Save for creepos and mean, evil people.
Yay good art mom!
@@wynngwynn People still calling Holly a rape apologists after all this time, lol. You have no idea what youre talking about.
eh... rape apologist?...sorry, i'm a bit confussed, what happened?
@@RedCloudfield i think theyre referring to one of her livestreams but that clip was out of context
This video was like a breathe of fresh air. Not because I'm trying to be a white knight but i really appreciate your logical and fair approach to this topic. It's so easy to just blow up and rant about something even when you have very little information about the subject (which is sadly the path that a lot of ranters go on). Even though I'm not all fond of Holly myself, i'm glad that someone is handling the manner in a mature fashion.
Playing devils advocate it's mature? Sorry not advocate, I mean "mom"
dang seeing this video makes me feel so safe, honestly this channel is worlds better than any negative, “lets spread hate” vibes Shannon gave off
Honestly anyone can dislike Holly as an artist or as a person but the sheer amount of hate she gets is disproportionate. I've seen people take her out of context and tell her to kill herself. People can not like her but be civil.
That is true. So many people jump on the "hype-train" for the sake of it. Don't get me wrong, she probably deserves to be told that things she does are sometimes wrong or rude, but taking that out of context and searching for anything they can find to tear her down and personally attack her in the way she is being attacked is fucked up.
@@ekoryia A lot of what I see isn't constructive. It's mob mentality that is looking to tear her down. Holly has made plenty of mistakes and she does need to make changes. I'm not saying she's beyond criticism and if people don't like her then that's fine. A lot of people just want to see her burn. She even gets shit on for having self harm scars or talking about her depression, or people bringing up her weight and diet. It's beyond what's appropriate. If someone hates Holly then that's their choice but it's seriously gotten out of hand.
Kitty745Kat True. Its mostly simply hating her for the sake of it by now and „because everybody does“. By this points it just keeps escalating.
Exactly! 100% agree, people just create a mass amount of hate because for some reason they think it makes then look better to get on the hype of drama.
Mothdog she’s trying to change. She just made a video with the title “I’ve been an asshole for 4 years.. it’s time I change” or something like that. Of course sometimes you can’t just forgive and forget but at least she knows what she did and is trying to change. That’s a good thing for her.
What you said at 11:28 to 12:18 really hit home to me. I was having an identity crisis in 2016 and started dating my best friend (a girl). A lot of traumatic shit happened during our relationship, shit that didn't involve her thankfully, and we broke up after about a year when I concluded that I couldn't change my sexuality for her no matter how hard I tried. A year later, I reached out and apologized for leaning on her so heavily and being so emotionally distant, and I tried to briefly explain what was going on in my head and what I was struggling with. I thought it would help her get closure, answering some questions about why and why not. She took it as me attacking her and excusing my actions, which was not my intention at all. I was trying to thank her and give her my perspective, but I ended up getting called abusive, manipulative, and a liar. It took weeks and lots of reassurance that I was none of those things from family and friends to repair my self-esteem.
So hearing you say that "wouldn't you just want her to talk from her heart and talk about how she feels? Isn't that the most sincere form of apology?" was reassuring and I really needed it.
Sneaky Snek I have to put that on a post-it on my wall. You just saved me a lot of anxiety, thanks. :)
The comforting words that Sneaky Snek and Emiliaphilia have said nearly brought me to tears. The fact that Emily FAVORITED my comment pushed me over the edge :,) Thank you all so much. I think I'm going to write down what Emily said in her video as well as Sneaky Snek's comment and put it on my wall.
+Sneaky Snek hey.i like your coment, but can it not be.why som "bad" peopel ar "bad" bigus thet se so match love that they shink they never can reatch it so they giv up and don't trai bigus thet know they wil never reatsh somthing so powerful.so they get mad and whant to make everyons life biter so that everyon feels what they feel."bad" oeopel arent bad.ther just teard of traien so matsh so they gif op.but they stil have som hope in them that one day.they can feel the love that they dizurf.so can it be that we ar ol "bad" peopel. (i'm sorry for my bad engels.and tgis isent a hate coment i was just thinking so i'm very sorry if you see it as a hate coment i don't mean it tgat way) :))
So, you wasted her time for month on end and hurt her feelings, and your only excuse for essentially using her to experiment with your sexuality (without her informed consent) was simply that you had an "identity crisis"??
She has every reason to feel betrayed and angry!
If you unknowingly dated a straight guy for MONTHS, and he excused his cold behaviour as having been in an "identity crisis" and simply wanting to give being gay a go, how the fuck would you feel??
You would feel used! Why? BECAUSE people aren't goddamn guinea pigs. They have feelings and INTEGRITY.
*You didn't respect her enough to tell her what you were going through. You didnt give her a chance to make an informed decision on whether or not to pursue a relationship with your "confused" ass*
You were conducting an experiment with your sexuality without even telling her.
Without her consent.
You're a dick and you should absolutely bad. Being LGBTQ doesn't exempt you from being a shit friend.
@@helmaschine1885
1. She new from the moment that I told her that I had feelings for her that I wasn't sure whether I was bisexual or not because, due to a longterm past relationship, I never experimented with the same sex. We had been best friends for three years at this point - she even knew my ex-boyfriend and was fully aware of the...repressed trauma, that went along with intimacy for me. We both had a lot of baggage and trauma, and she was willing to let me try.
2. She was perfectly supportive of my ideas of possibly taking hormones and getting SRS. Yes, I was questioning both gender and sexuality. It was a symptom of a personality disorder I wouldn't learn that I had until halfway through our relationship - and no, it wasn't Antisocial PD. It was Borderline PD (quiet subtype). I knew that if I really did change my sex, despite her saying she would be okay with it, she wouldn't have been. She got uncomfortable at bathroom stall art of dicks, let alone real ones, and I was legitimately researching phalloplasty and costs.
3. I didn't stay with her for months because I was experimenting. I stayed with her because I wanted so desperately to make it work. I was trying to force myself to /want/ to be sexual with her, but every idea I had never worked. I also kept going back to that past relationship in my head, and that took a toll on how much physical contact I could handle before panic set in.
4. I ended the relationship because I wanted her to find someone who could give her the things that I couldn't. I didn't leave her because I got bored or didn't love her. I did love her. She was my best friend who had been through so much before me, and even though I knew it would be devastating and I wasn't sure if I'd survive it, I did what I thought was best. She deserved more, and now she has a girlfriend and moved in with her a few cities away. She's away from her abusive household and with someone she loves, and that's all I wanted. I wanted her to be happy, and I knew she couldn't truly be happy in our relationship long-term because I proved to myself time and time again that while I idolized her and felt a love with her that bordered on romantic, I couldn't make myself be more intimate than kissing.
5. I also found out that she knew all along that I wasn't bisexual, and she admitted to having solely selfish reasons for entering a relationship with me while knowing that. I appreciate that she let me try, but I wasn't exactly pleased knowing that she let me try to change who I was fundamentally for so long, watching me drown while I balanced losing loved ones to suicide, divorce, and near-fatal car crashes, because she wanted to be physical with me for as long as I'd let her. She had a crush on me long before I had a crush on her, and she was taking full advantage of the same mental instability that she demonizes today. She wanted to straddle my lying form on a hotel bed and kiss me and touch me, and now claims that I was at fault because I just wanted to sleep after a long day of driving and concert-rocking and didn't want to be intimate.
Keep in mind that you don't know the entire situation, Nessie, just like I don't know your entire situation. If I was making a memoir on the relationship or if you were one of the friends or family members I confronted crying and suicidal after the breakup and after reaching out, then I would be asking for your moral guidance. But you don't know the full situation, you don't know her, and you don't know me.
I've read tarot for 30 years. Your art style is perfect for a deck. I'd buy one immediately. Muck love from me in the UK
I didn’t care about the tracing, I just hated her response to D’Angelo’s video.
Duckmallow Can you send me the link? I need to see her response. D’Angelo feels the need to talk about it. And he has evidence.
Ani Dank Ah okay then. She has done a lot of things which is disappointing if I am right?
@@latersgator she was in mania at the time tho, shes been kinda open lately about her mental illness but never used it to defend herself (she said it in a sketch ramble casually) she's bipolar type 1 but with the depressive type (tbh I don't remember much lmao) and when ur in a manic episode u just 'feel right'
I feel like knowing this could explain why she does certain things
I think Holly's main problem is communication and time management. I like Holly but I feel like she often complains about problems that would be solved if she could communicate and manage her time properly, and puts the blame on anything but herself. Holly is clearly talented and has helped many people and given plenty of helpful tips, I think she just needs someone to help her organize her time and teach her how to communicate better with people. I also totally agree that people piled on hate way to fast and without researching the issue. Although the one thing that really bugged me about this was how Holly talked about how it was lazy and yet she has, on a number of occasions, talked about how she doesn't like lazy artists. The art community here on youtube seems to have gotten pretty toxic lately and its just ridiculous, she made a mistake LET IT GO. I'm glad people like you exist in this community, keep up the good work art mom!
This is so true!
I'd say another problem she has us that she doesn't think through what she says. She's put out videos on topics like art block and art challenges that she hasn't properly researched before hand. Also, making huge generalizations doesn't help her either
Candy Ninja666 I totally agree, I think she needs to take a break and rest. It would do her some good.
I don't necessarily think the tracing itself is what made this blow up so much, but more so the fact she is this condescending and has been so loud about artists "being lazy" and "hating laziness" and what not, I've personally never been able to get into her videos, and never been able to sit through one completely because of how condescending she sounds, which as a beginner isn't the most motivating to be hearing. When i watch art here on CZcams I wanna feel encouraged and inspired and sadly Holly has the complete opposite effect on me, making me feel like I'm awful for when I'm having bad moments and am not drawing every single day, like I don't deserve anything etc. I hope this isn't coming across as hateful or anything, English isn't my first language and I'm insecure as fuck expressing my thoughts in my own language already, so yeaaa. I hope all this makes sense.
I totally get it and know exactly what you mean. My least favorite thing is seeing art CZcamsrs roll their eyes at other artists, calling them lazy because they don't upload 10 times a damn week. I like to take my time on my content and for it to come out polished. Some people just work faster than others, I don't know why we have to put so much pressure on each other? It really isn't helping anyone.
My honest and maybe no so nice opinion is this: Certain artists always need to feel like they work harder than x, y, or z artist because they're worried about their competency. They worry that they could be working harder or drawing more so they put that worry unto others. It's toxic and it's what's making us turn against each other.
I think that's Holly projecting a lot? I always got the feeling from her videos that "If you wanna be good, you gotta fucking do the work, even when it feels like work." which is motivating for a lot of people. But I also don't dig on the "flowery artist inspiration" (for lack of a more technical term) method of things so I'm more receptive to that lol
I know right!
The video that made her popular (Mistakes that young artists make i think) i felt was really rude, she was kinda looking down on other artists. I really don't like her personality, this whole situation just made me dislike her more :/
Cottonmouthxx First of all, fellow non-English native here and ur English is quite good :D
Second of all, I'm no beginner artist but I agree with you. I couldn't help but frown at her comments about artists being lazy if there would come a moment or day they haven't drawn anything. You see, the further u draw and become more serious with art, the more u develop this guilt of not being 'productive' just because you wanna spend even just for an hour of doing something else other than drawing. And that is exactly what artists shouldn't feel ashamed of. Yes, one of the common art advice is to spend even just for a few minutes drawing or doodling something every day in order to improve, but artists don't have to go batshit crazy about 'being a failure' or gnawing at their nails stemmed from guilt or shame just because they missed a day (even days) of not drawing something. It's mentally unhealthy, and keeping it together in that aspect is what people need to be careful with since artists are very prone to mentally destroying themselves.
The thing about Holly is that she has a "work harder, not smarter" attitude and a "quantity over quality" business model. Her mindset is to draw like a machine, churning out pages and pages of art every single day, so she does work hard. But she does things in very inefficient or counterproductive ways and doesn't take her studies seriously so her work is plagued with weird anatomy, perspective errors, confusing compositions, typos in the word balloons, etc. She splits her attention across many different projects and rushes to keep up with them all and her work suffers hugely. It seems like she's working herself to death and nobody else is making her do it.
And then she goes on CZcams and criticizes everyone who doesn't do things her way, even if they produce superior work by taking their time and giving themselves a chance to rest every now and then.
Caravaggio used an camera obscura. Warhol copied the Campbell’s can. Tracing, imitating, finding inspiration, as long as you are not stealing and ripping off is completely ok and to criticize is to be ignorant of art and it’s history. There are no rules honestly. Just look at Duchamps Fountain.
Holly Brown deserved better
Oh man, I would LOVE to see you design a whole tarot deck! Those are beautiful!
I strongly disagree with excusing bad behavior with "that's just who they are". It's enabling, to boot. It caused me, personally, to not change myself for the better for years. You're not helping anyone by claiming being shitty is just a personality type - it simply isn't the case.
That being said, I completely agree that plenty of people like to jump on the bandwagon & kick someone while they're down. It's very frustrating, & unfortunate. It's especially good that you're promoting kindness and forgiveness.
Galagya No, I meant more like, I should have maybe done more research into Holly before working with her. It would have taken just a few more videos for me to find out she's quite blunt with her criticisms. I still think I would have worked with her, but maybe I would have deliberately paired her up with myself or another person similar in her demeanor. Since the drawing of names was random though, it had a different outcome. Her partner took it with stride, though!
I'm not saying she should get away with everything bc "she is who she is" I'm just saying that certain aspects of the tracing controversy can be better explained because of her personality. Not trying to excuse it! I'm very clear that she does have some issues to work out. (This vid was NOT in reference to the comments she made about rape or the LGBTQI+ community)
I agree. Holly has actually helped me a lot with my own art, but I had to just stop watching her because I couldn't stand her bashing on different/uncommon art techniques and such that she didn't use in such a unkind way. Negativity is really the last thing we need
Who is we? Are you the offical "art"-youtubers spokesperson? I would love to bring more negativity into this "Community" oh wait its already so filled with anger, jelousy, arrogance and a fuckton of " Wow look at my art im a professional "art"-youtuber im so important and im not able to actually find something really bad what i could crticise" grow up
@@emilyartful you sound like a mother defending her child... It's totally trying to excuse her and if it isn't the case I'm sorry but that's how it sounds from the beginning
Peter Müller Literally no one has even used the word we?
These surfacing videos calling out CZcams artists make the CZcams art community sound so... "get out while you can" ☹😟
I honestly didnt think the tracing thing was a big issue. I think its more her interactions with people. With your collab and the zine she tends to talk about stuff to the public when it should be kept behind closed doors, or communicated to the other person. It happened earlier this year with the flatter for her comic as well.
true. I feel like her tracing, or whatever it might be categorized as would by miles not be so bad or trigger people so much if she were to treat it differently. i mean she wouldnt be the first to do so.
She could openly communicate and tell people whats going on but she acts to not see it, or even acts aggressive herself and this is what keeps the drama going on.
also her reply to the video that guy made. Saying that he was unoriginal and called her a "dirty tracer" This was incredibly unprofessional of her
As someone who isn't an artist or directly harmed by Holly's actions, I just see her as a terribly problematic person. She treats herself as the epitome of correctness and compares things to herself then gets surprised when people think she's being unfair or self-serving. She makes videos about what artists should and shouldn't do, what makes an artist real/what constitutes art as a whole and putting those who work themselves into an early grave on a pedestal that everyone should step aside for, claims art styles and reasons for doing art are inherently bad ("Calarts style" & art as a hobby), she does what's considered "lazy art" (which she says she hates), makes grandiose claims about what's disgraceful to women (gay men despite her comics being feminine gay male-centric). Beyond that, she uses things like rape and suicide in her comics as a quick way to develop characters (which is incredibly toxic), shit-talks other artists, and hurts others by starting projects she can't follow through with partially because she ignored suggestions to let others do things (she's too her-centric to let others do it). And throughout all of this, she defends herself in a very combative way, contradicting herself and claiming changing her context when full sentences were included (the D'Angelo Wallace comment and her discussion of it in her typical "feel bad for me guys" way in her video the next day)
@Crucibelle They're her opinions but she has a real stick up her ass about it being the right opinion and judges others on it while ignoring the rules for herself. It's self-serving BS. I don't really care either, aside from when she actually harms people's lives and/or careers with her grandiose sense of self. That zine was a nightmare, she can't hold her tongue on negativity about others to save her life, and her comics literally promote this self-serving attitude she's developed by turning other people's suffering into character development for her comics. It's fucked, honestly. People can spend money how they choose, sell what they choose, but it's when a person claims to not make light of a damaging subject (which she says every time she makes this mistake) and then does exactly that *for money* that they become a bad person. She chooses these heavy topics because she knows they're heavy and uses that to skip actually developing her characters or stories, which is incredibly toxic. It saves her effort, takes one panel to show, and we know now she's obviously all about cutting corners regardless of consequences since she's kept this going for years.
100% agreed
What can I do if I feel like a problematic person too?
@@inkorporeal204 Honestly, just take a deep look at yourself and recognize the problem areas you have. Think about ways you can change them for the better, hold yourself accountable, and put yourself in others' shoes before making decisions that might affect others. It's not that hard and it's a pretty routine thing once you start doing it. It just takes some work at first to rewire the parts that promote the problematic behavior. We're our worst critics though, so try to look at mistakes and problems from a logical standpoint rather than a negative, self-deprecating one. It's a lot healthier to consider why something is logically problematic and the logical way to improve than why you're "the worst" or a "terrible person" who can't get any better.
@@souleaterevans4589 Thanks for replying so soon! I will treasure this advice and do my best :)
As an artist, especially an artist with a hand injury, sometimes tracing helps to train my hand how to draw certain curves or angles. Ive never, and will never trace something and claim it's my own but there's a reason tracing paper exists. It's to learn. I don't have as much control over my fingers as I used to so I have to figure out ways to do things with my disability. That means making lines I used to do before but figuring out how to do them now. Tracing is okay as long as you don't claim you made the original. It's a learning tool. That's all it should be.
Person who can't draw here - big respect to someone who is learning to draw for effectively the second time.
Just came back to this video.. For some reason it makes me think D'Angelo and the rest that were part of the art community and now have become mainstream are not talking about Shanon because they probably knew she was like this all along.. a bully.
I agree but, isn't D'Angelo on a break too? He might talk about it once he comes back... not entirely sure tho.
D'angelo always gave me bad vibes becausehe just came across as straight up rude sometimes
@@estherlevanony3881 he posted on his CZcams community post that he won’t be talking about this issue because is affecting his mental health. I understand and agree he needs to do what’s best for himself regardless of social media. Nevertheless, I’m disappointed, D’Angelo has a big platform therefore shedding light on issues as important as this shouldn’t be brushed off. After he finds peace with it/had the time to process the events, I think he should come forward too with a video. At the end of the day it’s up to him to make that choice.
@@jadedlanguage same. I don’t like him not one bit
@@anonymouswife007 I didn't see his post on that! Thanks for lettin me know. Hmm, yeah, I'm also disappointed then. ; - ;
Watching you do all the hatching and shading was hypnotising haha....
I had a feeling it might be! I've been pretty shakey lately so I made so many little warm up sheets of lines and hatches.
Well said, Emily. Glad to see someone try to "punch up" an entire community and distill the reality of what it means to work with different kinds of personalities. Any and all relationships force us to look into ourselves, and you've shown that we needn't be afraid of that. Thank you for your positivity. 🤗
Also, I love the fact that your camera is zoomed into the tiniest detail of your illustration. It made me feel close to the piece like the way I get my head almost an inch away from the paper while drawing... as if I wanted to absorb it all. 😬😄
tbh... Holly doesn't only bug me because of her tracings. I don't really care about that at this point, it's overplayed, and it was just a dumb fuck up. What REALLY gets to me, as a gay man, is the way she blatantly sexualizes gay men throughout her work. It seriously makes me uncomfortable to see a straight woman fetishizing gay men the was she does... and unfortunately, I'm aware this is pretty common. She does take it to the extreme, though: including meaningless RAPE scenes in her comics that add essentially NOTHING but a bit of awkwardness to her stories. I lose even more respect for her, though, when she goes on to admit that she drew her gay character feminine so she could fucking change the gender if necessary... What gets to me isn't her shady art career, it's the fact that she's teaching millions of young people that sexualizing gay men and then completely throwing them out at the moment that they don't better your career anymore is acceptable.
emily artful is the toriel of the art community and i'm living for it
hm, I understand what you mean. I think a lot of hate towards Holly over this isn't just because of the tracing though. I think a lot of people feel like she is being a bit hypocritical after finding out that she traces. She is always very quick to criticise other people and generally seems to be very condescending towards beginner artists or other artists. So when people then find out she traces, they just jump on that like crazy. If this happened to someone who was always super nice, I think people would have been more forgiving.
I don't know her and I've only seen a few of her videos, so I don't really feel like I can comment on it much. The above was just the general impression I got from this whole thing + some of her videos that I've seen.
She even replied to the video Emily stated at the start saying he should "Be more original" and stop calling her a "dirty tracer" even though he never stated that to be the case. Which in my eyes seems very hypocritical. But of course she must be very stressed at these times.
but I'm just thinking to myself, she's always been like this. So i'm not sure if the fact she's stressed can be a valid excuse.
I feel like her reply to D’Angelo’s video was the most annoying thing.
+Crucibelle I think she took the drama alert video personally
I had never heard of her before i saw that comment and i immediately disliked her. She clearly is a hypocrite, for one. Two, she admitted to tracing other artists pictures (albeit lied about how exactly she was tracing, making herself sound like she only used reference photos). Three, she doesnt think its wrong to trace others art (or at the very least, she thinks it is such a tiny slip up and its no big deal)
It was oh my god
Honestly my only problem with Holly was her comment on D’angelo’s video. I could see how it could be a mistake (not being 100% transparent about the tracing that is) and I get that she was defensive but D’angelo didn’t only have bad things to say, there was a whole segment at the end of his video dedicated to positive thing about her 🤷🏻♀️
You left out the rap he had at the end
the context of D'Angelo is that he generally only shitposts about people or brings negative attention to them and acts as judge, jury, & executioner
I know nothing about Holly Brown, and I'm not sure why this video was in my feed, but speaking as a professional illustrator and comic artist with almost 20 years of experience in the industry, tracing an image and directly placing it in your art to use as reference is tantamount to a college student cropping out a section of the encyclopedia, pasting it into their thesis paper, and saying it was their reference.
Granted, different artists all use different techniques, but in all of my artwork, I've never placed reference directly within a piece as a placeholder or foundation to establish my composition.
That particular step in the process is limited to either working it out through thumbnails (which shouldn't take any more than 2-3 minutes apiece), or drawing out a rough where everything is rendered in the most basic and simplistic form while omitting detail (working large to small).
I haven't seen the final piece, but judging from that brief glimpse at the work containing the tracing, that Alphonse sticks out like a sore thumb; and to my trained eye, it looks as though she wasn't sure how to render him in that position so she traced him in there and called it a day.
Why she would post it and think she wouldn't be called out on it is baffling, but if it was something she said she's going to learn from, I hope it leads to her changing her approach and technique. Even if you only use shortcuts like tracing or swiping art to use as reference, you're only denying yourself the opportunity to learn, grow, and improve as an artist, and you end up constantly relying on those shortcuts to create everything instead of making something genuine.
I agree. I come from a logo design background and design professors are very particular about plagiarism. One student made vector logos that were near copies of the references she used for a project. This was a big no-no. The professors gave her an ultimatum of either signing a document saying she plagiarized or going in front of the board of members and convince them that she didn’t.
The professional world is unforgiving and strict. There are actual legal and serious consequences
That was interesting to read. I learned a lot. Thank you.
I do appreciate your video, I really do, and I feel like it's coming from a great place, but there are some things that I can't shut up about, and I'd like you to know.
I don't fully know your artistic background, but I've been working in the industry (comics) for a long, LONG time. Most of my friends are professionals, either in the comic field, animations, concept arting, sprite creators; so keep in mind that this is not just a random idea or an opinion, it's the personal experience both mine and of a tons of other professionals I know: "tracing" is kind of a sin in pretty much every field.
The problem with holly's apology video, at least to me, was the interchangeable use of the words "reference" and "trace", causing (a probably unwanted) confusion in who was watching. She also talked about the procedure as "photobashing", and that's totally not what it is.
When you photobash something you don't just add a single image in the background and then trace it, you work on the picture a lot, you tweak it until it's something entirely different. That's acceptable in works with excruciatingly tight deadlines, like in concept art, in which you have to work on 20 full pieces a day to let the commissioner chose which model to define. In comics, in order to trace things, you need to either be really good or really smart so that you can hide discrepancies of style. I've seen people having a contract revoked after people found out the artist was a tracing machine, and some comic artists that trace blatantly are basically on meme pages.
As a comic artist myself, I can assure you that no, you don't have to trace in order to create your story with different backgrounds, especially if you are a learning artist, you need to draw everything from scratch and practice your weak points. Her massive use of "shortcuts" could be justified if she was humble about her comic skills, that way you can maybe think she's still learning and wants to put on the web as many pages with the prettiest backgrounds; instead she chose to constantly claim to be a professional, and to say that her method is the one used by pros. Which is not, and actually I've seen so many people NOT working in the industry parroting her words and saying that tracing is normal and is the same as referencing a picture. I think that's highly damaging, spreading false informations like this. And she's not new to that. I don't want to sound like I'm lighting a torch, but I don't feel like patting her on the head either. True, we're all human, and sure people have the ability to grow up and change, but I feel like the huge "witch hunt" that is spreading right now it's just a result of the seeds she's slowly planted through the years. I mean, she should have learned to think about shitting on artists you collaborate with, and yet she called names everybody involved in her zine, and tried to guilt trip everybody about that book.
Not to talk about the incoherence of the piece with Al and the others she showed the process for. I don't think it's the first time she's even done this, she basically ripped off a picture of two people on a fence for an illustration that was made specifically for a convention, so she basically profited off of a copyrighted image. And to be fair, she's always been pretty open about tracing either 3dmodels or photos, so it's kind of a shock to me that people only found out about it like this.
I have no problems as long as she doesn't try to pass this procedure as common between comic artists, because to that level, that's not the case. Her defining every line in Al's sketch contradicts her "blocking in" the character for comparison. You don't need details, unless you want to trace it directly, because when you go and tweak the size or the positioning you will lose lots of details. Defining the shapes that build the character would have been so much more effective and THEN she could have added details when the composition was correct. So I'm sorry but I feel like she hoped people wouldn't notice, because nobody said a thing in the past.
I am against making tons of videos on the subject (which is Ironic, since I do have a video about her, but it was to clarify some points for the drama 2.0 of..last year? ) especially because then somebody doesn't even care to do their researches and just jumps in for quick clicks. I feel like I'm speaking from knowledge, I've seen all the videos I usually talk about, I don't like expressing opinions on hearsay and I feel like there's tons of things holly did wrong that last period online, and that tracing stuff broke the camel's back.
I feel like when every move you make digs your grave deeper, maybe it's the moment to re think your actions and honestly work on yourself.
I myself would have loved if she kept her own old channel instead of deciding to create a new one, it would have been more transparent and shown more personal growth. Either way, I hope this issue will be a teaching experience for her, maybe even an humbling one, and that she can end up being stronger. Nobody should ever wish harm on another human being, even if they think they're shitty; and I feel like everything Holly needs is a bit of stability. I wish people would comment on the right things instead of how a youtuber looks, but I generally stop giving any credibility when the topic shifts into something so irrelevant and stupid.
By the way, nice "tarots", I always enjoy your vids when they pop up on my list.
Hope I didn't sound too asshole-ish, sometimes I just have a bad tone overall; maybe it's because english is not my first language.
Thank you for taking your time to try and better this community.
THANK YOU! It's driving me nuts how so many people gloss over the tracing thing and believing it's commonplace and acceptable in a professional space. It's obvious a lot of the her viewers must be very young/inexperienced if they think that type of behavior is going to fly in the real world.
It's also frustrating seeing people say that tracing can help you feel more comfortable with drawing something or that you learn from it. Nope, it doesn't. It's just a crutch.
I'm not saying people should attack Holly, but you're right that misinformation shouldn't be allowed to go unchallenged.
Thanks you so much for this
@@genericname8727 Even so, tracing isn't reference. And the work she was tracing didn't belong to her. This whole thing could have been avoided if she didn't trace in the first place. Unless you're tracing your own work or say working for a team and it's part of your job to ink and finalize the sketches someone else drew, then it's not ok.
@Crucibelle Just a question but, if the tracing doesn't make it into the final work, why did you even trace it to begin with?
Yeah. Her liberal use of the word "reference" I think mislead a lot of people, and even if it wasn't her intention to compare tracing with using a reference image, it just makes it more misleading, and her actions more damaging. Also, as an artist (a beginner, at that), I will say that I do trace things sometimes. BUT I only do this if I want to get the hang of a pose before I freehand it, or if I want to study anatomy, and I would never ever use it in an actual artwork or post it online without saying that - honestly I just wouldn't do it at all. It seems fishy to me that she conveniently "forgot" that the traced artwork was there, right in the middle of her art, especially when it stands out a lot because of the difference in lines between the parts of the artwork which weren't traced and that part.
And yeah, maybe I'm wrong, maybe her process is just different, but this is just what I think and my take on it as it relates to my personal experiences.
This is the first defense video I've seen about her.
Thank you for it, some people will witchunt, some will just want views, some think artists are perfect, but we are all human, S H E is human, we can all make mistakes.
Emily you are so kind, and my god I love you-
Just put everyone in a time out and give them cookies, please... Cookies calm people down.
(Oh mah gawd, I GOT A HEART!! Can I get a cookie now?)
Fio the thing I’ll give you three cookies!!! :D
🍪🍪🍪
@@stargalaxy9671 oOo THANK YOU! Wait... How do I eat my screen again? Fuck-
Here hon🍪🍪
The same mistake? More than a few times? No. Just... No.
@@arielhoward2915 True, people can make mistakes, but after making the mistake several times, getting backlash for said mistakes, and having numerous people making long-ass videos to call you out on this shit, you would think something would stick. Especially when you work in a field and go to a school that treats these mistakes as the worst thing you can do. Hell, one the first things (if not the first thing) people will teach you as a beginner artist is not to trace, and if literal children can understand it so should an adult.
The art community shouldn’t use facade of “positivity” to disregard criticism. Especially to someone like Holly who has time and time before said she doesn’t support forced positivity & created this “blunt & honest” persona to make harsh critique & remarks about artists & their art, yet for some reason it can’t be thrown back at her.
honestly don’t understand how you claim critics need to stop using bad energy but defend the bad energy Holly’s entire persona/personality brings to the table.
the tracing controversy was disappointing at best, but I’m rather unamused by her remark about how women who don’t fight back when they are forced & manipulated by their partners to do sexual acts aren’t being raped & they just like being abused. Idk I think her defending her comment & not apologizing for it was a bigger issue than the tracing but that’s just me ig 🤷♀️.
“A moderately sized art CZcamsr” dates this video so hard. 😂
What does the verb 'dates' mean in this context? 😅
@@estherlevanony3881 means that it shows how old the video is and how much things have changed!!
@@mercuriuses Ohh, thanks! I get it now.
I feel like her saying that she photoshops references together just came off as a hastily thrown together excuse. She could have easily pasted the image of Al into her sketch to see how he would look with her sketch of Ed, but she traced over every line. Like, so much effort went into it when it was "supposed" to be to check for size.
Oh yeah, that's a good point. I guess we just can't be 100% sure what she was planning there, you know? But I get what you're saying
@@MW-dg7gl doubt
@@virtualarmageddon6232 there is a guy who does either dc or marvel comics and his shit is traced (Greg Land). In fact many marvel comic artists have been found tracing and unlike holly they leave it as their final product. Also the dragon ball super manga was found tracing marvel. It's really not as uncommon as you think
@@Hibibee Just because people do it does not make it right in any way shape or form. I mean, I do think it's getting blown a little out of proportion - but I put this down to the fact that Holly has done this kind of shit before, and people are just kinda getting tired of her excuses.
@@tinyshell6216 I didn't say it was right, I was proving the point that it happens all the time in art industries. The person previous said they "doubt" that happens and I was saying it does. No where did I say if it was good or bad.
Woah CZcams notifications actually worked 😂
I know right.
I wish I could say the same fren ;_;
"We all need to be a little bit kinder to each other" Great idea, in principle.
Let's see if Holly Brown herself follows that advice.
Agreed Holly needs to slow her role
This hits different 😔
i've always had a problem with holly brown, but i don't necessarily care about the tracing controversy. i agree the apology could have been worded better, but i understand where she was coming from. my problem with holly is how gatekeep-y she can come off and i suppose that's sort of her being a comic artist and being in an industry that's about efficiency and marketability, but i disagree with a lot of her videos and points as I find she comes off as very negative and i'm not saying artists need to be fluffy positive all the time, but i just feel quite discouraged when watching her content
I guess my own head is more discouraging than her, because she is encouraging to me. :P
Lilith Yu she drew a 12 page rape scene in her book before
@@coffeebeans9632 and?
@@coffeebeans9632 sorry to tell you that that's fantasy. I guess you hate classic artists too, because that's been done since the dawn of time man.
Alexander Rembiszewski but now that’s illegal 😱 rape isn’t fictional
Wow! I am genuinely happy that someone spoke out on this. Holly seams so relatable sensitive and I hated seeing people attack her like that.
I'll just say this and keep it simple. I make comics. I'm illustrating one currently to sell. Now, I as an artist understand tracing over a drawing for composition, but I do it roughly so the style, facial features of the stock image, etc arent going to be an influence to my final product. So I trace roughly, then I sketch over that trace and then delete the trace layer. What she did was a careful thin line trace so it would look 100% exactly like the reference image. To do that would take much longer than quickly(albeit carefully still so you dont lose the pose or composition in its entirety) sketching over the reference then making a more refined sketch
Her excuse of 'i did it only for composition' for that wip is just a load of bullshit. I can't say that for anything else shes drawn until I take the time to look into it a little more deeply, but what shes doing for that wip is what I used to do as a young artist. That being is: I don't know how to draw this by myself so I'm going to carefully trace this and hope no one notices.
I'm not against tracing at all, its what helped me learn how to draw...but I am against tracing and then posting it. Wip or not. Holly doesnt see anything wrong with what she did, so its not a surprise why she isn't sounding genuine(and also a quick note, theres one moment about her not taking criticism which rings pretty loud with me and got on my nerves because of how detrimental it is for her young viewers. She was told while going to SCHOOL for ART that she should work on her anatomy. I'm no expert at anatomy and I will gladly admit that flaw, but she brushes it off as 'psh I'm drawing anime for MY project. It doesnt matter why should I change how I draw if this is MY project'(not a direct quote, just paraphrasing from memory. I'll edit if that isn't correct) )
Okay so not short or simple, but TLDR; Holly doesn't care and her tracing excuse for saving time is bullshit
This just showed up on my feed again because I cleared my viewing history.
This is the video that made me start paying attention to your channel and looking for updates.
Thank you for existing.
I'm not a fan of her. I was subscribed to her for like a month but het abbrasive negative attitude gets old quick and her art is not enough to my taste to put up with it but from what I hear here it does sound like a simple mistake. some just post quickly cause they want to share and don't think to explain every detail so the nit pickers won't attack.
brikhouse22 agreed
Exactly
It seems like Holly is the kind of person that rubs a lot of people wrong. Loud people. I imagine there are a lot of hate watchers to keep tabs on her and look for an opening to trash her. It’s a toxic attitude to have in any community, but it feels worse coming from artists. And with how open she is about her mental health, it’s extra shitty and weird. It’s like there is blood in the water. It’s gross and it’s a bummer. I’m also “such a mom” and want everyone to play nice. I dunno. This just isn’t a big enough fuck up to make so much noise about. The outrage seems misplaced. Meh, I dunno. Great video! Thanks for it!
She should honestly just stop doing provocative stuff. She looks down on people who aren't as "professional" as her (even though her art isn't as good as she makes it out to be). Many artists have mental health issues and I don't see them doing the stuff Holly does. No one looks for an opening to trash her, they criticize when she does wrong because she seems to periodically do shit wrong and then go "My depression can't take it". She's what's wrong with her art and her business, no one else.
She's an..."easy" target. She reacts to the criticism more than a lot of other youtubers or artists. She has said she *reads* the "Hate Holly Brown" forums. She's open about her mental health problems
which
while I really love her for that...can't be good for her
@@haleyspence Because she loves drama and acts like she doesn't care what people think.
@@bunnylove8989 Which is all totally a front. She's been really open about her mental health issues, and as someone who shares similar symptoms I really relate to that "idgaf what nobody thinks...but secretly reading every mean thing everybody says about me" head space. And I think in this case, her apology video wasn't just her reacting to criticism, but to the straight up hate she was receiving. I think if she had just received criticism it wouldn't have affected her so much, but a lot of people were just taking it too far.
@@bunnylove8989 That's fair to an extent, the platform doesn't really require experience to share advice so I'm not willing to hold her potential lack of experience against her.
But the other parts I don't have a contestation to, I'm relatively new to the arts communities, so I haven't seen enough of her content and personality to see the whole picture a lot of people have and to defend it much more than I have. From what I've seen, she's sure of herself in a way that you have to be (or appear to be) in a creative and self-driven path. I don't think she's a shitty person, just really opinionated and thoughtless.
i appreciate your understandingness of blunt people. people always think im such a bitch but really i just hate beating around the bush it feels like a waste of time
5:10 Gotta disagree with you there. She shit talks anything she sees against her. Just recently she organized (ha, 'organized' . . .) a zine, chose to involve A LOT of artists considering it was her first time doing it, did not keep into proper contact with them on updates, then threw all the artists under the bus by making herself the victim after they expressed their frustrations about her lack of communication citing that she wasn't expecting the zine to sell good anyway because they were all new artists so they shouldn't be so pushy, she was doing everything by hand so they should give her a break (but, I mean, that was her decision not theirs so . . .) then just tried to erase the entire thing by not advertising it. The entire project was a waste of time for everyone. Those few artists that wanted to buy copies of the zine from her to sell on their own got copies that were rough, and I mean ROUGH, with pages upside down, uneven covers, and all sorts of problems.
Of course, this being Holly, she bitched about the entire process on her channel, making her entire viewer-base think it was the artists participating that were the problem and not her wack work ethic.
This 'witch hunt' or 'bandwagon' seems fit when, based on what I've read and seen on the chick after having her videos recommended to me for so long, is the result of her behavior finally catching up with her. It takes only one person to find the courage to stand up to a bully for everyone else to follow suit. I get not wanting to see someone get pushed to the edge over internet drama, but this is literally what happens when you're an asshole. . . don't throw what you can't take. That's life. You fuck up and people take you down a notch and you learn how to be better on the way up after seeing how little people are willing to put up with your negativity. I'm so sick of seeing everyone baby (grown ass adults, no less) the worst people on CZcams just because 'it's too mean! they're only human'. Like, yeah? We're all human here, and majority of us aren't assholes like they are. Majority of us don't cause so much drama /multiple times/- the fact that people like Holly do means they probably need a reality check. Hopefully she learns to be better from this instead of taking it as 'haters' or people overreacting because it sure as hell wasn't just the tracing that set people off, from what I've seen. It was just the catalyst. No amount of "it was out of context!" claims will refute the proof staring people in the face that she willingly puts out in the form of her videos and tweets.
I watched holly for a very short while after she had just gotten big on CZcams. At first her personality being blunt seemed ok but I noticed she had a habit of arguing with her audience in her vlogs that was just too much negativity for me so I unfollowed. I have no idea what controversy are happening now but I just have to say if you use negativity to grow your audience your going to encourage and attract certain followers who are also going to feed back the negativity they receive? I think this is where holly went wrong. It was bond to happen 🤷♀️ maybe if she put more sincerity and kindness into the videos she might get some back as well? That’s just a guess anyway good luck to her.
I think the tracing scandal is the straw that broke the camel's back for Holly. I honestly never really liked her: her condescending attitude towards her peers, on things she isn't interested in, LGBT culture and rape rubbed me off in the wrong way. I knew eventually her ways will backfire on her badly especially in the art field where getting a job can come down to who you know and who you pissed off.
With all that said, I think she's talented. The only thing holding her back is HERSELF and most of her actions have been what she said and how she said it. The collab you had with Holly is an example of it: by being condescending instead of truthful with understanding to her fellow artist she lost an opportunity to work with others whether she wanted to or not.
I unfortunately cannot give her the benefit of the doubt due to years of her dishing out toxicity just to cry excuses when the same vigor returns back to her. I agree that the tracing was blown out of proportion and if she after the fact posted that the trace was a temporary still for the finished project, the entire thing would've blown over before controversy would've began along with the finished artwork but instead she threw more kindle into the flame by making an apology video about it and her again condescending comment to D'angelo.
I wish her the best still. Her whole issues with her college was painful to watch and not good for her mental health.
Thank you for making this video. I really appreciate your grace and maturity you have displayed. I’ve just come from Holly’s channel after finding her this week. Massive kudos to you and you’ve got the utmost respect from me. Sincerely Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this with the level of respect it requires. I’m glad you’re the mom of the community, moms are the best with the greatest amount of wisdom and love, warm hugs! 👍✌️🙏❤️💕
i absolutely love your tattoo-esque illustration style, its so gorgeous, everything you make looks like a perfect sticker or poster or tattoo!
I honestly feel like, having watched Hollys videos for years, that while she certainly does have some hate followers and people who criticize her no matter what, she is definitely a magnet for that sort of attitude. The environment she fosters on her channel isn't one that neccesarily keeps those types of people away.
Personally i dont like holly, she acts all special and cool cause shes ‘honest’ and ‘blunt’ but she just comes off as rude and immature. But this whole tracing thing was blown waaaay outta proportion to the point where its just kinda funny.
I really feel you on this comment! I feel she is very rude and condescending, then excuses it by claiming to be "honest and blunt", while you can be those things without being rude / hurtful / belittling. I really hope a positive will come out of this in the sense that she'll realise that, and work on herself a little.
Your art is gorgeous, it's so nice to see someone with a natural precision with lines and symmetry. Not to mention how pleasing it was to watch you line both pieces, they're lovely!
I actually believe that the tracing part was just the last straw to snap you know? Since Holly is overvocal with her opinions and most of her fanbase lashes at people who try to correct her in a quite aggresive way, people just saw the chance to bite at her with a reason without others being able to deny the simple facts. In this case "She traced and didn't admit it". But behind this clear mistake there's a lot of resentment from people feeling aggravated by the not so few denigrating comments she has made towards several groups throught the years.
I appreciate this video because I have seen a lot of toxicity towards holly lately and you discussed a perspective that many people most likely didn’t think about or consider. It makes sense that someone who has to plan multiple scenes would use other art just as a composition and then produce something that is their own. Thank you for trying to keep the art community at peace with each other, I love this community and it’s sad to see someone getting attacked because they made a simple error that they have a plan to fix for the future.
This is too messy for me to be honest, but the reason I don't like Holly is for her views on non-consensual sex and that weird rapey comic she did of her characters and tried to sell it in a con publicly open for anyone. What she wrote in the comic was never consensual, which I wouldn't be bothered by if she didn't try to justify it as "it was ok because I'm bigger than you and I could have stopped you if I wanted, ignoring that I was drugged at the beginning". I am sorry but I absolutely cannot like any person who thinks this stuff is fine and danddy
have you never read a hentai manga in your life? Rape and incest are common fantasies amongst people, it doesn't mean she actually supports ppl being raped irl. That's why it's called a FANTASY.
@@QuickstepLuna people also have fantasies about raping children and murdering their friends and family . Just cause it's a fantasy doesn't mean it's healthy , I don't understand how you can try to justify this garbage
@@genericname8727 well it doesn't matter what she advertised , it matters what's actually there
@@seeyoutomorrow3320 i meant her other comic "Seize", sorry I didn't specify because I didn't remember the name and had to search for it. She wrote one of her characters drugging and kidnapping the other "bigger" character, tie him up and have sex with him with no consent whatsoever. In the end, the bigger guy says that he could have "overpowered" the other character if he wanted to, but he didn't, so it was okay yay!!!
I think it was on her Patreon or shop, I don't really remember (and don't want to tbh)
but her thoughts of rape weren't even about that, they were dragged out of context by another artist whose name I had forgot.
My name is Holly and... Holly brown is a... different Holly. Most Holly's are very nice, but Brown is a bit different. I'm just going to say that
Yes, we are🙂
I mean I get the joke but there are probably thousands of girls named Holly Brown out there who are lovely people
like hollyleaf from the warriors cats series
Wow I love your inking style, and I love how these two pieces came out. 😍 Also 17 minutes of Emily talking? Yes, please!
The thing is, she might have said she used them as 'placeholders' but tracing an image as complex as that Alphonse was obviously more effort than a placeholder would be worth??? Why put that much effort for a simple placeholder?
Like honestly maybe she just got carried away? Drawing is fun, she probably just kept on going for the fun of it. Plus it doesn't look like she spent that long on it, 5 minutes max
idk I could probably trace that in 1 or 2 minutes
Drawing is fun, but tracing isn't drawing, her "placeholder" excuse was just that, an excuse because she got caught tracing. Just pasting the drawing there was plenty if she only wanted to check the composition, and we agree it was pasted there for around 5 minutes. She meticulously traced someone elses art, that's never okay. Her excuse is lame and makes no sense.
@@s18uwu6 I just want to say about tracing: It's something a lot of artists do in secret when they're learning new shapes and are struggling. It's a way to help your muscle memory when you're struggling with something you don't often draw. For example, if she hasn't drawn anything robotic looking like Alphonse or even a car, it might help while coming up with the composition to trace him to get a feel for the sorts of shapes and proportions that he has. I have used tracing myself loads of times, I even still do it when I'm doing studies and just can't seem to get my lines the way I want. Once you trace something and then try to freehand it, it goes so much smoother and I can vouch for that.Tracing goes very quickly when there are already defined lines, so it probably took her as long as it would have to just block in the shape. But if the shape was too complex for her and the proportions weren't looking right I can see why she'd opt to trace. Tracing is a tool and should only be used as one for practice and training muscle memory on complex items. There is a time and a place to do it and there is no harm done as long as it isn't in the final work. Posting the sketch with the traced object in it was a mistake that she acknowledged, even portrait artists sometimes trace off of photos in their studies.
TheUglyBookling Drawing is fun but tracing isn’t, dunno just my experience, tried tracing before, never again.
I agree with the fact that people have been way to harsh towards Holly on this tracing thing. I think a lot of that comes from the “cancelled” trend thing happening where people just jump on the bandwagon to hate instead of double checking facts. Another thing is I can understand why Holly has been pretty defensive with criticism lately. For as long as I’ve known about Holly, there may be a few people genuinely offering her criticism but there is a way greater number of people hiding their hate in fake criticism so at this point she’s firing back at everyone, which is completely understandable.
Edit; also your drawings were gorgeous! The gold and silver paint looked amazing~
SSS Bri
It's not understandable to go out of your way to be just as toxic as a bunch of people who are toxic for no reason??? Especially when people who look up to you are watching you have fits. It's incredibly indecent in fact. It's okay to go "not cool dude" but to stoop as low as them and act bratty and petty is not the right way to handle those kinds of people. She deserves no praise for behaving in such a way.
Cupid exe I’m not praising her behavior. I’m saying it’s understandable that she has become ALOT more defensive in her actions especially when people are picking certain things to push their hate narrative. She has done a lot of controversial things in the past and it’s only recently that I’ve seen so many people, especially in the art community, talk about her. Not to mention I’m sure there are plenty of ‘mean/bad people’ in the community but I’ve only been seeing her name. All I’m saying is that it’s human nature to put your guard up when people are targeting you, especially if it starts to affect your way of life (income, mental health, etc.). Also sometimes it’s hard to always take the high road. It becomes extremely draining.
@Ocean Blue I remember seeing something like that too and thinking that her response was completely unnecessary. If people at that moment wanted to criticize her for that, I get that, but that's not what's happening now. So many people are spreading a lot of misinformation on Holly (like recently I heard an audio from Holly saying something that sounds pretty shitty when you listen to just the clip but when you hear the whole stream it makes a lot more sense) and people who don't know her are sending her hate and saying terrible things about her and that's not what the art community is about. At this point she's just become the target for people to hate on openly.
Wow I had no idea DAngelo was an art CZcamsr. I thought he only did deep dives and drama videos. Wow I’m kinda blown away 👍✌️🙏❤️
Same
Yep I was a subscriber of his original channel when he just did art, I actually remember when he made that video, his art is really good!
*watching you draw is satisfying-*
I love hearing your opinions on these sort of topics. You sound very educated and fair. I’m loving the video so far!
I agree! She sounded very unprofessional.
Flash back marry flash back merry flash back marry
Its hard to be professional in a community thats flat out attacking you in all honesty... Plus with hollys personality, it might not be as easy to keep a professional tongue
honestly livin for your heart to heart and sketchbook story time videos. sometimes i even listen to the audio first and then watch the whole thing again because both parts are so rich and full that i don’t want to miss out on a single drop of the tea you spill.
i rarely do this, most videos i wish i could play music over, or i get bored and just stop mid video.
great job, great quality. your voice isn’t annoying, your humor is amazing, your personality is great and you have meaningful things to say.
you really are Art Mom.
You popped up on my recommend, and I am soo happy you did. I think your honest and empathetic nature is refreshing and watching you create such beautiful pieces is calming and inspiring.
I agree with you. A lot of audience is typically out to get someone who they don't understand. In terms of being misunderstood I experienced it quite a lot. People find me rude, unnerving or sometimes stuck up. Simply because I don't give out the typical response. Its nice to know someone is willing to fight for that despite you not clicking with that youtuber. :)
You've made some great points about the general issue of things like that happening. But unfortunately, I don't think much of it applies to Holly. I don't agree that its just people 'looking for fault' in her constantly. There is a difference between someone just having a personality type of being honest versus what she's done. It's just that her faults seem to keep being excused, I'm not too sure why. I personally just choose not to watch her content as a result of her behavior.It's true that we all make mistakes and such. To put it bluntly, she seems to make herself a victim in cases of where she clearly is not. The adult thing to do to is own up to it. It's something we all have to do. I don't agree with sending her hate or bullying her either. Just clear cut explanations like D'angelo did should be taken and used to improve as a person as well as an artist.
Those cheekbones on the sun scare me, but the noodle fox in the background make me fell safe again.
I love that this is, overall, a "let's uplift one another so we can all have opportunities and succeed, not smash one another down to win some arbitrary competition" message. Even when you're discussing your "bad" experience before, you do it with a lot of empathy. We need more love and understanding in this world and I'm glad you're doing your part to spread it.
Also, thanks for the apple pie, mom!
You are incredible with art and im sorry this happens in the art community
Honesty I do think that people were ragging on her a little hard for this specific issue, I think some much more prevalent issues are her seemingly fetishistic attitudes towards gay relationships and rape, a lot of it is pretty nasty stuff.
The first time I watched this video I must confess I didn’t really listen to the subject...I mean I listened to your words because I love your voice and your mannerisms but I was so blown away by the paintings .....THEY ARE STUNNING!!! Like wow 🎨💜
i love how professional and neutral emily can be when picking sides in an argument. it’s really refreshing to hear it from a bystander’s point of view.
I don't mind Holly, and I don't have a true issue with her, but I dislike that she's a huge hypocrite. I took her art advice and actually made improvements but I haven't seen her art improve in a while. She bashed against lazy artists and low quality works but produces it herself. She's just not really a great professional figure
Is channels like yours that are giving me stenght to start creating An instagram page and a CZcams channel. I'm in a 1 month drawing everyday to have something decent to post. I just feel comfortable to share my art, i went to fine arts and did graphic art and then master to comics that i didn't finish, is been one year after i stopped going to university and i was in a dark place, could not draw much anymore, moods and family stuff made me really depressed and i thought i could not do It, that i didn't have the quality yet to share It. Now idc anymore, i stopped thinking about what about this and about that and just start drawing what i want and like again. In the accademy i got really down at some point, mostly because some teachers messed up my mind a bit. Sometimes you gotta understand who is a decent teacher in university because some are bad and they can f up your mental health. I wish all the good luck you deserve ❤
Your art is amazing and remind me of classic sailor type tattoos or tarot cards, your commentary is very sincere and easy to follow, and the how you find a way to record so close to your piece impresses and amazes me. Please continue to create anything and everything that makes you happy as long as it makes you happy, Art Mom.
I admire how maturely you stated your opinion, and also I love this illustration. I just found your channel, and you are so entertaining, and you’re an amazing artist. Keep doing great work!
What actually bothered me was that she claimed that she traced it to figure out the composition when she traced it like, perfectly, detail by detail. She could have just...literally cut the pic and pasted it in the drawing to figure it out, make a sketch AND THEN upload it.
Shiny Moon she only needs a grey blob
Pretty much
But she herself said that it was traced, then "forgot" that she had traced it and uploaded it without saying the drawing wasn't hers. She made a mistake (we all do) when she uploaded a traced picture, that's a thing no
proffesional" artist should do in my opinion.
The way she chooses to figure out her composition does not need to be the same way you do it, people have different processes. With respect, it Seems like your grasping at straws
@@MyCrimsonMischief No, it doesn't need to be the same way as i do it, However I still think there is no need to trace over the whole thing just to figure out composition just so she uploads the picture and instantly forgets she traced it. In her apology video she explained how she took pictures and pasted them on the picture to get the perspective right and stuff, and that's fine!
I personally think that doing that with this drawing was the best option.
Her major mistake here was posting it without saying anything about it being traced though.
I do agree with some of your points in this video, like I do have to say whenever somebody mentions tracing even if it's just a rumor at it's not even confirmed people do go bat shit and use it as a way to attack people. And to an extent I do think people need to calm down, and only freak out about it when it's somebody literally stealing somebody's artwork and selling it. But a lot of times it's not even worth the argument or the fight about it.The one thing that I really hate though is when people use her being edgy as a defense for bad behavior. There is a huge difference between being edgy and kind of just being an asshole. I personally like dark humor and being cynical, which often times I think ends up putting people off of my own personality.
But I also am self-aware enough to know when to stop and when making certain jokes is not appropriate. You can be as edgy and as dark as you want, but it does mean that when a joke backfires or people end up not liking you, you do you kind of have to own up for why that is.
I just feel like to, that she constantly makes these videos where she's like OK I'm gonna be a better person and I'm gonna try and not be as mean, or insert problematic thing here. But then she pretty much never does. I feel like she acts like she's going to change and be a better person but then when the time comes to actually deliver on that I feel like she just kind of goes back to her old ways. I think she has definitely improved since her earlier videos were she was definitely a lot worse, but for majority of the stuff that she said she was going to try and work on? I just don't think that's happened.
And one big thing that I do feel like I have to mention, I don't think that if it was anybody but her people would've freaked out as much, and I do think people are coming down on her a lot harder than they would on some other person. BUT I do believe that the reason for this is not necessarily unjustified. I think that she has caused a lot of problems in the art community for a while (and not to mention some of the issues with her fetishizing the gay community which I know other people have talked about in the comments and I'm just not gonna touch it because other people have done a better job than I would!) whether it's a serious thing like this or just being an extremely negative force in it. And while I do think that some of the excess of criticism is completely unnecessary like again people calling her out for being overweight and stuff I think that's pretty stupid like can we just focus on the actual problem?
But I do think a lot of this out rage is actually just built-up from all the other stupid shit that she has done or said.
If it was one of the people for example who has been an extremely positive force in the art community especially on CZcams, and had been encouraging and supportive for the majority of their career, I think people would be willing to be a lot more forgiving. But if you have branded yourself as being a horrible person and even to an extent crapping on people That didn't do anything, The forgiveness well is going to be a lot more shallow. And in this case she appears to be empty.
Now at the end of the day I don't even really care about the situation, because I don't follow her I haven't followed her for years, and I kind of don't even really have a horse in this race LOL like you said if you don't like somebody just don't follow them there's no reason to be an asshole about it. And I feel like that's how I have behaved with this. this is actually my first time even commenting on it because I saw your tweet and I was waiting for your video because I was curious about your opinion ha ha Ha! So I'm not a fan or even a person who is strongly and enemy of hers I guess? Plainly and simply I just don't really like her personality or some of the things that she's done. (Also again I don't really appreciate the fetishizing of gay men) I occasionally watch her videos because there are times when I feel like she makes a good point about something or has something that is useful. But there are definitely some things that you do deserve some genuine criticism.
I truely hope that she is able to improve and become a better person from this experience, and that some of the unnecessary stupid hate comments will subside.
Mostly my whole point with this is just that like attracts like. If negativity is the home that you have built, only negativity can live inside of it.
I just want to say that watching the lineart process of this was so calming I definitely completely zoned out of what was being said or the topic itself. These are so pretty and so neat it's wild!
Holly to me is very negative and yes condescending. I feel like artist express themselves threw art because verbally is difficult. I had to unsubscribe because she left me feeling down most of the time. She isn't very positive. And one incident where she spoke about the creator of inktober and told people they should do what they want because she prefers digital but the creator intended for it to be traditional. I felt she didnt have the right to shit on the man's event.
Exact reason I unsubbed as well.
I have to agree sometimes just because Holly prefers something show as puts down other artist because of it it’s like so annoying because those artist have their own styles and Preferences but Holly is like stubborn and she has like this definite form of art in her mind and it’s like anyone who does some thing that she’s not doing is basically garbage to her
i dont think disagreeing w use of medium is "shitting on someone" and lots of artists do digital for inktober so that's a moot point altogether
Watching her paint with the gold metallic was sooooo satisfying 😍
well holly aside.. I LOVE THE ILLUSTRATION YOU MADE- the composition and the lines and the *sHINY*
✨very nice✨
Ugh, its so satisfying to see you use the metallic paints. I love them so much.
I just found your channel and have been really enjoying your storytimes :) I love how open minded you are and your personality in your art/chats :)
I’m sure she has her reasons but if it was just for positioning why didn’t she just put in the photo rather than taking the time to trace it
I do layout set ups like Holly claims. Its like my version of a storyboard. I'll gather references pictures put them together in a photoshop collage and then sight draw or "trace" practice a section of a piece that I may never have drawn before so I can have some muscle memory on how to draw it later on the final piece. Because of people yelling about oh you traced that cause its too good....No i practiced and the actual traced version is on a different paper. because of these things I refuse to show people my pieces anymore unless they are close friends and family. Its also blown my confidence as an artist. The thing that relaxed me and was fun when I combined disjointed things into a fun piece has become something I hate. Its really sad.
I just found your channel and just wanted to say I love your style and how honest and sincere you sound when you’re narrating. Much love from 🇺🇸
These pieces are beautifully done. The linework is so great. They remind me of tarot cards. Very inspiring! 🌛
This is why I love you. You’re so mature (but can also be very funny) and you always defend what’s right. In this case you, taking in account the negative encounters you’ve had with holly brown, you could’ve attacked her but you didn’t or even just stay quiet. Much respect ❤️
"Can I just say I'm such a mom" ok but Emily I was over here having an anxiety attack. Sobbing. Just trying to calm down and after two of your videos, watching you art and listening to you speak I feel better. I cant draw right now I'm incredibly sad but I love to watch people draw when i feel like this. I found your channel a few days ago and like I said I feel so much better right now ❤
I hope you have a good summer, man. Anxiety sucks.
@@BlackDogsAndLadybugs thank you! ❤❤❤
I hope your summer went well, and that things are going okay for you. Anxiety's terrible, and I hope you're doing okay, you deserve it
Hope you’re doing well.
@@amirahp1690 I posted this over a year ago and for you to say that is so kind. I am. Thank you. I hope you are doing well too❤❤❤🥺
Watching you line your work is sooo relaxing i love it ❤
i'm here for the holly drama but also watching you paint the glitter gold was really soothing tbh.