Open baffle speakers
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- čas přidán 7. 06. 2024
- The typical speaker has a box that supports the woofer. With an open baffle design, there's no box anymore.
Have you gotten your copy of the Audiophile's Guide to setup? Make magic with your system using this guide and CD.
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I couldn't stop seeing the happy face on the right
Dude looks really focused!
Now I can’t either!
Where's Paul Merton when you need him?
Reminded me of something out of Pee Wee's Playhouse.
Actually that’s the first thing i noticed
GR Research is big on open baffles and has side shapes on the cabinets to fix cancellation problems. They also have a good series on CZcams that explains it all. Like Maggies and Martin Logans or any dipole room placement is the key.
Yeah that joker its an old Scandinavian design been around since the early 90s
I play with magnepan older flagships Tympani I speakers. I have also lots of Arnie nudells. Including the irs v smaller cousin the rs1b ..
Maggies leap away from it on many areas
Yes, if you know what your doing they can sound great, Danny does do it well.
The speakers from gr research are for the money one the best ive heared. Im ordering the xstatics for the bedroom when the drivers are back in stock
His open Baffle design seies his great. I built a pair out of scrap wood to test out the sound. Even a junky set, with a few caps and sub supported, sounded great. Wedge base, long wing / short wing configutation. A cutout for tweeter.
Awesome. Tested pretty flat with my analyzer.
Since Paul's company is getting ready to sell NON-OPEN baffle speakers, take his opinion with a grain of salt. Spatial Audio makes some AMAZING speakers!
I took my vintage Dahlquist DQ10's -- updated the upper-frequency drivers to be completely dipole with planar speakers (two planar tweeters . . . two 10" planar midranges) and a ribbon tweeter and my woofers are totally enclosed as are the subwoofers. The system has been totally converted to an ACTIVE system -- no passive crossover . . . and the accuracy, timbre, imaging, detail, low distortion is phenomenal -- you can ask those who have now compared my speakers to those costing up into the stratosphere!
We had a pair of DQ10s when I was a kid. They were amazing sounding.
Those Sony ES SS-M9 Speakers used to retail for 16k when they came out in the 90's. It's amazing what Sony and Pioneer have made. They have the market covered from mostly not good to superb when they feel like it. Some of the Sony ES and Pioneer Elite pieces back in the day used to be the cats meow.🐈
Go with an open baffle that has double woofers in each speaker (double 15's or double 18's) and place them 3ft from the back wall and you will fall in love with open baffle bass
I've heard many say that 3ft is the minimum for OB, and that you should really be looking at something closer to 6-7 feet into the room.
@@hoth2112 It depends on the speakers and the room. I've got a pair of 3-way OB I built last year. The bass gets pretty overwhelming at anything over 3 or 4 feet.
Just get a esl or magnepan ... Be done with it far superior over woofers.
@@MichelLinschoten Not for Bass
No comparison - Magnepan is totally different to OB.
That damn thing with the Curious George face is freaking me out...😱
On a budget here. Four channel amp. I have one set of speakers facing me and the other set turned towards the front if the room. A homemade defuser in the middle. The sets of speakers are out if phase. It sounds wonderful.
Thank you Paul, for all of your shared knowledge.
Probably the best-selling American open baffle speakers are Spatial Audio out of Utah . They sell factory-direct with a return policy , which very seldom gets used . Mine are awesome !
I run a pair of M3 Triode Master with M700's. Killer speakers.
Which model do you have, Joseph?
Wrong ever heard of magnepan dude lol
@@MichelLinschoten Wrong lol
Danny Richie of GR Research is all about open baffle speaker kits. Including subs. Check them out.
Paul should visit Danny’s place to hear the ultimate open baffle speakers.
GR Research has a youtube channel and they have done a whole series on open baffles
World's first GRANITE Open Baffle Speakers from MACO Acoustic are REVELATORY ! This changes everything !
Yes, boys and girls, Sony actually made some great high-end speakers a long time ago. Those Sony ES SS-M9 speakers look sharp!
I can't believe those are Sony's, they are gorgeous. When did Sony make those ?
@@blairwilliams136 IIRC the Sony speakers in the video are from around 1995-1997.
Some were made by Bowers and Wilkins in the UK
The mid range drivers in my main loudspeakers are open baffle DIY designs. Had them back in the mid 1990s and since then, I've never found anything that sounded better for under 15,000 $.
Personal approach:
The speaker are the transducers that are in charge of converting the analog signal from an amplifier, the speakers must perform at it’s best!! Most of the audio amplifiers can handle 20-20Khz, knowing this, your speakers must be the ones you need to put more attention, money wise, there’s no limit!! You must fall in love with your equipment!! Amateur, professional or audiophile!! One more thing, your age counts in the equation, older we get, we loose hearing capabilities, that’s why we buy “better equipment” trying to compensate that!! In my humble opinion!! 😎
I don't know what the machine is in the far right lower part of the frame is but it looks awfully happy.
That would be an old tape machine
I miss going to high end audio stores. I love listening to all the different types of speakers and hone theater setups. Now pretty all that is left is magnolia in Best Buy.
I love the sound of an open back guitar cabinet. Big 4x12 cabinets have a woolly sound that is great for high powered amps, but generally has a lot of bass. This bassy sound is great if you’re going for a Santana or Eric Johnson type lead tone, but not so much for day to day rhythm playing.
That reel-to-reel on the right of screen looks really happy
"there not usually that expensive" a quick look on the website he recommended, 10-20 grand!
well thats change for some audiophiles. some spend more than that in 2 o 4 cables haha.
Perhaps Spatial is a cheaper open buffle
@@endrizo someone can only be an audiophile if they're rich?
@@donny303 no. didnt mean that..ok you are right i edited my comment..added "some". thanks.
yep that nuts
After years of a lot listening, when you can do a well set up the sound is the most amazing thing, the immerse sensation in the music like no box, try spacial audio ob speakers, the bad thing is the narrow sweet spot
hi Paul
firstly i do love and respect your thoughts, ideas, and philosophy about Audio equipment. i find you very analytical. that's why i listen to you and take you seriously... but as you said: "it may not fit your taste" @1:15 . some like it and some don't. personally i really like the Open Baffle Speakers' sound. we all have different ears and tastes in speakers along with other audio stuff. having said that. i LOVE the QUALIO -IQ semi open baffle that has the Midrange and Tweeter outside the Box. thank you. great episode.
Sounds like a good idea, I've never experienced it, I hope some day I have the chance.
Ps audio speakers are kind of like Tesla roof tiles, supposedly coming soon but never arriving
Im designing a set of open baffle speakers... hopefully the sound ok
Get a sub and most will be ok. High Q drivers are also high on the list.
nice PS Audio New Speaker
commercial
Have many of you seen the speaker configuration in old console radios and HiFis? Those were often boxes with no back! They generally didn't sound very good, but not always. Some sound better than they look like they would, but I don't think any of them can compare to the mid-grade appliance store speakers of the late 70s to the present. Now even the low end includes things like the Pioneer SP-FS52 and Polk T50 which sound better than anything RCA, Zenith or Magnavox ever offered for home use.
Spoken like somebody preparing to sell box speakers lol. Common Paul! If your seriously trying to sell the idea that open baffles well paired with decent subs (which you are on the record as being a fan of) will not destroy 99% of the closed box speakers on the planet then you really are doing a disservice to your viewers. A 4000$ pair of spatial audio speakers will destroy any box speaker at double the price hands down not even debatable. For 1000$ you can get a set of Lii audio 15 inch full range drivers, build your own baffles out of plywood in a day in your back yard, pair them to a cheap subwoofer and also destroy any box speaker that costs less than 10,000$. I'd love to see a set of your new speakers up against a set of spatial audio speakers of equal value......I think you would run very far indeed from that challenge!
I am very intrigued by them, can I ask what music you listen too, are they good tonality vise with violin, acoustic instruments and low level listening? Or do they need higher volume to sound good ?
Thanks!
@@gryphongryph I'm a musician and my tastes are for everything I can get my hands on (western classical, eastern classical, traditional world music, jazz, metal, punk, old country, Avant-garde, funk.... You name a style I've probably got some of it in my LP collection). No problem for low level listening, infact they shine in that regard. They project a massive soundstage even at low volumes. These spatiales are my 14th pair of speakers in my life (tried horns, ribbons, traditional boxes, point source designs ect ect). The spatial audio speakers are now 5 years old and I've never once considered getting rid of them. My only disclaimer is that they really benefit from the addition of a REL sub. REL specifically. The spatials are ultra fast, sound simply jumps out of them and dynamics are breathtaking so mating them with a very fast sub is pure heaven. Open baffles do everything amazingly well except really pressurizing the room.....for acoustic music a sub is not necessary but if you really want that kick in the guts certain music provides (metal/rock, funk, some modern jazz ect) a small fast sub and they are imposable to beat without spending many thousands more. I listen to a very wide range of music, 70% of the time my sub is off but 30% of the time it really fills out the sound when the specific music calls for it. Hope that helps. I mated mine with a small REL T7I......not a very big sub and not very costly but that really takes things to an end game level and provides a large degree of flexibility.
@@billbones1000 thanks for taking the time to reply to me, I use Graham Audio LS 5/9 speakers (bbc) love the way they make voices sound, especially male voices as Van Morrison, as his voice very often sounds too thin on other speakers, I don’t know if you have heard any bbc speakers designs? But they excel in Jazz and small classical settings, but I probably will buy Rel sub for them, have also a bigger pair of Amphion Xenon and they sound a bit bigger that my 5/9, but the 5/9 do voices better.
Next time I go traveling I have to find a way to hear a pair of open baffle speakers and see if it would be something for me.
@@gryphongryph yup I've owned a set of British monitor style speakers, they do indeed excel with voices. Open baffles are very different..... BBC speakers are generally very midrange focused, fairly hard to drive and not terribly dynamic. Open baffles are super dynamic, huge sound stage and full range sounding (no extra focus on any particular part of the bandwidth). If you really like mids focused small enclosure speakers then open baffles may not be for you......they are much closer to a large set of horn speakers than they are to traditional box speakers.
My short list is Wilson, GR Research and Spatial, how would you compare Spatial to Wilson.
I guess my phase linear carver andromeda speakers are open baffle, never thought much about it. Sub woofer is in a ported separate cabinet. Uses eq box with spatial image control. Big sound stage, voices sound great, soaks up all the power my phase liner 400 can produce.
I'm curious about home trial returns, when people return the gear, will it go back on sale as 'new'?
I would love to hear a well setup open baffle speaker. Maybe one day
Main advantage of OB is good efficiency due to bigger speaker and phase coherence (only when not supported by crossovers and separate "bands" speakers). Sounds opposite to what Paul says but he mentioned only about shifts between front and back affecting loudness of lowest tones. . .
Gotta love that smiling tape recorder.
Mr Paul hello, your opinion about Focal speaker ( from France), thank you
Hey Paul, great to hear you address this question, though I think you might want to do a bit more research on the physics of open baffle design to better answer the inquiry.
Yes, the energy from the rear of the speaker is out of phase, but here's the rub: as long as that information arrives to the listener at least 3ms out of sync from the direct, front firing information (typically with the speakers at least 3 feet from the wall), our brains have evolved to ignore that information and distinguish it from the direct sound. The cancellations are a non issue, as our brains ignore it. The result is a far more transparent soundstage and quicker response times of the drivers because they are not dealing with a pressurized cabinet and standing back waves. This is ideal for mids and tweeters. It is difficult, however, to achieve deep bass in an open baffle design. One way to do it is through the use of an active servo amp that can tell the bass drivers to play as deep as desired, resulting in enviable bass speed and articulation via drivers that don't load the room with bass nodes and yet they can play as low as you want. I recommend reading the findings published by Linkwitz or check out some informational videos by GR Research. There is much more that is understood now about open baffle than we knew even a few years ago.
Eh, they're out of phase, BUT they're also pointing BACKWARDS, which means they will reflect off the wall behind them, and become IN PHASE. Just as the sound from a guitar would (for example).
How do these work? I'm completely baffled.
Are the world’s best speakers, ie., the Bose 901Vs open baffle speakers?
I want that Sony ss-m9 speaker.
A lot of the audio stores here in New York City are now appointment only places with no walk in store front. Check out Sound by Singer, Audio Arts, Rhapsody Music Systems, Stereo Exchange, Wes Bender Studios, Noho Sound, etc. Store fronts you may have missed include In Living Stereo, Bright Audio, Innovative Audio, Park Avenue Audio, and a few more I'm sure I'm forgetting. Sadly, Lyric Hi-fi recently closed its doors after more than 65 years in business.
Paul, are you working on Sprout speakers?
Magnepan’s are also open baffle dipole speakers, many of them using the same driver technology as Paul’s beloved Infinities. When properly set up, they sound way more “open” than most box speakers. Maggie’s have a lot of surface area to try to boost their poor bass response, but their less expensive models really benefit from adding a sub(s).
They all do really I got 4 pairs including a flagship
How about speakers that are mounted in a cabinet without a back?
Paul should make a video on his favourite strains lol
Paul and steve should have a smoke off
In the 300Hz range in a small room, an open baffle design has better attack and decay than a box speaker. That is my humble opinion of course. Remember that trapped energy inside a sealed box is going to bounce around and find it's way out through the drivers cone, now delayed by time and phase. For sub-woofers, then sealed of course.
Looks like a Mac Davis CD and plaque on the wall?
Paul, I live in an isolated community in the mountains of BC, Canada. The nearest town is a 2.5 hrs drive. living in Canada I thought we had a free trade agreement with the US and electronics that are made there were duty free; so why can’t you sell directly to me?
what is the Dylan thing on the wall ?
If you have two guys playing guitar sound is very different depending where you are in the room. I think you get more realistic sound with open baffle.
Those Sonys are no joke ! Guy i buy used audio fron has a set hooked up to a Sansui g33000 and dam it rocks out ! He also uses vintage Marantz anyways he pressurized his large living room with those speakers !
You clearly have not hear the Emerald Physics 4.3's or 2.3's. They are phase coherent and one of the best sounding speakers out there, regardless of price. They also do not suffer from any kind of cabinet resonance and are very efficient. You should have a listen before you make claims about cancellation or anything else.....not very professional IMO.
Generalizations here, you cannot "absorb" the back wave in a box. If the box is sealed, you are pressurizing or depressurizing the air inside the box, causing dynamic compression as the woofer cone fights against the pressure changes in both directions. The only way to "fix" this is to supply massive amounts of power. A ported speaker has a hole to relieve the pressure changes, but that hole causes a new sound. Try panting through your nose or mouth to hear how that sounds. A speaker mounted in free air will merely move back and forth without moving much air. The baffle, which can be just a flat plywood board, requires the air to move further to get to the other side of the speaker cone. Example: Try fanning yourself with one finger. Then use your whole hand. Then use a hand held fan. What you are doing is increasing the size of the baffle, making it more difficult for the air to wrap around to the back side of your fanning device. The baffle does not have to extend to the side, it can go towards the back, essentially removing the rear wall of the speaker box. In my case I have two 15" woofers mounted in the waveguide part of an Altec 210 theater cabinet. It's light, delicate, fast, open to the back, goes down to 30hz, and I power it with two watts.
The only time you should ever hear port chuff is when your port is too small to achieve xmax. Otherwise it is almost transparent. Problem is most speaker manufacturers don't use a big enough port because it requires them to increase the length of the port that might mean a cabinet that doesn't fit with the look they are going for.
As for your 2 x 15" how many dB roll off do you have at 30hz? You need roughly 4 times as many drivers to achieve the same as a box, or you compensate by building a U H, or W frame, but then you don't have completely uncoloured sound, the frame plays a part in the sound characteristic. It's a trade spend a lot more money or have a slight sound disadvantage using a frame, but it will never sound as bad as a box.
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering I have them loaded in the horns from Altec 210 cabinets. I also have them on a low pass filter so that one driver runs full range below my primary crossover frequency and the other kicks in at around 60hz. I don't have an accurate way to measure frequency response, I use an iPhone app and 30hz is where I can still hear a reasonable amount of bass. Needless to say, this speaker is not bass shy.
@@johnlebeau5471 never seen them before, they are a big horn. That's bound to give it some oomph.
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering I use just the horn part of the cabinet. The full cabinet is too large to get through my front door. The horn does eliminate the wave cancellation that comes from a smaller baffle board, essentially this is a large baffle board without the diffraction problems. The speakers are indeed open to the rear, and some energy goes backward. The open back frees the drivers from any acoustic loading, making the drivers effectively lighter, at least to my untrained mind. There is no visible cone motion at any frequency.The whole point of this exercise is to be able to use 2 watt single ended triode amplifiers.
@@johnlebeau5471 So really the horn is more like a curved baffle. I can see that working.
Excuse me, what’s the monitor on the top?
Whats the speaker on top of the Sony?
Whats that speaker up on the top right. The big box witht he woofer and seems like a soft dome tweet above.
That are Hafler TRM8 studio monitors.
One thing ' We have good bass' in this case is actually 'we have more bass' Bass from open baffle is subjectively cleaner and tighter from many that listen to it. So more is not better. Better is better :)
I would never leave a speaker sitting like that here in earthquake territory! Also...... I love that smiley faced reel-to-reel machine on the right.
I had Apogee Scintillas ..back in the day.
What I’d like from a speaker ( as I’ve gotten older and hopefully wiser) ..these days.
Wide soundstage, good inner detail, bass down to 15HZ , a smooth top end ( not old school Klipsch shouty ) and possibly Bi-Wirable .. around $ 3k Canadian.
That’s we’re I’m at now
Paul, thanks for you’ve done for the audiophile community.
15hz 😂 ya on what -10db 😆
The best bass I have ever heard from a hifi speaker in a real living room (30 sqm) is delivered by my Pure Audio Project Trio 15 open baffle speakers with my Unison Research Simply Italy SET tube amplifier.
Nice. Which driver are you using? And have you heard or compared any of the other options?
I had wanted those speakers , although the price was too dear . I am happy with my open baffle Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S that I chose instead . Work well for movies and music . I set them up very close to my chair as nearfield monitors in a 6 foot equilateral triangle . Very open and dimensional sound stage .
@@gnostalgick9353 The drivers are Tang Band W8-1772 and LaVoce LBASS15-15. The speakers are not original PAP but it's a DIY kit called Power Trio 1772 from German company Omnes Audio. I built it in the same d'Appolito configuration like PAP Trio 15 so for better knowledge I wrote PAP in the OP. I never have heard any other drivers but for me hearing all music genres and sitting 8 feet away from the speakers in my small to medium music room in the basement it seems to be a very good configuration. However I had some time to get the right placement for the speakers. In terms of bass quality Steve Guttenberg also was overwhelmed by the PAP Trio 15.
Open baffle speakers try the Nola speaker line.
I went open baffle on my DIY and never looked back
What's the yellow 'smiley-face' thing on the right side of the screen?
It's a reel-to-reel tape recorder.
What are those floorstanding speakers?
Not sure of the model # but they are Sony ( SS line )
I build open FR driver and boxed woofer speakers. I EQ my 5" drivers by hacking into them (I make cutouts and slits on the cone) to increase highs and simulating a free edge open cone (and by using a filter).😅 The driver is ran open, on the top of the box and the woofer is in the box (on the bottom panel) firing down onto the floor! With the right gap on the floor, the floor acts as a bass horñ. And it's a vague sound source (bass is not directly heard). And the bass vent hole is up the top, just under the a 5" open driver. The speaker boxes are made from up-side-down, tall flower pots (with woodwork as well). They are braced inside and well joined with wood&plastic compasite construction. They resemble the high end (round style) B&O floor standing speakers (that look like up-side-down flower pots). That is what inspired me! 😅 The best speakers I heard so far (hands down)... there are 3 things that make them stick out: Ultra clean and defined meds, great reverb, and a holographic soundstage off the scale! The sound seems to come from everywhere except the speakers! 😅
Open baffle are fantastic when done right.
Some use compression drivers in a well damped room are very nice.You need a sub woofer or even better two.Big open sound with open baffle speakers they are very very nice. Paul doesn't like them.
Cancelation of sound in OB mids and woofers is a feature , NOT a bug . This allows (given a correct dipole distance for each driver and its allocated freq range ) to achieve a perfect figurte of 8 dispersion and thus create constant directivity (especially in bas freqs)which is 90% of what makes a speaker sound good .
That reel to reel tape player looks likes a happy bear face
I thought those were Wilson speakers until you said they were Sonys. I've never seen them before.
Same, does anyone know the model
@@zackpetrovic3029 Sony ES SS-M9ED
Owned a pair of M9ED’s. Fantastic - wish I wouldn’t have sold them
Nice ReVox :-)
What just flew over my head?😁
high Qes speakers may sound fine without boxes,which peak in low freq.
It's kind of amusing that Paul doesn't like Open Baffle speakers yet the speakers in the PS Audio's reference room are Infinity IRS V's;
Which are an Open Baffle design for their tweeters and mid-ranges (that Paul previously described, in his Virtual Tour, as dipoles).
The low-range cancellation problem area, Paul described above, being resolved by sealed, servo-controlled woofers (sub-woofers really).
Paul likes what he pushes and is very biased. So I generally listen to him when I want a good laugh.PS audio stuff is something I will listen to if I want a good migraine hell he was against tubes up until very recently so that tells you all you need to know about his narrow mind and tin like hearing skills lol. Paul loves Steely State sound and monkey coffin speakers hey to each their own but for me personally, i moved on from that when I was 12 years old lol.
my best stuff is old sansui sp1500 and sp2500
In a term 'above the woofer', above how many Hz are we talking about?
Hi. From what I've gathered it can be anywhere near 200 Hz. 500 Hz is well into midrange category.
a very delicate critical.zone...it can be really muddy and dirty.
So, aren't Maggies and electrostats technically open baffle too?
General yes, but there are some monopole electrostatics, eg: janszenaudio.com/ Enjoy!
They are open baffle and line source ...his irs is not line source
Underwood HiFis open baffle speakers are currently out of production
Dalquist DQ-10’s had several open baffle drivers in the Quad looking speaker design.
The sealer woofer was its weak point because it was a poor driver.
when I first time made my open baffle it was some kind of revolution. if we take this case in a vacuum, definitely, cancelation really exists, but if you put the speaker the way the flor becomes the 4th wall (without a slit or space under it), the situation changes, waves, in this case, are spreading along the ground. efficiency, in this case, is about 25-30% but it's quite enough. things get poor if you raise speakers, cancelation begins to occur from all directions. the main open baffle trick is to change and entrap the directional pattern of concelation by U-frame or H-frame, these are still open baffle, but better ones
That will give you more SPL, but it will also colour the sound. The only way to do OB bass properly is to add more large drivers. Any driver in free space will roll off the frquency response much earlier, by adding wings or a U, H, W frame all you are doing in partially enclosing the driver to get loading off of it. Much like facing a sub woofer into a corner, you get gain in SPL but it also muddies the sound. It is a trade off but a frame is not the best way, it is the cheap alternative to buying several more drivers.
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering those days my goal was to make the very most cheapest set that can give in some reasons things that usually awaited from the set that is ten times more expensive the price entirely with amps and dacs happened to be around 120$. so i'ts worked perfectly. If to speak about load, just look at the horn load subs, horns are gigantic, so this tiny 40 sm. walls of enclosure are not the big deal. mudding the sound- in sovjet tradition distortions under 200hz have even never been measured, and this is the range of the given sub. anyway, before it became U-frame it was true-open and I can't tell any difference existed, except efficiency increasing. and if it were those I wanted to have for that sake it was risky to become my divorseware :) which is unacceptable. especially taking into account that some weeks before that I just had finished ribbon headphones
@@user-or7kr3tx9m interesting that you didn't hear a difference between the U-frame and not having one.
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering as I said before, the load is decreasingly low. in classic U-frame the walls often placed closely to the driver unit, in my case they have some spacing
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering gosh why there is no detached word for this speaker-driver-unit in english? :))
Those Sony speaker at first glance looks a lot like Wilson Watt Puppies except the top part is not a separate cabinet ,I wonder if they sound as good. Also the original Carver Amazing speakers were open baffle design for the woofers with a ribbon tweeter.
Like Paul i am also not a fan of open baffle spks. For me i feel that they sound kinnda disembodied. Vocals sound like ghosts singing in front of you. But i can see that they appeal to some people who like this trait.
"Vocals sound like ghosts singing in front of you. " - are you referring to the _phantom_ image? That is often thought of as one of the goals of two channel audio. Good systems will present (given a stereo recording properly engineered) musicians floating between the speakers. If that is new to you then you've been missing out.
@@TheDanEdwards i do know what is phantom image. The thing i don’t like is a lack of meat or solidity behind those phantom image that some open baffle spks bring to the table
This guy needs to go visit Danny Richie down at GR Research.
Aks Clayton Shaw from Spatial Audio Lap about OB
Did Paul just drop a piano on Walter? I’m a customer of Walters and they don’t do bad sounding stuff. They just don’t:)
It's Underwood HiFi.
Talk to Danny Richie.
I think cardioid is the best way to go and give you the same effect as open baffle and Box speakers in one and can be placed against the wall like Dutch and Dutch c8
Good speaker stores would always let you take home their demo units to try at home.
Thank you! The voice of logic in a world full of high-end baloney.
Paul you have NEVER heard a great open baffle design. They BLOW away boxed design ...by a mile with tactile FAST base, that one CANNOT achieve with other solutions and problems with boomy and hanging bass.
Master of open baffle is linkwitz you can buy his kit and his DPS active crossover form madisound
Love the open baffle. Working on best rear support.
czcams.com/video/Lon-rpZJsmE/video.html
Walnut Slab 2'' Thick with natural bark sides
18" 3 way
15" Woofer
Speakers by LII Audio
Run solo or jointly with FORTE II Klipsch on a Carver TFC 45 or for the full house experience they run in addition to dual mono block McIntosh 402's driving two Martin Logan Summits, three subs and two LS 360 McIntosh and two LS 320 McIntosh speakers.
OB can be far better than box speakers and vice versa. In general, it's easier to design a good OB, so it is widely used by DIY. I did, and I seldom hear commercial speakers that I would trade even though the commercial speakers might be 10's of thousands more expensive.
A problem with OB is they must be well out from the front wall (behind the speaker) I have mine 5 feet out. The bass in my case is a large open backed box with 18" drivers so they take a lot of room and have zero WAF. (to me they are beautiful) So in a dedicated room they can be wonderful, but not for a room sharing duties with spouses and guests. The sonic advantage is the elimination of the congested and compressed box sound that is nearly universal in commercial products. With triodes, OB produces effortless open natural sound with air and separation around sound sources. And an amazing 3D sound stage 6 feet behind the speakers.
The one speaker I would trade is a really good mid/hi horn.
I suspect my favorite OB system would be the modified IRS system in PS Audio demo room. You have large OB down to 200 Hz. Then you have 6kW per channel on closed box woofers. They require a dedicated room and have even less WAF than my OB. But I look forward to one day hearing your favorite OB system. Yes dirty little secret. Paul's favorite speaker is OB.
upgrade the mic please paul. love the vids! :D
Not sure what you find wrong with the microphone. Sounds good to me. Am I missing something?
@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio it just sounds very crackly at times. might just have it in the wrong position or something.
@@jbt6121 Ahhh, I know what that is. It's a wireless microphone and in the big studio where I am there's some sort of RF interference. I keep forgetting that. My apologies.
Hey Paul, love your channel! I have to push back on what you are saying here about open baffle speakers. I think you are dead wrong about them because you don’t really understand their value and what they are designed to do really well. Just like you were wrong about putting a tube in your amps (and luckily you were smart enough to hire a guy who knew better), you are wrong about open baffle. Closed box speakers were originally designed for large auditoriums like movie theaters or in a stadium environment. That’s where closed baffle/box speakers are designed to function well. However 99% of your customers live in homes with smaller sized listening rooms. What the vast majority of speaker designers today fail to do is take room acoustics into consideration when designing a speaker. No one listens to speakers in an anechoic chamber or in a large theater or stadium - we listen in our living rooms. That’s where open baffle shines. Like you say, open baffle is a dipole design. It is specifically designed to send an out of phase bass behind the speaker and that is actually what you want to happen in a small room! Why? Because you get cancellation which keeps room boom from happening which is what you get with a box speaker. On top of that the side facing waves also cancel out. That means the vast majority of sound is then directed at the listener instead of at the room (which is ideal and what you want to happen!). Furthermore, open baffle bass is GOD TIER level bass...it beats anything by a mile..like not even close. With open baffle bass you get the fastest, cleanest bass response without any of the added boominess that you typically get with a box subwoofer or speaker. Also if you listen you can clearly hear the BOX RESONATE in all box speakers! If your goal is to be transported through space and time to stand in the room where the recording was made, then a box speaker and cabinet resonance is your worst enemy, as nothing will destroy that illusion faster than a vibrating cabinet! And all speaker cabinets DO RESONATE. That’s why open baffle rules. You don’t have a box to resonate and destroy that illusion. If I were you I would go back to the drawing board and hire a really great open baffle speaker designer like Clayton Shaw of Spatial Audio or Dannie Richie of Gr-research.com to design your new speakers as they make speakers for under $10,000 that can compete with any speaker on the market at any price point. I hope you are smart enough to do what you did with your amps and tubes with your speakers! :) Watch this interview with Clayton Shaw of Spatial Audio. czcams.com/video/lYaYCgwmHi8/video.html
Room boom is not cancelled out by the OB front to rear driver cancellation, it is radically reduced because it is not pressurising the room. That is what causes the walls to shake. OB allows to air to move around room, without as much room interaction, and therefore is less prone to vibrating the walls and turning them into speakers.
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering Yes! It is reduced but not eliminated completely. However, the reduction is enough where you can account for the difference more easily with room treatment where as with a traditional boxed speaker it is much much worse, and a huge problem.
@@BrentLeVasseur and that is why I love my OB setup, you can crank it and while it still has strong enough bass, it isn't trying to rattle stuff off shelves. I agree with your finding that OB is much better suited to homes where we do 99% of our listening.
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering You can hear my system here… czcams.com/video/XjHvmzbRuAQ/video.html
Being that most tweeters and mids are "backed" speakers with no sound coming out the backs it pretty much comes down to the woofers. A lot of (subs) speakers have a bass ports which sounds like the same thing.... Hummmmm..........
I don't understand how can open baffles produce bass without a box
Cancellation is not complete nor is it a brick wall. The effective width of the baffle determines the frequency at which significant cancellation begins and then the roll off is gradual. The design of the bass drivers is also a big factor. Drivers with Qts greater than about 0.8 will exhibit a rising response approaching fs when put on an infinite baffle. This rising response compensates for some of the roll off on the open Baffle. Room gain is also a factor.
So what you do is design the baffle and drivers to compliment each other and you can get authoritative bass down to 30 or 40 Hz. I had some size constraints on the OBs I made so used 4" Full Range and a 10" helper woofer. since it starts to roll off about 50 or 60 Hz I use a sub to supplement.
I am working on plans for a larger system which should in theory be quite usable to 30 Hz in a reasonably sized room meaning I only need one 8va of sub assistance.
Some people get concerned about the high Q drivers but they are a different animal when not in an enclosed box. The flabby sound associated with such drivers is largely a matter of interaction with the cabinet.
Paul, have you gone to stuffing socks in the front of your jeans or are you really trying to restrain 8 plus inches of natural peter?
Open baffle bass drivers have never "moved me "...not a fan.
Check out PS Audio's Reference Music Room. The one with Infinity IRS V speakers.
Paul did a Virtual Tour not that many videos ago where, at the end, he 'shows them off'.
He does not say it but they are Open Baffle speakers. The Bass, however, is not. The woofers are servo-controlled units.
My point is that "you use the right tech for the right app". Like, you wouldn't use servo-control for the tweeters.
With my Open Baffles, I also run a ported sub woofer (can't afford servo-control). Not unusual.
@@bossybill7437 I agree completely and I'm aware of the IRS driver configuration, peace
Open Baffle the latest and greatest audio fad makes me laugh a new fad comes out every 10 years or so. No speaker is perfect and this is the best that is the best is all bullshit the best is what you like all designs are compromises. Having said that open baffle tech is improving and there are models out there that do sound very good indeed. I like my Soundlab A1Px driven by joule Electra OTL monos with a REL Britannia one sub.
Wow, sorry but did you ever leave a whole lot of stuff unaddressed, or ignored in order to make your point.
Out of phase, you entirely ignore full range speakers, entirely ignore cross-over...
cancellation, totally ignore the room effect on an OB compared to an enclosed speaker.
I could go on and on but honestly you could have just said I do not like OB and here is my bias reasoning why.
Cheers,
a.
For the same money I can make open baffles sound better than boxes...
Very biased video that portrays OB in a bad light because Paul has boxed speakers to sell. I have been listening to open baffle for the last 10 years and would have trouble going back to a box with all its limitations. All speaker designs have pro and cons, zero exceptions. Paul chose to focus on some of the challenges of OB instead of focusing on how his boxed speakers will never compete with OB in so many other ways. Also not all baffles are flat like Paul said. OB can have curved or folded sides, and the sides play a big part of controlling the cancellation that happen at lower frequencies. Also Paul is forgetting that many boxed speakers have rear ports, so it is projecting sound to the rear in those designs.
They image better. Pauls explanation is of course nonsense because he wants to sell his rubbish. Maggies, Quads, Triangles are three variants of open baffle. Ribbon,electrostatic and woofer. I actually think they are superior. No colour no box. Boxes introduce noise no matter how dense you make it because it's captured vibration.. It has nowhere to go except stay within the box. Which in turn messes with the cones.. He left out so much which really is ridiculous.. Pauls channel has become like a US shopping channel for cars.. Buy here because there is nothing better.. There's always better and there's always better for you 🙂