BEST of MARGIN CALL #3 - First Meeting
Vložit
- čas přidán 1. 11. 2019
- [with subtitles in English, French and Spanish]
"Sam, how long under normal operations would it take your people to clear that from our books?"
"What? All of it?"
This is a preliminary meeting of a fictional investment firm during 2008 Mortgage Crisis when they realize the situation that is about to unfold with their Mortgage Securitization business.
- Margin Call is a 2011 American independent drama film written and directed by J. C. Chandor.
The principal story takes place over a 24-hour period at a large Wall Street investment bank during the initial stages of the financial crisis of 2007-08. In focus are the actions taken by a group of employees during the subsequent financial collapse.
The ensemble cast features Kevin Spacey, Paul Bettany, Jeremy Irons, Zachary Quinto, Penn Badgley, Simon Baker, Demi Moore, and Stanley Tucci.
- this post is for educational purposes only.
Copyright remains entirely with Very US Network, Lionsgate and eOne UGC.
- Olivier BOSSARD
Email: bossard@hec.fr
LinkedIn: / olivierbossard
Twitter: @olivier_bossard ( / olivier_bossard )
Facebook: Olivier Bossard ( profile.php?...)
HEC: www.hec.edu/Faculty-Research/...
"So, you're a rocket scientist?"
"I was."
I love that.
Ofcourse he was he is spock 🤣
The “what fuck is his name” part gets me all the time lol
Seth was more than forgettable and even less important to learn for Jared.
Simon Baker is so great in this scene. The discontent is virtually dripping from his face when he learns that Eric Dale is fired and the two kids are alone in risk department.
Yes..."You did WHAT???"
"...really? Foreclosures happening left and right, we're trading mortgages at ridiculous leverage, and our risk department is 2 fucking KIDS?!" all cut down to "...really?" plus the look he gives her heading Eric got fired. Was perfect.
@@Crooky0 his character immediately realized she did it to try and just sweep the issue under the rug and save herself and her job. Biggest market collapse in 70 years and Sarah thought firing Dale would just *poof* make it go away-at least for her-when she knew it was coming. Very selfish. It wasn’t just their firm doing this type of trading, but her hubris meant that they couldn’t be ahead of it.
I love how actor of Will also at same time rubs it in...
He is quite the sentimentalist in this scene.
“You were a rocket scientist”
“USS Enterprise, under Captain James Tiberius Kirk”
Lol
🤣🤣🤣 hahaha
HAAA LOL
Correction, I WAS THE CAPTAIN OF THE ENTERPRISE. I WAS.
I love how Eric Dale's phone is a constant symbol of the firm's recklessness and callousness throughout the movie.
That and Demi Moore's entire character. Has no answers, knew about the problem a year ago, fired Eric Dale for bringing attention to the problem, and attempting to make it seem like Sullivan had just now identified the problem rather than building on Dale's work.
@@channell11 Also, she tries to get Sullivan to incriminate himself or otherwise take full credit so he can be an easier scapegoat, but as his degree implies, and Cohen summing it up with "so you're a rocket scientist", he genuinely knows what he's doing and is not immoral as to take credit for the work mostly done by this former boss, whom he greatly admired. Cohen, though a ruthless mini-Tuld executive, seems to be relatively fair, and is smart, intelligent and doesn't need to use lots of words.
Cohen knows exactly what he’s doing. He asks two questions of Sam to see how quickly the MSBs can be sold off and then excuses himself - that’s where he calls Tuld. My favorite scene with Cohen though is before they enter the meeting with Tuld, he advises everyone to be honest, don’t sugar coat anything and no one’s smart enough to play games with this, “not even the rocket scientist.”
I mean, it was all just analogous of the '08 crash. Eric Dale's entire firing as the representation of how little the investment banks and firms cared about the actual risk of these products, especially when he was reporting to an HR Manager that blew her way into the C-Suite because the CRMO is even more meaningless of a position than HR Manager and is essentially a stroke-me position.
"Will, Peter, and uh...what the f**k is his name.?"
Jared The Legend.
haha i loved that part
That was too real man ! Too many have suffered this treatment xD
@@sitrakamatthieu So true. When they do something good for the company, their bosses receive the credit. When something bad happens, they get thrown under the bus. Notice how they grilled Peter. They aren't checking to see if he did his due diligence, they are looking for a way to discredit his work.
@@denysolleik9896 damn......
Jared earns his reputation as prodigy in this scene.
He's a couple steps ahead of everyone else and asks about options the firm has, options that neither Sam nor Sarah thought were on the table.
@@jon8004 "Simon isn’t a prodigy; he’s simply ruthless" - well, one could argue that the lack of scruples is part of being a prodigy in this trade : )
i agree with your points overall
The level of acting in this room is bigger than the financial crisis
Unfortunately not
Not the current one..
yea.. have any of these actors actually ever worked in finance?
@@raczyk They don't need to. They're good enough that they make you think they have and THAT is the most impressive part of this entire film, in my opinion.
@@raczyk you can tell they didn't - especially the chap who says "V-A-R". No one spells out the initialis like that.
Once they found out he was Spock, everyone knew his calculatiions was right
“ I am not just any rocket scientist…“
Vulcan math. Never wrong.
@@Thor-Orion for some reason that scene in IV where he calculates time travel by memory popped into my mind, and he wasn't wrong, even after being dead for several weeks/months
@@TPRM1 problem
Jared's ability to digest the situation quickly and get right to the likely solution is impressive.
It’s not real.
Well of course he could digest it quickly and come up with the solution. As he told Two-Face Robertson, "We have talked about this." They knew exactly what they were doing, they knew what kind of risk there was doing it, and they knew the likely result. They just didn't factor everything into the equation (the whole, "These numbers don't add up anymore"), and have suddenly found their asses flapping in the wind.
@@soonerborn9073it doesn’t need to be, there are plenty of people who are like this lol. This is perfectly within the bounds of reality
"And I'm guessing by the fact that you two haven't said anything that the math checks out." Love that line.
what does it mean?
@@jackiecardlover It means that they know full well they've done fucked up and got caught doing it by a junior associate lol
@@adlantian6334 Lol, well, if it's any consolation... that junior associate IS a rocket scientist 🤣
Lost in the drama. Good line...none of it based in reality. If you only knew you were talking about unicorns with such passion. dang.
Patrick jane delivers it like a pro
I worked on Wall St. for a number of firms, including two that vanished in 2008. At one of them I worked in the commodity options department. One of the traders there was a guy who worked as an engineer on the Voyager 1 and 2 missions. When I asked why he left NASA he told me the same thing that Zach Quinto says to Jeremy Irons: the money is more lucrative on the Street. When I watch the performances of the actors in Margin Call their characterizations of Wall St. types is so uncanny it sends a chill down my spine.
One of our biggest problems as a society is that often our greatest minds are wasted in Business and Law
worked as an engineer for Voyagers? werent they launched in the seventies?
Yeah, but the real question is: Can you really get the print room to put together multiple report copies at 2 in the morning at such short notice?
@@juliankneaz6893 Google Voyagers I & II.
As someone that dabbled in this, at this time no less, it amazed me how you had the two ends of the spectrum working with each other. The people schmoozers and the numbers people.
Jared knew instantly what had to be done. You can see he figured it out when he asked Sam how long it would it take to clear the books. Then he immediately goes to call Mr. Tuld.
What I don't understand is why, when asked by Tuld at the later meeting for his recommendation, Jared seems to hesitate. Oh wait...he was waiting for the hint from Tuld before nailing his colours to the dump-it-all mast. Crafty.
@@Holdit66 yeah my thoughts, he had to get cast iron approval from Tuld before suggesting it. Tulds role was to get buy in from the other execs as any of them could blow the whistle
Nobody thought about the copy guy. Somebody drags him into this in the middle of the night to print a mysterious draft for senior partners. Everybody is worried about Eric Dale, but that copy guy is sitting on a beach somewhere.
Do you think a copy guy has the knowledge to understand the info in those copies?
And you can bet your ass he made an additional copy.
@@sdc3536 Yes
Carmelo iced his ass
The devil is always the one you least expect.
I’m always waiting for Kevin Spacey to turn to the camera and giving some insight on the matter
Too bad his career is trashed. A very fine actor.
@@mwduck A wonderful actor, used to be my favorite actor, but an absolute horrible human being. I'll admit I still watch old episodes of House of Cards every now and then, but the dude's a fucking monster and deserves to have his career in the shitter.
@@MrConstantine02 Except all cases were dropped and so far he's considered innocent.
@@Ceinae cases dropped cause the witness died in a mysterious accident. Have you read any thing about this while doing your research.
When your case is dropped cause witnesses are all dead and for some reason you now think he's innocent then you're as naive as they come
@@josephbassey1501 who gives a toss, he’s a fantastic actor.
She attempted to discredit Peter Sullivan only to have her ass handed to her. A god damn Rocket Scientist....that's as smart and as qualified as they come.
Smart yes, qualified no, he's hella overqualified and that stopped her from discrediting the file. Now she needed to find other ways to cover her own ass.
i think she tried to discredit eric dale by repeating is this your work, so if it was mainly peters work, then technically the results happened not under her watch
She’s trying to discredit Dale, not Sullivan. Also, she doesn’t know who he is. She’s senior level and he’s entry. She wants to know if he knows what he’s doing, especially with a discovery of this magnitude
@@SideComment24 He's actually not overqualified. "Rocket scientist" doesn't readily transfer to Loss Control/Risk Management in Finance without additional education/experience. Here, she's questioning the source of the file as well as asking for the background of an employee she's completely unfamiliar with to determine how much weight to give his report.
And Eric dale is ex structural engineer...
I love how Jared looks at Sarah once he knew Eric Dale was fired. He was like, "Are you serious? Am I a joke to you?"
Jason, check out the look that Jeremy Irons gives her when HE is told that Dale was fired. It's subtle but it's there just for a split second. Very excellent stuff.
Joey Pots n Pans
I can sell you a watch if you like
I love that detail because there's multiple layers to it - you can tell Jared is not a nice guy, but pragmatically he understands that Eric was a smart man who knew how to foresee problems in the marketplace and who had probably saved them all a lot of money more than once. Even Jared can see that firing Eric was a colossal mistake.
He's also probably slightly offended by Sarah's cheapness and the fact that someone with as much clout in the firm as Eric was let go so unceremoniously. Jared is pure predator, but even he has standards.
@@CopiousDoinksLLCi dont think Jared cared a dot about Eric personally. But Eric was the safety net off the firm and she shredded that safety net for personal reasons.
He is a apex predator who go after every prey he can get with any remorse, but at the same time he always knows he need a back up plan, what the department of risk managment is esentially.
Its the same story again from the days of Ikarus. If you fly to high you will crash down.
One of the most Underrated movies of this century...
Anyone who is involved in college courses on finance or economics should be required to watch this movie.
Made my top 100
I would say it was under-publicized. It received an Oscar nomination so clearly there was buzz. Glad it has hung around.
@Tomasz Lillis Please use a period at the end of a sentence.
not by its fans
2:56 I love how Spacey resets his head before he speaks, like he can't even believe what he's just heard.
THANK YOU!!! I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO NOTICES LITTLE BODY LANGUAGE DETAILS LIKE THAT!!! 😎
.......WHAT?
........... WAT DID HE SAY?
Favorite moment in the scene tbh, flawlessly done.
It's his trademark. He did it in almost all of his movies ( The Usual Suspects, Seven, American Beauty and of course House Of Cards ).
2:50
Spacey's _"What?"_ response is a lesson which could dominate the entire syllabus of an acting course.
Never forget that Seth, contextually, he is WASTED OFF HIS A** while titans of his company are preparing for the apocalypse.
He doesn't have any lines but his body language is superb acting.
She realized at that exact moment Eric Dale was right and she got rid of him because he threatened her over all numbers and calculations.
She was probably pushed by higher management to do so. Eric Dale was the fall guy and she became the fall girl after that.
Also as a C level executive she probably knew (all of them knew) but as Jeremy irons said it’s about to let the music play.
@@Jasonblade9012 Respectfully, I don't agree. As Jeremy Irons said, his job was to guess what the music might do a week, a month, a year from now. That's it. Nothing more. "And standing here tonight, I'm afraid that I don't hear - a - thing. Just... silence." His preference certainly would have been to know weeks, months or years ago what kind of garbage assets and risk they actually held, because they would have been able to slowly offload the crap while the rest of market slept.
@@MrTCHOSS Agreed, it landed directly at her feet.
@@MrTCHOSS Not really. She threated Jeremy when he was about to fire her, which meant he knew something at certain degrees. He had to say so in front of all the people, and one of them might be board member.
@@MrTCHOSS Hard to offload in the background as they would have to be big net sellers every day - would surely be picked up on? Why are suddenly Lehman's (or whoever it is) not buying anymore...
The dynamics between Sam and Jared are incredible in this scene. The way Sam smirks when Jared says "fuck me" and the way he condescends about the business they are in. But then Jared cuts him off when appropriate and shows that ultimately he outranks both Sam and Sarah. And Sam HATES that! Amazing writing and acting in this scene.
Everyone talks about the cast and acting, but can we pause for a moment to acknowledge the genius of Caroline Duncan, the costume designer? If you never heard a sound during the film you still knew the pecking order and life story of each person in the room just by their clothing. Brilliant job.
Sorry, please explain what you mean?
Even everyone's wrist watches are appropiate for each character, ramesh for example wears a patek phillipe or vacheron constanin in rose gold and the main man in the meeting a rolex in 18k gold
Trivia: Simon Baker used his own bespoken suit. He also asked for a new tie because he felt the one they provided was not high-end enough for Jared’s character. He actually went shopping for a new tie with the costume people.
You're so right. Kevin Spacey's suit was a bit dated. Like that of a middle aged divorcee who might be compassionate enough to care about his dog being put to sleep.
@@blazedkermit3338 You need a bit of an eye for clothing, but nothing special. Jared is aspiring to be Top Dog and his suit obviously fits better, is more "now" in style, and is of higher grade material than the others' suits. Sam's suit is older, maybe a few seasons out of date and a little sloppy, fitted but closer to off the rack, and a basic tie. Will's suit is more modern and hip, but the tie is a little too garish and he's obviously trying to emulate Jared. Peter is wearing decent off the rack, and his tie is cheap. Seth is Men's Warehouse and no tie. And further into the movie, when John the Boss shows up his suit is very simple but obviously super high end, basically saying that he has nothing left to prove.
"What time is it?" "2:15"
"What time is it?" "2:16"
Great subtlety in showing the stress level
It's more for dramatization. The guy asking was wearing a very nice watch lol
“I warned you about this last year”, Sam said. “We have talked about this”, Jared said. All knew what was going to happened, but the money was too good. And it was a Jr. Analyst who uncovered the shit under the rug. Eric Dale was fired probably because he was suspicious that the bomb was soon to explode. Everything was supposed to be under control but the bubble became too big for them to handle. It was late, so very late that they had to “be the first to the door”. The building was on fire for weeks but everybody was so distracted to notice it.
cliff notes please
Fu#k me
Doesn't matter really because this film is fictional, but from my observation and experience a guy like Eric Dale was fired because he wasn't a standout at the company. He was a boring and common chap, i.e. not selling/trading, who was probably separated from company because HR (and Spacey's character) deemed him non-essential. They didn't keep up with the employee's universe and understand that Eric Dale was brooding over a behemoth problem. Spacey's character should have been spanked publicly in the conference room for this because Dale was his employee. In my viewpoint. That's problem I have with this movie: Typically in real life there is a scapegoat or two no matter that it's everybody's fault. This movie glosses over that point, but still it's a severely good flick.
@@Piaseczno1 Robinson was made to be that scapegoat later on. And regarding the "non-essential" issue, Spacey's character said earlier he had nothing to do with it. They didn't like that Dale was rocking the boat raising red flags so much and wanted to get rid of the party pooper, only to find out he was right later on.
@@nickpapageorgio926 I think this is true. Dale's character was steaming on the "why" of his firing...which quickly turned to "who"..."Robertson?" he asked Will Emerson...Emerson's non-response told Eric that she had something to do with them letting him go...and yes, it sounds like he could've raised the red flag for real across the ranks, and about a year prior, he brought it to Robertson and she effectively buried it with Tuld and Jared. Sam had brought the issue up to them (through Eric Dale as well) and it seems upper management couldn't care less, the huge gains were all they were after.
I have a habit of rewatching these clips at least twice a year when youtube recommends.
this movie is a master-class in acting
Indeed
@Ali Ibrahim Jeremy Irons nails it.
Oh, yeah, I can't resist to watch particular scenes over and over again ... just to enjoy perfect acting
This movie and Glengary Glen Ross
M. Crow because this movie also points the fingers at the public too. The Big Short had to make their version more simplified for everybody to understand, they had to sex it up and have heroes and villains. Typical Hollywood style. Not saying that The Big Short was bad but imo, Margin Call was film that really explains what was happening. And the true dark side.
The best character for me was Wil Emerson (Paul bettany). That one line of his in the car when he says that if things were really ‘fair’ the general public would be the biggest hypocrites. They want to have the good stuff but not without thinking about their own role in the whole affair.
When the Mentalist tells a man who may or may not be Keyser Soze 'fuck you' after being given an explanation by Spock with spectators consisting of GI Jane, Vision, Joe Goldberg and a guy who has been a post-apocalyptic doctor, a tone-deaf doorman and a driver John Mclane stole a cab from!
What's your cv?
Logic.
this comment is too epic
You won't get the amount of likes you truly deserve for this comment.
Holy shit what crossover is this?
Isnt it the guy beside the girl is the aladeen news doctor?
What I find so intriguing about the this scene isn't what is said, but what isn't said. The various looks, the short moments of silence between sentences; it's every bit as poignant as what's spoken. These actors truly mastered their crafts in this movie.
Yes, truly an amazing movie
Critical to the plot are these two lines:
3:58: "(whispers) I warned you about this last year; we would not be in this position if we had done...."
5:35: "Are you f ing kidding me? We have talked about this."
Yea is subtle but they knew about this
"Did you even look at these numbers, Sam?"
"Yeah, but what do I know?"
Perfect. Excellent. Underrated.
"So you're a rocket scientist?" Damn, Simon Baker is awesome.
They are all great, including Demi Moore.
jared is probably the smartest guy in MC, the moment they tell him they fired Dale he looks at Demi Moore with a "you're screwed" glare, which regularly happens, then he asks how many traders are still available. He had already decided
hahaha
Will is probably just as smart - just not in a position to be calling the shots, but he recognized pretty quickly they were going to be dumping their holdings, and also knows his place in the company but also how important he is to the company, clear when he essentially tells Jared later to go fuck himself when Jared tries to prepare him to take Sam's spot if Sam didn't play ball.
I'm not certain if he had already decided - to me, his look was a kind of disbelief, like "are you f***ing kidding me? What are you playing at?!" - granted, that's only about one step away from "you're screwed" and "you're fired".
Simon Baker should have received an award for that scene alone....
Agree. Baker was the standout. Brilliant acting.
I would love to see him in more movies. The mentalist was an amazing show.
Typical Australian speak, fuck me!!😆
Simon Baker is an underrated actor. I know him mostly from The Mentalist, but comparing that to him here, he seems Ike an absolutely different person. Versatile actor.
Are you guys kidding me? This is an all-star cast! Everybody with lines in that movie has an IMDB list as long as my arm.
BTW, my friends call me 'Stumpy'.-)
My sentiments exactly. Casting was spot on here. Writing was brilliant. Everyone....even the two women from corporate that fire Eric Dale, bring their A game. The security that escorts Eric only says one word.......you know he's not playing games. I watch this film once a year in the same way I look at fine art at the Smithsonian.
Word!
I like this movie. You REALLY like this movie.
Unquestionably one of the finest ensemble casts in the history of cinema. Every utterance from every character is pitch perfect.
When watching, I am not viewing a movie. I am a fly on the wall observing real moments of high drama involving sober, authentic denizens of high finance.
I love how the scene begins on a closeup of Cohen's wristwatch, and later he asks what time it is.
I guess he knows how to delegate.
Because he doesn't wear a nice watch to tell the time.
I think it was a subliminal message about how stressed he was and in turn how serious the situation is. He asks what time is it and is told 2:15. A few seconds later he asks again and it is 2:16. So to him that few seconds must have felt like an eternity. Not to mention, in that situation and type of business every second counts. So it is likely that he had to make decisions immediately.
The time is.... up
wow, you guys must be brainiacs
I can't wait for the coronavirus version of this movie
Me too. The whole thing will be lies. It will pend off are greatest minds having no idea (psst, they did, but the greatest minds were being stomped on by orange make up and "we're #1" for decades). Do you think they will be wearing super nice suits, be attractive, and be really really intense in their acting? Juice drama.
@HRH President of Tattooine damn sheeple huh? sucks not to be you
@Zeed whoa whoa of course the anonymous gentleman going by @HRH president of tattoovin is well versed in global economy and trade and more genius than hundred thousand or million virologists, epidemiologists i bet he also mines his own tin for his tinfoil hat.
/s
@@megadeath6720 LOL he's running short though that's why its to tight :)
Except back than nobody was expecting it but today literally every is expecting it. So by definition it can't be a bubble.
This is highly accurrate I have sat in such meetings where the person in charge has already made the decision, then comes the pretense of group discussion which is all just pantomime to ensure blame can be spread around as needed.
What you are seeing here is a competent leader/crisis manager at work.
This guy in charge has not yet made the decision. He's briefed, and knows there's two options: the house is on fire or somebody is crying wolf. He also knows that if option A is true, there is only one outcome: he needs to call C-block, prepare a firesale, keep everything secret, and do it FAST. There's no time to chit-chat and let everyone have a say, the meeing has just one singular purpose: to validate that the report is not BS. He gets that result in the minimum possible time, and the second he has it, he steps out to set things in motion. He cuts people off when they play blame-games or start posturing, and isn't interested when he gets a lecture on how painful it will be to rip off the band-aid.
This is one of the things i love most about the movie: it consists pretty much exclusively of people doing their job competently.
@@TheXtrafreshthat summary is interesting but maybe a little generous based on two facts, 1 as he points out himself they have discussed this previously and 2 if he didn't already know this then he hasn't been doing his job. There were randos online predicting the 2008 crash before it happened so if you work inside that space and didn't know it was coming, at best your an idiot. Lets be honest the whole industry knew it was coming because it happens regularly in cycles as Jeremy Irons character points out later in the film, they just like to try and prolong the good times for as long as possible and hope the crash happens on someone elses watch.
I love how Peter doesn't take whole credit for discovering this... Seems like a humble, nice guy. He could have been like "yeah, I found this all by myself and saved your asses"!
+MassiveConspiracy AgainstHumanLife Peter was scared that what happened to Eric Dale (his boss, who got canned earlier for essentially "knowing too much" by Sarah Robertson, who was trying to cover her butt) was gonna happen to him (if he claimed it was his work), so he tried to deflect it back to Eric -- smart move, and shows that Peter's thinking about more than just numbers. With someone like Sarah, you have to be really, really careful. Ditto with Jared.
tungt88 well said... when you work in a corporate environment, you have to think every steps you are taking.
Actually, you absolutely do not want to take credit for knowing something like that when it's too late, that's why he kept saying it's based on Eric's work.
@@tungt88 Absolutely this. 99 times out of 100, when a boss like that asks you if you did something...he's not looking to praise you.
You do something good? That's your job. That's what you're paid for. Shut up
Do something bad? That's what they'll point out.
@@tungt88 Brilliantly true. About a year after I was hired, my boss' boss gave me this advice: "I *can't* teach you how to _advance_ in this business... but I *can* teach you how to _survive._
Outstanding dialogue between Kevin Spacey and Simon Baker! Mounting tension.
A Margin Call Story : Ramesh - The Man From Upstairs
“They can slow you down- “
*Loads Shotgun*
“ -But they can’t stop you.”
What does he mean by "the mean from upstairs"? Later on in the movie when Jared enters Sam's office, Jared notified Sam that the firm is going to start "sending people home", but Sam is still good to stay because "someone from upstairs" really liked him. What are the people from upstairs? The Board of Directors?
@@fuhaoxian7316 he is Most probably Legal Advisor
I would watch that.
@@fuhaoxian7316 when Jared said "someone from upstairs" to Sam, he undoubtedly refer to John, since it's him who convinced Sam privately to do what he did
but yeah, people from upstairs must have higher status
Jared excuses himself briefly at 3:45, and returns in about 15 seconds to continue with the meeting, already knowing what needs to happen. He wraps it up and says they'll meet again in 45 minutes. Sam then asks, "Are you going to call him?", meaning Tuld, and Jared, as he gets up to leave, says, "I already have."
So, to unpack some of this:
-Jared has looked at the report briefly and understood immediately what needs to happen, which is what does happen during the rest of the movie
-he was probably asleep not long before
-at 2:18am, he got his boss on the phone, and returned knowing he'd be there in time for a meeting in 45 minutes. Tuld had to answer right away, Jared said, Get in here now, leaving Tuld no doubts--don't blink or you'll miss it.
-must have been a company chopper with a pilot on call 24/7 (or Tuld can pilot?)--lots of moving parts there
-oh, and no matter what happened later, the copy room person probably still has a job
This is such a good movie, and what a cast.
It would have to be an on-call pilot. There would be no way Tuld could wake up, get dressed, get to the helo, preflight it, check the wearther, start up, launch, and make it to the meeting in just 45 mins. Also, if he was the pilot, he would have to leave the aircraft on the roof and then there would be no room for the next helo.
Jared steps out of the room for 8 seconds depending on how you count your mississippis. Maybe 10 seconds if I've counted slow. Unless it's a direct line that was immediately answered(at 2 oclock in the morning?) he said maybe 5 words and then hung up and immediately spun around and returned to the room. It's just not practical. It's more likely that he told someone to call Tuld, like possibly the secretary.
Jeremy irons learnt how to fly a helicopter in die hard. We all know that. He probably has some gold bars still in that chopper.
I love how they don't hand-feed you everything. The Chief Risk Management Officer is trying to discredit the report she tries to assert came from a fairly junior analyst but ends up with, yep, he's a rocket scientist.
In my experience, that's pretty typical in most businesses. The senior staff use their experience to draw on since they're far less in touch by not being in it/on the ground anymore. They typically discredit junior people who are, at times, more sharp, ultimately pretending everything is ok: Up until about the point where everything falls apart and they should've listened to the people they hired.
I think it's not that, its that she is impressed with what he has done.
I've been reading up on the whole plot, synopsis for weeks. What happened is that she was earlier warned about all this by Eric Dale (Stan Tucci). While the warning was itself swept under the rug (Kevin Spacey, Stephen Baker, Jeremy Irons all knew of it) it ultimately ended with Tucci being sacked. Now that the warning has come up in a detailed report, Demi Moore tries to deflect any blame from the earlier warning, attributing the warning/issue only coming up now, crediting the 'rocket scientist' for putting things together. I read about it in multiple forums, including movies.stackexchange where Lit grads were discussing this masterpiece. These subtle displays are one of the many reasons why such a star studded cast came up for such a low budget movie.
yup, boners come in different shapes, sizes and colors when the numbers check out
Almost every word out of her mouth in the movie was damage control or showing that she was in over her head. She wanted the report to be Peter's and not Eric's so she wouldn't look so bad for firing him. Peter worked there for two years and she never met him. While Jared was panicking, he was working on a solution within moments.
Best line in the whole movie...
"So you're a rocket scientist"?
Adam Richardson
Followed closely by.....
“.... and what the fuck is his name???”
That and "Fuck me."
Not only a genuine "rocket scientist" but a PhD from MIT. In others words, the sonofabitch really knows his stuff. So the math is going to be correct.
Best line in the clip. Some of the best lines in the movie belong to the CEO character during the second meeting later.
Adam Richardson Irony at its finest
"And Peter - has any one else seen this?" "Yeah, the mystery guy who was skulking round the photocopy room at 2 in the morning".
Do companies have copy boys on call at 2:15 am..lol
@@andrewminty3250 everybody in this movie stays dressed and alert as if its 2pm rather than 2-4am. Especially the boardroom scene later.
Ramesh did best improvision. His narrative changed the moment he heard small chat.
People like Ramesh are the one who have key position in corporates.
2:58 "What?" The most weighted what Spacey ever delivered on the silver screen.
Perfect shot in the beginning, highlighting his watch to play off of him asking for the time repeatedly later in the scene. Masterpiece.
She fired Eric Dale.
“Eric, I didn’t do anything.”
LIAR!
Which is exactly what got HER fired at the end of the movie. #Karma
Not exactly. It was Tuld who kind of had her do it. But since she's head of risk, everyone would blame her, and she takes the fall. I mean, she had passed Eric's concerns several times to Cohen and Tuld, and they told her to fuck off. Only so many times she can pass on Eric's "bad" suggestions before Tuld has her fire him. It's implied that she didn't really have much of a choice
That's the point of this movie. There are fall people, and they're never the truly powerful ones that deserve to go. The buck always gets passed on
@@pranavanand4305 I don't know the details, but Eric in a sense failed too. He couldn't conclusively demonstrate the problem, it was Peter Sullivan who filled in what Eric was missing. They may have seen Eric as a Chicken Little who had become an annoyance, especially if he was talking to others. However, the moment Peter finished Eric's work, they paid immediate attention. I don't want to excuse them too much, only to say that reaction was understandable since they were making so much money.
Another lesson to take from this is a toxic corporate culture. They had two brilliant men who working together may have solved the problem weeks or even months earlier, but everything was so hush and paranoid and cold that Eric worked on this in isolation. If the problem had been solved a few months earlier, perhaps no need for a fire sale; they could have instead slowly divested themselves of their troubled holdings before they became too dangerous.
But if you watch carefully, all of the higher-ups knew this could happen, expected it even.
The tension between jared and sam is awesome.
_"and we turned off his phone today."_
That's by far my favorite line in the film.
5:36 when Jared shows you why he's Jared.
Seth = Analyst
Peter = Associate
Eric = VP
Will = MD
Sam = Partner
This movie is a perfect representation of high corporate asset managers. The script is just perfect and the acting is amazing. Excellent movie.
"No one here is smart enough including the rocket scientist".
That might just be the point!
A killer can spot another killer.
Actually he was the one who was enough smart...
@@novemberalpha6023 only inside
"my thesis focused on the study of friction ratios and how they effect steering outcomes in reduced gravity loads"...……...mic drop
@Tracchofyre if only we took all the rocket scientists from NASA and put them on Wall Street our economy wouldn't be so fucked
@@therealestg9 Wall Street has a lot of Phds working there. It's a part of the problem. They have created a lot of complicated instruments that end up creating havoc.
@@therealestg9 Yeah. We did that, and ended up with things like credit default swaps and CDOs, which caused the housing crisis.
@@scatterbrainart I don't think the credit default swaps caused the crisis, they only profited from it. The combination of Mortgage Backed Securities and CDOs were what caused the crisis when people started putting seriously risky mortgages in them and then labeled the whole thing AAA because "diversified".
@@ThisIsMego and that is moral hazard... which was the main problem that led to the crisis.
The script in this scene is perfect. The acting is perfect. The camera work in this scene is perfect. Notice, for example, how the copy guy’s face was never shown. Notice also how on the first round, Peter’s name was not known. But Jared knew his name because Peter had proven his worth. Not only did Peter illuminate the problem, but he also withstood Jared’s and Demi Moore’s questioning of his credentials. An African proverb says: When a child washes his hands, he is worthy to dine with kings. Seth, on the other hand, is barely surviving,
I thought Simon Baker was going to have a panic attack with acting skills that good
He's an extremely talented actor...Very underrated, though.
So much in this scene: Pacing, costume design, Acting. Very fine indeed.
Simon Baker is really an amazing talent.
I was an at home options swimg and day trader for four years leading to the flash crash and Bear Sterns collapse. From 2005 to 2009 the market was so bullishly predictable anyone and I do mean anyone could have made a shit ton of money relative to their day job. I did what I set out not to do. I let greed take hold and the one time I altered a trade to scalp a bit more premium on margin of course I saw 4 years of work disappear in 90 seconds. $300k account gone, house gone and wife of 16 years with 3 children gone. A year later child support and spousal maintemance took 70% of my post tax earnings which forced me to live in my car. All of that gone from one split second decision to squeeze just a little more. The little more was $5k gross revenue. “$5k” is written on a piece of paper I keep in my wallet as a reminder.
Holy crap man.. thats hard.
Good God Almighty...I read you post, or you might say, confession and was floored. I used to work in banking in the early 90's, pre-internet bubble, and saw something similar happen to a coworker. Stole $2k out of an account and for a few days thought he got off scott-free. The FBI walked him out of the building in handcuffs in front of everyone. 3 months on the job and 1 day ruined his life too. He lost his family, and not sure how much jail time he served, but it was a sobering reality check. Your story brought back that memory.
Damn, I'm sorry that lapse in judgment cost you so much in your life. How are you doing today? Have you been able to bounce back?
spousal maintenance is one of the most bullshit things i hear from the usa
@@juzojuzo1806 depends on what state you live in. My state doesn't have alimony but the courts can make you pay "spousal maintenance" until the divorce is finalized. After that, they are on their own.
Favorite lines: 1. "What time is it?", 2. "Do you?" 3. "So your a rocket scientist?"
This scene does a great job of letting you know what type of person Cohen is.
He doesn’t have to keep his cool, the logic machinery does that for him even after he blows up for a second.
His lips don’t even move when he says, “a rocket scientist” and he gets into the zone doing so much work in a few seconds that he loses track of time.
these two meetings (1st and senior) are an acting masterclass. even those who don't have any lines are stunning!
Corbin Bernson
I love how, even though these are all employees in high positions, they meet each other for the first time. The Firm is so large and impersonal that no one knows the heads of the other departments. They don't even remember the name of a guy they were just introduced to. And the most important one was just sacked because no one was paying attention.
Sam had the same conversation with Jared and John, and John toasted him that's authority
I like that there is no music. All you can hear is the hum of the HVAC system running. Gives it that extra realistic feel to anyone that's worked in a corporate soulless shithole.
The best moment of this scene is when they occasionally browse through that report as if they actually have a clue about what they are looking at. This is exactly how I imagine this kind of people handling important information and consequently screwing everything up :D
The Mentalist, GI Jane, Vision, Spock, Joe's Pizza and President Underwood walk into a bar.
Will Emerson: “I have an equation...”
he has a very expensive watch on but keeps asking for the time lolol. i love that part.
'It would seem we have a problem'
'Oh, thank you for that'
LOL!
This meeting, called the "First Meeting", is a condensed version of the "Senior Partners Meeting". Jared Cohen comes to the same conclusion, only much quicker, than the big boss (Jeremy Irons) does at the senior partners meeting. He knows the only way out is to dump it all as fast as possible. Are you gonna call him? I already did.
I'm pretty sure the CEO knows what they're going to have to do before he walked in the room. The purpose of the meeting was to get everyone else on board with the decision.
1:38.... His speciality in his Rocket Science subject and the economical crisis they were facing are somehow identical... That's why he found it, but a normal Chief Risk Management Officer couldn't. The way the movie makers made this analogy is simply brilliant.
I think she knew, but as a C level her role is the survival of the company day by day... not really time to take a seat in the back and analyze... and she might have a similar background as Sullivan.
Also your analogy was brilliant!
@@Jasonblade9012 she only thought about her own survival... She knew what was happening... She was smart but apparently the rocket scientist outsmart her.. thanks by the way
We are all still very much paying the price for that stooped formula that Peter realised was “broken”. I have said this so many times, but will say again, I adore this film for its cut and thrust dialogue, the sound track and two actors: Jared - omg how gorgeous is that surfer boy and Kevin Spacey who is the best actor for so many years. I know he’s been a bad boy, but you have to give it to him, he’s an amazing amazing actor…also love the rug he’s wearing xx
4:36 "Look, Jared, it's a very simple business. We talked about this--"
"Sam!"
Yup, Jared knows there are some things that simply must not be said in front of the children. And Compliance is there, and so is the Lawyer.
But Sam repeatedly demonstrates, here and in the next meeting, that as smart and gosh darn caring as he is, he hasn't quite taken to heart the fact the company is dying as surely as his dog was, once the pentobarb went in.
Is it legal to have this many GREAT actors in one movie ?
I'd send you the email, but....
This scene really highlights the cinematography. You rarely see more than one person when they are speaking and often the camera is not focused on the person speaking. Great use of shots to portray positions and relationships.
Watch the movie Deception (2008) sometime. I know nothing about cinematography and lighting but this movie, and the commentary on disk, are great.
czcams.com/video/Co8xRoqC3kY/video.html
"What is a specialty in propulsion exactly?"
"My thesis was a study in the ways that friction ratios effect steering outcomes in aeronautical use under reduced gravity loads."
"So you worked on spaceships."
"I did, yeah"
"So how did you end up here?"
"While serving, I was mentally outwitted and acted out. I then relinquished command being that I was no longer fit for duty."
The thing that always cracks me up about this scene is Jared Cohen (Simon Baker) 3:45 suddenly getting up and going out of the room and coming back a little over 15 second later, and I'm imaging him in the other room jumping up and down and screaming obscenities, and then coming back in calm and collected.
No, he went and call the CEO John Tuld and break the bad news. I presume he already have inkling of what's going on even before this meeting, seeing the number on the report only confirm his fear. Cohen is molded like Tuld, ruthless, and they don't care that the market will be dead for a couple of years as long as the company survive.
Actually he called the big boss…. 😅😂😂
SUCH A MISSED N UNDER RATED WALLSTREET MOVIE!!!
I love how the blonde fella is already thinking of how to sell the bonds and swaps and when the big guy gets in hes thinking that as well, in sync for real
Corporate cannibalism at it's finest. I just love how she goes after the junior analysts credentials in a way that suggests that she is just trying to understand the likelihood of the veracity of the document, when what she was really doing is an immediate search for a hole in the document to discredit it and find someone else to throw under the bus. And then when that gets knocked down, she and her underling immediately try and stall a decision to buy some time to find another way to save their arses. She was probably looking for something to say higher up like "well the analyst concerned only has a BA in fine arts, so we need to some time to properly investigate". Immediate CYAN mode - Cover Your Arse Now. When the analyst explains his background she must've been thinking "fucking HR - where the hell did they find the budget to hire someone like that?
Something tells me you’ve worked inside a failing company before lol
@@chartreusecircle1546 not a failing company - just a sheltered workshop where that kind of behaviour is common. But yes, a company that should fail if we had truly free market forces.
It's worth noting the comment from her subordinate about plugging in the VAR numbers and getting the same results. That was him backstopping to show he had value from a risk perspective to try and save his own arse - even though he contradicts this by agreeing they need more time. A brilliantly written and acted scene
That isn't what she is doing whatsoever. She had seen these numbers before from Mr. Dale and disregarded them because it was in her and the companies' best interest at the time to continue doing what they were doing for the sake of profits. She wanted Peter to claim them as his own so she could say she was acting upon 100% new information and not that she was warned and proven ineffective at her post. She asks his background because she wanted to say Mr. Dale was the "ineffective" link in the chain so Peter could be the savior who discovered the issue Dale couldn't, and she was the one who acted upon his model.
I appreciate Sam's favorite words of the entire film "Do you" haha
@@romulus7739 Romulus is mostly right. Except Robinson didn't disregard the risk numbers. She passed them on to Cohen and Tuld (Jeremy Irons). They all knew it was super risky. When it finally blows up, she's not surprised, and she knows Tuld will need a fall guy to take the blame for the strategy he approved. (See the later scene where Tuld tells her "I need a head to feed the board"). Robinson hopes it will be Dale -- which is why she wants Peter to claim credit -- or maybe Cohen. Ultimately it's her. Tuld forces her out to save himself and his boy Cohen. Welcome to the world of the corporate shark pool.
The tension between kevin spacey and jared is amazing.
Mr Cohen looked at Ms Robertson twice when it is mentioned that Eric Dale is let go and we turned off his phone today. She just stared back at Mr Cohen without answering twice. Took me a while to understand this. It is likely that Mr Cohen know about all these and putting on an act. Ms Robertson is just an obedient employee following the instructions of her boss and finally been made a scrape goat for such a huge misstep in not foreseeing this crisis.
I'm weirdly addicted to this movie. Its really magnetic.
As an engineer, I am constantly "coached" on how to do engineering by the finance people. They have run our company into the ground.
Boeing? I've been hearing a lot about that recently.
Such an underrated movie.
87 on Rotten Tomatoes
"My thesis was a study in a way that friction ratios affect steering outcomes in aeronautical use under reduced gravity loads."
Bloody brilliant
Gerard Ornell and yet people like him end up at hedge funds and banks because the pay is the better when people like him can make the world a better place
Max Chong you could become one of em! why don’t ya?
He can leterally say "it's Not rocket science".
This movie is so great; and sadly representative.
It would be a lot more brilliant (and realistic) if it was specified what friction forces the ratios referred to.
Wonderful pitch black comedy that continues to resonate. The higher up the chain, the less people understand the numbers with tears only shed for a dog. Perhaps the only once-living thing that could be trusted here.
Once you get that high up you're managing managers who manage managers that manage other managers. You literally couldn't look at all the numbers because you wouldn't have the time in the world to do that.
The irony of it all is that he helped ruin many people's lives that day, but the only thing he wept for was his dog. It's saying a ton about the character. He might seem charismatic and nice and all, but he is as guilty as the rest of them. He made his money off of the backs of many victimized people and businesses.
Jared was wearing watch but still frequently asking "what time is it"? It clearly suggest that he had no time to even look at the watch because the situation was very tense and he has to do something immediately. Excellent acting!
"So you're a rocket scientist?" Yea i served on starship enterprise before this job
And yes, I could get those issues off the books in sec, if you'd just let me create a Quantum Singularity....
A what?
Trust me..
No way..
The SEC is breaking down the door...we're all going to prison!!
Do it..! (Sullivan presses a button on his hand-held)
One Singularity coming up...they're the Delta Quadrant's problem now.
Can I see that thing?.....Uh, no..
I chuckled and then snorted over this comment! Thank you, good sir!)
i love that people at this point are already in survival mode, saying "we have talked about this" to other characters to try to establish that they weren't stupid (they knew ahead of time) and also weren't complicit (that they tried to tell everyone).
What amazes me is that that they are still wearing suits at 4 in the morning
They probably sleep in those :D
People like that often have multiple clean, pressed suits in their offices just in case.
It's 2:16 in the morning. The movie started when Dale got fired in the late afternoon. The head guy stops later on for a shave in the restroom.
@@MichaelMiller-bs3tz These kinds of offices offer their own in-house drycleaning services.
It's actually 2:16... Fuck me
I love this movie because it shows the reality of the higher your position is in the company, the less in tune you are about what’s going on in the company
The thing that frustrates me the most about this film is that despite all of Sam's objections, we never got to hear his alternative solution to the whole mess.
He didn't have one. All he had was the impact on their current business if they implemented the course of action they chose. He never once says "Lets consider this approach..." All he says is "This is going to hurt our current business" and everyone at the table knows there is no other alternative
@@patginty OK, so his argument boils down to cost outweighs the benefits right? If so, why not give him a chance to elaborate his reasoning? He still wasn't given any chance to present his argument in full.
'My thesis was a study in the ways that friction ratios affect steering outcomes under reduced gravity loads'
First, they're called friction factors, not friction ratios.
Second, friction factors relate to solid/solid interactions. When it is fluid/solid interaction it is aerodynamic lift and drag coefficients.
Third, if it is in reduced gravity, it is in the upper atmosphere where the air is so thin lift and drag are not relevant.
'So, you're a rocket scientist?'
No, as he said, he's an engineer with specialisation in aerodynamics - duh!
Fantastic, under appreciated movie. It shows that a well written script and quality acting creates more suspense and drama than extravagant sets trickery. Notice minimal background music, heightens suspense and makes you focus on the characters, their words and reactions.
A subtle point in a movie filled with great acting choices, but when Shah asks for the file Sam dismissively flips it at him as if to say “more than happy to get this turd out of my hand”. The clatter of it skidding across the table really jumps out.
The best part of repeated watchings of this movie have shown this great undercurrent. Whenever someone gets scared by the numbers or want to know who else knows what's in the document, they ask for Eric Dale. Whenever they ask for Eric Dale, someone tells them that he was fired. And then everyone, EVERYONE either talks about or shoots a grave look at Sarah Robertson. Even John Tuld when he hears Eric Dale was fired, he stares lasers into Sarah.
And while we have a rough idea of what was going on that got him fired, it's even more awesome that something very specific must have happened between Sarah and Eric, because everyone in the company knows whose responsibility his firing was. To have been a fly on the wall when that was first discussed "about a year ago." But the acting gets what must have happened in that meeting across in the most subtle ways possible. We don't know exactly what happened, but everyone else seems to know exactly what happened, and nobody is happy with Sarah.
Also, everyone seems to not know what they're looking at, but it's good to know that Jared Cohen does not, like everyone from Wil Emerson on up, just say they can't understand it and would like it explained in plain English. Jared Cohen seems heartless, but also seems like the one who really knows what's going on.