Lathe Chuck Grinding
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- čas přidán 5. 08. 2024
- Sometimes everything goes wrong. In this video I try to show you how to grind in a 6 jaw lathe chuck, but what really happens is I show you how important it is to use the right grease. I hope you learn a lot from this video because I did, making it :-)
Email .........Dale@metaltipsandtricks.com
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I'd be interested in a video on aligning and levelling a lathe please.
Yes please, alignment video
Keith Rucker vintage machinery has good video on leveling a big, IIRC, Leblond
@@russelllawson9797 nnn
Mmn
core t lathe adjusting and rapari look at djadko maxim canal,dont look ths comercial asshole!
You are right the sharp tink of a hard faced hammer will break the rust better and you weren't hitting it hard enough to damage anything
I would like to see how you align and level the bed, you make fantastic videos and it would be one of the best on CZcams. Also surely if you make a ring on a chuck that's out the the ring is going to out too?
Yes, let's see alignment and level of a lathe.
@@CraigsWorkshop yes when you put it like that, I had a egg shape in my head.
Me too. I have a Boxford I need to set up.
I always pick up something interesting from your videos. From Land Rover to chuck repair and everything in between. Thank you
Appreciate you showing your mistakes , makes me feel a little better knowing that I’m not the only one who screws up occasionally. So many channels show these how to videos that we are not capable of accomplishing with hobby machines that were warn out before we ever got them , but it’s still fun making chips . 😊 ! Thanks for the. Video .
Love the racing stripe on the wall. Mine is on my shirt. 😀
mine is in my drawers!
Great, ofc I would like to see how to align lathe, good video idea, keep it up !!
Another great video Dale. Always great info and instruction. Keep em coming !
The most important thing to know about scroll chucks is that the scroll has some clearance around its outer edges. It can be (and is) pushed one way and another within the chuck body. Which way? It gets pushed in the direction that the most recent tightening adjuster pushed it. As it gets pushed around, it carries all the jaws (3, 4, or 6) with it. The only way around this is to be consistent about the order that you tighten the adjusters, and that you always end up tightening the same adjuster last. (It usually has a mark by it.) If you always tighten by rotating the chuck towards you and finish on the marked adjuster, you should end up with the scroll (and the jaws) offset by the same amount and in the same direction every time. Once you have that consistency, you can then grind the jaws to be concentric with the body of the chuck when the scroll (and jaws) are in THAT position.
Peter W. Meek you right,but this artist is just comercial shit....click busines...if younow whati mean....
Hi! Yes please do the aligning and leveling video, thank-you.
Mike.
I remember a video with a plumb Bob in it for "leveling" but I'd like to see a whole new one on alignment. I like the way you explain things like that. It really helps me out.
Yeah Dale, we want to see that lathe leveling video! Thanks for your time
This is a very good lesson. Thanks. I'd enjoy learning about lathe alignment as well. Thanks again.
The align and level the lathe tip is golden😎💯... 2 years ago I grinded my first chuck and made everything all right I looked very carefully that everything is exactly how I was told to do.. But the result was not very good so I tried again and again and whatever I tried it didn't work. One month later I became my new big lathe with D1 4 Camlock spindle and a friend gave me a good old ROEHM 4 jaw chuck as a present which I had to grind first.. I didn't like the idea of grinding a chuck again but I had to give it a try and the result blow my mind it still is the best 4jaw I ever saw.... Why that? The lathe was leveled and aligned not long ago and so the result was that good 👍😎😅
Great video!
Just rescued a PB 6" chuck that I considered scrap.
Followed you method and it worked perfect.
Keep the content coming.
Neil, Newport South Wales UK
I can't imagine even owning a six jaw chuck, but I couldn't tear myself away from this video. Very engaging
By holding the grinder at 90 degrees to the surface all load is being put on the grinder radially and with that stick out it would enable some deflection. Depending on how much of each jaw was coming into contact with the grinder you may have been experiencing some deflection. The amount of deflection would change based on how much pressure each jaw was putting on the grinder. IE 1 jaw might be 2 thou further out than the next.
The outcome of this would be that depending on how you your held your stock it could change every time you re-chuck something (I think).
If you used a cone style grinding bit and came into it at 45 degrees you'd reduce the amount of deflection because it would transmit roughly half axially and the other half radially.
This may also make exactly 0 difference. Just throwing out a possibly fix/suggestion.
If you keep grinding until the stone is grinding no material, the pressures will become more equal and eventual zero (grinder not contacting jaw). The deflection becomes equal.
I'm late to the party, but I'd also like to see the align and level video. However, I'm just glad you are back to putting out videos more often, so I'm good with anything honestly.. Thanks Dale!
I felt your frustration. I have similar challenges, with similar results. Once in a while though everything works correctly and it all comes together.
Hi Im from the UK, been in engineering a long time and think i can offer some information that might help you. The issue lies in the wear between the scroll and the boss it sits on, if you strip the chuck down again and check the clearance between them im sure you will find its greater than it should be, any wear here will allow the scroll to 'float' radially and when you tighten the jaws down it jams it in that offset position. Hence why the thicker grease helped accuracy but didnt cure the problem completely..and as the grease gets squeezed out the innaccuracy will return. This is why you get a different reading each time you either loosen and retighten or you tighten using more than one of the chuck key sockets. If you eliminate the wear here your chuck will improve massively, and that is why old or well used chucks loose their accuracy more than any other reason unless they have been stressed from overtightening. Another way to prove this is chuck up a bar and clock it, take the nearest high chuck jaw to a high point and with a block of aluminium and a hammer give the jaw a moderate but not hard tap and reclock. you will see the bar shift if the scroll is floating inside the chuck body. I hope this helps. Vic ..V.B.Engineering
how would you "eliminate wear" ?
@@RedDogForge its natural wear, you can only reduce it with good maintenance and lubrication...when its worn out its worn out. i guess its possible to machine the chuck body and the scroll and make an accurate spacer but its a lot of work on something thats going to be worn in other areas too. When my chucks lose their concentricity i replace them and use them as 'rough work' chucks..for jobs i dont want to put in a decent chuck like rusty farmers drive shafts etc
Great video Dale...keep it up..i learn alot from your video...thanks...
n would be great if possible. Great to have you back again. Kind Regards, Mike
Great. A new video from you. Keep it up
I'd like to see your technique on aligning and leveling. Every time I've talked to someone or seen someone do it, I've learned something. Teach away!!!
Interesting video, been there myself with frustrating effort as well. A lathe level and alignment video from you would be welcomed.
Yes please to how to align and level a lathe. I'm hoping to buy my first lathe soon. Seems like a good thing to be able to do when I buy one!
Excellent presentation. On my three jaw I always use an indicator. I can affect quite a change by adjusting the pressure on different adjusting points. Typically mine will range from 0.08 to 0.02mm with some adjustments, but I always use my indicator. I rarely just tighten the three jaw with out checking.
Very interesting on how grease type has an affect on the assembly. I never really thought about it until you mentioned it. Achieving repeatable high precision has many variables!
No way grease made that difference. He's just selling WD-40 products. Just as soon as he started about the company sending him stuff you know it's not objective.
I don’t believe it for a second.
How much play does the scroll have in the bore of the chuck body? The tapper of the chuck key gears will push it back and forth in its bore if there is a lot of clearance. You could even test this by tapping on the jaws when a part is chucked in the chuck. Can you adjust the run out that way. In fact that is exactly the way we use to do it before set true chucks were available. This could explain why the thicker grease helped your run out problem. It sort of helps the scroll center in its bore when chucking. Also as you say the scroll could be worn on not made accurately so if you test bar is not the same diameter as your grind it may not run true at that diameter.
Possibly the rust removal removed enough material to make the scroll inaccurate at different positions?
Exactly my thoughts as I was watching, the guts looked frankly piss poor, any change in work diameter will put the jaws in a different spot on the scroll and make the grind meaningless again. Over the years I have really come to favor 4 jaw chucks, they are as precise as you want them to be, just takes a little practice.
Quick question Peter. Would it be a problem grinding the jaws for one diameter then chucking on a workpiece another diameter? Love your videos btw!
SimenSupreme It depends on the accuracy of the scroll and its fit in the chuck body. If the scroll is accurate and it has a close fit in the body of the chuck than theoretically the chuck should chuck all diameters within its range with that accuracy. But everything has some clearance and inaccuracy. That's why a scroll chuck (notice I said scroll chuck) can't be as accurate or repeat as well as say a collet chuck. The best way in my mind is to use a chuck with interchangeable top soft jaws and bore the jaws for the diameter you are chucking.
I would also like to see a video on levelling and aligning a lathe. Keep up the good work!
Align...Level... always interesting. Thanks for sharing,
Cheers
I have a 10” Cushman 3 jaw chuck that is unusable do to bell mouthing of the jaws. I need to do this! Last time I ground a chuck it was an epic failure, so I’ve been hesitant to attempt it again! However I do have a much better understanding of the grinding process! Thanks for sharing!
TROLL, no, it's just me Dale. Great to see you back in front of the camera my friend.
just a few hopefully constructive comments, sometimes a thin oil is better than thick grease. Although the grease takes up play it also acts like a form of shock absorber, oil on the other hand being thin can be more consistent. if you think of the case of a cross slide lead screw, a thick grease may sound a good idea but its not. Under heavy cuts it will get sqeezed out of the way but under light cuts it doesn't, leading to inconsistent depth of cuts on finishing cuts. Someone with DRO on their lathe could experiment to confirm or deny the hypothesis.
It is better to have the jaws very slightly tighter furthest from the chuck face, a reverse bell mouth in effect. If ground trully parallel, once under load, they will become bell mouthed, due to inevitable play in the system, and cause problems especially when parting. At least these are my experiences.
keep up the good work and ignore the
tr-lls.
i use sp220 in chucks i work with ight gear oil,never had an issue, could be that this chuck is stuffed, needs a new one
chris0tube Sorry for that, will try harder to join the masses next time. 😉😉😉
Whats up chuck? Ah, I'm just hangin' 'round. I liked this video. Keep'em rollin'
That Chuck was stripped down *Buck* Naked! :)
I liked your previous video on leveling a lathe. Would be interested in a new one. Some finds, such as the six jaw chuck, are rusty for a reason. LOL
You're absolutely right about the sharp blow of a hard hammer versus the soft thud of a soft face hammer.
Cool to see you mounted one of those metabo die grinders on a dovetail! I've been using one for years....the slower model gear head die grinder is what I use, & mostly for small endmills & drills.
Congratulations for your videos!
Oh please make a video about aligning the lathe....
Please make a level and alignment video.
You're great at explaining things!
Nice to see you shown this even though it hasn't worked out quite as you wanted it to, just a thought have you seen Solid Rock Machine Shop he has a great way of truing up lathe chucks, may be worth a look if your doing another one.
Alan.
Love to see a lathe set up video. Got an early 1900s American Tool Works lathe to set up.
I use the technique you already showed on leveling the lathe. Joe P has a good explanation on the geometry. Would like to see how you measure and correct alignment.
Great video on the chuck grind!.Would love to see a video on alignment and leveling of a lathe, thanks.
Very good and thanks for everything
As a thought one way to remove debris from grinding is to place a magnet inside a zip-lock bag and as you move it over the lathe surfaces it would pick up the swarf. Then simply invert the bag on itself and the swarf would be inside the bag and the magnet would be clean
The grinding dust is also silicone carbide or aluminium oxide or zirconia, these are non magnetic and hard abrasive - that's where the real danger is.
I definitely need to align my lathe, please do that video soon!
That's a good method to grind a chuck . Cheers .
You are terrifyingly brilliant.
The six jaw chuck in principle is a thing of beauty, can really see the advantages of using one on a lathe when you are trying to grip a part that may crush or distort by trying to hold in a 3 jaw. Those extra jaws offer a more even pressure similar to the way a collet holds small items, which can be very helpful. Too bad the design has no way to indicate it in like a 4 jaw chuck. Great effort in trying to rescue this one.
Fantastic!!!!
Thanks for sharing. Recent subscriber. I notice you frequently comment about trolls. Too bad, just seems there are a slew of people out there that have nothing better to do but look for something to criticize, but overlook the 99% of the other information that could or would be useful to them. If the content wasn’t useful, and they already know how to perform whatever operation is being done, why are they watching the content? They can do whatever, however they want when they perform the process. I think constructive criticism is always appreciated, however most seems to be argumentative opinion. I watch another channel OTW, and he commented one time that he could give the winning lottery numbers and someone would comment negatively or give a thumbs down- great analogy.
I value contributors that don’t always get the results they expect, and have the intestinal fortitude to show it. I value learning from successes, failures and different methods or processes. Keep doing what you are doing and I will keep watching.
D M yes but some folks are hyper sensitive to even what was intended to be constructive criticism and think they are being trolled, just sayin'.
I don’t believe it’s the grease... it’s more likely debris in the grease... The scroll and work piece try to rotate the jaws when clamping... the slots on the sides of the jaws an the corresponding keys on the chuck body hold jaws in alignment... debris on these surfaces will cause or at least contribute to the problem you where having... the poor scroll means you will have inconsistent pressure on the jaws which in turn leads to inconsistent run out grinding doesn’t help this much... wear on jaw slots and “keys” will let jaws rotate ... grinding should help this by compensating for the rotation of the jaw
Only machinist really get a good grasp of what you are talking about. Been a machinist ten years myself.
Interesting theory! I'd really like to know exactly how you know how much of a grasp of what he was talking about that I got. 🤔 And more to the point, who the f$&k cares?!?!
Interesting video, thanks.
It would be great if you made a video on leveling a lathe, thank you for all your help with these videos.
Tubalcain used a vacuum cleaner to suck up the dust. He claimed it did well. Do you have enough room to get a small vacuum device near the grind?
Nice art work on the wall 😄
This is a common mistake a lot of machinists make thinking that simply grinding the jaws will align the whole mechanism ... it will not. The issue is the scroll and how accurately it’s been made and how well it stays centered in the chuck body. Thus the only way to correct this problem is to re-grind the scroll on a precision setup. grinding the jaws will only make them accurate with the diameter they were ground at. scrolls wear over time at the most used diameter just like the bed ways are most worn near the head stock.
Was thinking same thing. Scroll inconsistent.
I love what you do and the ways you do them, I hase a Jet13x40 gap bed lathe. Sign me up for align and level. This lathe has been a nightmare to get it dead nuts. I will watch for that hopefully soon. Thahnks for all you do.
Maybe you could do a cooking show.
Hello Dale Derry Sir, Which Camera DSLR you are using for shooting this Chuck grinding video .
Excellent quality grinder (Metabo) you using!
i'd love to learn how to properly align and live my lathe ! had lots of trouble doing it (probably the wrong way)
I would like to see how you align and level a lathe. I think I know what you mean by align but I would like to be sure. I also enjoy seeing how you do things like this, because you always seem to put a little different twist to it.
Lathe bed alignment is important. It will be a great video.
it's important on heavy machines, not so much lighter ones.
Depending on the size of the rings, grind might be just appropriate to the position of the jaws and scroll? Or is the variation of the the scroll insignificant?
Ideal educational video!
What type of grinding wheel did you use? It looks like you switched to a different grinding wheel before you had finished? What was the reason behind each type (if there was one)?
Thanks
This is what you call polishing a turd and is an example of why it is rarely worth the effort
Joe Pie did a good video recently on the theory of lathe leveling. Check it out. He didn't actually do any leveling though. I'm sure Dale would do a great real world leveling video; I'd watch it.
Please teach us how to align and level a lathe. Even though there are many videos on this topic I still end up with questions. The more advice on this topic the better
Great video
I would also like to see how to align and level a lathe. The American pacemaker I have has a 54" bed. I would say after 25" the carriage no longer moves because the lathe is so unlevel. So seeing a video where you explain and show how to level a lathe would help me out alot!
Yes, please, a video on leveling and aligning a lathe.
My practical experience with it is to always use the master key for tightening, it gives the most repeatable results. I never use the other keys unless I just happen to need to get it held in that position before I can rotate it and finish the tightening with the master. Not going around and hitting everykey the same saves a lot of time and these style chucks are supposed to be time savers if you have to hit every key might as well use a 4-jaw.
Please show how you level and align your lathe beds, I've watched Keith Rucker level and align his machines but seem to miss a important step or two.
Wonderful
Can different type of grease affect accuracy so dramatically? I am inclined to be skeptic on this but I am not claiming expertise, anyone could explain?
Thanks Dale
You’re right about the hammer. I’ve gone through the same problem over the decades.
As for lub, I use CHUCK-EEZ. This is made for power chucks, but works well on any chuck. It’s recommended by Kitagowa. Made in the USA. I’m not familiar with the WD 40 product, so I’m not saying anything about this being a competitor. It’s just what I use.
Also, I wish people would stop making a deal about leveling a lathe. We NEED to align the lathe, but as long as it’s not way out, being level isn’t that important.
Another great video yes on level and align a lathe
Ben, I question using outside pressure on the jaws instead of inside pressure.
Should you not use a ring on the inside and squeeze the jaws tight, then regrind?
Hey Dale that was a real "slick" video...get it? Slick? WD-40, slick? Oh never mind...
Measure thrice, cut once.
Also, a grey hair told me that just before the chuck starts to cinch, take my little hammer and lightly tap each jaw once, cinch a little and tap again, then tighten her down.
Is this good advise? Would that have helped in your situation?
I'm here because ive got some bell mouth and I'm trying to see how everyone, and I mean everyone else is doing it.
Dale, one question do you think it would help if you ground the chuck and restarted the process a second time. I'm thinking that grinding a second surface might change the first grind. Also, you pointed out the scroll was not the greatest. The clamping rings are a good idea but are you concerned that they only true up the chuck for one diameter? Thanks for listening. More videos, Please.
Damn flipflops in the shop. That’s why you were having trouble grinding that damn thing, wrong footgear. Jesus Dale! Cmon!
what grinding wheel you use?. detail please... thanks a lot
Yup do that video on aligning and leveling!
what kind of grinding stone you use? I need it be hard I guess?
I would like to see more about machine leveling. Maybe you can answer the question of when it is needed, and when it's probably not absolutely critical.
Great video, I think theoretically your methods should have worked, but we all know theory is usually far from reality. Thanks Dale.
You show that you tighten the chuck using all three holes to get precision hold.
Good quality chucks have mark on one of key slots and you are supposed to use that one for final tightening. This is how the chuck was set up in the factory.
correct, but may i add you're supposed to use the marked scroll only for precision work. tightening all scrolls even with final tightening of the marked one could increase runout.
Definitely would love to see an alignment video.
You added the ring feature based off of the old jaw geometry.
Aligning the lathe is something I would love to see
I want to see a video on how they design and cut the jaws and the scroll ring. Also how to avoid full chuck of chips. My jaws are regularly jam packed of chips, special if i am doing any type of deep boring or ID turning.
Well you could machine a tapered plug to keep the chips out (I presume you referring to the chuck bore hole getting clogged with Chips).
If the scroll wear is not consistent grinding the jaws will never truly fix it.
Thank you!
I believe the rotation of the lathe should have been reversed for the outside grind. Great video, thanks.
Sometimes how it goes, Dale. I've wanted to go back in time to undo a project but that's not how reality works. Learn and move forward. ----Aaron