The CD revolution: Part 3: which player did I choose?
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- čas přidán 22. 07. 2024
- Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
01:24 Cyrus
09:50 Rega
14:00 Pro-Ject
Links:
Cyrus CDi-XR: www.cyrusaudio.com/products/c...
Cyrus PSU-XR: www.cyrusaudio.com/products/p...
Rega Research Saturn Mk3: www.rega.co.uk/products/satur...
As always, if you would like to find out more about Pearl Acoustics and our Sibelius loudspeakers, please visit our website at:
www.pearlacoustics.com
or email us with your questions:
enquiries@pearlacoustics.com
Social media links:
/ pearlacoustics
/ pearl.acoustics - Hudba
What a great 3 part series. Looking forward to more videos! Thank you.
Thanks Dan!
Excellent video as always! I love your passion, your knowledge. Amazing. Please continue. It’s a pleasure to watch your videos and you are a gift for the HiFi community. Thank you.
Thank you Thomas, you’re very kind
I've loved your cd player videos so much, I'm not even in the market for a cd player but I've really enjoyed your articulated opinions and hands on experiences with these devices, it's a shame that so few people focus on the whole user experience in their reviews
Thank you, that’s very kind.
I feel the very same way! :-) Much preferable to watching a movie, in fact.
Lovely series of videos, as always. Thank you for your effort.
You’re very welcome. Thanks
Thank you so much for this Episode 💗
Always a pleasure to watch your new fantastique videos along with outpouring information
Have a good day 😊
Thank you, you’re very kind
Great shootout. I really liked that you went into detail about the whole user experience with each of them.
Thanks!
That was one of the most interesting reviews I've experienced.Thank you.👍👍👍
Thanks, so glad you appreciated it
Thoroughly enjoyable - fantastically researched & put together. Thank you
Thanks Martin!
Absolutely brilliant review of bespoke pieces of kit! Thank you so very much.
Thanks - glad you enjoyed it!
I am still a huge vinyl and CD guy. I don't do any streaming services. It was brought home recently when our internet service was down for over a week because of storms and upgrades. Yet I was able to keep enjoying music thank goodness to my library of music. Fortunately my power was on as well.
Hi Jim. I am with you on this, however, I do find streaming useful for experimenting with new artists and comparing classical music recordings of a given piece. Sometimes I discover things that I would not have, had I simply gone to an online record store.
I am also still invested in vinyl and CD. I have spotify because my wife and 3 sons use it probably 8-12 hours a day. It would be diffacult to own as much music as one has access to digital online.
Really excellent, an activity well beyond the reach of others, thank you for your continued efforts.
You’re very welcome! Thanks
As usual, a well presented video.
Thanks.
Thanks 🙏
Such a joy watching to your thoughtful videos that are both erudite and presented with class. Although not in the market for some things discussed, watching is always a learning experience not just the technical details but the way you analyze a subject. Looking forward to more!
On topic, last year I purchased a Denon DCD A110 SACD player - wonderful device that is beautifully crafted inside and out. Am now, a firm believer that a good disc player DOES make an important difference in audio quality.
Thank you, you’re very kind. The big plus with CD is that you control the transfer of the data from the stored medium to the DAC, whereas one can never be sure with streaming.
Very well done and interesting as usual. Very enjoyable to watch.
Thanks Don!
I bought the Pro-Ject drive a good year ago, before that I had listened to ripped CDs on a good ripping system. The sound on my NOS-DAC is worlds better than before. Thank you for this great series of videos ☺.
Thanks Thomas, you’re very welcome
Love the CD Revolution mini series, really enjoyed it 👍🏻
So pleased!
Brilliant review, I love CD players
Thanks Ricky! 🙏
Thank you for this series, it’s good to see that cd players continue to have good options. I’m still using my old Myryad, and I might even dabble in case repair if the buttons get worse. It just has served me so well, I‘d have a hard time letting it go.
You’re very welcome. Hopefully, you’ll never have to part with Myryad. Enjoy the music.
Wonderful Harley, very detailed explanations. I have twin sabre DAC’s in my portable Onkyo player. It uses twin amps and DAC’s that gives a wonderfully detailed expansive sound that is also rich and warm. I have had other brands with different DAC’s but none have offered the same immersive experience.
You’re welcome
Fantastic information Harley thanks for your help
You’re very welcome
After learning all this I will never think of a CD player the same way again 😊
😀
I never think of a CD player anymore.
@@lauralutzhoven5648 Of course. Yet you’re here. 👍
What a lovely review Harley. Your’re last words in the video ‘ enjoy the music’ is the only thing that matters. As most audio enthusiast’s we tend to forget what really counts, speaking for myself of course. In the past i’ve owned a lot of audio stuff, as most enthusiast’s have had. For the last couple of years i am very happy with my Copland csa 28 hybrid amp and Copland CDA 266 HDCD player. The loudspeakers i use are custom build by Joachim Gerhard, some lovely mini monitors based on his Anima. Still thinking of a subwoofer, but that’s another issue.
Thank you. You’re very kind. So pleased to hear you have settled on your ‘final’ set up 😉
I have heavily modified Naim CD3 , external PSU etc etc, it sound wonderful and the reason I got into CD in 2004. Loved this 3 part listening review 🙂
So glad you enjoyed it Jonathan
It's lights off for me too! Very nice video!
Thanks 😀👍
Great series that covers the revolutionary history of CD players'. Recommend for anybody interested in the history and development of CD payers. Thank you, Harley, for the time and effort produceing the brilliant CD players revolution series.
Thank you, you're very kind. Glad you enjoyed it.
I'd recommend looking for someone who has actual knowledge about the topic instead...
I love this mans investment in audio enhancement for all of us hi-fi (high end) audio fans. I remember the 70's and 80's and so I really appreciate the sharing of analog research and the separation of instruments and the education one can experience from this channel. Its therapeutic in many ways.Wish I could afford a pair of Sibelius SG's and so maybe a retirement goal.
So pleased you enjoy the channel. Best wishes to you.
Thank you Harley, top result. I have always bought British kit, it's a no brainer. I only use CD now (1990's>), never owned a seperate dac, never had a streamer. Your office system says it all for me, cool :-) My office system is all within two large oak bookcase units. CD, top loader, dac inputs, lights off; integrated amplifier with passive pre-amplifier; bookshelf speakers designed and tuned by musicians. Exposure MCX CD (2008), Exposure amp, Neat Motive SX3. (Congratulations on your wonderful 'Sibelius', will try and get a listen) Well done sir, looking forward to more.
Thank you, you’re very kind!
I have had the Pro-ject cd box rs2 plus power supply for a year it was initially paired with the dac box 2 which sounded very nice . I recently swapped the dac box 2 for an 8 year old Weiss 202 dac .The improvement in detail , bass and dynamics is very noticeable over the Dac box 2 , the Wiess 202 is a very fine headphone amp to boot ,my old HD 650s have never sounded so good .I suspect the Pro-ject cd box rs 2 with power supply would give some truly high end players a run for their money .Thank you for a thoughtful review .
Thanks for your contribution to the topic
Done. Watched the three. Very engaging triptych, as always.👏👏
Thanks!
Last year, I accidentally saw an offer and purchased an Arcam CD 192 in excellent condition. It has a dense thick sound and a deep scene. With a good CD player, you can ignore the fashion for vinyl.
But I can't completely abandon vinyl LPs, because you can find rare things there - as opposed to what is on the central shelves in record stores. Thank you for supporting our inspiration to use these things!
You’re very welcome. Thanks for your contribution to the topic
I have about 150 LPs which I listen to on my Pro-ject Debut Carbon ,as well as CDs and FLAC downloads .
None of the CD players from the first part were multi-disc players. I am so happy with my 5 CD player with its big CD trays. Perhaps electronic components were compromised to save costs, but being able to load a whole evening's music into the tray and letting it run takes duration almost to a practical limit. (Aside from compressed media and the radio). And my aging ears can get used to more imperfections than I could in the good old days. I actually have several of these multi CD players, and I am sure at least one will outlive me when they start breaking.
Thanks for your contribution to the discussion
A lot of us have had terrible experinces in the 1990's with multi-disc players over time much more so than with single player machines.
Watching you load the Pro-Ject I remembered the Micromega CD players from the 90s with the big perspex lid. They were absolutely wonderful, and great value. We sold a lot of those.
Thanks
I really enjoyed this series Harley. I always preferred my LP12 to the Marantz CD players I've had (52 mk2 & 67 mk2) but I recently git a Cambridge Audio 340c Azur and it blew me away. A very enjoyable alternative to vinyl🎶
Thanks. So glad you enjoyed it. And thanks for adding your comment to the topic.
Fantastic review Harley. It would be good if you could update us in 2 or 3 years time as to how reliable the Pro-Ject has been. Looking forward to your part 4 video!
I certainly will! You can always reach out to me in 2025!
Thanks for your videos, i found them really interesting and enjoyable; what's wonderful of this comparison is that cd players could offer hi-fi on a budget, if you can't afford expensive transport units. A good dac a cheap new transport and you're in music heaven .
Thank you for your kind words. Can only agree, these days, one can get a great sound for a rather minimal investment
Thanks for showing these players and giving us your thoughts. I'm not in the market for a player, but am intrigued by all three. I tend to prefer Wolfson DACs over ESS Sabre ones, based upon my experience with my Pioneer Elite Blu-Ray players, The BDP-09FD (Wolfson DACs) and the BDP-88FD (ESS Sabre DACs). The Wolfsons are a bit fuller and richer, with more weight to the sound, whereas the ESS may have a bit more detail. I also noticed that when I increased the upsamling on the 88FD, the bottom thinned out some to my ears. And since my setup doubles as a home theater, I prefer the fuller sound of the 09FD. Perhaps the Rega Wolfsons aren't the same as in my 09, nor the Sabres in the Cyrus and Pro-Ject as in my 88FD; I guess I'd have to hear them with familiar material. Thanks again for this video.
You’re very welcome Charles! Thanks for your comment
OMG! You have a Quad 405 in your home office! The core of my home system is a Quad 34 / Quad 405 combination fed by a Thorens TD 160 all bought new in the late 70’s / early 80’s. They still work as well as the day I bought them. A pair of your Sibelius would fit perfectly, however I have gone local with 🇨🇦Totem Sttaf’s. I thoroughly enjoy your presentations and look forward to each one. This series has me revisiting my Marantz CD-67SE’s role. Your previous turntable series reinforced my Thorens TD 160 purchase.
So glad you appreciate my videos. Thanks
Pro-ject Pre Box RS2 Digital - Dimming the display : Use button "mode" on the remote control to adjust brightness in 10 steps and display scheme: Black
background + white font and vice versa.
Absolutely… but I find that even at the lowest setting. It’s still quite bright.
Thank you for a fantastic series on the history of CD's and the evaluation of different CD players. This was one of the best presentations I have seen on this topic. Certainly a much watch for any CD enthusiast or audiophile. I would make a few comments as a non-audiophile but a simple music lover with aging ears but some experience. Firstly digital sound - CD quality is very good - it far exceeds the capability of your speakers or headphones. Those that can truly double blind a difference are a very small minority. Your part 2 subjects were obviously very skilled listeners (most are not) and they detected differences. Those differences seemed not to relate to the player but to the DAC. This would suggest the transport has minimal input but the DAC does. This would further suggest using a CD Player with an outboard DAC would be be the best choice- a transport would likely not change but a DAC may. ASR website reviews numerous DACs with performance that far exceeds human hearing so perhaps a sensible alternate to uber expensive players. So as a nonaudiophile my opinion may be questioned but I have numerous disc players - Bryston, Oppo, Sony, Technics etc as well as numerous DACS - Topping, Gustard - so a bit of experience.
Thank you very much for your kind words and for your interesting contribution to the discussion. Glad you enjoyed the series.
Finally something to get excited for on CZcams! I shall wait till I get into bed before I watch the whole video!
😀👍
@@PearlAcoustics thank you for an engrossing series! Looking forward to your next trilogy!
👍😃. Excellent video, Mr. Lovegrove! Most interesting! - Heather
Thank you Heather.
Marvelous video, well done and very informative. Please keep exploring this topic. As a CD aficionado I continue to buy CDs (every week!) and keep more several CD players on rotation in my system. I wish that you had also tested some more UK players, like the Linn Ikemi or the Meridian 508.24, as those were near the best machines ever made. Maybe next time. I wonder how they compare with the Pro-ject combo...
Thanks for your very kind appreciation. It would indeed be very interesting to hear a Linn and equivalent US top of the range.
No,please! This video is not informative,but confusing! I wish people could get education and learn about analog and digital principles!
My Musical Fidelity M6sCD has digital DAC inputs, which is a brilliant feature for a two-channel system. CD playback, TV audio via optical and 4K player audio via S/PDIF, and it still has one spare input of each, USB as well.
Absolutely
First I absolutely enjoy your video's always great content. I like how balanced your video's tend to be and your open mindset to let the chips fall where they may! Onkyo makes a very affordable CD player the 7030 for $299 it has been in production for some time now. Mine is older and uses a Wolfson DAC but I think the latest one uses AKM. When I bought it I bought it back in 2017 to keep by my bed to listen to guided meditation CD with headphones. Now it is part of my system. I got tired of purchasing used Sony Discman portables that would fail after a year of use.
Thank you for your kind words. Your Onkyo CD player sounds great value for money.
I really enjoyed this video and my reason for watching it is because I was told you comment on the Cyrus PSU XR. I use a Cyrus XR i9 amplifier which enjoys the same sonic characteristics that you remark upon regarding their XR CD player. The PSU XR is, of course, a complementary product to their amp as well. (Cyrus would have you buy a power supply with everything). My CD player is the Luxman D-03X, by the way, which is a lovely machine. I note that your verdict on the latest Cyrus power supply is that it does noticeably improve the sound, but not to a great degree. Cyrus says that their PSU-XR, SIGNIFICANTLY improves the sound of their partnered product. I guess I will have to demo it with the Cyrus amp, and my other independent sources.
Hi, thanks for your interesting comment and question. The word ‘significantly’ is a very powerful one. I personally could only use the word ‘slightly’. Whether my slightly is significant to someone else then, that’s great for them. My sound engineer heard a difference big enough to justify the additional cost for him. At the end of the day I guess that’s what it’s all about?
@@PearlAcoustics "My sound engineer heard a difference big enough to justify the additional cost for him." Perhaps your sound engineer is getting too generous a salary from you?!
P.S. Are you hiring? 🙂
@@jlaurson he’s self employed and in demand! 😀
Very nice and entertaining video!
Thank you very much!
I nostalgically recall my first CD player in the 8O's a front loading Marantz CD, built like a tank. This was the catalyst that opened the door for my love for anything digital. Today, I listen to my music through DSD512 high resolution standalone DAC with a linear power supply. 40 years on, kudos to CD's for still having a presence in the world of internet streamers, Spotify, Tidal, Deezer and et'al.
Ps. Great video from Pearl Acoustics, absolutely love your laid back approach! It will be great if you can do a Standalone DAC or DAC-Streamers video. Comparing the current cream of the crop or various budgets. I have been swayed towards China-Fi, they have some truly amazing stuff, such as Topping, SMSL, Eversolo etc (I recently upgraded from Topping E50 to Eversolo Z8). Also bring into the mix, the British contenders or European, such as Chord, Gustard, RME, Project, Cambridge, NAIM and et'al.
It'll be really interesting to hear your views and what you make of it. Anyway my 2 cents!
Thanks for your kind words Jason, and for your contribution to the discussion. I will give DAC evaluation / streamer evaluation a thought; it’s a difficult topic with many people in Videoland giving it a try!
Enjoy the music
At my +35 years with this chasing for better sound, ivé finally ended up with i call, some kind of "end-game" set-up. It took me a long time, first to understand the synergy effect in a system, the room itself, set-up and of course preferences.
I found my end-game amps for 8 years ago (Lavardin: pre/mono), with their made up speakers to follow up their line of amps (Le Contoure Stabile 160 - floorstanders).
I use to own the 1. gen of the Rega Saturn, and loved it for over a decade, as i bought it new.
In between i owned a few other brands (CD Players), and the last one was the Linn Ikemi, which was in my oppinionmy second best sounding player ever.
But that one got an error, which was to exspensive to fix. So i was out on the market again, but did already at the time know what i wanted. Becouse of my economic situation, i was looking for an used Saturn-R.
For 3 weeks ago, i found one, and OMG...did i come home again? Ohh yes, i remember the analog sounding way it plays, and the feeling of music flowing out of my speakers. But this time, i found the player to be even better, than the first one (1. gen). But that is exactly the way Rega goes about. They do NOT release a new vs. of any thing, wittout an upgrade. The only different from the Saturn-R to the new one (Saturn mk III), is the front/cabinet, who now fits the range of components.
My record player is also a Rega....It´s the P8/Apheta II combo, running through my Lehmann Black Cube SE II ref. phono stage, and the only thing i maybe would change down the line, is the riaa. And if i could afford it, i would go for the P10.....but that´s another story to tell.
Thx for the great knowledge and time,.
Peace and love from Denmark.
Thanks Thomas, you’re very kind. And thanks too for sharing your story.
Hello Harley, thank you for your experience with CD players, since I have several SACDs, I also use a Marantz SACD player, the SA30N. Its sound with SACD is significantly better than the comparable CD. As a DAC I use also an RME ADI 2DAC FS also in connection with an Audiolab 6000 CDT, you should compare this transporter with the project.
Project: Display brightness = With the "Mode" button on the remote control you can adjust the display brightness in 10 levels and change the color mode (black background/white font or white background/black font)
Hi Klaus-Peter, thanks for your comment. If I get a chance, I will certainly try the Audiolab. The Project display in my video was on its darkest setting 😉. But as I said it is not really a deal breaker
Great review, and I understand your choice this time. (I’m still puzzling over your choice of turntable.) I have an old Madrigal transport, and a newer universal player by Oppo (BDP 105D) and newer is better than older. Both sound the same through an external DAC, but the Oppo has a DAC built-in, with digital inputs and outputs. It certainly gives me more options. I just wish they would standardize the I2S / HDMI interface; I’m also seeing the AES balanced digital I/O missing on many new digital components. I get better sound though it, generally.
Thanks very kind. I too find it annoying that I2S is not standardised. In fact I am totally aligned on your comments (apart from my turntable choice, but it needs to be heard and seen to be fully appreciated) 😉
Thanks for a very interesting trio of videos. I wonder if it would be useful to compare the new CD players (or selection of) with some of the "oldies"? One would I think be supprised.
You’re welcome
🤗HARLEY ,READY FOR PART 3 💚💚💚
It’s out. It went live at 20:00 gmt+1 😀👍
@@PearlAcoustics 🤗👍
Fantastics videos ! When I sold my traditional hifi system to a modern « all in one » KEF LS60 (speakers with integrated amp, streamer and dac), I compared my REGA Saturn mk2 to my Philips CD 723 (that I secondhand bought when a was a student) and… there were no difference ! So i sold the REGA and kept the cheaper one !😅
Thanks for your compliments and also for your interesting back story.
The Black Ice is my end-game CD player. It sounds REALLY nice, especially after upgrading it with great NOS tubes, Duelund silver bypass capacitors, a Furutech IEC power inlet, and a Synergistic Research Master Fuse.
Sounds very intriguing!
Anyone who has ever had a front loader transport that fouled up will looove the Rega's manual top loading.
Indeed!
Rega is failing at cd players sorry to say. The apollo debacle the lack of support for the Planet 2000 forget Rega.
Thanks once again for such a great comparison. I really would like to hear your opinion on SACD's.
Hi, thanks for your kind appreciation. As far as SACD's are concerned, I am afraid I gave them a wide birth. I know many people rave about them but not every player can play them, the catalogue of SACD's is rather limited and I could not detect a major improvement, alongside a really good CD in a good CD player. But that is only my opinion.
@@PearlAcoustics Thank you very much for your kind response.
I have a Naim CD5X loading the CD is simplicity itself. and with a hi cap it sounds wonderful.
these things are the important elements in the discussion
I was looking for a CD transport and tried the Project which you have here. I sent it back because it wouldn't read some CD's. In the end I finished up with the Audio Analogue CD drive. This unit is not prefect either as it has no optical out and a very small screen which is difficult to read from the listening position. It also causes two class d amps that I own to hum when it is in circuit through my speakers so I cannot use these amps with it. My best transport is actually an Emotiva EC3 CDP which has none of these problems. Regarding the Rega CDP I would buy the cheaper CDP that they make which has the same mech and use it with a separate Dac and save myself some money!
Thanks Michael. What a shame you had problems with your cd transport. So far, mine has behaved perfectly
I enjoyed your 3 videos. I own a Rega Apollo. I find the same issues with the cut outs to be at odd angles. The bad thing is with the Rega remote…it has a short communication distance from the listener to the transport. I have to get closer than my sitting area to command the remote than 6-7’ (feet) from the cd. As well, why red LEDs? My Pass amp & preamp are blue…my DAC (Schiit Yggdrasil) has white back lights which are kind of universal. Im being picky but honest with my feelings here. I also thought the Cambridge Audio Cd products work & sound quite good. Anyway thanks again. This was well done.
Thanks for your comment and contribution to the topic
Spoken by a man with a true passion Harley.
While you discussed using the analogue out's in this video almost exclusively, detailing the differences in internal DAC performance. From part-2, your listeners concluded that if using a digital out from the CD player, then the test was a wash. Noting the sound characteristics of the external DAC being the defining feature.
With that in mind; if you have a DAC/Receiver that you're very happy with. Do you see any value (other than aesthetics) in big $$/€€ CD-Players/transports over a cheap blu-ray player or even a laptop/PC outputting over HDMI (ideally) or SPDIF? My transport is a Sony UBP-X700 Blu-Ray/SACD player. Simply because it was an available, modern SACD player with 4K HDR blu-ray capabilities. And with modern AVR's not having multi-channel analogue inputs, being able to send DSD 5.1 over HDMI was a 'must-have' feature.
On my (admittedly modest) system: 'Dark Side of the Moon' in 5.1 almost brings a ear to your eyes and chills to your spine. Blows the mind of everyone I show it to.
Keep up the great work and thoughtful content
Jordan
Hi Jordan, thanks for your kind comment. If it is only sound quality you are looking for, then there is no need to spend a fortune. If it’s ease of use and or a piece of ‘nice’ looking equipment, then no. 😉
Harley, as I said many times, you do an fantastic job! Thank you again!
It would be great and interesting for me if you could do a series of videos of your speakers with different amplifier do demonstrate system matching/synergy. I do own Harbeth SHL5+ speakers and I can’t stop thinking about trying your Sibelius one day…
Maybe such kind of series will help potential buyers in their decision…??? 😉
Thank you very much.
Hi Thomas, thank you so much for your kind comment. Your support is very much appreciated.
With regards making a video as you suggest, we have a big challenge here. However we do it, all you will hear is the sound of our loudspeakers through your loudspeakers and thus you will not hear what they really sound like. If you reach out to us via our website, my colleagues will try and find somewhere you can hear them live. I hope this answer does not disappoint you? Best wishes H
@@PearlAcoustics Harley, thanks for your reply. And I do understand the dilemma. I was just thinking about your great videos of the Pass Labs or SMSL VMV A1…maybe you could continue those kind of videos.
And thanks for your information to get in contact with pearl acoustics.
Best wishes, Thomas
@@thomasfi1275 you’re welcome. More video like that coming. With videos on great recordings in-between
Thanks for the 3-part on CD, Harley. Finally someone who values the format.
As to Cyrus lay-out, it always reminds me of these cheap plastic CDPs we had in the ‘90’s. They should really look into that.
The Rega would be my winner of the 3 presented.
But to be honest, give me a Yamaha CD-S2100 any day over these three. Same amount of money but so much more quality. Just my 0.02.
Yamaha CD-S2100?
@@krihanek117 My bad. Thanks!
Thanks for your kind appreciation. And thanks for your contribution to the discussion
@@PearlAcoustics You’re welcome, Harley. Been following you for quite a while now. All the while saving up for a pair of the Sibelius.
@@musiclassica 😀👍 so glad you enjoy my videos. Best wishes, H
That Philips from part 2 looked great. The other ones look like boring boxes.
Great video..I have the Mk2 version of the re ga..love its sound..one issue the remote is not so responsive..needs to be aimed and pressed just so to get the Saturn to respond.
Thanks Ramar! I didn’t have the remote problem. I know that can be annoying. Have you tried using another remote, or changing the batteries 😉. It’s always a question as if it is the infrared receiver or the remote itself.
@@PearlAcoustics yep new batteries..no improvement..btw..the internal DAC has selectable filters..I'm curious if these settings affect the sound of the Saturn when used as an ordinary cdp? I can only adjust the filters in DAC mode via the remote..or does the rega default to a specific setting as a standalone cdp?
Re: Display dimming.
The remote for Regas have a ‘Display’ button that turns the display on and off.
Indeed, thanks
Do you use I2S connection between the Project transport and the Project DAC/Pre and have you compared it to other interconnect methods? It is supposedly superior but I'd like to know if it is discernibly so.
Good question. Yes I do use the I2S. I believe I hear a difference / improvement but it is only a subtle one. I have not done any scientific comparisons. Personally I like it.
Great! I watched your 2 previous videos during these week now i have this surprise! a new video
👍😉
I have just bought the Project CD and although I am meticulous in the handling of my CD's I find it regularly and randomly skips/cuts out for a split second whilst playing. I was told by the dealer I bought it from at the time of purchase that it had done it with another customer but the replacement didn't so not really sure what is going on with Project. When I get around to it mine will be going back to be replaced.
Hi Ian, I would check with Project directly. Send them an email with the serial number. Is it the same model as mine?
I have a CYRUS cd i along with the PSXR-2. I’ve had it for 5 years now and I’m never selling it. Enough said. ❤
That’s great!
I have a Cyrus cd transport and a 8a amplifier plus psxr2 power supply. I never use them, they are in a cupboard gathering dust. Time for eBay.
As a Musical Fidelity fan, I’m surprised one of their vintage players didn’t make your list. I’m thinking of the Nu-Vista 3D or A308 models in particular, which were considered reference standard in their day by many.
I’ve been using the A3.2 with upgrades to the internals, including discreet opamps from Burson Audio. I’ll be keeping this as I’ve yet to hear a digital source to beat it, including some of the very best at Hi-Fi shows. Still can’t retrieve as much detail as my Linn turntable though.
Thanks for your comment Mark
Yes I had a Meridian 208 combo and later the M F NuVista player which sounded a bit better on certain discs but like you was poor compared to my LP set up
I’ve a separate power supply for my Naim CD player and it makes a difference
Interesting, isn’t it.
I liked your review of the CD players. Well done. However, for the combination of the Project units, you could also get a Metronome Le Player CD player. Have you looked into this CD player from France?
Hi Manfred, thanks for your kind appreciation. No, I do not know the Metronome Le Player. I will look it up. Thanks for the tip.
Fantastic three part series thank you so much I’m curious to know if you have a favorite CD player in the sub $200 range? I’m told if you can find a player with the 1541A DAC that’s the ticket. Any opinions? P.S. I’m not what I would consider an audiophile but rather a vintage stereo enthusiast. Thank you so much.
Why not buy a good blue ray instead? They have a more advanced laser and perform better than most cd players!
@@GeirRssaak Ha! 3 months later. I bought a Rotel RCD 975 and couldn’t be happier. Thank you.
Back in the 1990s I auditioned some Naim CD players - can't remember the model but it was the "half brick" one with a magnetic puck to hold the CD in place. It sounded great and was about £750 at the time. Then the sales guy said it could be upgraded with an external PS for another £700, so I had a listen to that. I was rather skeptical that a different PS could make any difference to the sound but it did! It was like listening to the sound source behind some curtains and the PS made a couple of the curtains disappear. The next model was a standalone full width £2000 player and that again removed a couple of curtains. There was a £1500 external PS for that, too, but it wasn't in stock so I didn't get a chance to here the difference, if any(!), it made. I don't understand how different power supplies can make a difference to the sound, but I definitely heard it. Great series of videos, thanks for sharing!
Thanks Steve! Indeed some things remain a mystery! Glad you enjoyed it
I have a Naim CD5X and built my own HI CAP using the Naim circuit and it DOES make a big difference.
You know, call me what you will, but I think if you have to add half a thousand bucks of external PSU to a device, it wasn't designed right.
The single most important thing is the last stage of the PSU -- the bit that takes whatever bulk rail and converts it to the DC voltage that an IC or motor requires. That last stage should be point-of-load -- as close as possible to the thing it's powering. For modern digital stuff, it might be 3.3v, or 1.8v, or less. For analog audio parts, it could be 3.3v, 5v, +/-9v, +/-12v, etc. It's usually rather low-current, low voltage.
Motors and stuff like that aren't going to be fussy. They don't care if you're using dual isolated toroidal transformers with boutique capacitors, or dirt-cheap switching supplies that barely pass safety inspection. As long as it supplies approximately the right voltage at enough amps, it's _fine._
Digital bits don't care much, either. By definition, they're switching devices, and will create noise of their own every time they change state -- thousands to millions or even billions of times a second. Heroics on the supply here is like filling your toilet tank with purified water.
The analog parts are critical, and need to be the cleanest, but at line levels, don't need much power. It needs to be stable, with as little noise and ripple as possible, and the tightest, shortest current loops possible to avoid picking up radiated noise from motors and digital stuff. The key point here is isolation -- filtering low-frequency ripple, and high-frequency noise, which are handled fairly adequately with, respectively, negative feedback and deliberate impedance between supply rails and the regulator (while making sure the average current needs are met).
How any of this is to be better served by placing the source of power in a separate box, further away, and connected via a superfluous cable, is beyond me. In fact, to overcome the technical deficit of doing that, you would need to improve the point-of-load regulation and filtering, the act of doing so making it all the less important what's upstream.
I know this verges on conspiracy talk, but it makes me wonder if the designs aren't intentionally shackled so that a difference _can_ be detected when the "optional" component is added. Especially if you have to plug it in to mains power anyway, like in the case of the Cyrus. Like..... whut? At least with an external PSU you're removing high-voltage mains from the inside of the box, and any potential inducted noise leakage. If you can't even claim that, seriously, _what is the point?_
Nonsense. All of it. It makes me skeptical that the thousands spent on the transport are even going to useful places, like over-engineered lasers that will last a lifetime under heavy use. Or does it just go to fancy boxes with pretentiously inadequate displays, and machined weights to stick on top of the disc (because a simple magnetic hub in the lid is too low-brow)?
Sorry to rain on anyone's parade. By all means, like what you like. I just strongly prefer practical engineering over showmanship, and I have my doubts that the money spent on these is being put to good use.
This video is helping me decide which cd player to buy . What is your opinion of TUBE cd players?
Hi, to be honest, I have no preference, it purely depends on the design. Tubes can sound great but they can also be very disappointing. And you can always hook a cd player up to a tube preamplifier. I had an Ayon tube CD player / preamplifier. It was very impressive but also very, very expensive! I am sorry I cannot be of much more help.
Thanks for interesting video. I collect cds so im interested.
You’re welcome
Whilst I like the latest & greatest such as with Cyrus, Pro-ject and Rega... I'd like to do this exact same review... but with older/vintage kit such as the Sony CDP-XB930 (Maybe this is where Pro-Ject got the 'puck' idea?) Philips CD Series and Maybe the Pioneer Stable Platter series - will see what I can get hold of!
Harley, great viewing... Thanks!
Thanks for your kind appreciation. It would be fantastic to hear how you get on when comparing… enjoy
Thanks Harley for a comprehensive review.
Out of the three I do really like the CD loading method on the Project, when I had seen pictures of it I wasn't sure but having seen you use it I do like it. I really dislike the Cyrus loading mechanism as its a slot loader and that bothers me as over time I feel sure that the CDs will get scratched and scuffed but I am intrigued that you didn't mention that so maybe I'm wrong?
I feel without listening to any of them I like the Project setup better....
Thanks Peter,
I didn’t mention about the potential problems you mention with the Cyrus because I am not aware of them. But I can appreciate your concern in this matter. For me, I like the simplest option, the fewest possible parts.
@@PearlAcoustics yes I like the simplicity of the Project (if thats what you are referring to) and it seems like it would be a more tactile, satisfying experience (if that makes sense)
(The Rega doesn't seem bad in that respect either)
Having owned many many cd players over the years, some real high end and some of those mentioned here, I can honestly say the best sounding players (and best for reliability) I've had the pleasure of owning are the recent generation mid upwards Denon players. With their excellent Alpha processing circuitry (which really makes red book compact disc sound so naturally real) to their terrific transport mechanisms, build and value for money, these players are the ones I won't be changing. What's more is they are true minimalist cd/sacd/DSD5.6 high resolution players with no added xtras. So you get the very best sound out of the format.
Thanks interesting…
In todays world, a quality CD players must cost around $5000 or higher.
@@bubblehead5394 I don't completely disagree with you, but that's not been my experience! Having said that I've had my two Denons heavily modified. One of the players is within the price range that you mention, has had exactly the same mods done as my cheaper player at half the price, and that player in no way sounds inferior to the dearer model. Its all about good general design in the first place and a cd player having good power supplys, circuit designs etc.
@@jcarter3562 It's a CD player not an Electrostatically Supported Gyro Navigator (ESGN) on a nuclear submarine, lmao. I too have owed a handful of high-end CD players and highly revealing systems. In the end, its mostly hogwash.
no, you must know that bluerays from good producers perform better than most cd players
I was waiting 😀
😀
Very interesting as always.
I am more than happy with my Musical Fidelity X-Ray V8 (connected to a MF XT100 amp and Triple X power supply), despite the display that is horrible.
But I like some features from the Rega and the Project and it’s that you charge the CD on the top. It’s more physical and it’s nice (I don’t like the Cyrus system.
And something that you don’t like it about the Project displays, I love it.
The CD, once is playing you loose the physical connection because you don’t see it moving like in a turntable or a reel to reel player. Therefore the information in the display is what connects you to the unit. I really would like to have those information 😜
And a question to you.
In the tests, seams that the transports sounds quite similar… it rally worth to spend so money with the CD, could not be a good choice to combine a cheaper player with a good DAC?
Thanks Vincente. Although cheaper players sound very good, I am really into owning things that are beautifully made and built to last. This is very personal and also linked to the availability of funds! The thing is music can be enjoyed on very price efficient systems
@@PearlAcoustics sure.
And if it's for the listening room, it should be nice.
Is it possible to visit the listening room?
As always enjoyed the video Harley. Observations - I lean towards a CD transport these days as I have invested in separate DAC(s). No SACD here? But we keep hearing it’s a dead format despite constant new “audiophile” SACD releases. Interesting comment on handing down CD’s - I recall all the doom and gloom re longevity of CD’s 20 years ago. Many of my CD-R’s are unplayable, but I can’t think of a commercially released CD that has an issue! I recently dug out an old Hitachi multi disc CD player DA-C70 from 90’s with Burr Brown chipset - it is still a superb sound!
Thanks, your very kind. Indeed, commercially made CD’s tend to last indefinitely
@@PearlAcoustics Well, there were two problems, early on in the world of CDs, that limited longevity. One was bronzing, which appeared esp. in old Hyperion discs - which makes sense, because (as I've just learned, reading up on it) it seems to have been caused by a faulty lacquer in a British manufacturing plant. The other was the early, well-meaning idea of keeping CDs from falling out of their spider-hold in multi-CD sets by inserting a layer of foam in between them. Seeing your CD collection for a brief second makes me assume you've had your share of those (perhaps in the Philips Mozart Edition from back when) - and if you don't catch that soon enough, the deteriorated foam will have attached itself to the top of the disc with astonishing permanence that no amount of water, detergent, and rubbing will get off. Other than that, CDs seem to last far longer than initially predicted and well possibly for generations to come. Meanwhile, good luck trying to play any other, OS-reliant digital data-format from 20 years ago.
@@jlaurson absolutely! Thanks for your very interesting contribution to the topic
Hi again Harley! I'm just going to throw this one out there - I hope maybe at some point that you'll do a series on Phono Preamplifiers 😊🙏
Good topic! Indeed, I find it interesting because they have the potential to add lots of noise, colour the sound, kill or create the soundstage, cost just a few euros or tens of thousands! 🙏
@@PearlAcoustics I've just ordered the Schitt Mani 2, yet to receive it. Apparently one of the best of the higher budget units out there. Looking forward to finding out myself what the fuss is all about. Would be very interesting to hear your opinions and comparisons. The way you present and explain is very engrossing yet relaxing. Indeed, there are a plethora of different Phono Preamplifiers out there at different budget levels.. Us hobbyists enjoy the privilege of dealing with the confusion 🥴
@@playbackvintagehifihunter9669 thanks for your kind appreciation! I do my best!
A couples of weeks ago I have bought an Audiolab 9000CDT CD transport and it surpassed my wildest expectations. It is stunningly better than my other CD transports and CD players from the digital outputs. The way it pull out information from the silver discs is amazing, with no glare, harness or fatigue.
Try one if you can :)
Thanks for your comment and contribution to the discussion. And for the tip!
Loved the serious. Im looking a cd player for my Ls 50 kef. Not sure what to go for.
I thought of the rega appollo cd player.
@@PeppaPig123-l7r The Rega should be fine. Enjoy.
Have you measured this information. Remember it's either a 1 or a 0. Where would the harshness and glare come from. It's a transport !
Very good!
Wait for the upcoming Schiit Urd transport with an excellent Unison USB-C output.
👍
I think the Pro-ject may have won because it was left switched on. I was sceptical of audiophile advice to leave a player permanently switched on until I tried it and found the difference in performance remarkable. My own ageing Arcam player doesn't start to sound its best until it's been on for about 4 days. Of course, even more of an effect can be achieved if you turn the volume down and run it on repeat, but that's a quick way to wear a player out too, as I've found to my cost in the past!
Thanks for your comment. Of course there are always risks in leaving equipment on day and night.
To Harley. Notwithstanding my comment on your second video would you add a Pro-Ject transport (without DAC) to your system since you already have a Quad CD67? Which I have, by the way. Also a Thorens TD 160B MkII which you also seem to like. Very instructive videos, thank you.
Hi Martin, I know exactly where you are coming from. The only part that cannot be fixed is the lazer. But there are always secondhand units around from which you can scramble parts. The Project transport is 2500EUR… you can buy three for that price 😉
Thanks for getting back, Harley. The CD67 is indeed wonderful. But what can you buy three of for €2500? Surely the CD67 is not worth €800? I also have the original matching preamp, control unit, power amp, all serviced by Quad. And the original CD67 controller and all manuals and boxes!
@@martinpaling1989 on EBay you can find secondhand quad cd 66’s and 67’s ususlly for around 600-700 euro, it’s the laser you need, most other parts are replaceable. Evrn the little cig wheel that drives the drawer mechanism can be purchased in line. There’s a guy who 3D prints them. I have the complete kit too but have a fully restored and modernised 405 as my power amplifier. The kit is in my office.
I think this was a great 3 part mini-series celebrating CDs/CD players. Sound quality of CDs, I feel, are not much appreciated. I have not heard these 3 players but would like to see all of the top brands to have at least one or two CD players in their catalog - one an affordable one and a second with SACD/CD playing capability. As of more recent releases, the top-loading CD player in Technics SA-C600 sounded great to me.
Thanks your kind appreciation. Indeed, I believe you’re right
I agreed with you; the Pro-Ject seems very nice. Sadly not available in the United States, though. The website says it's temporary; we'll see...
Hi Michael, I know sometimes they have a waiting list… I think they make them in batches..
@@PearlAcoustics Thank you. Incidentally, I truly enjoy your videos and waited patiently for the third part of this series. You are thorough and thoughtful but never a bore.
@@MichaelShawPhoto thank you. You’re very kind!
On the Pro-Ject players I think the remote allows you to turn off the display.
Unfortunately not on mine. Maybe on the new ones…
Great series of videos. Regarding Drives and DACs, please try Audio Analogue's AADrive and AADac. They're absolutely magnificent.
Good point, thanks!
If the best sonic performance is your goal (and the way your equipment looks is secondary to that goal), I would abandon domestic equipment completely.
Using balanced professional studio equipment and monitors is often cheaper than comparably accurate domestic kit. A 2-channel interface like the Focusrite Clarett 2i2 contains twin mono DACs and preamps that have more than ample sampling rates, dynamic range and frequency response to cope with the S/PDIF coax output (or if you want to go mad, the balanced AES3 output) of a pro transport like the Tascam CD500. Using a laptop and the Mix Control software that comes with the interface, just route the S/PDIF IN directly to “Monitor Out” for zero latency through the interface, select the source as the clock and select the correct sampling rate, and you’ve got a completely separate balanced pair (stereo LR) at the outputs. You can stay in the low noise +4dBu arena all the way through the ongoing signal chain if you want and use a pair of mono power amps (or a 2 channel amp) to drive a pair of near field studio monitors (ATC SCM7/LS3/5a or the like). Or go big and hook up a pair of active SCM25s.
Using professional audio gear gives you access to massive headroom for your speakers, typically +6dB. That gives you access to very high impedance passive speakers (11 Ohms+). Class D amps have come an awful long way and are now standard in most professional studios. No more massive transformers with their associated heat dissipation problems etc. Then there’s the software switchable sampling rates to make use of as well. And you can rack mount everything you need in a 19” 6U rack for neatness.
There’s no doubt that at the top end of the professional market you can spend the same and much more than you’d have to pay to buy domestic equipment but why would you?
There’s a lot of seriously good used professional audio gear sloshing around the market at the minute. If you have the time and the inclination to get your head into it, you can access full range, very high fidelity sound reproduction at realistic sound pressure levels in any room.
You’ll also be able to hear every example of poor recording technique in glaring detail. If you think Bonham’s squeaky pedal is annoying…you’re in for an interesting time going through your collection!
Dear Robert, thank you for your excellent contribution to the discussion!
Nice presentation ! I wonder if SACD's are even on your radar ???
Thanks for you appreciation. Sadly sacd not really due to the limited catalogue. But I get the attraction
@@PearlAcoustics Indeed. My ears can hardly tell the difference.
Nice Villa Lobos, next to the Sawallisch Ring etc. 🙂
😀
He's back! Grab the popcorn!! Harley, how do you define the word "musical"? I have my own ideas.
Hi Charles. Good question. I suppose ‘life like but with any harsh edges smoothed away’. Does that help?
Another reviewer thinks "musical" is a throw away word. My thoughts on it is, it's meant to be emotional. Or colored, but emotional might be too strong. I'm not a big fan of musicals, but when they're great it's emotional. "Colored" is a word that lends itself to "adding something." Maybe a tonal quality, but even that is different. Semantics, but what I don't like is using it then saying it is a generic word. It means something.
Yes your thoughts helped.
Not my words but .. "Musicality is the rhythm and timing that puts emotional meaning into the music."
Musicality is mostly how the brain processes audio and your emotional/endochrine reaction to it. This is helped along at the hifi end by measurably good phasing, dynamics and transients to promote rythmical cues, a degree of even order harmonics, a linear response at all frequencies but with some slight boost and attentuation at specific frequency ranges. Or as the man says... Life like but with any harsh edges smoothed away:)
All I can say is Thank god I’m a philistine and my technics sl whatever cd player seems fine to me!
👍
Great review and I love the Cyrus but I and a few friends who had them found they became very dodgy reading a CD when inserted. In fact they became a nightmare. If I could be sure they were reliable I would buy a cdt tomorrow.
Seen that mentioned on forums but apparently they’re better now
Thanks Peter, I didn’t know that.
Those Cyrus cases must be one of the longest running HiFi case styles in history? The Rega just looks and feels like an esoteric expensive bit of Hi-Fi. I think it's beautiful. Even though the Cyrus cases are of real high quality in fit and finish, they do not give the user that special feel of the Rega. Top loaders do make placement an issue. The Cyrus can be stuck anywhere.
Indeed
Going by these tests if you have an external DAC ie Audiolab M-DAC qnd use a cd transport it should sound the same even though the cd transports are very different prices.
The other scenario is which of the cd players tested would have a better DAC than the M-DAC?
Hi, thanks for your comment. ‘better’ Dac is very subjective. Some will prefer one, others another. Even if we assume that each Dac converts the digital to analogue, the difference in sound is mainly in the amplification of the audio signal within the Dac, bringing it up to the required voltage of the preamplifier it connects to.
@@PearlAcoustics Thank you for your expertise. Yes it is subjective but is there any of the tested players that gave better clarity and brought out more sounds and musical instruments widening the sound stage.
DAC’s kind of make me unsure of what they are meant to provide, enhance the sound but in what way. I’m coming across as not very bright here I feel.
@@stuartkennedy4202 no worries, these things are hard to grasp. Try and think of a Dac in two parts (this is only an analogy) the front part is like a big net collecting all the 1’s and zeros, and then laying them out in the correct sequence in perfect time interval. The second part, is a mini amplifier which amplifies the result. The front part just needs to do its job - if it does, then one is no better than another. But the little analog amplifier will have its own characteristics, and I believe it is here the big difference in sound exists between Dac’s. BUT…. Having said that there was only a tiny difference in sound between each of them. And most people cannot really hear a difference. So the message is, choose a cd player or Dac you like the look of, whose price is right, that has the right features for you and enjoy it.
For me it was the ProJect transport with its Dac / pre. But listening wise, I could have lived with any of them. Even though I detected a small preference for the Project. I have the Quad in my home office and it’s just fine, even though it’s over 30 years old!
Brilliant, perfect analogy. Thank you.
Thanks for the run down. I trust for transport alone, just the Pro-ject would be eligible as all the others have built-in DACs. Are there other, more affordable and good transports? What is your view of writing CDs to SSD hard drive and send music from computer to DAC vs. playing CD? Does CD reader quality matter when writing CD to SSD, particularly with check sum validations these days?
Hi Daniel, you’re very welcome. I think the comparison with writing to SSD is an interesting one and certainly worth investigating. I am writing to a Nas, but the process is slow and annoying when the tracks get all muddled up!
@@PearlAcoustics Not sure what you mean by "muddled up". I use CD-ripper and Roon (also have Audirvana) to play tracks/albums. All very clean and straight forward. That should be the same whether you store on NAS (implying spinning discs?) or SSD. There are arguments which is better. (USB direct or ethernet-streamer/network switch). I go from SSD (Mac mini) via USB to Holoaudio May DAC L2 then preamp/amp to Sibelius. I wonder whether going from CD transport to HA would make any difference. I can not see how that would matter, but who knows unless you try. But not too keen on spending ~$/E2.5K unless there is a good reason. to do so.
@@danielgeiger7739 I think I am doing something wrong. I am just using Windows CD rip and sometimes the tracks (especially on classical recordings) do not appear in the correct order. I guess I need to go to Roon. Indeed, spending 2500eur on anything that does not immediately offer an obvious advantage can maybe be better spent on concert tickets or something else!
@@PearlAcoustics Never had an issue with track order including classical CDs. A few double CDs are shown as two singles, which is possibly the most "annoying" thing I have found. dbpoweramp package is quite good, I think, for ripping, getting artwork, but also gives you plenty of options for file conversion etc. Basic Windows built-in CD software, hmm.
hear hear re concert tickets. Recently heard Jean Rondeau play the Goldberg variations on Harpsichord. Out of this world! Then heard Augustin Hadelich. play some solo Bach violin. Sadly, despite using a baroque bow, he slathered the dreaded vibrato as sauce all over the music, not as ornament of rank 13 according to Bach's own instructions. But hardly any trills, turns, messa di voce. Oh well. you win some, you loose some.
@@danielgeiger7739 I am just in the middle of recording some Bach solo violin sonatas with a world leading artist, I am not allowed to go into details, but indeed Bach played as it should is a wonder to behold! Best wishes. H