On my Ken Onion Blade grinding system I moved lower wheel one hole closer for more flatter grind. It would be interesting to see test repeated with lower wheel in forward position.
Thank you for showing me this system of yours. I used more or less the same system but with a Quebec product machine for sharpening using around a 2 feet long by 11/2 long sanding belts…. I went from 150grit to 320grit and finally to a thousand grit and then honed on leather….. But I wanted the Tormek 8 machine for a long time and finally I just went for it to sharpen our professional restaurant kitchen knives. Cheers,.
That goes along pretty closely to my experiences, but I haven't used a goniometer or anything. I mainly use the worksharp setup to reprofile a knife before I establish the final edge on stones, and I get much closer to the finished angle if I decrease the angle by 1 degree on the worksharp (i.e. aiming for a 17 degree per side, I'll set the worksharp to 16 degrees.) That's also with the wheels set as close to each other as possible as well as using the stiffer x-weight belts.
Great video! However, the 0.5 difference could be your manual adjustment of the angle of the Elite; your movements when sharpening, etc... The fact that all of these bits, pieces, and parts come into play and you're only 0.5 off of dead center - you and the Elite are working near perfection together.
One thing I’ll add before watching the video…this is essentially a slack belt system giving a convex edge. So angle isn’t going to be super exact just based off that. I love this setup though for getting damaged edges cleaned up.
Using firm belts with lower wheel move it one hole forward and use the firm belts and you will get a flatter grind because there is less give in firm belts when compared to regular belts.
You can get a flat grind with the regular belts. When you bring up the blade just have it to the rear of the grind area on the belt next to the rear roller.
Thank you for this test. It would be interesting if you would use an angle cube to check how close to 20 degree you are before start your sharpening session and make any minor changes needed and see if that would eliminate that small difference, which is still really impressive impressive . Thank you again for the test.
It’s an important point that I should consider. And also there is a big unreliable operator that has to move the knife from the reference plate to the blade each time… who’s to say I am not the source of the 0.5 variation
Hi there! If you had to choose between tormek and worksharp, which would you choose? I can’t decide: tormek is silent but big and whet; the worksharp is small but laud and dusty. I think the edges are similarly sharp and in my case the knives I use have steels like your F.Dick knife, so edge retention isn’t the main point. Grat Videos Bye 👋🏻
If I was starting out again I would definitely begin with the WorkSharp. It’s a very good grinder, quite flexible, and the investment is far lower to begin with. If you first start with a Tormek and then decide it’s not for you, you’ve spent quite a bit. The Work Sharp Ken Onion Elite is less (financially) risky to start with. Your edges will be razor sharp. You just have to be a bit careful of overheating the steel on the finer grits.
Why are you switching sides with every stroke? The way I learned is to build a burr, switch, build a burr again, then move to the next grit and repeat. Push the burr to either side once then go up the grits. Hoping to hear an explanation to help improve my sharpening. Thank you!
Thanks for tuning in! I switch sides per stroke in order to grind each side of the knife evenly, which ensures I keep the apex centred… Hope that helps.
When alternating sides, at some point the burr will appear - usually both sides at at similar time. When you have a proper apex then the burr will flip from one side to the other with alternate strokes. As soon as that is detected that is the moment to change grits.
At higher edge angles I would agree with you.. Doesn’t really matter if it is 20, or 22 or 24 etc… But for 15dps and below it does matter, because you start to reach the limit of what certain steels can support. For example you wouldn’t want to sharpen a basic steel to 12dps accidentally, thinking you were getting 15 or 16… Your edge would collapse on first use…
Interesting video..........Does it really matter how accurate it is. Given 100 different people you could get 100 different angles. All that matters is are you satisfied with the sharpness. There are a lot of people who worry about the exact angle to the Nth fraction of a degree. A knife is nothing more than a tool.
I agree that for many the exact angle doesn’t matter. I tend to find that people that really care about such things tend to watch CZcams videos about edge angles, and those that don’t, don’t. ;)
It doesn't look like a very good system to me. I'm going to bet that most people (including lesser professionals) will never get the angle correct using this machine. You're basically free-handing it. If you think you're going to move from the angle plate to the belt and NOT change the angle slightly, think again. If you want precise angles, get yourself a Tormek using the software, or one of the other sharpening systems where you can dial in your desired angle. If I'm going to go to all the trouble and expense, I'm going to get something that's accurate.
I fully understand where you are coming from, but I think considering all the weak points that seem to exist, it still comes out pretty well. And the speed, versus a Tormek, is a great advantage… If you are aiming for 15dps but +/-0.3 degrees is OK, then you could use a workshop and get the sharpening done in half the time.. It’s not for everyone and not for every occasion, but horses for courses ;)
That's the main problem with the blade grinder attachment , it's impossible to maintain the exact angle even when using the flat surface before lifting the blade up to sharpen. Worksharp should have come out with something that guarantees maintaining the perfect angle but have failed to do so.
Appreciate you doing this especially with the goniometer! I’m pleasantly surprised it’s such a small difference in angle
Excellent - I’m pleased you found it. I’m afraid my CZcams skills fall short of knowing how to ‘tag’ someone so you’d get an alert…
On my Ken Onion Blade grinding system I moved lower wheel one hole closer for more flatter grind. It would be interesting to see test repeated with lower wheel in forward position.
I really appreciate this video. I’ve been wondering about this, because I’m going to start my own sharpening business.
Thank you for showing me this system of yours. I used more or less the same system but with a Quebec product machine for sharpening using around a 2 feet long by 11/2 long sanding belts…. I went from 150grit to 320grit and finally to a thousand grit and then honed on leather….. But I wanted the Tormek 8 machine for a long time and finally I just went for it to sharpen our professional restaurant kitchen knives. Cheers,.
That goes along pretty closely to my experiences, but I haven't used a goniometer or anything. I mainly use the worksharp setup to reprofile a knife before I establish the final edge on stones, and I get much closer to the finished angle if I decrease the angle by 1 degree on the worksharp (i.e. aiming for a 17 degree per side, I'll set the worksharp to 16 degrees.)
That's also with the wheels set as close to each other as possible as well as using the stiffer x-weight belts.
Great video! However, the 0.5 difference could be your manual adjustment of the angle of the Elite; your movements when sharpening, etc...
The fact that all of these bits, pieces, and parts come into play and you're only 0.5 off of dead center - you and the Elite are working near perfection together.
I think it's not just the primary bevel, but also the fact that there's some slack in the belt, which effectively increases the edge angle.
Good point. 💯
One thing I’ll add before watching the video…this is essentially a slack belt system giving a convex edge. So angle isn’t going to be super exact just based off that. I love this setup though for getting damaged edges cleaned up.
I like the idea of comment before watching… In the end did the video match your expectations?
Does it really matter especially in daily use? But I appreciate the efforts of finding out. Now I know how to tinker this even more.
Nice tool bro...
Great upload brother 🤝😊
👍
Using firm belts with lower wheel move it one hole forward and use the firm belts and you will get a flatter grind because there is less give in firm belts when compared to regular belts.
You can get a flat grind with the regular belts. When you bring up the blade just have it to the rear of the grind area on the belt next to the rear roller.
I would be interested to see the same demo and measurement with a thick hunting knife with a steep primary bevel.
Nice idea - I will definitely try that and report back here…
Thank you for this test. It would be interesting if you would use an angle cube to check how close to 20 degree you are before start your sharpening session and make any minor changes needed and see if that would eliminate that small difference, which is still really impressive impressive . Thank you again for the test.
It’s an important point that I should consider. And also there is a big unreliable operator that has to move the knife from the reference plate to the blade each time… who’s to say I am not the source of the 0.5 variation
Hi there!
If you had to choose between tormek and worksharp, which would you choose?
I can’t decide: tormek is silent but big and whet; the worksharp is small but laud and dusty.
I think the edges are similarly sharp and in my case the knives I use have steels like your F.Dick knife, so edge retention isn’t the main point.
Grat Videos
Bye 👋🏻
If I was starting out again I would definitely begin with the WorkSharp. It’s a very good grinder, quite flexible, and the investment is far lower to begin with. If you first start with a Tormek and then decide it’s not for you, you’ve spent quite a bit. The Work Sharp Ken Onion Elite is less (financially) risky to start with. Your edges will be razor sharp. You just have to be a bit careful of overheating the steel on the finer grits.
Can you check the angle on a Precision adjust knife sharpener?
I haven’t got a WorkSharp PA, but i”m very interested in it. If I do get one certainly I will post a video. Thanks for watching.
Why are you switching sides with every stroke? The way I learned is to build a burr, switch, build a burr again, then move to the next grit and repeat. Push the burr to either side once then go up the grits. Hoping to hear an explanation to help improve my sharpening. Thank you!
Thanks for tuning in! I switch sides per stroke in order to grind each side of the knife evenly, which ensures I keep the apex centred… Hope that helps.
@@greatedgeltd I see. How do you know when to change grits then? Thank you for your response!
When alternating sides, at some point the burr will appear - usually both sides at at similar time. When you have a proper apex then the burr will flip from one side to the other with alternate strokes. As soon as that is detected that is the moment to change grits.
it doenst matter if it is not exacly 15 degrees or not, it matters it is the same angle on both sides!
At higher edge angles I would agree with you.. Doesn’t really matter if it is 20, or 22 or 24 etc… But for 15dps and below it does matter, because you start to reach the limit of what certain steels can support. For example you wouldn’t want to sharpen a basic steel to 12dps accidentally, thinking you were getting 15 or 16… Your edge would collapse on first use…
Interesting video..........Does it really matter how accurate it is. Given 100 different people you could get 100 different angles. All that matters is are you satisfied with the sharpness. There are a lot of people who worry about the exact angle to the Nth fraction of a degree. A knife is nothing more than a tool.
I agree that for many the exact angle doesn’t matter. I tend to find that people that really care about such things tend to watch CZcams videos about edge angles, and those that don’t, don’t. ;)
Dang. I want a jig to put my knife in, then put the set knife to the belt. holding it by hand is dumb. I might as well stick with my lansky set.
20.5 is the same as 20 in regards to knife angles.
For most applications, I would agree with you.
I mean really who cares or what does it matter if you are off by half a degree, as long as you are consistent?
Hanzhen harmonic gear , strain wave gear , robot gear , over 30 years experience ,
I guess people are running out of content and now they got to do is nitpick
How do you mean?
It doesn't look like a very good system to me. I'm going to bet that most people (including lesser professionals) will never get the angle correct using this machine. You're basically free-handing it. If you think you're going to move from the angle plate to the belt and NOT change the angle slightly, think again. If you want precise angles, get yourself a Tormek using the software, or one of the other sharpening systems where you can dial in your desired angle. If I'm going to go to all the trouble and expense, I'm going to get something that's accurate.
I fully understand where you are coming from, but I think considering all the weak points that seem to exist, it still comes out pretty well. And the speed, versus a Tormek, is a great advantage… If you are aiming for 15dps but +/-0.3 degrees is OK, then you could use a workshop and get the sharpening done in half the time.. It’s not for everyone and not for every occasion, but horses for courses ;)
That's the main problem with the blade grinder attachment , it's impossible to maintain the exact angle even when using the flat surface before lifting the blade up to sharpen. Worksharp should have come out with something that guarantees maintaining the perfect angle but have failed to do so.