Gen7 Review - Sequel to Dead of Winter
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- Enjoy our review of Gen7
Watch it Played Tutorial for Gen7 • Gen7: A Crossroads Gam...
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Juanitos
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Website - nopunincluded.com
Facebook - / nopunincluded
Twitter - Efka - / nopunincluded Elaine - / nixedpun
Instagram - / nopunincluded
BGG Review list - boardgamegeek....
Thank you for your honest review.
I just want to clear something up for the very special folks who are trying to say that you guys 'played the game wrong'.
It is, of course, possible to play a game 'wrong' by missing or not interpreting the rules correctly. But, that does not appear to be what we are seeing here (although that rule book does look legit awful).
If, on the other hand, people do not enjoy a game because the rules, visual elements, story, and whatever else does not lead them to play that way THAT IS THE FAULT OF THE GAME DEVELOPMENT, DESIGN, AND PLAYTESTING...not the players.
This is especially true for these types of very expensive campaign/legacy games that require the same play group for weeks on end. To commit to that amount of time the game in question had better be designed and playtested with that in mind.
Dammit. Two reviewers I like have now said the same thing, or close enough. Dan Thurot was also not a fan.
It's hard to put into words how much i've been looking forward to this game. The generation ship is a dream setting of mine for a board game. I even wrote and ran a LARP years ago about one. I already have the game, but now i'm less enthused about getting it on the table. Excellent review as always
You might still really like it. I've personally enjoyed a number of games Efka here has thoroughly disliked.
@@sofreshandcleanca I know, its just another thing that helps push the game down the line of things i want to put on the table. It will get played for sure.
@@benanderson46 It was about a generational ship that had malfunctioned and gone a different route. The ships AI had found a cluster of habitable planets and moons and dispatched the colonists to them. The game was set 1000 years later, with the colony ship, run by the ships AI and its artificial persons, acting like a floating UN. It was dune like, a feudal sci-fi where each of the colonized worlds had creating their own culture and mythologies, and had lost a lot of their past.
We also filmed a video series, showing the initial colony ship break down, and players were uncovered corrupted files in the archives to rebuild their past.
A lot of fun.
3 Minute Board Games we really like it, so don’t feel like all reviewers are gospel
SUSD didn't like it either, see their latest podcast
If I could never watch Efka eat soup again, I'd be okay with that
“Medieval comprehension device.” I love you for that.
I was so excited to see this review available on CZcams. I have been looking forward to Gen7 ever since it was announced. The style of the game with an ongoing campaign, the idea of secret moral-based goals and decisions, all against a background of the tense constraints and tedium of a generation ship, something which I have seen so many great science fiction writers explore (or similar, in the case of Hugh Howey's Silo series). Sign me up!
You have popped the balloon of my excitement, Efka. It was a green ballon, the colour of hope, or so I am told.
I am also highly intrigued by the theme of Comanauts so I await that review with bated breath.
As an aside - should anyone wish to read an excellent generation ship novel, I can recommend Aurora by Kim Stanley Robinson whose Mars trilogy, of course, was the inspiration for Terraforming Mars. Hugh Howey's short story Wool and the following Silo series explores some of the similar tensions but has a very different form of containment for the characters.
And you ve been also dissapointed for commanauts too havent you?As was i.
Fair review without being mean. That's what I like about you guys.
After 4 episodes in, a parallel opinion: we agree about the lack of inherent puzzle tension and the story does little to goose things. We still enjoy it, as the ship has taken on quite a life of its own and the departments have real character, ongoing squabbles, Crossroads-inflected storylines. But that's us doing a lot of roleplaying work. Only one player is bothering with their merit goals and the story has become 'you're a kisa$$ at a time of crisis.' Funny, but not urgent. Greater difficulty, bigger incentive to pursue private merit (like private character negatives if you don't promote--out of money, family moved to dangerous quarters, etc.), graphic design that helped it feel like a ship (i.e. cut allll the text on the common boards), and a central story more interested in generation ship psychology would all have vastly improved this oh-so-tantalising game.
The issue here (and I think reviews of Seafall suffered the same) is that reviews are basically binge playing (for want of a better term). With a little separation between sessions then its a different experience - and I can say this about both G7 and SF. SF in particular gets better later. G7 we have enjoyed the first 3 but there’s been at least a couple of weeks between session - and yes we do get the same 4 out 5 together at least once a month often twice. Many groups do (otherwise RPGs would not also be enjoying the same renaissance as board games. Fort all the love and respectI have for NPI (hell I was backer number 1 on the kickstarter before the last) I can see that people have different tastes and experiences. Ive seen it in reviews for SF, 7th Continent and First Martians (which I suggest revisiting as most of the issues have been fixed) ... Playing one board game a lot in a short space of time can change and jade ones views and I think this is never more obvious in an on going campaign situation.
You made a lot of assumptions about how we played this game.
I strongly agree. I love RDR2 and if I play more than an hour of it at once I feel it's the most derivative, bland cowboy cliche engine ever made. Binge playing also puts extra weight on the *written* story and not the one that's organically growing between the players--which is, I think, where the real story is supposed to be happening.
No Pun Included maybe. - I’m going by what I see on here - it’s all I can do. My only real point is experiences and tastes can vary. Doesn’t make either opinion less valid.
First Martians is another example of something I think needs revisiting a year or so on as well as the current experience is very different to the original one ..
@@justinmeadows1093 Indeed - and as i tried to state this is no way a criticism of how NPI review thing - they along with Paul G at Gaming Rules and JonGG are my first port of call for reviews and news - but there are so many hours in the day and so many many games getting released and that has to have an impact - especially on long term campaign investments - and Efkas opening comments on who has time for campaign games in 2019 is very telling.
Darn. I was excited about this one. Thanks for the great review though Efka and Elaine!
Grace in the form of Rodney Smith riding a majestic animal on the desktop is a great Easter egg. :)
Me after finishing watching the NPI review: Hmm..Okay I can see that Ekfa doesn't like this but I am intrigued. What are the plot twists? Is the ship really a ship or is it some sort of elaborate psychological test? Or...
Someone in other room: HEY! You want to play Wingspan?
Me: F*&* Gen7! Wingspan is better and cheaper!
Awesome review. Board Games sadly live down to the old adage, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
Wondering if the game is worth the £23 you can find it now in some stores
No.
This years First Martians - Chores the Board Game :(
Kristo Vaher or this year’s Seafall as someone else had mentioned elsewhere lol
Dang, I was hoping there would be a classic mid-review turnaround, but then I checked the time left on the video.
Excellent review, thanks for playing through this enough to confirm suspicions about the game! Can save money to go back now to enjoy dead of winter hehe
We've played the first 2 scenarios, and our thoughts, through just those 2, totally mirrored yours. I was really high on this after demoing it at BGG last year, and then after the second scenario, after not having too much trouble at all (we haven't failed a single critical task) because we've not worried about individual accolades, I'm pretty worried. Disappointing to hear it only got worse for you.
....and off my games buy list. Thanks for saving me the $$$ for a better game, Efka!
Great review as always NPI, honest without being cruel.
Galaxie 500!!! Dean Wareham is one of the best musicians people have never heard of #luna
The single biggest issue with this game, imo, is that it was only ever a less enjoyable, version of Troyes and, much moreso than Pandemic Legacy Season 1, the game you play in session 1 is the same as that you play in session 7 (mechanically).
Thematically, it's like reading a terrible sci-fi fan fiction, suffering from all the problems Efka stated.
another great video! Quality PLUS quantity. That's a rare thing these days.....
I dont always have the same opinion you two have on a game, specially when the negatives are not so clear. But in this review i think you fought through it and gave good examples. There is no point in doing 5 or more sessions till it should get more fun or harder like some commenters said. There are just so much good games specially for cheaper that do a better job...
Yo, whatever else about this review, Care-N is right about Keyflower. Good job AI!
SOUP.
Also... UGH NOW I WANT TO HEAR ABOUT COMANAUTS YOU *******!
.... I love your work and keep it up. No more teasers though, my heart can't handle it :)
Okay. Comanauts is not for everyone, but the people who it is for will fall head over heels for it. You'll have to wait for the rest.
There, better now?
@@NoPunIncluded Much :) Thanks!!!
There are no windows on this spaceship... So Gen7 is like the future version of Gentoo?
Saw this on sale today for $65. Thanks for saving me $65!
I have played Gen7. All of it. I did think the last game was a bit more exciting and did feel like ramping up to a conclusion. I also felt that the story choices given along the way were interesting in the way they played on standard SciFi tropes. But I agree that the mechanics of this game are not really there. Similarly to Seafall, there just wasn't a good enough game underneath it all. I did like the crossroads card branching related to the crew (which really had the potential of mining the psychology you were looking for), but in our playthrough, only one of those "storylines" was brought to a conclusion, and one of them didn't even start due to the randomness of the crossroads system.
Ah yes the personal crossroads cards. We had a similar mechanically wonky experience and the resolution didn't feel rewarding at all.
I agree, Gloomhaven is awesome.
Perhaps diving into a pool of custard is not a one off....I said GOODDAY SIR!!
Another great review! Extremely entertaining, keep the pace guys. Thanks for the awesome work
5:00 Tractors are actually really easy to drive if you can drive a car. So you probably could just jump in one and drive off.
This is valuable information.
Ouch! I had such hopes for this game. The idea is intriguing. I want to play the game it wanted to be.
A great NPI review as always
Thank you. The premise of this game really excited me but that's a hefty price to dodge this disappointment.
Oh dear, it appears that I have brought turkey. I pre-ordered Gen7 and have only played the first scenario so far, which I enjoyed. I hope I have a different opinion than you when I play future scenarios, but I suspect I won’t as I find you reviews are usually in sync with what I like in games. Well that is the risk you take by pre-ordering or kick starting games , you don’t know what your favourite reviewers’ opinions of the game will be.
5:20 A fully-grown baby elephant? Isn't that an adult elephant?
Great, and this mirrors the feeling my gaming group has. However, my gaming group also hates Gloomhaven (player elimination, restarting adventures, cooperative leader problems). This game has none of that , which makes it awesome, but the gameplay just doesn't do anything interesting.
Am I the only one that was more interested in how Efka cut his finger?
Best box fart I’ve heard in years
I literally laughed out load and woke my daughter at that Keyflower joke :D
Somehow it felt somewhat personal
Was Galaxie 500’s On Fire intentionally left in frame?
It is a role-playing game. If you play as a gamer instead of someone that wants to be promoted and have his personal goals/wants/failures, the game won't be great.
Is it Efka fault?
No.
Plaidhat have been toying with these co-operative games that are supposed to cause tensions between the players instead of being fully for the greater good games.
But relying on players as your main mechanic driver might not be good enough.
Crossroads cards, check. Crew of a generational ship, check. Removal of Dead of Winter's (clumsy) betrayer mechanism, check. Campaign game, check. This game sounds amazing! Oooof. Nevermind.
Me 2009: "Woohoo, a complex board game! So exciting!"
Me 2019: "Oh no ... another overly complex board game that take me hours to teach ..."
So this or Discovery for biggest recent disappointment?
Interstellar travel, is a fraught business. See Arthur C. Clarke's "Rendezvous with Rama" book series, in which a host of humanity and others, trek along for a generation to go beyond. Needless to say, anything that can, will go wrong; and the best of humanity can nary make a difference. That's an optimistic opinion. Mitigation of such panoply of possible outcomes makes for a narrative of say, "Schrodinger's Cat" in a space capsule...with Bees! I applaud Efka for taking the plunge and mastering the mechanics, but are any of us surprised that the outcome is a Space Saga/Opera gone horribly wrong? I am not. If it were possible to craft a story where the ends significantly surpassed it means, it would well become legendandary. Ok, is this the ongoing next challenge? Legacy scenarios are likely to continue to come along and it is just as eventual that someone will nail it, with the question being "How?" Indications are that the payoff must be solid. The twists must be comparable. And the story must be impeccable. Lastly the mechanics must machine and purport synergies and immersify satisfaction. Not too tall an order, to be sure, yet i have the notion, that if a committee of associates came together with these aspects on the whiteboard, the outcome will give us what we would be pleased engage upon. Till then, the soup kitchens are open for us impoverished and hungry. Thank you Karen.
Apart from the obvious (THANKS! I can save the money for buying the other 2000 games I'll buy :P)
Let me get this straight, the "tension" in the episodes is between doing the needed things to keep the ship going, a.k.a your job, and getting promoted for... not doing your job?
The promotion mechanic feels in play like doing "extra projects" to get noticed for doing a good job (even if your normal job suffers along the way). It's a gameplay mechanic that really accurately mirrors corporate life, IMHO.
well that's too bad but since you mentioned it I wonder: do you play gloomhaven with or without removable stickers?
Without! We'll just get another copy if we want a completely fresh start.
@@NoPunIncluded thanks bro! Love your work!
Now I want tiramisu.
I tuned out as soon as you said £90 - we're into big-box territory there and big box this is not lol
Board game writing in general has been very very disappointing. Generally, if a game relays on writing.... it leaves you feel wanting. Instead if it creates experiences with writing and scenarios (which ironically Dead of Winter could do at times). Kind of sad to hear this is a bit wanting... but maybe if it gets cheap enough I'll give it a shot. :)
...so it's a Plaid Hat game?
oooooof $15 on evil bay now
Very good video. Keep it up !
Also, are you going to review Nemesis someday?
We'll probably pass on Nemesis. There's something about Awaken Realms games that just doesn't quite gel with us. Sorry :(
@@NoPunIncluded Oh :( that's sad because I would watch you reviewing it but I can understand. Thanks for the reply
when is your top 10 of 2018 coming? Didn't even play a new game this past year. Consolidated on better titles from previous years. Has the industry laid an annual egg? I tend to think so.
thank you for this review. appreciate the honesty and openness. Soup thing....yea...that was a bit gross but funny. :)
At least you have soup!
Galaxie 500 ❤️❤️❤️
Efka now I am in physical pain I NEED to know the plot twists but I don't want to buy this, agh
It's OK. Let it go. Life will feel so free.
No Pun Included Steal a copy and run off with the booklet you say? Alright chief
Eh. Soup.
You're only 27 games in to Gloomhaven?
Yeah I know. I have this job where I have to play other non-Gloomhaven board games. Sigh. ;)
Another great review in the books. Thanks. The plot sounds at bit like it was taken from the novel Noumenon - by M. J. Lostetter. Tempting, but that price. Yikes! (at least for me)
So sad.... thanks for the warning.
So its possibly just like Ascension on Netflix.
My thoughts exactly :)
Asmodee owns Plaid Hat = $100.00 of SUCK.
Can someone just spoil hole plot of this game for me? This review got me intrigued but definitely not going to buy it.
Think of the standard generic things that happen is space. Those things happen. There, I did it for you.
Yes. But all the standard things that happen in space CAN happen, but may not, depending on choices you make. But as a result of the way the story plays on standard tropes the choices are never very easy. Do you trust the computer? Or take your chances with the Reavers? (Note that this is not an actual Gen7 choice ... but gives you an idea of what they might be).
@@NoPunIncluded I get that. I was asking more about this plot twist at the end: does alluring in review that there are no windows on this space ship means that after 7 generation we all find out that it was just simulation/trial run on earth, and we will repeat it till we get it, or what?
@@EgonCom Probably...when I saw the cover I instantly thought 'The Truman Show'. So I'm thinking simulation or reality show.
Broadly speaking, based on your early choices, you'll see one of three plots: Life, Sunshine, or 2001 A Space Odyssey.
I mean... potentially you could see all of them... but... I doubt anyone exists who had the commitment to see all three plots...
second love the videos keep up the good work
I won it in a raffle unopened for a dollar
First?
Also, thanks for the review; I really appreciate the work you guys put into these.
Sad, this game clearly had a lot of effort and potential put into it.
Also, what the flagnar was up with that intro? Talk about cringe-inducing.
10$ now🤦♂️
"Getting the same people to play the same game in 2019 seven times is about as likely as diving into a pool of custard."
I find that ridiculously depressing.
Should have titled this 1 Boy 3 Bowls. Watching that was almost too much to stomach.
Okay, that opening is making me sick to my tummy just imagining it :X
I am very proud that NPI didn’t shy away from truth (I’ve not played the game, I suppose I’m saying “your truth” but that sounds hideously Trump). Games at this price point and ambition level should be fully reviewed and it speaks volumes that you could not finish the campaign. Thank you for the heads up.
****potential spoilers*****
It sounds like you didn’t buy into the merit system, which made the gameplay really easy and boring. What you didn’t learn is that episodes 6 and 7 are near impossible to pass if you didn’t collect the merit along the way, and you didn’t learn that because you didn’t play through it all the way.
By giving up just over halfway through the campaign, it kind of feels like you didn’t give the game an honest shot. Should I take the same approach when watching your reviews?
You should take that I found this game too tedious to push through and from our perspectives, why would we want anyone else to push through it? Cool, it gets really hard at the end. It's still no good.
Also, there's some oversimplification going here. We didn't ignore the stars, we just didn't super prioritise them.
I think most customers would play one or two episodes, and then decide whether to keep going. So a review based on that decision seems fair to me.
Well my experience to this game is the complete opposite to what you experienced. Not prioritizing the stars will make the game a slog, it will also make it impossible to complete. You weren’t able to see that or come to that conclusion because you didn’t finish it.
Imagine if someone played the first episode of Pandemic Legacy, and said “it’s more or less the same as Pandemic, don’t bother”. Would you consider that a good, thorough, and fair review or not?
@@QuantumMechanic343 Base Pandemic is fun, though. I don't think a review tainted by Stockholm syndrome is much better :)
@@QuantumMechanic343 I mean, what do you think would have happened? That we would have turned around and went "no, this game is genius!" Our experience is our experience. My job is to relay that. If you had a different one - cool. More power to you. Go do your review. Tell your story. This is ours.