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How to Save the MCU? Featuring Hector Navarro!
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- čas přidán 28. 01. 2024
- Should Marvel Studios consider a reboot? DJ and Roxy are joined by Hector Navarro to answer your questions about the future of the MCU!
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Why Roxy act like she didn’t understand hectors perfect sports analogy didn’t work when she completely understood it😂
Love you, Roxy, but I'm with Hector on this one. It'd be completely unnecessary to reboot the MCU. I've never understood the logic of rebooting franchises when more movies and shows from that same IP will keep getting made anyway, not unless it was a mess from the beginning like the DCEU or the Fox Marvel movies, but most of the MCU has been good. They just need to get back to what they were doing before in their approach.
“Should we reboot the MCU?”
Hector: “Let me talk about the New England Patriots…” 😆
I'm more on the Hector side of the reboot conversation, but I totally get where Roxy & DJ are coming from. I think the barrier to entry conversation is complicated because it can vary so much from series to series. They talk about it a little bit in this discussion, but the example I've used a lot lately is One Piece. Because of how long that series has been going on; for the most part, it's hard for a lot of newcomers to jump into. However, because so many newcomers walked away from the live action with such a positive reception; there are a few people who have started watching the anime, and/or started reading the manga because of that. Obviously this was not the case for everyone, but sometimes people just need that nudge to help them take the deep dive.
I feel like Marvel missed an opportunity to use Ms. Marvel to bridge the gap between Roxy's "give new audience an on-ramp to the universe" & Hector's "maintain the continuity" points of view.
New audiences need a movie where the protagonist is introduced into the existing MCU world and the pertinent information and lore from the previous movies can be provided as simple exposition. Similar to Agent Coulson in Phase One, Everett Ross in Black Panther, Katy Chen in Shang Chi, or Tom Holland Spiderman. I think the studio should use Mutants and/or the Young Avengers to provide this kind of storytelling. Don't make the first MCU X-Men movie about Wolverine or Professor X, make it about Jubilee or Kitty Pride where they're just a normal, powerless person living in the MCU and one day their powers manifest and the audience follows their journey as they learn about the legacy heroes.
Include a scene where Hawkeye, Ant-Man, or Sam Wilson Captain America discovers a young hero and brings them to the Avengers Compound to try and bring them onto the team and as they walk through an 'in memoriam' section, give the young protagonist a line about how "I knew Tony Stark sacrificed himself to end the blip, but I didn't realize he did all of this."
Then you have both.
Always love seeing Hector show up
I think a big component being left out here with the barrier to entry being to big is the fact that everything Marvel is on Disney plus, if you want you can watch everything just like any other show, have certain characters you wanna see? They are all there all the time. If this was 25-30 years ago and we had to have physical media to understand the timeline, absolutely but it also wouldn’t have worked at that time.
They have plenty of stories to turn into movies with 100s of characters even, the notion they should “reboot” because the barrier is too dense is an odd take. Will it end at some point, I imagine so but not until they literally don’t print money.
Not gone lie Roxy chatting in this one and Dj just co-signing. To say the mcu isn’t accessible to kids is insane. Hector is right. Anyone who grew up on comics or loved superheroes never started with a part one. U see something about a character that fascinates u to the point you have to go and see all the lore and history that lies with it. That’s part of the fun. I wish i could’ve seen infinity war and then went backward and then forwards as a kid. There’s so much for everyone now to the point we get to complain about it being over saturated. That’s a privilege that roxy is too ungrateful to understand because she jumped on the train late😂. I grew up on animated movies. That was as good as it got. I’m only 23 and growing up i didn’t really have comic movies. It was just Spiderman and the x men with a continuous universe . Everything else was one offs. I would’ve killed to have 45 movies just waiting on me instead of waiting my entire life to see my favorite characters on screen
more hector!!
We love Hector!
The biggest reason I don't think it is a good idea to reboot yet is I want the stories of the legacy and minority characters to be told. I see the stories about Sam Wilson being the second Captain America, Spider-Man growing from high school to college to adulthood, or characters like the Young Avengers given their time to grow and maybe even become The Avengers.
Hector made an argument for a reboot with his sports analogy and he didn’t realize it
I think he made the perfect analogy for his take. All he was saying is that the mcu is accessible to all. They constantly provide new stories for new people entering that world while keeping the continuity to reward the long time fans
I am guessing. Iron Man is the New England Patriot (the brand), and you follow the brand, because in sport you follow the team now, and learn the history later. The ever changing player are (the actor and the production team), which kinda make Kevin Feige as Belichik.
Hector rocks!
I agree with Hector!!!!
I want a soft reboot. Have Secret Wars End in some kind of restoration of the Multiverse. Keep actors like Tom Hollands Spider-Man and Anthony Mackie as Cap, but bring back the OG Avengers or any dead characters as new young actors. I think characters like Hulk and Iron Man deserve to interact with F4 and the X-Men.
Honestly, this was one of the most interesting debates I’ve listened to in a while, but I still agree with all sides because everyone is bringing excellent points in their arguments 🎉
Keep the talk coming!
Also, I love you to death Roxy! ❤
I 💚 lalaland
the ending is perfect
That is the best Missy song IMO
Biggest glaring issue I see with Hectors point is that a reboot won't undo the previous stories they will still exist, they can still be enjoyed. The different eras of DC comics between the Crisis events all are still able to be enjoyed IF someone wants to. Rebooting the MCU would allow it to start over with more of its toys available, the mutants and FF etc so they can craft new stories they couldn't before. They can even start halfway through with some stuff the same and some different, you could have Tony be Ironman still while Steve is already retired or even dead and it's Sam or Bucky they could do ANYTHING. Rebooting isn't erasure.
Depending on what we’re talking about, rebooting *is* erasure. Example: when DC did the New52, some characters and concepts didn’t make the cut, even before that, Post-Crisis Aquaman didn’t have a son, so freeing things up does come with costs. Plus, Ironheart is now an established character, but if Tony Stark is just recast, a white male character will get even more movies and attention, most likely taking away that focus from Riri Williams and other characters like her.
@@hectorminator except the new 52 books and stories are still there I know because I have a lot of the runs in my long box just like the MCU would be still available to rewatch and enjoy on dvd or streaming. They may not be relevant to continuity but they exist and can be read and enjoyed and thus are not erased in any significant way. New stories are always being told, but by not wiping the slate clean at some point eventually you increase the restrictions or limitations on possible future stories that can be told, as well as increase the buy in cost to invest in the story. As for the point about more white males getting attention etc I as a Hispanic male not interested in diversity or inclusion but rather quality stories, I doesn't have to be Tony or Ri Ri or Steve I just want something new and good and of late have been left wanting from the MCU
@@rrods1990 I never said old stories would be “wiped out”, we can all still watch the Sam Raimi Spider-Man movies anytime. But only the MCU knew how to *build on* that existing continuity, and the continuity that came after, to create a really compelling story that only could be told by using those older stories. To cut yourself off from the impressive MCU up to this point, just because people might be confused as to what that would mean and think it would make telling certain stories easier, is a huge mistake. Telling Marvel stories is all about working within restrictions (just like every other story has) and figuring out how to use that to your advantage. Lastly, just because you don’t value fair and equal representation and believe it can only take the place of quality storytelling (which isn’t true at all), doesn’t mean it’s not something worth striving for in 2024 and beyond. Tony Stark had his story told, it’s time to move onto other characters.
I thought Roxy liked the MCU what happened? Since when did she star t disliking it?
Hector I don’t think understood what Rocky and DJ were trying to get at lol
@DJ people have the right to like what they want and you saying they're wrong is a very bullish take.
The issue with Marvel is that they are presenting characters that the audience don't really care about. Take the marvels for example. You have folks that have seen the first Captain Marvel movie, Wandavision and Ms Marvel, a show that not too many people watched. Can't even get a Blade movie out, I mean is it that hard to make a blade movie??? Shang-chi doesn't even have a sequel out even though am not interested in one at this moment. I think the audience is ready for X-men and Fantastic Four.
Ehhh, I don’t know if that’s the issue, considering the MCU’s bread and butter was making A-listers out of the C, D, F listers… aka anyone who wasn’t Spider-Man or the X-Men. For Damn sure no one in the late 2000s was asking for Iron Man, Captain America, or Thor movies. And even when the MCU became successful, no one was asking for movies about the friggin’ Guardians of the Galaxy. Marvel really hasn’t changed their formula when it comes to introducing new heroes or stories; I think the problem was the sheer volume of projects being greenlit at the same time which led to someone like Feige spreading his attention too thin, and therefore not being able to completely see how certain projects are panning out during production. Trying to apply the movie formula to TV didn’t necessarily work overall either because both mediums tell stories differently. After 15+ years of continuity, that connectivity that was once celebrated, has now become cumbersome because of the number of shows/movies that need to be kept track of. Not to mention in a post-Endgame world, these by-the-numbers “origin” or small adventure films/shows simply don’t cut it. Fans want the “endgame” now, and the Phase 1/2 vibes of Phase 4/5 don’t cut it now that fans know the game.
ROXY ATE HIM UP 52:17
47:13 @Hector I agree with you. But. To get what Roxy was saying, listen back to why you have a barrier between you and animated Avatar. You can’t go back and rewatch 1000 eps. I get what she means. There is legit a barrier there in the MCU. As much as I love it there is a big problem.
why is the massive drop in writing quality in the MCU over the last few years (also the special effects drop in quality that was supposedly"addressed by firing Alonso") being ignored in the topic about a reboot?
In my mind there are MCU movies I can recommend to non MCU people that require no extra viewing and those are great, having some that have heacy backstory and some who don't is likely the correct decision. What really needs to stop is the bad shows and movies, if the product is good, people will want to learn about the backstories but if the product is bad no amount of reboots will save it.
Also addressing it from another angle, rebooting has the problem of automatically removing a large portion of the in built audience has evidenced by the DCEU colapse after Gunn anounced the reboot. That announcement on it's own probably lost DC hundreds of millions of dollars.
Roxy is right, reboot is needed
I like Hector but I think his love for Marvel is clouding his ability to critique
Blue beetle F ?
S tier!
@@hectorminatorthanks my mistake, ment S tier? Don’t agree but to each his own i guess..
Number 1 rule to saving the MCU
1:listen to nothing Hector ever said in life like ever foreal ever
Number one take away from enjoying a lifetime of Marvel stories: “don’t be a dick.”
@@hectorminator well you shouldn’t play into your weaknesses you seem to be more of a dance off type of guy
@@Nobrakes504 and your strong suit doesn’t seem to be “media literacy”, so we’ve all got our crosses to bear.
@@hectorminator we have things in common I don’t think your CZcams footprint is getting any better
@@Nobrakes504 right, because again, your media literacy; not the best. But keep trying, I’m sure you’ll get it someday!
Don't reboot it. We don't want it back.
Turn it off and leave it off.
Not Hector talking out of his ass half the time lmao. He hasn't taken off his rose-tinted glasses for these movies, and thinks the people running the joint actually care? The folks running Marvel *Studios* could give a fuck about Marvel *Comics*. It's also egregious to assume general audience members will want to go back and watch over 10 years worth of context to watch a singular movie.
That said, I do think it's silly to reboot and only use the same characters shown in the movies when the Marvel Universe has a variety of characters yet to be shown in the MCU. The MCU could've kept going if they didn't train their audience members to have to watch every movie and expect them all to connect to one another, but maybe it should reboot at this point, but not reboot every 10 years lol.
It’s a really silly argument to say people making Marvel Studios stuff don’t care about Marvel stuff. If they didn’t, it wouldn’t be as successful as it is. You can compare them with Sony to see the difference. If you don’t like Marvel Studios’ stuff, that’s fine, but to try and argue they “aren’t real fans” is some real “they don’t know how to play with my toys” foolishness.
I think Hector may be a little too in the weeds here to have an even remotely objective take on this
Uh yeah, that’s why they asked me to come on. I’m bringing my experience with me. And I care about Marvel, it means something to me. I’m sure you can find a… scientist’s take on the Marvel Media engine and its affect on consumers but I ain’t that, lol.
Everyone's an expert 🙄
What are you mad about?
MCU doesnt need "saving". ENDgame was an ending! Complete and total reboots are always TRASH! Why did you think anyone would want to hear you argue nonsensically for an hour? Hector, football metaphor was UBER AWKWARD TRASH! And Roxy doesnt know anything about Avatar TLA? Then why have her in the convo about it???? WTF! (PS: You still wrapped up with a positive feeling tho so thx)
Honestly a lot of my thoughts throughout. Having Hector on to talk about this was a mistake. The entire time it was just him talking over Roxy and telling her she's wrong, then proceeding to compare the comic book industry to the film industry as if outsiders absorb that info the same way. I don't think a reboot is a bad idea either but not because it would be the easy way out. I'd like to see an Ultimate MCU at some point tbh.
It *can't* be saved at this point. Thanks to Disney's *DEI* there are too many unappealing and unpopular characters crowding up the MCU. 👈👈 No character with RDJ-level appeal to center it on.
MCU doesn't work as a boy brand anymore. Damage is done.
Are you arguing that the only appealing and popular characters in Marvel are white males? Be serious.
🫡 I still have faith in Kevin that he'll repair the MCU's viewership.