You're doing the lord's work. This saved me so much searching! I just wanted to know how the durn thing worked, and all the searches were just showing how to OPERATE it (because of patent laws or some other bs). Hope life is good, fren
The lock is nice when you get one that works. There seems to be a few people out there with this lock and can't get it to open. I know we have to consider human error with this type of lock. I have 2 of these locks and one works great and the other works when it wants. I put in the codes and it works try it again and keep trying for a few minutes and it will not open. So hopefully when purchasing this lock you get one that doesn't give you trouble.
Quite ingenious! Nice to see such novel mechanical ideas still being produced, without microprocessors, etc. I bought 3 of them when they first came out. They're all a bit finicky, but one of them will only open about once every 10 tries when you're doing everything right. I've got all my locks re-programmed to the same combination - just found this lock again and have tried everything. I can't trust it and will have to throw it away. The other two seem to be "loosening up" well.
In this video you seem to think that the dial moves the rotor corresponding with the direction being pushed i.e. if I push up then only the "up" rotor will move. That is not so. What actually happens is that the two perpendicular wheels also move. So if I push "up" then "left" and "right" move also but not the "down" wheel. The pins on the corners of the metal piece that sits on top of the wheels move the other two rotors.
I watched this and a couple other breakdowns of this lock and one thing I haven't figured out is... If the combination works as described, where ↑ turns the ←↑→ wheels one notch (and similar to the others) shouldn't a combination of →↓→↓ turn the wheels exactly the same as →→↓↓? Why does the order matter (yes, I tried with my own lock and they need to be in the right order). Is there another mechanism not mentioned?
@@IznbranahlGoose Each wheel relative to the direction of action has different "notches" it advances to, it advances to the next higher value from it's current state according to this chart. ↑ = 0->72->144->216->288->0 ← = 336->48->120->192->264->336 → = 312->24->96->168->240->312 For the absolute ↓ wheel that →↓→↓ is →↑→↑ action direction. So it advances to 24, then 72, then 96, and ends at 144. →→↓↓ is →→↑↑ for action direction. So it advances to 24, then 96, then 144, then ends at 216. There are many combinations that do match however, such as here (UP, RIGHT, DOWN and LEFT are the states of the 4 wheels based on absolute postions inside the lock). →↓→↓ UP: 0° RIGHT: 0° DOWN: 0° LEFT: 0° UP: 48° RIGHT: 72° DOWN: 24° LEFT: 0° UP: 48° RIGHT: 120° DOWN: 72° LEFT: 24° UP: 120° RIGHT: 144° DOWN: 96° LEFT: 24° UP: 120° RIGHT: 192° DOWN: 144° LEFT: 96° ↓↑→↓ UP: 0° RIGHT: 0° DOWN: 0° LEFT: 0° UP: 0° RIGHT: 48° DOWN: 72° LEFT: 24° UP: 72° RIGHT: 96° DOWN: 72° LEFT: 48° UP: 120° RIGHT: 144° DOWN: 96° LEFT: 48° UP: 120° RIGHT: 192° DOWN: 144° LEFT: 96°
The video close ups were great and I unlocked the speed lock that I have kept for four years! Then the small spring on the pin that I believe is relative the little plastic hammer on the left fell out... Going to end up buying a new one anyway, but your video was exactly what was needed. Thank you.
After a bit more experimentation, I believe you're right. Pretty amazing design. I narrowed down the problem with the finicky one to the up/down tumblers and was able to program it to work reliably with only l/r action. Nice heli. I was a crew chief in VN, but never worked on the Chinooks. I got a heli pilot's license and owned an old Bell 47 for awhile. BELL = "Better Expect Lotsa Labor!" Cheers.
Thanks for the zoom detail with the extra lighting! I have a lock attached to a gym bag, and I thought I was going to have to saw it off or break the bag strap. Another guy posted a similar video (he was able to get the screw off with a regular screwdriver) but his detail was lacking.
Thanks a lot! I bought a second one of these since I like the first so well, and I immediately ended up fat fingering the new code essentially throwing 12 bucks away. At least until I watched this :P These are amazing when you want a lock but don't want to turn on a light to use it (basically always on the boat since *somebody* is sleeping 23 hours out of the day). Also, I just used elbow grease and a flathead for that center screw; luckily didn't strip out.
Great video. Would like to see the lock torn completely down. Does the slide lever on the back, to change the combo, lift the wheels above the fence nose in the four positions to allow the position to be change? I have been interested in locks for a very long time> I have done locksmithing for 20 years.
That's neat. Thanks a lot for sharing. I was curious how it worked. Would you happen to know how it locks by sequence of the pattern chosen? How does the double click reset the code?
Each wheel has a limited number of permutations. After 11 movements, the wheels just get back to where they started.(In other words, you can have a 20 movement code, but there will be a shorter code that will also work).11^4=14641 possible codes. Trying one code per 10 seconds will take, in the worst case scenario, 40 hours and 40 minutes. The minimum wage here in Montreal is 9.90$/h, so that will cost you 402$. A new lock is 10$, a drill bit is 3$. So the drill is still cheaper than the math :)
If you initially reset your combo incorrectly (ie put tab up but didn't press twice to clear it before entering new combo)....try putting in old combo (default) + new combo and then try to open. I didn't read directions and messed up but this trick saved me from trashing the lock
You can use a small star bit to take out the triangle screws and ues a small precision screwdriver to take out the security screw and replace it if you want but I put mine back in after getting the lock open so I can reset the code
LOL...you are probably right about the psychological ploy. I am not sure when each set of tumblers resets and whether they index the same amound with every push in that direction. From what I remember, it seems to index (turn) every tumbler a different amount with every push regardless of the direction. That adds another layer of difficulty to the combination.
I suppose you could pull it hard enough to strip out, but the problem is you have to find a way to grip the outer case. Even though the plastic is weaker than the metal, the load distribution on the screw hole is actually really strong, so you will probably end up bending the case trying to pry it open before the screw strips out.
I think you really only have to press down once to reset it. Pressing twice is just a precaution to make sure all the dials are reset. I haven't really played with it any more than what is in this video, but my son doesn't use this lock anymore, so maybe I can take it apart again and see if I can learn more about it.
BELL...lol...I never worked on a Bell, but do remember when a Bell Jet Ranger trainer bird had maintenance issues and they had to use our hangar to fix it. It was tiny compared to what I was used to fixing. I worked on H-3s in San Diego and H-46s in Norfolk. It was a a neat experience, but I got out before I had too much fun :-)
@tocaracer06 I had to obliterate the head of the one way screw to take the lock apart (It's a mechanic's technique). Just drill enough to snap the head off the screw, otherwise you will mess up the threads (go slow). When you take the back half off, you can get the rest of the screw off with pliers. Then I just used a small machine screw of the same size to put it back together. Good luck!
That's a possibility, I don't know. It could be tricky to put just the right amount of tension on the bail and hit it hard enough to get the locking mechanism to move.
Actually the mechanism is more ingenious then you give impression of. Because when doing one move with the button actually 3 wheels is moved. That way decoding it by putting tension on the shackle is much harder than if just moving one wheel. Definitely agree its one of the better locker combination locks. Not immediate vulnerable to decoding or shimming like all to many of the other combination locks. It's honest. Not the toughest but none the less not removable without real tools breaking it.
It is unscrewed counter-clockwise, but it is an anti-tamper screw, so you have to drill the head out and then use pliers to unscrew the stem. You can leave it out, or go buy another machine screw with a regular head. Good luck :-)
@scora1000 Yeah, Master Lock didn't leave an "OOPS" method of getting back in if you mess up (besides how I did it). I think they may have done that on purpose to sell more locks. Sorry about your trouble.
I am not sure what the sequence of tumbler movements are. I didn't really pay too much attention to it. I think it really only needs one press to reset the tumblers, but I think they tell you to do it two times just to be safe.
Yeah. That's the flaw with this lock. Make no mistakes when you enter the new combination or the lock might be rendered useless. If you think you've made an error reset and enter it once again before sliding the reset lever back. Write combo on a piece of paper and be sure to follow it when entering for setting. A classic combination lock like say the S&G 8077 you can recover as long as you haven't closed the setting hole. I know it's in a different league but still would be nice with such a feature on the Speed Dial too. Perhaps it's difficult to implement...? Yeah it's not Master's invention but licensed from Knollan. They claim the scheme it's secure enough to be used for safes too (of course granted appropriate materials and construction method). But wonder the reason why there seems no safe locks using this technology. Might be because of that exact reason. Recovery of wrong set code is hard to implement. But hey at least such a lock could be opened and manually put back to start as long as you haven't closed the safe. Think I've calculated something as 50000 possible true combinations. A bit low for a government safe but more than enough for most home safes. Oh and btw. one more thing. Since you can seemingly enter any length code but it's "hashed" it means that certain series of movements can bring it closer to start than you think and while you may think your very long code is complex in reality it's just one step in one direction - but unless you recognize the pattern you'll never know and your super password suddenly is nowhere near super. That may also be part of the explanation ;) But hey for safe lock you can always up the number of possible combination by making each wheel turn less than in the padlock - minimizes the mentioned issues but of course doesn't eliminate them. Nice idea and user friendly but you need to be aware of it's nature. Ideally there should be an app to verify your chosen password doesn't have a shorter one with same hash value. The classic combination lock doesn't have those issues but it's more cumbersome to dial in the combination ;)
If I remember correctly from another video, you have got to be careful with those locks if you are trying to break into them, because there is a chance of setting what I like to call a “Null Combination/Password” on it. Basically, that means that it is locked, however there is no existing combination that can unlock it, meaning you are essentially locked out and have to break into it to fix it.
If you push hard on the central screw, it is possible to take it off without drilling ;) If you take a plate screwdriver enough small to fit flush in the two small screws, it is possible too to take them of very easily ;) So before drilling a hole in your lock, try to find some screwdrivers to test them... You will have a better result at the end if you find something ;)
If the combination is Left Right Left Right, would entering Left Left Right Right work? Technically, the wheels are all moving the same number of times.
funnyguy031 I've been puzzling over this for some time and I can't come up with an explanation. It is true that the lock is order sensitive, which means that we are missing some information about the function of this lock. If any one input performs an unchanging function on the wheels, whether multiple wheels are involved and/or wheels are rotated multiple times forwards or backwards the effect is mathematically identical to summing a set of matrices; that is to say it shouldn't matter what order you put it in. The only way I can think of that this device can properly hash the combination is if the next function performed by an input is determined in part by the current state of the wheels themselves. The function must be variable. As nobody has pointed out such a mechanism in the device I cannot explain how this is happening.
James Walker I haven't looked too much at any of the deconstructed locks, but my theory is that each direction moves multiple dials differently. Like if down moves the left one CW once and the right one CCW once, while up only moves the left dial CCW once.
funnyguy031 As I said though, no matter how the dials are moved, it's still a sum of several matrices that will end up in the same position regardless of order. The only way it can work is if the position of the dials directly influences the action that the movement takes.
I am no expert on this lock, but I think they all turn when you push the knob, just different amounts, or maybe in a different direction. I am not sure, but if say the combo is up-down-left-right, you can not open it with left-right-up-down. Hope that helps :-)
If only I had a high-tensile strength burrowing thingamajig. We have not one but two useless locks because my kid messed with the joysticks and forgot the combinations. They're not that expensive and we've purchased a couple more (different kind!) but the idea of throwing out brand new, unused things bugs me and I'd like to try to reset them.
I didnt forget the combo, its during changing code that i did it wrong and it locked forever.i was able to use a nail file and got it open once but never was able to repeat it.maybe it must not have locked completely.spent 2 hours in .i have 5 of those now only 4 working 1 locked
@@saltyshellback sadly i lack the necessary tools, but definetly may try a locksmith when i fly to the states next time.thanx for the reply!i am in the island of mauritius
Hmmm. I need to get one of these and explore. Knollan, the company that licences the design to Master Lock, claims the password length is unlimited. But the has to be a repeating pattern.
There are actually over 7000 combinations. Essentially, these are the output of a mechanical hash function from the "unlimited length combo." However, this is still quite impressive, given that without great care iterating through these could be much more time consuming than with conventional 4 digit locks with 10K combos. For the internal mechanical details, see: toool dot nl/Image:The_New_Master_Lock_Combination_Padlock_V2.0.pdf
I only have experience with the one lock in this video. As with all mechanical objects, they are subject to failure in one form or another. I am sure there are many of these locks that have seen the inside of a trash can or have become paper weights either because they fail to work, or people have forgotten the combo...lol
Thanks, but it is too late for this one...lol. I did try a small straight slot screw driver on those triangle screws, but they are designed to resist being opened with a normal screw driver, so if I was to grind anything to fit, I may as well grind a triangle bit. Not sure what you mean by pushing hard on the central screw. Ironically, my son doesn't use the lock anymore, and it just sits on his bedroom floor collecting dust....lol
nice video! ill tell you the secret......super glue your ordinary driver, i was carefull to not get glue everywhere. worked like a charm just broke it off after and put that sucker right back in there
by looking at your video i found out that there are 4096 possible combinations .. because each circle can have 1-8 positions .. and there are 4 of them so .. 8^4=4096 .. the old ones had 512 (i think) .. but if the made the old one 4 weels it will be the same as this new .. but with alot of time
@hunar. Sorry but it's actually a lot better than that. Each wheel have 15 positions making up for a total of 50.625 true combinations. Search for "Michael Huebler’s 1500iD visualization" for an interactive flash demonstration. On HIR someone states it has 7501 combinations. The 4th root of that 9.30-something so it's beyond me how he got that number... Whatever number of combinations it must be it must be something which has a nice 4th root (as there's 4 wheels).
DOH! I'm sure you will not be the last person to forget their combo...good luck. I think Master lock company did it on purpose so we have to go buy more locks....lol
![[631] Master Lock 875/975 Decoded WITHOUT ANY TOOLS !](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfDPtt-bnAI/mqdefault.jpg)
Nicely done video, this is a very ingenious design. You saved me from having to tear one apart to satisfy my curiosity.
Hello from a decade ago! I'm in the same boat lol
You're doing the lord's work. This saved me so much searching! I just wanted to know how the durn thing worked, and all the searches were just showing how to OPERATE it (because of patent laws or some other bs). Hope life is good, fren
Glad it helped 😉
The lock is nice when you get one that works. There seems to be a few people out there with this lock and can't get it to open. I know we have to consider human error with this type of lock. I have 2 of these locks and one works great and the other works when it wants. I put in the codes and it works try it again and keep trying for a few minutes and it will not open. So hopefully when purchasing this lock you get one that doesn't give you trouble.
Quite ingenious! Nice to see such novel mechanical ideas still being produced, without microprocessors, etc. I bought 3 of them when they first came out. They're all a bit finicky, but one of them will only open about once every 10 tries when you're doing everything right. I've got all my locks re-programmed to the same combination - just found this lock again and have tried everything. I can't trust it and will have to throw it away. The other two seem to be "loosening up" well.
Super interesting! Thanks for your "sacrifice". 😁
My pleasure! Thanks for stopping by!
In this video you seem to think that the dial moves the rotor corresponding with the direction being pushed i.e. if I push up then only the "up" rotor will move. That is not so. What actually happens is that the two perpendicular wheels also move. So if I push "up" then "left" and "right" move also but not the "down" wheel. The pins on the corners of the metal piece that sits on top of the wheels move the other two rotors.
HOW DARE YOU QUESTION MY SMARTNESS??? I AM A CZcams EXPERT AND KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT EVERYTHING!!! Just kidding. Thanks for the clarification.:-)
I watched this and a couple other breakdowns of this lock and one thing I haven't figured out is...
If the combination works as described, where ↑ turns the ←↑→ wheels one notch (and similar to the others) shouldn't a combination of →↓→↓ turn the wheels exactly the same as →→↓↓? Why does the order matter (yes, I tried with my own lock and they need to be in the right order). Is there another mechanism not mentioned?
By
@@IznbranahlGoose
Each wheel relative to the direction of action has different "notches" it advances to, it advances to the next higher value from it's current state according to this chart.
↑ = 0->72->144->216->288->0
← = 336->48->120->192->264->336
→ = 312->24->96->168->240->312
For the absolute ↓ wheel that →↓→↓ is →↑→↑ action direction. So it advances to 24, then 72, then 96, and ends at 144.
→→↓↓ is →→↑↑ for action direction. So it advances to 24, then 96, then 144, then ends at 216.
There are many combinations that do match however, such as here (UP, RIGHT, DOWN and LEFT are the states of the 4 wheels based on absolute postions inside the lock).
→↓→↓
UP: 0° RIGHT: 0° DOWN: 0° LEFT: 0°
UP: 48° RIGHT: 72° DOWN: 24° LEFT: 0°
UP: 48° RIGHT: 120° DOWN: 72° LEFT: 24°
UP: 120° RIGHT: 144° DOWN: 96° LEFT: 24°
UP: 120° RIGHT: 192° DOWN: 144° LEFT: 96°
↓↑→↓
UP: 0° RIGHT: 0° DOWN: 0° LEFT: 0°
UP: 0° RIGHT: 48° DOWN: 72° LEFT: 24°
UP: 72° RIGHT: 96° DOWN: 72° LEFT: 48°
UP: 120° RIGHT: 144° DOWN: 96° LEFT: 48°
UP: 120° RIGHT: 192° DOWN: 144° LEFT: 96°
The video close ups were great and I unlocked the speed lock that I have kept for four years! Then the small spring on the pin that I believe is relative the little plastic hammer on the left fell out... Going to end up buying a new one anyway, but your video was exactly what was needed. Thank you.
Glad you liked it!
After a bit more experimentation, I believe you're right. Pretty amazing design. I narrowed down the problem with the finicky one to the up/down tumblers and was able to program it to work reliably with only l/r action.
Nice heli. I was a crew chief in VN, but never worked on the Chinooks. I got a heli pilot's license and owned an old Bell 47 for awhile. BELL = "Better Expect Lotsa Labor!" Cheers.
Thanks for the zoom detail with the extra lighting! I have a lock attached to a gym bag, and I thought I was going to have to saw it off or break the bag strap. Another guy posted a similar video (he was able to get the screw off with a regular screwdriver) but his detail was lacking.
Thanks a lot! I bought a second one of these since I like the first so well, and I immediately ended up fat fingering the new code essentially throwing 12 bucks away. At least until I watched this :P These are amazing when you want a lock but don't want to turn on a light to use it (basically always on the boat since *somebody* is sleeping 23 hours out of the day). Also, I just used elbow grease and a flathead for that center screw; luckily didn't strip out.
Very informative! Thanks for sharing.
My pleasure!
Thanks, you saved me 8 bucks! I was going to break one and learn about it.
Great video. Would like to see the lock torn completely down. Does the slide lever on the back, to change the combo, lift the wheels above the fence nose in the four positions to allow the position to be change? I have been interested in locks for a very long time> I have done locksmithing for 20 years.
That's neat. Thanks a lot for sharing. I was curious how it worked. Would you happen to know how it locks by sequence of the pattern chosen? How does the double click reset the code?
Thanks for the awesome video! Great presentation. :-)
Curious question. How many times do you have to rotate the wheel before it gets back to its original position?
Each wheel has a limited number of permutations. After 11 movements, the wheels just get back to where they started.(In other words, you can have a 20 movement code, but there will be a shorter code that will also work).11^4=14641 possible codes. Trying one code per 10 seconds will take, in the worst case scenario, 40 hours and 40 minutes. The minimum wage here in Montreal is 9.90$/h, so that will cost you 402$. A new lock is 10$, a drill bit is 3$. So the drill is still cheaper than the math :)
so how many different rotations are there for each white wheel thing? How many grooves?
10 years ago, man we getting old lol
Gotta enjoy every day while you can 😁
@@saltyshellback Everyday! love life!
I had the same problem: my daughter put an 8-move combination and then forgot it. With your help I was able to open the padlock again. Thanks!!!
My pleasure! Glad you were able to salvage it :-)
If you initially reset your combo incorrectly (ie put tab up but didn't press twice to clear it before entering new combo)....try putting in old combo (default) + new combo and then try to open. I didn't read directions and messed up but this trick saved me from trashing the lock
Good to know!
Nice video man!! Also what LED light were you using to light up the lock
Great video!
Thank you for solving the mystery of Master Lock Speed Dial! I didn't know how its mechanism work, so I was scared for a time being...
So if it's just about lining up the discs are there combinations that equal each other? Like are there different ways to get the discs lined up?
I'm pretty sure there is a way, but I have not looked too deep into how the wheels moved with each push of the button in each direction.
You can use a small star bit to take out the triangle screws and ues a small precision screwdriver to take out the security screw and replace it if you want but I put mine back in after getting the lock open so I can reset the code
So the order of movements doesn't matter, just the number in each direction?
LOL...you are probably right about the psychological ploy. I am not sure when each set of tumblers resets and whether they index the same amound with every push in that direction. From what I remember, it seems to index (turn) every tumbler a different amount with every push regardless of the direction. That adds another layer of difficulty to the combination.
If you need to remove the center screw take a flat head driver a press very hard while turning, that worked for me
I suppose you could pull it hard enough to strip out, but the problem is you have to find a way to grip the outer case. Even though the plastic is weaker than the metal, the load distribution on the screw hole is actually really strong, so you will probably end up bending the case trying to pry it open before the screw strips out.
I think you really only have to press down once to reset it. Pressing twice is just a precaution to make sure all the dials are reset. I haven't really played with it any more than what is in this video, but my son doesn't use this lock anymore, so maybe I can take it apart again and see if I can learn more about it.
Good to know, Thanks!
No prison can hold all men. No lock cannot be defeated.
Cool shop too
seen this video before
watching again its amazing lock!
halojimmy7 Thanks for watching ;-)
My pleasure :-)
BELL...lol...I never worked on a Bell, but do remember when a Bell Jet Ranger trainer bird had maintenance issues and they had to use our hangar to fix it. It was tiny compared to what I was used to fixing. I worked on H-3s in San Diego and H-46s in Norfolk. It was a a neat experience, but I got out before I had too much fun :-)
mine sometimes opens and sometimes doesn't when i do the combination and the shackle presses, its unreliable :/
Whiz much way Do u unscrew the middle lock and which screw do u use can't unscrew middle!!!!
Dude you make great video
Thanks!
OK, I'll try. How can I help you?
@tocaracer06 I had to obliterate the head of the one way screw to take the lock apart (It's a mechanic's technique). Just drill enough to snap the head off the screw, otherwise you will mess up the threads (go slow). When you take the back half off, you can get the rest of the screw off with pliers. Then I just used a small machine screw of the same size to put it back together. Good luck!
Awesome Vid! :)
If you rap the right site of the the lock with a hammer would it disengage the locking mechanism briefly enough to open?
That's a possibility, I don't know. It could be tricky to put just the right amount of tension on the bail and hit it hard enough to get the locking mechanism to move.
Actually the mechanism is more ingenious then you give impression of. Because when doing one move with the button actually 3 wheels is moved. That way decoding it by putting tension on the shackle is much harder than if just moving one wheel.
Definitely agree its one of the better locker combination locks. Not immediate vulnerable to decoding or shimming like all to many of the other combination locks. It's honest. Not the toughest but none the less not removable without real tools breaking it.
It is unscrewed counter-clockwise, but it is an anti-tamper screw, so you have to drill the head out and then use pliers to unscrew the stem. You can leave it out, or go buy another machine screw with a regular head. Good luck :-)
@scora1000 Yeah, Master Lock didn't leave an "OOPS" method of getting back in if you mess up (besides how I did it). I think they may have done that on purpose to sell more locks. Sorry about your trouble.
good video
@saltyshellback i accidentally did something wrong while resetting the lock and now i cant reset or open it =(
I am not sure what the sequence of tumbler movements are. I didn't really pay too much attention to it. I think it really only needs one press to reset the tumblers, but I think they tell you to do it two times just to be safe.
I was able to change the code but I changed it back to the cod it came with and I was able to ope it but now tht I try it, it won't open
thanks
An Engineer slumming by matching wits with the makers of a $15 combination lock.
LOL...this one was only $7, but still pretty complex.
Great vid, added to my playlists. thanks for sharing. ☠
Yeah. That's the flaw with this lock. Make no mistakes when you enter the new combination or the lock might be rendered useless. If you think you've made an error reset and enter it once again before sliding the reset lever back. Write combo on a piece of paper and be sure to follow it when entering for setting.
A classic combination lock like say the S&G 8077 you can recover as long as you haven't closed the setting hole. I know it's in a different league but still would be nice with such a feature on the Speed Dial too. Perhaps it's difficult to implement...?
Yeah it's not Master's invention but licensed from Knollan. They claim the scheme it's secure enough to be used for safes too (of course granted appropriate materials and construction method). But wonder the reason why there seems no safe locks using this technology. Might be because of that exact reason. Recovery of wrong set code is hard to implement. But hey at least such a lock could be opened and manually put back to start as long as you haven't closed the safe.
Think I've calculated something as 50000 possible true combinations. A bit low for a government safe but more than enough for most home safes. Oh and btw. one more thing. Since you can seemingly enter any length code but it's "hashed" it means that certain series of movements can bring it closer to start than you think and while you may think your very long code is complex in reality it's just one step in one direction - but unless you recognize the pattern you'll never know and your super password suddenly is nowhere near super. That may also be part of the explanation ;)
But hey for safe lock you can always up the number of possible combination by making each wheel turn less than in the padlock - minimizes the mentioned issues but of course doesn't eliminate them.
Nice idea and user friendly but you need to be aware of it's nature. Ideally there should be an app to verify your chosen password doesn't have a shorter one with same hash value. The classic combination lock doesn't have those issues but it's more cumbersome to dial in the combination ;)
Wow, lots of info. Thanks!
Thank you, that solved my lock problem.
So if it’s a polymer could you just melt the insides with a blowtorch?
Probably. The lock tab is metal though, so I don't know if it will remain locked even if the plastic parts are melted.
Glad it helped! :-)
Glad it helped :-)
@hitmonval Thanks!
@dwayneguydammit Good tip! Hopefully I can remember to do that if I ever need to tear into another one...lol. Thanks!
If I remember correctly from another video, you have got to be careful with those locks if you are trying to break into them, because there is a chance of setting what I like to call a “Null Combination/Password” on it. Basically, that means that it is locked, however there is no existing combination that can unlock it, meaning you are essentially locked out and have to break into it to fix it.
I don't know, but I'll take your word for it.
If you push hard on the central screw, it is possible to take it off without drilling ;)
If you take a plate screwdriver enough small to fit flush in the two small screws, it is possible too to take them of very easily ;)
So before drilling a hole in your lock, try to find some screwdrivers to test them... You will have a better result at the end if you find something ;)
@Komebackid510 Thanks!
Thanks :-)
Definitely a new "mouse trap" as far as combe locks go
@ACCSESS247 Thanks.
If the combination is Left Right Left Right, would entering Left Left Right Right work? Technically, the wheels are all moving the same number of times.
Jonah Liu Not sure. You could try if you had the same lock.
Nope.tried it.
funnyguy031 I've been puzzling over this for some time and I can't come up with an explanation. It is true that the lock is order sensitive, which means that we are missing some information about the function of this lock.
If any one input performs an unchanging function on the wheels, whether multiple wheels are involved and/or wheels are rotated multiple times forwards or backwards the effect is mathematically identical to summing a set of matrices; that is to say it shouldn't matter what order you put it in. The only way I can think of that this device can properly hash the combination is if the next function performed by an input is determined in part by the current state of the wheels themselves. The function must be variable.
As nobody has pointed out such a mechanism in the device I cannot explain how this is happening.
James Walker I haven't looked too much at any of the deconstructed locks, but my theory is that each direction moves multiple dials differently.
Like if down moves the left one CW once and the right one CCW once, while up only moves the left dial CCW once.
funnyguy031 As I said though, no matter how the dials are moved, it's still a sum of several matrices that will end up in the same position regardless of order. The only way it can work is if the position of the dials directly influences the action that the movement takes.
OK thanks
I am no expert on this lock, but I think they all turn when you push the knob, just different amounts, or maybe in a different direction. I am not sure, but if say the combo is up-down-left-right, you can not open it with left-right-up-down. Hope that helps :-)
If only I had a high-tensile strength burrowing thingamajig. We have not one but two useless locks because my kid messed with the joysticks and forgot the combinations. They're not that expensive and we've purchased a couple more (different kind!) but the idea of throwing out brand new, unused things bugs me and I'd like to try to reset them.
You could use them for target practice....lol You can buy hardened steel burrs from amazon for about $10. You can get a whole set for $13.
i need help
you this video help
me
how you break the screw taht is in the middle
Mauricio Flores I drilled it out.
@AmalgmousProxy Glad my cheapness, helped cure your curiosity :-)
Man, that sucks!...Time to get the drill out...lol. Good luck
ok thanks
I didnt forget the combo, its during changing code that i did it wrong and it locked forever.i was able to use a nail file and got it open once but never was able to repeat it.maybe it must not have locked completely.spent 2 hours in .i have 5 of those now only 4 working 1 locked
Try taking it apart and resetting the tumblers ;-)
@@saltyshellback sadly i lack the necessary tools, but definetly may try a locksmith when i fly to the states next time.thanx for the reply!i am in the island of mauritius
It was just a cheap $3 light I got from an auto parts store. They take the 3 AAA batteries and have 5 or 6 LEDs.
@mintyfresh9080 I was too cheap. Those things are about $7, and I wasn't about to throw it away.
@saltyshellback I understand.
Hmmm. I need to get one of these and explore. Knollan, the company that licences the design to Master Lock, claims the password length is unlimited. But the has to be a repeating pattern.
Aadil Shah Good to know. Thanks!
these appear vastly superior to the old style locks
undeadpresident definitely less “hackable” unless you have a hammer.
LOL...Glad I could save you money :-)
A hammer is the master key to many locks!
There are actually over 7000 combinations. Essentially, these are the output of a mechanical hash function from the "unlimited length combo." However, this is still quite impressive, given that without great care iterating through these could be much more time consuming than with conventional 4 digit locks with 10K combos. For the internal mechanical details, see: toool dot nl/Image:The_New_Master_Lock_Combination_Padlock_V2.0.pdf
I only have experience with the one lock in this video. As with all mechanical objects, they are subject to failure in one form or another. I am sure there are many of these locks that have seen the inside of a trash can or have become paper weights either because they fail to work, or people have forgotten the combo...lol
Yup, the auto focus is a pain, but the manual focus on this thing is even harder to get along with...lol
@mynameisjavin Thanks!
You're welcome. Sorry for the late reply :-)
Thanks, but it is too late for this one...lol. I did try a small straight slot screw driver on those triangle screws, but they are designed to resist being opened with a normal screw driver, so if I was to grind anything to fit, I may as well grind a triangle bit. Not sure what you mean by pushing hard on the central screw. Ironically, my son doesn't use the lock anymore, and it just sits on his bedroom floor collecting dust....lol
Thanks. I think the mechanism is really cool, but there is no room for error if you forget the combo...lol
Because the metal cogs are pushing against the plastic wheels couldn't you just pull it hard enough and the plastic would give?
Thanks for the very interesting video. If I may make a suggestion: next time, turn off the auto-focus on the camera.
nice video! ill tell you the secret......super glue your ordinary driver, i was carefull to not get glue everywhere. worked like a charm just broke it off after and put that sucker right back in there
So really the "combination of any length" just looks at the last four digits in the series, right? More of a psychological ploy.
by looking at your video i found out that there are 4096 possible combinations .. because each circle can have 1-8 positions .. and there are 4 of them so .. 8^4=4096 .. the old ones had 512 (i think) .. but if the made the old one 4 weels it will be the same as this new .. but with alot of time
+hunar omer I will take your word for it...lol
@hunar. Sorry but it's actually a lot better than that. Each wheel have 15 positions making up for a total of 50.625 true combinations.
Search for "Michael Huebler’s 1500iD visualization" for an interactive flash demonstration.
On HIR someone states it has 7501 combinations. The 4th root of that 9.30-something so it's beyond me how he got that number... Whatever number of combinations it must be it must be something which has a nice 4th root (as there's 4 wheels).
HifiCentret
SCIENCE!
My pleasure! I would have broken one open just to see what was inside even if my son didn't lock himself out...lol
DOH! I'm sure you will not be the last person to forget their combo...good luck. I think Master lock company did it on purpose so we have to go buy more locks....lol
Sorry, I don't know much more about this lock than what i showed on the video :-(