The EASY Fix to F1's Carbon Livery Problem...
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- čas přidán 7. 06. 2024
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As F1's car launch season wraps up for 2024, we're seeing an alarming trend of the cars being mostly carbon rather than sporting proper liveries. Is this actually a problem though? And if it is, how do we fix it? Well we may only need to look back to 2017 for the answer...
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you sold your soul
3rd attempt of asking will to run naked around Monaco like he promised
Lol I do remember him promising to do this but I cant remember why can you remind me please 😅
@@Cruzblack781 hamilton to ferrari
@@Cruzblack781wasn't it him thinking Hamilton to Ferrari wouldn't happen?
For a sport so focused on team identity that they don't allow car within the same team to have differing liveries, F1 sure seems okay with blurring the difference between teams
Alpine has really done it with 1st showing the F1 car next to the fully painted WEC car, then revealing a special livery which is 5% pink
4:08 Quick correction on that part. Mercedes used to have white cars and stripped them off their paint to save weight thus revealing the pure metal under it.
At Least Williams will always be visible due to that genius Duracell on the intake! Whoever came up with that in the past is deserving of a big fat raise!!!!!!!!!! Go RedBull!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So glad people are addressing this. It is getting absolutely ridiculous. As a graphic artist, it has been painful watching the creativity of the liveries go steadily downhill.
Which one to run over Helmut Marko just killed me 😂😂😂😂😂
F1 could probably require all surfaces or most surfaces be painted with at minimum clear coat and specify a minimum paint thickness since there are tools to measure such things
This is some bureaucratic bullshit
How would that address the issue Will raises here? He points out that allowing the teams to remove paint (the color that is something other than the black carbon fiber) is diluting the team brand recognition for newer fans and making it harder for everyone to identify who is who. Your proposal is to just....put a clear coat on the carbon fiber....which would still show the black instead of something more identifiable for each team? You end up with the exact same problem Will was just talking about while adding weight to the car.
Right as I finished my first comment, it hit me what I think you were going for here. You're proposing that, if they are required to put clear coat on a spot, they'll just decide they might as well paint it in their colors instead? That makes more sense, but that idea doesn't really come through in your original suggestion.
@@aethyr6776If they have to add weight they aren't gonna spend it on a clear coat. They're going to use it for branding. That's the solution. If they spend it on clear coat they're idiots.
@@ravenwing199 Yeah, I realized that right after I posted the first comment and added a second one saying the exact same thing.
FINALLY people are starting to be pissed at this! It has been bothering me since last year and people were praising last year’s liveries! I thought for sure that we would just allow F1 teams to make their cars all carbon with just sponsors eventually but now more people want there to be requirements about where there needs to be paint, AS WELLL AS a minimum for it. Which I would wholeheartedly support. Alpine’s livery could have been the best of the year but because of the weight saving it is now the worst because it doesn’t even resemble a regular Alpine livery! I do NOT picture them as mainly black.
Requiring a set weight of paint to be applied is the easiest.
I’m not 100% sure but I doubt they use paint. Race cars usually use wraps
Boohoo get over it
a team should register a colour as part of their team identity and it should be mandated that a majority of the car must be painted that colour
The FIA needs to do something about more paint on the cars. No one wants to see 20 different black cars.
Weight saving is good, but not at cost of a livery, no matter how good or bad it may be. On the other hand, I am all for reducing the weight limit. Given the cost cap, I would go as far as to suggest to remove the minimum weight completely. As long as you pass the crash test, you’re fine
Maybe i'm the one thinking it wrong but....... I'm pretty sure the issue here it's that every team wants to be as light as possible and if it means using less paint then they don't care about it. I see it this way, if Ferrari can paint their car almost entirely then that could mean their car is "light enough". But imagine tomorrow they remove the limits, then Ferrari in search for more performance against a +1s faster RB, will resort to anything at their disposal to accomplish that goal, even removing almost any trace of weight possible, and thus there goes the paint.
The only solution i can think of for this dilemma is to just ban F1 cars to have unpainted carbon fiber on their liveries. That would force the teams to paint the cars and if the design of any car has too much space available to paint then that's not our problem. Also that would mean they have to use actual black and not carbon fiber if they want a black colored car which negates the weight advantage
@@samuelromero4696 I agree. I guess there should be a rule to paint at least some areas of the car. I don’t care if the upside of the underfloor is not painted, but the wings, nose and sidepods should be. But then such a rule would allow for no weight limit again, without liveries disappearing
For the life of me i don't get why not one of the teams would have at least used colored carbon fiber... it is definitely available in colors other than black... you could add less than 100g of color shifting mica into the resin and have an absolute banger
This. A brilliant idea that works better than the most.
Yeah that confused me also, it's completely doable, although the result might turn out more matte or perhaps they can't get the same saturation. At least demonstrate why it wouldn't work as a paint scheme, because its physically possible.
You need to add materials to the carbon fiber to change the colour, making the carbon fiber itself heavier.@@ewetoo
Fuck me that Horner joke in the Combo Cleaner ad💀
2017-2020 Renault shows how black livery can be done right. Most of the car is black but they painted the nose, chassis, and stripe alongside the bodywork yellow. So if you see them on frontal shots they're still yellow
my first idea was to add a minimum paint weight within the weight regs, and that a certain % of the car has to be painted
Unfortunately I think the minimum weight of paint suggestion falls under something Will brought up. I don't think there is a way to figure out the weight of just the paint, at least not one that would be worth the expense to implement. The % of the car having to be painted is a bit more workable, but still much more trouble than it is probably worth. You'd have techs having to measure the surface area of the whole car and then just the area covered by paint. I'm sure there are programs you could use to do that with digital images, but that would probably be a pain to enforce all season. Much simpler to just require parts of the car to be painted.
@@aethyr6776 The car would be weighed before it was painted and then after, calculating the difference within a 10-kg limit and inserting ballast for the remainder; and the same would apply to new parts introduced during the season. It would be simpler than digital scanning and would not compress the freedoms of teams any more than current regulations already do
@@pe-peron8441 You think keeping track of the weight of the paint would be simpler? I have to disagree, as that sounds like a nightmare to implement. The teams would have to be stripping and reapplying the paint at each race if the FIA wanted to actually enforce it, since that would be the only way the FIA would be able to maintain control over the cars for verifiable weights. The teams wouldn’t be getting any work done for getting the car ready for the race.
But beyond the impracticality of how the FIA would even be able to consistently enforce a paint weight, why would you even set a required weight for just paint? They already enforce a weight for the car. Enforcing a weight of paint isn’t what they could care about in the context of this video so much as area of surface coverage.
The frequency that the german sky f1 presenters mistook cars (especially merc and aston) last year already said enough about the lack of color-schemes (yes, ralf schumacher is also pretty slow, making the problem worse)
That Helmet Marko joke is absolutely hilarious. Keep up the great work Will!
I think they should go further. Let teams apply for a "base color" and don't allow duplicates. Then 60% of the car has to be that color. Let teams pick based on their entry into F1.
I understand why the cars had to get heavier, but why did they have to get larger? Especially in this era of street circuits with limited overtaking opportunity. Cars are so big now that you can defend pretty much most of the time simply by taking the racing line.
The rules could definitely force teams to cut back on size, but the main reason engineers make the car bigger is because more car, more aero bits. Especially important for ground effect. The longer your tunnel, the more air you can manipulate.
I think it’s fairly simple, allocate a minimum paint by weight requirement and set this at a level where 80% of the car is painted, how you measure this is a different problem admittedly but I think it can be done
Just force teams to paint the whole car, simple as that allow only 5 to 10% carbon or something
i think more like the floor can be carbon and the rest is 10-15% carbon
@@asteriodsoda that would make more sense, good observation
Any surface that is not exactly parallel to the ground should be painted. Even if it makes an angle of 1° with the ground, it needs paint.
That should solve the issue imho
It is good to hear you speak a lot better then the last video Will.
Your voice sounds a lot better, good that you are back
nice to hear you got over your sniffles
first of all im glad you start getting better.
as a person who's favourite colour is black this has been one of the best livery seasons for me, although my team mercedes launched a car that has an intentity crisis
Vinyl wrap for a road car typically weighs around 5 to 6 lbs, so completely cover a much larger surface area than an F1 car. Even if they went with 50% coverage and commissioned 3M to make a thinner, lighter vinyl for F1, we're talking a couple pounds.
FIA should make it mandatory to cover 50% with something. The onboard cameras weigh more than that.
Was that a streaming glitch or an editing mistake near the beginning?
This is where Indy really shines imo, lots of great full body color schemes
a tiny correction at 3:39 - Teams aren't trying to get legal, as they are all above minimum allowed weight. What they are trying to do is to get weight of their cars as near as possible to that minimum allowed because of performance gains. Ideally they'd want to make them even lighter than minimum as that would allow them to place weights to get back up to the minimum allowed weight. And those weights can be placed strategically so that it improves cars performance.
Mandate a minimum of eg. 7kgs of paint weight, not the areas.
How much weight has been added due to safety? The halo, roll hoop, fuel tank, additional reinforcement for the chassis. Let’s be charitable and say that added 90kg. That means without the safety advancements cars would weigh 710kg. What happened to that 600kg 90s/ 2000s cars?
As for the liveries, they should mandate a 80% paint minimum. Carbon fiber accents are cool when they’re just that, accents, not the main color scheme. As for the car launches, they should be done the week of pre season testing. Teams will be more honest with their cars as that’s not enough time for teams to copy any innovations fast enough without placing themselves at a disadvantage under the current cost cap regs.
Most likely the rules of the old days specified the weight *excluding* the driver, so they never have been much less than ~600kg including one.
If F1 is really worried about too much unpainted carbon fibre, they should just mandate a percentage of the exposed surface that have to be painted
RIP to the Nashville street circuit btw (atleast for now)
😭😭😭
I think if a team is searching for being up to 1sec faster over 70 laps by decreasing the amount of vinyl on the car I really think the team has bigger problems. When you look at the top 3 or 4 teams last year they interesting enough have the least bare carbon body work. I would argue that Red Bull and Ferrari were the teams that had the most vinyl on the car and they did alright. Who ever can come up with either coloured carbon fibre or a paint or vinyl that is highly aerodynamic will be a rich man or woman.
Wait till the f1 teams work out you can 'make' coloured carbon fibre! ...
Whats the point then ?
Glad to hear you sound less sick
I’m getting there!
I liked the comments about long time fans vs. new fans. While I don't like the carbon fiber look and everybody starts to look the same, I can tell the cars (and usually which driver just by how much they are crashing) no matter how little paint there is. But I never really thought how useless it seems to a new fan, they literally have no idea what's going on or which car is which.
And don't even get me started that the race order graphics only having 3 letters for the driver, team, car and look-alike livery. So for first 3 years you watch, you have no idea what HAM, LAW, GAS, RUS or ZHO is except maybe a new TV show about a overweigh lawyer who drives cars in an aggressive Eastern European country and . . . what the hell's a ZHO!
Increasing the weight limit means theyll increase the components? Bruh f1 teams would make the whole car 20g and meet the MINIMUM weight limit with balast if they could
Hey, isn't this fucking simple? Just demand that there has to be a certain amount of paint in the car
And if you want to take advantage of this to close down the field a little, just require less paint from the teams whose the car weighs more, and more of the ones that are lighter (not too much difference, because this is still a car manufacturer series)
You can demand a lot of things, the problem is enforcing the rules. FIA apparently doesn't have resources to check all the planks and fuel in all of the cars every race and have to pick a random one. This results in things like Austin last year, where Lewis and Charles were checked and disqualified while even their teammates were not (I think).
Make a BoP system but for paint so we can call it Balance of Paint.
Mandate paint on the front and rear wing, nose cone engine cover, sidepods an hood. Done. The livery designers would be cut loose to do whatever the f### they want and it would be great
"It is not a problem!" - see, how easy it was ...
Its how the teams pull it off tho
The alpine car looks terrible without paint and the redbull car looks terrible with paint
Meanwhile the Mercedes car looks great
Ad ends at 2:29 for anyone Interested
I'm just dying to see a return of Rich Energy to the liveries, but I also like to watch the world burn. :D
There’s no way RB arent suing after those Horner and Helmut jokes
Worth it.
Way less fuel and fuel refills during pit stops
I love keeping my phrone safe from malware
The real problem is cost cap and not weight
I always wondered if it was painted or they are using Carbon Fibre
They're bare carbon fiber
Mercedes stripped the white paint to reveal the bare metal, thus being dubbed the silver arrows.
6:25 honestly any car would suffice
Wake up babe, new video just dropped
Stickers on Carbon ...Okay fine
Bring us a Marlboro 0.0 percent nicotine Livery... if alcohol sponsors can do the same
the McLaren livery exists
Andretti will buy haas out eventually the games we play, edit to pepe lapu skipping after the cat with a white stipe😂😂
Will do they clap or hang when U walk
They thud, obviously.
At least Mercedes has painted black for now
Early ticker stamp
If drivers can choose their numbers, the fact no one has 69 is not very nice.
Way to solve a problem that doesn't exist
If this even is a problem, it's one for the commercial side of the teams.
Why would anyone care unless we can't tell the difference at all. And we've got live timing, if you use your brain you know which car ur looking at.
@@RedmondBarryII Do you really expect the average F1 viewer to figure that out? This is like saying "if you use your brain, you know what football team you're looking at by their formation". Sure, involved fans can do that, but the average Joe cannot.
New rule: A minimum of 70% of the car must be painted, problem solved! 😉😁
Some music: czcams.com/video/6_uxGJW2pww/video.html
Id make it 80% even 70% is a l leaving almost 1 third unpainted
I think the belief that carbon takes away the ability to tell the cars apart is an over exaggerated take. Every car has their team colors clearly displayed, each team's colors are different enough to tell who's who, and each livery is designed in a unique enough manner. The carbon does cut into the brand image, that much is true, but nobody should be confused as to which car is which unless they're inebriated or something. This is a problem, but it's one that F1 and the FIA themselves have created. Everyone can deal with this until the new regs in 2026.
There is an easier fix. Instead of minimum paint coverage, have minimum paint WEIGHT, otherwise we'll jist get a bunch of matt painted cars to save weight on clear coat.
Lack of team identity isn't a problem in other sports. Why should it be in F1? It is just useless whyning to have something to whyne about in the off season. Luckely next weekend wintertesting starts.
Pretty much all team-based sports have teams design a shirt or something of the sort to easily differentiate them from each other. SINCE 1890, football teams have been required to differentiate from each other in kit design; starting as not allowing any similar colours, which was later replaced by having 2 or more different kit designs.
On top of differentiating purposes, colours typically have a significant history for the club in question and are iconic. Manchester United is red, Manchester City is blue. FC Barcelona has blue+red, while Real Madrid has white.
For simplicity, let's say black is just the lightest kit colour in terms of weight. If clubs started removing their kit's colours to save weight, and they all converged on mostly black designs, people would get upset and there's regulations already in place to combat this. F1 doesn't have any regulations in this field, and the teams are exploiting it for weight saving. How are you gonna tell all the cars apart if they're all basically the same colour?
@@Slimmeyy
For sports who are played with two teams on the same pitch teamkit differences are essential for the game to be played. This is not the case with auto or moto sports. In dirttrack racing all vehicles and riders get the track colour and the race itself is not influenced at all.
@@henkormel5610 Not sure what you mean with the dirt track racing sentence, googling pictures shows them as having their own liveries.
As a side-point: if anything I'm more upset at American motorsports teams for having completely different designs for each of their cars. As someone that doesn't follow any US racing series (I don't follow F1 closely either, so this isn't a bias thing), I have literally no idea which cars belong to which teams. The only exceptions are teams that do use a similar design on all their cars (like McLaren in Indycar with their white, black and blue variants of the same livery).
@@Slimmeyy
If you have ever watched dirt track in wet wether you know what I am talking about.
For racing colours are negligeble. They are only importand for sponsors and fans. They are however irelvant for racing.
My favorite colour is black, so i really dont give a fuck 😂
there is actually colored carbon fibre.
no idea why noone is using it...
It's significantly more difficult and expensive, as well as potentially heavier. You can't just dye carbon fiber, so you'd have to weave coloured threads into the carbon fiber. This is just unnecessarily time-consuming and expensive, especially with the modern cost cap.
@@Slimmeyy I don't know about cost, but weight shouldn't be that much of an issue.
The colored carbon fibre sheets from Hypertex are about 7% heavier than normal black carbon fibre. Since you only need to use colored material for the most outside layer and it is still carbon fibre and so still structural, my guess would be that it adds far less weight than paint or stickers would.
So yeah, it is either cost, the available colors are not interesting enough, or it is just too much hassle to get some carbon fibre from an alternate source.
I dont care, Carbon liverys are beautyfull
I’m gonna go a bit more extreme here by saying remove paints on your car doesn’t improve your performance. Here’s why: back in 2019 and 2020, many team started to use matte paint job because according to them it’s lighter than the glossy paint. But then Mercedes will storming through the grid, winning both championships with a glossy paint car. And the same thing happened in 2023. Red Bull and Ferrari were the teams with most amount of color on their car and they’re also the only two teams that won races. Even Aston Martin with their glossy paint also got 8 podiums. Meanwhile Haas finished last with their car that has more carbon than paints. So in my opinion stripping paints off your car makes no difference. At the end it all comes down to the design of your car, not the livery on it.
Or Red Bull and Ferrari were lighter and therefore could afford to put more paint on?
also saves money if you're like Haas
That is not how this works at all
I’m just amazed at how passionate the response has been to this paint thing. Can’t we just say, “oh, I think F1 and the FIA should look into something to ensure teams paint their car to some capacity. It makes for good viewing, gives teams an identity and colourful, distinctive cars are attractive to kids.” and JUST LEAVE IT AT THAT? People have literally made a mountain out of a molehill on this one, reacting like some sort of crisis is upon us and praising any team that paints their car. I can’t fathom how someone seems to be crying themselves to sleep at night over the fact that some racing cars don’t have paint on it. I mean, really guys? Other more important stuff deserves more attention.
*Promo SM* 🍀
I wish people hadn't whined about not seeing the car immediately. Now we jsut get these shitty 2 minute renders and that's it.
Laaaaame.
"Car launches" that just reveal the livery are a waste of time. No idea why F1 fans pay any attention. Just show up at the first test session and roll up the garage door. Don't care whether the cars are carbon black - that's up to the team and their sponsors to wrangle.
Increase weight to 800kg
They wouldn’t paint the car they would add more components. I think the solution would be hat it gets made mandatory to paint At least 75% of the bodywork
regulating how teams paint and brand their cars is the dumbest idea ever. that number thing is barely 2% of the car, now u wanna regulate 50% or more? Is mercedes not allowed to be black anymore? Should we only allow one teams car to be black for differenciation? If so who should be allowed the black car? the blackest team branding? and the black car will have less wind tunnel time to make up for the advantage? what if we ban black branding period. is something like merc's 2020 campaign illegal in these regs?
i think black on cars make the other bright colours pop more. dont give me bullshit and say u cant differenciate mclaren and stake sauber, or alpine and merc. try harder. all cars have 4 wheels, a halo, front and rear wings, and yall have been differenciating fine. carbon is just the evolution of f1 technology, deal with it.
teams should paint/not paint their cars however they decide because thats the identity they wanna set for themselves. if everyone is black/carbon, so be it. you cant regulate brand identity
Why make a weight joke dude, not cool
"Generic white man npc" what is your point here please?
No need for any "fix". Another click bait headline.