Labour could create a national bank
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- čas přidán 11. 09. 2024
- The UK’s banks are amongst its least popular businesses because they don’t give a damn about their customers and provide a perfunctory service. The UK government could provide an alternative in that case - and did at one time, called the GiroBank. I argue that Labour should get on and do this again.
#uk #money #economic #politics #bank
ABOUT RICHARD MURPHY
Richard Murphy is Professor of Accounting Practice at Sheffield University Management School. He is director of Tax Research LLP and the author of the Funding the Future blog. His best known book is ‘The Joy of Tax’.
This video was edited by Thomas Murphy.
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As a young man I used to use Girobank , it was the best bank I've ever used .
It was started by Tony Ben former labour MP then privatized under the Thatcher regime as they did with everything else .
I never saw a branch.
@@johnburns4017Part of the Post Office.
@@PaddyWV
So p.o. account was a Giro account?
And Labour used PFI with long term costs and but no ownership of assets.
Not privatised that's a con to move blame from Government and let those and theirs have a nice little pay out through shareholder dividends, we still own it, sleight of hand at play.
Yep, GIRO. Same in Holland. The state sold it in the 1990s. Every country had the option of creating a national, non commercial bank in 2008 after the financial crash. None did for obvious reasons. Leaned on by the BIS and higher up. They want to control ALL the banks, no exception..
Bingo.
I remember the days of the National Girobank. It was run by the Post Office and was on every high street, it was innovative, you could do all your banking there, and it served the people of the UK well for many years. But, now it's just one of the many public institutions that the Tories sold off under Thatcher-what a legacy she has left to the country!
The Girobank should be resurrected. It could offer savings and current accounts with decent interest rates, cheap long term government backed mortgages without the fear of losing your home if you default, general low interest loans, and with a branch on every high street, with a cash machine, instead of closing them all! The benefit to this country and our communities would be immense.
And access to cash is vital, no CBDC !!
I'd rather invest in 80-100 thousand new council houses a year for a decade. 30 odd billion total investment required, By year 3 the economy boost returns that and ultimately once complete will provide 12 billion (current terms) of savings from costs such as housing benefit. [edit: and a total boost of 50+ billion to the uk economy plus myriad social benefits, which themselves further boost the economy]
@abody499, why don't we have both, surely a decent government could strive for that.
@@abody499 I totally agree. Our family lived in a Victorian house, but thanks to the Labour Party, it was demolished, and we moved to a brand-new council house in the same area. It was nothing special, but at least the ice didn't former on the inside of the windows during the winter-we had proper winters back then, mini ice ages! So, at one time, we did have both, and we could have both again, it just needs the political will. A Tory government will never build council houses on the scale of a 1960s or 1970s Labour government, and sadly, neither will the present day Labour government, you can't get a cigarette paper between them!
Our archaic FPTP voting system only benefits the two main parties, and it's holding back the country. We need proportional representation, STV for instance, to finally break the hold of the two main political parties who have held sway for far too long. I think collation governments would bring more stability to the country, because there would be more checks and balances. There'd be less corruption and fraud, like the many examples we've seen over the last few years, and extreme politicians would have a hard job getting elected in the first place.
@@rogerhudson9732you can bet your bum that if GiroScam was resurrected, CBDCs become more of a reality…
The more listen to this man the more and more sense he makes for the country
I seem to remember this was a Corbyn era pledge.
You have Tony Benn to thank for Giro Bank, which worked through Post Offices for exactly same reasons, inclusion.
The post office have accounts. Nationalise the PO. Sorted.
My local post office has just opened a banking hub. Seems a decent enough idea.
I wouldn`t trust Liebour with a teaspoon let alone my money.
Or the Tories, for that matter.
I remember Girobank, it was the only way a lot of people could get an actual bank account just when everything was going digital and they were needed for payments. Worked far too well though which is probably why they sold it off 🤔
I worked for a long time for a foreign state owned bank, here in the UK. This was used to provide favourable loans and grants to individuals and organisations associated with the ruling party in their home country. One particular IPO was routed through Switzerland, China, Belgium and Lichtenstein to generate “profits” which were given by way of grant to a particular candidate. The last thing we need is a bank with credit creation powers, under the control of politicians.
A few years ago there was UKAR where the old mortgages from failed banks-building societies was. It made substantial profits and the government decided to sell all the mortgage business which was crazy.
It could also be useful for small charities and societies. I have acted as honorary treasurer for a couple until recently but out of frustration with the banks have given up. I have a distinct impression that there are at least a number of banks that don't want this type of business nowadays. In fact one bank (that shall remain nameless) even froze one of our accounts and threatened to close it for some insane reason that was completely fake. My appeal fell on deaf ears but when I referred it to the Banking Ombudsman the account was immediately unfrozen and the threat of closure removed!
It is not an impression- it is a fact. Looking for a society account, both Halifax and Nationwide said 'we no longer do such accounts'.
Good for you! Glad you won! 👍
@@TensquaremetreworkshopThey should: they were building societies!
@@oneoflokis Yep. But converts are always the most zealous...
@@Tensquaremetreworkshop Yeah.😏
Why did conservatives not do it with NatWest/RBS as taxpayers we pretty much owned it at one point ?
Good idea…which is probably why it was never considered 🤔😉
Why presume that the government has any intention of acting in the interest of the people when it’s so obviously a gravy rain for an elite??
EU law prevented it
Happy to help.
"As a condition of the British Government purchasing an 81% shareholding in the group, the European Commission ruled that the group sell a portion of its business, as the purchase was categorised as state aid.[67] In August 2010, the group reached an agreement to sell 318 branches to Santander UK, made up of the RBS branches in England and Wales and the NatWest branches in Scotland.[68] Santander withdrew from the sale on 12 October 2012.[69]
In September 2013, the group confirmed it had reached an agreement to sell 314 branches to the Corsair consortium, made up of private equity firms and a number of institutional investors, including the Church Commissioners, which controls the property and investment assets of the Church of England.[70] The branches, incorporating 250,000 small business customers, 1,200 medium business customers and 1.8 million personal banking customers, were due to be separated from the group in 2016 as a standalone business.[71] The planned company would have traded as an ethical bank,[72] using the dormant Williams & Glyn's brand.[71]
In August 2016, RBS cancelled its plan to spin off Williams & Glyn as a separate business, stating that the new bank could not survive independently. It revealed it would instead seek to sell the operation to another bank.[73]
In February 2017, HM Treasury suggested that the bank should abandon the plan to sell the operation, and instead focus on initiatives to boost competition within business banking in the United Kingdom.[74] This plan was formally approved by the European Commission in September 2017"
Because Tories are ideologically against it. Labour don't do it either but it's worse with them because they're supposed to be ideologically for it, but aren't not because really they're red Tories
Completely agree with Richard that we need community hubs for banking in all small towns - although this is mostly to cater for small businesses who need to deposit takings and OAPs who still use cash and cheques, and are uncomfortable with mobile phone banking.
But there is an issue of for how long will we need those sort of community hubs. As people become more and more comfortable using internet banking and mobile phone banking the need for a physical presence in towns and cities gets less and less mostly because the use of cash will become even smaller than currently. IMO the need for a physical presence such as community hub has at best 20 years lifespan
It's critical to get back to local banking, where the bank knows its customers - especially businesses - so that it will lend to them to innovate and grow. Currently banks prefer to lend for mortgages because it's much less risky and much more lucrative. Once again, they don't actually do what we think they do.
I recall hearing Prof. Richard Werner claim that he could make any economy prosperous by organizing local banks who lend to local SMEs
@@justinstephenson9360 🙂👍
Yes, because government run 'companies' have such a great track record. British Leyland. British Rail. British coal. British steel. Nothing like the dead hand of a civil servant to spice up innovation. Modelling it on the post office - a stroke of genius! Knighthoods all round, chaps!
This is a Tory idea that government ran companies don't work. They cut the budget and outsource work to private industry. Then when it fails they blame public ownership and people fall for it.
Girobank DID innovate in many ways and shook up the entire sector, with the traditional banks plying catch up.
@@gustavfenk4021 New organizations often do- it is what happens as they age that is the problem. Govt. organizations are exempt from creative destruction.
They have decided to nationalise the railways and they could have done the same with the Post Office but obviously had no inclination for it.
Oh yeah that's not been a success. Same with the car industry. Nationalised then destroyed.
Thank you Richard for answering one of my questions 😊
Yes Yes Yes. The commercial banks nowadays will not give you an account unless you have a certain minimum income. Under Govt. pressure the Co-op Bank has what they call a basic account. No overdraft ever, a debit card but no access to any other banking facility, and like all financial institutions they have strict policies to prevent money laundering that prevent many people being able to open a bank account. Why? Policies to pick up suspicious transactions yes, but any decent criminal will be able to provide ample (forged) proof of identity, that the very poor cannot. You can sign on for benefits with no proof of identity, but you cannot get a bank account to pay the benefits into.
I live in a small Scottish town. Both our banks closed in the last three years, and our post office is now part of a petrol station right on the edge of town as the post office on the High Street closed. We need a bank that is centrally located and that is accessible by everybody even those without a car. Online banking is good for many things, if you are rich enough to own a computer and pay for a broadband line, but it does not meet all needs, such as paying in cash.
(Minor edit).
I believe that mortgage rates should not be directly linked to general interest rates. Why should people’s homes be put at risk when the commercial economy overheats and needs curbing.
There is no reason not to have various loan rates for different categories of debt, after all banks have no trouble having 30%+ apr rates for credit cards!
At least in America you can 'walk away' from your mortgage and not be chased 'down the street' for the outstanding (plus interest and fees).
@@kellyeye7224 yes you do that, but probably only once.
@@AaaaandAction 'only once' - somehow I think the banks are so desperate (despicable) that they'd welcome anyone with any credit rating to take a mortgage - even a second mortgage - as recent evidence indicates. They don't care about the debt (it's either written off or the taxpayer picks it up) but their opportunity to extend credit for the interest income is always forefront.
If the UK Government already has a bank for itself to use, then how is that bank independent?
Great idea. I think, at least for the business part, this was Mr Corbyn's plan. I doubt Mr Starmer will adopt this idea.
This is already the policy of the National Economics Forum.
The split in society that is being prised apart is belief or not in the effects of democratic government to do good or the opposite.
This is democracy itself that’s in danger.
Governments must earn the confidence of the people via policies for the common good.
This is one.
The beneficial effects would be quickly felt.
The private banking system would fight it all the way to the courts.
Just do it.
@@gordonwilson1631 💯
Yeah that would give labour the chance to really screw the pensioners their own bank what a bollocks of an idea
😂😂😂😂😂
The government are wanting to be able to poke around in people's financial affairs and were looking into passing legislation to do so. Won't this just allow them to ignore that step if they become a bank themselves? It makes sense, in some ways, but isn't the civil liberties risk a significant factor in the 'cons' list?
I'm not blind to the obvious advantages but I value civil liberties and privacy a hell of a lot.
Me too. This is why I encourage people to focus on the authoritarian structure of society rather than declaring we can't have nice things because govt will use it to spy on us. We need well designed systems and eternal vigilance. Rather than banning CBDCs, we ensure they are designed to have the privacy and anonymity of cash. Rather than design the BBC to be a mouthpiece of govt, design it to be a mouthpiece of the people. We can't simply reject everything authoritarians accept
Labour introduced a new bank in 1968, it was called National Giro bank, you could transact all your banking business at a post office counter. Wow! Unfortunately, it was bought by Alliance and Leicester, which was bought by Santander. The latter bank is busy closing all it's high street branches, and encouraging people to use the Post office counters for their banking business. 🤣
Would be interesting to see the story of the GiroBank. Good re introduction of the subject again though Richard
All most of us want Labour to do now, is resign and dissolve.........same with the Tories.
Excellent.
As the government provides this bank, does that mean "no interest charged on borrowing" like Jewish and Muslim banks as they would be able to print their own money depending on Gold reserves and GDP and will they cancel your bank account for simply having a different opinion to the mainstream thought they seem to be pushing? They way Labour is going at the moment this might not be a good idea.
This is common sense. Especially if… everyone had an an account. Fingers crossed.
Good to see somebody is promoting solutions to obvious problems. Perhaps one might consider food security as well. It was a problem after the war and one we face today.
More commonly known as 'Gosbank'. Very slippery road...
Make it even easier to bring in a cbdc. If you receive benefits or are a pensioner they already have it, its called the dwp.
DWP payments are processed by Starling Bank.
Abolish private banking
And easier to create a central bank digital currency and who’s to say it wouldn't be programmable
Bet it would be under written by WEF!
Well said!
Another great video. Thank you. 🙏
That's what Germany inter alia E.U. should create, but the Maastricht Treaty made no provision. They could add an Addendum Clause.
The U.K. already has the N S I.
Not Starmer's Labour, or Sunak's Tories, or Farage's reform party. All our political parties are in hock to big business and private equity.
Yep. Reeves will have our pensions going that way soon.
As a pupil in Junior School every Monday we would take our Giro Bank book into school with a small amount to deposit, this would then be taken by the school to the Post Office with our books returned fully updated later in the day.
A simple, effective way to teach the value of saving even a small amount each week at an age when we are most accepting of learning new things. With current, basic savings and higher savings accounts available and the ability to access the money easily through the Post Office in every village in the country it made so much sense.
Great idea 💡
Clive Burgess
The idea is sound enough, but the idea of putting any money into a brainwave idea pushed by Labour is a great No,No!
Therefore you have a choice bank with this new bank or continue to get ripped off as now.maybe at some time you need to withdraw cash good luck with that the way the banks are heading.
Not a chance as KR is like many before bought and paid for.
Check his position in the Masonic movement, then consider well
Everything a British government does will be a disaster, this country has no future, for young people, the future is in the East. Go East young man go East.
Hello Richard... Just found your CZcams channel (after 4 years!) and "subscribed" and "liked" ..
Although we don´t necessarily agree with your "political views" .... the information you publish on finance and tax (evasion) has proved invaluable to us. And we will never forget the support you gave us (10 years ago) when suffering financial skullduggery from the Isle of Man. You are a hero. Warmest wishes - Premier Shareholders Group.
Starmer needs Gordon Brown.
Too late - the golds already gone.
@ianmarsden8568 how? Oh man, central banks have been buying like crazy. Apparently the bond/gilt market is about to crash big time. The derivatives market is over two quadrillion dollars and, when that blows. Without gold, third world will be luxurious.
?
That's funny. Spot on!😀
Community voluntary associations have been excluded from finding a bank account. These simple instrument’s are valuable for clubs, self help organisations, mutual aid, and other useful grass root endeavours. . In time some of these can evolve into significant bases for democratic common - wealth building. A new National bank might also work in partnership with network of regional banks that nave been incubated, credit unions can also be included in the network of mutually supporting financial instruments.
Girobank still exists. It lives in a huge converted hospital in Bootle in all it’s ‘1970’s Soviet’ glory. I suspect that Santander (current owners) would be very happy to hand it back to the government !
Would not work in the UK
It only works in democracies
Banking is financial infratructure, and these days essential infrastructure!!!
The infrastructure paradox is that the best infrastruture is notoriously difficult to make money running. This is almost the definition of infrastruture: The better your infrastructure or utility runs, the harder it becomes to make money running it. This is because the value of infrastructure is in what it enables in externalities, and that value deminishes as you try to make money from running it. Which is why infrastructure is usually paid for by the government.
We had one before it was 3ii. This was then renationalised and the trustee savings bank also owned by the savers again sold into private ownership by the Tories.
Why not take it one step further and allow this 'national bank' to issue all currency such that they won't have to pay interest on their own borrowing?
I used to work for the Giro bank, in Bootle, It was a great bank, so much so Thatcher hated it and sold it off!
Yeah, I've long agreed with this. A people's banking system would deal with a lot of the frustrations, threats, and costs that working people in Britain have to endure through using the private banking sector. These are really the things that Brits have to "take back control" of - take back everything the private sector has been gifted over the years.
The constituent parts all already there. The Post Office and NS&I. Post Office counters can already be used for basic banking services for any bank in the UK the issues a debit card, and their savings accounts are provided by the Bank of Ireland.
Replace BoI with NS&I and allow NS&I to provide loans and mortgages and the service is ready to go both online and on the high street. Not so long ago some Crown Post Office branches had in house mortgage advisors.
I had a Giro account, without my say it was sold to Alliance and Leicester then onto Santander. So another Giro bank would be worthless as it would be simply sold off yet again. Banks are about control, nothing more nothing less, for the average person buying a home is impossible as it moved out of the range of the lower Middle Classes. Where is your claim it would benefit all, for most on the lower 30% of the population banks have no real benefit. The only real benefit is to government and big business that will gain total control!
Thank you for your honesty. It’s refreshing and yet nobody in this government all the previous government may be future governments. I don’t think we’ll do this. It’s just my opinion. Nice idea in principle the problem is it’s called greed. Unfortunately, it’s not just the government. It’s also the banks as you for well known and that’s the formidable problem. Greed throughout the system the sooner we get rid of that word the better.. but it’s only through the youngsters that we can achieve this. It’s the future not ours and this is what the banks and the governments have to realise it’s there children’s future they’re supposed to be developing a government for the banks for just putting it out there for now, take care and appreciate your videos, keep them coming. Thank you.
They don't care about the children.there greed is such that even saving the planet comes second to their greed.
We already have a national bank,its called the bank of England which was nationalized in 1946
But which previously existed in a form that was effectively nationalised since Victorian times, because of its operation as the Govt. banker and issuer of Gilts and money, and holder of the Govt. gold reserves. It gradually ceased offering bank accounts to anybody but the Govt., other banks and foreign countries, and its own employees (until 2016) following the First World War. It has had a nightly guard from one of the Guards Regiments since 1780. So although nominally independent prior to 1946, its behavior was almost completely at the direction of the Govt. of the day, irrespective of who was a shareholder!
I used to have a GiroBank account, accessed via the PostOffice a 10 minute walk away. I also had NS&I savings. It was a good thing. It was one of the best things, along with the Open University, from the LABOUR administration of Harold Wilson.
A true people's government would have a national Post Office, NS&I and GiroBank as a financial hub in every community.
Reeves is an Osborne/Thatcher short sighted elitist.
A national bank would be one key mechanism to help “The People” stop wealth flowing towards “The Rich” but physical bricks and mortar banks seem very archaic and counterproductive; surely an unnecessary and significant expense that the public would be paying for?
(Regarding convenience: I can only say that since I went 100% digital, banking has become much less time consuming, leaving more time and energy for work and rest; previously, regular trips to the high street bank were just another hurdle in the rat race.)
Paying for 'bricks and mortar' banks and 'regular trips to the high street bank' would be the least of anyone's worries if this failed rehashed theory ever takes hold.
Why don't we make people's banks ,community banks that look after the people who use them
When a state bank to protect us from existing banks sounds like a good idea you know there are more fundamental problems. My understanding of the US mortgage insurance 'banks' is that they are largely responsible for the 2008 Financial Global Crisis by insisting that loans didn't need sound criteria --- Richard needs to open his eyes to the damage inflicted by the big-state; not advocating ever more.
He is not saying it should be the same as the states.lt should be carefully monitored. Like all good ideas throw everything at it if it stands out go for it.this contrasts to tory badly though out ideas have been implemented and failed at great cost.
@@JohnPark-xf2gq - Yes of course -- the all knowing altruistic bureaucrats will lead us to nirvana - the existing banking system failure is a result of massive political interence from all shades of politics -- not just those from the other side with whom we disagree. The reason we don't have a diverse mortgage/property sector is because people who Richard supports have constrained the choices of others and undermined democracy so that they can impose their magic-money, big state, one-size-fits-all solutions. We are less prosperous because the freedom of Westminster to rule has priority over the people's freedom to choose -- tyranny. A new GIRO bank is not intrinsically bad -- but another subsidised Quango micro-managed by politicians will head in the same direction as all the others.
I agree a public bank would be good but the US model is awful. A perfect example of neo liberalism. The government backs some mortgages and the banks take advantage of this by offering garbage mortgages.
If doing a public bank, it needs oversight from top to bottom. Not just to give banks a fallback on casino moves.
We should all have a larger say in how our Country is run, I mean let's be honest voting is not worth it. It seems it is only our money when it comes the time to pay it back.
Yes, I agree that a national public bank could work as described. Most OECD countries had this, a few still have.
However, this solution will exist in the current economic growth narrative. That housing “must” be a financial asset, and that “waged work” is the single abstraction for achieving societal and individual wellbeing.
Yes, these are “old questions” - but earlier modernist political frameworks focused on us as external to most constraints of ecology. We know - and experience - these ecological constraints today, as a non-local outcome. Meaning, we are not “in control” within a country or a council. Economically and ecologically.
What is “growth” without accounting for losses given what we now experience? Not for me to answer, but I’m pretty convinced that growth in a purely traditional economic understanding remains a scary path to keep our faith in.
Dialectics isn’t just a political tool for lefties. It can be a cognitive tool in a transcending effort to realise our constraints. Then, maybe “grow” differently than now?
No chance of that. We now have an alternative Tory government, not a socialist one.
Nationwide building society seem pretty inclusive?
Are you off your mash ?. Is this a joke ?.
What is Austrian economics?
Good idea.👏👏👏
you should start a Petition
Pigs could fly.
❤❤❤❤❤
ARE YOU MAD ? 🏴
Great idea, Richard! 💯👍
All kicking off in the UK this week and the best way Best of limiting the far right is to follow the majority of the western country and legalize drugs. the European model, with fouce public health, not the usa model thats money and bankrupt states
Richard, I would be interested in hearing your opinion of universal basic income. I am not an economist, but I can see only positives. Research, although limited in scope and duration, suggests that it would eradicate many of our problems. Again, I am no expert and have, consequently, not done a 'deep dive' into the details of this research and its possible implementation in a country such as the UK.
🟥Labour to apply ambitious Jeremy Corbyn plan