An Early 3D Pokémon Retrospective
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- čas přidán 8. 06. 2024
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Let's talk about the early days of 3D Pokemon: Stadium, Colosseum, and XD. They deserve some more attention.
0:00 Intro
3:37 The 3D Stadium
9:23 Counterfeit Colosseum
26:27 Wave of Darkness
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/ whaddupnico
ShadowMario3: / @shadowmario3
Bulbapedia: m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/...
Serebii: www.serebii.net/
Commercials used:
• Pokemon Stadium 2 N64 ...
• Pokemon Colosseum Ga...
• Pokemon XD Gale of Dar...
Script: docs.google.com/document/d/1x...
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Twitch: / thekingklonoa
Last Life: last-life.net/
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#Pokémon #Colosseum #XD - Hry
Evidently, when I re-rendered a second version of the video, Premiere decided it was going to remove the crop effect on the clip with the list of patrons... for no reason... awesome...
I actually had to screen record because Premiere can no longer handle rendering scrolling text and consistently crashes whenever I try to do it. What a fun piece of software!
Well, the video's public now, so I guess you get to enjoy a behind the scenes look. This is the last time I'll be using Premiere anyway so I suppose this was its way of giving me the finger.
If I hadn't read this comment, I would've thought it was just a stylistic choice. It looks kinda cool actually! Maybe it should be a staple design decision going forward
I thought it was an odd stylistic choice but I kind of dug it. I do kind of like when content creators put in meta stuff like this to sort of ground the work in its medium, like leaving in a sync clap in the video itself at the start.
Also, is that Ishiiruka Dolphin I see on your bar there? Is there a reason to use Ishiiruka anymore?
Have you tried DaVinici Resolve? I think it's a very good alternative to Premiere
ngl I liked it a lot. I thought it was a fun new choice, especially after you JUST mentioned having a unique take and the games being made my others.
I honestly thought it was intentional, as if you were showing that you yourself are finished and about to upload the video or something lmao
A big part of the Orre games I don't think people talk about enough is how damn good the soundtracks are. Both games have an excellent assortment of battle themes that are some of the best in the franchise imo.
Just about every song in these games are pleasant to listen to. Even the ones you won't stick around for too long to listen to, like Pre Gym and Krabby Klub, are wonderful to hear and go a long way in making the Shadow Pokemon games' OSTs great! 👍
I’d LOVE to have official releases of those OSTs!
I rave about the colosseum sound track to this day. Glad I’m not alone
Exactly, part of the reason why I adored Colosseum as a kid was the phenomenal soundtrack
I still come back to listen to it while I’m at work these days 🙂
Soundtracks are indeed legendary. Love them both to death
Fun fact: Pokemon Battle Revolution has an interesting take on a shiny hunt. You can't catch pokemon in the game but you can obtain pokemon themed outfits by battling trainers that wear them and there's a chance that the outfit the trainers wear will be of the Pokemon's shiny.
There's also trade battles post game. Shinies can appear there and if the trainer uses them in a battle you can get it if you win
The issue with the shiny costumes is that you can only get one of every kind of outfit, regardless of their shinyness, meaning you can only get that shiny outfit if it's the first time you beat that trainer, locking you out from the other version. You should be able to get both the shiny and non-shiny versions of the outfits
wasn't there a video documenting how difficult it is to actually get the shiny costumes? like it took them over 10 years of repeating the same battles over and over again just for a CHANCE to get the shiny costume. they saw wayyy more shiny Pokemon (and even the same one 3 times in a row, which according to the stats makes that even more event rare than a shiny costume) than shiny costumes
Sunset Colosseum once handed me and the AI a pair of shiny Vigoroth, so Shinies themselves show up as a little bonys occasionally.
I feel like people only know about this cause of that guy who spent an outrageous amount of time trying to get the shiny Groudon costume
Colosseum is the reason umbreon became my favorite Pokemon. On probably my 10th rematch of the final boss, got down to machamp vs my umbreon, no more revives or potions and machamp was one hit away from a KO. Umbreon absolutely tanked a cross chop, surviving in red hp and finished it off, finally beating the game.
That game is also the reason why I learned that Umbreon is an INSANLY good tank; I ended up calling him the "Earthquake Sponge" because in one battle he tanked more earthquakes than I reasonably thought was possible.
Vaporeon hard carried me through XD. It'll still be my favorite despite what the internet tries.
get a new favourite mon
@@oscarsullivan5983 Imagine
Every tough battle, Umbreon would always be the last one standing. And every once in a while that Confuse Ray would come in clutch.
One detail I'm surprised you missed is that another purpose of the Orre games, Colosseum in particular, was to give players access to Johto Pokemon. It's easy to forget now, but until the Johto remakes came out, so from Gen 3 through half of Gen 4, it was extremely difficult to find Johto Pokemon since players couldn't transfer Pokemon from the Gen 2 games.
This was seven years in real time (2002-2009). I grew up in the GBA era, so to me and my friends, the Johto Pokemon had an almost mythical status because of how hard it was to get them. Like, if you missed the Navel Rock event, then the only other way to get Lugia and Ho-Oh legitimately at the time was to catch them in the Orre games and transfer them to your GBA games. And remember, this was the age before Nintendo Wi-Fi. Those events required you to actually go to a specified location, where they would have stations where attendants would transfer the Mystic ticket into your game. And on top of that, remember that there wasn't social media yet, so it wasn't exactly easy to get notified when these events were happening if you didn't check the Pokemon website or have a subscription to Nintendo Power. Not to mention getting your parents to actually drive you there. And the requirements to get Ho-Oh in Colosseum were utterly tedious.
The only other way to get the Johto starters was to complete the Hoenn Pokedex in Emerald, and the professor would let you choose one of them. As for the dogs, the only other way to get them was in FR/LG. You could only catch one of them, depending on which starter you picked, and to make things even worse... they were f-ing roaming legendaries. So if you used the Master Ball on Mewtwo... get ready to rip your hair out.
As for XD, it didn't have as many rare Pokemon, but looking back, it's interesting to note that many of them were version exclusives, as well as Pokemon that were an utter nightmare to catch in the games like the Safari Zone Pokemon.
It was really, really difficult as a kid to do those things. Not to mention, none of us knew we could actually transfer Pokemon from the Gamecube to our GBA games. We called it "The Dark Age of Johto."
Man I feel like I just watched 6 episodes of pain and suffering just from your comment. Someone needs to make a anime out of it
What C.W.SimpsonProductions said, that era was truly dark times. I remember those days 😖. I think that’s why i get so pissed when people bitch about the new pokemon games. We’re so damn spoiled compared to those days.
To be fair
Johto mons are generally pretty bad
Yo I never really thought about it but that’s so fking true. Growing up without a ton of friends owning Emerald and FR/LG, there were so many Pokémon accessibility problems lol
@@CC-xq2qi are you smoking crack
apologize to quagsire right now
Kind of disappointed you didn’t talk about the mini games in Pokémon Stadium. Those mini games give the battles a run for their money. They are fun and hilarious to play with friends.
they were extremely fun. I'd play them for hours.
They were fun to play but there isn't exactly much to say about them.
I have such fond memories of those mini-games, I wish they brought those back.
exactly! there's a decent bit more to those games than just 'battle simulator'. great video but i wish more time was spent on those games (also, the library and class challenges let me learn a LOT about pokemon strategy as a kid)
I remember playing the mini games for hourssss I remember my cousins coming over on holidays and all 4 of us would play them
I recently booted up my old GameCube and played Pokémon XD with my kids who are now the same age I was when I played it.
Seeing them get just as invested and excited about the game as I did at their age, is a memory that will make me cry until the day I die.
This is what "living the dream" means.
That's adorable honestly.
@@chafacorpTV i’m not trying to undermine the wholesome comment but it’s still consumerism, i dont know if I’d call that the idealism of “living the dream”
@dusk legend
In the spirit of Disney’s Tangled: Your dream stinks.
I got Scarlet for my wife. She’s never had her own Pokémon gae before. And watching her have so much fun is absolutely delightful.
@@DuskLegend You're a loser dude
I'd love to see Genius Sonority do another spinoff game in their style, something like Legends Arceus
They only have 22 employees and I don’t think there going to make any big projects anymore they mainly make small projects now
The guys who made these games mostly work at gamefreak now
@@JunaidWolf3 can’t be worse than Game Freak.
@@bobo_1803 then why is GF still struggling to compete with the work GS put out so long ago?
@Alec Holland because animating less than 100 Pokémon per game takes lot less effort, than animating and retexturing over 400 of them for each new game...
I like Orre a lot in Coliseum because it feels almost like a pokemon region set in the wild west. You wander through a lawless desert to towns that are relatively isolated from each other as a kindhearted outlaw, stealing pokemon away from people who abuse them, or to heal pokemon whose trainers dont even realize they're suffering. You've even got a fun little quickdraw, what with the capture arm being able to produce pokeballs
I agree with you except the arm doesnt create pokeballs it changes pokeballs you own into snagem balls that can be supported by the device. You still have to purchase the pokeballs 1st.
Shoutouts to Pokemon Battle Revolution for being the only game what lets you pick a body type/age for your trainer (3 choices per gender), really wish we got those customization options back
Yeah, that was cool! I would like to see customization like that again. Maybe even have more options, like to play as a chubby trainer or an elderly trainer.
Pokemon Collosseum was weird in the capturing aspect.. but as a kid was so freaking cool to have a 3d adventure. Espeon is probably my favorite pokemon because of that game.
Umbreon in mine
I grew a massive respect for Plusle because for some reason that thing was being REALLY helpful in my playthrough
It was even on the battlefield when I caught Ein's Raikou, and it did help with the catching
It’s also worth noting that the Pokémon Stadium game served as good post game content for the game boy titles, especially 2. Tama Hero has some good videos about this. The teams were actually challenging, and they had a lot of good synergies. It’s a shame the mainline games don’t have the same amount of depth.
I’d be curious to check these videos out but I’m not sure which ones you’re referring to! I was a bit bummed but not surprised to hear KingK didn’t care much for them but the Stadium games were everything to me as a kid. Being able to play my GB games on the TV with extra speed, the mini games, the way the challenges actually CHALLENGED me and gave me nail-biting moments no other Pokemon games have. And yea, the presentation was so damn good for its day. And while I get not wanting to “weaponize” N64 Pokemon against modern games, it’s POKEMON, bigger now than it ever has been. Surely they can afford to at least have games that run well, if not look and feel exciting. The Stadium games nor the Shadow duo are perfect Pokemon experiences but there’s a lot they demonstrate in what happens when someone besides GameFreak is allowed to make a Pokemon battle game.
She bashed the heck outta colssuem in a recent video
Stadium (2) is good, and does its purpose, but like I can't disagree if someone says it doesn't feel like a game that's being sold at the same price, when you can just buy another game instead.
Yeah, the early 3D games all served amazingly well as supplementary content to the mainline titles. The Stadium games were great postgames as well as addons, with features like Dodrio Mode being absolutely amazing. The Gamecube games meant that we got to fully experience the new Double Battle style while having a generation with an unprecedented number of FOUR different campaigns, all of which could trade & battle each other.
Meanwhile, in Gen 8, which arguably also had four different campaigns (if you include Go or Let's Go), you can't do any of that direct interactivity. And Home is fucking garbage compared to what we had before. A paywalled service that outright replaces the trading mechanic between games AND doesn't feature compatibilty with new games until up to a year after release? God, that would have been a fucking parody just a decade ago.
Yeah stadium and stadium 2 even given you extra pokemon, items, and even the move rememberer.
RE: Stadium, I still stand by that they were essentially incredible DLC packages for the original Pokemon games, the Isle of Armor/Crown Tundra of their day. There's a repository of information and strategy in them that goes beyond basic Pokemon concepts, the first teams built with specific strategies in mind, the only games to preserve the 3v3 with pools of six format that the original competitive Pokemon scene was founded on. Heck, there's even cool bits like Stadium 2 telling you that in Gen 1, you couldn't apply the secondary effect of moves to Pokemon with the same type as that move (eg. Body Slam can't paralyze Normal types), something that the competitive Gen 1 scene did not pick up on until years later! And unique gift Pokemon that improved movesets, like giving Psyduck Amnesia, something that Golduck desperately needed to differentiate itself. I thoroughly believe that the Dodrio Game Boy Tower-equipped Pokemon Stadium 2 is the ideal way to play all of Gen 1 and Gen 2 in the same way that Sonic 3 & Knuckles is the best way to play those games, and makes those adventures infinitely more robust and fun by essentially giving them a wonderful postgame that can also be enjoyed on its own merits - the torture of a random rentals only run through a Gym Leader Castle is just the right kind of masochism for me that no other Pokemon game can provide! And also Stadium 2's mini-games put some of Mario Party's best to shame, people who can't perfect Egg Emergency are incomplete. But yes, thank you for respecting the Gen 1 Jankers, I feel seen.
But man, I never knew about the Battle CD's during my quick rental of XD back in the day! Those are so cool as an expansion of the Earl's Pokemon Academy lessons, and you NEVER see anyone talk about it! I think that's what I appreciate about these games - you can see the clear through line between them less as developing strong Pokemon games, but creating unique RPG's that are simultaneously animation showcases, experimenting with those systems in ways that Pokemon itself wouldn't hit until Emerald version, and would never thrust into the forefront in the same way that these games did. I'll never play them again because I do not have my child self's patience to wait through animations for hours, but I'm really starting to appreciate the little details that make 'em unique. Thanks for that, you do a really great job highlighting both the positive and negative here in a way that makes both stand out strongly and understand why people both love and sour on these games.
Also nah Metal Gear got into 3D like, super unscathed. Like that's only a step up from MG2.
Agreed I really wish there could be a modern day Stadium that not only had every Pokémon in it but a ton of challenge modes for people who want to critically think about different scenarios. Basically XD’s battle CD’s but you don’t need to play through a single player to get them.
I want Pokémon to have more single player options to play competitive Pokémon. As of recently it’s only been the battle tower and oh wait they even removed that in gen 9. I’ve been playing gen 9 random battles lately and having to critically think to get myself out of previously thought to be impossible to win scenarios is my favorite feeling in games and is what happens often in random battles.
I want Pokémon to celebrate it’s competitive nature and mechanics more by having a game all focused around that. Like Stadium but for the modern day with all of the new mons, moves, and mechanics. I want to feel challenged in these games that I can’t get out the actual games besides self imposed challenges.
Of course all of this requires the game to have good ai which idk will happen but hey might be cool.
On the last comment: Mario and I think Zelda did well transitioning into 3D and of course Final Fantasy VII got a big welcome for Playstation.
@@zjzr08 Mario and Zelda did both lose something in the transition, though. They gained a lot as well, especially Zelda more so than Mario (at first), but still.
And FF7's transition was way more gradual. It got to take advantage of the fact that the actual gameplay didn't change much, the environments weren't actually all made out of 3D models & polygons, and that they'd already been doing pseudo-3D overworld design in FF6 (when you get in the airship).
@@Nyzer_ I guess I could see things like not having more powerups and a world map and arguably more individual world could be a minus for Mario 64.
@@Nyzer_ I never felt like Mario was the uncontested best 2d platformer, but that's kinda how it was for 3d mario for years. 2d mario was never as expressive and mario 64 was right out of the gate. Even modern games often feel like their movement is clunky when you compare them to mario 64.
Just wanna make a note that the Battle CDs in XD are essentially a successor to one of Stadium 2's features. It had a school or academy of sorts with a lot of 'puzzle' battles like that, mostly focusing on new mechanics introduced in gen 2.
I will say after Tama Hero mentioned it, it's interesting to look back on Stadium and Stadium 2 and realize they were essentially post-game content for their generations in the guise of a separate game you needed a different console for. Which makes Colosseum and XD all the more unique for actually putting in the effort to have their own story, even if it's not quite as polished or thorough an experience as a game as the core series, they actually feel more like actual main series titles now due to them checking plenty of boxes that identify games as such
As someone who's first video game was Gale of Darkness, it saddens me that it's legacy is just "That Pokemon game with the good animation" and nothing else. Even though Colosseum doesn't hold up well, I love the more serious tone it has. I can't see us ever getting a game like that again.
And while the story is kind of basic, I love the characters. Chobin not being able to make any kind of useful invention only to whip out the Robo Groudon later on is an iconic moment.
What do you mean? So many people consider these two the best of the franchise. I’m wishing I still had my GameCube and these games. They are ere probably my favorite with a great story and actual use of gen 2 mons unlike actual gen 2.
There's TONS of people that genuinely love Orre. In fact, Colosseum and XD are the most emulated GameCube games! In fact, a remaster/remake for those two on Switch is a common sentiment. I also grew up with XD, having Ruby as my first main game, and I can't tell you how much XD got me into the franchise. Where Ruby lost me with going to Mt. Pyre (because I didn't pay attention), XD was there in all of its 3D glory to save pokemon.
Don’t forget the best part of Stadium 1 & 2, the Dodrio Tower. Playing the games at 3x speed was a godsend, and this was before we had emulators and speed boost was a normal thing. Also, the mini game modes were super fun with friends
Yeah he left out a ton of good stuff with those games
Honestly seemed disingenuous to say they games had nothing to do but battle in the battle tower - playing the GBC games on the big screen and endless hours of mini games with my sister was almost exclusively how I played it as a kid.
The thing that's most special about those games in retrospect is how strange they were, how different to every other Pokemon game before or since, especially now that the series is a yearly franchise that takes very few risks and does much the same kind of thing every year. The idea of a full story Pokemon game without wild battles was *unthinkable* but they went for it, taking a big risk with one of their mainline franchises (even if it was a spinoff and not a main entry, it was the first 'full' Pokemon game on a TV console rather than a handheld so it was still a big deal). Not everything worked perfectly but they tried to do something different and those games are still memorable as a result
GameCube era was a good time.
The final boss of Gale of Darkness feels like an OU team meant for Gen 1 competitive tournaments.
It's such a thrill snagging all 6 pokemon from Greevil. I'd say it's a top 5 battle for me.
Seeing the way the studio did their own take on animations and models before Gamefreak did makes me wonder why Gamefreak/The Pokemon Company don't outsource that shit to another studio so Gamefreak can focus on polishing the gameplay/story/region since that would be a massive weight off their shoulders.
The thing is, they technically do. Creatures Inc, which co-owns the Pokemon company alongside Nintendo and GameFreak, are responsible for the models and animations of the 3D titles. They actually had a department made specifically for that purpose. GameFreak is just a small company that isn’t able to handle the scope and content needed for 3D games
@@Batterskull oh. Guess there is no hope after all then lmao
@@Xaveze Yup time to bring out the firing squad, they burned enough of our money time to get it back fair and square😌😌
@@aturchomicz821 God if only that was an option. Unfortunately an endless horde of diehard fans would just continuously throws themselves in front of the bullets in order to protect the billion dollar company that would rather release mediocre games than give their devs more than three god damn years to make a good one.
@@Batterskull even worse. Creatures is majority owned by Nintendo. So technically Nintendo could use that influence to push the pokemon company to increase funding and time for the games BUT WON'T
As someone who just started AI: Nirvana Initiative, your Umbreon and Espeon names are great.
I think the easiest thing the mainline games could grab from these old 3D games for an instant improvement, is the camera. The camera is just non-existant in Scarlet and Violet for... Obvious reasons (outside of gym battles anyway). But even in the 3DS games, battles are shot in a very boring and static fashion. As a result, it really dulls a lot of the impact that the moves used to have in the old games.
With VGC growing in popularity, I've always been baffled by there not being a double battle only game since XDGOD.
Just a slight nitpick/correction but Own Tempo prevents confusion, not sleep. That’s Insomnia and Vital Spirit.
That said, great retrospective. I adore both Colosseum and XD with all my heart so it’s nice to see a CZcamsr I love talking about them. I really think a third game while Game Freak works on ironing out Scarlet and Violet would do well in today’s world. The GameCube didn’t sell well and both games came a bit into the console’s lifecycle while the Switch is still doing record numbers to this day. I’d buy it day one.
espeon and umbreon were always my favs, but colosseum cemented it for the long haul
Haven’t clicked this fast in a long, long time.
Same haha!
Exactly brav lmao!
Same af
Surprised you never brought up the mini games when talking about the Stadium games. They’re such a huge part of their legacy and often looked on more fondly than the actual battling.
I don't think I attempted a single challenge twice in either game, but damn if I don't have a few hundred plays on every minigame
When praising the battle CDs, you should‘ve mentioned the Pokémon Academy in Stadium 2. Did you play that? There was very similar stuff in there, with highly specific battle challenges, and framed in an even more tasteful way. I really loved that as a kid. It taught me so much about high-level Pokémon play. And makes a lot of sense to put that in a game as tough and battle-focused as Stadium 2.
Stad2's Academy is also interesting because it also mentions mechanics that went over the fanbase's head for years (iirc it noted the Gen 1 mechanic where damaging moves that could inflict non-volatile statuses couldn't inflict those statuses on 'mons that shared the move's type [eg. Body Slam couldn't paralyse normal-types]).
Things I'm surprised you didn't mention: For one, the Purify Chamber. You showed it, but didn't talk about it. That thing helps SO MUCH for purifying. A second thing about Colosseum vs XD? Colo only lets you save at PC's, while XD returned it to saving anywhere. (Which made dungeons in Colo even MORE of a challenge, because now you have to find a place to save if you have to quit the game for a session. That is annoying as hell.) Or, how's this? Maybe you didn't know, but there's a way to make the Greevil fight WAY easier. How? Before you go on the lift, place your weakest Pokemon in the box. Make sure you have your Master Ball. Then when you battle Shadow Lugia, you can just toss the Master Ball, and of course, one-shot catch it. THEN, because you have a free slot, for the fight against Greevil proper, you actually get to use Lugia against him. (And feel smug that his pride and joy Pokemon is now something he must fight against.) And Lugia, against a full 6 Shadow team? Tanky as hell. I have NEVER had Lugia go down against Greevil. Lugia can just DOMINATE his team, but not overly so if you're eager to catch them. Oh, here's another semi-fun fact in XD, that I only know of due to the wiki: Apparently, if you do the Mt. Battle challenge, and beat it, in full, without taking a break, you'll be gifted a Johto starter. And you could actually redo it all until you get all 3. Or likely even more, if you wanted to trade some away. Granted, this means 100 battles in a row. No healing in between except for items you bring with you.
In XD MT. Battle is so great because you get free heals after every battle so its just a gauntlet of 100 battles that you simply can't leave the facility, not sure if you can adjust your team. (Still a pain/slog but not nearly as difficult as only healing with your own items)
Also as part of the post game you can get a guaranteed lucky egg. (That could in theory be traded to emerald to dupe it) Also it can trade with any of the mainline games after you free Phenec city, and meet the requirements of the mainline games which is usually beat the Elite 4.
@@jasonreed7522yes and no on the trading with the main titles. It’s not simply freeing phenac, if i recall correctly. Like Colosseum you have to purify all the shadows to unlock it.
Favorite part of stadium was the mini games. They were so fun at parties as a kid.
yeah you can tell he didnt really play stadium as a youngling, the mini games were legendary
Also you could play the game boy games on a TV screen with the transfer pak. AND could be played in rapid speed too!
This video reminded me of my absolute love of Pokémon colosseum, flaws and all, and makes me want to dig up a way for me to play it again.
I'm surprised he didn't mention the soundtracks. In my opinion, Colosseum and XD have some of the best soundtracks in the series. Absolute bangers, never fails to get me pumped up.
I think Stadium's minigames would be great in a Pokken 2: Pokken similarly shows off more well animated battles (see below) and It could not only add casual and party game content to a title otherwise very focused on a competitive traditional fighting game experience (contrary to how it may seem, the game has unique movelists, attack heights, cancels, just-frames, etc: Very much more Street Fighter, less Naruto UNS, but i'll talk about high level competitive Pokken stuff further down), but would also be a fantastic way to actually teach fighting game concepts: The minigames already focus on precise timing, pattern recognition, reaction speeds, and memorization, which is exactly what combo timing, responding to mixups, punishing unsafe moves, and other fighting game concepts are all about. Street Fighter 6 is actually doing this with minigames, too!
I actually also think Pokken is sort of a successor to the Stadium games in that like how Stadium was made to show off Pokemon in 3d when the series was 2d; now that Pokemon is also 3d, Pokken sort of shows what Pokemon battles could be like without the turn based system, and with more specific, detailed animations: There's a LOT of character and flavor packed into how each Pokemon in Pokken is presented:
Sceptile, for example, is characterized as a Ninja: He throws out leaf shuriken that spin in place in the air as space control moves, lays bullet seed and leech seed traps, uses leaf blade like a Iaijutsu katana slash, uses a substitute log as a counter, and even has Leaf Storm represented as an izuna drop, a hallmark for fighting game ninjas. Scizor, meanwhile, is animated like a mecha: one of his intros is based on the classic gundam launch sequence, he gains energy jet boostes coming out of his wings, charges up his claws like cannons, and in his super, even gains Victory/butterfly gundam energy wings. I could go on and on: Weavile tries to act edgy and cool, but a lot of his animations also have him smiling or being cute if you slow them down or from hard to see angles, with him trying to correct and hide it when it happens in victory/iintro animations. Braixen is characterized as a magical girl, Machamp has absolutely gigachad gym bro energy, Gengar will try to interact with the UI, etc. The backgrounds, while not WELL animated, also have an impressive amount of sense of place with how they use Pokemon and people in urban spaces, small towns, ruins, etc (one of my favorite examples is there's a mirror on the Haunted House stage, that a few times mid match will show the inside the distortion world and Giratina flying by) It's easy to see why Pokken made TPCI use bandai for Snap's sequel
The title also does a really cool job incorporating references to other Pokemon media and animations: Charizard's Siesmic Toss and Lucario's Bone Rush are animated as they are shown in the anime, while Gardevoir's super uses a black hole, a reference to her Pokedex entries. Hyper Beam has a huge amount of recovery/endlag frames where Mewtwo staggers for a bit, to represent how in the games it leaves you vulnerable. Hex is a long range grab chandelure has that does more damage the more debuffs the target has, etc.
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All that said about how I think the Stadium minigames would be a good fit and how it carries on the Stadium tradition of good animations, now i'm gonna talk about Pokken from a competitive context:
Firstly, the game is amazingly well balanced: Even "low tier" characters regularly make top 8 placements at major events, there's a pretty wide amount of playstyle variety between the cast with character specific mechanics and room for player expression where even two players of the same character will use them very differently; and the 2d-3d phase shift system and the unique way it handles height states really emphasis mindgames, neutral, and fundamentals. (neutral being the state in a match when both players are trying to get a hit in and trip each other up or to otherwise put themselves in an advantageous position; Fundamentals being like the fundamental skill and knowlege of mindgamnes, making the right decisions, and core game knowledge rather then like reaction timing or the ability to do long combos)
To clarify, the 2d-3d shift system acts as an anti-infinite system for the 2d phase that forces a return to neutral, the 3d phase acting as an extended buffer layer of neutral play, and most importantly, does a lot to emphasize adaptation and reduce flowcharting (where players just constantly use the same responses to a give situation without mixing things up): Different moves, on hit, will add more or less PSP to the hidden phase shift point guage, which determines when a 2d to 3d shift happens.
So at a high level of play, players will constantly be changing up their move choices and combo routes and composition up to ensure that their combos end right when a shift occurs to maximize damage and avoid their combo being interrupted, and also to manipulate when shifts happen based on if they feel like shifting faster or slower is more to their advantage in that moment, or the character matchup, etc: For example, it may be better to go with a less safe or less damaging combo that keeps the enemy in the corner and under pressure that might lead to higher long term damage upsides vs doing your full optimal that would cause a shift and break them out of pressure, sort of like a reset. On the other hand, maybe it might be better to do a combo that shifts right away or adds extra PSP even if it's less optimal or safe, because you need to get out of pressure, or because being the one that causes a shift gives you meter and health regen. Some moves can also reduce the PSP guage, too.
I also mentioned how Pokken handles attack heights differently, to the point where a lot of people don't realize it has a height system (the tutorial not explaining the height system at all or the PSP guage doesn't help here): Rather then heights being a tool for you to bypass and punish blocking, heights in Pokken exist as a way to bypass and punish moves during their active frames. Having specific moves that are invulnerable to moves of specific heights isn't too rare in fighting games, like launchers in DBFZ, but in Pokken the entire height system is designed around that sort of thing, and there's also 6 different height states, much more then in most. This means that there's way more opportunities to preform reversals and either turn being pressured into you having the advantage, or, like the phase system, to at least break back into neutral play.
I think it's a really awesome game, and if you have a Switch, like fighting games, and like Pokemon, I think it's well worth checking out. The Pokken Supercombo page has links to a ton of resources, and you can find the main community dishcrd pretty easily via google
I was literally just looking up kingk Pokemon colosseum earlier today to see if you had one on it and now this pops up. Nice!
You make my commute to and from work less painful :)
Loved Colosseum as a kid. I loved not knowing what to expect against boss trainers and that they had actually teams that were challenging to defeat. I do think the large leaps in difficulty just create artificial length to the game particularly the Evice fight. I don't mind a little grind, but I don't want to have spend an entire afternoon on Mt Battle just to have a realistic chance at the fight. XD did a much better job at this, so at least they learned from the error in the first game.
Great video.
For that boring dungeon inf Colosseum, I can't recommend enough that you leave your shadow pokemon in Hyper mode. I know the temptation is there to call them out of it every time, it does help clear that shadow bar and stuff, but especially when it's already at zero, simply leave them in hyper mode and blaze through that part of the game with guaranteed shadow rush crits. Has helped me suffer through that part on multiple occasions.
Alright, as someone who actually experienced Stadium 1 and 2 at the time, I feel like you really didn't do a good job covering them in this video. The mini games were such a fun part of these games, my friends and I would spend hours and hours just playing those and I know were weren't the only ones who loved them. And then you could also play the GB games on the TV screen which was a huge deal!! What's more, you were able to unlock Dodrio mode so you could play the GB games with increased speed. It was just so incredible being able to play the GB games on TV and then use the Pokémon you trained in those games for your battles in Stadium! There were also cool "secrets" like being able to obtain a Pikachu with Surf if you used the Pikachu from Yellow in a certain cup or getting to battle against Mewtwo! Please don't take my comment the wrong way, I love your videos but man I wish you would have gone a bit more into Stadium 1 and 2.
Yeah, I kind of felt that; and I'd add that Colosseum had a whole Battle Mode which is about half the game and didn't get any mentions. I enjoyed the video a lot, though, and agreed with many of its points.
@@jonathanlgill Yeah, he kinda skipped the battle simulator parts of the GameCube games, and how they at least they compare on that aspect to Stadium (2).
Stadium mini games were a big part of what made me love Pokémon back then. Iconic soundtracks and visuals. It helped make the world feel like more than just a battleground
@@danieldorn6542 I don't have the quote here off the top of my head, but basically KingK implied that Pokemon Stadium was "just" about the battles / cups you can do in 3D. That's the substance of the game, for sure, but it's potentially a bit misleading when the minigames are side diversions that break up the more drawn-out, intensive cup-style gameplay. Their lighthearted, easy to pick-up-and-play feel is actually quite a good way to round out the experience.
He mentioned the bingo minigame in XD, and a few of its other bells and whistles, so I don't see any reason not to at least very briefly cover the minigames, even if it's just a sentence or two to acknowledge them.
@@danieldorn6542 No of course he doesn't have to go into every little detail but I honestly thought he didn't give enough credit to Pokémon Stadium as a whole.
The memories I have playing XD and Colosseum are some of my fondest gaming experiences. XD was the first Gamecube game I played, making it all the more special.
I genuinely admire the effort and skill it takes to make videos like this but my God I find OPs voice/narration style soporific.
I gotta say, the footage of the stadium games really encapsulates the aesthetic and spirit that pokemon is to me. Its refreshing and relaxing after a few gens of 3D haven't gotten it
Excellent job with this, KingK. Gale of Darkness was actually my first Pokémon game despite having grown up with the cards and anime, so the whole vibe and experience of that game holds a special place in my heart
Even though I don’t like the state of modern pokemon and have a lot of nostalgia for colosseum, I’m not gonna rip your head off for your takes. I really enjoyed this one! Fun fact: those battle CDs were really tough for me as a kid, but the Machamp earthquake one I will always remember because it taught me the extra dig damage mechanic. Also, the tropius one that taught me about gust interacting with fly, I always remember that one too. Glad you shouted them out!
PS, nice nicknames! I especially like Mizuki the Espeon :)
Anyone wanting to go through XD with modernized mechanics, switched up shadow mons, and a scoop of extra difficulty, try the XG romhack - I went through it just a couple weeks ago and really enjoyed it. Only weird part is that many mons have modified stats to make them stand out more, or to account for their gen IV evolutions - Togetic, Murkrow, etc. are much stronger, but it's cool. The level range of the whole game is raised - I actually got to use a fully evolved pseudo-legendary for a good chunk of the game. It hands out tools like candy to build a team, like a free move tutor in Agate Town that can give you Sunny Day or Rain Dance to prepare a themed squad.
I always had the idea of a return to Orre involving its own Grand Underground with new Pokemon and regional forms.
Idea was that it’d be discovered recently, leading to an information gold mine where people from several regions come to Orre to study these new Pokemon, even overwhelming the crime element through sheer numbers alone with Cipher’s remnants being its only crime group holding on. Also maybe the Champion role is shared between Wes and Rui and it’s a double battle.
That Miror B battle theme will always be one of my favorites
"If you're smart you'll save your master ball for the endgame"
I came across a dupe glitch where on your first move you use the master ball, and on your second you go into your inventory and swap it with a stack of pokeballs and the game will use the master ball, but take a pokeball. It made getting the legendary dogs a piece of piss
I'm glad you mentioned that the Orre Region is based on Phoenix, Arizona, It's a nice little fact.
I was literally rewatching your Black and White Retrospective when this was recommended to me! Love your in depth videos.
Colosseum was my first Pokémon game because I never had a portable console, my parents thought it would distract me from school.
Colosseum is why Umbreon is my favorite eeveelution. I'll never get over how I had to sell it when I was a kid because my mom was convinced pokemon was "the devil" 😐
i still play with stadium 2 with my friends to this day, the rental system was perfect as we go with an RNG roll and get a random team. the rentals really make that an option i'd love very much for a modern take on that. as battle revolution was a huge disappointment that it lacked that feature.
You've probably been told this already, but correction at 17:33 - Own Tempo makes you immune to being Confused, not an immunity to sleep.
Even if Orre is pronounced "or-ray", I'm gonna keep pronouncing it like "ore". I mean, it's rocks.
The quality in the animations of the Pokemon, for Pokemon colosseum, was absolutely impressive. Each Pokemon is surprisingly detailed. I wish the mainline games would simply take the animations from the GameCube games, and use them for the main games. Pokemon stadium is also shockingly high quality.
I would agree, but if you take those animations then the game would probably double in length for how long those animations take.
@@Magic_Ice Some would do like it (I don't super mind animations as long as they're interesting) but I do think a fast-forward button (think Miitopia...and a lot other modern RPGs) could be implemented.
@@Magic_Ice fair point. But then again, modern Pokemon games still slowly tell you, "your Pokemon evaded the attack because it likes you" or "your Pokemon will not listen to you", and that's not to say the text for being poisoned, confused, paralyzed. There are still animations that are too slow depending on the attack and the Pokemon being used. I'm just saying, give Pokemon more advanced animations during the attacking phase. If you'd rather not see animations, they sometimes give you the option to not show animations.
@@deepmind5318 Kinda true but could you imagine how awful tera raids would take if each attack animation was like 10 seconds long. Would be awful.
@@Magic_Ice I disagree Set PC and XD to Animations off next time and compare game is faster than the GBA games the same way and way faster than the glitchy mess the DS games were as it would incorrectly calculate then recalculate every point of damage.
You can re battle trainers in the overworld in Colosseum too. You don't necessarily have to go to Mt. Battle to train your shadow Pokemon or to grind
im writing this to you before I watch the video because of how excited I am. this game was one of my very first Pokemon experiences and it was s much fun as a kid. as I write this im flooded with nostalgic memories im already thankful for this video popping up on my feed
I was excited too, but unfortunately he just shits on them most of the time like he does with most games these days
@@joshuah.4496 I think he just doesn't like the pacing and the lack of team building, although for a traditional RPG, I think he did credit that the GameCube games did it fine - although I do notice many Pokemon fans typically are turned off by some traditional RPG tropes.
Holy crap, your analysis of Colosseum makes me like it way more. Cipher really does control Orre and it gives Wes the underdog role.
Playing the Pokémon Stadium games with my friends in daycare after school back in the day was amazing
a lot of hours put into darkenss and the CDs for me and it felt rewarding
There's a great rom hack called "XG: NeXt Gen" if you want to play XD with more shadow pokemon and moves. It' was a blast replaying XD revamped.
I'm not into competitive Pokemon at all, but you make it sound so interesting that it makes me want to know more about it.
Then you should try Pokémon Showdown, as that's a browser game that let's you easily play and experience what competitive Pokémon is like while making team building very fast, tho it will likely take a bit to learn what works and what doesn't at first.
FalseSwipeGaming here on CZcams does a tooooon videos about Competitive Pokemon and they're fun/easy to follow even if you don't know a lot about it. I learned a lot from watching them!
Everyone talks about the minigames in Stadium (and they’re great!) but I’m surprised I never hear anyone talk about how you could use the Pokémon lab to freely transfer and store both Pokémon AND items from your GB games. Especially items, since you STILL can only transfer things one item at a time via trade otherwise.
Also, this is not a criticism exactly, but I always find it funny when people complain about “too many battles” in a Pokémon game, or any RPG really. Battles are the main core of the gameplay, everything revolves around it. To catch Pokémon, you battle them. Most items you collect on the field are for battle. Occasionally Pokémon tries to have side modes like contests, but they often don’t stick around because people are really here for the traditional battles.
Now I get not wanting to fight every random encounter, or avoiding battles for a challenge run. But here in the GC games, there are NO random encounters to deal with. I’d rather go through a Trainer gauntlet than face 5000 Zubat and Golbat going through a cave.
And to be clear, you’re not “wrong” for thinking it’s too battle-focused, and you’re not the only one who thinks this way. I just always find it interesting when someone on a casual playthrough of a game wants to avoid the main core of the gameplay.
I do also agree about the criticism for grunt gautlets as somehow a bad thing for an RPG is very odd when I thought the appeal of RPGs are the feeling of battling and a LOT like a 1 vs. 1000 kind of overcoming the odds.
he is wrong for thinking it's too battle focused tho. thats like picking up a fighting game and complaining that there arent enough car chase sections... too much fighting... lol which unironically ive actually heard people complain about.
he's also wrong for totally disrespecting the stadium games. those games were absolutely fantastic at the time. And still hold up well today (at least stadium 2. since those are closer to the modern mechanics).
Gale of darkness was my first game.
I loved exploring the world. It was so enthralling as a kid.
My Husband and I played XD a few months ago. After playing through the main story, we built up a solid team to take on the Orre colosseum, going to Mt. battle to EV train, completing battle Bingo and the Battle CD's in the process. Our recent play though was the most fun I've had with the game, mainly because I was sharing the experience with someone. 😄
What is your team?
@@IkanaMaskedMan
We played with the following for beating the Orre Colosseum: Starmie, Salamance, Tauros, Dragonite, Tyranitar and Zapdos. We also had Breloom, as a swap from time to time.
Stadium 1 isn’t just the Gen 1 jank, it’s Gen 1 jank with the luck highly favoring the CPU’s team
the best part of pokemon stadium were the completely redone pokemon cries in stadium 2 that made them sound like actual animals instead of just importing the 8 bit crunch into a modern game. It really recontextualized what those little gameboy scratches actually were supposed to be
Having beat the game and post-game for Pokémon Stadium with rental only is true pain and suffering. In the stadium, the highest tournament there is an old gentleman trainer with the legendary birds, and their sky attacks never miss. The CPU are insane in that game.
I would like to point out an oversight you made in the case of Colosseum. The cologne case is in Colosseum as well, and is the fastest way to purify shadow pokemon. You get it in Agate Village, after defeating Dakim.
Even though the Stadiums were just battle sims with plenty of distractions I still like them, more than Revolution, that's for sure. I think they could do another one to get ALL pokemon in there now that its not guaranteed in the mainline games. There are ways to give it more fun options, without just resorting to adding a story mode. Maybe customizing rental pokemon's movepools after clearing certain cups? Honestly as a kid I always saw the rentals' to be its own little strategy game to see what tools I could put together to beat the various challenges.
I also just discovered the Composer(s) behind the stadium games great arrangements went on to do alot of songs for Windwaker, Animal Crossing, and Splatoon!
I still go back and listen to music from those two games, I love them very much. For the first time now in years, I feel a somewhat similar itch being scratched by Violet and Scarlet. They aren't perfect games either, but the itch I've needed to scratch from these old games is starting to be dealt with. And that's big for me.
Another fun tidbit about XD is the sneak peek of Gen 4 with the inclusion of Munchlax and Bonsly. And I swear, both of them seemed to have the function of pissing the player off. Bonsly has a whole segment where you have to chase it around a shipwreck and try to trap it and Munchlax occasionally pops up eating the lures set out for wild Pokemon. And you cant catch it, it just takes off. So you have to set another lure and hope Munchlax doesn't pop up, and you wasted a huge amount of time going out there and back because you only have a small amount of time to get out there before the Pokemon flees. I know that it's mean to be a preview for Diamond and Pearl, but I cant help but love the foreshadowing for how slow and frustrating Diamond and Pearl are.
Pokémon Colosseum was my introduction to Gen 3, such a nostalgic game for me.
Noticed you named the legendary beasts in Colosseum after the Warring Triad from FFVI/XIV, that's neat
Colosseum made me a fan of the steel type as a whole, solely because of the defensive power of Forretress and the hard hitting Scissor.
At the 18 min mark I started feeling a deep nostalgia, because growing up I only had a Game Cube with Colosseum and used to play it everyday after school. But once you broke down the cut scene durations and brought up the excessive amounts of trainer battles, I started getting legit PTSD hahaha! Preciate you for the nostalgia and the pain lol
Lets not forget the most important part about Stadium 1 and 2: You could play both Gen 1 and Gen 2 at faster speeds on the TV screen by using the Transfer Pak on the N64... And then use the Pokemons you catched on the Stadium Towers, 3D Pokedex and free battles against your friends.
The minigames were a great way to pass the time with everybody after a few battles as well. You could say that without Stadium 1 or Stadium 2, the games themselves feel incomplete, as it's the best way to play them.
Removing the ability to skip battle animations is unforgiveable, makes the Gamecube games a much bigger chore to play.
*POV: Its 2003 and you are an Intern at the biggest Pokémon Forum on the world wide web, you are just getting settled into the daily bog at the creative offices and while you are smoking a medical blunt of cannabis you are working out the kinks of a Pre-Alpha version of BulbaPedia. You are just about to begin creating a page for Pokémon Colosseum, a Pokémon game thats fully in 3D thats not just a battle simulator! Its story shook you to the core and you absolutely didnt expect that Pokémon could have such a goddam good story, it was simply a real masterpiece. Life, and in extension, **_Pokemon_** was still good. "Its how things should always be." you thought to yourself, oh if only things were that simple alright😪...*
12:16 Man theres a lot of things that I just hate about the idea of playing these games but holy shit like what even is that build up and guitar?? Wtf its so good??😩🎸
29:00 Politics of the 21st century am I right Grassroot movement organizers🗿🗿
43:10 Haha yeah imagine if the Japanese government would Nationalize The Pokémon company, it would be the perfect way to end this free market disaster😋
Pokemon XD was my first game out of all of them to get a level 100 pokemon, which was my starter Jolteon, and special fondness for lunatone, breloom, and claydol.
I appreciate for both colosseum and XD they gave you more obscure pokemon to use in your arsenal, more sidequests/distractions from just battling and catching shadow pokemon, a legitimately hard and carefully thought out orre colosseum with some of the most impressively, controller throwing, hard trainers I've ever fought in all of the games, and the only games to make double battles the main way to fight and making good use, REALLY good use at moments.
These games are very impressive at the time, and I still say with some heavy nostalgia breathing down my neck, that these games could EASILY get a release on the switch and everyone will. Eat. It. Up.
Atleast that's what i think anyways, XD will always a have a special place in my heart.
I would die for my future sons to get a Colosseum and XD Remasters
People's reaction to Slowing skill swap with Slaking never gets old.
When the realization of what just happened kicks in the only possible reaction is "oh god, im gonna die".
Slaking is the ultimate monster only tamed by its ability that is litterally just a nerf. (If turn number is odd, then do nothing)
Normally (in singles) ability swapping moves are useless unless you are gifting away a bad ability because you can't rely on the opponent having a specific ability, in doubles you suddenly can control 2 abilities and this sort of strat becomes possible. (Its gets worse if you first have the ability you want to give to slaking out, swap it to slowking, and then bring out slaking and give him something like guts or speedboost.)
If you want to try these games out with all the bells and whistles of a Drayano hack, then you should check out Grand Colosseum and xG Gale of Darkness! They're difficulty hacks that implement the physical/special split, Fairy type and much more
I’ve always loved the GameCube games. Colosseum for the game/story and difficulty during the game and XD for the incredible challenge in end-game in the form of the Orre Colosseum.
Orre Colosseum is so hard that I’ve barely seen anyone take it on in a playthrough. It requires dedicated team building and complementary team composition. You can’t just bring whatever which is wat I truly appreciated in XD. You could still use whatever you wanted, but had to build around it
i cant believe you left out the mini games when talking about stadium 1 and 2. those things were the jam
This was one of my all time favorite Pokémon games, along with XD Gale of darkness.
Love it!
I know that the 3d games got flaws, but I got into the series in X and Y and have always loved the 3D games
Stadium 2 had solid minigames
It just occurred to me that the localization team for XD might have mistranslated Lovrina's name. In Japanese, R and L sounds share the same character, in this case, " リ." Therefore, maybe her name was supposed to be "Lovlina," making a pun off the word "Lovely."
So that's why Brock has a vulpix and a Zubat in the anime! It was in stadium first!
If you want a more enhanced XD Gale experience, I highly recommend seeking out an ISO hack titled Pokemon XG: NeXt Gen. More Pokemon are available, on the Shadow and wild side. More attacks, abilities, stats, and types (including Fairy) to make it as up to date with gen 8 as possible. More Shadow moves that can definitely surprise you. And maybe one or two unique mons along the way, even catchable mons. It's supposed to be getting a few updates soon but whenever that happens, I couldn't tell you. I love this challenge mode and hope it scratches any itches you may have.
Battle Revolution, even being as barebones as it is, is (to this day) the best-looking official Pokemon battle simulator. It has full unique animations for all Pokemon, new/upgraded models, and the attack animations are top-notch. I still thoroughly enjoy that game, especially the Trade Battles.
My family had a Gale of Darkness special edition GameCube growing up. That game always brings me back good memories.
Greevil being a Gen Wunner is pretty funny. He's just got Gen 1 OU Staples and Moltres to finish the trio
Lovely, I get to see a king k poke retrospective on the first day it's out! Thanks King K!! I've now had fun today
A KingK video always feels like Christmas came early. Hope you enjoy the holidays and have an amazing 2023!
Colosseum and XD ran so that the switch titles could crawl
I think that colosseum's limited # of pokemon adds to more creative teambuilding than a regular pokemon game...
Just think about the same-teams you see in pokemon games... Think about sinnoh... Everyone's got garchomp, everyone's got starraptor, lucario, etc.
I have waited long for your vid on this. XD is in my top 3 games of all time. Great job man!
XD and Colosseum are so fun to this day, especially if you post using a randomizer(some will give you the physical/special split as well)
Also, to this day the sound track in these games are the best in any pokemon games hands down.
Pokemon's 3D games before Game Freak on her quinceanera gets the keys to the car and promptly smashes the bumper by having the car in reverse, revs in neutral for a while, and then smashes into the nearest tree full speed, but miraculously survives...were good. They were a glimpse into a possible future where had Game Freak taken the time to form a 3D task force and pipeline, could have stepped into 3D development with confidence, instead of recreating beat for beat, the scene where Sideshow Bob steps on every last rake.
And it's stupid how even today, the Orre games look better than a modern pokemon game released in 2022 and the horror stories we've heard/seen of their incompetent frankenengine when it's clear their boss is the main obstacle of the franchise developing from it's absolutely dated central conceits like that bell that dings at the end of every sentence like we're at a pissing Remington.
Half the fun of a Pokemon world should be in exploring it and seeing the amazing vistas they have to offer, and yet their worlds and lore building have become flatter than DAGGERFALL. Hell, one of my dream Pokemon experiances would be a battle free game where you're a field research sent to correct or expand upon the pokedex's various entries!
Then, when they *TRY TO BRANCH OUT TO SOMETHING* that should be more in their field, they make Little Town Hero and basically impale themselves on their own sword, dooming themselves to the Pokemon mines forever.
It's a billion dollar franchise and more and more does it feel like they've cut every last corner where they can instead of overpolishing it to an annoyingly dazzling sheen that I have to look at with sunglasses because it's so cool.
I thought about writing a very long essay since Col and XD are probably my two favourite Pokémon games and while I agree with a lot of stuff, some of the things that bother you, don't bother me at all and I also think reused animations etc. are absolutely fine but honestly the only thing I think is worth criticising about the video (altough it might just come down to a difference in opinions like the other things) is that you didn't talk about the music. In my opinion Col and XD have some of the best music in the entire franchise and if I made a Top 100 list of my favourite gaming songs, there'd probably be multiple tracks from those games in it. I love the music of those games so much.
Apart from that great video though. Love to hear someone finally talk about the games, I feel like they're often underrepresented in Pokémon discourse.