Remington-Lee Model 1879
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- čas přidán 3. 09. 2015
- / forgottenweapons
When we think of James Paris Lee, we usually think of the British family of Lee-Enfield rifles. However, the US Navy actually adopted an early version of Lee's action before the British, in 1879. In addition, this rifle was the first use of the detachable box magazine, a patented invention of Lee's.
Lee initially took his design to the Sharps company, because Remington (where he did have ties form previous firearms endeavors) was trying to push the tube-magazine Remington-Keene rifle into military service. Lee's design was founded on an attempt to improve upon the tube magazine, and Remington did not want to divide its efforts at that time. The superintendent of the Sharps company at that time was Hugo Borchardt, and he was able to devise an effective way to manufacture Lee's box magazine. The Navy's 300 guns were put into production, but Sharps fell into bankruptcy before they were completed.
By this time, the Army had rejected the Remington-Keene, and Lee was able to interest the company in his rifle. He took the partial receivers from Sharps over to Remington, where the rifle order was completed and delivered. More sales would follow, and Remington would slowly improve the rifle bit by bit. Tomorrow, we will take a look at the 1885 model...
Another rifle I wasn't aware of. It is interesting to note we had a detachable box magazine in '79. It really makes the Krag seem like a step backward.
+Gun Sense (drmaudio) My thought aswell. How come the detachable mag was not in wider use earlier?
This gun predates ww2 by 60 years.
+spottless perhaps they figured that stripper clips were faster and cheaper. The soldier could just keep grabbing stripper clips and throwing them into the gun and shoot for as long as they had ammo.
With the box magazines they had access to a nice ready supply of it but once they emptied the magazines the reloading time would be more difficult, and they would need to store the rounds for transport in some way anyway. With the stripper clip at least the storage and usage are sort of combined.
+Gun Sense (drmaudio) Mass production. From that POV the clip is cheaper to make. Is it backwards? From our perspective, yes, from theirs, probably not. Remember, different times, different experiences.
@@aserta the Krag didn't have stripper clips you had to load rounds in single or 2s
The innovation from James Paris Lee was the box magazine. That was the bit that made the Lee Enfield, a LEE Enfield (just like the prior LEE Metford).
This gun is like the epitome of 'ahead of its time', at least in pure looks it's quite amazing, would not have thought this was an 1879 rifle. :)
+Roll Fizzlebeef I agree, its amazing to think this existed in 1879. Especially considering major countries/military's (ie the US) were still using single shot rifles.
+Roll Fizzlebeef I get that reference. Also, totally agree with you. That looks like an 1890s-era rifle.
Not really considering Vetterli made a bolt action tube feed rifle for the swiss since 1866 - the italian 1870 Vetterli had a box magazine instead of the earlier tube.
Its james lee what did you expect
That is some seriously clever mechanical design with the little detente button and the pop out blade.
Amazing to see the great grandfather of the Lee-Enfield.
Rifleman Moore Father... the Lee-Metford came out nine years later.
Wow. This rifle seems to be about 20 years ahead of it's time. Thanks for the video.
Sharps sold their receivers because they were in receivership.
How appropriate! :)
This is such a good rifle, seems very simple with effective features.
That's really a clever and impressive design. Even with a few minor but noticeable design flaws (no safety? No easy way to remove a non-empty magazine and not spill rounds every where) there is some solid concept going on here. The retracting receiver plate is especially keen,
Though I have to jump off the wagon when the instructions for field stripping were basically, "jam a screw driver in there and donk with it till it comes apart."
Still, a great collector item.
This is the only channel I consistently watch and am excited to see a notification update for. Keep up the good work, sir.
+antiseen Thanks!
Really enjoying these “legacy” videos, Ian. Thank you for keeping them alive.
Amazing piece, far ahead of its time, but i can see the "fear" to adopt this, from the perspective of the time. Sure, today it's standard, but back then, it was genuinely an awe factor.
I just wanted to go to your most recent video to say thank you for this channel! It's wonderfully informative, extremely professional and your obvious passion for this subject shines through in every video. I'm hooked!
Some nice features on this rifle. The retraining tab was very well design, especially since it pushes out of the way when inserted into the rifle. Also the little shelf that makes the rifle easy to single load when the magazine was out really shows some foresight about things possible going wrong in combat.
Gotta give Lee some Credit
If it wasn't for these Rifles, We might of never got the Famous Lee-Enfield
Great video presentation always learn something new from you Ian. Cheers
Thats a cool little bit of history. I never new the Lee started it life in the Navy.
James P. Lee & John M. Browning lived in an extraordinary time. Firearms were an everyday item and their intelligence prevailed.
fascinating design, I can see why it survived where other early bolt actions did not.
New videos everyday. This is great!
Very interesting information about the development of the Lee-zen field. Always learn some remarkable facts about firearms and history. Great channel!!!
My bad, Lee-Enfield 👍
Very innovative.
So cool. Love your videos
Very cool! I got to hold one of these last week when I visited a friend of my grandpa's. That man had an example of (I think) every American rifle from the Mexican American war to WW2.
Damn those are some brilliant features they came up with.
You're the best, Ian!
The magazine even LOOKS like the mag on the Lee Enfield.
Precious peace of history.
Wow. That's a cool and relatively forgotten rifle. Interesting!
Excellent!
if they converted this to 8mm lebel in 1886, they would had an awesome rifle even for WW2 standards
the original Original Thanks for the low-down, interesting the navy was first.
Brian Miller At that time the navy was interested in advanced technologies , while the army was reluctant to change .
I'm a simple man, I see John Paris Lee's name I press like.
Probably nobody paying attention to this video anymore but there are a few mistakes. The veterli vitaki and the dutch beaumont had charger clips by this time. Yes they were fixed mags but they did have chargers
I officially love this rifle.
Even though i live in europe, and not old enough to own a weapon, i still find your videos very interesting :)
When your old enough go and get one bolt actions are fun and although I never fired .45-70 the caliber seems very cool.
I not REALY in to OLD old fierarms....but this one is beautiful!!
James lee is like the john browing of bolt guns
Any idea why this wasn't more popular among militaries of the time? This is a far superior design then the trap door springfield and the martini henry, and definetly better then the Russian berdan or French Gras?
Few militaries liked the idea of repeating fire at the time.
@@mr.bobcyndaquil4214 it should be noted that that was mostly because trying to make repeating firearms with the old black powder rifles ended up being too messy in the rifle and would not reliably cycle so once again the generals were fighting the last war instead of preparing for the next one
Hey Ian, I have an 1879 heading my way from gunbroker now. Do you know if the 45/70 cowboy round is safe to use or should I use trapdoor 45-70's ? I appreciate your time
Nice history very interesting =)
+Forgotten Weapons
Hi, how are you doing?
I've noticed there will be a VIS 35 pistol from Fabryka Broni in Radom on upcoming auction. I know it's in just few days but is there any chance you could prepare even a short video about it? That would be great because there's not much information about them on CZcams, nor anywhere else in the Internet. Also a fact that the factory celebrates its 90 anniversary and 80 anniversary of starting the production of Vis 35, would make it pretty special.
+Archibald The archer I don't have a chance to do a video on that particular one, but I will cover the vis 35 sooner or later.
+Forgotten Weapons
Any chance on covering the finnish Lahti L-35 pistol?
And in comparison to the Husqvarna m/40, which was a swedish variant of it (a very poor variant).
+Forgotten Weapons Thanks for your fast reply
I'm looking forward to that.
Keep doing the good job
When is he gonna review the jackhammer, I am super happy that he gets the opportunity to see it in person and I can't wait to see it!
+Jacob Lester In the first video when he announced the indiegogo campaign to fund the trip, he said the video on the Jackhammer would likely be finished and released sometime in october.
Almost every rifle today, certainly the vast majority of military rifles, are technically Lee rifles. Interesting how one, seemingly trivial, feature has become a standard concept.
BONUS: The STANAG magazine (ie 5.56mm NATO, AR-15/L85 style mags) are basically the evolution of the STG's mag. AR-15 pattern mag releases are almost identical to the release used on the STG.
Who'd have thought that Mags were so interesting!?
So the first of the famous Lee-Enfield rifles was actually American, not British? Hmm learn something new everyday!
Another great video Ian. Never heard of this one and im amazed a bolt action rifle of this type existed in 1879. Totally ahead of its time... And now I know what gun to reference as the first with detachable mags, so thanks for that too ;)
No, the designer was Scottish.
LJK Designs LTD John Garand was born in Canada, would you call the M1 Garand a Canadian rifle?
sergeantbigmac Yeah I guess I would if he designed it.
LJK Designs LTD Hmm interesting, different POV I guess.
LJK Designs LTD, John Garand was only born in Canada. He moved to the U.S. when he was young (teenaged I believe) and was a U.S. citizen when he designed the caliber 30, M1 rifle that we call the Garand.
I wonder why the early lee rifles had the bolt designed the way they did.
Hey Ian, thanks for all the entertainment man.
I got a question for you, what's your definition of a carbine? Cause I see some sources say they are short-barreled versios of rifles firing the same ammunition, but other people claim they can fire smaller cartridges as well. So what's the difference then between a SMG like the MP-5 and a Carbine?
+Peter Timowreef The definition is potentially confusing because it includes two distinct types of guns - short versions of full size rifles, and also full size rifles firing pistol cartridges. The difference between carbine and SMG is that SMGs are select-fire and carbines (of the pistol caliber variety) are semiauto only (or manually operated).
Forgotten Weapons
Thanks for the reply, I think I get it now. But what would you get then if you were to saw off the barrel of a full-sized select-fire rifle like the AK?
+Peter Timowreef That would be a carbine. Much like how the M4 is a carbine version of the M16A2.
You know what will be very very special.... Getting to shoot the stg 44 with the weird barrel curve extension, those are bloody rare and cool. Also to use a 'vampire' night optic on it aswell that would be so cool
+The name is Jeff He already did, search Forgotten Weapons Krumlauf (or similar) barrel.
+Douglas Fulmer k thx
How could the US Army ignore this and adopt the Krag 13 years later? What did the Krag have over the (by then improved versions of) the Remington-Lee?
Very cool :)
that's still in 45-70 right? because ive seen a documentary and the mag looks longer, that is one gun i would like to get eventually
My grandpa has got one of these, but unfortunately it doesn´t have the cleaning rod
Why is the sling mount in front of the magazine well, basically in the middle of the gun?
Have you ever did a video on the Iver-Johnson pistol, it is a 32 short black powder, it does have a cartridge I assume.
Late to this video, but was there a magazine cutoff apart from removing the magazine to single feed? Assuming not since Ian would have mentioned it
When someone says bolt action rifles weren't used in the old west because they are almost never included in western shows because they believe everything about the old west from hollywood. I show them this video the Winchester hotchkiss video and the Remington Keene video.
Seems like the military would have jumped on board with the Lee rifle. Ive never understood why we adopted the Kraig
Thank you annointed Gun Jesus
for sharing the firearm gospel truth!
Is that control ahead of the trigger the safety? Usually you highlight such things... :)
Better late than never, but the control in front of the trigger is the magazine release.
what type of cartridge did this fire?
the magazine seems awfully small for a full sized rifle
i thought the krag rifle is the most ''advanced'' US military rifle in 1879..
+Luthfian Picket The krag Jørgensen wasn't invented until 1886, and it wasn't adopted by the US until 1892.
+michael johnson does the army adopt this rifle.. or it doesn't pass in the trials..?
the 1882 was tested by the army but it didn't pass, they were only used in the navy.
This rifle looks very mosin in some areas
can you make a video about the italian version of the vetterli rifle ?
it has been used in the colonial wars
100 years before I was born!?
... and to think that at the end of the century, we would still be using .45-70 Trapdoor Springfields against the wonderful 7mm Spanish Mausers. Gotta make one wonder at what our military leaders were trying not to adopt next.
Interesting that the first rifle with detachable magazines was intended to be used by switching the mags out M-14 style. Makes all the subsequent rifles up until the M-14 seem like backward steps. What cartridge was this rifle chambered for? If that was mentioned in the video, sorry; I must have missed that info.
I believe it’s chambered for 45-70
@@joeyfreeman5052 Thanks for the reply, I kinda figured that out after watching Ian's video on the Remington-Lee 1885 Model the next day where he definitely said they were .45-70 Government, so I assumed these were too. But thanks for the help!
So given (what looks like) a reasonably functional detachable magazine had been invented all the way back in 1879, do you have any idea why stripper clips/en bloc clips were the main reloading mechanism for rifles until after WWII?
Magazines are more expensive to make than stripper clips. The military took to ordering preloaded strippers as it was faster in the field.
So what is this chambered for, anyway? Black powder .45-70?
Yes, .45-70.
Hey Ian, id like to know what this rifle is chambered in...?
+LastCaress7 .45-70
so if it was better than the trapdoor and the krag , why was it never fully adopted by the US?????
what caliber is it
+pfootball6363 .45-70
*
What is that sort of zig zag groove on the magazine?
+Robert Thomas It stiffens the magazine body and acts as a guide for the cartridge rims.
Did any of these rifles see combat ??
+winstin win Yes, I expect at least a few would have seen use in the Spanish-American War and the Boxer Rebellion. Interestingly, in the Boxer Rebellion there were British sailors with Lee-Metfords, American Marines with Remington-Lees, and Chinese troops with Remington-Lees.
Ian, can you help with any good sources on the Model 1879 Remington-Lee?
+marvincz3 Sources of what?
Forgotten Weapons
Information.
What I meant is: Can you recommend any good books or articles with information on the rifle?
+marvincz3 Eugene Myszkowski's book "the Remington Lee Rifle" is fairly short, but a good information-dense resource. That's the best one I know of, although there may be good chapters in some bigger books about Remington in general (which I haven't read).
Forgotten Weapons
Thank you.
i thought the early 1889 schmidt-rubin was the first detachable box magazine rifle? was a lied to?
+j0nthegreat The 1889 Schmidt-Rubin magazine is not detachable, and is later than the 1879 Remington-Lee.
Forgotten Weapons it's obviously later, but the magazine is definitely detachable.
+j0nthegreat As far as I know it's detachable too.
BurnThePope0514 for sure. i just took mine out.
I have one this is why I asked
To celebrate this rifle, we need a song. ( watch?v=5rJlxFgEDXw )
5
second