Jane helping Katharine Howard cheat on the King makes much more sense if we assume she didn't testify against George and Anne. I think she was getting her revenge on Henry for having destroyed her husband and his family.
I feel it almost doesn't matter what Anne did or didn't do. The king wanted to be rid of Anne and any old excuse would do. Any person giving testimony would have their own reasons to want Anne gone.
He was King and head of the church, he could have divorced as he did Catherine...but it was too late due to the charges laid against her, they were embarrassing to him and could only result in her death
Vicki Noeske yeah, in the recent past someone asked why King Henry wanted to get rid m of Ann, I answered, “for the same reason anyone wants to get out of a relationship, she had become a pain in the ARSE”!
I can't stress how much I love your videos and how they help me. I'm 35 yrs old and lost my longtime boyfriend. He passed away and we have two young boys together and I can't seem to get my life together. I am walking the thin line of clear and blurry. Everything in my life is a mess and I will been stuck on this mess for almost two years. I have zero friends (seriously, I'm not exaggerating) and my oldest son is dealing with a lot of behavioral issues and they are so bad. He is violent and easy to get mad and throw and break things. Financially, is a serious problem. Anyways, I wanted to explain to you in detail how much you help me everyday. I get excited when I see your video on my notifications and the topics you talk about are great! These are usually questions that run through my mind and I assume I would never know the answer. I am in love with the history of everything Tudor; before and after. My all time dream (besides the health of my family, of course) is to go to England and have a Tudor tour. I've read about one once and I haven't stopped daydreaming about that tour since. My short message thanking you took a hard right turn but my message is the same. Your videos mean a lot to me. Thank you for all the time and effort you put into this series. It is hard work to keep up with everyday.
Kristine Smith I have been where you are now, perhaps under slightly different circumstances, but please know that this awful time will pass. Just take one day at a time and appreciate yourself for your strength because if you are surviving this, you are stronger than you know. I’m sending you a ton of love and determination. Take care xox
Please get some help. This shows strength and respect for yourself. If you are well,you will be a more effective mother. Find someone to help you love yourself
Hi Kristine, I am so sorry to hear about your situation and so very sorry for your loss. I can't imagine what you must be going through and to have to hold things together for your boys must be hard. I'm sending you lots of love and virtual hugs. I'm just pleased to hear that my videos help. I'm sure you've looked into it, but is there a family counsellor that could help you all? Love to you x
Oh wow! Your story is almost exactly my life story as well,, the father of my 2 boys died July of 1993 the day before my birthday! And it's my youngest son that behaves in the same manner as your oldest child.. I am still bothered by his passing, I too use shows like this to pass my time now that my son's are grown.. Fills some of my empty nest I guess you could say
@@rhondasmith3042 Thank you for responding and I am sorry you are dealing with feelings as these. How did your son end up getting better? Do you have any advise for me on how you dealt with his behavior issue? Thank you again and if you'd like to email me that would be great! casluvskir02@gmail.com
I wait each day for your Tudor treat. Jane Boleyn is a woman of mystery. Thanks for debunking those ghastly rumors of her being an accessory to murder of her husband and sister-in-law.
I have enjoyed Tudor history since reading about it in college many decades ago and have learned so much since finding this channel! My thanks to everyone!
I think a key piece of evidence that suggests Anne was not guilty is the fact that she did not confess any such sins the day before her execution. Given the immense focus on religion at the time and the salvation of one's soul through confession and repentance, you would think she would have taken this time to confess. Your thoughts on this? I think Cromwell simply needed her gone. Great video!
I was watching a history channel show and one of the historians they were talking to said they think she almost worded her confession too well and she was hiding something. I could have thrown something at my TV. Why would anyone think this when he had a replacement already and we know how he was with his wives in general.
Angela Brown Under Henry VIII the Church of England was a Catholicism without the pope. Even the Mass was still in Latin. Protestant theology didn’t take hold till the accession of Edward VI.
We’re led to believe that Anne was a very intelligent woman. In the reading I’ve done, Anne’s intelligence and wit are greatly admired. If she was as smart as many think she was, I cannot see her having adulterous relationships with anyone, whilst she was queen. She knew what danger would be brought her way by doing such. Also, Anne was probably very pious, and was raised with religion as central to her daily life. I cannot see her committing incest, simply because it was a grave sin within the church. Jane has gotten a bad wrap, but I don’t feel she intentionally “brought down” Anne. That would have been very dangerous to her wellbeing. She was very foolish in helping Katherine later in life, but I don’t believe she was malicious.
The incest was (allegedly) to conceive a child. After all, her life, fortune, future, safety and crown, not to mention her daughter, depended on having a male heir, and Henry had all but lost interest. I doubt she did it because she was a pervert!
@@CTID Anne was certainly in a state of despair, but I don't think she would ever stoop to trying to get pregnant by George. After all, what if the infant looked nothing like Henry but had very distinctive Boleyn features?
Anne was an extremely smart woman in an age when high intelligence in the fairer sex was not necessarily looked upon as a great thing. It's my belief she was even more intelligent than Henry, and he was no intellectual slouch. Elizabeth certainly inherited her "smarts".
@@CTID There is zero proof that that was anything but a trumped up charge. Getting pregnant by Henry was not a problem. Producing the promised son was. Having sex with her brother would not have changed that.
This was really interesting. As with probably most people, I had always heard that they had an unhappy marriage and she was jealous of Anne. Thank you for setting it straight
I couldn’t agree more. The machinations of Henry’s Court were beyond reason and so many, women in particular, were treated as disposable. I think every woman from those times deserves our sympathy, simply from the point of view of being a woman myself and having endured our so-called egalitarian society’s two-faced nature. Just imagine how much worse it was then! Thank you for these excellent videos 💕
Jane Boleyn is another Tudor woman for whom we have no attributed portrait and so a part of her identity has been lost to history. I think that has allowed her character to be warped in the centuries since.
Jane really has gotten an unfair rap, although clearly she exercised bad judgment in the case of Katharine Howard. After the death of George and Anne, she managed to stay on at court, so she must have been resourceful. For financial reasons alone, it makes no sense that she would want to bring down her husband!
Considering that Henry VIII either executed or divorced most of his wives, I don't see how you could blame them or his paramours. Probably they had no choice once he started chasing them. They were just trying to save themselves. How could you refuse a King in those days? Wife number three died in childbirth. He almost executed his sixth wife,too, and probably would have if he hadn't died first. The two he divorced instead of executing both had royal relatives who could have retaliated. 2--executed 2--divorced 1--died in childbirth 1--outlived him
Purely guesswork on my part: The fact that Jane contacted her imprisoned husband tells me that she must have cared for him deeply. Why else take on that risk, Jane knew Henry and his henchmen were out for blood and and not shy in their methods to get it. No, I think Jane was a loyal wife and shattered by her loss. Which (guessing again) if that were me, I'd be vengeful. And yeah, it would definitely tickle my evil sense of black humor to help bring Henry down a notch. Any which way I could, taking crazy risks. We'll never know. But I think we can assume humans then and now are very much the same in what makes them tick.
I so love your channel Claire. I have loved Tudor history for the longest. I look forward to your daily information because it is so thorough and you make it so interesting. This is one of my absolute favorite channels. Thank you for keeping us enlightened.
good question, why on earth would Jane Boleyn help the queen commit adultery? She must have been insane, especially knowing that her own husband and sister-in-law were killed.
Oh this is awesome! I have always thought Jane Rochford/Boleyn had given evidence against her husband and sister in law, and I am so happy to have learned that was not the case. I love these videos! In the few days since I've discovered them I've learned so much. Fabulous! Thank you.
Me, too. I never knew the story until recently, and I always assumed that it was fact that Jane had it in for her husband and SIL. I think she was just another victim of fate, being in Henry's court at a time when everyone was being punished. It seems very random, the way he accused and punished, no one was safe in that court. Just look at Lady Salisbury, that was barbarism at its worst.
I read Julia Fox's book several years ago but the memory of it has stayed with me and has given me great sympathy for Jane Boleyn. ( I also really loved the notes section--a history or biography with great notes is really so enjoyable.) It makes no sense to me that she would give false testimony to bring down her husband--if only because his destiny was mixed with her own. Anything that would be damaging to the family would damage her lot as well. The mess she got into with Catherine Howard seems the sort of mistake that a person in desperate circumstances might make. While it was wrong, she did not deserve to lose her head.
I have to say, if someone is unable to give Jane sympathy, at least they might consider giving her the benefit of the doubt! As you so articulately explain, there is no evidence Jane and Anne received their comeuppance for their wickedness. And I’d like to humbly add, we would do well to remember, Henry VIII was King, he set the law, so he didn’t HAVE to execute anyone. Had he imprisoned them, perhaps the truth of their sad stories would have come out! As it is, that chance at the truth was taken with one fell swoop of the executioner’s axe. And as Henry knew only too well and practiced quite regularly, dead men tell no tells. Let us then not add to the tragedy, by adding to a twisted version of history that favors not the seeking of truth, but favors only a long dead, sociopathic tyrant. I think we all can agree on that!
There's a novel that came out in 2017, "The Raven's Widow" by Adrienne Dillard, that gives a very sympathetic view of Jane Parker Boleyn. If anyone wishes to read it, it's there. :)
Eustace Chapuys was totally committed to Katherine of Aragon and her daughter, Princess Mary Tudor. He hated Anne Boleyn so much that he refused to say her name; he only referred to her as "the whore" and "the concubine".
Hi Claire, loving your video series on Tudor history! It's always been such a fascination to me and it's amazing to be able to have a clearer idea of the life of all of these people in history.
Very intriguing! I always had believed that Jane did give the damning evidence against George and Anne at their trials. Good to be proven wrong. How terrible that some parts of Kingston's letters on Anne Boleyn were lost in a fire. BTW Claire, gorgeous blouse 👍💕👌
Thank you for presenting my favorite argument against the idea that Jane testified against George and Anne - if she had, the prosecution and everyone else would have made MUCH of it. If a wife had testified at such a sensational trial that her husband had committed incest with his sister the queen, that would have been the most talked about fact in this most talked about scandal. Yet no contemporary source mentions it, not even Chapuys who would have definitely done so had it happened. There is also a dearth of reports that Jane hated her husband, or even resented him. Not even contemporary gossip, such as we have about Norfolk not getting along with Anne. Had the queen's sister-in-law who was also one of her main ladies been in conflict with her mistress or her husband - well, that would have been ambrosia to court gossips, and being able to report such divisions within the Boleyn faction would have tickled ambassadors like Chapuys to no end! If only we had a time machine; Jane Boleyn would be a most intriguing interview!
Why would jane help to bring down her husband and sister in law she had everything to lose and nothing to gain as was proved when after the executions she was writing pleading letters to the court officials for financial help she was conveniently made a scapegoat because she was one of the hated boleyns
Good evening, Mrs. Claire! As I have been reading your website for a while I also thought that watching your videos would be a lovely experience! There is no regret, indeed. Keep up the lovely work! ❤ With respect, from Romania!
I just wanted to tell you how much I am enjoying your videos. As an historian your debunking of myths through exploring and explaining primary and contemporary sources is appreciated beyond words. Am recommending these videos to everyone I know.
Claire...I am a huge fan of your videos. I am so glad I stumbled upon them and I look forward to hearing from you each day. Thanks for keeping us informed on all the interesting tid bits of Tudor history.
Mrs. Ridgway, you are a terrible time thief!!! :D Of course I mean that in the nicest possible way but as soon as I see a new notification, I stop whatever I'm doing to watch the latest video...and then probably two or three more!!! Another fascinating video and it's pleasing to know that Jane was probably not the evil, scheming woman we have been led to believe her to be. Anyway, I really must turn this CZcams off so I can get some housework done but in truth, I'm so looking forward to the next one :) Best wishes, Ann.
@@anneboleynfiles Don't you ever stop!!! :D I have certain things I constantly use CZcams for; jewellery making, sewing, heavy metal music, but now they all take second place to your videos. I was once told that history is one of the best subjects to get qualifications in as it shows excellent memory skills and employers used to like seeing that on a CV. I'm going back many years and I'm guessing, sadly, it may not be the case now (although I hope it is) but I'm enjoying this channel so much. As I'm beginning to worry about my memory, what better way to try and improve it and what better source could I be using? Best wishes, Ann :)
@@Annie.C.61 That's interesting about memory skills, perhaps it's all the dates we have to remember and the timelines of events. Thank you, your feedback means so much to me.
I love how you bring a new light on Jane, I have read Julia Fox her book on Jane, i have always been interested in Jane cause i never believed that someone could be so mean.. So thank you Claire, did not know you had a book on George, luckily i found it online and ordered it after seeing this video. Keep up the good work! Kind regards from the Netherlands!
I absolutely agree. When debating Anne and Jane, I am always met with them supposedly deserving their fate. I dont understand why no one looks at Henry as execution happy when his pride has been hurt or for convenience? I also see that a lot of people believe Jane to be perverted in some way.. I'm not sure where people get this from? Over and over its JANE = perverted peeping tom GEORGE = Gay QUEEN ANNE = Jezebel MARY = saint For me it's not about thinking their accusations would make the people "bad" but the fact they just arent true. They even include several of the men around King Henry at the time. Including Brandon supposedly being unable to stay faithful- was this true?
I think fiction is very powerful but some fiction and myths have found their way into non-fiction history books too. It annoys me when some historians and authors just go with the same old myths when they have been proven not to be true.
Folks do not think of these people as the humans they actually were. It's easy to judge when you think of them as just figures in history. But it's hard to not have a level of empathy for men and women who were fallible just like us. In fact, it's easy for most people to judge, period. It makes it easier to compartmentalize and not think critically. It's easier to paint someone a certain way instead of examining them as individuals. No one is really just good or evil, guilty or innocent, etc.
@@pamelaboswell9715 I think I have the oppisite problem. I was so enamoured of the characters in the Tudors series that I tend to see them.as portrayed. I have been learning that of course not everything was historically accurate.
@@stompthedragon4010 Right, most of the people who do series, movies, books, etc, add their own artistic element, so you have to take it all with a grain of salt and remember, "This is not the *whole* story".
@@pamelaboswell9715 yes. I' d just be interested in seeing a video or documentary on that aspect of the Tudor reign. Ive seen movies on Elizabeth and Mary.
So Henry's rage was so great, his pride so damaged that he passed a law to net a woman (Jane Boleyn) who had a mental breakdown following the trial and execution of her husband and sister-in-law? It appears he himself is beyond the pale of mental stability after entrapping first Anne Boleyn and her brother, then facing the betrayal of Catherine Howard. He appears to be completely unhinged to go after Jane, who was so damaged mentally that she aided and abetted the next queen in her adultery. Her life must not have been much worth living after all that mess. Thank you for offering this great account for our mental stimulation!
you made some great comments on jane's behalf , makes great sense . what a mess...........now i see jane boleyn in a different light . but her aiding the queen , to see culpepper was NOT smart , in doing so , she sealed her fate...too bad........ thank you , for the share
What could Jane Boleyn have made that was different? After Anne Boleyns trial, could she have just left the court? If court life was all she had been prepared for where would she have gone? If her comments had been deliberately been misconstrued would Henry have wanted to keep an eye on her? Could she have said no to Kathryn Howard? It proved dangerous to stay but had it been dangerous to leave.
This is completely off topic, but if you ever tour your books and come to Australia and do lectures, I'd love to hear you speak in person! Your videos are amazing!
You are unbearably coherent & compelling of belief! But one thing I would still like you to address. When the woman is already condemned to death for her treasonous activities against the king, & then executed for same, why make up further accusations against her out of whole cloth in reference to incidents of six years previously? Rather coals to Newcastle, isn't it? So what motivated the creation of the calumny to begin with? And you HAVE convinced me it is a calumny, after believing in the truth of the libel since my Tudorite childhood! Well done, m'lady! 👍
Thank you! I think it has been a case of people looking to rehabilitate Anne in a later period looking for a scapegoat, someone to blame for her downfall. George Wyatt, for example, in Elizabeth I's reign is not sympathetic to Jane but then he couldn't exactly blame Henry VIII for what happened because he was the present queen's father. Nobody blamed Jane for Anne and George at the time, but later historians seem to have latched onto her.
@@anneboleynfiles Ah, currying favour with Elizabeth, eh? I've read that she never spoke of her mother or tried in any way to rehabilitate her memory, but in her own circuitous way was very kind to her Boleyn relations. 👑
Jane Boylene was married to Ann's brother, on one occasion Jane Boylene was accused of behaving in an inappropriate manner with a Courtier, she replied " if you want to see someone behaving in that way, look to the Queen and her entertaining gentleman in her quarters" that led to the inquiry of Ann, and the execution.
🇦🇺🦘 viewed 7/03/2021 .. So, Jane Boleyn NEVER spoke against her husband, George, nor against George's sister, the Queen Anne Boleyn. Thank you Claire. 🔔🔔🔔👑👍
I’m thankful for this video & you have looked into this more. I found very interesting as lady Jane rochford (Boleyn) is an ancestor of mine a grt aunt many times as her brother Henry Parker is my direct ancestor. Jane has always been portrayed in a bad light & understanbly learning that this is my blood line hasn’t always been easy knowing so this is a welcomed video . Thanks Claire ❤️
It makes more sense that George called Jane "that one woman", during his testamony, instead of his wife, if they had had marital unhappiness. Jane became a lady in waiting to Jane Seymour after her husband and sister in law were executed and I find that extremely odd.
Claire, I must have missed this video of yours as I was searching on YT for videos on Jane, and stumbled on yours, much to my delight. I have always found Jane to be a fascinating character. I agree with you; she's gotten a bad reputation, in my opinion. Imagine what it was like for her after George was executed. It must've been absolutely humiliating and surely she suffered financially, right? Also, any insight as to how she kept her position at court up until her demise along with Katherine Howard? I would have figured Henry (through Cromwell, perhaps) would have tossed her out when getting rid of all reminders of Anne. Lastly, thank goodness Eustace sent all that correspondence to Charles; we know so much through those letters that we otherwise wouldn't know.
You can't help but be disgusted yet fascinated by Henry VIII; he had an uncanny ability to disgard people the very moment they weren't useful to him any longer. I often wonder if he ever looked back at his treatment of Catherine of Aragon, Thomas Wolsey, Thomas Moore, Anne Boleyn and Thomas Cromwell over the years, even on his deathbed. Given what an egomaniac and tyrant he was, I find it doubtful. It's actually diabolical how he could just toss wives and lifelong friendships without batting an eyelash. Wow...
I cant get enough of claire ridgeway and as I am a huge anne boleyn and tudor over all dynasty history. I get beyond excited to learn see or hear anything about it!
When the charges were brought against her, she was hysterical! It was not as if she was caught. It seems that everything was here say. In the end it was what Henry wanted that mattered, and would go to any extreme to get it, as he had done with Anne from the get go. Unfortunately for Anne, she couldn't get away from him no matter what she did.
I really love Tudor history i never knew a lot about jane boleyn but i feel this ladys name has been dragged through the mud and its time to put the truth out. Would love to have known more on George and Jane Boleyn xx
I don't believe Anne confided in Jane. They weren't close and Jane wasn't part of the inner circle and her marriage was not a success. Her not being part of the inner circle may have caused her some jealousy. George Cavendish, who had known Jane personally but had no love for the Boleyns, had no great opinion of her character. He asserted she had been reared "Withouten bridle of honest measure, Following my lust and filthy pleasure, Without respect of any wifely truth, Dreadless of God, from grace also exempt, Viciously consuming the time of my youth."
I felt that Henry changing that law was one of the most obvious signs of his... smallness. His need for absolute victory and revenge. I didn’t think I could be surprised by him anymore, but him having the law changed just so he could take that woman’s life did it.
Jane had way too much to lose to do such evil mischief - these people such as Jane had clear understanding of the consequences of even a whiff of foul play Her involvement later over Catherine Howard’s indiscretions may well have been due to grief over the loss of her husband; Queen and quality of life - she lost the plot poor girl
I have read before your video about the main accusers that were said to be members of her household. I did not know though about Jane and it not being accurate that she gave evidence against them. That’s very interesting really... I’ll also have to pick up both books!
Jane made no such speech at her execution but there are other contemporary sources that she carried stories to the king and those about him, saying that her brother and his sister the queen were having an unnatural relationship. And perhaps she subscribed to Cromwells accusations to save her own head. "The evidence against Lord Rochford was said to have been laid solely by his wife of 12 years, Jane Parker; she is described by Henry Vllls 15th century biographer, Edward, Lord Herbert of Cherbury, as the particular instrument in the ruin of her husband and his sister. Cherbury based his account on the lost journal of Anthony Anthony, a witness at the trials of George and Anne Boleyn". Alison Weir; The Lady in The Tower.
I came to believe years ago that Jane wasnt guilty in the sense of accusing her husband and her sister in law/ Queen of incest. She was not made richer by Georges death, as a matter of fact she suffered financially... Obviously it was known that the allegations against Anne and her brother were false, and the sop that was provided to Jane was later service in the palace, and to another Queen, no less. (Was Jane in service to Anne of Cleves , also?) Jane, on the other hand, did not, as far as is known, swear his innocence to anyone, or, she was warned or had enough brains to realize what was happening and was frightened enough to keep silent on the matter. I consider it likely she DID try to speak on her husbands behalf, as she had written to him, and that was probably when she was silenced by threat... she was close to the Queen, and knew her husband, so would have been dangerous if she had spoken out, and probably framed for a crime also. I have always thought that some writers obviously dont think Henry the VIII was bad enough or dramatic enough, or villian enough on his own account that they must drag in all kinds of falsity for the sake of the story... which is ironic because everyone knows he was quite the monster in many ways. We excuse Henry on the basis of his times... the king ruled and needed an heir, but we are quick to judge Jane as a woman with a voice when most all women had none... and ALL major decisions were made by men, for women to accept, will or nil... Henry wanted Anne gone, and he was embarrassed by his already having annulled one wife, couldnt see using the same excuse, so she had to die, a death plot against the King and adulterous treason made a convenient reason, and if it had gone wrong he could blame the ones who put it all in play for his benefit, which of course didnt happen , they all had to play along or suffer...
Hello. Was there a painting portrait of Lady Rochford? Does Fox's book about her have a portrait? I saw so many portraits of 16th century ladies that are confusing and none says that was the face of Lady Rochford. Thanks.
Thank you mindy for this information, I realised I'd asked that question two minutes before Claire told us smeaton Was the only one to admit to adultery with the queen... Of course under the most terrible torture men would admit to most things, horrible...
Thank you for this detailed information. I had always thought it was Lady Jane Boleyn who had betrayed Anne. On another note: what's your cat's name? For the second time, I saw that beautiful black and white cat step off of the landing behind you.
We have two black and white ones and I can't remember which one decided to get in on this video. If the cat is mainly black (with white socks) then it's Ari (Ariadne) and if it's black and white more equally then it's Oreo. They're brother and sister.
Listening to this a second time, it seems to me that perhaps there had developed a particular enmity between HM Henry VIII and Lady Jane Rochford. In her position, maybe I would have wanted to help poor Catherine find a little pleasure and happiness, while at the same time, secretly sticking it to an old bully, whom had my husband and sister in law sent to the block! When the whole scene was laid bare, Henry would most likely have taken her actions as a deliberate attempt at revenge, and hence reacted like the spiteful old jade he had become. 🤔
Oh I like this introduction! Why don’t you use it anymore? And, thank you for this video. I am guilty of basing all of my knowledge and feelings towards Jane on juicy fiction (Phillipa Gregory) oh dear!
I agree with this. I have always thought that the accusations against Jane Lady Rochford were fabricated to blacken her character and make it easier to execute her later on. Medieval tradition made servants loyal to their masters people to be respected, so if Jane Lady R. aided Queen Katherine Howard to cuckold the King, she was obeying her mistress orders (as probably others also did). Her very forced execution sent a message to all courtiers and servants that nobody would ever be safe against the King's will. A lot of rules and customs were broken in order to execute Lady R., she had no protector, was of high rank and mentally ill. Perfect scapegoat and lesson for the Court.
No, there's no evidence that he was. See czcams.com/video/A-CGVk70WVM/video.html for more on their marriage. That video is part of a playlist on George.
You are gradually changing my perspective on Jane. George said at the trial "On the basis of this one woman", suggesting he knew who the woman was, or he would have said "some woman" or "my wife". That makes sense. In The Six Wives, Jane supposedly tells Cromwell, "Her wedding night there was an azure cross against the moon." Do you know where they got that? I'm sure gossip was flying all through the court at that time. They tried to interject witchcraft into the nullification of the marriage. Would you happen to know who was spreading that around? Thank you.
This isn't a question about anne but, I would like to know where you film these videos. I love these videos bc I'm obsessed with the royals especially the Tudors. I hope to hear back.
I think you make sense in saying that George would have said " my wife" rather then " one woman." It would have possibly helped his case if it were shown that his wife was speaking out of jealousy and spite. PGoing by the series I felt bad for Jane in her marriage to George which they portrayed as his being cruel and being involved with Mark.
This is undoubtedly a meticulously researched narration and text . After learning of your arguments I have changed my opinion of Jane Boleyn and actually sympathise with her . She was clearly suffering from a nervous breakdown at the time of her execution for whatever reasons. However, she was undoubtedly at fault for having helped Catherine Howard ' s escapades with Culpepper. But she doesn't at all seem to have been the villain which she has been made out to be in the trial of her sister - in - law and her so called paramours . If you don't mind , Clare, could you please look into one other aspect of Anne Boleyn being charged for high treason and her subsequent summary trial accompanied by false accusations ending in her losing her head ? And that aspect is that the whole drama which most unexpectedly unfolded in the Queen' last hundred or so days was the result of careful planning by international powers , especially the Emperor , Charles or even the Pope ? Catherine of Aragon was greatly loved all over Europe . In all these events could the Princess Mary have had knowledge of or her aquiesence in the events ? Anne Boleyn ' s enemies were many , both within and without the country and there isn't an iota of doubt about that including, I think , Thomas Cromwell himself . The witnesses brought against her were definitely pressurised and threatened or even bribed . But if that was so then for what end ? Who would benefit by Anne's death ? Of course the King who himself wanted to marry Jane Seymour. But , in that case he could have divorced her or put her in the Tower for the rest of her life with certain comforts . It wasn't necessary to kill her by concocting trumped up charges . It seems he had started hating her. But the part played by internal and external political powers should not be overlooked . Thanks so much for this eye opening video .
Jane Boleyn is a mystery to me. She was said to say and do foolish things regarding Anne and also Catherine Howard. How much is true we will never know. As far as Catherine, perhaps Jane was just a hopeless romantic in that case.
Seems she was a woman in a world ruled by men. She believed those saying she was helping them when she told them things, whether true or made up. They used her and abused her, as her "fits" after prolonged interrogations by Cromwell indicate. I think her "apology" could have been quite real. She had plenty of time for introspection, and while she might not gave been able to stand up and say what truly happened without upsetting the apple cart, she could at least apologize for her faults and errors which cost others their lives - almost more than for her "actions against the king". I don't think her death was karma, I think she was once again victimized, this time by an insane man with extreme power, who felt he had a grudge against her. She had been friends or at least quite close with several of Henry's wives, and was able to finagle her money from Lord Boleyn, and a return to court within a year of George's death.
Her apology was a work of fiction, we know that as it's not backed up by the eye-witness account and would have caused scandal, and she didn't do anything that did cost others their lives. She was very lucky in that Cromwell took her pleas for help seriously and helped her. It must have been very hard for her to return to court after what had happened and to be so close to the king.
Absolutely agree Jane deserved better, to have been assisted and removed from court life after the killing of Anne and George, to have been put in a new, invulnérable situation. Too many see such historical personnages as just names, card board cut outs, forgetting humanity, that each reign exacerbated the complexity and insecurity of life
I think you are absolutely spot on when it comes to Jane Boleyn and thank you for this exoneration. The main accuser being the Countess of Worcester I think is pretty well evidenced and I wonder if she may not have been lent on by her brother in law Charles Brandon Duke of Suffolk, who certainly had no love for Anne. The Countess, I understand, was pregnant at the time of Anne's downfall and called the child Anne I believe, which maybe points to her being rather lent on to give the evidence she did and maybe having some regret.
Thank you for this video....ive never seen a portrait of Jane Boleyn but from all I've ever found out about her was that she seemed a miserable unwanted wife...married to George because she was from a wealthy family and then pretty much neglected. No children and not many friends....perhaps she was a bit of a gossip and bound to feel at least a bit of resentfulness against her husband s closeness to his sisters but think about this.....what was she to do with herself at court? Read or do needlework? Sounds like a very dull life wandering from room to room trying to fill a lot of empty hours....
The other boleyn girl while a good movie is so inaccurate! They had this scene btwn Anne and George but they dont go through with it but you're right. Anne and George were much too pious
Hi Claire, I've heard a theory that Lady Rochford may have been helping Katherine Howard for financial gain, that Katherine may have been paying her for her assistance in the secret meetings with Culpeper. It sounds perfectly plausible to me, I mean it makes perfect sense that Lady Rochford could gain more privileges and favour with Queen Katherine by aiding her. What are your thoughts?
I haven't found any evidence of payments to Jane which could be construed in this way. At the end of the day, it was Jane's job to do what the queen asked so perhaps Catherine put pressure on Jane. Julia Fox points out that the person that Jane could have gone to for help in this matter, Thomas Cromwell, was now dead, so she had nowhere to turn.
As there ate no records of her every testifying against her husband George or that the account of Jane Boleyn’s actually execution remarks this speculation is just that, speculative. If it was a Boleyn who brought George and Ann down I would say the one who had the most to gain from a revenge motivation it would be Mary. Their deaths certainly put an end to her being used as the ‘family cash cow’ for financial gain for both Thomas and George. It would have also put her in the King’s Good graces where her children futures were of her upmost concern. I find it rather telling that Thomas had to be order to increase the support allowance to Jane rather than voluntarily. I can also understand Jane getting revenge on the King for all the punishment of the Boleyn members through ‘aiding Queen Katherine Howard based on the privileged information of Henry’s bedroom failures from both her sister-in-laws first hand knowledge. The fact that her former mother-in-law was a Howard had to have been a weighty burden as they clearly displayed a lack of loyalty or responsibility and as a financial drain rather than contributor to the family’s continuing wealth. To have existed in a time where ‘pimping-out’ one’s daughters was considered respectable behavior is not a legacy to be admired, at least not in my opinion.
Isn’t it also possible that Cromwell might have made some pieces of correspondence disappear that would have put Anne and anyone associated with her in a better light? It certainly would have served his own purposes well to do so.
And, in what we can consider "truth"- Jane seemed to have attempted to help George(as you mention) And Jane enjoyed no perks after the Boleyn downfall. She was absent from court for awhile
Ironically the more I hear about Jane Boleyn the more I am convinced that her character and actions are more complex than they appear regardless of viewing her with or without sympathy.
Claire, could you please explain the duties &! responsibilities of a Lady in Waiting”? (eg, was it a 24/7 “job”, did they get vacations?, did they have days off or vacations? Did they HAVE to accept the position if it was offered, or could one refuse the offer? were they given time to visit their family?)
I can tell yu why she helped Katherine and Culpepper. Jane was PISSED (upset and angry) that George was beheaded and that she was left destitute. It was her way of getting back at Henry. She was upset that she also lost Jane Seymore due to neglect. So by the time Katherine came around her involvement was a passive aggressive way to get back. That's why she did it. She saw what happened to Anne B. She knew what would happen if it got out. The only question is what could motivate her to risk so much. In my opinion, Jane R was pissed off, understandably. Also..I think she was blackmailed by Culper. Culpepper was a fiend. He raped a farmers wife and killed her husband. I believe Culpepper was blackmailing Katherine and Jane
I have always felt Jane was unfairly maligned. I think she was an unloved wife and member of a terrifyingly oppressive/ dangerous King and court. Weak to her supervisors ( young Catherine) , caught in a very untenable and unenviable place .My feeling is she was likely resentful and unlikable, but not the villain so many historic fiction writers delight in making of her.
Yes, she's been used as a villain for fiction and that's had a knock-on effect. The fact that Anne confided in her shows that the two women must have been close, so she must have been likeable.
I knew almost nothing about Jane before reading Philippa Gregory's Tudor books, but her portrayal of Jane immediately made me angry on Jane's behalf, & made me pretty sure she was nothing like that- one, NO-ONE'S a total villain; two, Philippa's novels are so innacurate I'd call them historical fantasy rather than fiction, & she goes for the most lurid plots possible. They're fun for "trash reading" but also piss me off, so I probably won't read any more.
Any thoughts as to why these women of Anne's would have falsely testified, or testified to what at most was innuendo on Anne's part? I've always guessed that it may have been payback for Anne being "difficult" or just generally nasty & demeaning to her staff.
See czcams.com/video/A-CGVk70WVM/video.html for a video I did with my co-author Clare Cherry on Jane and George. Regarding the incest charge, it was an excellent way if blackening the Boleyn name and getting rid of both of them.
I so agree. I've always had sympathy for Jane. Do you think she was a bit mad all along? I had a hard time believing that she brought down Anne or George. It would have hurt her badly, esp. as a woman. And, it did. I always thought what she did with Katherine Howard was simply bad judgement and the fear and reality caused her to finally snap completely when she was arrested.
This definitely puts Jane in a new light and makes you think what is true. In my last comment I did think that Jane was jealous but with the evidence produced in this video does make me think
Jane helping Katharine Howard cheat on the King makes much more sense if we assume she didn't testify against George and Anne. I think she was getting her revenge on Henry for having destroyed her husband and his family.
Marguerite Cain I’ve never thought of it that way but that makes a lot of sense.
Perhaps Jane did think she was getting back at the king, but it was to no avail because in the end she went to the block with Katherine Howard.
There's a possibility. Hadnt thoughtof that.
thats how i feel as well
Just so you know Rochfort and Jane was a true unhappy marriage... so Lady Rochfort didnt cry rivers when her husband died
I feel it almost doesn't matter what Anne did or didn't do. The king wanted to be rid of Anne and any old excuse would do. Any person giving testimony would have their own reasons to want Anne gone.
Yep yep on point!!
You're good so as to point that out. Henry would have treated whomever according to his whims, not what would have been appropriate.
As Anne said before Catherine of Aragon died, “I am her death and she is mine”.
He was King and head of the church, he could have divorced as he did Catherine...but it was too late due to the charges laid against her, they were embarrassing to him and could only result in her death
Vicki Noeske yeah, in the recent past someone asked why King Henry wanted to get rid m of Ann, I answered, “for the same reason anyone wants to get out of a relationship, she had become a pain in the ARSE”!
I can't stress how much I love your videos and how they help me. I'm 35 yrs old and lost my longtime boyfriend. He passed away and we have two young boys together and I can't seem to get my life together. I am walking the thin line of clear and blurry. Everything in my life is a mess and I will been stuck on this mess for almost two years. I have zero friends (seriously, I'm not exaggerating) and my oldest son is dealing with a lot of behavioral issues and they are so bad. He is violent and easy to get mad and throw and break things. Financially, is a serious problem. Anyways, I wanted to explain to you in detail how much you help me everyday. I get excited when I see your video on my notifications and the topics you talk about are great! These are usually questions that run through my mind and I assume I would never know the answer. I am in love with the history of everything Tudor; before and after. My all time dream (besides the health of my family, of course) is to go to England and have a Tudor tour. I've read about one once and I haven't stopped daydreaming about that tour since.
My short message thanking you took a hard right turn but my message is the same. Your videos mean a lot to me. Thank you for all the time and effort you put into this series. It is hard work to keep up with everyday.
Kristine Smith I have been where you are now, perhaps under slightly different circumstances, but please know that this awful time will pass. Just take one day at a time and appreciate yourself for your strength because if you are surviving this, you are stronger than you know. I’m sending you a ton of love and determination. Take care xox
Please get some help. This shows strength and respect for yourself. If you are well,you will be a more effective mother. Find someone to help you love yourself
Hi Kristine,
I am so sorry to hear about your situation and so very sorry for your loss. I can't imagine what you must be going through and to have to hold things together for your boys must be hard. I'm sending you lots of love and virtual hugs. I'm just pleased to hear that my videos help. I'm sure you've looked into it, but is there a family counsellor that could help you all?
Love to you x
Oh wow! Your story is almost exactly my life story as well,, the father of my 2 boys died July of 1993 the day before my birthday! And it's my youngest son that behaves in the same manner as your oldest child.. I am still bothered by his passing, I too use shows like this to pass my time now that my son's are grown.. Fills some of my empty nest I guess you could say
@@rhondasmith3042 Thank you for responding and I am sorry you are dealing with feelings as these. How did your son end up getting better? Do you have any advise for me on how you dealt with his behavior issue? Thank you again and if you'd like to email me that would be great!
casluvskir02@gmail.com
I wait each day for your Tudor treat. Jane Boleyn is a woman of mystery. Thanks for debunking those ghastly rumors of her being an accessory to murder of her husband and sister-in-law.
I'm a huge nerd for Tudor history and I look forward to your posts every day!
Me, too! Coffee and CZcams, after I've completed my day's work.
me too!
I have enjoyed Tudor history since reading about it in college many decades ago and have learned so much since finding this channel! My thanks to everyone!
As am I. She knows so much about the Tudor history and I am glad she is speaking of Jane cos I think she did bring Anne down
Same
I think a key piece of evidence that suggests Anne was not guilty is the fact that she did not confess any such sins the day before her execution. Given the immense focus on religion at the time and the salvation of one's soul through confession and repentance, you would think she would have taken this time to confess. Your thoughts on this? I think Cromwell simply needed her gone. Great video!
I was watching a history channel show and one of the historians they were talking to said they think she almost worded her confession too well and she was hiding something. I could have thrown something at my TV. Why would anyone think this when he had a replacement already and we know how he was with his wives in general.
really fascinating as always
That’s a Catholic thing.
I believe it but where did you come across that information? Wouldn’t the content of her last confession be held under seal?
Angela Brown Under Henry VIII the Church of England was a Catholicism without the pope. Even the Mass was still in Latin. Protestant theology didn’t take hold till the accession of Edward VI.
We’re led to believe that Anne was a very intelligent woman. In the reading I’ve done, Anne’s intelligence and wit are greatly admired. If she was as smart as many think she was, I cannot see her having adulterous relationships with anyone, whilst she was queen. She knew what danger would be brought her way by doing such. Also, Anne was probably very pious, and was raised with religion as central to her daily life. I cannot see her committing incest, simply because it was a grave sin within the church. Jane has gotten a bad wrap, but I don’t feel she intentionally “brought down” Anne. That would have been very dangerous to her wellbeing. She was very foolish in helping Katherine later in life, but I don’t believe she was malicious.
The incest was (allegedly) to conceive a child. After all, her life, fortune, future, safety and crown, not to mention her daughter, depended on having a male heir, and Henry had all but lost interest. I doubt she did it because she was a pervert!
@@CTID Anne was certainly in a state of despair, but I don't think she would ever stoop to trying to get pregnant by George. After all, what if the infant looked nothing like Henry but had very distinctive Boleyn features?
Anne was an extremely smart woman in an age when high intelligence in the fairer sex was not necessarily looked upon as a great thing. It's my belief she was even more intelligent than Henry, and he was no intellectual slouch. Elizabeth certainly inherited her "smarts".
@@CTID There is zero proof that that was anything but a trumped up charge. Getting pregnant by Henry was not a problem. Producing the promised son was. Having sex with her brother would not have changed that.
@@elizabethhopkins7582 and there is zero proof that it was a false accusation. Nobody knows but Anne and George
This was really interesting. As with probably most people, I had always heard that they had an unhappy marriage and she was jealous of Anne. Thank you for setting it straight
I'm so glad that you explain about Jane Boylen. She has been vilified for decades with no proof.
I couldn’t agree more. The machinations of Henry’s Court were beyond reason and so many, women in particular, were treated as disposable. I think every woman from those times deserves our sympathy, simply from the point of view of being a woman myself and having endured our so-called egalitarian society’s two-faced nature. Just imagine how much worse it was then! Thank you for these excellent videos 💕
Jane Boleyn is another Tudor woman for whom we have no attributed portrait and so a part of her identity has been lost to history. I think that has allowed her character to be warped in the centuries since.
Jane really has gotten an unfair rap, although clearly she exercised bad judgment in the case of Katharine Howard. After the death of George and Anne, she managed to stay on at court, so she must have been resourceful. For financial reasons alone, it makes no sense that she would want to bring down her husband!
Considering that Henry VIII either executed or divorced most of his wives, I don't see how you could blame them or his paramours. Probably they had no choice once he started chasing them. They were just trying to save themselves. How could you refuse a King in those days? Wife number three died in childbirth. He almost executed his sixth wife,too, and probably would have if he hadn't died first. The two he divorced instead of executing both had royal relatives who could have retaliated. 2--executed 2--divorced 1--died in childbirth 1--outlived him
Exactly, it left her in a very precarious position, and, like Mary Boleyn before her, she was forced to write to Cromwell for help.
Purely guesswork on my part: The fact that Jane contacted her imprisoned husband tells me that she must have cared for him deeply. Why else take on that risk, Jane knew Henry and his henchmen were out for blood and and not shy in their methods to get it.
No, I think Jane was a loyal wife and shattered by her loss. Which (guessing again) if that were me, I'd be vengeful. And yeah, it would definitely tickle my evil sense of black humor to help bring Henry down a notch. Any which way I could, taking crazy risks.
We'll never know. But I think we can assume humans then and now are very much the same in what makes them tick.
I so love your channel Claire. I have loved Tudor history for the longest. I look forward to your daily information because it is so thorough and you make it so interesting. This is one of my absolute favorite channels. Thank you for keeping us enlightened.
good question, why on earth would Jane Boleyn help the queen commit adultery? She must have been insane, especially knowing that her own husband and sister-in-law were killed.
I think that was just intrigue added for artistic reasons. There's no evidence in historical documents that she was part of Anne's undoing.
@@pamelaboswell9715 probably those historical documents were destroyed
Oh this is awesome! I have always thought Jane Rochford/Boleyn had given evidence against her husband and sister in law, and I am so happy to have learned that was not the case.
I love these videos! In the few days since I've discovered them I've learned so much. Fabulous! Thank you.
Me, too. I never knew the story until recently, and I always assumed that it was fact that Jane had it in for her husband and SIL. I think she was just another victim of fate, being in Henry's court at a time when everyone was being punished. It seems very random, the way he accused and punished, no one was safe in that court. Just look at Lady Salisbury, that was barbarism at its worst.
Except she did, this is revisionism at it's finest
@@paloma4444 lol no she didnt
I read Julia Fox's book several years ago but the memory of it has stayed with me and has given me great sympathy for Jane Boleyn. ( I also really loved the notes section--a history or biography with great notes is really so enjoyable.) It makes no sense to me that she would give false testimony to bring down her husband--if only because his destiny was mixed with her own. Anything that would be damaging to the family would damage her lot as well. The mess she got into with Catherine Howard seems the sort of mistake that a person in desperate circumstances might make. While it was wrong, she did not deserve to lose her head.
🇺🇸Thanks for making these historical figures come alive. I look forward to your daily posts. 🇬🇧
I have to say, if someone is unable to give Jane sympathy, at least they might consider giving her the benefit of the doubt! As you so articulately explain, there is no evidence Jane and Anne received their comeuppance for their wickedness. And I’d like to humbly add, we would do well to remember, Henry VIII was King, he set the law, so he didn’t HAVE to execute anyone. Had he imprisoned them, perhaps the truth of their sad stories would have come out! As it is, that chance at the truth was taken with one fell swoop of the executioner’s axe. And as Henry knew only too well and practiced quite regularly, dead men tell no tells. Let us then not add to the tragedy, by adding to a twisted version of history that favors not the seeking of truth, but favors only a long dead, sociopathic tyrant. I think we all can agree on that!
I look forward to all your posts too! Great stuff!
There's a novel that came out in 2017, "The Raven's Widow" by Adrienne Dillard, that gives a very sympathetic view of Jane Parker Boleyn. If anyone wishes to read it, it's there. :)
I think it's cute that you call him "good old Eustace Chapuys." Biased or no, any historian has to be really grateful to him.
Eustace Chapuys was totally committed to Katherine of Aragon and her daughter, Princess Mary Tudor. He hated Anne Boleyn so much that he refused to say her name; he only referred to her as "the whore" and "the concubine".
Hi Claire, loving your video series on Tudor history! It's always been such a fascination to me and it's amazing to be able to have a clearer idea of the life of all of these people in history.
Very intriguing! I always had believed that Jane did give the damning evidence against George and Anne at their trials. Good to be proven wrong. How terrible that some parts of Kingston's letters on Anne Boleyn were lost in a fire. BTW Claire, gorgeous blouse 👍💕👌
Thank you for presenting my favorite argument against the idea that Jane testified against George and Anne - if she had, the prosecution and everyone else would have made MUCH of it. If a wife had testified at such a sensational trial that her husband had committed incest with his sister the queen, that would have been the most talked about fact in this most talked about scandal. Yet no contemporary source mentions it, not even Chapuys who would have definitely done so had it happened.
There is also a dearth of reports that Jane hated her husband, or even resented him. Not even contemporary gossip, such as we have about Norfolk not getting along with Anne. Had the queen's sister-in-law who was also one of her main ladies been in conflict with her mistress or her husband - well, that would have been ambrosia to court gossips, and being able to report such divisions within the Boleyn faction would have tickled ambassadors like Chapuys to no end!
If only we had a time machine; Jane Boleyn would be a most intriguing interview!
Why would jane help to bring down her husband and sister in law she had everything to lose and nothing to gain as was proved when after the executions she was writing pleading letters to the court officials for financial help she was conveniently made a scapegoat because she was one of the hated boleyns
Yes, that is what I am saying.
Good evening, Mrs. Claire! As I have been reading your website for a while I also thought that watching your videos would be a lovely experience! There is no regret, indeed. Keep up the lovely work! ❤ With respect, from Romania!
I just wanted to tell you how much I am enjoying your videos. As an historian your debunking of myths through exploring and explaining primary and contemporary sources is appreciated beyond words. Am recommending these videos to everyone I know.
Thank you, that's so kind of you.
Claire...I am a huge fan of your videos. I am so glad I stumbled upon them and I look forward to hearing from you each day. Thanks for keeping us informed on all the interesting tid bits of Tudor history.
Mrs. Ridgway, you are a terrible time thief!!! :D Of course I mean that in the nicest possible way but as soon as I see a new notification, I stop whatever I'm doing to watch the latest video...and then probably two or three more!!! Another fascinating video and it's pleasing to know that Jane was probably not the evil, scheming woman we have been led to believe her to be. Anyway, I really must turn this CZcams off so I can get some housework done but in truth, I'm so looking forward to the next one :) Best wishes, Ann.
Ha! Sorry! You just can't stop me talking Tudor!
@@anneboleynfiles Don't you ever stop!!! :D I have certain things I constantly use CZcams for; jewellery making, sewing, heavy metal music, but now they all take second place to your videos. I was once told that history is one of the best subjects to get qualifications in as it shows excellent memory skills and employers used to like seeing that on a CV. I'm going back many years and I'm guessing, sadly, it may not be the case now (although I hope it is) but I'm enjoying this channel so much. As I'm beginning to worry about my memory, what better way to try and improve it and what better source could I be using? Best wishes, Ann :)
@@Annie.C.61 That's interesting about memory skills, perhaps it's all the dates we have to remember and the timelines of events. Thank you, your feedback means so much to me.
I love how you bring a new light on Jane, I have read Julia Fox her book on Jane, i have always been interested in Jane cause i never believed that someone could be so mean.. So thank you Claire, did not know you had a book on George, luckily i found it online and ordered it after seeing this video. Keep up the good work! Kind regards from the Netherlands!
Thank you! Jane has been too long vilified
I absolutely agree. When debating Anne and Jane, I am always met with them supposedly deserving their fate. I dont understand why no one looks at Henry as execution happy when his pride has been hurt or for convenience? I also see that a lot of people believe Jane to be perverted in some way.. I'm not sure where people get this from? Over and over its
JANE = perverted peeping tom
GEORGE = Gay
QUEEN ANNE = Jezebel
MARY = saint
For me it's not about thinking their accusations would make the people "bad" but the fact they just arent true. They even include several of the men around King Henry at the time. Including Brandon supposedly being unable to stay faithful- was this true?
I think fiction is very powerful but some fiction and myths have found their way into non-fiction history books too. It annoys me when some historians and authors just go with the same old myths when they have been proven not to be true.
Folks do not think of these people as the humans they actually were. It's easy to judge when you think of them as just figures in history. But it's hard to not have a level of empathy for men and women who were fallible just like us. In fact, it's easy for most people to judge, period. It makes it easier to compartmentalize and not think critically. It's easier to paint someone a certain way instead of examining them as individuals. No one is really just good or evil, guilty or innocent, etc.
@@pamelaboswell9715 I think I have the oppisite problem. I was so enamoured of the characters in the Tudors series that I tend to see them.as portrayed. I have been learning that of course not everything was historically accurate.
@@stompthedragon4010 Right, most of the people who do series, movies, books, etc, add their own artistic element, so you have to take it all with a grain of salt and remember, "This is not the *whole* story".
@@pamelaboswell9715 yes. I' d just be interested in seeing a video or documentary on that aspect of the Tudor reign. Ive seen movies on Elizabeth and Mary.
Tudor history is fascinating! Many thanks for this information.
Excellent video, thank you for such thoughtful clarification regarding Jane Boleyn
So Henry's rage was so great, his pride so damaged that he passed a law to net a woman (Jane Boleyn) who had a mental breakdown following the trial and execution of her husband and sister-in-law? It appears he himself is beyond the pale of mental stability after entrapping first Anne Boleyn and her brother, then facing the betrayal of Catherine Howard. He appears to be completely unhinged to go after Jane, who was so damaged mentally that she aided and abetted the next queen in her adultery. Her life must not have been much worth living after all that mess. Thank you for offering this great account for our mental stimulation!
He died horribly & that tickles me.
Poor Jane, she almost got an even worse rap then Anne Boleyn.
you made some great comments on jane's behalf , makes great sense . what a mess...........now i see jane boleyn in a different light . but her aiding the queen , to see culpepper was NOT smart , in doing so , she sealed her fate...too bad........ thank you , for the share
What could Jane Boleyn have made that was different? After Anne Boleyns trial, could she have just left the court? If court life was all she had been prepared for where would she have gone? If her comments had been deliberately been misconstrued would Henry have wanted to keep an eye on her? Could she have said no to Kathryn Howard? It proved dangerous to stay but had it been dangerous to leave.
I love this period of history. Your videos are fantastic. Thank-you.
This is completely off topic, but if you ever tour your books and come to Australia and do lectures, I'd love to hear you speak in person! Your videos are amazing!
You are unbearably coherent & compelling of belief! But one thing I would still like you to address. When the woman is already condemned to death for her treasonous activities against the king, & then executed for same, why make up further accusations against her out of whole cloth in reference to incidents of six years previously? Rather coals to Newcastle, isn't it? So what motivated the creation of the calumny to begin with? And you HAVE convinced me it is a calumny, after believing in the truth of the libel since my Tudorite childhood! Well done, m'lady! 👍
Thank you! I think it has been a case of people looking to rehabilitate Anne in a later period looking for a scapegoat, someone to blame for her downfall. George Wyatt, for example, in Elizabeth I's reign is not sympathetic to Jane but then he couldn't exactly blame Henry VIII for what happened because he was the present queen's father. Nobody blamed Jane for Anne and George at the time, but later historians seem to have latched onto her.
@@anneboleynfiles
Ah, currying favour with Elizabeth, eh? I've read that she never spoke of her mother or tried in any way to rehabilitate her memory, but in her own circuitous way was very kind to her Boleyn relations. 👑
Jane Boylene was married to Ann's brother, on one occasion Jane Boylene was accused of behaving in an inappropriate manner with a Courtier, she replied " if you want to see someone behaving in that way, look to the
Queen and her entertaining gentleman in her quarters" that led to the inquiry of Ann, and the execution.
That wasn't Jane, that was Elizabeth Browne, Lady Worcester, when she was accused by her brother of having an inappropriate flirtation.
That's not correct. That wasn't Jane Boleyn. Please see Ms. Ridgeway and her answer.
The Julia Fox book is great. Jane is fascinating, hope to see much more on her on your channel
🇦🇺🦘 viewed 7/03/2021 .. So, Jane Boleyn NEVER spoke against her husband, George, nor against George's sister, the Queen Anne Boleyn. Thank you Claire. 🔔🔔🔔👑👍
I’m thankful for this video & you have looked into this more. I found very interesting as lady Jane rochford (Boleyn) is an ancestor of mine a grt aunt many times as her brother Henry Parker is my direct ancestor. Jane has always been portrayed in a bad light & understanbly learning that this is my blood line hasn’t always been easy knowing so this is a welcomed video . Thanks Claire ❤️
Thank you so much for this evidence-based discussion on Jane Boleyn.
Many thanks for the clarification!! ;)
It makes more sense that George called Jane "that one woman", during his testamony, instead of his wife, if they had had marital unhappiness. Jane became a lady in waiting to Jane Seymour after her husband and sister in law were executed and I find that extremely odd.
Claire, I must have missed this video of yours as I was searching on YT for videos on Jane, and stumbled on yours, much to my delight. I have always found Jane to be a fascinating character. I agree with you; she's gotten a bad reputation, in my opinion. Imagine what it was like for her after George was executed. It must've been absolutely humiliating and surely she suffered financially, right? Also, any insight as to how she kept her position at court up until her demise along with Katherine Howard? I would have figured Henry (through Cromwell, perhaps) would have tossed her out when getting rid of all reminders of Anne.
Lastly, thank goodness Eustace sent all that correspondence to Charles; we know so much through those letters that we otherwise wouldn't know.
You can't help but be disgusted yet fascinated by Henry VIII; he had an uncanny ability to disgard people the very moment they weren't useful to him any longer. I often wonder if he ever looked back at his treatment of Catherine of Aragon, Thomas Wolsey, Thomas Moore, Anne Boleyn and Thomas Cromwell over the years, even on his deathbed. Given what an egomaniac and tyrant he was, I find it doubtful. It's actually diabolical how he could just toss wives and lifelong friendships without batting an eyelash. Wow...
I cant get enough of claire ridgeway and as I am a huge anne boleyn and tudor over all dynasty history. I get beyond excited to learn see or hear anything about it!
Oh, apologies, meant to include how very much I enjoy your information!
When the charges were brought against her, she was hysterical! It was not as if she was caught. It seems that everything was here say. In the end it was what Henry wanted that mattered, and would go to any extreme to get it, as he had done with Anne from the get go. Unfortunately for Anne, she couldn't get away from him no matter what she did.
I really love Tudor history i never knew a lot about jane boleyn but i feel this ladys name has been dragged through the mud and its time to put the truth out. Would love to have known more on George and Jane Boleyn xx
I don't believe Anne confided in Jane. They weren't close and Jane wasn't part of the inner circle and her marriage was not a success. Her not being part of the inner circle may have caused her some jealousy. George Cavendish, who had known Jane personally but had no love for the Boleyns, had no great opinion of her character. He asserted she had been reared
"Withouten bridle of honest measure,
Following my lust and filthy pleasure,
Without respect of any wifely truth,
Dreadless of God, from grace also exempt,
Viciously consuming the time of my youth."
Did you even listen to any of the points Claire made?
Thank goodness for Chapuys! What a goldmine of information his contemporaneous reports are!
Always a fan of your vids but have to say I love your blouse. Where did you get it?
I think it's a Primark one so cheap and cheerful! Thank you.
I felt that Henry changing that law was one of the most obvious signs of his... smallness. His need for absolute victory and revenge. I didn’t think I could be surprised by him anymore, but him having the law changed just so he could take that woman’s life did it.
Jane had way too much to lose to do such evil mischief - these people such as Jane had clear understanding of the consequences of even a whiff of foul play
Her involvement later over Catherine Howard’s indiscretions may well have been due to grief over the loss of her husband; Queen and quality of life - she lost the plot poor girl
Very interesting and informative. Enjoyed this video (whilst trying not to be distracted by my admiration of that pretty blouse).
I have read before your video about the main accusers that were said to be members of her household. I did not know though about Jane and it not being accurate that she gave evidence against them. That’s very interesting really... I’ll also have to pick up both books!
Jane made no such speech at her execution but there are other contemporary sources that she carried stories to the king and those about him, saying that her brother and his sister the queen were having an unnatural relationship. And perhaps she subscribed to Cromwells accusations to save her own head. "The evidence against Lord Rochford was said to have been laid solely by his wife of 12 years, Jane Parker; she is described by Henry Vllls 15th century biographer, Edward, Lord Herbert of Cherbury, as the particular instrument in the ruin of her husband and his sister. Cherbury based his account on the lost journal of Anthony Anthony, a witness at the trials of George and Anne Boleyn". Alison Weir; The Lady in The Tower.
I came to believe years ago that Jane wasnt guilty in the sense of accusing her husband and her sister in law/ Queen of incest. She was not made richer by Georges death, as a matter of fact she suffered financially... Obviously it was known that the allegations against Anne and her brother were false, and the sop that was provided to Jane was later service in the palace, and to another Queen, no less. (Was Jane in service to Anne of Cleves , also?) Jane, on the other hand, did not, as far as is known, swear his innocence to anyone, or, she was warned or had enough brains to realize what was happening and was frightened enough to keep silent on the matter. I consider it likely she DID try to speak on her husbands behalf, as she had written to him, and that was probably when she was silenced by threat... she was close to the Queen, and knew her husband, so would have been dangerous if she had spoken out, and probably framed for a crime also. I have always thought that some writers obviously dont think Henry the VIII was bad enough or dramatic enough, or villian enough on his own account that they must drag in all kinds of falsity for the sake of the story... which is ironic because everyone knows he was quite the monster in many ways. We excuse Henry on the basis of his times... the king ruled and needed an heir, but we are quick to judge Jane as a woman with a voice when most all women had none... and ALL major decisions were made by men, for women to accept, will or nil... Henry wanted Anne gone, and he was embarrassed by his already having annulled one wife, couldnt see using the same excuse, so she had to die, a death plot against the King and adulterous treason made a convenient reason, and if it had gone wrong he could blame the ones who put it all in play for his benefit, which of course didnt happen , they all had to play along or suffer...
Hello. Was there a painting portrait of Lady Rochford? Does Fox's book about her have a portrait? I saw so many portraits of 16th century ladies that are confusing and none says that was the face of Lady Rochford. Thanks.
No, there's no portrait of Jane that we know about, unfortunately.
Thank you mindy for this information, I realised I'd asked that question two minutes before Claire told us smeaton Was the only one to admit to adultery with the queen... Of course under the most terrible torture men would admit to most things, horrible...
I wonder if Jane helped so that the young queen could get pregnant as Henry was no longer likely to be able to produce another heir?
Jane was jealous because she thought George was being improper with Anne, so that is why she spied on him.😮
Thank you for this detailed information. I had always thought it was Lady Jane Boleyn who had betrayed Anne.
On another note: what's your cat's name? For the second time, I saw that beautiful black and white cat step off of the landing behind you.
We have two black and white ones and I can't remember which one decided to get in on this video. If the cat is mainly black (with white socks) then it's Ari (Ariadne) and if it's black and white more equally then it's Oreo. They're brother and sister.
@@anneboleynfiles LOL Thanks! It was Oreo. I'm so glad you have rescues animals, as so do I: five cats and two dogs!
Listening to this a second time, it seems to me that perhaps there had developed a particular enmity between HM Henry VIII and Lady Jane Rochford.
In her position, maybe I would have wanted to help poor Catherine find a little pleasure and happiness, while at the same time, secretly sticking it to an old bully, whom had my husband and sister in law sent to the block!
When the whole scene was laid bare, Henry would most likely have taken her actions as a deliberate attempt at revenge, and hence reacted like the spiteful old jade he had become.
🤔
Oh I like this introduction! Why don’t you use it anymore? And, thank you for this video. I am guilty of basing all of my knowledge and feelings towards Jane on juicy fiction (Phillipa Gregory) oh dear!
Hi Claire!
I have a question for you... Was the marriage between Thomas Boleyn and Lady Elizabeth Howard arraged or made out of love?
very interesting thanks
Fascinating info as ever and love the pussycat cameos on your videos!!!
Are are you books available in the States?
Yes, they are on Amazon, the Barnes and Noble website, Powells etc.
I agree with this. I have always thought that the accusations against Jane Lady Rochford were fabricated to blacken her character and make it easier to execute her later on. Medieval tradition made servants loyal to their masters people to be respected, so if Jane Lady R. aided Queen Katherine Howard to cuckold the King, she was obeying her mistress orders (as probably others also did). Her very forced execution sent a message to all courtiers and servants that nobody would ever be safe against the King's will. A lot of rules and customs were broken in order to execute Lady R., she had no protector, was of high rank and mentally ill. Perfect scapegoat and lesson for the Court.
I remember seeing the Tudors and I think George Boleyn was portrayed as being cruel to Jane, is this accurate?
No, there's no evidence that he was. See czcams.com/video/A-CGVk70WVM/video.html for more on their marriage. That video is part of a playlist on George.
I think that was artistic license just to give her motive as to why she turned against him in the series.
You are gradually changing my perspective on Jane. George said at the trial "On the basis of this one woman", suggesting he knew who the woman was, or he would have said "some woman" or "my wife". That makes sense. In The Six Wives, Jane supposedly tells Cromwell, "Her wedding night there was an azure cross against the moon." Do you know where they got that? I'm sure gossip was flying all through the court at that time. They tried to interject witchcraft into the nullification of the marriage. Would you happen to know who was spreading that around? Thank you.
This isn't a question about anne but, I would like to know where you film these videos. I love these videos bc I'm obsessed with the royals especially the Tudors. I hope to hear back.
Just in my home in Andalucia, Spain. I use my dining room at the moment as it's light and bright.
I think you make sense in saying that George would have said " my wife" rather then " one woman." It would have possibly helped his case if it were shown that his wife was speaking out of jealousy and spite. PGoing by the series I felt bad for Jane in her marriage to George which they portrayed as his being cruel and being involved with Mark.
This is undoubtedly a meticulously researched narration and text . After learning of your arguments I have changed my opinion of Jane Boleyn and actually sympathise with her . She was clearly suffering from a nervous breakdown at the time of her execution for whatever reasons. However, she was undoubtedly at fault for having helped Catherine Howard ' s escapades with Culpepper. But she doesn't at all seem to have been the villain which she has been made out to be in the trial of her sister - in - law and her so called paramours . If you don't mind , Clare, could you please look into one other aspect of Anne Boleyn being charged for high treason and her subsequent summary trial accompanied by false accusations ending in her losing her head ? And that aspect is that the whole drama which most unexpectedly unfolded in the Queen' last hundred or so days was the result of careful planning by international powers , especially the Emperor , Charles or even the Pope ? Catherine of Aragon was greatly loved all over Europe . In all these events could the Princess Mary have had knowledge of or her aquiesence in the events ? Anne Boleyn ' s enemies were many , both within and without the country and there isn't an iota of doubt about that including, I think , Thomas Cromwell himself . The witnesses brought against her were definitely pressurised and threatened or even bribed . But if that was so then for what end ? Who would benefit by Anne's death ? Of course the King who himself wanted to marry Jane Seymour. But , in that case he could have divorced her or put her in the Tower for the rest of her life with certain comforts . It wasn't necessary to kill her by concocting trumped up charges . It seems he had started hating her. But the part played by internal and external political powers should not be overlooked . Thanks so much for this eye opening video .
Jane Boleyn is a mystery to me. She was said to say and do foolish things regarding Anne and also Catherine Howard. How much is true we will never know. As far as Catherine, perhaps Jane was just a hopeless romantic in that case.
Seems she was a woman in a world ruled by men. She believed those saying she was helping them when she told them things, whether true or made up. They used her and abused her, as her "fits" after prolonged interrogations by Cromwell indicate. I think her "apology" could have been quite real. She had plenty of time for introspection, and while she might not gave been able to stand up and say what truly happened without upsetting the apple cart, she could at least apologize for her faults and errors which cost others their lives - almost more than for her "actions against the king".
I don't think her death was karma, I think she was once again victimized, this time by an insane man with extreme power, who felt he had a grudge against her.
She had been friends or at least quite close with several of Henry's wives, and was able to finagle her money from Lord Boleyn, and a return to court within a year of George's death.
Her apology was a work of fiction, we know that as it's not backed up by the eye-witness account and would have caused scandal, and she didn't do anything that did cost others their lives.
She was very lucky in that Cromwell took her pleas for help seriously and helped her. It must have been very hard for her to return to court after what had happened and to be so close to the king.
Absolutely agree Jane deserved better, to have been assisted and removed from court life after the killing of Anne and George, to have been put in a new, invulnérable situation. Too many see such historical personnages as just names, card board cut outs, forgetting humanity, that each reign exacerbated the complexity and insecurity of life
I think you are absolutely spot on when it comes to Jane Boleyn and thank you for this exoneration. The main accuser being the Countess of Worcester I think is pretty well evidenced and I wonder if she may not have been lent on by her brother in law Charles Brandon Duke of Suffolk, who certainly had no love for Anne. The Countess, I understand, was pregnant at the time of Anne's downfall and called the child Anne I believe, which maybe points to her being rather lent on to give the evidence she did and maybe having some regret.
Thank you for this video....ive never seen a portrait of Jane Boleyn but from all I've ever found out about her was that she seemed a miserable unwanted wife...married to George because she was from a wealthy family and then pretty much neglected. No children and not many friends....perhaps she was a bit of a gossip and bound to feel at least a bit of resentfulness against her husband s closeness to his sisters but think about this.....what was she to do with herself at court? Read or do needlework? Sounds like a very dull life wandering from room to room trying to fill a lot of empty hours....
The other boleyn girl while a good movie is so inaccurate! They had this scene btwn Anne and George but they dont go through with it but you're right. Anne and George were much too pious
Hi Claire, I've heard a theory that Lady Rochford may have been helping Katherine Howard for financial gain, that Katherine may have been paying her for her assistance in the secret meetings with Culpeper. It sounds perfectly plausible to me, I mean it makes perfect sense that Lady Rochford could gain more privileges and favour with Queen Katherine by aiding her. What are your thoughts?
I haven't found any evidence of payments to Jane which could be construed in this way. At the end of the day, it was Jane's job to do what the queen asked so perhaps Catherine put pressure on Jane. Julia Fox points out that the person that Jane could have gone to for help in this matter, Thomas Cromwell, was now dead, so she had nowhere to turn.
As there ate no records of her every testifying against her husband George or that the account of Jane Boleyn’s actually execution remarks this speculation is just that, speculative. If it was a Boleyn who brought George and Ann down I would say the one who had the most to gain from a revenge motivation it would be Mary. Their deaths certainly put an end to her being used as the ‘family cash cow’ for financial gain for both Thomas and George. It would have also put her in the King’s Good graces where her children futures were of her upmost concern. I find it rather telling that Thomas had to be order to increase the support allowance to Jane rather than voluntarily. I can also understand Jane getting revenge on the King for all the punishment of the Boleyn members through ‘aiding Queen Katherine Howard based on the privileged information of Henry’s bedroom failures from both her sister-in-laws first hand knowledge. The fact that her former mother-in-law was a Howard had to have been a weighty burden as they clearly displayed a lack of loyalty or responsibility and as a financial drain rather than contributor to the family’s continuing wealth. To have existed in a time where ‘pimping-out’ one’s daughters was considered respectable behavior is not a legacy to be admired, at least not in my opinion.
I think she helped Howard bc she was the Queen
Isn’t it also possible that Cromwell might have made some pieces of correspondence disappear that would have put Anne and anyone associated with her in a better light? It certainly would have served his own purposes well to do so.
You never know!
And, in what we can consider "truth"- Jane seemed to have attempted to help George(as you mention)
And Jane enjoyed no perks after the Boleyn downfall. She was absent from court for awhile
Until the Cleaves court,& famously- beyond
Ironically the more I hear about Jane Boleyn the more I am convinced that her character and actions are more complex than they appear regardless of viewing her with or without sympathy.
Claire, could you please explain the duties &! responsibilities of a Lady in Waiting”? (eg, was it a 24/7 “job”, did they get vacations?, did they have days off or vacations? Did they HAVE to accept the position if it was offered, or could one refuse the offer? were they given time to visit their family?)
Funnily enough, Teasel wants to do a video on this topic soon.
She was possibly jealous of the relationship of Anne and George and lied. She hated Anne.
I can tell yu why she helped Katherine and Culpepper. Jane was PISSED (upset and angry) that George was beheaded and that she was left destitute. It was her way of getting back at Henry. She was upset that she also lost Jane Seymore due to neglect. So by the time Katherine came around her involvement was a passive aggressive way to get back. That's why she did it. She saw what happened to Anne B. She knew what would happen if it got out. The only question is what could motivate her to risk so much. In my opinion, Jane R was pissed off, understandably. Also..I think she was blackmailed by Culper. Culpepper was a fiend. He raped a farmers wife and killed her husband. I believe Culpepper was blackmailing Katherine and Jane
I have always felt Jane was unfairly maligned. I think she was an unloved wife and member of a terrifyingly oppressive/ dangerous King and court. Weak to her supervisors ( young Catherine) , caught in a very untenable and unenviable place .My feeling is she was likely resentful and unlikable, but not the villain so many historic fiction writers delight in making of her.
Yes, she's been used as a villain for fiction and that's had a knock-on effect. The fact that Anne confided in her shows that the two women must have been close, so she must have been likeable.
I knew almost nothing about Jane before reading Philippa Gregory's Tudor books, but her portrayal of Jane immediately made me angry on Jane's behalf, & made me pretty sure she was nothing like that- one, NO-ONE'S a total villain; two, Philippa's novels are so innacurate I'd call them historical fantasy rather than fiction, & she goes for the most lurid plots possible. They're fun for "trash reading" but also piss me off, so I probably won't read any more.
Anne Boleyn was innocent of the crimes that they were accused Her . This was all about Henry the 8th Getting rid of his Queen
Any thoughts as to why these women of Anne's would have falsely testified, or testified to what at most was innuendo on Anne's part? I've always guessed that it may have been payback for Anne being "difficult" or just generally nasty & demeaning to her staff.
What inspired the incest charge? Please how was Jane Boleyn's marriage with George?
See czcams.com/video/A-CGVk70WVM/video.html for a video I did with my co-author Clare Cherry on Jane and George.
Regarding the incest charge, it was an excellent way if blackening the Boleyn name and getting rid of both of them.
One question I have is what Elizabeth Boleyn played in the fall of her daughter
I so agree. I've always had sympathy for Jane. Do you think she was a bit mad all along? I had a hard time believing that she brought down Anne or George. It would have hurt her badly, esp. as a woman. And, it did. I always thought what she did with Katherine Howard was simply bad judgement and the fear and reality caused her to finally snap completely when she was arrested.
This definitely puts Jane in a new light and makes you think what is true. In my last comment I did think that Jane was jealous but with the evidence produced in this video does make me think